>america finally joins the 21st century and starts using integrated chip cards
>doesn't enable the main benefit, the PIN step of the transaction
how's it feel knowing the government doesn't actually care about your security?
What the fuck are you talking about. The pin step of the transaction is involved in every purchase i've made.
>>54044733
I have yet to observe or be required to use a PIN in any transaction yet. I didn't even have to set one up when I received my chip card. I just got it and started using it. You stick it in the machine, it beeps, and you walk away.
No more secure than the old striped cards.
I don't want pins to be enabled by default. I want people to make sporadic purchases.
>""""""security""""" using a plastic card where the government can track what you spent and where you spent it
lel
>>54044720
chips weren't implemented in America for that purpose, they were to reduce the harm caused by major retailers getting hacked like Home Depot and Target
>>54044720
>the government
this was enacted by the card companies, not the government.
>>54044756
I only use a debit card so maybe that makes me safer due to having to use my PIN?
>>54044756
In downunderland transactions less than $100 don't require pin.
>>54044720
>how's it feel knowing the government doesn't actually care
Pretty much the same as the rest of freedum feels.
>>54044720
I think what the faggot means to say is that PIN isn't required which means there are a bunch of faggots who don't have the PIN security.
In most countries if you didn't have a PIN on your card and you lost it or it was stolen then the company wouldn't be liable for any charges incurred before you cancelled it.
>>54044801
>I only use a debit card so maybe that makes me safer due to having to use my PIN?
more safe for each transaction but if you are ever defrauded you have less recourse to recover lost money
>>54044808
Only if you tap.
If you jam it in you still need PIN.
But then if you can just tap you won't be jamming it in.
>>54044814
How would charges even be made on the card without the pin?
In the states the customer is only liable for a maximum of $50 but if you're not a nigger and have credit with a reputable company like American Express, your liability is $0.
>>54044720
PIN is unnecessary in the States because you're not liable for fraudulent purchases anyway
In Europe there have been cases of people who got phished or skimmed being liable for the charges because "the purchaser knew your PIN, so either you bought all this stuff or you told someone your PIN. Either way it's your fault and we ain't paying for it"
if the pin were entered on the card itself instead of you entering it into random untrusted machines every day, it would make more sense. but since you constantly expose your pin to potential evil, it's not really more secure, and not having one at all is to your advantage in fraud investigations
>>54044850
This. Credit card companies know that it's far cheaper to let you 100% off the hook and then go after the thief than it is to try and hold you liable and face potential lawsuits, court costs, etc.
Cards are probably lower risk (no risk, that is) in America than pretty much anywhere else.
>>54044831
I've had better luck with my Credit Union in the past over most credit companies
AmEx is god tier though
>>54044907
plus the introduction of chip security has reduced their liability greatly because now massive home depot hackings won't matter since each transaction has a unique code that is not reusable
>>54044951
and any company who dares use the old magnetic stripe is liable for any losses
>>54044929
he's wrong anyway, your liability under the electronic funds transfer act is $50 max as long as you report the fraud within 2 days of discovery. With credit card fraud under the truth in lending act you have either 30 or 60 days (i forget, it's been years since I took a commercial paper course) to report it after discovery.
AmEx is the best though, extended warranties on all purchases, lost/stolen/damaged product coverage, and good rewards. It's my main card.
>>54044971
Yep, as long as they're not a gas station. They have until like 2018 to move to chip cards. Liability shifted for most retailers in October IIRC.
>>54044720
please safe me The Government
>>54044808
Many credit card issuers have yet to assign pins for their customers.
>>54045121
All cards here have pins, since 99 times out of a 100 the Credit Card itself is linked to debit/savings accounts via EFTPOS.
I don't care because I have zero liability for unauthorized charges on my credit card.
Who cares, I'm one of those faggots who uses his fingerprint with Apple Pay.
I still don't see why my debit cards are all using PINs but my credit cards are all still using signatures. Not to mention that there are places that STILL process debit cards as credit cards and make me pay the 2%.
>chip was invented in the 70s by a frenchfag
nice planet money episode on it recently
The pin is used every time except for credit cards. which use a signature confirmation like any other credit card has done for 70 years.
>>54046569
Yurop uses PINs for credit cards since forever. That's why they're confused.
>>54044720
It's not my governments responsibility to protect my money.
We aren't socialist failures.
>having yet another number to remember and type in all the time
TECHNOLOGY WAS SUPPOSED TO MAKE MY LIFE MORE CONVENIENT
>>54044720
I can't even count the number of times my bank card has been electronically hijacked at a terminal because it's never happened.
Chip and PIN is useless for online purchases - the feature would be unnecessary anyways because reputable services can be encrypted much better than the card's system could be.
>>54046296
I never understood the credit or debit option. It comes from the same fucking account.
>Not get cash at ATM and pay with cash
BOTNET
>>54046683
Is it really less convenient to memorize a 4 digit number to a card? You're saying it's more convenient to collect enough change to cover your purchase?
>>54048355
Credit: Goes through the credit card networks, requires signature, higher fee to merchant, more protection to you.
Debit: Goes through bank networks, requires PIN, less fee to merchant, less protection to you.
>>54047790
If you give the card details to a shady merchant even once, you're fucked. Same if the merchant is reputable but stores your card details in a database that is later hacked -- see Target and TJX. Same if you unknowingly scan your card at an ATM that has a skimmer installed.
