Why do people think these things are evil?
Wrong board, you just posted on /consumershit/
Not being edgy, but everyone loves boogeymen.
Because most people know jack shit about GMOs, they immediately think it's bad that "we're playing god". Fucking meanwhile we'd all be dying of starvation without GMOs. All of this, however, does not excuse Monsanto. Fuck Monsanto.
Easy peasy, lemon-squeezy for the retarded:
>GMOs: Good, and necessary in today's world.
>Monsanto: Fuck them, and their draconian tactics of SUE SUE SUE.
>>51949795
Because they make the next generation of crops infertile forcing farmers to keep buying from the same seller.
I'm not against the product, I'm against the way they're being sold.
"It's not natural."
>>51949855
This... GMOs are a good thing, but Monsanto are pieces of shit. I don't mind if GMO was labeled, though. Would get cheaper stuff because the hippies would avoid it
>>51949795
People don't trust big corporations to keep them healthy, and with good reasons. When this attitude meets scientific illiteracy, people freak the fuck out. >>51949884
also this bullshit
>>51949870
I should add that Monsanto sues any farmer that grows the GMO products. Most of it happens because the GMO plants pollinate non-GMO plants from wind/bees/birds etc. This also causes the farmers crops to be infertile in the next season and his shit dies out.
>>51949870
That's bullshit. You don't give a shit about the "farmer" and don't pretend like you do. It's a business not a lifestyle
A lack of information or an overabundance of misinformation. People think GMO = mutant/radioactive or something and that other crops aren't basicslly the same process done slower
>>51949944
Fuck off merica
Here in Europe we protect our farmers.
>develop a critical point of view
>be labeled as gullible
Monsanto and GMOs are intertwined together.
You guys support GMOs... which use patents which everyone seems to love... yet are not supporting Monsanto. While I agree Monsanto is an evil corporation -- you guys just sound very hypocritical.
>>51949959
Humans never evolved consuming things like soil bacteria and all the other weird shit these companies are using to "improve" their products. Further,who would regulate what is used in creating these things. You want to develop cancer or organ failure in the name of saving ten cents a bushel of tomatos?
>>51950104
>which use patents which everyone seems to love.
Are you retarded?
>>51950104
>You guys support GMOs... which use patents which everyone seems to love... yet are not supporting Monsanto. While I agree Monsanto is an evil corporation -- you guys just sound very hypocritical.
Are you retarded?
I can support the concept of GMO and hate the monopolizing, evil corporation Monsanto without being a hypocrite.
God you're fucking stupid.
>>51950128
>Humans never evolved consuming things like soil bacteria and all the other weird shit these companies are using to "improve" their products.
If that's how you think then you should probably leave society because we didn't evolve with 99% of the shit we have today.
>>51950164
>>51950142
>retardedmind
The thing is, with GMOs, is that we yet don't know if they are relevant for our health or not. This is exactly the same thing as smoking during the 50's. Indeed, the big companies knew, but they didn't tell that nicotine is a drug. Maybe there are some side effects with GMOs that we ye don't know. So yes please, don't fuck with our health, and wait.
>>51949855
butthurt hippie detected
>>51949893
labelling it here in germany basically removed it from the supermarkets because nobody fucking bought the crap
>>51950142
I'm glad you see that you are not for patents.
>>51949795
Mutations are bad
>>51950223
They aren't comparable with each other.
GMO's are literally modified food. We've been doing that for centuries by selecting the good breeds and planting them, same goes for animals.
This is just a fast version with more control
>>51949870
This is to stop the GMO pollen from traveling on the wind and contaminating organic crops
It's lose lose no matter what they do
>>51950223
Go back to the 1950s and tell people that smoking is bad and will create generations of health issues. They'll all laugh at you and tell you to get the fuck out.
Humans are really good at wiping themselves out and will deny it at every cost.
>>51949795
Because believe it or not green lobbies have a lot of money and power behind their names. They spread disinformation out of stupity or backroom deals in order to get legislation passed. Hippies and college liberals love to rag on GMOs because they don't care about the poor and starving it might help, they care about themselves
>>51950267
Earth is already overpopulated.
>>51950223
>The thing is, with GMOs, is that we yet don't know if they are relevant for our health or not. This is exactly the same thing as smoking during the 50's. Indeed, the big companies knew, but they didn't tell that nicotine is a drug. Maybe there are some side effects with GMOs that we ye don't know. So yes please, don't fuck with our health, and wait.
>They're putting cancer in my food!!!
Most of the GMOs detail exactly what they've changed and what it does... You're an idiot.
>>51950287
>Earth is already overpopulated.
Get the fuck out of here
>>51950262
You want to compare 1950's smoking to something? Compare it to vaping.
>>51950287
No it isn't. That's bullshit. The world economy is overpopulated. Not Earth.
>>51950292
So why is Monsanto lobbying heavily against GMO labeling?
We should stop using science to improve computers because bad things might happen
https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/10/08/with-2000-global-studies-confirming-safety-gm-foods-among-most-analyzed-subject-in-science/
>>51950287
Then you should kill yourself to help out retard
>>51950287
On what scale? We certainly aren't overcrowded. Our main problem is feeding everyone.
>>51950226
>labelling it here in germany basically removed it from the supermarkets because nobody fucking bought the crap
Germans are retards who don't understand simplistic shit like GMO and instead think it's going to give them supercancer, yet can't come up with a single reason or defense besides "it's not natural!"
Not a surprise.
>>51950296
>Get the fuck out of here
I'm still waiting for you to have an argument.
>We aren't overpopulated
Oh yeah we sure are consuming resources at a healthy rate
And that rate sure as fucking isn't accelerating per person.
Fucking retards.
>>51950321
Burden of proof is on you, friend.
>>51950321
>earth is overpopulated
>no it isn't
>prove it!!!
see >>51950296
>>51950287
>hurr durr can't find a sizable apartment in this big city the whole world is overpopulated
>>51950321
>prove my non-existent facts are wrong
>>51950306
>So why is Monsanto lobbying heavily against GMO labeling?
Because there are many Americans just as dumb as the Germans described here: >>51950313
Labeling GMOs will literally have no effect. People will still buy the shit because fucking everything but organic stuff (that will probably double their prices if GMOs are labeled) use GMOs. Poor Americans, the vast majority of the country, will still buy GMO processed food.
