http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/
How does it make you feel, /g/?
>>53065919
i agree with apple's position, but i question their motives.
>>53065919
Scrolled right to the end, clicked accept.
What did it say?
Feels so strange that Apple support encryption considering they used to be part of Prism.
It makes me feel creeped out. I bet the Jamals on /g/ will love if iphones had a backdoor.
>>53065986
>implying theres an accept button
A person uses my software application to communicate and plot an illegal crime. It is a crime for me to cooperate with law enforcement.
A murderer hid a body and murder weapon in my backyard. It is a crime to allow law enforcement into my backyard.
This is seriously how some people think. I'm against software companies allowing backdoors for governments and whoever to peek whenever they want willy nilly, but some people have some serious autism.
>>53066045
You're retarded faggot. The whole point is you can't let access to one device without they're being access to all devices.
>>53066045
it's not about refusing to cooperate, it's about being unable to cooperate unless you intentionally design your software to be insecure.
>A Message to Our Customers
So not me. I couldn't care less.
insulted
>>53065919
How does this make you feel mactard?
>>53066203
>>53066248
it nags me a little that the article isn't quoting any sources.
not saying it's bullshit, but i'd like a trustworthy source.
>>53065919
Apple is still a US based company so they will still have to hand out information about their customers
never trust your personal information in the hands of a united states based company
Doesn't appear to make sense. They say this is about encryption. They imply they could (but won't) build a new firmware that somehow ignores that encryption, reading already encrypted data without a key. If that was indeed possible, then the backdoor would have to be already in place by not encrypting the information correctly or by storing the key itself somewhere. So it is either
a) They can't possibly comply even if they wanted to and this whole thing is a non-issue
b) The backdoor is already there.
>>53066248
YES, THEY CAN EXTRACT SOME DATA FROM THEIR IPHONES ALREADY
THE THING THEY DON'T WANT TO DO IS MAKE A CUSTOM BACKDOORED SOFTWARE FOR THE FEDS BECAUSE THEY WILL JUST USE IT ON EVERY OTHER PHONE NOT JUST THE SAN BERNARDINO ONE.
Its not hard to "decrypt" what apple is saying.
>>53066265
google apple backdoors pdf
first link
>>53065919
i agree with the privacy thing but they clearly have ulterior motives here
>>53066666
Nice get.
>>53065919
It makes me feel like Apple already has a backdoor but is making a strong front to deceive people into thinking it doesn't just because it says so, and is using this situation as a PR marketing ploy.
On another account, FBI shouldn't be allowed to have a precedent.
But from Apple's POV, this is not because of the consumers.
It's because Apple doesn't want to deal with having to employ thousands of additional employees who will specifically have to deal with FBI making requests every fucking minute from Apple on unlocking phones and providing access.
>>53065919
They're going to give in eventually.
>>53066123
They can though.
Apple are being asked to make one special ROM for one particular device (the 5c which doesn't have secure region that 5S, 6 and 6S have) that they can keep on their own site, install on the 5c on their own site and give the FBI only remote access.
And then they can delete everything because there is no stipulation to retain the code.
Apple should drag their heels as much as possible before complying because it will limit the severity of cases by which they will be asked to do such a service.
Hopefully Applel wins this in court.
They might be looking after their own PR/reputation, but if they are able to defeat this they will be protecting us from a power hungry FBI who wants easy, on demand access to all information and devices.
Whatever is on Farook's phone is not that important. If he transmitted information from the phone to another person, they can get that information. They want a legal precedent so they have a leg to stand on when they start forcing other companies to break the security of their products. Long term they want to target strong crypto in particular, which is something Directory Comey basically sees as the enemy and a threat to his ability to prosecute criminals.
Can somebody get me up to scratch please?
I have no idea what this thread is about and I don't live in the USA :3
>>53066666
checked
>>53066876
>Hopefully Applel wins this in court.
they'll never win. Phones / apps boil down to non essential toys. You can search them. The apple CEO is just another crying gay liberal
>>53066880
FBI issued a court order to Apple to make a modified version of iOS so they can break into the phone of a domestic terrorist.
