Daily reminder that if the price is free, you are the product.
gentle reminder that if you need to be reminded, you're a tool.
>>54212752
That only applies to Gratis Proprietary software.
Free as in Freedom software does not make you the product.
Daily reminder that 4chan is free
>>54212792
Kek'd
>>54212790
why not?
what's preventing FSF software from making a profit on the collection of your information for marketing purposes?
just because two values are empirically coincidentally aligned right now doesn't mean they will be forever. conflating two ideologies is dangerous; you end up with shit like Ubuntu basically selling itself out to Amazon.
>>54212792
/g/ can never recover from this
>>54212792
and Hiroyuki Nishimura thanks you for your neet adbucks :)
>>54212792
I know :3
>>54212821
>what's preventing FSF software from making a profit on the collection of your information for marketing purposes?
How does the FSF collect your data to profit from?
>>54212821
The fact that i can delete any line of malicious code someone might try to add.
>>54212792
It's gratis, not free. Reddit is free.
>>54212821
>what's preventing FSF software from making a profit on the collection of your information for marketing purposes?
It is against their ideology and the sourcecode is freely available and allowed to be modified by anyone.
Therefore if such collection of information was found it would be found out by everyone AND anyone would be legally allowed to fork the project and remove those parts.
>>54212752
truth is
Windows 10 isn't free
deal with it /g/
>>54212936
I was talking about single payer healthcare. You couldn't pay me to use Windows.
>>54212752
Friendly and dutiful reminder that if you keep giving this guy your rent money the interest you pay on your credit card will literally be as much as a new gpu/month
>>54212878
to sell the data to advertisers. I'm not proposing some novel use of data here; literally the exact same shit that every other "gratis" product/service offers.
>>54212907
And what if deleting that line (or somehow interfering with tracking code) breaks operation with a remote server - as a trivial example, like when a site identifies that you're using ad blocking software and throws up an obnoxious splash screen begging you to let them feed you shit?
It may be possible to get around it, but then it would be only marginally more difficult to catch people doing *that* as well.
In principle, what is preventing local free/libre software from hooking into shitty advertising and snooping services by default? Given how incompetent most of the OSS community is (hey, how's lo/g/OS doing?), how likely do you think it is that anyone would go and remove that shitty code (or rewrite the code to get around the advertising)?
Firefox is open source and when Pocket integration was introduced I heard absolutely nothing about a Firefox fork removing it.
>>54212752
>Microsoft had a guaranteed user base
>they fucked it up and are ruining the desktop platform by trying to copy the free online business model of google
>send shills to /g/ to blame open source
all day, everyday, the same shit
>>54212916
see the firefox example in >>54212974
people complained about that pretty loudly and yet we still know of the shitty Pocket-integrated Firefox as the major project. even if there is a version of firefox that doesn't include it, the mind (and market)-share is still with the main project.
Is that berny sanders?
>>54212974
>to sell the data to advertisers. I'm not proposing some novel use of data here; literally the exact same shit that every other "gratis" product/service offers.
How and what are they collecting to sell?
>>54213013
I'm not saying that they are, and I was really clear about that at the outset. If you're not understanding me, just say so and I'll try to be clearer so we don't have to go back and forth like this.
I'm asking what would prevent free software from doing this in the future on an ideological level. Would software not still be free if it was available to everyone to modify and redistribute, but the main development branch had tracking and advertising code strewn throughout the codebase?
My argument, such that it is anything more than a question, is that there's nothing fundamentally keeping free/libre software separated from personal tracking. Given the empirically poor oversight of free software (see ShellShock, Heartbleed, etc...) it doesn't seem all that crazy that someone might develop and release free software that by default tracks everything you do and reports back to Google or something.
And given the downright meek response of the open source community after Firefox baked Pocket integration in, it looks like if you were so inclined and effectively leading an open source project, you could do just about whatever you want; who would stop you?
>>54213121
>I'm not saying that they are, and I was really clear about that at the outset. If you're not understanding me, just say so and I'll try to be clearer so we don't have to go back and forth like this.
You said
>what's preventing FSF software from making a profit on the collection of your information for marketing purposes?
I'm asking what exactly do you think they're collecting? I understand what you're saying perfectly. What you seem to be failing to understand is I'm asking you to explain what exactly it is you think they're collecting to sell? So answer the question...
