Novice programmer here, getting into the swing of things. Currently I use Sublime Text 2(which isn't even a IDE), but should I move on to Vim/Emacs? And which one should I use?
Apologies for bad photo also. Can't gimp.
If you're just getting started with programming then don't bother with power editors yet. They'd just slow you down. I'm not familiar with Sublime but anything that lets you build and run your software with one action (click/keybind) is fine.
Vim and Emacs are memes, don't fall for them
>>51852463
So it's just hype then?
>>51852491
They have their nice features, but yeah, it's just idiots thinking that they are leet because they use comand line shit from 40 years ago, you are far better off using a modern IDE, specially if you are a beginner
>>51852118
Text editors are fine for hello world tier stuff. You'd probably be fine.
Nothing wrong with an IDE though.
>>51852658
I'd be careful with this trap, you should still know a bit more than just "hit button, compile, it works".
Know what you're ide is doing.
I'm not saying to do everything by hand, and completely avoid your ide, but if you need to, be comfortable running make, javac, gcc, and doing some minor edits in an editor.
You WILL need to at some point ssh into something that has no IDEs, just vim, maybe emacs. (And maybe nano and co)
Oh, and git.
Learn git from the terminal.
Emacs has magit, which is awesome, for the trivial stuff like staging, and commiting, but going past that I still use the terminal.
Also, last job I worked, no IDEs, simply because it was impractical.
Large C++ codebase, unix, in house build system.
It was text editors all the way.
Paid well though, and was a fun experience.
For the most part though, an editor like emacs IS an IDE, you just grab the language specific plug in when you work in it.
For most languages, it'll wind up as advanced as the IDE would be.
C++/Java are a bit of exceptions with IDE advancedness vs text editors.
You should also know one just for editing shit.
They are called editors for a reason, and as a programmer, you're going to be editing a lot of config/non programming stuff, and IDEs are pretty bad for the task.
Learn vim especially, I use emacs evil, so I can be competent at vim when I need to.
An editor will be universal, once you've learned vim/emacs, it will be there useful forever, on every platform, for every language.
We don't have an IDE I can say that about.
So, use what's best for the language.
I love working in emacs, but if I'm doing java, it'll be an IDE and emacs side by side.
If I'm doing python, or some other language where text editor tooling is on par with the IDE, then I'll stay in my editor, rather than learning a new tool that does the same thing.
TLDR;
Learn at least basic vim, play with emacs if you want, and use an IDE if there are really good ones for the language.
Java, C#...
>>51853218
Also, developing elisp in emacs is plain fun.
>>51853218
Hell, I've been using Javac exclusively, so I suppose I'm on the right track then.
>>51852118
Use Atom with power-mode. It's so satisfying. Any while it's activate make sure this is playing on constant loop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3472Q6kvg0
>>51852118
>he fell for the webdev meme sublime text meme
>wanting to switch to shit vim/emacs
>not just using fucking eclipse from the start
Ayyyy
>>51853249
Yeah, learn (basic) some makefiles also.
Don't be in that situation where you need to compile something outside an IDE, and have no idea where to start.
The terminal, even if it is "command line shit from 40 years ago", is everywhere, you will need to use it, and you don't want to be learning it on the job.
(Plus, for a lot of things, it's really pretty nice.
Make good use of tab complete!)
Use what you want, have passing knowledge of everything.
Then decide what to use based on what you want, how good each editor/IDE meshes into your environment, etc.
But knowing version control, and unix are something a lot of students don't know, and will give you a good heads up. (At least at my uni, which was a heavy microsoft one.)
Hell, I once got into a 20 minute or so conversation about git at the career fair with an intel recruiter.
>>51853218
Oh yeah you should definitely learn about compiler flags and how to write a makefile, and maybe even your basic Vim commands, but I wouldn't recommend anyone using Vim or Emacs as their main development environment in this day and age, specially a beginner
>>51853354
Eh, I like it, and it depends a lot on the language.
If you haven't paid for sublime i would say definitely move to either vim or emacs. Vim is the more useful of the two to learn as pretty much every linux system will have vi installed but you can give each a try and see which you like. Both vim and emacs have much more range for customization and growth as you discover what you need or want in an editor.
If you use sublime text free and have to constantly close that popup window i automatically lose all respect for you
>>51853826
Also i should add i use emacs. I mostly use it because it's just what i started with and didn't/don't feel like learning vim. I'm also not a huge fan of the modes thing so emacs' straight key combo stuff feels better for me (even if the combos can get unwieldy)
>>51852491
Vim and Emacs are text editors that let you do mundane things with very few keypresses. If that sounds like something you want, great, learn one of them.