>>51950296
There are too many humans ruining the planet for nature and wild creatures like the tiger and polar bear.
>>51950311
At some point Earth's human population will have to subside, there is no such thing as infinite growth on a finite planet. The goal should be refinement rather than expansion.
>>51950349
So you're a goddamn hippie
Got it
you fags are retarded, just as usual.
GMO crops arent resistant to pests, drought, weeds and so on, they are resistant to pesticides.
which basically means that they can survive when farmers dump excessive amounts of pesticides/herbicides on them, which are manufactured by monsanto again.
edgy idiots
>>51949855
>>51949870
>>51949893
>>51949912
>>51949927
Basically what they said. GMOs themselves are not bad, but the corporations are fucking scumbags. Threatening, blackmailing and suing the shit out of farmers. They also shut them up whenever they can to keep their dirty little secrets undercover. Watch "Food Inc" to get an idea of what corporations like Monsanto do. The movie is a little bit dramatic and hippie but it does contain some useful information.
>>51949944
>>51950104
Monsanto goes out of their way to keep their monopoly and stop farmers from quitting GMOs. If the farmers could use other GMOs they would.
>>51950287
No it's not.
>>51950311
>Our main problem is feeding everyone.
This isn't a problem the way you think it's a problem. We have, or can grow, more than enough food to feed everyone.
The problem is no one wants to give their money away to poor niggers in Africa so they can go cut up and eat the next Albino they see, or to mudslimes so they can behead more white people.
>>51950313
People in general are retarded when it comes to understanding scientific facts I am glad the retardation kept us from being experimented on like in the us though
>>51950223
The smoking thing is revisionist bullshit. Maybe cancer was not know to be a direct link but there are obvious health risks that are easily observed, like coughing up mucus. If smoking was not a health risk at all why would they have a minimum age to buy even back in the 50s.
>>51950329
People on this board probably think that everyone should have 10 kids because there's still plenty of room on on this planet. We should probably aim for 30 billion people on this planet because why not.
>>51950390
>People in general are retarded when it comes to understanding scientific facts I am glad the retardation kept us from being experimented on like in the us though
You're being experimented on in hundreds of other ways every single day, but yeah, thank god you don't have to eat experimental(ly proven safe) food!
>>51950387
While spoken more bluntly, that is true. Overpopulation isn't a problem in many developed nations, but mainly the third world where they shouldn't be able to sustain, but we interfere
>>51950363
I do smoke reefer
>>51950411
We shouldn't rush to it but 30 billion is about right iirc
20th century designs for a 21st century population.
Farming techniques are outdated. Interurban hydroponic gardening will solve many food problems.
>implying Earth is overpopulated
The World TFR is like 2.3 which is the real replacement rate for shit countries (ie most of them) and is dropping extremely fast.
Soon only Africa will be having kids.
>>51950241
If you really think that then you should literally not breed
>>51950463
>hydroponics
enjoy your vegetables tasting like nothing.
if you want urban gardening take a look at cuba's approach.
they do it out of necessity but its the only method that yields fruit and veg that actually has a taste
>>51950464
Which is a mixed thing. It will mean that they need even more food, but will force them to industrialize which massively improves IQs, literacy rates, and the food situation.
>>51950463
Even dirty commies could improve crops to save space and increase yields, hydroponic gardening is just another step forward.
>>51950487
>enjoy your vegetables tasting like nothing.
You're really fucking stupid.
>>51950464
Light blue is what should be the norm
>>51950464
Obviously infertility caused by GMO's.
>>51950330
Just because onus probandi isn't on you, that doesn't mean you shouldn't provide an argument (if you had any).
>>51950506
take a trip to any traditionally agricultural country and try to find produce thats not grown on an industrial scale.
hydroponics is just a very good way to mass produce lettuce and a couple of other crops on a very massive scale, but the taste is non-existent at best.
i aint eating that crap
>>51950464
The 1st world should of quarantined Africa from the beginning, because you can't just throw a 4th world tribal gatherer society into the 1st in a few centuries. It's no wonder Africa is so incredibly fucked up beyond repair, they're just not ready to make this jump so soon.
>>51950533
i swear to fuck, can we just execute nationalists?
>>51950560
Every country is ready to make the jump. They just need a strong leader.
We don't have any more of those, unfortunately.
We should kill half of earth's population and distribute the remaining population equally across the globe.
That's the only solution.
Saging this fucking bait thread, doesn't belong on /g/
>>51950533
>but the taste is non-existent at best.
And how does that happen exactly?
>>51950602
This is exactly where it belongs. Go back to your homescreen thread
>muh bait
Just because you find it controversial doesn't mean it's bait.
>>51950287
you could fit the entire population of the planet in Jacksonville Florida, plenty of room you dumb faggot.
>>51950592
Bill Gates's philosophy on population control is by raising the education in poor nations and then over time they'll naturally have less children per family. Africa has such a high birth rate because so many kids perish every day.
>>51950592
ok, lets start with you and your family
/g/ anon do you want to hear something awesome only to have your hopes crushed?
well, most of you probably heard of thorium molten salt approach to nuclear energy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK367T7h6ZY
well, theres this US company that wants to go deep in to it, its called ThorCon
problem is that NCR - the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, a federal entity is standing in the way even for experimental purposes with incredible regulations made for light water reactors...
So then came the big news:Indonesia and ThorCon to Develop Thorium Molten Salt Reactor
http://neutronbytes.com/2015/12/06/indonesia-and-thorcon-to-develop-thorium-msr/
Having one operational by 2021!!!!!
I was fucking ecstatic reading that
then few days come by and suddenly Indonesia is back in OPEC group and the plans for any going for nuclear are pushed to 2050
http://atomicinsights.com/plausible-explanation-for-indonesias-abrupt-turns-in-nuclear-energy-announcements/
FUCK ME, for having faith in damn 3rd world rag heads for a second (indonesia is 87% muslims)
>>51950618
magic
>>51950533
>take a trip to any traditionally agricultural country and try to find produce thats not grown on an industrial scale.
literally just stop by nearest village, choose random house, walk to the backyard and pick whatever they're growing there
>>51950642
Oh, you got him, everybody knows living space is the only valuable resource determining overpopulation
>>51950364
>which basically means that they can survive when farmers dump excessive amounts of pesticides/herbicides on them
they use less than on non-GMO crops. which is one of the ways farmers save money.