What information exactly, do you think the FSF is collecting, that they would sell to advertisers?
>>54213173
How is this relevant at all? Whatever they are selling, you can't prevent them from doing so, is the point being made.
>>54213121
what the fuck does all of this have to do with the FSF? FSF doesn't own all the GPL'd software, FSF doesn't decide what devs or users do with their software, they just promote their ideology, expecting that people will like the idea and follow it/them
oh, and btw, you can go and use a fork of firefox if pocket bothers you. or just fork it yourself.
you can thank the FSF for that.
>>54213204
>How is this relevant at all? Whatever they are selling, you can't prevent them from doing so, is the point being made.
It's relevant because what exact information does the FSF possess on an individual that they could sell to advertisers?
The answer? None of any fucking worth. So his worries about what the FSF would do with what miniscule amounts of data they might have on people is pointless and unwarranted. It's a fucking stupid concern to be frank and a pointless discussion.
>>54213173
In the subsequent posts I have been very clear in asking what is keeping FSF ideologically on the side that opposes advertising and personal tracking. If you need specific examples of things that free software could track, I don't know where to begin or how many examples you would need for your autistic inability to see more abstract patterns to subside, but as one example, why not tracking your network traffic, monitoring what websites you're visiting, or even a rudimentary RAT.
Free (as in freedom) software makes its point on the principle of giving the user access and rights to the codebase. That's akin to the notion of democracy giving power to the people. My question is "what if the people that turn out to vote are in fact retarded?"
You're decidedly avoiding answering that question, and the only conclusion I can take from this is that you just don't want to admit a pretty embarrassing truth - that FSF doesn't guarantee any of the incidental benefits we talk about when we advocate free/libre software.
The distinction between free and restricted software is orthogonal to the question about whether software is selling you. You seem insistent on not addressing that fact.
>>54213227
>you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide
Why are you using Linux again? I'm sure you gravely miss your AAA shoot-em-up games.
This thread is fucking retarded and
>>54212821
>>54212974
>>54213121
>>54213204
>>54213254
>>54213258
you are a fucking idiot.
>>54213272
TLDR sorry fag
The only pussy here is you
Unlike me you haven't posted a single fact and are a mentally ill human wasteland
Since you are not intelligent enough to engage in a battle of wits and are delusional, I'm going to do you a favor
How would you like to pretend you're not a little pussy bitch?
Since you're so mentally ill you have this compulsion to delusionally pretend that you kicked anyones ass
I'll gladly allow you to attempt to hit me without legal consequences
Unless of course you're nothing but a little baby dick pussy faggot hiding in his moms basement
Who has never entered the real world in his pathetic life and never will
Oh what's that? That's exactly what you are?
And your life is inconceivably pathetic?
Sorry you're so butthurt about getting your ass kicked like the pathetic pussy you are
Maybe you should cry some more pussy
Please ask Santa for a pair of balls you little fairy
Sorry me not being a delusional pussy like you is so upsetting to your pathetic bitchmade ass kid
This is you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI#t=15
Please continue to waste your pathetic joke of a life failing at trying to troll me
Your pathetic life is the funniest thing I have seen on reddit, please keep dancing bitch
>>54213254
>You're decidedly avoiding answering that question
Says the guy who won't elaborate on what specifically he thinks the FSF is supposed to be collecting on people.
Explain to me how the FSF is tracking network traffic and monitoring website you're visiting, or implementing "rudimentary RATs"....
You fucking imbecile.
>>54213214
>oh, and btw, you can go and use a fork of firefox if pocket bothers you. or just fork it yourself.
Right, and I've been super clear now that nobody has, and everyone just updates Firefox, and despite all the bitching the shitty firefox that bakes Pocket in is the version of Firefox we all tolerate.
I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself (or how many ways I have to say it) that the principle of free software - as advocated and to some extent *defined* by the FSF - is fine, but only vaguely and not even intrinsically related to the idea that libre software doesn't track or objectify its users. it can, and there's nothing ideologically preventing libre software from doing it. and like i illustrated with the firefox example, clearly people aren't even motivated enough to do anything about it when they get monetized.
>>54213286
Please don't reproduce
I met many retarded people in my years on this site but you easily made it into the top 10 with this
You actually don't understand shit, so please let me give you this one advice, and please take it:
You are horribly stupid and it hurts, don't ever try to spread the shit you believe to know about anything ever again.
