What exactly is the difference between 220-240V voltage system and 100-120V system and why are there two standards (four, if the 50/60Hz one counts)?
Because the Jews
>>51834298
My understanding is that 240V is objectively better, but because there was so much infrastructure built in certain areas for 110, replacing all the stuff would have been cost prohibitive.
I really can't say anything else on the matter.
Volts are kg * m^2 * A^-1 * s^-3. Think of it as how much "electricity" is flowing through the wires.
Hertz are 1/s. Think of it as how often your alternating current "alternates."
Because our time system is based off 60 seconds, 60Hz works best for us. As for voltage, lower is technically safer, but YOU probably want a higher number.
>>51834298
Why are so many countries so munted?
Is this an artist's impression of our world? Look at the North Island of New Zealand. It doesn't look anything like that.
>>51834298
Higher voltage means lower current, and a lower current reduces the amount of energy lost as heat. However, higher voltages are more dangerous, and this is one of the main reasons of why ameritards use 110v.
>>51834782
And why majority of countries use 50Hz instead of 60Hz?
240V is more dangerous for electricians to work with compared to 120V. Also 240V is more likely to cause housefires than 120V. Finally 240V requires thinner cables and lower AMP circuit breakers compared to 120V.
>flick switch on back of psu
>plug it in
>???
>profit
>>51835081
TL;DR amerifags are pussies
>>51835121
So are the bongs. They have crazy strict electrical codes.
>>51835136
at least bongs use 220V like a real man
>>51835081
>More dangerous
Why don't they just turn the power off like regular people?
Also it will give them more of a shock but amperage kills you not volts.
>>51835161
because amerifag electricianss are pussies
>>51835161
It's the wattage that kills you.
>>51835121
No, we're smarter. 120V means we don't have to super idiot-proof our electrical outlets and if one curcuit breaker trips it means just a small section of the house will have no electricity. 120V is safer and easier to worth with even though you have to spend a little more on wiring and curicuit breakers.
>What exactly is the difference between 220-240V voltage system and 100-120V system
The voltage, pretty much. Basically legacies of the very early days of electric power before standards were a thing. Things like computer power supplies are more efficient at higher input voltages.
>and why are there two standards (four, if the 50/60Hz one counts)?
Again, legacy stuff. The 50/60hz comes down to the kind of equipment the power companies run, too.
>>51835179
Volts kill you, you morons.
>>51835195
>120V
Enjoy your lost energy, pleb.
>>51835195
But you stated that 240V uses requires thinner wires so you save money.
>>51835179
>>51835209
https://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~p616/safety/fatal_current.html
>>51835195
So, you're saying that Amerifags are bunch of idiots because they can't keep their kids off their power cords?
>>51835195
>120V means we don't have to super idiot-proof our electrical outlets and if one curcuit breaker trips it means just a small section of the house will have no electricity.
An extended Earth pin is not super idiot proofing outlets and we have circuit breakers too you know.
>>51835161
>Why don't they just turn the power off like regular people?
They do but sometimes people fuck up and turn off the wrong circuit breaker and get shocked. Turning off all of the electricity in the house is also a hassle especially at night.
>Also it will give them more of a shock but amperage kills you not volts.
True but your skin has resistance to electricity. It becomes less effective at repelling electricity at 240V compared to 120V (ie 240V can shock you "more") and therefore 240V is more likely to kill you.
..and we're still talking about voltages, not plug standards.
>>51835234
Are you seriously implying britbongistan doesn't have this problem as well?
>>51835253
>They do but sometimes people fuck up and turn off the wrong circuit breaker and get shocked.
How idiotic do people need to be to not test that the power is actually cut?
>plug lamp into socket, is there power?
>turn on light, is there power?
It sounds like the real problem is assumption. I flipped the circuit breaker so power SHOULD be off.
That's a bad mentality to work with.
>>51835272
I don't remember we've ever used Type G..
220V*A=Wattage
110V*2A=Wattage
You need 2 tiems the current if you use 110V, so you need thicker cables becasue a thinner one would generate a lot of heat, and higher amp levels are way more dangerous if you get a discharge.
>>51835295
we're talking about 'average consumer' levels of stupid so pretty fucking stupid here.
yes catering to that demographic is a pain in the ass for the competent people of the world but it has to be done.
>>51835233
True but at the same time you get a higher chance of an electrical fires and is more dangerous for electricians to work with thus increasing repair/installation costs. I would still recommend 120V for electrical outlets because they are safer and easier to work with.
>>51835319
if you happen to make contact with a 110v or 240v system it doesn't matter what the load is you're now grounding the circuit and ever available electron is going to be flying to you at the speed of late.
>>51835331
>>51835253
>>51835195
>>51835081
>>51834436
tripfags -- filtered
>>51835295
>he actually believes most people aren't weapons grade retarded
>>51835081
america doesnt run 120 because 240 is 'more dangerous' you fucking retard.
holy shit the fact people are actually trying to discuss that as a real reason shows how fucking garbage this board is
>>51835321
I thought he was talking about electricians though, why would an average consumer cut their circuit breaker to attack a power outlet or something. That's asking for trouble as it is.
And electricians should know better. They have devices that can detect live wires through walls now for fucks sake.