>>51950652
Unfortunately, my family doesn't have 3.5 billion members, otherwise, I would apply everyone to kill themselves.
Sadly, if I kill myself now, it won't make any difference, for I am naught but another speck of organic matter on the vast earth.
>>51950642
Overpopulation doesn't always mean not enough room.
Overpopulation can also apply to technology & ideologies not being adequate enough to sustain the population even if there is plenty of room. Theoretically Earth could sustain somewhere around 20 billion if our civilization were advanced enough, however our species is still very primitive make that happen.
>>51949870
>Because they make the next generation of crops infertile
No they don't. This never made it to market because of public outcry you stupid fuck.
>forcing farmers to keep buying from the same seller.
Every seed breeder make the farmers sign a contract stating that they won't reuse the seeds. Monsanto are not unique on this front.
>Most of it happens because the GMO plants pollinate non-GMO plants from wind/bees/birds etc
This is sensationalistic bullshit. The one farmer who claimed this defense was found INTENTIONALLY selecting plants.
>This also causes the farmers crops to be infertile in the next season and his shit dies out.
Again, no it fucking doesn't.
>>51950223
>The thing is, with GMOs, is that we yet don't know if they are relevant for our health or not
Yes we do. There have been tons of studies and they've been on the market for over a decade now. If they were bad, we'd know.
>>51950306
>If GMOs are so safe then why not label them?
>Oh yeah, well if GMOs are so safe then why are they labelled?
Idiotic arguments, both of them.
Seriously, you idiots need to actually go read the scientific papers. Not a single one of them says anything negative about GMOs.
>>51950647
He also did a speach that he wanted to vaccinate people to prevent overpopulation which sounds a lot like he wants to make people infertile which is not what he meant. He's pretty autistic
Le ebul kemtreils, iloominatee.
>>51950703
>Theoretically Earth could sustain somewhere around 20 billion if our civilization were advanced enough, however our species is still very primitive make that happen.
We could support 30+ billion right now if we wanted to.
We don't.
tl;dr version: Fuck niggers and their 10+ kids that they can't even provide for
>>51950694
doesn't matter, we start the pogroms with your family, then we continue from there until we have 3.5 billion left on the dot.
GMO are shit.
Nuclear power is not.
Greenfags are cancer.
>>51950718
You're just as retarded as people that are against GMO's.
>>51950718
>scientific papers. Not a single one of them says anything negative about GMOs.
I wonder if those scientific research papers were funded by Monsanto themselves. Ever consider that? Not all research has the best intentions in mind.
>>51949855
Dubs of truth, checked.
>>51949927
>>51949959
All true.
There's some room for speculation on whether manifesting genetic selection so precisely at a pre-cellular level could lead to 'unforeseen negative consequences', but relative to the uncertainty of outcome intrinsic to the previous method of grafting one rough-cut half genome to another & repeatedly mixing until best results, it's not convincing that GMO's are a development toward imprecise outcomes.
>>51950128
Kill yourself.
>>51950766
Sorry but solar energy is the future not nuclear.
Oh by the way Fukashima is still pouring radiation into the Pacific Ocean.
Because they're retards that just regurgitate whatever misleading "fact" they saw on some infographic one time.
>>51949855
>>51950164
Farmers only get sued for breach of contract that they knowingly sign when they buy seed (muh wind blown pollen was mostly bullshit). There's no monopoly at all, you can whatever kind of different seed you want from any number of different companies, you just can't clean and replant Monsanto seed when you previously agreed not to do just that. Farmers wouldn't use them if they didn't consistently offer the best yields and thus most profit.
>>51950306
Because idiots believe the memes. If you put a "WARNING: THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE" all kinds of morons would be too scared to understand it and panic.
>>51950801
>Not all research has the best intentions in mind.
Which is why these things are peer reviewed. Anyone can write what appears to be a scientific paper. Not everyone can get it published in a peer reviewed journal.
>>51950789
Please, point out how I'm wrong.
>>51949795
>Oh no! Someone made my food taste better and resistant to parasites! This will certainly destroy the world!
>>51949795
media has created a deep fear of condenser towers through the ages, and the green propaganda is using that deep dna embedded phobia to scam people out of money. You would think that jews are behind it but actually its just retards.
>>51950321
Hue hue hue you are supposed to join the Church of Euthanasia and McFucking kill yourself.
>>51950307
The seconds most studied subject is probably Aspartame, because the people is retarded.
>>51950853
You have waaay too much trust in these corporations. They'll do anything to have that extra profit.
>>51950853
I guess farmers break contracts almost every single time, then.
>>51950853
Then let the free market decide. Label GMOs for educational purposes, the same way someday lab grown meat will be sold in stores... people should know whether or not it's lab grown or farm grown. People want choice.
>>51950262
Really most people knew that smoking was bad for you. Every smoker notices shortness or breath and all that. The term "smoker's cough" was around for a long time before the link between cigarettes and cancer was proven.
>>51950223
This is an idiotic line of thinking. GMOs have been around for 30+ years and there's been a fuckload of studies on the subject. You are suggesting that we just assume anything new is potentially bad and should be avoided. This is totally anti-scientific method. You might as well avoid all medicines created in the last 30 years while you're at it.
>>51950836
>radiation
RADIATION! HAHA oh you know, that the biological impact of fossil fuel and thermic powrerplants alone have the impact of two times chernobyl EVERY YEAR.
Despite the fearmongering about radioactive fallout these are fucking nothing.
>>51950853
this, in a nutshell, Monsanto holds copyright on FOOD.
Food is the only thing that must stay free as in freedom; and that's why it pisses off agricultural workers. that's the only goal of GMO.
Europe seems to be against GMO crops.
Seems like it's only America defending GMOs.
Why is that?
>>51950899
This.
Just fuck monsanto, end of the story.
>>51950855
Peer review is really not as rigorous as you'd think
>You can't get picky just because YOU have too much food.
Shut the FUCK up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqvP1DZQyRU
>>51950836
Radiation doesn't pour
Radioactive water pours.
How radioactive is that water? Last time I heard it was barely above background radiation
>>51950836
>Mentions radiation and Fukushima
>Posts scary looking picture
>Picture is actually about the tsunami and has nothing to do with radiation
>>51950952
>Europe seems to be against GMO crops.