Now please try to think about the shit you're telling us here for at least 5 minutes and maybe you find the giant flaws in your logic all by yourself.
No one is here to give you private lessons. Maybe google "How is the GPL monetarised?".
If you still don't get it then, just kill yourself
>>54213286
>Unlike me you haven't posted a single fact and are a mentally ill human wasteland
What facts? You haven't posted a single fact about anything. You've pulled nothing but assumptions from your ass about scenarios that are verging on tin foil paranoia.
>>54213288
>wah this guy isn't following my irrelevant tangent
>>54213297
>Right, and I've been super clear now that nobody has
wtf? there are a shitload of firefox forks
>>54213298
lmao this is going in the copypasta folder
>>54213288
I gave examples of things they could do. I'm not saying the FSF *is* collecting; I'm asking what's preventing them from doing it. If you're not reading, or not understanding, I can't help you.
This is not happening now. I'm not alleging that. I'm asking what ideologically prevents libre software from doing this. What principle prevents it? You keep insisting that I prove that it's happening before you'll address this question, and I'm not sure I understand why.
>>54213286
Holy shit you're dumb.
>>54213328
>I'm asking what's preventing them from doing it.
Their whole fucking ethos and legal licensing makes it impossible for them to do it. Jesus fucking Christ, how fucking stupid are you?
>>54213313
How many users do they have cumulatively?
How many commits do they have over the last 30 days? Cumulatively or individually.
How does that compare to Firefox?
Is it safe for us to agree that most people using Firefox or a derivative of it are using a version that has Pocket integration?
>>54212948
It's not free if tax dollars pay for it, it's socialized. But I guess the idea is still somewhat valid, since the productivity of individuals is important to any governing bodies.
Anyway, try not to spread misinformation, okay?
>>54213286
Get raped and kill yourself, you retarded fucking faggot sack of shit with down syndrome.
>>54213258
>Linux
I just pause a moment. What are you talking like Linux, is in fact, GNU / Linux, or as I have recently taken to calling it, GNU + Linux. Linux is not an operating system itself, but rather another free component of a fully operational GNU system made useful by corelibs GNU shell utilities and vital system components including a complete operating system such as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but that's just part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates resources of the machine to the other programs you run. The core is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can function as part of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is actually GNU with Linux added, or GNU / Linux. All distributions called "Linux" are really distributions of GNU / Linux.
>>54213272
>This thread is fucking retarded
What this nigga said.
>>54212821
>what's preventing FSF software from making a profit on the collection of your information for marketing purposes?
The source is open so if you do that people will both complain about it and, if you refuse to listen, fork your software to remove the spyware.
>>54213341
Ethos is not strict. Ethos is just cultural. Culture changes. This is why the GPL licenses exist - to codify the values in legal terms.
What I'm asking is where in the GPL it says that you can't implement code that tracks use or behavior.
I feel like we're finally getting to a satisfying answer, so I appreciate you bearing with me, but I'd really appreciate it if you could avoid calling me stupid. I realize this seems like a stupid question, but my point is to address that we take for granted that these two ideas are distinct, and not actually requirements of one another.
>>54213347
Under a single-payer healthcare system that mandates everyone in the country be covered, what is stopping the government from forcing people to innoculate their children with a drug that causes them to grow into unthreatening androgynous he-she things?
>>54213346
>How many users do they have cumulatively?
>How many commits do they have over the last 30 days? Cumulatively or individually.
who the fuck cares? the software is there for people to use it. of course the ones who forked it don't have the money or the marketing reach that mozilla has, so they won't attract too many users.
the whole point of the GPL is that the users can get the source code and do whatever the fuck they want with it. that doesn't mean the users will magically get the knowledge and the resources to modify/compile/build the software, but that's not even the point of the GPL.
btw, this is not even the point of this thread. the FSF has nothing to do with the software itself.
>>54212821
>>54212974
>>54213121
>>54213254
>>54213286
>>54213328
>>54213397
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-v1TTUyhM
>>54213366
>The source is open so if you do that people will both complain about it and, if you refuse to listen, fork your software to remove the spyware.
Like they did with Firefox after Pocket got introduced?
What's the major/leading version of Firefox without Pocket? How many users are using it?
