debian vs arch linux vs ubuntu
which one should I get?
>>54570725
Arch is pure hobbist, so if that's your interest then Arch
Deb and Ubuntu depends on how much you want to fuck around with
>>54570725
I use Ubuntu and I like it. I haven't tried much else though, to be honest.
>>54570746
well I do reverse engineering and programming. that being said, alot of reverse engineering tools that are awesome(ida, ollydbg, etc)aren't available on linux.
i'm still trying to device if I should dual boot between windows(for gaming shit)and a linux distro, but first I'm trying to figure out what distro.
>>54570725
without knowing anything about you or your priorities, my suggestion is to do a netinstall of ubuntu and pick your packages. You don't need to deal with arch's shit to run xmonad and code in vim.
>>54570833
My priority is this:
>Create a good programming environment, one better than Windows; one that allows me to:
>>1: Develop quicker and easier
>>2: Reverse engineer just as effectively if not more effectively than Windows
But so far, both of them have failed.
I tried Debian and was extremely frustrated trying to get things to work, and I am pretty sure I just broke it. I'm going to just reinstall Debian now and try again.
I REALLY want to just stay on Windows after the shit I did with Debian, but I feel like I'm not giving it a fair enough chance, so I'll try again. Perhaps now that I know how to fix alot of the problems I had out of the box things will go more swimmingly.
I REALLY think I'll just be losing things by staying on Debian. As in, losing Ida, losing C#, etc.
So what do you think?
>>54570769
download the ISOs, make a liveusb, use the distros you wish to use, test what you have to test and then settle for what you like.
I'm currently using ubuntu-mate 15.10 and I recommend it. It's not a pain in the ass to setup stuff upon booting (on a liveusb), it's not as light as lubuntu/xubuntu, but it's light and ain't clunky (navigation with keyboard is easy enough) or overdone like KDE.
You'll have to scavenge your software a bit, can't help you with that.
>>54570725
Literally got Arch up and running a few hours ago. Pretty much no Linux experience, but it was pretty fun.
Apart from it not booting with systemd for no fucking reason, that is. Anyways, I went with Arch because it seemed interesting, and one of the big pros with Linux in general for me is the amount of control you have over you system, and Arch fits the bill. As for actual productivity, all I can do now is log in to bash.
>>54570725
Windows Vista
>>54570725
xubuntu
what does arch offer that debian doesnt?
>>54570725
Arch+KDE is absolutely based
>>54571485
What does debian offer that ubuntu doesn't?
>>54572376
for the most part, debian doesnt treat you like a retard
ubuntu is good for entry-level, and if you already use it there isnt much reason to change (generally), but if you're looking for a new distro, and you arent at mint-level competence, you should take debian over ubuntu.
>>54572474
>doesnt treat you like a retard
Why should people use debian when there is superior ubuntu?
archbuntian
>>54570725
Try them all and see.
What do you do really will determine what one is ideal though.
All Linux distros except arch are slow bloated trash. Arch is the perfect distribution. Although I barely use my arch partition desu. Just use Windows you stupid fag.
>>54570725
Not Ubuntu
>>54570769
debian is what you need. You'll learn alot more with a lot less handholding
>>54570725
Debian.
They're all the fucking same anyways. Add colors to your terminal though.
>>54572474
Ah ok.
Alot of screenshots I see of Arch Linux look fucking interesting and cool as fuck.
Like, pic related. Look at all that shit. It probably isn't practical at all, but it sure does look neat to use.
Can I make Debian look like that?
Actually - Can Debian do everything Arch Linux can do?
>>54572749
What does this mean?
Isn't Arch Linux just Debian only with shit already set up and put on it? I'm a bit new to this whole distro shit. Isn't that essentially what distros like Ubuntu are too? Isn't Debian just like the "mother" distro that all the others are derived from?
>>54573070
Yes, all Linux distros have almost the same capabilities
>>54573070
The big way most Linux distros differ is the package manager they come with an the installation process. Long story short though, if you just want to make one distro look like another, it's pretty easy. All the graphical stuff doesn't belong to one distro or another, it's just theming applications that the distro bundles.
Anyway, if you want my vote, go with Debian. Sane install process, better package manager, community isn't a bunch of 17-year-olds obsessed with ricing, godlike stability if you need it.
>>54572474
Doesn't matter. People (beginners especially) follow guides anyways and rarely if ever know what the fuck they're adjusting or not. They just follow the guide and as long as something works it works.
