>mfw there are probably a lot of final year CS students who haven't ever programmed a microcontroller
Scary
well, was it a fun course?
>>51909946
CS should be renamed to codemonkey training
Because that's what it mainly is, hell even electronics students can program better than CS apes
>>51909983
Well obviously, electronics is all the important stuff that lies between pure hardware and pure software.
>>51909983
this is true, uni graduate here
>>51909946
I'm sorry, what does programming a microcontroller have to do with computer science?
>>51909946
And they are all American
American CS programs that aren't MIT seem to be complete and utter shit for some reason.
>>51910251
Not much
We had a digital circuits to lead onto the following two logic courses
>>51909946
>mfw there are probably a lot of final year biology students who don't know how to manufacture a microscope
>>51909946
That's not what CS is about, idiot.
in our uni there's a mandatory course for CS where you program an FPGA
µCs are for plebs
>>51909983
What if I have electronic studies and majored on CS??
programming is gay anyway
>>51909983
>CS is for code monkeys!
>brags about supposed programming skills
Err, how does focusing on the theoretical CS instead of programming a microcontroller to flash a led make them code monkeys?
>>51909983
CE here
The approach here goes both ways, we have more theoretical classes, including maths like algebra, discrete math and calculus, but we also have classes on hardware, physics (breadboards, logic gates and Arduino).
Lot of retards get filtered by either of these. Generally, a person that finishes the course, gets out with pretty good grasp of everything, companies seem to love students from here.
From what I hear, fuck CS though, I'm glad CE is a thing, it's the best of both worlds for me.
>>51910339
our uni has a non mandatory course where we had to design and implement a computer, including PCB layout, designing an unconventional processor from the bottom up on an FPGA and do all the soldering and shit.
Insane course, best thing I ever did at uni, FPGAs are fucking awesome
>>51909946
>I programmed a micro-controller
l337
Computer Science is mostly concerned with algorithms, and is highly abstracted from the hardware. Working on a microcontroller might be useful for an elective (after all, computer science has a wide range of applications), but it doesn't really need to be placed in the core curriculum.
>>51909946
it's with programming as it is with drawing, some people get it and are good at it. Some people suck no matter how hard they try
>>51910251
>>51910325
>>51910576
>>51910959
Knowing how microcontrollers work and being able to program one is a sort of important skill for a CS grad. It's not necessary to be a whiz at microcontrollers, but having basic experience of this hardware-software boundary is very important, you won't believe how much you'll learn about software AND hardware when you try to run something as simple as a motor using a micro or FPGA
Chinese and Indians will never agree with our western learning philosophy, but hand on approach is the best way to learn
>>51911460
>you won't believe how much you'll learn about software AND hardware when you try to run something as simple as a motor using a micro
Done that.
Didn't really learn anything new.
>or FPGA
That's a huge difference.
>>51910632
>calling this bullshit science
LOL. no. just no.
>>51911781
I didn't choose the name
>>51911814
but you gave some scumbag and their scam school money who will only perpetuate this horseshit.
>>51912123
No, in the country I studied CS, the name isn't retarded
>>51909946
In our uni that was the first course. Quite many failed though.
>>51909946
EE here. My university had a final year module split between CS and EE departments.
The EE side was about PICs, we had a lab simulating and engine spark control circuit.
It took the CS chucklefucks at least twice as long to complete because they have no fucking idea how to interface with hardware, at all.
They even split us into smaller groups (so the demonstrators dont get overwhelmed by 30 people asking questions at the same time) and let the CS guys go last, just to make sure there were no problems with the hardware.
We were literally the testing stage, because they didn't think the CS guys knew enough about the hardware to even understand if something was broken or not.
Oh we also had a RTOS lab, which really should have played to their strengths. Everyone in EE was done in 30 minutes, the earliest any CS guys finished was 2 hours.
>'I'm a software engineer'
Every time
>>51912408
first course of CS always has a large dropout, we had to make some sdl shit in C. Like bouncing balls on the screen and draw a teapot (not ask me why...). I think only 60% could take the exam, and 20% of those failed the exam.