Or did 90% of users just go with it and accept that they were getting monetized?
fuck off back to /pol/, thanks
>>54213397
>What I'm asking is where in the GPL it says that you can't implement code that tracks use or behavior.
It doesn't. But because the fucking license allows the modification of the source code, it can be forked if such tracking was found. Jesus titty fucking Christ.
>>54213419
Whatever kid. Oh I'm sorry did I fucking trigger you? Were you fucking triggered you little cry baby? Fuck off.
Literally saying not a fucking word to you and you're gonna fucking mute me because you have a problem with me just fucking talking shit in all chat?
Honestly go fuck yourself to the highest fucking caliber you fucking asshole.
So sick of little fucking bitches like you who fucking have a fucking opinion like you're fucking sitting over there like, oh I'm some fucking problem to you because I'm not even fucking saying a fucking word to you. Fuck off.
Call it what you fucking asshole? Hormonal? Kid you're a fucking bullshitter. You're a fucking bullshitter. Go fuck yourself. You ain't fucking nothing. You ain't fucking anyone. You ain't got a fucking clue in your fucking head who I am or what I'm fucking about. That I'm fucking calling these fucking kids tryhards, has your fucking panties in a bunch for what? For what? For fucking what kid?
Honestly I'm fucking sick of kids like you. Literally go fuck yourself. Go fuck yourself and everything that you fucking stand for because I'm gonna tell you right now, you don't stand for shit kid. You don't stand for fucking shit. Please.
Yeah, talk in all chat. Yeah like anybody fucking cares kid go find a fucking friend to talk to, right? Because you can't fucking talk to me, you can't fucking treat me like a fucking person. You ain't fucking real kid. You ain't fucking real. You ain't got a fucking real fucking bone in your fucking body kid. So go fucking all chat, and make some fucking friends. Alright? You can make some fucking friends because "Oh, this guy's hormonal," pffft "Uh I'm gonna mute him," pffft fuck off. You're literally a fucking cancer on this fucking world kid. Never fucking forget it.
>>54213429
Life is politics, friend. In fact by making that statement you have taken a political stance and you also belong in /pol/.
>>54213441
Take your pasta and fuck off.
>>54213346
BTW, you should know that many distros DO use, or used to use, forks of firefox.
>>54213412
>who the fuck cares?
I do. This is exactly what I care about. I'm asking if there's an inherent aspect to Libre/free software that prevents the software from objectifying and selling the user out, and so far we've gone from
>no, it's impossible
and
>show me where it happens
to
>okay yes Firefox does it with Pocket but there are other projects that exist
My entire point was to get you (or someone) to acknowledge that free software is fundamentally a different circle from the circle that defines software that doesn't objectify and monetize its users. The Venn diagram may overlap substantially, but they're 2 different circles.
You and others here have gotten so angry about this that I'm beginning to think it's maddening you that someone's calling attention to this uncomfortable reality. It's not something I'm keen about either, but we need to have uncomfortable conversations acknowledging that we're fighting on two fronts here, and the Firefox/Pocket case is illustrative of that.
>>54213450
You're not a thinking, enlightened individual, you're just some punk kid. The only reason I bothered to share my opinion at all was because I thought you were the kind of person who would take the time to listen and think on it. I had respect for you. That's gone now. You're not a thinking, enlightened individual, you're just some punk kid. Way to go. There's literally a million of you in the world. Nice to know you have no respect for others dude. Have fun in the real world kid. Hopefully someday you'll prove me wrong and figure out what respect is. Until then you're just a punk. Grow up man.
>>54213485
Take your pasta and fuck off.
>>54213422
>Like they did with Firefox after Pocket got introduced?
Yep--- a/mozilla-release/browser/base/content/browser-places.js 2015-07-12 18:59:06.386767777 +0200
+++ b/mozilla-release/browser/base/content/browser-places.js 2015-07-12 18:59:19.938621549 +0200
@@ -1432,6 +1432,7 @@
updatePocketItemVisibility: function BUI_updatePocketItemVisibility(prefix) {
let hidden = !CustomizableUI.getPlacementOfWidget("pocket-button");
+ hidden = true; // Disable pocket
if (!hidden) {
let locale = Cc["@mozilla.org/chrome/chrome-registry;1"].
getService(Ci.nsIXULChromeRegistry).
