Node.js
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
With more or less C-like performance and the ability to handle anything from web backend to desktop applications, Node.js is clearly the future of programming.
Node.js also has what is probably the largest and most innovative open-source community to date and it is even supported by the Linux Foundation: it is Torvalds approved.
Node.js has already made PHP obsolete, what is the next language it will conquer? Java?
Discuss Node.js.
>importing one-liners
lolnode
>>54087080
>With more or less C-like performance
Node.js is a framework, not a language. Languages don't have "performance", implementations of them do.
>Node.js is clearly the future of programming
But it's awful for CPU-bound tasks.
>>54087095
Same could be said for any library or framework ever.
Please learn more about software development before you open your mouth again.
>>54087103
>But it's awful for CPU-bound tasks.
I haven't seen any GPU-based computations using Node.js, but it is more or less only a limited amount of time until high performance javascript computing is a thing, why learn matlab when you already know JS?
>>54087103
>But it's awful for CPU-bound tasks.
This is such a meme.
Nowadays, everyone and their grandmother have so much CPU-power to spare so performance is basically a non-issue.
>>54087191
This is actually true, why buy and expensive CPU if you will be using only 5-10% of it by average?
I want value out of my money.
How often do you drive a car at only 10km/h when it is designed for speeds around 100km/h?
>>54087080
>With more or less C-like performance
Hahaha, what? Did you ever install anything using NPM? Ever run an application that uses Electron? Ever run a Node server?
It really has shit performance. And the tools around it are as awful as you'd expect from JS developers leaking into the desktop / devtool market.
The most "mature" tools feel like pre-alphas.
Get this fucking Starbucks webdev shit of my /g/. This is why we can't have nice things.
Well, it does one thing right: It gets rid of PHP.
Good fucking riddance.
>>54087410
>tfw Node makes /webdev/ great again
>>54087428
Surely not great. I mean, we're replacing a rotten zombie turd with one that is still brown and moist and attracts millions of flies who feat on it.
An improvement it is, though.
>>54087103
Its not a framework. Its a runtime. It has performance.
>>54087191
This is why we can't have good softwares or too few... It's easy to make awful softwares, look at almost everything in javascript or java or anything with a garbage collector at exec time,
and saying "muh everyone has shit ton of calcul power so I don't give a fuck". This mentality is cancerous and sadly this is what a lot of "developers" think.
>>54087497
>rotten zombie turd
Node.js is probably one of the biggest movements the programming world has ever seen.
Calling it "rotten zombie turd" is simply disrespectful.
If one day I have to do interviews for recruiting developers, I won't do the fizzbuzz shit but ask about
-how to sort an array in a processor efficient mode unlike quick sort or alteast to quote one
-how to minimize cache misses at L3 level
-bonus point for blocking the debugger work (only in C or assembly)
-how to scan a multi-dimensionnal array in the most efficient way
-how to make linked list or graph
Maybe some language-specific stuff
This is basic stuff every real dev should knows, if you don't bad news for you, you're a below average soft dev and you're probably doing shit in your current project.
>>54087609
Um, no. "rotten zombie turd" refers to the technology that is being replaced - the turd that Razzledazzle shat out over 20 years ago that the literal jews at Zend have - unsuccessfully - been trying to spice up ever since. PHP.
Node is still shit, though. The hot shit that all the people are eating up right now, but JS is JS - a crap language put together in a week. While that made it practically overqualified compared to the other turds in the unholy web trinity - HTML, the worst, most limited markup language ever and CSS, a style language that can only do layouts by abusing oversights in its own design (unless you position absolute all the things or use Flexbox or even Grid) and was invented for one purpose: To decouple the presentation from the content, so you wouldn't have to adjust your markup to make changes to the way the browser renders the content.
We all know it failed at this, at its only job, the thing it was made for.Unless all you're doing is "Make this element red and give it a border", you always need to change your markup.
And as if this wasn't enough, the only languages that ever got any traction on the server side, the one you actually have control over, are PHP and JS.
WHY? What is it about the web that makes people choose these awful languages? THIS is why nobody takes web developers seriously.
>>54087786
lol enjoy being a bitter contrarian spending the rest of your NEET life "ricing" your *NIX-system while I make $$$ writing JS and HTML.
>>54087772
-duh.. in memory merge sort for cache efficiency?!
-pad the data in cache lines to avoid false sharing
-wut
-SSE
>>54087772
You realize for 90% of developer jobs all that knowledge is completely irrelevant?
Most jobs are just code monkey bullshit.
>>54087786
Alot of companies and different businesses are running C# with ASP.NET which is a really solid MVC framework. The framework is designed with good structure and scalability in design. No unnecessary shit libraries, unless you really want to. Excellent performance due to compiled bytecode and CIL. Excellent documentation on MSDN.
But the best part is static-fucking-typing. Eliminates enormous amounts of shitty unnecessary bugs from inexperienced users/coworkers.