Have seen several VPN configurations and mail-servers in professional settings have generic names from the guides the retard was following and installing from. It's frightening because it basically means the guy has no idea what he is doing or whatever the input affect.
>>54573070
thats because people spend days configuring their desktops which is why they try to shove it down your throat.
>>54573186
I still have yet to find out about reversing capabilities on Debian.
Can I reverse just as well as I can on Windows? As in, are Debian/Linux's tools good enough for reversing? I don't want to give up reversing. It's my favorite hobby.
Also, I already broke Debian shit within a day. Does anyone here have some tips for me to not break shit next time? Other than don't be a retard and copy and paste shit into the terminal like I was?
>>54573070
Arch tries to keep it to the basics and let you do all the configuration yourself. It isn't "based" on Debian; all Arch software is sourced from the respective projects. Expect setting up and putting your own shit.
Debian is focused on stability. Debian software is also sourced from each project, and then goes through extensive testing and patching (unstable and testing stages) before making it into the "stable" stage.
Many Linux distros are based on Debian, pulling packages from different stages of the Debian chain, but not all. Arch itself, {open,}SUSE, Red Hat and Slackware aren't based on Debian; Slackware itself being the oldest independent distro still mantained.
>>54573231
You can, if you must, run a lot of (but not all) Windows software through Wine. Googling <yoursoftware> replacement for Linux will take you quite a bit of the rest of the way if that fails.
>Does anyone here have some tips for me to not break shit next time? Other than don't be a retard and copy and paste shit into the terminal like I was?
Do that, and a lot of it, in virtual environments. Have fun with it and learn from how it breaks. Also, use man for looking up what are you about to do.
>>54573325
I think alot of the things I broke had to do with me doing stupid shit with my video card drivers(fuck Nvidia). I was REALLY desperate because I had just booted into Debian for the first time and I not only had to fix something broken straight off the bat, but I also had to get used to the terminal, the new file system, and on top of that, I had to fix my wireless adapter drivers as well.
I guess it all worked out because now I know what to type into the fucking terminal to fix them now. And hey I also know how to do updating, getting, and using ls -s...
So I know the basic commands now. :#
>>54573376
Do take into account that Nvidia provides the least-shitty drivers. You have had a wonder of a time if you didn't have to suffer Radeon cards.
>>54573402
I HAD a Radeon before switching to Nvidia about a month ago. I do recall using Ubuntu with my Radeon and Kali with it just fine. On a side note, fuck Kali. Fucking skiddie distro. Does anyone here use that hunk of shit?
Also why does everyone always make jokes about Nvidia here?
>>54573070
>a simple lightweight distribution
>using 2.4GB RAM
lol
>>54573470
man speaking of which, while in Debian today I took a look and saw I was only having 10% of my 8gb of ram being used.
fucking awesome.
right now, shitdows 10 is taking up 30% of my ram, with absolutely nothing but Hexchat and Chrome open.
Debian with gnome 3. Stable and perty.
>>54570746
>Arch is pure hobbist, so if that's your interest then Arch
Eh. I mean it helps but I don't think you need to be a hobbyist to use the system.
>>54573186
Why use Debian over Ubuntu assuming you strip the given DE from each after install? Doesn't Ubuntu have a more sane release cycle.
>>54573483
I use 700Mb with all kinds of shit open. I may actually downgrade the ram on my craptop.
>>54573070
Arch is not based on Debian. It is its own branch.
The reason you keep hearing this is because most of the mainstream Linux distros are either RedHat or Debian based.
The most noticeable difference between them is their package manager. RedHat based distributions use the rpm system with is flexible and versatile, and Debian based distributions use the apt system which is as close as you can get to double-clicking to install something.
The most popular desktop RedHat based distro is Fedora. RedHat is usually out of the question for home users because it's subscription based. The most popular desktop Debian based distro is Ubuntu. A lot of people on this board are starting to favor Mint because of a few reasons I don't want to get into right now.
There's also slackware-based distros which I don't know much of. I just know OpenSUSE is part of it and it's made for developers.
Arch is its own, very new branch. It is a sizeable challenge to install for a beginner because it does not offer you to automatically partition your drive, it does not come with a display manager and a desktop environment. After installation, it's a command line. The main advantaghe with Arch is that it only comes with what you want, so it's lightweight.
