life reboot
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
Hey /g/. I have a question for all the folks here who actually work in the field.
I am about to completely restart my career. I done fucked up my youth, got drunk, travelled, had my fun basically, and crashed hard as a result.
After about 10 years of picking up the pieces, building a home, relationships, and my health back to a decent standard, and after being told for that entire decade "anon, you are way too damn smart for this job. You should work with computers." I ha e decided it is about time to do just that. I really want to make games. On the coding end, not the artistic end.
But I have some questions.
1) Game Programming diploma vs. Computer Science degree. Does it matter if I can build up a decent portfolio? Seems like the diploma will get me industry contacts and better specialized knowledge, but the degree is more likely to land a job. Also a factor is that I am old. If I can shave a year off doing the diploma, that would be great, and the degree program is a lot harder to get into as a mature student. Besides, I don't have the Bank of Mom&Dad to draw on here. Gotta $ave dat money.
2) Again, old. I assume this will make getting a job a challenge. People won't want to hire some old fuck fresh out of school. But will it be difficult even getting the education? Anyone have experience with this?
3) I have led a rough life. I have no convictions, and have been careful not to leave a big ugly online footprint, but I do look like a biker. I have tattoos. My language is rough, and my accent is thick. Do employers care about this sort of thing? Or is it really all about your work?
Any answers or opinions here would be appreciated. And yes, I realize it will be a bitch competing with the wunderkinds, but at the very least, I hope my life experience can give me an edge here.
They probably will care about it, anon-kun. Remove the tattoos, you look like a degenerate.
>>51905358
I kinda figured that might be the case. I will add it to the budget. Visible tattoos at least. Already married, so don't need to worry about any coverable tattoos. No thoughts on the rest of it?
>>51905334
at 44, i started my 3rd career. sold the house, gave away the car, bought a motorcycle and went and got a degree in computer animation.
made good contacts and got my first industry job 2 months after leaving school. i was the oldest one there at a small studio in souther cali. was a great job, and led to other contacts and other work.
it was very tough getting through school (incredibly grueling schedule there, and on purpose to weed ppl out), but it was worth it.
take the shot bro, but i'd say you owe it to you'reself to work through PPP2 in it's entirety *before* you enroll. then it will literally be just a walk in the park for you to get a quick diploma in game dev.
remember, it's the contacts you make at school that matter most...guard them well.
>
http://stroustrup.com/Programming/
>>51905334
>>51905627
btw, no one will give a fuck about you're appearance in game dev, as long as you've got the chops to deliver the goods on time during crunch mode.
>>51905627
>2 months after finishing school*
>>51905627
Thanks man! Very helpful advice. At 35, it is good to know that I am not the only one who decides to reboot later in life. Any advice on the diploma vs. degree issue? Much of what I read says it is all about contacts + portfolio, and doesn't really matter, but it would be much better to get the perspective of someone who has done what I intend to do.
>>51905957
believe me, you probably don't want to go through what i went through. so, if you can find a good program that you can afford (maybe look into DigiPen?) I'd recommend taking the long route, ie a 4-year degree. More time to learn, more time to make friends with all the profs and other good students. Better likelihood of landing a nice gig through contacts that way.
That's about the size of it from my perspective anon. That, and I'm not kidding about PPP2 is game dev is you're goal. Finish it before you even start classes. You'll be miles ahead of the other students in general, as befits an older student. The majority of my profs loved the fact that I was srsbzns about classes and paid close attention.
>>51906041
>if game dev is you're goal*
>>51906041
See, I could MAYBE swing the time, and likely the cost of the degree, but it seems like going compsci is not going to get me contacts in the game industry, while the more specialized diploma course will connect me to people, but give me less credibility overall.
(Canadafag, so we are basically talking about York U's compsci vs. George Brown's Game Programming.)
On the other hand, I am not really looking for an "easy way" since I realize none of this will be easy. It just seems like going through the college course is more likely to leave me with a portfolio and contacts, while the university will stuff me full of wildly unnecessary electives. I'm a grown ass man, who has been to every damn continent on the globe. I do not need and fucking social science courses, ya know?