>>51835360
Did you really have to announce that? It's like if I announced when a turd hit the toilet bowl water.
>>51835363
Please, I drive. I'm fully aware that people are, in general, completely retarded.
My hope, though, is that people are somewhat clued up in the occupation in which they work.
>>51835390
if average joe has a simple light switch crack or over wise shit the bed he's going to go on youtube and watch some 3 minute video on how to replace it.
now that video will almost certain have step 1 being deenergize the circuit but how often do you follow step 1 of instructions?
>>51835372
Yes it is you mongrel. Houses actually receive two 120 volts nerves so technically we do get 240 volts. The reason we don't make our electrical outlets 240 volts is because it would require more safety for the average american dumb ass since 240v is more likely to kill them. That and most things run only on 120 volts in burgerland.
>>51835428
>but how often do you follow step 1 of instructions?
If it is important to the task at hand, every time.
I thought people were aware that electricity was dangerous. We stop our kids sticking knives in power outlets after all.
>>51835442
>That and most things run only on 120 volts in burgerland.
Surely, you see why they are designed that way for burgerland.
It wasn't the device that came first...
this board is full of retards, instead of arguing using arguments that you come up with you could google the reason why
>The DC and AC Power network was first built and developed in America(USA) and it widened to other parts with their own customisation. The DC Power system was first invented by Edison and it worked really well with his incandescent bulbs lighting up cities. When Westinghouse started up AC power distribution it irked Edison and started a war between the power system companies. They took to the streets especially Edison criticizing the AC power on the issues related to safety. He started Electrocuting Animals from AC so to change the perception of the people on the highly advantageous AC.
But when Tesla came up with the Highly efficient Poly phase induction machines the war was won by AC distributors and it suddenly assumed popularity all across the world.
Hence, during the starting stage, the AC system developers were very cautious on safety aspect due to the bitter war between AC and DC resulting in reducing the AC voltage as minimum as possible to 110 V for the Power supply in USA, striking between the increased voltages to reduce Electrical losses and decreasing the same to increase safety levels.
System operating at 230 V incur lesser loses as compared to the 110 V system if the network elements are same. But as America was wealthy and innovating it optimising the power networks it didn't bother much on the Losses of distribution. But Europeans who developed their own AC systems on 230V and it used it in its colonies in Asia thereby spreading the 230 V use.
>>51835331
Shocking, a tripfag with no clue.
Who would have guessed it?
>>51835448
no, we had to invent a entire new 'tamper proof' outlet just to get kids to stop dying from knives in outlets.
>>51835492
What's he wrong about? It makes sense to me but I guess that's probably because I don't know too much about electricity myself.
>>51835442
no, when the infrastructure was built different countries and locations used different equipment. that is why in places like japan you will have different standards for different parts of country.
nice try though, you at least made the attempt to look smart
>>51834298
why do yurotards use 50hz?
shit is dumb.. 60hz is the standard for videos/vidya
>>51835522
Not him but is the 240 volts being safer part true? Is 240 volts less likely to kill you?
>>51835562
more likely*
>>51835522
>that is why in places like japan you will have different standards for different parts of country.
So those 2 nukes did that much damage? wow.
>>51835555
>60Hz pleb
144Hz masterrace
>>51835555
50Hz is standard for videos here.
It's just that back in the 90s, european manufacturers decided to add 60Hz support to all their 50Hz equipment. Yankee manufacturers never did it the other way. Therefore if you want to be able to show stuff in the USA without conversion you need to use 60Hz.
The knowledge of electricity in this thread is atrocious.
Fucking retards, you should get banned from technology forever.
>>51835512
That's because you can't be there to supervise 100% of the time.
>>51835626
Welcome to neo-/g/ - Smartphones and consumerism general
>>51835626
Then help us.
>>51835626
Implying you don't have a flawed knowledge of electricity as well.
>>51835616
>It's just that back in the 90s, european manufacturers decided to add 60Hz support to all their 50Hz equipment. Yankee manufacturers never did it the other way. Therefore if you want to be able to show stuff in the USA without conversion you need to use 60Hz.
except nobody in the US cares to watch yuro trash so why even bother
also PC monitors have always been 60hz
>Talking about electricity
>these dumbfucks talking about PC monitors
American education, everyone.
>>51835764
59.94005994fps master race, amirite?
this is the true rate of ntsc tv due to the hack they used to get color support into it
>>51835650
Read a book or use a search engine, if you can.
>>51835736
No you dipshit. I'm an EE
>>51835819
I'm Santa Claus and you won't be getting any presents for lying on the Internet.
>>51835819
Dam anon, you come on /g/ expecting everyone to have college degrees. I think you come in here with the wrong mindset. Most of us are either in college or just average joes with only HS diplomas.
>>51835764
>except nobody in the US cares to watch yuro trash so why even bother
Well, until the digital switch, most yankee sets didn't get the right colours, that and pulldown and drop-frame-timecode kludges are all as a result of your inferior standards.
Also >muh nationalism. That's entirely your loss.
>also PC monitors have always been 60hz
This isn't true. My first (ST) was 50Hz, and my most recent is 75Hz.