What you're seeing in this screenshot is feasible in any Linux distribution. It's done in the desktop environment, which is another deal completely. Most Linux distributions come with GNOME, and most other desktop environments are forks of an old or recent version of GNOME. It's all pretty customizable. Since Arch doesn't come with a DE, you'd have to install onme before you even start customizing it. It's not very complicated, but I'm just telling you what it is.
>>54573671
Ah that's much clearer thanks.
>>54573376
You could always use the smxi scripts with Debian for video drivers. That's what I did years ago, until I learned to do it all manually.
>>54573671
>A lot of people on this board are starting to favor Mint because of a few reasons I don't want to get into right now.
Different anon here. Please go on. I was under the impression there was literally no reason to grab mint over ubuntu.
>>54571090
Debian is shit, it breaks just as much if not more often than Arch, if you want Debian based used a Ubuntu netinstall, if not Ubuntu try fedora which is RPM based
>>54573070
THAT
LOOKS
UGLY
>>54570725
Arch. If you don't want to setup from absolute scratch use Archbang or any other fork
>>54573720
To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure of all the reasons. One of them is that Ubuntu is bundled with the Amazon app, which is basically an indicator that they're making money with adware deals. At some point -- but that's in the past -- Ubuntu would route by default all your desktop searches through Amazon to give you Amazon results besides your local results, which pissed users off quite a bit. It's inching towards a kind of commercialism that's not comfortable for the open source community. I also hear their support is dropping in quality because they're working on a mobile OS.
Ubuntu also has its own trademark desktop environment, Unity, which is not ported on any other distro. Yet, at the same time, it's almost exactly like GNOME 3, except its default theme is purple and orange, the trademark Ubuntu flavor, which is ugly as shit. Starting from a fresh Ubuntu install, you always have to change the theme for everything if you want to be able to look at your screen. Mint is preloaded with Cinnamon which is a much more classic-like DE.
Other than that, I don't know the differences. I am not an expert in this field specifically, I mostly just want to help with the little I know.
>>54570725
Linux Mint
>>54573772
>One of them is that Ubuntu is bundled with the Amazon app
Yeah that's awful I agree. But I heard it went in the latest build? Or was going to. Also you could always uninstall it.
>Ubuntu also has its own trademark desktop environment, Unity, which is not ported on any other distro.
Yeah I know. I guess I should have considered that as a part of Ubuntu but I was throwing DEs out the window when comparing the distros. Assuming you scrap that, or use a buntu fork that doesn't have it, is mint still in any way better?
Fedora, runs smooth af
>>54573797
I don't know by experience so if any Mint user can talk about that, please do.
Like this guy: >>54573787
>>54573804
Fedora is about as good for new users as Ubuntu is imo.
>>54573797
Mint leaves a good taste in my mouth, never had any issues with it, works great with KDE
>>54573814
Definitely, and the fact its rhel I quite like, carries over well to enterprise
>>54573736
>Debian is shit, it breaks just as much if not more often than Arch
Debian doesn't just break.
People break it usually by trying to mix up repositories from the different versions.
>I installed stable but now I want to run testing or unstable without reinstalling
>switches the repositories to testing and or unstable and hits update
>maybe it works out maybe it doesn't
9/10 times when somebody's Debian install fucks up it's because they fucked up their sources.
I've run Debian stable for years and nothing ever breaks or gives me some surprise unless I break it.
>>54573858
Never having an issue with it isn't really a reason to use it over something else that never has issues either though. At least, I assume ubuntu has just as few issues as mint.
>>54573882
True, I use it just because back in the day I wasn't getting success with ubuntu to install but mint worked fine first time, stuck with it since, have been meaning to try the latest ubuntu release since it's looking rather nice
In terms of one being better over the other, i'd say the differences are negligible
>>54573906
Mmm, just trying to work out which to force upon my friend who I'm trying to convert to freedom. I use arch myself but feel like trying to get him to use that when he's already in an uncaring state isn't really a good idea. I'm leaning to *buntu though.
>>54570725
All of them are /goy/ tier OSes only meant to waste your time ultimately.
Personally OP, I've always gone with Ubuntu, or something Ubuntu related, just because it has so much support. Whether that be an Ubuntu flavor (kubuntu, lubuntu, xubuntu, etc.) or something based off of it like Mint. Everything but lubuntu has been easy to work with.