Yuros apparently have card reader peripherals for their PCs for online transactions. The card itself has a builtin crypto chip that signs transactions with a key that never leaves the chip. Hackers can capture the details that are sent to the server or stored in a database all they want, but they can't drain my account with it unless my card signs the transaction.
>>54046600
Yes good goy, it's your government's responsibility to ensure that your money is out there right where we can grab it. Put literally everything needed to drain your account on that magstripe that can be easily dumped and cloned, and print all of it right on the card for good measure.
Oh yes, they require a signature... that should stop the thieves. Wait, you can draw a fucking house for the signature and it will accept it without question? Well fuck.
>>54048431
>Yuros apparently have card reader peripherals for their PCs for online transactions.
We do, at least in France. You insert your card in the reader, input your PIN, and input an 8 digit code generated from something like the transaction UID. Same goes for transferring money to other people.
I have two options for authenticating: either the card reader method, or with a secure, one-time SMS sent to your mobile phone.
I'm most often using the SMS method cause most of the time I can't be arsed enough to go find the reader and my credit card, but some operations can't be done without the reader (e.g. adding someone to your list of trusted money transfer recipients).
>>54044756
You fucking moron, that is your bank doing that
>>54048504
>I'm most often using the SMS method cause most of the time I can't be arsed enough to go find the reader and my credit card
Murikkkan here whose bank has not yet give a chip+PIN card. I have to go digging for my old magstripe card every time. No readers, no SMS method. Just enter my name and the numbers printed on the card.
>>54048542
Well, we still do have to input valid card info (card number, holder name, expiry date and CVV number) before we're prompted for the second step of the authentication process involving the reader, but I know my card info by heart.
>>54044756
>No more secure than the old striped cards.
It is though. Given just your name, card number and other crap printed on the card, someone can produce a magstripe that will let them drain your account. However, the chip cards have a crypto key in them that never leaves the chip. Whenever you use it, the server sends the card a challenge, which it signs using its key. The server checks it against the other half of the key, which it has, and accepts or rejects the transaction.
Now instead of the info printed on your card, someone needs the physical, difficult-to-impossible to clone chip inside your card.
>>54048572
Yeah. Along with anyone who snaps a picture of it, or who has planted a skimmer in an ATM I use, or who I hand it to at a restaurant to pay a bill.
>>54044808
>>In downunderland transactions less than $100 don't require pin.
Holy shit, nice security amerifats.
>>54048431
>Yuros apparently have card reader peripherals
This is not used anymore alone.
People would leave card in reader and then hackers only needed PIN which was easily obtained with keyloger.
>>54048589
That kind of shit was rampant before they implemented two step authentication for online purchases (Visa/Mastercard call it 3D Secure IIRC).
Without your chip people can't buy shit on the net with your card info alone.
The reader I'm talking about is completely standalone — you don't plug it in a computer.
>>54046578
No man, you need credit card PIN only for withdrawal of cash using ATM but for any other transaction PIN is not needed.
>>54048626
In Yurop, PIN's required for all transactions but highway tolls and parking lot fees, and contactless payment.
>>54048644
No man, I have mastercard and american express and pin is not required.
pin is only required with debit cards like maestro and even with those not in all places.
we already know our government doesnt care about us. we are a banana republic with retarded rhetoric about muh freedoms despite we can't legally have a fucking plant.
>>54048504
does this make people shop online less and promote local businesses since this is kind of a hassle.
>>54048682
Not really since most people use the SMS method and have their smartphones handy.
>>54048355
credit is money that isnt yours. debit is money that is yours.
>>54044720
>integrated chip cards
Every euro chip card still has magstripe so scammers are just skimming magstripe and don't even bother with chip part of card.
>>54048355
>credit card
Money is pulled from your account at the end of the month for example
>debit card
Money is pulled from your account instantly
>all this murricans ITT opposing chip on their cards
>one dude even complained that a 4 digit number is hard to remember
Lol murrifats. Enjoy your card fraud.
>>54048809
>not using exclusively credit cards for that 3~5% cash back
what the fuck are you doing?
>inb4 m-muh debt!
set it up so it withdraws out of your bank account every month moron
>>54044779
>security = privacy
retard
>>54048504
Isn't this a Meastro or something only thing?
>>54048949
This was used for accessing your account online.
These days mostly replaced by the same thing in form of smartphone app.
>>54044838
those are two different technologies, one of which isn't mainstream on a card anymore, only used with phones.
>>54048622
Amazon, for example, requires neither the CVC nor 3D-Secure. With credit cards, it doesn't matter so much- you can affirm that you didn't make the transactions and it becomes the card issuer's problem (and Amazon's in turn).
With debit cards, though, it's more of an issue. You can still claim back the money in most cases, but it will take a long time (nobody cares since it's your money and not the bank's) and the cash is unavailable to you in the meantime.
I've therefore stopped using my debit card anywhere I don't absolutely have to, and started putting everything on a credit card.
>>54048809
Encryption.
Your move.
>>54046683
it's the same number you type in at the ATM to withdraw money you dingus
>>54046683
Just make your PIN 1234 and you have the same amount of security as before.
chip and pin, but you can still use the card online just like regular cards MAGIC :D
>>54048431
The signature is pointless because your card already has been charged
>>54048691
That is only if you spend without care and how you treat the card.