>>51835616
>Yankee manufacturers never did it the other way
Yeah, because if they did the only thing on US tv would be yodelling for 'muh 1/32th germans'.
>>51835899
Hell, if you bring in CRT monitors then the Hz ranges differ hugely.
You could run lower resolutions at higher refresh rates. I usually ran 72Hz.
>>51835161
the kikes wanted to sell more transformer, thicker cables and build more stations.
there is no benefit in 120V
Why does Japan have multiple but similar power system in place?
>>51836014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Japan#National_grid
>>51835999
Nice trips but it's true 120v is safer. Otherwise britfags wouldn't be so god damn strict about outlet safety. I mean fuck, they even have a motherfucking fuse in each outlet.
>>51836032
God forbid a country be strict with an invisible force that can kill.
I'd wager than even if they were using an inferior 120v, that they would be just as strict as a matter of fucking principal.
>>51836032
They have fuses in the plugs, not the outlets.
>>51835353
Ground a mains line and you'll drain every last drop of electricity in the world!
>>51835626
>voltage kills you not amperage, anon!
:')
>>51836056
No they wouldn't. 120v has a voltage low enough that not many people have died from it especially 1-2 second shocks. 240v can more easily bypass the skin's resistance and fucking stop your heart even if you touch it for a second. This is why we don't have millions of kids dying in the US from stabbing an outlet with a knife.
>>51836168
>bypass the skin's resistance
>>51836199
*skin's electrical resistance
sorry typo
>>51835121
In Ausfailia, only a licensed electrician can change the light bulbs in a place of business
That's what the law says but hardly anyone adheres to it. They made me change the fluorescent tubes all the time and i'm a dumbshit high school dropout
>>51836168
>>51836199
Dielectric breakdown (the fact that at a high enough voltage, you actually lower the electrical resistance of the skin) happens at much higher voltage (over 500 iirc)
>>51836168
We have known since WWII that 10mA can manipulate muscles, 30mA can damage muscles.
And if you create bad enough conditions, 50 volts can kill you.
This is why all European houses are protected at 30mA and use a PE wire to ensure that if something the user plugs in, the circuit will break.
By making the resistance of the PE wire small, the maximum voltage you can receive is limited.
Unless we are talking about fork in socket and in those cases Darwin wins.
>>51836317
Doesn't that generally have to do with time conducting?
I mean, given enough time, be it a second or 10 seconds (ded), the resistance drops enough that the difference is negligible to health anyway.
>>51836317
Is that why electric fences tend to be such high voltages? Because it will overcome the resistance of thicker skinned animals to actually shock them?
>>51834298
It depends if you consider the saving of cost of wiring is more important than the risk o f electrocution.
Remember, Tesla and Edison had a very public fight about the "dangers" of AC versus DC. Bringing in a power distribution system with a lethal voltage probably wasn't an option for Westinghouse. So he went for the "safe" 110-120V standard.
Meanwhile, other countries went 220-240V because the currents would be halved for the same power. Losses would be far less and considerable savings could be made by using a thinner conductor.
Higher voltages are inherently more efficient in power distribution; that's why you see those signs about KVs on transmission lines.
Lower voltages are safer, but less efficient.
>>51836361
I have not been electrocuted therefore 240V is safe.
>>51836319
not same anon but in general touching a 120v line is less likely to kill you than touching a 240v line.
>>51836388
No it just hurts less.
>>51836340
I don't know of the voltage of electric fences.
>>51836331
It don't as far as I know, you actually have a voltage threshold (breakdown voltage) and if you go over it you change the behavior of the insulator.
To be taken with a grain of salt, electricity is not my main study domain, but I'm a electronic / informatic engineering student.
>>51836274
>Work for .au government
>Need to replace a power supply in a PC
>Required to get a licensed electrician to unplug the power cable from the wall first
>Replace power supply
>Two day wait until electrician returns to plug PC in to wall
>>51836409
240v IS more likely to kill you, retard. The body only has so much electrical resistance.
>>51836388
>>51836409
It is also safer since you're more or less taking half as much current through your body and damages are directly dependant on the amperage and the exposure time.
There are other components but if you take the same frequency (50/60 is comparable) then twice the amperage is twice the danger
I just toured Vietnam. They don't actually have a plug standard, so wall outlets usually use this universal sort of port that fits plugs from most neighbouring countries.
The result is that nothing actually fits a wall outlet properly. It's entirely common to push a plug into a wall and then watch it just fall back out from the weight of the cable.
When you walk around, you see plugs hanging out at 45 degree angles, with exposed metal connectors, often unshielded from rain.
I have no idea how anyone in that country survives.
>>51836471
like this fucking thing?
I've touched 240v a few times, it's fine as long as you don't have a weak heart like most amerifats.
based RCD's
>>51836032
They are so obsessed with safety because of Ring Circuits.
Anything over 100VAC is pretty unsafe, and 230V circuits are less likely to catch fire because lower currents.
>>51836557
I read a lot of comments saying that 230 carried a higher risk of fire. Wouldn't that be true in cases of unchecked ground or arc faults, or are those too rare to matter significantly?
>>51834298
100-127V is master race. Our body can't handle much more than that anyway.
