Has college taken the passion out of Computer Science for you yet?
>>53562686
not really Lain. Then again I'm not doing a computer science course. It's just one of the subjects.
Has dealing with a team of neckbeards ruined the passion of developing services for you yet?
>>53562686
yes, CE killed my will to do anything productive on the computer and makes me wanna kill myself
>>53562686
no
they can keep trying
no but Unity has
>>53562758
THIS
>>53562686
Nah, the real job will handle that.
AGILE/Scrum does it quite effectively.
>>53562855
this
>>53562686
Yes. I signed a job offer in October and have been coasting ever since. I hate everything right now: I just want to be gone.
>>53562686
You can't kill a passion. You just never really had it to begin with.
Feels like someone is always creating threads like this because he knows how I feel...
fuck off...
>>53562686
Mathematical logic is slowly doing it.
semester 1: java
semester 2: C++
yes.
>>53562686
No. Life did that.
I wish to fuck I could have been a part of a successful 90's startup (came close), or created enough shareware to be independent (was doing it until my dad died).
The typical corporate bullshit grind with pointy haired managers and poo in loos is enough to make me wish I had done anything else with my life.
>>53562686
I dropped it. Passion still left intact.
>>53562686
Almost.
I never had passion for it. I'm just here for the money.
"We don't have to worry about how new progams are consuming a bigger ammount of RAM nowadays anon that was an old concern with dated PCs, current desktops are able to handle it! so just finish what I told you to do okay?"
>>53563636
>he swaps ints with xor
>>53563613
There's hellish competition for the high paying spots. Without passion, you're never going to be better than those of us with it. You'll never be able to create the things we can. All you'll ever be able to do is follow rote patterns like an Indian, which means that all you'll ever make is an Indian's 40k a year salary.
>>53563647
>programming a RAM hogger
>b-but new compilers
bullshit
It has amplified it. So many incredibly interesting new areas to study and research!
>>53562686
hasn't yet
and my internship in programming and scripting didn't kill it either because I had complete freedom over my project
but applying at jobs this year, I'm losing faith
no one wants a guy to work a little on this a little on that for some new technologies and experiment with shit
they all want some SAP or C# or Java coder to write extremely abstracted libraries for accounting software or webpages
makes me realize that all my dreams and bright future I saw in my last few years is pretty much dead
I'm gonna end up a code monkey for the next 5 years
not yet
i've had no pajeet lecturers/profs for cse yet so maybe I'm lucky
>>53562686
Yes
fuck java
>>53563712
I'm not a Pajeet. I don't need to have passion to be successful.
>>53563636
http://cr.yp.to/talks/2015.04.16/slides-djb-20150416-a4.pdf
It's true. Look through the slides at that link; they're from a very interesting presentation called "The death of optimizing compilers".
In software engineering, we have "hot zones" and "cold zones". Cold zones are parts of the code that are basically free: the program spends so little time and memory in them that you don't need to care about performance. You can be computationally inefficient in a cold zone at no penalty, which means that if you're expending creative resources optomizing those parts of the code, you're throwing good money after bad. Don't do that.
Hot zones are the part of the code that consumes the memory and CPU cycles. These are where you do need to spend some time making things optimal. Performance still matters somewhere: users still wait for computers to do things. What's very interesting is that as time has gone on, the hot zones have become extremely localized: in the 80s, most of your code was hot. In the 90s, a lot of it was.
Today, almost none is: the heat (computational cost) is laser focused on a tiny handful of tasks. These things are where you get your top engineers involved making them perfect, and everything else is where you can afford to cut performance for the sake of better readability, better architecture, and better scope constraint.
The things that make developing software expensive are things that the machine usually isn't even aware of. Ignoring those concerns to better serve the machine's efficiency, when the machine's efficiency is irrelevant anyway, is bad business and just stupid.