My uni hasn't even started and I've created numerous projects with Arduino and Netduino
>>51912590
Same here
Im using atmegas though, really fun to play around
>>51909946
I"m working for a web company making 6 figs. I don't need to know how to play around with microcontrollers like you autists.
>>51912921
The guy who knows how to play with microcontrollers is probably being paid 7 figures and one of his work is running on your computer
what about a clock senpai?
>>51913147
the people "running computers" at companies at just IT janitors who issue new laptops and devices periodically, and you're delusional if you think they make more than devs
>>51909946
Only garbage bumfucknowhere schoolkids, because it's mandatory to do during the second year anywhere else.
>>51913221
Embedded devs make more than web devs
>>51913221
They do make more than devs, fuckloads more. As in 2 to 3x more.
That doesn't mean they're more than janitors, but it's just the truth of the world.
>>51909946
I programmed one in high school.
But then again the school was all about automatisation.
>Germany
>>51913291
>But then again the school was all about automatisation.
You mean some technisches Gymnasium?
>>51913347
Höhere Berufsfachschule mit Schwerpunkt Automatisierungstechnik & Mechatronik
Haben ein Fach "Programmierung und Einsatz von Microcontrollern"
>>51913365
Sollte das nicht eher als 'tade/vocational school' übersetzt werden, anstatt 'high school'?
>>51913428
Könnte sein, ist jedoch zum erwerb des Fachabiturs, nicht wie eine Berufsschule zur Ausbildung
>>51913291
>>51913347
>>51913365
>>51913428
>>51913472
THIS IS AN AMERICAN WEBSITE. SPEAK AMERICAN.
>>51909946
How much can you earn programming that shit?
Can you become millionaire without working for anyone doing that?
>>51913523
>add a few components to an arduino
>do a kickstarter
>get rich
>>51913505
burger burger big black cock burger
>>51909946
You cannot program microcontrollers in meme.js' brah.
>>51913505
What language do Americans speak?
Computer Science uses the scientific method to troubleshoot. It is a science.
>>51913613
I think something like that actually exists
EE students from my university once created a web application for internal use, to handle class registration. One of those tards actually implemented an IP based authentication mechanism and the whole thing collapsed once people tried to login from withing a NAT.
Just knowing muh low level C programming and hardware wont make you a compotent software developer.
I studied cs abroad in Germany and they were heavily focused on hardware automation, it was weird.
>automating train schedules
>automating dispersion and volume of gas in a confined area
>automating incinerator temperatures for maximum efficiency
>>51913716
Sounds like it was a solid education, with many real-world applications. Employers love that.
>>51913655
If something like that exists, I'm jumping off my roof, this world is beyond mad
>>51913671
Knowing software+hardware makes your a competent engineer, just one of them makes you incomplete, and as >>51913734 said, employers are suckers for real world application
>>51913221
cobol dev make more $ then embedded devs
>>51913804
Just until the company finally gets fed up and pays a 5$ per day Indian dev to rewrite the whole 1991 code in C#.
Then the cobol dev can kiss his job goodbye
>>51909983
>Basically an applied maths degree with programming on the side to implement all the mathematics that are taught
>Somehow code monkey school because there's programming courses in there
Comp. Eng. myself, but to label CS as "code monkey school" is ether a sign of being retarded or completely clueless.
If you really want to see a code monkey degree go have a look at Software Engineering programs because those are pretty much all programming courses with next to nothing on hardware or the math behind computing.
>>51913837
>replacing Cobol applications
Its old rancid and critical code nobody will ever want to touch again. Cobol will die when the last company that uses cobol is bankrupt.
>>51913883
>If you really want to see a code monkey degree go have a look at Software Engineering programs
What?
SE has most of the CS courses
>>51913837
>Using $5/hour street shitter labor to re-implement business critical systems
Company managers generally don't have a reputation as being the most clever people out there, but they're not stupid enough to farm out the re-implementation of systems where the failure of said system would lead to their business grinding to a complete halt to the lowest bidder.
>>51913924
Yes, most of the programming courses, but very little of the math and hardware courses.
