*BSD General Thread
Discuss FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonFlyBSD... UbuntuBSD?
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Are you a Linux user wondering about why someone might choose BSD?
Give this a read: https://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01
Ask questions, get answers!
Nobody reply.
Maybe he'll go away.
Hey how's this contrarian shit working out for you?
Favourite part
>Are you a linux user wondering why BSD is so superior (no)
because all the windows and mac people have already long stopped talking to you right haha
UbuntuBSD isn't BSD because it is ubuntu and mainstream, only post obscure BSDs please
>>53628381
fuck you. bsd is da bomb.
>>53628331
It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming close on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
>>53628331
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a cockeyed miracle could save *BSD from its fate at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
>>53631577
>>53631590
>BSD
>Dying
But what about OS X :^)
>>53628331
oh hey, someone else made a thread! ditch the over-yonder.net link, it's dumb and old.
>>53629306
literally haven't installed/configured xorg in 3 years.
>>53631577
it's not raw market share, you forget how much Unix/BSD software is in everything, including GNU. Windows TCP/IP, Mac firewall, everyone's SSH, these are pretty big features.
so even if everyone quits BSD (they won't) it will have had a fundamental impact on modern networking.
>>53631577
>he thinks he's not running a BSD TCP/IP stack.
>>53631590
Yeah, thank god their license makes certain that any corporations interested in the system will never contribute their changes.
>>53631871
We get it, you disagree with the license. Making the same post in every BSD related thread you see isn't going to change shit, please just shut the fuck up.
>>53631871
Which perfectly explains why they do?
>>53631871
Okay Stallman, Apple doesn't use iptables for 2 reasons.
>>53628331
Running OpenBSD router + Tor relay, love the OS.
>>53631628
>>53631701
>>53631817
>>53631871
http://everything2.com/title/BSD+is+dying
>>53628331
>UbuntuBSD
FreeBSD fork, not like PC-BSD/GhostBSD but just fork.
>>53628331
>UbuntuBSD
you now remember Gentoo/FreeBSD
R.I.P. In Pieces
Greetings /g/ents,
I know you are all very busy disputing licenses and shit but maybe someone here has some time to discuss an actual serious BSD related topic.
The root of many evils lies obviously in the graphical applications of a system. So I was wondering for quite some time if it would be possible to run a jailed X session.
Jails brought us a new layer of security but X is mostly running naked. And if we want it to run in a jail we have to break the walls that keep us so safe by allowing it direct access to the video hardware. So with applications using kernel memory i don't feel safe at all. Last time i checked we could bypass this security problem by rewriting the opensource video drivers, which would lead us into an even complexer clusterfuck.
So here we are now. Any ideas?
> Link to a 'shady russian' implementation of our current jailed X situation
https://www.bsdstore.ru/en/about.html
>>53635372
Doesn't Xenocara run in privsep?
Not exactly a jail, but it's close enough.
>>53635394
Everything in OpenBSD is run with as few privileges as possible. With pledge there's even more limits added.
>>53635394
No idea. Even if it does, it would be OpenBSD only (?) and privsep doesn't change the fact that for using graphics driver you have to allow them access to kernel memory, no matter what privileges.
>>53635501
Yeah but unfortunately I think that's a limitation of X's design.
It's some of the most archaic, insecure design.
>>53635372
>Any ideas?
use OpenBSD, where X isn't allowed to run wild.
>>53635521
Nothing is more frustrating than to realize you can't create a graphical application on a secured system
>>53635542
very vague description and as >>53635521
said, we can't break the underlying principle of X
ITT we post our BSD VM setups
>>53635588
are you a freebsd dev?
>>53635595
no, but i'm friends with some freebsd devs
>mfw using Nvidia graphics card and OpenBSD
You're never rusing me again, Nvidia.
>>53635588
>has only three BSDs
Actually curious, if you know multiple, what causes you not to use Dragonfly? I only use two BSDs, myself.
>>53635595
>read this post
>get the humor
(y)
>>53635372
I agree with you, current TTM/DRM architecture isn't good thing for security but don't think you need Jail:
1)Run/build xorg-server with unprivileged user
2)Check your DRI permission should be dri/video https://reviews.freebsd.org/D1260 xorg-server should be in video group.
3)Run server without TCP https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2016-March/084267.html
4)Use MAC/Capsicum for security
>>53635860
> based anon
1) unprivileged user for running xorg only means that user can start it but xorg itself uses kernel modules aka privileged access to kernel modules.
2) same as 1
3) no network access to the application but still not unreachable
4) Sandbox ~ jail.
> tl;dr
hardened xorg within a jail or sandbox is harder to reach but still a security risk.
Good reply though
>>53635990
>hardened xorg within a jail or sandbox is harder to reach but still a security risk.
Yeap: Unfixable by design.©
Anyway MAC make it really much secure:
https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/mac.html
But almost "hardcore" way use bhyve with xorg forwarding.