>>53563819
>I'm not a Pajeet
Without passion, yes you are. Passion is what makes great engineers great. Software engineering is the purest engineering field there is. It's pure imagination without the logistical limits that other fields have. Being a software developer means being a fountain of creativity: learning how to properly use the tools is meaningless if you can't imagine how to use them in interesting ways. Great engineers, of any discipline, are people who come up with ideas while chopping vegetables, while stuck in traffic, or while they're in the shower. They're capable of creating great things because they can imagine great things and know how to make their visions real.
You could take a hundred art classes, learn how to paint and sculpt and carve and weld and a dozen other ways to make art, but if you don't care about art then you aren't going to make good art. Software is exactly the same: if you don't care about what you're doing, you will never be capable of doing it well.
>>53563965
lol who the fuck cares about "making something great"
I studied this field and got this job for one reason: money.
it's just a job
>>53563965
I don't care about being whatever you call a "great engineer". I do what my boss assigns me to do and I make lots of money.
>>53564004
Not him but buddy, you're not going anywhere.
Not with that attitude.
>>53563965
desu that was hella gay senpai
>>53564004
Do you know what we do to no-talent fucks who are only capable of doing what they're told?
Pay them $20/hour. Enjoy renting a box for the rest of your life.
>>53564004
And that is precisely what makes you a Pajeet.
>>53564043
Ok dude keep slaving away 80 hours a week at your shitty startup for the .01% chance of success. I'll be working at my comfy corporate job for a much higher pay and lower hours.
>mfw python
>>53564004
>>53563819
Enjoy your inevitable murder-suicide office rampage after ten years of soulless drone work.
I worked in a corporate slave pit for a little over a year because it was all there was in my shitty home town. Then, after legitimately contemplating suicide, I uprooted and moved to a tech hotspot to join a startup. I'm now making more than double my old salary and I look forward to work every day because it's so much fun.
>>53564150
I'll have enjoy to retire after 10 years.
Kek
>>53564159
Then what? you can grow old and die knowing you spent your career being a pajeet
>>53564196
>his life revolves around his "career"
LOL can you be anymore pathetic.
>>53562758
>>53562843
unity is the easiest software to use for anything, ever, you underage shitheads. fuck off
>>53564212
what does your life revolve around? retiring and getting a hernia?
>>53564004
>>53564132
2/10 lmao
It's certainly taken away any passion I had for machine learning. The rest of computer science is still rather fun though.
>>53564259
social justice and political activism
>>53564260
>I-I'm superior to those other people because I spent 80 hours a week at my job without being paid overtime! T-trust me!
>Java
Yes. I just want to develop software for embedded systems. Looks like I'll end up being a code monkey Pajeet.
>>53564132
>much higher pay and lower hours
>corporate job
HAHAHAHA
Yes, your five figure salary is SO MUCH BETTER than what all those bad goyim make! Why, just two more years and you'll be eligible to request a hearing for a possible raise and promotion! Just be sure to put in LOTS of billable hours, so we can charge $120/hour for your work and give you maybe $30.
Don't listen to their lies about 100k+ salaries and profit sharing. Don't listen to them lie about their beautiful surroundings, accommodating schedules, and endless perks! Being at the office 8-5 every day is much better! Don't listen to their lies about enjoying what they do instead of barely tolerating it! All work is exactly like retail or fast food, and everyone hates what they do! Don't waste any time thinking about if you weren't our slave! You will always be our slave! Keep focusing on buying new toys to distract you!
Once you have to do something as a job, you're almost guaranteed to lose any passion you had for it. The business doesn't care about doing nifty things or interesting things or new things, because none of that matters to them. They care that the payroll database keeps running, or that they have a version X + 1 of the software to sell, etc.
>>53564293
I don't know what the fuck you are talking about. I work at Google and get paid like 160k a year, get free bus rides, a free gym membership, 3 free meals a day, and show up at 11 half the time.
>>53564326
>I work at Google
>lol who the fuck cares about "making something great". I studied this field and got this job for one reason: money.
