LISP
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
If Lisp is such a god-tier language, then why is it vastly unknown, unused for projects?
Geniunely curious here
It's not unknown and it's not unused for projects. The reason it's not more widely used, now that's a good question. I think it's because of Unix and education.
>>53492401
UNIX, the great popularizer of "if it has a REPL, you can stick it in a pipeline", responsible for the obscurity of a language that was the innovator of the REPL? You'd think it would fit right in.
>>53492252
minor presence in education
lack of community
too many implementations, none of which sell themselves effectively
C-like languages rule the roost
>>53492252
It's used in the best Unis to teach the new generation of top tier programmers.
>>53492518
Written in C so all extensions to system, including programs, were easiest to do with C, which led to the popularity of C style programming languages.
>>53492520
>too many implementations, none of which sell themselves effectively
Non-issue. I thought it was huge issue before learning Lisp, but it's not. The only three relevant implementations are ECL, SBCL and CLASP anyways.
>>53492715
>what are shells
>what is python
>what is ruby
Perhaps "ALGOL-style" would be a more accurate term for you to use.
>only relevant Lisp implementations are CL implementations
http://niceme.me
>>53492252
(i(t)s (the (syn(tax)(), take))() ((a(()) lo()ok) at(())) (it, its (almost()) incomprehensible.))
now, you learn c, and even without knowing any other language you're going to be able to take a pretty good guess at what a java, python, perl, c#, c++ program is doing.
but mainly? its the syntax.
>>53492715
There's also Chicken, Guile, and Racket.
>>53494405
A nice vpn will be made :)
>>53492252
I use a dialect of lisp, SKILL. I think the reason it works and widely adapted in this case is because it makes calling functions and scripting very easy and intuitive. But for everything else it looks weird to people who use any other language.
>>53492252
Because "muh parens"
The Lisp family of languages is one of the oldest and the most powerful.
The ONLY reason Lisp-like languages are not ubiquitous today is because "coders" are scared of parentheses.
Ironically, these are the same people that extoll the virtues of XML, not realizing that Lisp s-exprs have the same level of expression in a more reasonable package.
I am not really sure. I should use it for more projects.
>>53496566
SGML is way more expressive than s-exprs for the task SGML is used. Both XML and SGML are used mostyl for markup though, which is definitely not what s-exprs are doing in Lisp. You are a fool for comparing s-exprs to XML.
>>53496566
The parens don't enter into it. The reason LISP died was because it was so attached to AI research and when the AI winter hit, LISP died too. Languages like C were also better suited to the "serious business" hardware of the time, requiring less overhead and allowing more bang for your buck.
So why is LISP still dead? The parens are only a small part of it, the big problem is that there's dozens of LISPs out there each with their own segment of the market - without a 9,000 lb gorilla there's no momentum in any one direction. Not to mention that LISP also has a readability problem - it can be really difficult to follow somebody elses' code.
>>53496691
S-expressions can model markup in the exact same way that XML and SGML can, but with less nonsense
Scroll down this page for some examples: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?XmlIsaPoorCopyOfEssExpressions
>>53494405
The first member in the parentheses is a function and everything else are its arguments.
Bam, now lisp is simple.
>>53492252
>what is GNU Emacs?
>>53498836
hmmm yeah i know but its just not readable, having..
f(a,b)
is just way more obvious than...
(f a b)
theres nothing separating the args from the func name, theres nothing helping me, i have to remember thats what it is. the syntax should help me. and why have the brackets at all then? why not just?
f a b
and yes i know its pure, and yes i know it makes the compiler writing easier, i dont care its not readable, obj-c has similar issues.
besides that theres stuff like...
(defun -reverse (list)
(let ((return-value '()))
(dolist (e list) (push e return-value))
return-value))
'() ?!!!?! assuming wikipedia doesnt have a mistake, wtf does that '() even mean? see? not readable, i cant even make a guess.
>>53499183
It's an empty list. The apostrophe means "literally", so '() means "literally nothing"
>>53499183
I've written a simple language that uses prefix notation but doesn't use parentheses. Shit's way less readable because you can't immediately see scope. The reason they're needed in Lisp is because functions can have variable numbers of args
>>53494405
C can get pretty damn ugly too, and others like Java can get overly verbose.
My bet is that it's more difficult to edit lisp programs for noobs.
Once you *get* one of: paredit/smartparens/structural editing/parinfer (parinfer = current best one for noobs), editing sexps is easier than typing a fucking english sentence. And once you understand how the indentation works - those kinds of problems melt away.
So I wrote cljsfiddle.com ;) -- for the noobs.
WTF have u done to help people learn lisp?
>>53500368
This. You frequently use parenthesis in Haskell to improve readability even when it isn't necessary
Why do you always post this anime boy?
Is it a hentai joke like boku no piku?
>>53501120
It's a grill.
no really
and the anime is kinda g related
lithp
>>53501370
its a bear dumbass
>>53501370
Posted the same low quality bate on /k/ and got 6 replys calling me a newfag/retard
Can't tell which bored is more autistic now
http://www.winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html
>>53497664XML:
<foo>
<integer>3</integer>
<string>abc</string>
</foo>
S-expression:
(3 "abc")
Beautiful.
Except not at all.
Well done missing my point and linking a page that talks about XML for data-interchange and not for markup.
How would a HTML page using s-expressions look?
>>53492252
Beside the other reasons mentioned, remember that lisp comes with the assumption that the programmer wildly likes to create his own DSLs.
I don't want your shitty unemployed DSL and so does nobody else with a sane mind.