They want the following:
1) Infinite password attempts.
2) No delay between attempts.
3) The ability to enter the passwords externally with a program.
On the surface this seems innocuous. Indeed, the propagandists at the FBI want people to believe this is a very specific request targeting a very specific person.
That is half true. The real motive of the FBI is not to get whatever was on Farook's phone, but instead to establish a legal precedent. The FBI has openly said in the past that it hates strong cryptography and would like to see it banned or backdoored.
>>53066934
>The FBI has openly said in the past that it hates strong cryptography and would like to see it banned or backdoored.
it's counter-intuitive to national security and the safety of Americans
>>53066893
How does a personal phone, which has a camera and microphone on it and tracks the users location, boil down to a non-essential toy?
I suspect you wouldn't be in favor of a law requiring everyone to wear a government issued ankle bracelet. Or maybe you would be, knowing how many fascists are on 4chan.
I realize you're probably a troll, but humor me.
>>53066880
There was a shooter or criminal of some kind that did crazy shit.
FBI got a shitload of their devices, including pretty much all data that they require from Apple.
FBI wasn't content with that and wanted to force Apple to make a backdoor specifically for the FBI to utilize, as a precedent.
Apple didn't comply and decided to make a PR stunt out of this by acting like it is protecting the people and consumers and their rights.
In reality Apple may already be providing a backdoor to NSA (but not the FBI), but we aren't aware of it, since empty words aren't to be trusted.
The real reason Apple didn't comply is because it doesn't want to waste billions of dollars employing thousands of people to deal with the FBI's requests for Apple to constantly provide access to suspects and people every day, as that would be the consequence of the FBI setting up a precedent.
On one side it's a good thing, because privacy.
On another side, Apple is doing it out of selfish reasons and not "for the people durr", and is probably also lying their asses off while putting up a strong front of deceit.
>>53066203
>>53066248
Have you been living under a rock? All of these cases were before Apple implemented hardware encryption.
>>53066961
And yet critical to the security and privacy of businesses and consumers.
It's very hypocritical of the FBI to talk about how companies need to "work with the FBI and government as a whole" to "secure networks and defend against cyber attacks", while stabbing them in the back by attacking one of the pillars of computer security, confidentiality.
It seems offensive capabilities are more important to the FBI and the government as a whole than keeping Americans secure.
>>53066970
>How does a personal phone, which has a camera and microphone on it and tracks the users location, boil down to a non-essential toy?
You dont need one, lots of people survived without one. I must be getting old but I remember a time without cell phones in schools.
>I suspect you wouldn't be in favor of a law requiring everyone to wear a government issued ankle bracelet.
I have literally nothing to hide, dindu nuffin
>>53065919
The same thing that it did for the dozens of threads we've had about it over the last two days.
Missed those threads? Go use the archive.
>>53067008
>It's very hypocritical of the FBI to talk about how companies need to "work with the FBI and government as a whole" to "secure networks and defend against cyber attacks", while stabbing them in the back by attacking one of the pillars of computer security, confidentiality.
>computer security
once you start breaking serious laws and even gunning people down in the mall you've lost all your fuckin pillars dude
>>53067066
These laws impact legitimate users of cryptography as well as terrorists. Strong cryptography is used everywhere. Not only to protect your online bank transactions, but to protect core infrastructure. How do you think technicians get secure remote access to a router, or handle authorization/authentication across an enterprise?
The FBI also isn't going to contain itself and restrict the use of this kind of power to counter terror cases.
Look at their record with the PATRIOT Act.
From 2006 to 2009, only 0.8 percent of sneak and peek warrants (15 out of 1,755) were used for counter-terrorism cases, the rest were for fraud or drugs. These numbers haven't really improved over recent years, despite expansion in the use of sneak-and-peek warrants. Only 0.5 percent of sneak-and-peek warrants were used for terror-related cases in 2013. From 2003 to 2006, the government issued 192,449 national security letters, which led to 1 terror-related conviction. The government currently issues about 60 NSLs a day.