And I just bought a copy of PPP2 on Amazon. Thanks big time for that tip.
>>51906178
I didn't say compsci, i said a 4-year degree. in game dev.
and yea, i know what you mean about fluff. avoid it like the plague but you don't need my advice about that.
>PPP2
Finish that book in it's entirety, then Tour++. You'll be able to get a high paying job regardless after that, even if it's not in game dev--w/o even getting a degree either heh.
>not that i don't highly recommend getting one though.
>>51906237
Ahhh, ok. I think I am seeing the problem. We are running into a minor cultural hiccup here. In Canada, colleges and universities are VERY much separated. You can do a 4 year game dev diploma at college, or a 4 year compsci degree at university, but neither one will offer the other. The degree will always be compsci/compengineering etc. The degree will always be more generalized and theory, but will offer significant prestige. The diploma will have industry contacts and hands on work, but for example I am told Ubisoft Canada refuses to look at candidates with less than a compsci degree.
>>51906639
Ah, got it. I was referring to something like a master's at Digipen.
Hey gotta run anon, but good luck.
BTW, about PPP2 when I say
>"Finish that book in it's entirety..."
I don't mean just read it. I mean work through every programming exercise and drill and answer every review question.
Drive you'reself exactly as you would in a college degree program. It's a freshman textbook intended for complete beginners, but it's a thick-ass book and will easily exhaust you're available time. That's intentional, and Stroustrup says as much in the text. I'd recommend you plan for at least 3 months of nearly full-time effort to work through it in it's entirety.
Tour++ will likely go by in under 2 weeks for you thereafter.
BTW, Bloomberg is currently snapping up C++ devs left and right. I personally can't stand the financials industry, but could be a good way to fund you're further education, and at you're leisure.
Finish these two books and you're in as a junior dev.
https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/3przp0/2015_q4_job_listing_for_c_developers/
Why game programming?
I've never worked as a game dev, but I can't imagine that game programming is a very different experience from programming in general. If you're a fan on games it might seem glamorous, but generally, from what I've heard, you'll just be working longer hours for lower pay because it's saturated with faggots who think it's cool.
You should consider opening yourself to other opportunities in the software field. There are plenty of them.
>>51905334
>3) I have led a rough life. I have no convictions, and have been careful not to leave a big ugly online footprint, but I do look like a biker. I have tattoos. My language is rough, and my accent is thick. Do employers care about this sort of thing? Or is it really all about your work?
>I'm a badass
It's cool bro, and some won't, but some will. If it makes other people feel uncomfortable (or associate you with unreliable/unsavory sorts) that will factor into their judgement. Accent probably isn't too bad, language you can make an effort to change, tattoos you can hide. The "this will affect your prospects" types will probably be concentrated in major tech capitals- where they're used to other normal, vanilla-flavored, uninteresting techy nerds. ymmv
There are ways in which you can work from home or freelance without ever meeting your employers. Those might circumvent it.
Good on you by the way. It takes a big guy to stop, look at things, and turn their life around. I hope it wasn't extremely painful for you.
>>51906754
I have heard that as well, but mostly it is because it is so much easier for me to stay motivated when it is something I care about. If I am working on a game, I would be able to make myself work so much harder knowing I will be contributing to something that will bring myself and others joy, something I can go to my wife's office xmas party and go "oh, you like and play [x]? I helped make that game! How did you like [y]?"
Whereas I am not at all business-minded. If I found myself making accounting software, I would probably get no motivation or job satisfaction from it. Engineering software and learning software would likely fall someplace in the middle.
Besides. I am not rebooting my whole career at 35 because I want a job. I have a job, but it makes me unhappy and depressed. I am in this for personal satisfaction, for passion, not because I want more money or shorter hours.