IDEs, on the other hand, will automatically generate code stubs for you, will parse your code and let you ctrl+click on a variable or class name to automatically be taken to its declaration, will display library hints when calling functions, will warn you of syntax errors and misspelled variable names, can automatically extract chunks of code to new functions or variables, let you click certain lines of code to add breakpoints to a debugger, which then runs graphically over your source code, displaying your entire stack trace with all variables currently in scope and their values.
Don't let /g/ fool you into the no-IDE meme. IDEs will speed up development more than any other tool you can use. There is no single IDE for every language, so you'll have to seek out different ones, but Jetbrains makes terrific IDEs for most popular languages.
>>51853894
you realize you can do all those things with vim or emacs and you don't have to use a terrible ui. When i toured google almost all the engineers computers had vim and some with emacs open. At my last job most of the engineers also used vim with some using emacs. A large number of software developers use vim or emacs.
>>51853894
Emacs can do most of that for most languages.
For example, C++, you get flycheck, great gdb intergration, including clicking to add break points, and highlighting the line being run, auto-complete, yassnippet for stubs.
There are various tagging systems, gnuglobal works pretty well for jumping to declaration and uses, but C++ is damn hard to parse, eclipse doesn't have this perfect either.
Extracting chunks into new functions is something that I'm not aware of any plugin for, yes.
Now, java support for text editors is pretty poor, so it really depends a lot on the language.
Text editors are especially competitive with dynamic languages, where it becomes a lot harder to auto-refactor, which is what they are weakest at.
At least know what you are criticizing, instead of just jumping on, text editor, can't do anything but edit text, no language integration.
You're no worse than someone saying that vim is going to be on par with some Java IDE for integration with the language.
Text editors can do most of an IDEs features, how close they come depends a lot on the language, on some, they are on par, for others, far behind. (Cough cough, java.)
http://beust.com/weblog/2006/10/01/dynamic-language-refactoring-ide-pick-one/
Sometimes, those advanced features that give an IDE an edge just aren't possible with the language.
>i3 uses the alt-key for shit
>emacs also uses the alt-key for shit
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>51854046
> how do i remap keys, guys?
You're dealing with some of the most configurable software ever created. Find a way.
Hint: nobody uses Caps Lock for shit.
>>51854616
>Capslock
>not the Windows key
>>51854666
> Not knowing emacs uses "Super" all the time
git gud.
https://anders.unix.se/2015/12/10/screenshots-from-developers--2002-vs.-2015/
>>51854701
>Stallman
I don’t know how to make a screenshot, because I normally use my computer in text-mode. I have X and GNOME installed, but I use them only occasionally.
Classic
Sublime text 2 is great. You can code quickly with auto completion and snippets, even make your own snippets, and then lint it and tidy it up with packages. Download packages from within the program too. Vim is cool but forget your elitism for a second and go for sublime and speed up your workflow. Cracking the license is only a Google search away.
>>51852658
>implying most people only use their editor from the command line
4/10
Don't use an IDE
>>51852658
...but it is 1337
Don't you know that hipster street cred and internet points mean everything?
>>51853249
>>51853353
While you should still learn Makefiles, if you're mostly a Java developer you should learn Gradle or Ant. They are both used more in industry nowadays for Java.
>>51852118
It's hard for Sublime people to understand the power that Emacs/Vim offer. I use Emacs because that's what I learned on. I'd also recommend using Emacs in Evil mode if you're into Vim. Emacs' power in extensions simply isn't paralleled anywhere.
>>51859625
>tfw my sublime is shitting itself
I've been thinking of converting to vim since I have to use it quite a lot anyway.
I can't get away from IDEs completely because java but for all things not java I need something that just works.
>>51854046
Just use the windows/super key for i3. Emacs doesn't use that (by default).
>>51852118
If you are starting to programm, you should use something simple (Geany for Linux, Notepad++ for Win) first.
While Vim and Emacs are powerful tools, they take some time to learn and t.b.h. I never found them worth the effort.
Emacs is for people that are also hobby programmers. Elisp is easy to program in, so it's easy for you to define your own IDE in a fraction of the time it would take to write a basic text editor from scratch. Don't fall for the "is an OS" meme. Vim also has a mail reader, and IRC client, and so on - just as optional downloads because it's still made for the past where a program has to fit on a single floppy.
Emacs can do everything vim can do and more, and is easier to program, so there's no reason to touch vim except for living in 1991.
Emacs fact: You don't (and probably shouldn't) learn "emacs". Define your own keys, at least. The defaults date back to a godawful hack on top of a vim-like editor called teco in real-time mode.