This shows 2 things.
1) When the government tells you powers it gets are only used on terrorists, it's lying.
2) How uncommon of a problem terrorism is in the grand scheme of things.
>>53067163
mate, America was founded before the first computer. What do you think George Washington would say if they found a an english rebel with some documents on them that were "encrypted" which were rumored to show the plans for another attack from England to try to "take back" the colonies? Would he say SHIT privacy? Or would he de-crypt? This is the heart of the argument.
If you have a cellular phone, I assume you dont store nuclear launch codes on it. I assume you only have your bank records and text logs at most. No one's talking about decrypting something that has nuclear codes on them, except liberals like mr. Gay trying to defend known dead terrorists,
>>53066203
>>53066248
Why do I have to repeat this over and over, this article is false, the person who wrote it doesn't understand what the situation is.
YES Apple has unlocked iPhones before based on search warranty requests by the FBI and NSA.
NO Apple did not refuse to unlock the iPhone 5C, they said no to creating a 'master key', or 'backdoor', custom iOS version that would ignore the 10 faulty tries wipe feature AND allow the FBI to digitally input codes to bruteforce it and unlock it that way. This is ethically wrong and they legally cannot ask Apple to create such software, since it would more than likely be reused for multiple occasions, and eventually leak into the public, even if this wouldn't happen, Apple would basically have given the government a key to unlock any iPhone, no matter for what reason. It would also fundamentally break down everything Apple, and other security firms, have worked on to protect their customers from having their personal data accessed and having their privacy revoked.
>>53067271
>a wartime example
Of course he would. Why do you think Martial Law exists?
The question is should we do it in peacetime. Do you think we're at war or something?
>>53067334
>Do you think we're at war or something?
We're at war with radicalized islam and extremists. If we weren't, we would have hundreds of thousands of troops in service and getting blown up / shot at. Nigga I've seen people come back with no legs
>>53067271
Yes, lets base all present and future decisions what people in the 1780s thought.
The constitution is great, but you guys should have moved onto a living tree doctrine type long time ago.
The issue at hand is the government essentially wants apple to weaken the security on every iphone so they can just unlock it at will in the future.
They don't give a shit about this one case, they are only using it to try and set a precedent.
>>53067027
>dindu nuffin
'til the gubmint decides you did, goyim.
>>53066279
No. Look at >>53067294
>>53067367
Mate I'm talking constant conflict. Not skirmish and occupation work we label as war.
For fucks sake we lost more people to the Mexicans in the 1840's than we have in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.
>>53067380
>The constitution is great, but you guys should have moved onto a living tree doctrine type long time ago.
And how exactly would that document differ from the Constitution in your opinion?
>>53067294
Because iOS is closed source you can't prove apple doesn't have a backdoor on all apple devices.
One thing is for certain, apple can't be trusted.
>>53067432
Never mentioned they wouldnt have one or multiple already, thats not the point in this case.
>>53066998
>FBI wasn't content with that and wanted to force Apple to make a backdoor specifically for the FBI to utilize, as a precedent.
How does setting up a backdoor do:
>for Apple to constantly provide access to suspects and people every day, as that would be the consequence of the FBI setting up a precedent.
?
>>53067411
we're at WAR. If you think we're not, then you're clearly confused. This is not peacetime. War has changed from your WW2 and below where you officially "declared" you were at war by sending a letter. If you don't believe that you must have been living under a rock for the past 15 years
>For fucks sake we lost more people to the Mexicans in the 1840's than we have in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.
>1840s
>>53067461
Backdoor as in access without warrant requirement.
I should have worded myself better. But the next logical step is a proper backdoor as in software backdoor.
Someone would still have to actually deal with accessing all that shit too.