>>51836592
>our body can't handle much more
WELL WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE?
>>51836586
230/240 is more likely to cause fires because the higher voltage generates more sparks and still carry a lot of current (15-20). If you short circuit a 240v 20 amp connection, you are going to see a shitload of sparks. A 120v 20 amp connection will still send sparks flying everywhere but not as many.
>>51834957
It's just a different projection.
>>51836503
Take those top two holes, and merge them with the bottom, so that the bottom holes could take flat plugs, flat angled plugs, and round plugs. And then you have the Vietnamese outlet.
>>51836679
I actually have one of those contraption used to charge the very pc I use to shit post (adapter) , and of course my charger is angled at about 50°
>>51835486
>reducing the AC voltage as minimum as possible to 110 V for the Power supply in USA,
also, old cables used cloth for insulation before plastic became a common place (pic related). Rubber was too expensive.
I don't know how effective or safe they were but I wouldn't touch a live 110V wire through this kind of insulation, a 220 V wire could potentially be more of a hazard.
>>51836826
>we've only had electricity for about 100 years
>we've only had a safe way of transmitting electricity for about 50 years
>we've only had technology for about 10,000 years
this thread is now reminding me we are still a bunch of dumbshit proto-humans and our ancestors are going to be ashamed of us
>>51836549
I've taken 400V jolts from hand to hand(ie.right through the heart) several times and the worst I ever got was minor heart arrhythmia. Also got a nasty 3kV jolt once, shit made me go to a hospital just to check if my heart's still functioning right(protip: electric shock might fuck your heart up without you even realizing it).
That doesn't mean you can't die from 230V though, there's a lot of different variables when it comes to electric shocks.
What does it matter when most equipment runs the AC through a rectifier or a switching power supply.
>>51835081
>americans think 220-240v is dangerous.
>They don't even have an earth pin or power switch
Eat shit and die.
Also, in my country. An electrician will TURN THE ELECTRICITY OFF. Before working on the wires. How is that dangerous? Or don't you amerifats have circuit breakers either?
We also have sensible shielding on our wires, and electrical products need to be examined and approved before they can be legally sold. In summary, all your points are invalid.
>>51837702
>Also, in my country. An electrician will TURN THE ELECTRICITY OFF
I guess American electricians like electrocuting themselves.
>>51835272
Italy has never used Type G plug
>>51835081
I was raised in a 220v country. Have (accidentally) shocked myself with it couple times. Still healthy...
>>51835442
It's interesting to see how much stuff we have now that runs on 12v or 5v. Wonder if at some point a type of USB port will become a common wall outlet socket instead of having dozens of wall warts in each house.
>>51837775
it's the amps that kill
>>51835512
so now they die because they have access to knives?
>>51835616
It's the video standard because it's the electrical standard, we used the electricity to sync the frame
>>51835065
Imperialism.
Just check the history on why Japan has both 50 and 60Hz.
No Child Left Behind - The thread.
>>51836471
When I travel to the developing world, I'm amazed at the shitty wiring I see everywhere. Here's the shower head in a hostel I visited. There's a heating element built into the shower head itself which apparently saves on heat losses through the pipes and requires only a single water pipe to the shower but that wiring in a shower? Glad I only stayed their one night.
Houses in america = wood = easy to burn = low voltage
Houses in yurop = concrete = doesnt burn easily = high voltage
>>51837823
actually it's the amps times (milli)seconds
>>51837823
not true, it's a combination of both, a tazer gun can kill you, a car battery can't.
>>51834782
it's not the voltage that kills you, but the current
>>51837994
>implying amps aren't the heat generator and therefore Americans have more amps
>>51835081
That's like saying shooting yourself with a .38 it's safer that shooting yourself with a 9mm.
>>51838220
Do Americans have more amps?
I thought they were mostly wired for 10A.
>>51837823
>>51838210
If amps killed then electrostatic shock would be fatal. It's not amps, but energy. ESD is very high voltage, and therefore very high current, but over in a few nanoseconds and therefore harmless.
>>51838247
Lower voltage = more amps to transfer the same energy.
>>51838197
that was very well explained, thanks for this example!
>>51838256
I know but that doesn't mean they are actually wired for higher amps.
Like, my home could be set up for 240V 10A, but that just means I can draw ~2400W on a circuit, not that I need to be.
At 110V you'd still be getting 1100W on a 10A circuit, depending how the house is divided that could be plenty as the only thing that would draw that much would be a heater (or your ballin gaymen rig).
>>51838247
most americans live in trailers so 10A is overkill
>>51838289
Heating an oven still takes a couple thousand watts, a high-end computer takes 700+ watts and so on. You still need to transfer the same amount of energy, 110v or 240v.
>>51838413
>electric oven not connected to three-phase electric power
shiggy
>>51838478
>needing a special connector for anything that needs more than 1000W
I bet you don't have an electric kettle either.
>>51838413
So, sure, your kitchen may be on a 20A circuit, but then the rest of your house could be on 10A circuits. Ovens tend to have a distinct, dedicated socket to them as well.
>>51835195
>120V is safer and easier to worth with
Wtf are you talking about?
120 is neither safer nor easier to use.