Without getting into it, my current job pays well and has flexible hours. But it requires no thinking, and I spend most of my day being called a dirtbag, while I forcibly move people from point a to point b. I get no respect, and feel like a dirtbag, all while feeling as though my brains must be dribbling from my ears from disuse. It is deeply depressing and every night when I get home, I tell my wife I am going to quit "ANY DAY NOW".
I have had enough. I want to use my smarts to make people happy. So when I go home at the end of the day, I can snuggle up on the couch in the knowledge that I am pursuing my dreams, rather than staying up burning through cigars (my remaining vice) watching bad tv and hating myself.
>>51907104
You. I like you anon.
Then go for it. Gaming is a sucky industry for almost everyone, but I know a few guys who display the attitude you mention. Those guys always
a) work late w/o being asked.
b) become team leaders quickly.
>t. Someone who's work is used in several AAA titles
>>51906887
Thanks man. DESU it was extremely painful, but the decision has been made. No goin back now.
And for the record I am not a badass. I have been able to avoid physical confrontation about 3/4 of the time by manipulation and threats against people dumber and smaller than me. The big secret is that I APPEAR to be a badass, when actually I am just a very sad person, and a big softie.
>>51907150
That is incredibly inspiring, man. Thanks.
>>51907104
That is understandable. I do it because I like writing software in general and I like making fat stacks, but if you have something in particular that you'd like to do then go for it.
Are you experienced with programming?
>>51907209
Nprb. Go for it man, we need more people like you.
>>51905334
I led this life.
Joined the navy at 19 and got inked up in every country i went to. The best way to handle that is simply wear a jacket until you porve your worth. There are several people like my manager and the upper cast that have no idea that I drink and have most of my torso covered in ink.
as far as the degree, I found that prof outweighs knowladge everytime. If you can show that you know what you are doing you are going to be better off than those that only have a peice of paper saying that they do. In the year of 2015, too many people just out of college have the knowladge but no exp to show that they have done anything of worth or that they can talk for hours about languages but cant itterate over an array. If you can show that you know what to do to solve a problem like bug fixing you will be a much better position with or without a degree. I went from help desk to dev in the company i work for because I spent my free time on programming because i love it.
>do what you love and the rest will come.
Reading your posts, I think you can make it. Depending on what kinds of company you're applying for, no one's going to care what you look or talk like as long as you act respectful/confident.
My advice is to sharpen your claws on what you like (which it seems like game dev is) but prepare your skills and heart to work in something you enjoy, but aren't as passionate about. For one, game dev is grueling work. But even without that, the reality is you'll be working for idiots who are only thinking about the bottom line and won't listen to a word you say. I've been there, and I quickly learned to save my passionate work for my open source projects.
That's a choice, and as long as you keep your skills in other domains someone up to date, switching to one or the other isn't beyond reason.
My other advice is to get involved in programming communities. There are plenty of people who are happy to blabber on about the best way to program and share all their hard won tips. After all, they worked hard for that knowledge, and they're proud of it. And as long as you listen to those people, you can benefit from their experience without the time and suffering.
Better yet if you can find a mentor figure to help you find the right path to learn, because I think figuring that out is where most of the wasted time goes in the beginning.
>>51907209
while im at it, how do you feel about webdev/POS software?
It looks like you found something worthwile OP.
Just be mindfull where you put your time in.
Time is our most valueable asset, and as you know you have less of it then ofcouse, the youth.
Not sure if you have kids, It would make things harder ofcourse, having more pressure etc.
First impressions are important, isn't there a way to cover the tats? Long sleeve shirts, maybe a fitting suit to contrast it.
Don't be afraid to make mistakes, fail forward. But make good calculated risks, you aren't here forever on this planet, plus you probally have more to lose. It's not too late, really.
I have good faith in you, but be sure to know that working for someone isn't the only way you could make money.
>>51907224
Not really. Nothing currently relevant, but I intend to work my ass off learning. It is my passion, and just taking the first steps has brought meaning to my life that has been gone longer than I can remember.
>>51907388
Yeah buddy. And thanks for the tips, long sleeves should do it, as I gave up most of my vices already.