>>53636617
fuck apple
>>53636672
Do you mean Intel?
Modern graphic stack almost fully made by him.
>>53>>53628331
Bumpity bum por
>>53636617
Yeah, it's why Wayland exists, to fix year old issues.
The truth is, X was designed in a time similar to the time Sendmail was designed.
It was a much simpler time where no one cared about security.
Wonder how the BSD work for Wayland is progressing, if there's anything being done at all.
I know Dragonfly has a port.
>>53636617
> But almost "hardcore" way use bhyve with xorg forwarding.
The delay between mouse clicks - rendering - passing the image through is probably too high for the everyday usage of graphical applications, isn't it?
>>53636902
https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics
https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-ports-graphics/tree/wayland
There is no Weston due no libinput.
https://github.com/jiixyj/libinput
But don't think it's really "answer" literally just linux specific X12 with the same problems and without many feature.
>>53636976
Sure it, classical problem security vs speed.
>>53631577
>>53631590
>market share
Why aren't you running Windows, you fucking faggot?
Is BSD light on resources and if so what distro? I need something that doesnt run like complete shit on my chinkpad x100e
>>53637459
It's +15 year old pasta.
I surprised people actually still use it.
>>53637476
OpenBSD's perfect for IBM/Lenovo thinkpads, as that's what most devs seem to run.
It'll work especially well on the old ones.
>>53637476
There is no BSD distro it's separate operating systems.
You could try FreeBSD due it work nice with old hardware.
>>53637427
> same old song
>>53637577
second that. Running freebsd myself on server, desktop & thinkpad. Worst case u need to load a kernel module for your wlan device. if you decide to run a custom kernel, just compile the wlan module into the kernel and you are good to go
https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/kernelconfig.html
>>53635372
Or you could use qubes os and get something faster, more secure and with better hw support.
>>53638581
thanks but Xen runs on BSD as well
https://vez.mrsk.me/freebsd-defaults.txt
Comments? No I'm not the author you dips, just wondering if you will take notice and stop using a shitty OS
I'm not much of a *nix guy, preferring good old bloated corporate spying operating systems with fancy GUIs for general usage, but I've been curious about trying out BSDs and so I was wondering:
Why did PC-BSD effectively kill off PBIs? The one thing I always looked for in Linuxes was a good way to avoid dependency hell (at least when it doesn't concern different kernel version dependencies, which I guess is unavoidable) and a Mac-style app system seems to be a great solution. I mean, if they were worried about the size of the PBI packages, libraries of the same versions could've been shared somehow, either way shouldn't have been too hard to give devs some different options.
>>53638721
>needing to avoid dependency hell
>Linux
You're fucking retarded 2bfh
>>53638746
Please elaborate.
>>53628331
Does BSD have KDE? Is there any GNU/BSD distro with a GUI installer?
I just want full KDE experience
>>53638764
Learn what dependency hell means first, reddit, and you won't need to ask why you're retarded
>>53639096
FreeBSD probably, OpenBSD definitely, I've never even thought of using it though. OpenBSD doesn't have a GUI installer but the installer it does have is very straightforward.
>>53638607
no. you're wrong.
>>53639096
PC-BSD is what you`re looking for
>>53635372
>>53635394
>>53635491
>>53635501
OBSD programs often start as root and switch to an unprivileged user.
>>53635570
Xenocara is not X. It's developed in tandem with X but the key difference is that Xenocara is subject to a constant rolling security audit. http://xenocara.org/
>>53639589
The partitioning tool can be somewhat intimidating for a first-timer.
>>53637476
They are, at least their bases are. You can bloat the fuck out of them if you go crazy installing shit.
OpenBSD has the largest base, because it comes with Xenocara (it's less bloated, secured version of X). It's still quite small. For older hardware I'd highly recommend it. I've got it and Fluxbox running on an old Pentium 4, and it's easy to forget how old and limited the hardware is, that's how well it runs.
>>53639096
KDE along with Xfce are what people usually recommend for OpenBSD. I can personally vouch for Xfce, although I prefer Fluxbox to it now. Gnome is generally not recommended, but I've never tried it to see for myself because it's shit no matter where you put it-garbage in, garbage out.
Keep in mind the BSDs are very conservative about updating shit. You can have the latest version of anything if you are willing to build it yourself, but packages and ports may, and usually will be somewhat out of date. FreeBSD is more liberal than Open and Net, but it's still more conservative than you are probably used to dealing with in Linux.
>>53639589
You don't get much simpler installations than OpenBSD. The partitioning is the only part that isn't immediately intuitive, but that's only if you do it manually.
>>53635372
>So I was wondering for quite some time if it would be possible to run a jailed X session.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcfmRnxHRKY
>>53635394
>Xenocara
iirc xenocara runs with even less priveliges than a regular user.