I'm a bit confused about the matter myself though in regards to the nature of access FBI is asking for, beyond it being a precedent.
>>53067466
Bullshit, Vietnam was a war, Korea was a war, Gulf was a war; hell even the initial stages of Afghan and Iraq 2 where we came in and smeared kebab on the floor was a war. I get your point that we don't officially declare it anymore, same reason we have a Sec Def rather than Sec War, but everything since 2003 has been occupation and skirmish.
>>53067466
we've been in a perpetual state of war since the fucking 50's m8, what's your point?
>>53067505
Bull, goes on longer than that. Haiti, China, White Russia, WW1, Nicaragua, Spanish and Philippines, all the shit with the Indians.
what people don't seem to get is that it's not the fact that they aren't complying with the FBI to "make backdoor software", it's the fact that they aren't going to give it to them. As in, Apple has backdoor access from the get go and that's how they get their own research data from their own customer base (along with the service providers), they just aren't willing to give it to the feds if it means they don't have the leg up on the "security" of their own product anymore, and/or they aren't getting an even bigger tax break because the feds can legally go after their overseas profits for tax purposes but they have well paid lobbyists making sure that the feds turn a "blind eye".
Their inclusive nature has helped them until now, but if it means gathering evidence to launch another ground war (because war means money for companies that supply the war machine, and the lobbyists paid by those companies might be paid even better than apple lobbyists), then the feds will do whatever they can to increase their own funding for another 10 years (if you haven't realized it by now, the way the feds work is if you have a budget surplus in your department, your budget gets cut for the next year. That's why they always overspend, so the next year they get a budget increase. And the taxpayers foot the bill. Gotta love "the land of the free").
Since when was a war against goat fuckers an excuse to do stupid shit?
We're at war, so let's cripple the security of our businesses and people.
>>53067626
because
>>53067556
money for the war machine
>>53067556
>they just aren't willing to give it to the feds if it means they don't have the leg up on the "security" of their own product anymore,
They made a non essential product with apps on it (iphone). It has to be able to be searched. Thats all there is to it.
But, lets go further, shall we? Say Apple comes out with a iCar and they encrypt everywhere it goes, too. Now you have little Abdullah who just blew himself up and killed 100 people and you have reason to believe that
>1) he has info on his encrypted iPhone
>2) he used his iCar to go somewhere once a month from 8pm-10pm.
Now you got a real problem. You could uncover his whole terrorist network if you some faggot just gets over his gayness. Otherwise, his network will get away with it and kill again.
This isn't even a hypothetical scenario, this is the real scenario
Why can't FBI secretly pay one of those top apple programmers to inject backdoor in the next iOS? Prove me wrong please, I can't understand why it isn't the easiest solution for the US.
>>53067659
Then the FBI should get in there by themselves, instead of demanding apple to make a tool that will do that for them.
>>53067659
>>53067724
You probably expect Apple to also carry out the Spec Ops missions too then.
>>53067714
They've attempted to covertly do this to a wide range of products.
They also want a "legal" front door. Look at how the NSA built up it's surveillance capabilities. They had multiple means of accessing the same information, in case one was struck down as illegal or in case a company didn't want to comply with their orders.
>>53067659
>You could uncover his whole terrorist network if you some faggot just gets over his gayness
>This isn't even a hypothetical scenario, this is the real scenario
Except this never happens in real life and is not worth the cost to the American public. Reminds me of the "ticking time bomb" argument that was used to justify torture.
>>53067659
>This isn't even a hypothetical scenario, this is the real scenario
So you're telling the NSA collected bulk data on nearly every person inside America and still can't stop terrorist attacks ?
Here is a thought, terrorists will always find a way to commit their attacks, if they feel apple is compromised they will use something else.
Police cry out for more money/powers all the fucking time, and yet crimes still happen. fuck them.
I have an idea, how about police put some boots on the ground doing real detective work then trying to weaken the security of every electronic device in existence.