Why would it be safer? All houses are fitted with circuit breakers, so the amperes that you get if you shock yourself (and thus the enrgy, if you multiply that by the time of the shock duration) are only limited by the circuit breaker.
Having 50, 100 or 1000 volts is gonna do the same damage to you, as long as you use the same breaker and the amperes you receive exceed the breaker's limit.
Regarding the OP question,
>why do some countries use 240V?
It's more efficient, with less losses.
>then why do others use 110V?
legacy infrastructure.
The same reason UK electrical networks have the retarded, unsafe circular topology.
>>51835517
All sorts of things make sense when you have no clue
The earth is expanding.
>>51837823
Well I held one end with a hand and the other end accidentally touched my other hand. I don't know about my body's resistance but there should have been I = 240/R amp of current going through my body momentarily before I was thrown back
>>51837984
nope nope nope
>>51834298
50/60Hz depends on the speed the generator turns at the power station. As in f= (p*n)/60 where n is the speed of the generator(rpm) and p is the number of poles (1south and one north pole pair).
The reason the US has 60hz is because you need less iron? (english?) to make a magnetic field in the stato of the engine => your engines are more compact than our (european) 50hz electric motors.
Higher voltages can use thinner wires (and lower amps) to traznsmit the same power ( P = U*I) so i guess the us has more high to low voltage transformers (high voltage to 110V) to counter the voltage drop.
Why do you ask this every week?
>>51835081
>Also 240V is more likely to cause housefires
That's not a problem unless you have a cardboard house like in the unites states of poormerica
>>51835486
>invented by Edison
holy shit my sides
The choice of 100 between 240 doesn't really matter. Historical accidents and subsequent interoperability concerns for home electronics.
It's just inside the house, the grid uses higher voltages as necessary.
>>51835819
Are EEs as fucking useless and retarded as MEs?
I recently helped build a tire press that some fresh out of college mechanical engineer designed. The old ones only did one tire at a time, while this one does three. THREE! Which means it's now a three man job, and they're gonna have to work in sync. Plus you know how companies are. Why pay three guys to do something when you can lay one off, and tell the other two to be thankful it wasn't them, so they'll work extra hard? Just looking at the thing I could tell that someone is going to be killed by it. If everyone is lucky it's just going to get wiped out three times as fast, and then it'll be scrapped, and I can go back to repairing the old presses when they frequently get wiped out.
The engineer gave us really nice, and detailed drawings though. That's rare these days. Too bad the dimensions were wrong and we ended up having to do a lot of guessing...yea, someone is gonna be killed by this stupid bullshit.
>>51838248
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you know what current and voltage are? You could be zapped by a 15kV current, but it wouldn't do shit to you if it had very, very low amperage.
>>51837850
Not really.
It used to be important (we're talking pre-colour here) because it needed to match the lights (otherwise you'd get a strobing pattern because studio lights flickered badly like fluorescents), but video has typically been timed by a reference clock in analogue television for as long as I can research back. The power frequency was never stable enough.
This can be seen in places like Japan or Jamaica where 60Hz television was used even though it contradicts with local power standards (which in some areas was 50Hz).
lol get on my eastern european level, i have unfiltered, ungrounded 240v electricity straight from the wind-up well outside my farm. i can overclock my computer to 6ghz thanks to this.
>>51836663
nope
>>51839616
pussy
>>51838646
what do you expect from stupid tripfags?
>>51841099
I don't think vomit chan is really stupid. Just cocky and thinks he knows everything.
>>51834298
TL;DR: it's like Metric vs Imperial
>>51838248
Wtf mate
120V is "safer" if you stick a fork in the outlet. The downside is that to deliver the same amount of power, 120V mains requires higher currents and therefore thicker wire.
You might have noticed 120V wires definitely get warmer when you draw a lot of power, perhaps with vacuum cleaners and such. Never happens with 220/240.
Also the reason why the US has been steadily creeping the voltage up from 110 to 113, 115 and 117 and eventually 120. Reduces transmission loss on the power companies' part.
Besides, today's tech use switching power supplies so it really is trivial to accept an extremely wide range of voltages with minimal modifications
>>51834298
I think the reasons go way back to the first days electricity was being used. When there are very few electricity users around, you might not have to worry about DC vs. AC, but, when the user count increases due to the popularity of this new amazing phenomenon called ELECTRICITY, all of a sudden AC becomes pretty much necessary due to the average voltage being zero on the sine wave, which significantly improves DISTRIBUTION costs. Also, do not forget that, whether the houses are using 110V or 220V, the distribution of the electricity is still being done by using 100 KV (Kilo-volts, yes) to 600 KV, depending on the distance. So, the safety concern is possibly not that high in the list. Neither is the COST, since, one way or the other, there will be transformers converting 600KV down to 10KV with substations, and down to 110V in front of your house ... The economics only matter on that very last transformer. The rest of the distribution network is agnostic to the voltage in your house. There is also very minimal cost difference between a 110V vs. 220V transformer in front of your house ...
To run the same device with 110V vs. 220V, you need 2x thicker wires, but, the cost difference is negligible. You are not really changing the GRID, which is the 90% of the cost to the country ...