I've seen the curriculums on those things and they're practically nothing in relation to math or hardware. We're talking pretty about Code Monkeying: The University/College Degree here.
>>51913989
>Yes, most of the programming courses,
CS doesn't even have "programming courses" in my uni.
>>51914010
Then you probably don't know what courses CS actually has or are intentionally defining programming courses in a way to exclude all non-math courses CS students take.
>>51913955
Bro you really overestimate managers
In most businesses, managers are on the same level or very slightly above as the people they are managing. Their selling point is just their charisma, beyond that they're everyday joes
>>51910371
CE? We call it CMPE here.
Respect man. Just got my iron ring the other day.
>>51914034
The only course you have to take, and have to actually program in it, is the intro course.
Well okay Computer Architecture I&II had some programming too, but isn't that the stuff your CE focuses on?
>>51909946
What do microcontrollers have to do with computer science?
>>51913792
>If something like that exists, I'm jumping off my roof, this world is beyond mad
http://www.espruino.com/
Hope you have a trampoline.
>>51910632
>Computer Science is mostly concerned with algorithms
No, computer science is concerned with the study of computation.
Saying computer science is about algorithms is like saying biology is about statistics.
>>51913627
American, duh.
>>51909983
In France, computer science is juste called informatic.
>>51914157
>using an ARM chip
>programming in a script that's broken for anything except http work
>running an interpreter on top of ARM CPU that interprets JavaScript to do stuff that an 8 bit microcontroller does fine
Why, they could have just used a 50¢ AVR for that, why use a 32 bit ARM CPU?
This is beyond my understanding
>>51909946
>3rd year CS
>Just spent an entire semester writing assembly code for a microcontroller
It was pretty fun actually. I'd get my own and do some sort of project with it but I'm having a hard time thinking of something genuinely useful, or at least something that's not making shit way harder than it needs to be just to include a microcontroller
>>51914229
Wouldn't it be something gay like »informatique«?
Anyway, Informatik master race
>>51914244
I don't know.
Hmm, how about a backflip?
Computer Science and Software Engineering are completely separate things.
Lots of universities like to refer to SE as CS, but that doesn't make it accurate.
>>51914244
maybe it can do ethernet, CAN, and shit
32-bit arms are often used for that
>>51914291
Not in my uni.
SE takes the same exact math and theoratical CS courses - as in they are actually in the same lectures with me.
Maybe it gets more different in Master, I wouldn't know.
>>51914157
>year is 2040
>go to office
>hipstersexual web dev is telling boss our company's server is too slow
>it's only a 128 GB RAM Xeon 1024 core machine
>it can't even handle a program made in hipster.js, running on top of interpreter.js, which is running on top of OS.js, which is running on kernel.js all of which is running on an interpreter running on a VM which is made in js itself
>>51909983
Have friends in CS, can confirm for code monkeys
>>51910371
>tfw no CE in my country
doing CS now, and thank god its not as shitty as american universities (no java no intro to programming just straight into data structures and algorithm complexities, lots of theory on languages, algorithms, the hardware side its just 4 courses and they're really good but its just not enough imo), we did program microcontrollers tho.
>>51910339
>Stop liking what I don't like
Coding in assembly for a microcontroller is what made a hardware guy like myself understand programming.
>>51914493
Sorry, but creating and programming your own simple MIPS processor teaches a lot more.
>>51911747
If you use high level programming languages of course you didn't learn anything new. Coding in C for microcontrollers is like coding in python on x86. Even a retard could do it.
>>51914564
How so?
Keep in mind I already programmed small dumb shit in x86 assembly and for SPIM
>>51914564
Not that guy but
I program micros in C and I have to say, it helped me learn a lot and get comfortable with different registers, bitwise operations, bitmasks and a lot of cool stuff. I am now transitioning to assembly so that I can save even more space and write longer programs.
>>51914538
Again, different things for different use cases. You don't use a microcontroller by itself when you study or use it in the real world. You connect it to stuff.
>>51914781
How did that make you understand programming?
>>51914842
At first, I liked the physicality of it and the fact that I could learn something useful, like controlling a motor. In the long term, it made me understand how the subsystems of a processor work to create actual components, like counters, ALUs and signal generators.