European people are against.
EU governments, especially the french 'socialist' party is actually pro-GMO. the EU also supports big patents, making things better with regulations and technocracy for them.
/pol/ aside, i wonder what kind of government is that. It's socialist-liberal as fuck, it even hurts; but pro-corporate like crazy. And I want to start a business, I just fucking can't.
>>51950633
>implying I have a smartphone
fuck off back to reddit
>>51950836
>Oh by the way Fukashima is still pouring radiation into the Pacific Ocean.
Any source on that?
And nuclear energy is the future. It's clean and the one downside is where the fuck to store all the radioactive waste, but that's precisely what Africa is for.
>>51951010
That's how shitposting works, friend
>>51950952
Because the people of Europe have more control over their governments and their governments listen to the peoples' desires more often than the American government does.
Unfortunately, most people are frothing retards when it comes to anything scientific, so they oppose GMOs. Murricans are also idiots, but the government knows better than to let idiots make decisions.
>>51951016
>European people are against.
Europoor here, most of us don't particularly care as long as it makes food and booze cheaper. Or at very least stops it from getting more expensive.
But anti-GMO groups are very very vocal, which might make it look like they are majority.
What's the standard for the proposed labeling of GMOs? What is a GMO? Isn't everything in the grocery store genetically modified? Corn sure as fuck didn't start out like this before humans got involved.
>>51951168
>What is a GMO?
Startpage it.
>>51951168
>Isn't everything in the grocery store genetically modified?
Yes. Everything but (not always the case even with) organic shit is GMO.
Organic food will skyrocket in price the moment GMO labels are forced, and no one will ever care about GMOs after that.
>>51950801
many scientists try to find bad things about GMO. there is huge wages for scientists who find bad things, it's just difficult to find anything bad.
>>51950952
Europeans ridicule Americans for being dumb, but the truth is that tons of Europeans are anti-science idiots who just default to "Whatever the rich guys are doing is evil"
There's a good reason why home schooling is illegal in Germany.
Ask any European why they oppose GMOs and I guarantee you will get an uninformed and vague "It's unnatural" type response. If you're lucky they'll cite some spurious claims from questionable sources as well.
>>51950836
you are a idiot, radiation is not measured in centimeters, you fool. your map don't show any raditation at all
>>51951191
What does that mean
>>51951258
DDG it.
>>51949855
What exactly is so bad about Monsanto? They've spent billions of dollars in R&D to develop their seeds; patenting them and protecting their patents only seems fair.
Also Monsanto have never sued a farmer over cross-contamination issues from another farm. The only ones who have been sued willingly violated patent law.
>>51951192
My problem is that crops have been selectively bred since the dawn of agriculture, and I haven't seen any hard science that proves modification in a lab is any worse than modification by selective breeding. I mean, if people want "natural" food, there's nothing "natural" about selective breeding.
>>51951168
>Isn't everything in the grocery store genetically modified? Corn sure as fuck didn't start out like this before humans got involved.
Yes, but conventional modification, like "organic" food changes thousands or tens of thousands of genes every generation. what is considered GMO is when only a couple of genes or no genes changes between generations.
>>51951282
That's an incredibly naive view on Monsanto. They are still a company that wants as much profit as possible. You're delusional if they do everything by the book
I dont understand how people could think that permanently altering the genetics of food crops is not without catastrophic risk. How many alterations do people think we can do before there is irreversible damage done? Monsanto doesnt care, they consider crop genetics as a 'product' that they own. Farmers dont care, they only want profits, they are too lazy to deal with proper breeding and pest control. It wont be till we finally lose a major crop like wheat or corn and *then* laws will finally be passed limiting genetic research to the lab.
I recommend /g/ read a few pages from this blog called dairymom. It's about a mom and her family that owns and works on a dairy farm. It's very interesting to get a farmers perspective of important issues related to agriculture without all the hysteria and misinformation surrounding it.
http://thedairymom.blogspot.com/2011/03/food-inc-or-black-sheep.html?m=1
http://thedairymom.blogspot.com/2010/05/family-farm-not-factory-farm.html?m=1
>>51951358
How do you expect us to "lose" crops? Are you under the impressions that the massive seed stores and other variants of the same species would just evaporate from the planet one day?
>changing things is bad!
I guess we better stop allowing plants to breed or mutate then. Do you have a way to stop cellular replication?
>>51951282
No no, Monsanto sued farmers and took down their harvest for using seeds that came from the very fruits/vegetables they grew, which means the farmers would be forced to buy Monsanto seeds every single season, and the harvest would be terminal.
The retard version of why GMO is bad is "Playing God, not made by nature, etc" the actual reason why it MAY be bad, is because we know just enough to genetically modify genotypes to have the organisms display certain phenotypes. Problem is, we don't know the full effect the changes have on the organism, as seen in phenomena with linked genes, and other related complex phenomena.
We do notice that wild life actually avoids GMO foods, we don't know WHY yet or at least I do not know why, but naturally grown food is feasted upon while GMO food is nibbled, then quickly rejected. Sometimes big companies make small changes to the crop that will make the crop unliked by animals but still fit for human consumption.
Quite a world we live in, eh?
>>51951420
Let me ask you a question to answer your question, would you let scientists genetically alter your child so that he was bigger or stronger so he could do work better? They have done that with animals like Sheep or Salmon to make them much bigger than normal so that the sheep can barely walk. But NO ONE has done that with humans because common sense tells us that making PERMANENT alterations to human DNA could make catastrophic changes to humans that can never be erased
>>51950801
>all peer reviewed studies are by paid shills
Moron
>>51951472
>would you let scientists genetically alter your child so that he was bigger or stronger so he could do work better?
Yes. I wouldn't even hesitate.
>>51951420
A supercrop that isn't edible and spreads really fucking fast counts as wiping out the crop.
>>51951494
bullfuckingshit you would, you are a Monsanto shill, you only care about profits, you are going to ruin cattle/crop DNA, its only a matter of time
>>51950836
>maximum wave amplitudes
>cm
Nice b8
>>51949795
Uneducated morons, lack of transparency, and the capitalist class gambling with the lives of others.