Yeah, okay. >>>/trash/
>>53564348
They pay a large amount of money. I don't see your point.
>>53564326
Do you do anything useful
>>53564141
python.. is.. enjoyably simple?
>>53564322
not if you do leleez web dev and systems in your free time
What the fuck I need to get off /g/
>>53564357
Unless he's the janitor, they wouldn't have hired him. Google's entire MO is hiring the best people in the world and keeping them for life. No one, anywhere, will pay you $160k to half assidly do what you're told.
Anyone saying yes to this question is a fucking pussy - regardless of their field. I remember being dissalussioned every semester. But I graduated and made. BTW I work in Journalism not tech and it's harder for us to make, by far.
>>53564392
>I need to get off /g/
I get that feeling sometimes too. It's all uni kids and manbabies.
I keep coming back because I like laughing at them. It's the same reason I go to /pol/.
>>53564407
Not everyone has to have passion to be good at something.
>>53564407
>hiring the best people in the world
http://chrishateswriting.com/post/140641275808/my-next-chapter
>>53564225
i didn't say it was hard
but if you'd like to take over our intern's shit code base of glued together javascript please come apply
>>53563112
>agile/scrum in academia
HahhahahahahahHahhh
>>53564443
I would say that's false. However, it doesn't matter, because the "keep them for life" is as big of a deal as the "hiring the best people". Google puts enormous emphasis on culture: toxic fuckers ruin an environment even when they're the minority. Google has so many secrets that they don't want ANYONE leaving, so to keep people happy they only hire people who contribute to the culture.
I did some contracting at their Boulder, CO office a while ago. Everyone, literally everyone, was a very cool, and very passionate about what they did. Not in the super enthusiastic way you see in a lot of startup bunnies, but you could tell they really cared about what they did and they wanted to do it right.
There's no way a corporate wage slave would be welcomed into a place like that.
>>53564132
what an unimaginative way to live your life...
do you have kids or something?
i really see no reason to live a life this achingly average.
unless you simply cant manage your own finances homelessness and starvation are off the table...
then again, ive been hungry and ive been homeless, so perhaps my comfort zone is somewhat removed from yours.
you know what?
its all going to be alright.
for everyone.
>>53564528
As long as you do your fucking work and get good performance reviews no one fucking cares how "passionate" you seem. I don't slack off and half ass things but I also don't wear a shirt that says "I <3 CS" on it every day. It's a job, not a lifestyle. You don't have to pretend like you're doing something for the greater good or some bullshit. You don't have to drink the Kool-Aid. If you want that attitude then go to a startup.
>>53564597
B-but I've always wanted to be a philanthropist like Billy Gates and Mark Zuckerberg and be known for making some sort of technological impact on the world
>>53564544
>its all going to be alright.
>for everyone.
No, it honesty won't.
Most people, especially those on /g/, are going to die penniless and miserable. Wages are going to keep falling, serfdom is going to keep spreading. Technology only funnels power into the hands of the elite. The more time goes on, the less power you have over your owners, and the more power they have to enforce their control over you.
>>53564668
America is on track to become great again in about 8 months, though.
>>53564668
>>53564686
>>>>/pol/
the real threat to people on this board is depression, hence my positive sentiment.
>>53563854
Except it's very easy to introduce huge latency spikes with sloppy programming. Uncontrolled allocations, naive design with no thought to big-O complexity, and that's just the start of it. Don't prematurely optimize, but don't prematurely pessimize either.
History has taught us that you measure twice, refactor once when it comes to optimizing. Not to not optimize.
>>53562686
Final year CS student in the final semester. I am honestly considering being a janitor.
>>53563437
jesus thats so true and quotable.