>>54573931
Start him with ubuntu, it's easier to get help and questions answered from quick searches due to their market share
>>54573944
What would you suggest m8
>>54573954
Windows 10 or FreeBSD
>>54574012
I agree, FreeBSD is great, runs so tight. You ever checked out HardenedBSD?
I had to cave & upgrade to Win10 on a separate HD, it's still the best for 2D/3D work, plus them adding bash is just icing on the cake
Is there any real benefit to running FreeBSD?
>>54573772
the funny thing is that linux's kernel has been being developed and updated by a group of PAID programmers who are making money off linux.
oh but no, linux is good because its free. its not influenced by da big bad greed.
>>54573878
>I've run Debian stable for years and nothing ever breaks or gives me some surprises unless I break it.
>Nothing ever breaks
>Unless I break it
wew lad
>>54573931
>convert to freedom
>"hey man - do you want to use an operating system that will probably alienate you from a good 75% of the applications you use? Do you want to only use freeware shit designed by hobbyists?"
>"no? what are you? stupid? lol windows fag leave my sight."
>>54574161
>>convert to freedom
It was tongue in cheek. Also top lel at your interpretation of free as in freedom being the ability to install anything in existence. It was an RMS joke, nigger.
>>54574116
Yes, it's stable small & secure
>>54571208
why do people suggest this? its not hard to install xfce on ubuntu
>>54572376
>>54573568
if debian does what you want, there's no reason to add an extra layer onto it, same deal as manjaro/arch, mint/ubuntu
>>54574206
There is though, Debian has a worse release cycle.
Not that Debian can't do what you want, but many desktop users may prefer being somewhat up to date.
>>54574185
I'm running Debian now and have been for awhile with no real issues. Is there any reason to switch over? I'm just curious, really. I've never tried anything related to BSD before.
The only thing keeping me from jumping from Windows is my proprietary software.
is Wine really good? I don't do any gaming.
>>54574213
debian makes all the packages anyway, except for the snappy/mir/unity/landscape stuff
>>54574214
I'd stick with Debian as your base and just run it as VMs until you need something extra bloat free to run
>>54574259
I need Windows for that sweet 2d/3d software, just install your foss on sd1 & windows on sd2 for a clean dual boot, wine sucks for anything graphically intensive i find
>>54573797
I moved over to Mint from Ubuntu when unity was released, Linux Mint has proprietary software pre-installed so about 97% of all the software that the user will ever need is tested and ready to go, with Ubuntu you have to install all each item and sometimes they do not work properly which can become a massive headache. Ubuntu's philosophy has shifted away from the end user and more toward a goal that may or may not be in the end users best interest, while Linux Mint's goal is to serve the end user.
>>54574259
No. Use KVM or something.
>>54574433
A lot of the more intense software doesn't run very well in VMs sadly
Sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and get a second hdd and dual boot to an install of windows
>>54574259
What proprietary software are you referring to?
>>54574469
Hardware pass-through?
>>54574503
True there is that, overlooked it as my hardware lacks support for it sadly
>>54574573
Buy new hardware senpai. Unless you're a neet.
>>54574589
I am planning on it, but I am actually enjoying the new windows10 slightly, it hurts me to say it
>>54574604
Quadro? Are you doing something worthwhile?
choose the one u want bro
>>54574617
3D product design / 2D image editing (catalog, billboard, etc) and film production, prototype image rendering, it's a solid workhorse I must say, sucks for gaming so it just made me more productive since I quit that altogether as a result
Got the pc as a work bonus couple years ago
>>54574648
Nice! Mind if I ask salary?
>>54574671
75k, underpaid since small business
Completely unrelated what I went to school for funny enough, it's always just been a hobby that I rolled over to doing instead
>>54574696
Pretty good senpai.
>>54574712
Thanks m8, get to 'telecommute' too, so it's not all bad. Now I am just working when I want currently, pretty chilled since I have minimized pretty much all expenses, just sit around and modeling and drinking coffee all day currently, living the dream kek
>>54573070
any distro with xfce and an icon pack + theme can look like this
>>54574755
Sounds like the dream. Age?
>>54574789
28 - I can't complain, working on some completely new products right now, when you can do what you love it doesn't even feel like work tbhfam
>>54574847
Great life senpai. Literally I admire you.
>>54574874
Thanks bro, I am a believer of if you can envision it you can make it reality, you just gotta believe it can be a reality.