Neither of these are bad when used properly and are infact probably humanity's greatest achievements next to programmable computers in the last 100 years. However these things being run for profit is a recipe for disaster.
>>51951519
Calling people shills doesn't mean you win anon, it shows you can't come up with a logical explanation for your position, and are appealing to emotion. In other words, fuck off.
>>51951494
I would, if they could fully explain the science behind it to me and the risks it carries. Educated decisions first.
>>51951472
>But NO ONE has done that with humans because common sense tells us
No, eople haven't done that because idiots like you hate the idea of genetic engineering. Not to mention the obvious problems surrounding the testing phase, where you could potentially harm some people during experimentation.
> would you let scientists genetically alter your child so that he was bigger or stronger
If human genetic engineering had gone through a large amount of R&D and clinical studies, then hell yes. The day we can edit genetic defects out of unborn children will be a fantastic day for the entire human race.
>>51951519
>bullfuckingshit you would, you are a Monsanto shill, you only care about profits, you are going to ruin cattle/crop DNA, its only a matter of time
I'm not a Monsanto shill. I think Monsanto is an awful corporation. It's not possible to ruin DNA like you are assuming. You are a fucking idiot and have no understanding of genetics.
I would not hesitate to allow my children to be genetically superior.
>>51950894
My mother recently told me that I should not drink diet coke because the aspartame causes cancer.
She is a rational person with multiple degrees and a professional career.
I honestly don't know how this happens to people, it's in the same league as religion.
I was flustered/10
>>51951538
>However these things being run for profit is a recipe for disaster.
Mostly this. I have no issue with GMOs themselves, all that "hurr stop playing god" people can go fuck off. What I have a problem with is companies trying to enforce copyright on the DNA of their strains or making their plants infertile, forcing people to either buy new seeds every year, or go back to old crops (which, in some cases, can mean "going back to having no crops because no other plant can grow in this shithole").
>>51951561
>>51951560
>>51951472
Related question: If you modify your children to be genetically superior, are they still your children?
>Good GMO: We bioengineered this plant/animal, tested it for 5 years without any increased health issues on the animals we feed with this, and the seeds aren't sterile as to cause ecosystem problems when all the other varieties cease to be planted.
>Bad GMO (all GMOs): We changed some stuff, tested this shit on one of our own labs for 2 months, own the patent to this shit and if you play our game long enough we'll have a fucking monopoly on a lifeform
It's literally foss vs prorpietary but in genetics, up to public auditing of the security risks except they are health risks here.
>>51951472
>would you let scientists genetically alter your child
Of course.
>common sense tells us that making PERMANENT alterations to human DNA could make catastrophic changes to humans that can never be erased
common sense tells us that making PERMANENT alterations to human DNA could prevent diseases/defects to humans that can never be erased
>>51951502
Why would anyone spread an inedible crop? Are you under the impression that the well educated scientists doing GMO research just go "This looks good enough, no need to do any actual testing" before they send something to the market?
Do you think the farmers just replace all their crops without doing any of their own research?
Bear in mind that farmers are typically well educated people these days. They know that one bad harvest could ruin them financially, so extensive research is vital to their survival.
>>51951561
>It's not possible to ruin DNA like you are assuming.
Ive already given you an example, they have generically altered pigs that are so fat they cant walk, you are just a bunch of Monsanto shills who want all proper scientific restrains on genetic research removed so you can do anything to food crops/cattle you want. The public is too stupid to see whats going to happen, its only a matter of time till all our food crops and cattle are so altered that we can never return to the original
>>51951600
>Related question: If you modify your children to be genetically superior, are they still your children?
I think so. They share most of my genes, just the shitty ones are improved.
>>51951638
I share most of your genes. I'm not your family.
>>51950718
>There have been tons of studies and they've been on the market for over a decade now. If they were bad, we'd know.
My fucking sides.
We don't even know which of the ancestral compounds we ingest daily increase cancer risks.
>>51951631
>Ive already given you an example, they have generically altered pigs that are so fat they cant walk
That isn't ruining DNA. That is a result of those pigs being bred specifically for slaughter and thus to maximize their profits. There is nothing "wrong" with their DNA. They are still perfectly capable of breeding from a biological standpoint. May not physically be able to do so, but their sperm could inseminate a female pig and result in viable offspring.
Like I said, you don't understand genetics.
>>51951502
>inedible
>crop
You really are thick as shit
>>51951600
Yes.
>>51951655
>I share most of your genes. I'm not your family.
Obviously I was referring to shit like facial features, hair color, intelligence, etc.
Don't be an idiot.
>>51951436
>Monsanto sued farmers and took down their harvest for using seeds that came from the very fruits/vegetables they grew,
Go look at any of the other seed breeders, the ones that don't sell GMOs. Seed replanting like that is against the terms of use.
>which means the farmers would be forced to buy Monsanto seeds every single season,
Wat. The farmers are free to buy and use any other seeds. They're free to burn the Monsanto crops and replace them with alternative, organic crops at a catastrophically bad time if they feel like it.
>and the harvest would be terminal.
What the fuck do you mean "terminal"
its because of the rise of healthy eating in the past few years with food being labeled as organic, gluten free, etc. food corporations are making money off this craze when non-gmos are just as healthy to eat and cheaper. For the most part its a fad that idiot "health" nuts are falling for
>>51951631
I hate to scare you, but our foods have been modified so much that they are very far from "the original."
Those bananas you see in the grocery store do not occur naturally. The cows you see on farms didn't look like that 20,000 years ago either.
Because Rockefellers and other jews are behind it.
>>51951665
I point out that bad traits will permantently remain in genetic DNA when you altered humans/animals breed with normal ones. Youre repsonse is:
>They are still perfectly capable of breeding from a biological standpoint.
>Like I said, you don't understand genetics.
Im arguing with a shill, shills will do nothing but give idiotic and unrelated answers and say HUUR HUUR I won, you dont know anything
>>51951436
>We do notice that wild life actually avoids GMO foods, we don't know WHY yet or at least I do not know why, but naturally grown food is feasted upon while GMO food is nibbled, then quickly rejected. Sometimes big companies make small changes to the crop that will make the crop unliked by animals but still fit for human consumption.
Probably because the crops naturally produce pesticides while they are still growing that are washed off before you eat it.
>>51951631
>they have generically altered pigs that are so fat they cant walk
Humans have practised selective breeding for 1000 years.