>>53565008
>it's very easy to introduce huge latency spikes with sloppy programming
In my experience, that's usually not true. Uncontrolled allocations are fine; it's MUCH better to do a lot of allocating in order to buy yourself a lot of names for things then it is to fuss and worry about a handful of bytes here and there. The only time allocations become a problem is if you introduce memory leaks (or situations that act like them) and get into a situation where you consume ALL of your memory, no matter how much you have. If you have any talent at all, you won't introduce these things; they're resultant from bad design.
Meanwhile, naive design with no thought to complexity is fine too. Unless you're in a hot zone, complexity is *irrelevant*. Really, truly, honestly, irrelevant. I've shipped full tree traversals to clients before: exponential complexity, but I didn't care. No test case took longer than a millisecond. Devising a heuristic to use A* or doing some kind of redesign would have taken several hours of work, possibly half a day to get proper test coverage, and half a day billed to the client is about $550. That millisecond is not worth half a grand.
There are a LOT of very good, very thorough, testing and benchmarking utilities out there. Unless your project leads have their mothers bring them tendies at lunch, you're going to know with absolute certainty where the hot zones of your codebase are.
>>53565143
Do you have a job offer yet? If you graduate without an offer you're already at a huge disadvantage; the top talent gets scooped up in their senior year, so applying to jobs right out of graduation tells them loud and clear that you're NOT the top talent.
You've got about 4-6 months after graduation until you're a pariah. At that point, if you still haven't found a job, your only option is to claim that you took that time to go backpack around Europe or something.
No.
They almost did.
The process of getting into the job market is very nearly doing it.
Won't keep you posted.
Not him, but christ is that ever depressing. I'm in my final year of my CS program and I've yet to find even an internship. Those fucks back in high school lied to me when they said I was practically guaranteed a job after I get a college degree. My only solace is that I'm not the only one getting fucked by the system. The only thing keeping me from killing myself is the idea that it will make my family sad.
>>53565520
meant for >>53565273
>>53563965
>Passion is what makes great engineers great.
High IQ is what makes great engineers great. Passion is a plus, but IQ trumps passion.
>>53563437
>>53565177
>implying you can't break people.
Kind of, I just don't feel like joining the workforce and becoming a drone. The fact that it might happen once I'm out of college frightens me.
I don't know what to do with my career.
Did intro to java while in community college and hated coding. Switched to computer engineering
passion was dead by about 2 semester \. now it just feels like something I have to do like taking a shit
>>53565653
you become a drone if you don't interact with your coworkers, supervisor/boss, or others in the company.
show them that you have a presence that isn't just "that guy that wrote module B"
>>53565684
>you become a drone if you don't interact with your coworkers
>if you don't interact with your coworkers
>if you don't
>interact
>coworkers
holy shit. the people you work with and for are the only factor that contributes to becoming a drone. they create the environment that breeds them. they are very likely ones themselves. do you have any idea what you're talking about?
>>53565234
Milliseconds are precious resources faget. Worrying about performance on the order of microseconds is usually stupid. Milliseconds not. Apes like you are the reason phones still suck.
>>53565776
What to know how I know you don't have a job?
>>53565810
There are only 1000 milliseconds in a second. For those that actually have to give a shit about end user experience, if some thrown together routine occupies a whole goddamn millisecond it is a hot spot by definition.
>>53563712
Some indians are fucking good at this.
>>53565776
Why work harder if you're not going to be paid more?
>>53565867
Fuck off Wally.
No. But mainly because its a hobby not my major/career pursuit
>>53563613
>Does 4 year degree just for the money
>Doesn't even google the actual career prospects or what paths actually make money
If you weren't retarded youd be in trades anon. But don't worry your CS degree will be a total asset! No one else will have one or anything. Really rare skill in high demand. I mean shit your uni has what 5-10 cs majors?
>>53565854
It took a millisecond in the WORST CASE. A test case with literal millions of nodes of random noise.
It's fine.