>>53067659
More of a when rather than if, but WHEN the time comes when 99% of the vehicles on the road are tracked via gps (which means newer cars only, older, non gps enabled cars can only be tracked via traffic cams/red light cams, whether or not he has a phone on him and the like), this scenario will be more real than you think.
However with more and more vehicle manufacturers working on autonomous driving, where the feds could pull it over and lock the doors with the occupants still inside at a few simple mouse clicks, the chances of a terrorist network using newer cars in a future such as this would be slim.
>>53067724
According to one of snowden's retweets, the feds have spent millions actually trying to do just that
>>53067816
>So you're telling the NSA collected bulk data on nearly every person inside America and still can't stop terrorist attacks ?
Of course not. Every time there is a terrorist incident, the government needs more power.
It is an insatiable machine that can't be trusted.
>>53066893
>non-essential toys
>you can search them
You're pulling this out of your ass. It''s settled law that electronic data constitutes property.
In fact, the Supreme court just ruled in 2014 that you need a search warrant to look at a cell phone's contents. It was a unanimous decision.
Daily reminder not to feed the JTRIG agents.
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
>>53067905
>US involves itself in middle eastern politics
>tries to bomb shit away
>kills hundreds of thousands of civilians in a 'preventative war'
its like you guys create your own monsters to fight
If the government's surveillance programs are just, legal, and needed, why can't they stand on their own?
Why do they need to be hidden from public view and justified by classified legal arguments? Why does the government feel the need to retaliate against whistleblowers and use every dirty legal (and illegal) trick in the book to further its own authority?
Operational security demands some measure of secrecy, but not the pervasive, undemocratic, abusive secrecy that the government has used to protect itself.
>>53067956
>needing to tell it's citizens it's unlawful to search cell phones when they've been wire tapping for a decade before this
and this is why you cannot trust anything Washington says.
The day will come when the ayy lmaos descend and the feds will say it was a swamp gas bubble or some shit, and people will actually buy into it because of institutionalized brainwashing until they realize they are getting anally probed, and not by uncle sam this time.
>>53067905
The irony is that the 9/11 Commission said that the NSA and FBI had enough information to stop the attack, but couldn't put the pieces of the puzzle together. Naturally, the government demands more information to add to the information they already can't comprehend.
>>53067626
>we're at war
It's not even a real war. It's been 15 years and there is no end in sight. We ran out of targets in Iraq and Afghanistan so we funded and trained ISIS.
>>53067974
>create our own monsters to fight
We do. We created Al Qaeda to fight Russia and they turned on us. We created ISIS to fight Assad and they turned on us. We fund totalitarian regimes like Qatar, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia, then act surprised when the citizens of the region hate us. It's a big joke. Either we are the biggest, most foolish buffoon in history, or the most evil.
>>53068025
Because they don't want to be deliberately compared to the SS or the KGB (even though they pretty much are at this point, minus the blatant murdering in their own homes)
>>53068077
Stalin would cum buckets if he had half the domestic surveillance power the US currently uses.
>>53065919
iOS shills need to search this:
Identifying Back Doors, Attack
Points, and Surveillance
Mechanisms in iOS Devices
You're being lied to. A false sense of security is veryy fucking dangerous. Don't start spouting angry comments, just read the fucking PDF. My intentions are honest, I really am frustrated with the security situation these days.
>>53068076
we are both, but the kicker is we willingly fund our own bloodlust. It's like going to Vegas and hoping and praying to win big, but the chips are stacked against you, the odds are high, but fuck it as long as you get to blow something up to tell the guys back home about you'll keep giving them your money.
>>53068077
They're closer to the Stasi at this point.
By the 1970s, the Stasi wasn't breaking people's kneecaps or cutting off their fingers, they were using their omnipotent knowledge to ruin their reputation and manipulate them psychologically.
If that kind of abuse seems far away and far fetched, it isn't. America has some documented experience with this kind of soft terror. Look at Hoover's FBI and all of the discrediting operations it undertook against people (including US congressmen) that it didn't like.