I know you guys will call me a retard, but it's much more rewarding to light up an LED as a first little program than to just output "hello world" în the console.
>>51915034
>I know you guys will call me a retard, but it's much more rewarding to light up an LED as a first little program than to just output "hello world" în the console.
I can relate too, the physicality of electronics is what makes the whole process so rewarding, printing a "hello world" just doesn't compare to blinking an LED as first project
>>51915034
But you have that too when you make your own processor with an FPGA
>>51915094
Agree, FPGAs are very fun to play around with
>>51909946
Because CS is not about programming microcontrollers, Rajesh.
>if you haven't programmed a microcontroller, you are a condemonkey
You are one retarded faggot who knows nothing about programming, Rajesh
>>51910371
>CE
How does it feel no one will ever hire you over an Electrical Engineer or a Computer Scientist?
>>51915094
Yes, but again, they're different things for different use cases. And FPGAs are not a good starting point for everyone. Especially when you're talking about designing your own processor.
If you're an engineer you'll start with understanding physical components, then processors, then FPGAs. If you're a programmer you'll go the other way around.
>>51909946
>mfw there are computer science students who actually do real coding
Fucking pleb, CS is about solving abstract problems using abstract algorithms running on abstract turing machines. Coding is as blue collar as it gets, no better than plumbing or gardening.
>>51914564
this. finally somebody who understands. So many retards think they are smarter just because they program in assembly or C.
>>51915215
Then why are so many CS grads hired in programming positions?
>mfw there are probably a lot of final year CE students who don't even know how to create a rotation matrix for a non-cartesian basis.
Scary
>>51912900
cool clock ahmed
>>51910234
ur dum
>>51914446
ur friends r dum
>>51915271
What do you think are CE grads doing after graduation?
Damn, even Math majors are doing programming after graduation.
There is too much demand for programmers
>>51915276
Really, I do Code Monkeyineering and even I know that.
>>51915271
Because retards thought CS is about being a code macaque, there's a degree just for you - it's called software engineering/development.
>Programming micro-controllers
>Programming at all
True. I see that CE majors have classes that are literally just playing with pieces of electronics and doing blue-collared work, because it "teaches them about stuff". In my opinion, any job that requires even the smallest physical effort is a monkey job for monkey slaves.
That is why I see CE majors, EE majors, ME majors and all engineers as monkeys. They all have to do monkey labs doing trivial monkey job to get results. Meanwhile, I, the pure mathematics and CS master race, can stay at home reading proofs from my book and working practice problems while creating algorithms.
And you, CE majors, are the biggest monkeys. You have to do the most physical effort. Makes sense for the kind of people who literally are just Machine code Monkeys.
>>51915324
Most CE students don't have to learn basic Linear Algebra, it's embarrassing
>>51915368
It was all good before you mentioned pure mathematics. Pure is a meme.
It's a shame really. You could just remove the "pure" and it would be 10/10 reply. Disappointed
>>51915368
This is the most blatant bait I have seen in this thread so far
>>51915368
>pure math
What do you make encryptions or something? I find that very hard to believe
>>51909946
>mfw there are probably a lot of final year CS students who haven't ever implemented an encryption algorithm just because they can
Ftfy, that's the actually scary part
>>51909946
kek
>>51910371
>only 3 math courses.
>>51912900
>Enjoying being like Ahmed
>>51914257
informatica meester ras
I did a Network Computing BSc and my degree didn't eve touch on IO models, programming sockets or what 'blocking' was. I had to self teach all of it.
Got trained in some signal processing stuff so it ain't all bad.
>>51910371
> Arduino
Holy shit are you fucking serious? That's the 'microcontrollers' that everyone here is talking about?
Jesus Christ I'm glad I'm in CS. I get to actually work on interesting problems.
>>51915565
No we normal folks use microcontrollers without nanny tier bootloaders to change our diapers
>>51915449
>Hurr i find it hard to believe that a Pure Mathematics grad student does pure mathematics
Are you retarded? Oh wait, you're probably engineer. Same thing.