The only apparent downside with C# is the lack of portability, but hopefully that will change when ever .NET Core gains some traction in the linux-world.
>>54087890
>-duh.. in memory merge sort for cache efficiency?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Emde_Boas_tree
>-wut
what are DRM?
>>54087934
Yes I know, I want to recruit passionate persons, I don't give a shit about people just wanting to make a living of writing garbage software all day long.
If they don't even know or even heard of the underlying technology they use everyday I can't expect them to produce good work on a high level language.
>>54088003
t. Bill
>>54087080
> more or less C-like performance
kek
>>54088003
I know, I love ASP.net MVC, but it can't be considered mainstream. Most companies just go "hmm, if we want to develop web applications, we'd want to sell them to as many people as possible. What are all these people running on their servers? PHP 5.4? Some even 5.3? Well, this is our target! The great and mighty bean counters have decided!"
And then there's you as a developer trying to argue about static typing, developer productivity, security concerns in PHP and a technology that is currently pretty much Windows server only (for serious projects).
You can't win. They don't understand. I hate it.
>>54088085
Stay strong brother. Only together can we make a difference.
>>54088107
I don' think we can make one.They will never listen.
>>54088143
Come here anon. I know tf.
>>54088196
Thank you. I needed that.
Fuck PHP. Fuck Rasmus. Fuck JS. Fuck the bean counters...
>>54088204
Damn anon, didn't come here expecting to feel
>>54087080
JavaScript is a meme language for the internet.
Keep your shitty scripting language to yourself.
According to IEEE, it's half as popular as python, which tells you a lot about how shitty it is.
>With more or less C-like performance
This is total bullshit. Moore's law died this year, and that means that Assembly, C++, and C are all going to become more popular. JavaScript will be the first to get the boot.
>>54087103
>Languages don't have "performance
jscucks everyone
>>54087080
>With more or less C-like performance
definitely less
>>54089896
kek, Moore's law is about amount of transistors on a given surface, and doesn't take any new architectural achievements in mind as molecular computers or quantum et cetera.
>>54088250
>rare
>>54087223
Please stop using bong units. We are on an American website so you should really convert your numbers to something logical like miles per hour. It's what Moot and Hiroshima would have wanted
>>54089982
>architectural achievements in mind as molecular computers or quantum et cetera.
These things won't exist for decades JSfag, long after your Arch linux using, JSmemeing ass gets fired.
>>54087080
>Node.js has already made PHP obsolete, what is the next language it will conquer? Java?
C and ASM:
http://node-os.com/
>>54089996
Hiroshima also wanted a war, look what that got them.
>>54087410
This is why I'm coming back to web dev
I hated PHP
I am coming back for NodeJS
>>54089896
>According to IEEE, it's half as popular as python, which tells you a lot about how shitty it is.
It really doesn't
Are you trying to say python is bad or useless. Get past Calc I first then talk kiddo
>Moore's law
Typical idiot who thinks Moores law applies to everything and anything computer related. Why give your opinions when they are so blatantly wrong?
>>54090084
Python is fine. My point is that JS is only half as popular as python.
Moore's law is important because we can't afford to waste CPU cycles on interpreted scripting languages anymore. I never said, "Moores law applies to everything and anything computer related." You're straw manning me. Moore's law is about the number of transistors per integrated circuit.
>>54090143
>JS is only half as popular as python.
Is that a joke?
>>54090157
Go look on the IEEE website.
Python is #4, and JS is #8.
>>54090067
There's still rails.
And flask is getting more and more solid.
Man i cant wait for Personnal Home Page language to fucking die.
>>54087080
>>With more or less C-like performance
YOU WILL BE MY SANDWICH NOW!
>>54090143
But Moore's law is still irrelevant to performance when it comes to software development and selection of language.
There is still a lot of unoptimized C/C++ out in the open and in a lot of open source stuff, and a optimized JS version with lower time complexity will be faster. A lot of people now a days focus on "core performance" without realizing their algorithms are shit and have no clue what vectorization is. Someone should be teaching those kind people concating enough strings result in a rope long enough to hang yourself with.
>>54090333
>But Moore's law is still irrelevant to performance when it comes to software development and selection of language.
Totally false. How about you try running your JS on a 1 kilohertz processor from the mid 20th century for a day and let me know if it influences your software development and selection of language.
>There is still a lot of unoptimized C/C++ out in the open and in a lot of open source stuff, and a optimized JS version with lower time complexity will be faster.
This doesn't matter, because optimized C/C++ blows JS out of the water every single time. If you need speed, that is what you use, not JavaScript.
>A lot of people now a days focus on "core performance" without realizing their algorithms are shit and have no clue what vectorization is. Someone should be teaching those kind people concating enough strings result in a rope long enough to hang yourself with.
If you have an algorithm, and implement it in JS and C++, the C++ implementation will always be faster if it was implemented the same way. This is always true, and this is why you are completely full of shit.