>>53562686
The university was awesome! First 3 jobs where great then... i became a manager passion went out the door. Now is all dealing with corporate politics having to shield my department from the upper management because they can barely use their phone and look at facebook they know computers
IT has become the overpaid janitors of the corporate world fighting tooth and nail to have a mediocre budget to meet their expectations of perfection
>>53564004
People like you are usually the most successful, don't listen to these either faggots that are more than happy to work overtime in the office for no pay or recognition because they "have a fulfilling career" and "love what they do."
It's just a front, it's fake, they know they will never be rich so they pretend to love what they do to hide the pain deep inside.
>>53565997
Projecting much?
>>53562686
I've only got one year left and I want to kill myself more and more every day
>>53564004
>>53565997
both of these positions are horrible. working for the sole purpose of money is awful and you will make awful things. working without pay is equally stupid. but there are plenty of people that enjoy their work. there's simply too many retards that accept bad working conditions and lie to themselves about it to make it through.
I picked CS for reasons I can't remember. Now I'm a junior and will graduate next year, after losing all interest in it halfway through my sophomore year.
Too late to quit and start over, nothing else even remotely interests me. Feels bad man.
>>53565729
is it really /that/ easy for you to lose your individuality/identity by setting foot in a place that is outside of your comfort zone?
you talk as if everyone that has a job is a car salesman waiting to sell you a brand new car. they're not. and if they are, please cite an example of a company (a tech company since this is /g/ discussing computer science jobs, not some multi marketing business bullshit) that turns people into cult-following drones. im intrigued.
where do people get the idea that interacting with others will turn them into some kind of drone? that is peculiar.
>>53566077
>please cite an example of a company (a tech company since this is /g/ discussing computer science jobs, not some multi marketing business bullshit) that turns people into cult-following drones
LITERALLY all of them
>>53562686
If anything, it has increased it.
>>53566077
>please cite an example of a company (a tech company since this is /g/ discussing computer science jobs, not some multi marketing business bullshit) that turns people into cult-following drones. im intrigued.
???? i don't even have to try and look. here's an extreme version.
https://theweek.com/articles/474359/5-signs-that-apple-cult
>>53562686
I've graduated and I never lost that passion. When the professors (etc) are interested in the subject matter, the classes are engaging and easily hold your attention (it also helps if you yourself are interested). Getting non-trivial assignments later on can also be fun (varies class to class / subject to subject); things like building an entire functioning microprocessor from the ground up in a logic simulator, writing a simple system shell (without using system()), adding a syscall to the kernel, measuring the resource cost (mostly time) of using synchronization devices in a multi-threaded or multi-process program, or implementing a basic ray tracer without using a graphics library. Projects like these kept my university experience fun. (these examples are just what I enjoyed most, and all done in C aside from the microprocessor, though I did write an assembler for it in C)
>>53565970
This is unfortunately accurate in my experience.
>>53566052
post school
>>53566117
>When the professors
But the professors suck at what they are teaching, if the professor was really that good at whatever they are teaching, they would be doing that for a lot more money.
>>53566117
>tfw university did none of those awesome projects
I still remember one coding class where the professor banned laptops and you had to turn assignments in on paper.
>>53566117
Wow senpai my professors are not good at teaching. Doesn't help that students here suck and feel like they will instantly get a job. Then again I knew I picked a shit college but since they gave me a scholarship I figured I'd tough it out. Now I'm in my third year and not having a good time. Have had to teach myself by studying 24/7. Doesn't help that we're not doing any of the fun shit you're doing and are just being prepared to be corporate drones
>>53562686
I'm dead inside, I find nothing enjoyable.
>>53566097
that article raises some interesting points. i had no idea that they had standing ovations for new recruits. that's very eerie.
i do think that it's a little weird that your argument cites a job whose sole purpose is to interact with the public. that's definitely going to be skewed, even a little.
maybe my point wasn't coming across, or maybe we're missing eachother's points. my point was that simply getting a job isn't supposed to change who you are. joining a cult is one thing -- it changes your entire lifestyle. but having a job is on the completely other end of the spectrum -- you can return to your life after work. you're still you, you just have a job now.