I would give my vote to "backwards compatibility" if I had to guess. It is almost like when INTEL introduces an x86 CPU architecture, and everything else they produce later has to be backwards compatible. US was the first one that invented electricity, and 110V AC somehow established itself as the standard. When you have 100000's of devices working with this voltage, you do not really want to tell everyone "Oh, so, we are changing the voltage next week to 220V, so, all of you have to buy a transformer" !
>>51841455
cont
Ok, if my theory was right, why is Europe pretty much strictly 220V ? I grew up with 220V, back in Turkey ... My answer is this : Electricity came to non-US countries a lot later than US. ... and when it came, the other countries had a chance to make a "fresh start" and not have to be backwards-compatible like the US. So, 220V was an economically more meaningful choice. There is really not too much safety difference between getting zapped by 110V or 220V !!! Besides, US widely uses 277VAC and 300V for industrial entities. And, for datacenters, 208V is pretty much standard. These are the voltages you obtain from a three-phase network when you gang-up multiple phases to feed devices. If safety was a concern, US couldn't even consider these.
>>51835093
i did this
psu fried lol
>>51841449
>Reduces transmission loss on the power companies' part.
What? Electric companies don't use 120 on power lines, they use at least 110kV on big lines and around 35kV on distribution lines (i.e. the transformer outside the house). Whatever loss there is due to 120 V usage is billed to the customer.
>Japan and Madagascar share the same system
Brothers from different mothers desu~~
>>51835060
Summary: Americans are retarded
>>51835195
>no, we're smarter
>even if we adopt the less efficient voltage
American culture: frivolously spend as much as you can, make shitty wood houses that catch fire easily and try to keep your retarded countrymen alive.
>>51835253
Holy fuck stop giving your worthless input, it's pretty obvious you don't know shit about electricity.
>>51841806
The problem is that american plugs arent worth shit when compared to eu/uk plugs. It's actually conievable to get shocked if you are being very careless, whereas with the schuko and UK plugs there is no chance of that happening.
>>51835136
Bong plugs are the best, especially when you step one one.
>>51841455
>When you have 100000's of devices working with this voltage, you do not really want to tell everyone "Oh, so, we are changing the voltage next week to 220V, so, all of you have to buy a transformer" !
at least in my country the company always supplies two 110 V phases so you can and usually DO use both 110 V (on regular stuff) and 220V (on mini-split air conditioners and machinery).
You're supposed to balance the load on both phases, for example using one for the 1st floor and the other for the 2nd floor. You could in theory wire your whole house with 220V since most stuff already can handle it. Many companies that use industrial machinery even have 220 V outlets. They're marked orange so people don't fry their shit by mistake.
>>51834298
220V/60Hz masterrace.
>>51841922
>those splices
cba to read whole thread so i'll just adress few points.
it's amperage that kills you, not voltage. BUT, if you connect yourself to power it'll be voltage and your internal+external resistance that determines current. so while amperage kills you, connecting to 240V will cause 2x higher current to flow through you.
in most cases it doesnt matter if it's 120 or 240V, unless you connect yourself directly into it (fork in left hand into phase, fork in right hand into neutral) for example, PLUS you'll have faulty safety devices (breakers + RCD, i hope you use RCD murricans). touching just phase shouldnt kill you, cause your internal resistance, resistance of your shoes, resistance of floor all adds up.
so yes, 120V is safer.
housefires - losses are equal to I^2 * R. so with 2x lower voltage you have 2x higher amperage to supply same power (cause P=U*I). therefore losses on 120V are 4 times higher compared to 240V, so generated heat is 4x higher. so 120V is more prone to cause housefires
>>51839484
You mean besides explode whatever device is in your hand and throw you against the wall? Current causes defibrillation but voltage slaps your shit. A high enough voltage could definitely kill you but most people don't work on high enough voltage that doesn't also have a high current.
>>51839510
It seems that is for both reason
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refresh_rate#Televisions
>>51841963
don't worry the metal case works as ground
I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but America does not use 110V to transfer power.
Most transmission grids operate on high voltage.
However, distribution grid in USA is different. It operates on medium voltage and leads directly to separate houses. Each house has its own transformer, that changes the voltage to 120V. The transformer is usually placed on the nearest electricity pole and looks like a cylinder.
In most countries using 220-240V, there is one transformer common to all houses in a district, usually in a form of a small booth. Homes do not have their own transformers.
>>51834298
>>51842358
Why is Brazil a rainbow?
>>51838210
/diy/ pls go
>>51842247
What the fuck? This has to be the most stupid shit I've read in a month.
>>51838788
>I believe everything I read on the Internet
>>51835060
>ameritards use 110v.
america is split phase so large loads are 220v
>>51835081
>240V is more dangerous
for a knowledgeable pro its all safe
>>51835149
bongs are 240v, eu is 220v
>>51835195
new eu db's have breakers per room now typically, socket safety is good
>>51835253
test for dead is step 2
>>51835331
>higher chance of an electrical fires
fire=heat=current, low voltage = high current.
>>51835486
dc is superior for line loss, ac has 0 crossing quench and transformer going for it. tesla a nigger.