Universe works in weird ways, and the internet has to be the greatest invention of mankind, the next 15 years are going to be crazy tech wise
Hey guys!
OP here - I just reinstalled Debian, and in about 5 minutes, I fixed EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM that I had earlier.
Earlier on, it took me fucking 5 hours, I shit you not, to fix all this shit.
Jesus I feel like an idiot now after doing this shit so quickly. And more elegantly at that.
Everything seems to be working fine right now, so I can finally start working on things.
I'd like to ask some questions:
1: Is there a way to easily customize XFCE? Make it look like this pic somewhat >>54573070
2: On that note, HOW do I customize XFCE?
3: (Really this should have been the first thing): What should I do now? What should I set up and install?
Thanks everyone! This has been a very interesting thread. Hope I get some answers!
>>54575026
>I just reinstalled Debian, and in about 5 minutes, I fixed EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM that I had earlier.
welcome to linux
>>54575026
>OP here - I just reinstalled Debian, and in about 5 minutes, I fixed EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM that I had earlier.
What were these and how did you figure out how to fix them? Is the answer to that all in the previous posts, if so don't bother answering.
>>54572926
So he said that tools that he needs are not available on Linux - for that problem you recommend Debian.
So Debian fags are just ignorant fags.
I installed Debian Standard live cd (no DE) and it was 400MB large but there was like absolutely nothing. How can it be so big? tinycorelinux is 16mb and that came with a WM.
>>54575130
>tinycorelinux is 16mb and that came with a WM.
lol no, considering you'd need xorg etc as well, no
>>54575080
Well, it was 3 things:
>1: NVidia graphics card drivers were broke, screen fuzzy as fuck, had to install new ones.
Did it by following this https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Version_352.79_.28via_jessie-backports.29
>2: Wireless Adapter was not working, only ethernet was
I forget exactly what I did for this one, but I installed the drivers correctly. First try. Instead of installing like 5 different things and getting it right on the 5th like I did before.e
>3: Razer Mouse too fast
I installed Xinput and set the properties for the deceleration and stuff.
Sooo yeah!
I'm in good shape!
Now I have to try to install Steam. Last time I tried Steam, it screamed at me that I was missing lib32.so.1 or something, and in my misguided attempts at 'fixing' it, I broke everything.
This time I will proceed with caution. Now I know Debian won't hold my hand like Windows.
>>54575087
I HOPE that I can get by without the tools on Windows. I HOPE that Ida and Windump and stuff work on Wine. I GENUINELY HOPE, because those things working determine if I stay on Debian or not.
>>54575137
steam needs some 32bit libraries or something
Check under the installation header here, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/steam
Obviously you will install it differently but the information may still be useful.
>>54570725
If you have to ask I think Ubuntu will be best for you.
>>54575154
Joyous return!
Here we go with this shit again...
Alright, I'll give the link a look.
>>54575154
https://www.archlinux.org/packages/?name=lib32-nvidia-libgl
This is possibly what I need.
Earlier today during this shitstorm, I found that I HAD lib32.so.1 somewhere else, and Steam wasn't finding it. I don't think I'll install shit just yet.
>>54570725
why people fail so bad?
>>54575136
I downloaded their 16mb iso and it loaded in my VM with FLWM working.
>>54575233
Yep.
I DO have lib32.so.1, so installing shit will fuck me up...
Soooo I guess I create a symlink? Is that how that works?
>>54575348
Actually,
>/usr/lib/x86_64
So it might not work, since it's the 64bit, not the 32bit. Fuck.
>>54574137
>the funny thing is that linux's kernel has been being developed and updated by a group of PAID programmers who are making money off linux.
>oh but no, linux is good because its free. its not influenced by da big bad greed.
It's free and it's open source. What else do you want?
>>54575026
>he fell for Debian meme
hahaha use either ubuntu or arch
>>54576537
Why though?
>>54570725
Debian testing. New packages, reasonable stability, easy AF to install, lots of packages.
>>54570725
install gentoo
>>54575278
where is this data from?
>>54570725
If you don't know the answer already get a pirated copy of windows 10. Is designed for you.
>>54573671
>RedHat is usually out of the question for home users because it's subscription based
That's just for support and trademarked logos, if you want to use Red Hat without their support just use CentOS
>>54574213
>Debian has a worse release cycle
You mean consistent right?
>>54575348
Use the debian wiki for enabling multi-arch
>>54570769
Try radare2