I don't even understand why idiots like you try to argue this. Why the fuck do you think high performance computing is NEVER done with JavaScript, Python, or any other scripting languages. It's always done with C++, C, and Assembly, without exception. That is what you do when you need maximum performance, and that is why in a post Moore's Law world JavaScript is condemned to stay in the browser.
>>54087114
Exxxxcept the npm environment allowed for a massive breakdown in dependencies without checks and balances. Fucktard.
I hate callbacks, I hate the scoping, I hate everything about javascript
>>54087571
>This is why we can't have good softwares or too few... It's easy to make awful softwares, look at almost everything in javascript or java or anything with a garbage collector at exec time,
Garbage collectors are not what kill performance. Shit code kills performance.
>and saying "muh everyone has shit ton of calcul power so I don't give a fuck". This mentality is cancerous and sadly this is what a lot of "developers" think.
Agreed. This is why we have 3 GHz multicore processors, 16GB of RAM, and SSDs, and yet we still have to wait for shit to complete.
Code monkeys are why we can't have nice things.
>>54090487
>stuff about high performance computing kicks JS butt.
It sure does, if you know what you are doing and need the speed, the use C/C++ or whatever.
But the rest of the 99% of the applications and stuff, the difference between 100ms and 110ms is negligible.
I do hate JS, its a cancer of a language and its community is a tumour. Writing a random "household"-script in C might not be as preferable as writing it in JS. But you do have to realize I'm talking about general development and using the right tool for the right job.
Personally I never use JS, at all.
>>54087080
>more or less C-like performance
Hahahaha no
>>54087772
>This is basic stuff every real dev should knows,
Bullshit, it's only needed if youu want to squeeze every ounce of performance out of a system. And it's relevant only because of current architectures and languages.
>>54087080
Writing complex programs in a language that was designed to write one-liners WCGW
>>54087786
LOL are you me?
* I hate HTML as a markup language.
* I hate HTML+CSS as a page description language / presentation model.
* For a system that's supposed to separate content from presentation, thereby making presentation on all devices easier, it is incredibly difficult to get a web page to look right on all devices.
* There are things I like about JavaScript for quick, dirty, simple scripting, which is really all the initial web had. But it sucks as a real development language for large/complex projects. (If forced to choose though, I would likely pick js over php.)
* The entire convoluted mess is slow even on modern computers with CPUs capable of billions of instructions per second.
When can we replace the web?
>>54087772
>If one day I have to do interviews for recruiting developers, I won't do the fizzbuzz shit but ask about
>-how to sort an array in a processor efficient mode unlike quick sort or alteast to quote one
>-how to minimize cache misses at L3 level
>-bonus point for blocking the debugger work (only in C or assembly)
>-how to scan a multi-dimensionnal array in the most efficient way
>-how to make linked list or graph
>Maybe some language-specific stuff
>This is basic stuff every real dev should knows,
No it's not. It's of interest to developers working on OSes and core libraries, and also to developers who need to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of a system.
The vast majority of devs will never even have a chance to implement/test some of this knowledge, should they gain it, unless it's in their own work at home.
I don't see why any business would want to add any more expense to their applications. If you can't even convince them to move away from Indian freelancers how the hell are you going to convince them to not use PHP. And guess what both of those have in common, that's right, price. Not that both aren't without there problems, but technology is shaped by demand, and if businesses want cheap then Indian freelancers coding PHP it is. FFS they're still using I.E6.
Hell, if you really wanted to go all out you would create an OODBMS using C++ but guess what, no one is gonna want to fit that bill. Future of technology is whoever or what ever is the lowest bidder.
My guess, even if there was an end all programming language that could double your servers calculation speed and make your penis twice the size. No is going to implement it if it wasn't already the cheapest option.
>>54090785
Ruby on Rails + Haml
>>54087080
Node a shit. I've used node IRL and hate it with a passion. Go does everything node can and better.
I honestly think the only reason node exists is to give intellectually lazy "developers" the ability to not learn a new language.
>>54091399
Everything related to javascript and its shitty coffeeshop hipster devs needs to fucking die.
I really hope webassembly takes off.
>>54090879
Every time I touch Ruby I want to shoot someone. Getting it setup and configured is a nightmare.
>>54091620
What are you struggling with?
Rails is infinitely easier and faster than PHP, esp for security purposes.
is it possible to import a library js file to node like we do in front-end (or is there better strategy)?
>>54087080
http://www.haneycodes.net/npm-left-pad-have-we-forgotten-how-to-program/
>>54087080
>With more or less C-like performance
node itself is implemented in C++, javascript is only used as a wrapper to call functions on the node API
the only scripting language that has C-like speed is Julia. since Julia can be used for data mining it will be used more as a backend language that integrates machine learning as part of backend framework
>>54090606
>Garbage collectors are not what kill performance. Shit code kills performance.
True. Garbage collectors aren't the best on RAM (although you can configure them to collect aggressively) but they're fine for CPU usage.