>>51835512
knife is too big, teaspoon handle is more realistic
>>51835562
>Is 240 volts less likely to kill you
no
>>51835999
sounds right
>>51836032
fuse in plug is for current, not voltage. higher voltage is lower current. checkmate
>>51836132
>amperage
current
>>51836168
>millions of kids dying
nowhere does
>>51836274
>in a place of business
could be worse
>>51836340
also voltage drop losses
>>51836443
>amperage
current
>>51836549
>based RCD's
pain when you short n-e on an 'isolated' circuit and it trips. rcbo is the way forward.
>>51836592
electricity isn't meant for your body
>>51836663
sparks don't cause as many fires as current heating or aluminium wire topkek
>>51836826
>potentially
yes insulation and voltage are related. good for you, a non retard.
>>51836884
>heart arrhythmia
should have got that checked too dummy
>>51836884
>a lot of different variables
typical urban legend is a 9v multimeter can kill you if you pierce the skin. not sure if true
>>51837652
distribution loss = costs
>>51837702
not bad except tripcunt
>>51837786
no because losses
>>51838709
>The earth is expanding.
global warming
>>51841449
>stick a fork
what outlet yype is fork shaped?
>>51841724
>transformer outside the house
eu transformer serves a street/village. saves many costs.
>>51841885
no need to leave them lying around when outlets are switched and higher voltage = higher capacity = more outlets
>>51842106
>amperage
current
>>51842686
>bongs are 240v, eu is 220v
UK and EU are both 230V, since they merged their networks.
>>51835899
>most yankee sets didn't get the right colours
it's spelled color, and color is a social construct
not gonna lie I went for CompE because I'm scared about all these EEshit
>>51835899
Color problem was because of the NTSC system, PAL never had a hue shift but instead suffered from a saturation shift. And with pulldown, no frames go missing just 2 frames get combed together to create an additional frame out of thin air. Turning 4 film frames into 5 NTSC video frames. 23.976--->29.97fps
Unlike PAL which speeds the entire thing up, making the audio a higher pitch as well. Film speed up is still done today, even by the great BBC. Combing is possible with PAL but involves lots and lots of combed frames.
>>51842801
not really
technically its 230v+10%/-6% or something like that
they didn't change fuck all, average voltage is still 240 in the uk
>>51842984
Fuck, same here, I don't know if going CE or EE.
>>51838909
You can always just do 1 tire and ignore the other 2 spots. Your dumb ass can't even adapt
>>51841449
>The downside is that to deliver the same amount of power, 120V mains requires higher currents and therefore thicker wire.
Where does all this misinformation come from?
Electricity is very, very simple. One law (Ohm's), 3 variables:
Voltage = (Current) * (Resistance)
or
Current = Voltage / Resistance
The Voltage in your house is fixed (110 or 220). So, if you want more energy (aka Joules, aka Current * time), you need to reduce the resistance, simple as that.
How do you reduce the resistance?
Well, resistance of a wire = c*length/(diameter), where c is a constant depending on the material used.
So, the easiest way to decrease resistance, is to use thicker wire (increase the diameter), since increasing the length or using a different material is impractical.
>TL;DR: 110V and 220V have the same current ("energy") flowing in them and they're just as safe because the total current is regulated by circuit breakers. 110V requires thicker cables and is slightly less efficient, and that's all there is to it.
>>51836663
>If you short circuit a 240v 20 amp connection, you are going to see a shitload of sparks.
It will blow the fuse almost instantly.
With 100-120 VAC you need more current for the same power. And current is a bitch
>>51842686
>bongs are 240v, eu is 220v
Nah, the EU largely hits the 230V mark. Some places have ~220V though.
>>51835195
That's... exactly how it is in Europe. Do you honestly believe we only have a single circuit breaker for the whole house?
>120V means we don't have to super idiot-proof our electrical outlets
Uh, yes it does. It's still damaging.
Why do you think that most burger plugs can only be inserted one way?
>>51835081
There is virtually no difference when it comes to housefires between 120V/240V. In fact, due to the lower voltage in the US, the opposite can be argued, but in reality it's offset by thicker conductors.
You clueless piece of shit.
>>51836032
That has fuck all to do with the voltage. It has everything to do with how, after WW2, the UK did their best to save copper due to a huge shortage and used ring circuits for electrical grids in houses. This is why there's fuses, as well as switches. Other European countries just have circuit breakers for each circuit (divided into rooms), which is still perfectly safe.
>>51836586
It's pretty fucking irrelevant. It would only ever happen with an electrical fault which usually happens when someone is doing work on the circuit, and then it would even have to be live.
For other cases where a consumer product has an electrical fault and shorts out, the circuit breakers are there to kill it before it goes to hell.
Higher current is pretty directly equal to more heat, which is a large reason that the US has thicker conductors.
>>51836443
Look at it this way: Voltage fucks up your muscles, current fries you.
>>51836592
You would think that if safety was the US' #1 concern that they would use <48V for all house electric grids, seeing as that doesn't even penetrate the skin.
>>51843494
>With 100-120 VAC you need more current for the same power.
*sigh*
>>51841922
230 is only 1 phase anon, it takes more then that to convert 2 phase 110V to 1 phase 230V
Needs a bigass cap
>>51836443
What are you talking about, that graph clearly shows that it is A/t that is deadly.