>>51951679
>crop starts producing poison over time
>goes undetected
>is released to farmers
>whoops
If you can't see how it can't happen you're the one thick as shit.
>>51951693
The fact that you think it's OK to put terms of use ON FUCKING SEEDS is disgusting
>>51951693
Don't have time to tell you why you're retarded but I'll summarize it:
>Seed replanting isn't always against ToS
>by "forced" no one literally means forced, its simple, if the season is awfully dry or shit, and organic crops are dying left and right, a farmer might consider GMO, who else but Monsanto? *badum tsss*
>if you can't figure this one out, there is no hope
>>51951721
>I point out that bad traits will permantently remain in genetic DNA
Why do you believe this when you're discussing genetic modification? You'd hypothetically be capable of modifying these "bad genes" out.
>bad genes
And what's this all about anyway? You do understand that the pigs you were talking about were purposefully modified to be massive fatasses, right? It's not like it was some accident.
>>51951728
2000+ years, it's mentioned in Old Testament part of the Bible
>>51950937
>this, in a nutshell, Monsanto holds copyright on FOOD.
Patents are not copyright, moron. Patents expire.
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/539746/as-patents-expire-farmers-plant-generic-gmos/
>>51950952
Euro-luddites stuck in the past and scared of New World technology. Of course if they invented it it'd probably be a different story.
>>51951721
>I point out that bad traits will permantently remain in genetic DNA when you altered humans/animals breed with normal ones.
The problem is that the trait you claim is bad is actually a wonderful trait for the purpose of that animal: being slaughtered and butchered for human consumption. The bigger the animal, the more yield.
You seem to misunderstand the purpose of GMO which is to improve upon the original. There is no reason to return to the original when you have a superior version.
You don't understand genetics.
>>51951735
>>goes undetected
This doesn't happen.
>>51951735
>crop starts producing poison
How, lie over a single generation? How the fuck would that go undetected in the initial testing phase?
How would this crop magically replace all other on the planet?
Are you aware of the fact that apples produce cyanide?
>>51951358
>>51951472
>it's unnatural!! :(
Newsflash buddy, people have practiced Eugenics for thousands of years (animal domestication) and it's worked great.
>>51951806
Money is a big motivator. They might cut corners.
>This doesn't happen
is incredibly naive thing to say when talking about corporations that want profit.
>>51951811
they're already producing poison naturally to deter insects.
>>51951735
Oh are we doing "implausible scenarios" now?
Okay, here's one:
>You catch a stray gamma ray from the sun
>Start growing a shell
>feet shrivel up and you become a good swimmer
>nose and mouth turns to beak
>you fight evil doers
>you are a teenage mutant hero turtle
Ban the sun
>>51951337
So do you have any actual, specific criticism or just vague scaremongering?
>>51951836
>they're already producing poison naturally to deter insects.
[citation needed]
I am willing to bet you are talking about "roundup ready" crops which are just resistant to roundup. They do not bio synthesize it.
>>51951836
>is incredibly naive thing to say when talking about corporations that want profit.
Except there are plenty of regulations in place to prevent selling poison. Your argument boils down to
>the jews are gonna make a GMO that produces nerve gas in your stomach! you don't know that they won't! they want money!
Yeah, well when the Jews that do that get found out, and they will, they will go broke.
>>51951412
In general anyone whose primary descriptor is "mom" isn't worth paying attention to on anything other than anecdotal child-rearing.
>>51951781
>You seem to misunderstand the purpose of GMO which is to improve upon the original. There is no reason to return to the original when you have a superior version.
>You don't understand genetics.
pig too fat to walk, I dont understand genetics....right, even dog breeders will tell you that mutations can go badly wrong, dog breeders can always go back to the original because all the dog breeds of the world are only made out of about 30 mutations. There is no original to go back to with generically modified animals. But its useless arguing with a shill, we are just going to have to wait till permanent damage gets done to crops/livestock
>>51949795
GMOs have not provided the benefits they promised when they debuted in 1996.
The entire point of genetic modification is to alter the product in order to enforce a patent upon it. This is good for business.
Also, do you actually think they give a shit about the world?
>The Gubbermont put industrial grade fluoride in my water to protect muh teeth.
I'll stick with natural fluoride in my spring water and fluoride doesn't promote health...unless you believe botched American science.
The fucking USA is the largest country to distort scientific research. It's fucking sickening.
At least the children here only horny for science and tech toys, drunk on a desire for higher intellect, give themselves unknown problems inside their bodies to harm themselves. I like knowing this about morons such as them (you).
While those at Monsanto pull wool over the eyes of non-intuitive, ignorant Americans, other countries are improving the science of organic agriculture.
Also, this thread was created by a shill with ulterior motives you dumb /g/ babies.
You people on this board are embarrassing, desu senpai.
>>51951860
http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/agri_biotechnology/breeding_aims/147.pest_resistant_crops.html
>>51951872
Jezus christ go back to /pol/
>>51951860
>I am willing to bet you are talking about "roundup ready" crops which are just resistant to roundup.
Roundup is for weeds, not pests. Some GMOs do produce insecticides naturally.
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/32220/title/GM-Crops-Offer-Natural-Pest-Control/
I can find more if you give me some time.
I can at least understand opposition to nuclear power. It's shown itself to be an excellent and safe technology, but there are some risks. The fear is understandable even though it's unreasonable.
But anyone who opposes GMOs has to be brain dead. Like, Creationist levels of brain dead.
>>51951900
>pig too fat to walk, I dont understand genetics....right
I am really not sure why you keep saying this. You do understand that that's intentional, right?
>There is no original to go back to with generically modified animals
How do you think genetically modified animals come into existence? They don't grow them in a tube. They modify a fertilized egg and stick it in the womb of a female.
>>51951900
>pig too fat to walk, I dont understand genetics....right, even dog breeders will tell you that mutations can go badly wrong
Ignoring the rest of your post because pigs meant to be killed and eaten are not the same as dogs that are meant to run around and act like dogs.
You're the only shill here.
>>51951912
>the children here only horny for science and tech toys, drunk on a desire for higher intellect
>>51951900
>implying fat pigs are a bad thing
>implying any dog breed lives a long time
No you don't understand genetics. Yes, there are some dog breeds that are poorly breeded and suffer from serious health problems, but there are plenty of dogs that are specifically bred for certain purposes and excel at it. For example, German Shepards make top notch police dogs.