>>53068025
I can understand secret courts for the cia and nsa; they are going to do what they are going to do no matter what laws exist because that's how black operations work, it's lip-service to have anything they do authorized at all anyway so whatever. However, the FBI is not a covert intelligence agency; you can walk around their offices in DC, what the fuck does it need secret courts for -- everything it does is supposed to be completely by the book.
>>53067797
>Except this never happens in real life and is not worth the cost to the American public.
>san bernardino denyer
>>53068175
JTRIG, pls go.
>>53068175
They blew the Farook case wide open before they needed a backdoor to Farook's phone. The investigation does not hinge on this court order.
Again, the info on his phone is not really that important to the investigation. The real prize is the legal precedent that it establishes, which the FBI will seek to gradually build up and legitimize in order to expand its power.
>>53067956
>You're pulling this out of your ass. It''s settled law that electronic data constitutes property.
>In fact, the Supreme court just ruled in 2014 that you need a search warrant to look at a cell phone's contents.
The warrant was filed and confirmed. They were terrorists and mass murderers, killing innocents in a mall with a network of supporters (starting with his brother). Time to give up this charade
Friendly reminder that the FBI's terrorism fighting units spends over HALF of the agency's entire budget. How the hell do Americans justify this?
>>53068232
What charade? That the FBI isn't a malicious organization that spews propaganda to justify itself?
Reminder:
>From 2003 to 2006, the government issued 192,449 national security letters, which led to 1 terror-related conviction
>>53068238
>How the hell do Americans justify this?
I like going into public spaces and not dying so I guess it's worth it
>>53068272
>less than 4,000 US citizens died in terrorist attacks on US soil since 2000
>300,000 Americans die each year from obesity-related illness
>more Americans die every week from obesity than have died over 15 years of terrorism
>>53068238
by buying flat screens, eating McDonalds, driving on the tax funded highways and by ways to buy said flat screens and eating said burgers.
We are oblivious and that's exactly how they want it. They want you smart enough to do your job, buy your material possessions and fattening foods, and most of all pay your taxes, but not smart enough to question what those taxes are paying for, nor question why you still give it to them once you find out.
>>53065919
As much as I hate Apple they are quite right
>>53068310
I'm not obese, so theres that. I actually live in Boston, MA very close to the boston marathon bombings where many people lost limbs or were killed. I could have very easily been one of the victims since I'm a runner for over a decade and have gone to see the boston marathon a couple times.
This is what im talking about, major terrorist incidents happened RIGHT NEXT TO MY HOME but you want to sweep it under the rug and forget about it
>>53068207
>The real prize is the legal precedent that it establishes
My theory about the situation is that the FEDs DO have the means to get the information they need and they in fact, have it. However, rather than showing their hand and blowing their exploit on a single case, they are feigning stupidity and trying to use Apple as a legal source of the information in court. Not only will this set a precedent, as you pointed out, but it also lulls people into a false sense of security and delays or prevents a patch to the exploit. Think about it, millions of people will remain sitting ducks, the FBI has an explanation for how they got the info, and they would now feel free to strong arm Apple and others into doing this in legitimate situations where they cannot retrieve data on their own.
>>53066000
>if
>>53068378
>3 people died
>less than 300 injured
You're a runner, you say. So i'm sure after you read this, you'd better be much more concerned about your surroundings when it comes to moving vehicles the next time you go out for a jog rather than an exploding pressure cooker.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/08/17/car-crashes-killed-people-mass-first-six-months/azyvCtNIN9E3NmI2B10ODI/story.html
>>53068131
>Identifying Back Doors, Attack
>Points, and Surveillance
>Mechanisms in iOS Devices
You're wasting your time. People are so caught up in Apple's attempts to declare themselves heroes, that they willfilly ignore the reality of the matter. That reality is that it's too late.
>>53065919
so, Apple can't even reset a phone/tablet's password remotely?