Ohms law has V and A as inversely proportional. If you're running the same load and simply halfing the voltage, you're (more than) doubling the current.
>>51842358
Greenland uses the same as denmark, so 230 V.
>>51843599
>Ohms law has V and A as inversely proportional. If you're running the same load and simply halfing the voltage, you're (more than) doubling the current.
That's not how it works
That's not how any of this works
fuck you
>>51843494
>>51843548
Except retarded use of words, he's not really wrong. For the same effect (say, 460W) you would need 2A in a 230V system, but 4A in a 115V system.
Obviously, there are more variables to this.
>>51843403
a little knowledge is a dangerous thing anon. because it makes you look stupid
P=IV
reduce V, increase I.
energy lost to heat is P=I*I*R
so increasing current increases energy lost to resistance. this is bad because wasteful and it makes your house burn down
>>51843540
>EU largely hits the 230V mark
well uk certainly doesn't. i'd be surprised if the mainland bothered.
>>51843877
No, not at all.
This is a total misunderstanding.
For the same effect, you need the same Amperes.
And *in order to* have the same Amperes, you need say 100Ohms resistance at 220V or 50Ohms at 110V.
>>51835295
You even have those Neon-lamp testers, useful as fuck
>>51843906
>reduce V, increase I.
That's what I'm saying though.
The only way to increase I for a given voltage voltage, is resistance.
The other thing you said is true, and the reason why most countries chose 220V (and why the powerlines operate at 100-500kV.
>>51843920
Yes. That is correct, but this is what I meant with "other variables". In a 230V system, you need 2A to reach an effect of 460W, thus somewhere there must be 115ohm resistance (covered by "other variables"). To have the same effect in a 115V system you'd; need 28.75ohm resistance.
What I inferred from that guy's argument is that he meant to have the same effect you must have double the current when going from 230V to 115V. Modifying the resistances is a given already, because you can't have higher current without dropping it.
>>51843906
>well uk certainly doesn't. i'd be surprised if the mainland bothered.
I live in Norway, and most outlets are somewhere between 228-232V. One place I lived had 239V though.
>>51844029
the impedance of the load must change but the power stays the same is whats important
>>51843551
>then that to convert 2 phase 110V to 1 phase 230V
maybe I didn't explain myself well.
We get 3 wires from the company.
Two have a voltage difference of 220 V between them.
There's a middle wire "neutral" connected to ground from the transformer, so we can get both 127 V and 220 V. (pic related)
Inside the house we use the neutral and any of the "live" wires to complete the circuit. We also "should" use an extra ground wire because the load isn't usually well balanced between one circuit (live A and neutral) and the other (live B and neutral).
>>51843402
It's not my place to adapt. It's my place to repair when shit tears up, and it gets sent to us.
But doing just one at a time doesn't alter the way the entire thing works, or I should say, the way it half-ass works.
>>51844203
We're saying the same thing, impedance is the generalisation of resistance, for ac circuits.
seems like there is a difference in volts
because murrilards can literally insert a knife in the outlet
>>51835353
>electrons propagating at the speed of light
Hah
>>51842377
Striped countries are savages that are too stupid to be allowed access to electricity at all, but for some reason they are and this is the sort of bullshit they pull with it.
>>51842686
DC is better for sending electricity distances, but only if it's at insanely high voltages (I don't mean 500v, I mean much, much higher).
Otherwise, at the voltages we need (110v), DC is horribly lossy and we'd need stations at every block to keep everything going smoothly.
That's why we use alternating current. It's not as efficient as DC for long distances, but it's much more efficient for shorter distances, at lower voltages.
>>51838210
>>51835161
>>51835179
>>51835209
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law
Please read this before making any further comments.
>>51835081
>240V is more likely to cause housefires
Do you have a source for this? If anything, it should reduce the risk due to lower current requirements.
>240V requires thinner cables and lower AMP circuit breakers
Your wording is completely wrong. 120V _requires_ higher gauge wiring whereas 240V will work with the same or thinner wire for the same transferred power.
One thing that always bothered me:
Is it the current that heats up a resistance or is it total power? I always assumed total power but something isn't right with that since there is barely any heat if you have low current but high voltage.
Didn't this thread burn already, with all the retards int it ?
>>51844749
A shitty appliance, and a nice power surge is all that is needed to start a fire, regardless if you are on 220V or 110V
>>51845022
If you have lower voltage any shitty connections will have a greater effect and generate more heat at that point.
>>51844744
i don't know that this is true
possibly the stepup/stepdown vs transformer losses are greater but the lines themselves are much more efficient at any voltage
>>51843403
>>51843548
>>51843920
>>51844029
>>51844257
You're fucking retarded.
Electricity is not only Ohms Law you fucking moron, there is also electric power:
>P = Vi
And guess what, transformers keep the power constant, so lowering the voltage to 110V results in twice the current needed for lowering it to 220V.
Also, the energy lost as heat is:
>E=i2 R
That means that the energy loss of 110V is 4 times the one of 220V, unless you use wires with lower resistance.
>R = ⍴ (L/A)
That means that you need ticker cables for 110V, unless you want to lose a shitload of energy like a moron.