>>51951955
>German Shepards make top notch police dogs.
Really bad example bro
>>51951912
Holy shit, a real tinfoil hatter. Never thought I would actually see one of these nowadays.
>>51951912
>The entire point of genetic modification is to alter the product in order to enforce a patent upon it. This is good for business.
Yup it's all for greed. Not like we gave a bunch of GMO rice to starving vitamin deficient Africans just because we felt bad.
Nope. Never happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice
>>51951974
Since you're on /g/ I can assume you likely don't have a facebook account.
Facebook is full of them.
>>51951969
What's your point? German Shepards have some health problems, but they live an average life span for dogs of their size. And they are god-tier working dogs. Eugenics works.
>>51951955
>but there are plenty of dogs that are specifically bred for certain purposes and excel at it. For example, German Shepards make top notch police dogs.
>dogs bred with a sloping back purely for looks
http://www.assisianimalhealth.com/blog/2013/08/top-3-german-shepherd-joint-and-hip-problems/
>>51951974
normal people are mostly tinfoil hatters if you weren't aware
they just don't speak about it publicly
>>51951872
>there are plenty of regulations in place to prevent selling poison
They only stop corporations from selling blatantly deadly poison. If whatever you sell takes X years to increase cancer risk by Y percent you're free to go.
>>51952011
Are you dumb? Those specifically show-bred dogs.
>>51952018
>normal people are mostly tinfoil hatters
Oh my fucking god, how high are you?
>>51952031
>They only stop corporations from selling blatantly deadly poison. If whatever you sell takes X years to increase cancer risk by Y percent you're free to go.
If you're worried about cancer you should just kill yourself right now because it's an inevitability. You WILL get cancer if you live long enough. Everything you eat likely raises your risk for cancer. Another .2% will not make a difference.
>>51951935
>We understand nuclear energy completely since it has been around over 50 decades
>We don't know shit about genetically modified things and their long term effects on health, as well as each case being particular depending on what they changed
>Obviously you'd be a madman to be suspicious
Are you dense? Or a Monsanshill?
>>51949855
I mostly agree with you, but the other aspect of "playing god" with crops is that if there is a failure with a single preferred crop (think evolving insects and diseases), then the starving thing is made worse by the lack of crop diversity.
>>51952069
>Everything you eat likely raises your risk for cancer.
That's not really true. Some things do, but not most foods.
I'm a hypocrite because I support nuclear power but the thought of being near one kind of makes me uneasy
>>51952045
The german shepherd is falling out of popularity with good reason dude.
The hip and shoulder issues are very real. They also became easily scared dogs lately.
Again, not a good example for your argument.
>>51952045
He seems to think that breeding in traits that cause health problems intentionally = Accidentally breeding in bad traits
>>51952069
>The ultimate disease that kills everyone in the long run, inescapable death
>If you're trying to avoid it for as long as possible you're an idiot!
What the fuck am I reading.
>>51952118
Nobody wants to live next to a fucking power plant. That's normal.
>>51952092
>That's not really true. Some things do, but not most foods.
http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/generalinformationaboutcarcinogens/known-and-probable-human-carcinogens
Scroll down and take a wild guess at how much of this shit you're exposed to on a daily basis. It will probably be an underestimate.
Fucking everything is a carcinogen.
In theory they aren't that bad (expect for the fact that they eliminate any genetic diversity).
My biggest gripe with them is the fact that crops are being genetically modified to be more resistant to pesticides and insecticides. I don't want cancer from eating produce that's fucking lame.
>monsanto shills pls go
>>51950665
that almost made me cry
>>51952126
Cancer is just your own mortality speaking, your body is not perfect.
It is inevitable.
>>51951921
>>51951915
Huh, interesting. This isn't a food crop and this isn't "poison" in the way you would lead people to believe though. It's a specific protein that is toxic to a certain species of pest.
I doubt that you worry about dying from theobromine poisoning, but you wouldn't let your dog eat a chocolate bar.
>>51952136
>My biggest gripe with them is the fact that crops are being genetically modified to be more resistant to pesticides and insecticides. I don't want cancer from eating produce that's fucking lame.
Most crops that produce insecticides are producing Bt toxin which is inert in humans. No crop actually synthesizes or is resistant to DDT or something similar.
>>51952119
>The german shepherd is falling out of popularity with good reason dude.
Literally one of the most popular dogs in the world. What the fuck are you talking about.
>The hip and shoulder issues are very real. They also became easily scared dogs lately.
Mostly happens to retarded people who bred show dogs because they have a dumb sense of aesthetics. The police obviously don't use those, and most people don't own them.
Again, they live like 10 years which is completely normal for a dog their size. An example of a poorly-bred dog breed would be the bulldog.
>>51952133
Not a single person has ever died from emissions from a nuclear plant in the US on record. That is a pretty good track record. LFTR sound like a better idea than current designs though.
>>51952074
Please explain how selectively changing a couple genes at a time in a lab (followed by a years of testing by the company and government) will somehow cause mystery cancer but traditional crossbreeding won't.
>>51952160
I'm going to die trying.
>>51952135
I'm sorry but what? Most of these things you aren't really exposed to that much assuming you're not working some job that exposes you to them. Hell, even sunlight is a nonissue since most people stay indoors all day.
>>51952237
It may modify the plant in a way that it uptakes more radioactive isotopes from the soil. This is why cigarettes cause cancer. They uptake polonium-210. Various fruits and vegetables pick up other isotopes as well.
>>51952237
/not the person quoted
natural breeding has its own failsafes, bad mutations wont be allowed because breeds that are too different cant be fertile. with genetic alterations there is no limits, any DNA from any species plant or animal can be spliced into any plant or animal species
>>51952277
>This is why cigarettes cause cancer. They uptake polonium-210
lol
>>51952237
It's actually about the pesticides they use mostly.
>>51952296
it's fucking true dude, tobacco is full of carcinogens, even unprocessed. look up torquemada 71
>>51952296
okay, should have said tobacco plants uptake polonium-210.
>>51952316
>it's fucking true dude, tobacco is full of carcinogens, even unprocessed. look up torquemada 71
Cigarettes cause cancer for a shit ton of reasons, but polonium uptake and exposure is not one of them.