>>54213520
I asked some questions after that one. Are you collecting statistics to answer those more substantively? I appreciate it.
>>54213538
I can't answer the rest. But I know that I forked firefox and disabled firefox.
If you did not do this, you have only yourself to blame.
>>54213671
>I forked firefox and disabled firefox.
disabled pocket god fucking damnit
>>54213298
>>54213300
>>54213330
>>54213349
>>54213419
It's pasta retards
>>54214020
Take your pasta and fuck off.
>>54213671
My bet is something like 90% of Firefox users are still using Firefox with Pocket integrated. The original point, that Free/libre software isn't inherently better than non-free software in this specific context. the freedom doesn't guarantee that the main branch won't force shit down your throat - it's just a constant threat that you may become responsible for your own stack if you choose to fork away from the Mozilla version.
And it's a pretty shitty threat, too; I'm not interested in keeping track of diffs to a codebase more than 13 million lines long just to see what i should merge into my own fork.
>>54212907
>i can
>but i wont since i dont know anything about programming and only use whatever makes me fit in on /g/ while parroting the same raasons
>>54214070
Well there's a good rule of thumb
Is the software written by a company with no obvious business model?
It's spyware
>>54214101
>Is the software written by a company
ftfy
>>54213408
the kids need parental authorization for medical treatment.
>>54214150
But if they don't submit to these things they'll get jailed for neglect. The laws are on the books and if Bernie wins and appoints another liberal supreme court justice more will be "interpreted".
>>54214043
Trolled hard
>>54214260
Take your pasta and fuck off.
>>54214043
Trolled hard
>>54214331
Take your pasta and fuck off.
>>54212792
>4chan sold to nondescript Nipponese company
>Poole goes to Jewgle, Master of Botnets
C O N S P I R A C Y
>>54212792
But I paid for 4chan gold pass :^)
>>54215714
kek
>>54212821
Yeah but free software products have a tendency to not be botnet.
Is Sanders the only candidate that cares about privacy?
http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-privacy-and-digital-rights/
>>54212792
It's a free service, so you're right if you're implying 4chan profits from its users. They do host ads.
They own the service and we use it willingly and we can stop anytime we want. It's not like we installed Windows 10 and we don't own our computers anymore.
>>54212821
>what's preventing FSF software from making a profit on the collection of your information for marketing purposes?
Maybe the fact that you don't give them any info in the first place? Don't be a moron, just stop posting.
>>54214746
>that pic
top kek
reminder that not everyone does it for the money or power, some people may think that money and power are means to an end, not an objective on themselves
>>54212821
>what's preventing FSF software from making a profit on the collection of your information for marketing purposes?
Because this violates their core tenant. FSF is a 501(c)(3) non profit, making money off such a move would be a fast way to lose their tax exempt status, and the ability for people to donate to them as a tax write off.
>>54212792
>free
Not in my country at least
>>54219794
honestly kinda cool, kudos to the developers
isn't that easy to bypass? not that you have to, 'donating' isn't awful
>>54212752
Daily reminder OP is a faggot.
>>54219832
>isn't that easy to bypass
You mean VPN ?
Nope, vpn is forbidden here, and it will only give you a free pass to bancity if you ever post on a vpn.
And I kinda wanted to give back and show my support to this shithole that kept me entertained for more than 8 years.
>>54219924
I'm with you on giving back, now I'm just into the technical...
what do you mean vpn is forbidden here? does your ISP not allow necessary protocols, and is it country-wide?
>>54219950
>Here's what happens if I ever try to post without the pass
and that's because, since last year, my whole country is blocked here on 4chan for God knows what reason. But I suspect some retards from my country ddos'ing the servers. And then the administration thought it would be wise to block the whole damned hellhole than just some IP ranges.
No one really cares here where I live, since it's "just" an anime craving bulletin board and being in english didn't help, or maybe just no one heard about 4chan.
>>54219950
My ISP didn't do nuffin, I can access anything and everything just fine from porn websites to piratebay, shady chans or even that-site-with-no-mother.
>>54219950
I forgot to add, that vpn is forbidden here. And by here I mean 4chan.
I'm voting for Bernie because he'll make Microsoft Office free for college students. Meanwhile Trump will be charging misinformed children to attend his fake university.