>>51915565
Arduinos were invented so CS students could actually program at hardware level without breaking their minds.
Besides, learning how to write efficient code that can fit into 2kB of SRAM is much too hard for the meme.js and java codemonkeys
ITT: anons who think CS is programming backed by anons who go to a shitty community college/uni for "CS".
>>51915663
You chose a meme thing to study mate.
>MUH PIECE OF PAPER IS BETTER THAN YOUR PIECE OF PAPER BECAUSE I SAID SO
Oh look, another one of these threads.
>inb4 butthurt CSfag detected
>>51915480
A Caesar cypher can be done in less than 50 lines, you're not special, kid.
>>51915683
>Mathematics
>meme
WE HAVE OURSELVES AN ENGINEER HERE WHO GOT A C IN CALC I, BOYS
How does it feel that you wouldn't even exist without us?
>>51915706
Anon
Ciphering is babby tier encryption, asymmetric ciphers is all where it's at
BTW a Caesar cipher can be done in less than 10 lines, no biggie
>>51915734
idiot, I was talking about pure mathematics. I study mathematics myself.
>there are people who haven't reinvented the wheel for the 900th time
>hurr durr
99% of you CS faggots just re-skin database query results in a browser, desktop program, or mobile app anyways.
>>51909983
Cs people are code monkeys but electronics graduates are literally jobless.
kek
.
.
.
KEK
How about you faggots get some people skills and nail a job interview,so you can actually get a job and move out of your moms basement?
>>51915706
> caesar cypher
> cypher
> encryption
Truly these ECE students are very intelligent.
>>51915773
Easy job, $$$
I sense jealousy
Oh so your an Engineering major? I'm a Computer Science major. I have a near eidetic memory, a digit span of 20 meaning I can memorize pretty much any password/formula/screenplay on the spot, great visualization abilities (I can draw the human body in pretty much any angle and perspective without reference), 99.98% percentile typing speed, 2390 on the SAT without studying (800 SAT math by 8th grade), great talent in writing (won national history, creative writing and journalism contests in high school) and a 99.9% percentile performance in pretty much everything else (diamond 2 promos in LoL).
If you don't have comparable mental abilities, I highly doubt your "Engineering major" is even close to being as tough as Computer Science.
>>51915818
back to /sci
>>51915368
ME student here and I can confirm we are monkeys. There is at least one project every year where you have to physically make some shit in a workshop, which sucks. The bachelor is pretty wide however, and I can continue with a master in CS for example.
>>51915818
Well memed son, I'm proud of you.
>>51913716
>Germany
>automating incinerator temperatures for maximum efficiency
topkek
>>51915839
>not being proud of making something physically instead of making a program that displays hello world
For shame
How to get good grades, lads.
>>51915902
Go to an Ivy League school. You'll get all As without even having to show up to class or take any finals.
>>51915706
>Caesar cipher
>thinks it's an encryption
>spelling cipher as cypher
What are you doing anon?
>>51915913
I thought ivy league people get good grades because they are smart and would get good grades anywhere.
>>51915920
It is an encryption and "cipher" is the latin spelling, dumb fuck
>>51914105
At my university CS undergrads take courses two mandatory programming courses, data structures (which you actually have to implement), operating systems (which includes programming) and a programming language paradigms course (which has you implement them in Haskell and Prolog).
>>51915950
s/smart/rich
>>51915950
Lol no, Ivy leagues give good grades because they want to keep their reputation, but the truth is they're accepting barely above average minorities now.
>>51913716
>Germany
>automating train schedules
>automating dispersion and volume of gas in a confined area
>automating incinerator temperatures for maximum efficiency
So when is the next holocaust gonna start off?
>>51915839
>physically make some shit in a workshop
>sucks
why are you studying engineering
isn't making shit in workshops going to be your job or something
>>51915978
He's an engineer, not a Chinese factory worker or technician.
>>51909983
depends on how shitty your university is
>>51915973
Is that why MIT's in the shitter?
>>51913989
My SE program has 7 math courses, physics, and hardware courses.
>>51915978
Only if you work for a small company
>>51913575
That's better.