>>51952076
Monocultures don't really have anything to do with GMOs except that using GMOs is comparatively easy vs more labor intensive organics. Shortsighted people will always get fucked if they cut corners.
>>51952118
That's just lingering culturally-induced paranoia. The more educated you are about the topic the less you fear. I lived a couple blocks away from a university research reactor and never had a second of doubt since I understand how they operate and are regulated.
>>51952339
>Not making a tobacco fueled nuclear plant
>>51952339
There is a lot of research literature on this subject. Look it up.
>>51952369
There is a lot of research literature on flat earth and astrology as well.
>>51952369
>There is a lot of research literature on this subject. Look it up.
Burden of proof is on you, buddy. Even if what you're saying is true, the formaldehyde and shit you smoke in a cigarette is much more carcinogenic than the micro-amounts of polonium you're ingesting.
>>51952366
I work for a company that does work with nuclear plants in the US, I've been on site before, I just don't particularly like being that close
I'm a nervous person though so
>>51952366
>never had a second of doubt since I understand how they operate and are regulated.
You're incredibly delusional and I hope one day you get burned hard for your trust.
>>51952288
>bad mutations wont be allowed
lolwut. This is definitely wrong. The earlier example of bulldogs is good in this situation.
>>51952369
Not him but you're the one making the claim, you should be the one to provide the evidence. I happen to know that you're right but until you provide evidence you're the idiot in this discussion.
>>51952400
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tobacco
>Radioactive carcinogens
>see references
>>51952457
I don't think I'm the only idiot in this discussion.
>>51952185
Inert for humans, but what about the (symbiotic) bacteria inside us?
>>51950642
And within 10 minutes you'd have the most violent civil war you could imagine. People are individuals who need space and freedom. They're not bees who can be crammed in a small wooden crate. You sound like a clueless moron who once saw a video of some smartass calculating that one human needs exactly 0.5m2 of space and that all of them can fit into a tiny place in America, therefore the world isn't overcrowded. But that's bullshit and if you had a brain you'd realize this.
The world IS overpopulated. There are way too many worthless subhumans that shouldn't be allowed to live.
>>51952445
>thinks delusional people should be nuked for trusting. liberals...
>>51952466
>less than 1 pico curie of radiation
Well you can take solace in the fact that you were right and I was wrong, but like I said, the carcinogenic effects of polonium is massively dwarfed by the other shit in cigarettes.
Besides, who the fuck smokes cigarettes in 2015, besides niggers? Everyone I know who used to smoke cigarettes is now using e-cigs or vaporizers.
>>51951899
That's just the name of her blog. Maybe you should try actually reading it because it has a lot of good information about agriculture.
>>51952527
I hate being physically around too many human beings as well, but it's really not that bad unless you live in one of those absurdly human-dense cities.
>>51952531
>thinks delusional people and liberals aren't the same group
>>51952559
>is now using e-cigs or vaporizers.
Enjoy you're cancer
>>51952587
>Enjoy you're cancer
Nicotine itself doesn't cause cancer, and I haven't seen any evidence linking glycerol vapor to cancer.
Feel free to prove otherwise.
>>51950836
Yeah right. Renewables are only good when you have enough capacity to store the excess energy somewhere.
Germany, the most hippie country on Earth, is right now shutting down most of their nuclear power plants to prove to the world how superior renewable energy sources are. Yet it doesn't really do anything. It's being shilled hard so hippies and clueless housewives can feel safe, but in reality we're right now BUILDING coal power plants with huge CO2 emissions and completely retarded energy efficiency so we can replace the nuclear fission plants which served as base load power plants and peak load power plants. Top fucking lel this country is retarded as shit and so are you.
I want to see those same fucking hippies eat a non gmo banana and smile the entire time. A yellow goo that's mostly large peppercorns. See how they like that shit
>>51952559
So, you do realize that the dosage is right up against your lung tissue long-term right? I'm not black. I still smoke cigarettes.
>>51952642
bon appetit
>>51951086
>Because the people of Europe have more control over their governments and their governments listen to the peoples' desires more often than the American government does.
You don't live in Europe dude. Politicians here are blatantly selling out their own people to multiculturalism and criminal megacorporations (sometimes based in the USA even). The EU is a massive tyrannical organisation whose leadership has never been approved by the European peoples.
>>51952445
You just don't get relative risk, do you?
>>51952639
>CO2 emissions
That's the least of the problems, all the shit that coal plants vent into the air is hazardous for health.
It amazes me that people are still against nuclear plants when they are widely understood and easy to keep safe.
Then again I remember that news report of the guys who pierced the reactor containment area to hang an extinguisher.
>>51952672
Holy fuck is that what bananas used to look like?
How the fuck did we turn them into this??
Hell, the worst we could do with bananas, nuclear power, tobacco, CO2, and GMO is kill of humanity. Seems worth the risk to me. I like eating good and having a warm house and being able to drive everywhere.
>>51951693
You have an apple. You plant it. An apple tree grows. This one produces new apples. Which can in turn be planted or eaten.
You have a potato. You plant it. It grows a potato plant which grows more potatoes. You can harvest them and eat them, or you can use the potatoes, re-bury them and have new plants for next year.
Monsanto seeds are not able to reproduce after one year. They become infertile after a single season. So you plant a Monsanto potato, it grows, it carries some potatoes. You HAVE to eat them because they won't grow again next season. Now you don't have plants/seeds for next season and you must buy new seeds from Monsanto, just as they want you to.
This is the real sin. And they ARE playing God, both over nature and over human rights. It's highly immoral, unnatural, dangerous and criminal.
And as a farmer that doesn't want to grow Monsanto shit, they will threaten and blackmail you and basically force you to grow their modified trash instead to keep you dependent on their products.
>>51952520
Good thing bacteria aren't insects then.
>>51952762
>Monsanto seeds are not able to reproduce after one year.
Yes they are. The terminator gene, as it was labelled in the media, was scrapped long ago. Never even made it to market.
Just goes to show how much you know about this.
>>51952193
German shepherds are being replaced by German police with Belgian Malinois because they are better and have less breeding-related problems.
If you get rid of natural selection and replace it with an artificial one, you will have an inferior creature in the long-run.