>>53566332
>your argument cites a job whose sole purpose is to interact with the public
the cultish level of apple is far from limited to public-facing jobs. it's widespread throughout the organization. try doing some research and get familiar with common knowledge on this topic.
>a job isn't supposed to change who you are
everything you do changes who you are. and even in some parochial sense, do you think working 40+ hours a week doing something will not change you? your brain undergoes drastic changes when you interact with different cultures and people. this is an automatic thing, like how babies acquire their first language.
>a job is on the completely other end of the spectrum -- you can return to your life after work. you're still you, you just have a job now
current trends are going in a very different direction than what you seem to believe. companies now want you to drink the gatorade. and they check that you swallow. it's like you've crawled out from under a rock where you slept for the past two decades.
>>53565867
maybe you will learn something valuable? You won't learn anything here I can tell you that much.
>>53566425
>the cultish level of apple is far from limited to public-facing jobs. it's widespread throughout the organization. try doing some research and get familiar with common knowledge on this topic.
i do agree with your point, that most companies are headed that way. definitely big corporations are. gaming companies are definitely already there. but by no means are all companies there yet.
>everything you do changes who you are. and even in some parochial sense, do you think working 40+ hours a week doing something will not change you? your brain undergoes drastic changes when you interact with different cultures and people. this is an automatic thing, like how babies acquire their first language.
but what's so bad about this? what's wrong with personal growth?
>current trends are going in a very different direction than what you seem to believe. companies now want you to drink the gatorade. and they check that you swallow. it's like you've crawled out from under a rock where you slept for the past two decades
forgive me if i sound like i hid under a rock. i just didn't think this was an issue that people like you and me could fight. i thought that there's no point in fighting this since we can always jump ship to other companies. but perhaps, soon enough, that company would follow it too.
maybe im part of the problem too.
>>53565923
You're full of shit
An exponential complexity algorithm with n in the millions would not run in a millisecond
>>53566052
Switch to math, it's what I did. You've probably taken most of the classes you need already, there's a lot of overlap, and you'll still end up with a CS minor.
>>53566816
0.000000001^n is still O(e^n)
>>53566754
>but what's so bad about this? what's wrong with personal growth?
this is how you get socialized into a drone lifestyle. it's 'growth' into something unwanted. you aren't immune to it because you have a happy work ethic and positive outlook.
>>53566927
>'growth' into something unwanted
welcome to le real world faggot
>>53566925
That's not exponential complexity though, that's constant time.
>>53566935
>it's normal therefore you have to accept it.
i'm saving up to live in the wilderness of canada. no welcome for me. you can enjoy your suffering compromised lifestyle.
>>53565273
No offers yet. Didn't do an internship.
I have no idea what the fuck I am going to do in the job. My grades are good.
And I know that there are 14 year olds in this board that can code and create software better than me.
>>53567167
>no internship
You're sending your CV to the wrong places. You should be going to the unemployment office instead
>>53567167
>why abortion needs to be legal
Are MIT lectures a good way to prepare for my CST 100 class in this summer?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6U-i4gXkLM&list=PL6B1538774DA3F000
>>53567167
Dude you even need to intern in welfare for welfare nowadays.
Without 6-12 months of experience in being in welfare you can't get it, so you go for an unpaid internship in being on welfare.
I'm in my 4th semester and learning assembly and it's really fucking fun. I completed an assignment 4 weeks early because I started on it and didn't stop for 6 hours because I was having a blast.
>>53566754
The thing is when you're being changed, you don't constantly grow. There are times where you will stagnate or even worse, regress.
I am working Java Spring legacy applications.
That's all I need to say I guess.
>>53563437
stallman certainly lost his passion for programming long ago
>>53562745
I feel you.
And I thought I'm the only one.