>>51916026
>7 math courses
Why even live? Do you at least apply for extracurricular courses?
If your program isn't ABET accredited don't even bother applying for a job.
http://main.abet.org/aps/Accreditedprogramsearch.aspx
>>51915888
>being proud for what we make
ok behold for the rice portionizer 3000
>>51909946
I've taken part in proglang standardization and haven't ever touched a microcontroller nor written any ASM.
CS is a wide spectrum, you can become an expert in one part of it while knowing jack shit about another part of it.
>>51910251
Nothing at all. I studied cs after my mathematics undergrad ( I'm Aussie fwiw) and it had nothing to do with programming.
We do have degrees in software engineering though. Maybe that's closer to what a lot of people think CS is.
>>51915818
And yet the best use of your time atm is shitposting on 4chan.
>>51916098
My CS program required Calc 1-3, Linear Algebra and Differential Equations, Signals and Systems, 2 physics classes, and a chemistry class. All my upper division courses are pretty much all math, some combination of calculus, probability, statistics, and linear algebra. They were more about how to make computers solve X problem instead of how to make computers. The only class where you could get by with only high school level math was databases and OSes. Even Programming Languages had a bunch of abstract algebra stuff in it.
I'm a CS/Math major and want to learn more about embedded development, but my CE buddies all tell me to stay away.
Essentially, their perspective says:
>code on hardware level
>shit breaks
>logic is correct
>shit is still broken
>why
>google for answers
>find multiple forum posts on said issue
>"I have this issue"
>multiple replies all stating "I, too, have this issue"
>no solutions
>no one knows why it's broken
I'm still interested.
Also, tfw no beaglebone black serial support under El Capitan because HoRNDIS is still broken af
>>51917702
Almost exactly what I'm taking. these retards don't even know what CS is at a good Uni
>>51909946
We program FPGAs in the first semester
>>51909946
University grads know Java and Visual C++. They like to say that their skills apply to any language but they can't into anything like Forth or APL, that's for fucking sure.
So like the skill level of your average 14 year old circa 1998.
Trying to hire an under-30 in an industrial IT setting, really pathetic shit tier manlets have even asked "Why not just run Linux?" when faced with an assembly line made 25 years ago.
No we run Forth here junior.
>>51913627
Freedom
Now git
>>51918204
Is Linux even really worth a shit for industrial applications? I've only ever seen it and UNIX used in the semiconductor industry to drive certain kinds of machines.
>>51913837
>cobol
>1991
Most cobol programs were made in the 70s and early 80s
And it still works fine until a manager decides that it is "too outdated and has to be remade in a new language" for some retarded reason
>>51913837
lol
>>51918357
>Is Linux even really worth a shit for industrial applications?
It's heavily used but this is often the result of having no expertise or even experience with any other solution.
It's popular also in part because the customer is always adding features to something in the design stage, and Linux being the giant fat bloated piece of shit that it is, it already has a bunch of shit built in that could be a pain on other architectures.
I won't touch the thing, I need something stable. If we have an application for a UNIX box it's always FreeBSD.
But yeah, Linux is for some reason crammed into everything these days.
>tfw almost went to PennState for Software Engineering degree
>a literal code monkey degree
Whew, dodged the bullet lads
>>51910371
>calculus in uni
Oh America
>>51909946
>mfw there are definitely a lot of final year CS students who haven't ever taken an internship.
>>51920042
>freebsd
>stable
choose one!
Top fucking cuck!
>>51920184
>choose one!
FreeBSD is stable as fuck, you just need the right version.
I have hardware from the mid-80s working with the original proprietary drivers on Freebsd 6 even today and it works great.
Nice bait tho.
>>51920147
Yea that's me but I'm a junior. I had a dream I'd one day change the world but I can't even get a fucking job. Probably gonna kill myself this world is too becoming too much
>>51918357
Yeah Linux is used in a lot of embedded devices.
Your router most likely runs Linux. The thing is, Linux is ridiculously flexible, you can compile it for any obscure architecture you choose and it will run on it, that's what makes it ideal for embedded applications.