>>53068232
I know that you can search them, my argument was that you needed a warrant. You said that a "phone/app" was just a "toy", implying a court-ordered warrant wasn't necessary to search it.
>terrorists and mass murderers
Your boogeyman "terrorist" doesn't phase me. They were mass murderers, big deal. I'm not giving up my right to privacy because some jackass decided to shoot up a mall. When that bipolar asshole shot up the movie theatre, it was a mass shooting. Whenever an asshole shoots up a school, its a mass shooting. Whenever a muslim shoots anything up, its a "terrorist" act that requires us to give up all of our liberties to protect.
>>53068272
You're a coward. Your odds of dying in a terrorist act is ZERO.
If the real aim is to save lives then Obama should issue an executive order to close all fast food establishments. (See >>53068310)
The object is FEAR. They want you to be scared of some boogeyman with an AK-47 so that you sign over your inalienable rights.
The bottom line is this: you're not going to be safe 100% of the time. The only place you are legitimately safe 100% of the time is in solitary confinement. A few terrorist attacks every decade is the price of our freedom, much the same way that hundreds of thousands of deaths every year is the price of allowing people to drive cars. Much the same way that tens of thousands of deaths is the cost of allowing firearms.
>>53068490
>trying to downplay the signficance of terrorist attacks
If i was standing there chances are I would have either died or lost limbs, which is as good as death. I hate terrorists more than anything. Fuck apple.
>>53068542
Oh, they can. They just don't want to leak that kind of ability to the public, much less it's own user base. How else do you think they get their research data?
>>53068545
>The object is FEAR. They want you to be scared of some boogeyman with an AK-47 so that you sign over your inalienable rights.
mate, less than 20 minutes from where I am right now was a terrorist attack at teh boston marathon. Less than 3 hours away was the WTC terrorist attacks. Fuck muhammad
>>53068549
if you hate the two people who killed 3, i'd love to know your stance on all the drivers who killed one short of 150, in your own state no less.
>>53068568
>Fuck muhammad
This.
But the idea of giving up rights over this bullshit .1) means the cocksuckers have won. .2) Sounds awfully commie. Please realize the shame your logic brings to the principles of your nation.
>>53068549
>>53068568
>I hate terrorists more than anything.
Well, there's no way to win an argument with someone who isn't a rational person.
If you are being reasonable and looking at the situation objectively, it is easy to see that pigs, lightning, sharks, slips in the shower, snakes, plane crashes, and falling out of bed each killed more people in the last year than terrorism has killed in the last decade in the US.
I understand if you're upset about it. But you should ward off your knee-jerk reaction to sign over your civil rights. You really need to put things in perspective.
>>53068601
I dont care if 3 people were killed or 300. I care also about the wounded who lost limbs and are permanently disabled. If you cant understand that you should go join a cell
>>53068568
No one is saying terrorism is a non-issue. It is an issue and should be taken seriously by our law enforcement and intelligence people.
We're just putting it into perspective, so the next time some politician wants to take away your rights, you understand the real scale of the problem.
Stopping terrorism is not worth giving away civil liberties and freedoms. Often, once you give them power, they turn around and mostly use it on non-terror cases.
>>53068644
>I dont care if 3 people were killed or 300.
what kind of monster are you
>>53068568
>terrorists hate us for our freedom
>lets beat them by signing away our freedom
ok...
>>53068644
>If you cant understand that you should go join a cell
Nice fallacy, asshole.
>>53068644
They're all millionaires now. I'll willingly give up my legs to not have to work again.
>>53068644
>>53068568
>>53068549
>>53068272
JTRIG, pls go. SHOO SHOO
>>53068694
>I'll willingly give up my legs
Another one willingly giving up his freedom. WTF are they teaching you kids in schools these days?
>>53068740
>giving up my freedom
Shit. I'm not giving up my freedom, I'm actually getting another privilege. Could you imagine how much privilege a rich, white male with no legs gets?
>>53068740
Institutionalized brainwashing.