>>51907425
I realize it isn't like I will be making my personal dream games, but that is what I can work on on the side. As far as a mentor goes, that could be tricky. Although I do have a contact who has been a programmer since the 80s. I should probably give him a ring.
>>51907495
No real opinion. Necessary, but seeing as I seem to meet like, 30 people at every party I go to that say they are a "web developer", I assume that market is massively oversaturated.
>>51907735
-Yeah, time is key. I have improved my time management skills over the years, but my real ace-in-the-hole is my ultra organized wife. Who is an engineer.
-no kids yet. Do not plan on it until after my education is complete. For obvious reasons.
-as I said above, sleeves should do it. And scars are easy to explain. Luckily I never did get around to that neck tattoo I designed, lol.
-hey man, mistakes are how we learn. That is more of a problem the young have. Half my life was a mistake, and it taught me a ton.
-thanks man, but what are you getting at here? Indie dev?
>>51907994
>>51907994
web deb is over saturated, but the use case is not. if you are looking for some frelance work i could use some. i have a good idea and just need to give it some legs. i just dont have the time for all the research and programming needed. if you are looking for a paid project just let me know and give me a contact and ill hit you up in the morning. I need the talent.
>>51905334
I don't think that tattoos would be such a problem in game development. Hell, they might just even create a positive impression, especially if it's some sort of hipster startup.
>>51905334
Gamestudios are shitty companies. They demand unpaid overtime because management wants to meet some arbitrary deadline and muh "pashiun"
>>51908379
Oh yeah, the FLSA exemption. OP, careful about which companies you look at.
>>51906887
Some companies like to hire people who is coming right from schools.
They have the latest knowledge and can be shaped more easily as they don't have inherited bad habits over the years.
Not all companies though.
As for learning programming when you are older? I wouldn't know.
Maybe. If you take it seriously and realizes you might have to spend more time on it than the others seem it is possible to learn anything.
Programming is not that hard to grasp, but you need to know a lot of things to make anything useful
If you're an adult who needs to get advice on 4chan about something simple research would tell you the answer to, you are not capable of professional programming.
>>51907735
>time is your most valuable asset
I'm already 19 years old and I still don't think there is anything worth living for on this planet
If you are serious you could very easily invite the other students to your house for coding sessions and use the time to create skeletons for your games with them. Considering that the other students are going to be barely over 18 or ronery, it would be the coolest thing in the world to have some older guy that has video games and space for people to be themselves in, drinks too ( 21+ ). On top of that, you could draw from your demographic.
I went back to school and couldn't make a single friend because I had nothing to bring to the table ( I was injured and had a piece of shit person as a girlfriend then, I was clueless ) and although I had a lot of exposure to very high level video gaming, ( as in knew a lot of high ranked video "gamers" ) I was kind of seen as strictly competition because I still wasn't exactly old and didn't just go up to people and talk to people and such. It took a few emails to the professor for him to kind of open up the floor to a more widespread teaching of the material, where he would delve in to the topics as they would be glossed over in video game frequencies as well as enterprise back ends.
In the end, I managed to make a few friends but the injuries had gotten the best of me and I didn't manage to make too many friends. I'm better now and going to continue with the schooling again. It's only been about three years since I started and I'm about ready to transfer to a University again. Lucky for me, I have a friend, one of the famous high level video games dudes , that is a professor at the University I plan on attenting. That should be a good boost in regards to fitting in again.
I would say go for the degree rather than the diploma. Diploma will get you in with start ups and such because you will be the one bringing in the on the job experience, something they can carry on into the next project ( that's the word entrepeneurial for you ). With the degree, you can always get a dayjob and work on games nights/weekeeds.
>>51908711
riiiighhttt....
Anyway, you could also use the time at the college/university to take up a job in the computer lab or as a tutor if you want experience in the field and can't find a position fit for you at your current experience level. I'm actually going to attempt one of the two above this coming semester. I have child support payments myself but am super confident in all my coding and such. I don't generally need help debugging my code but still struggle a bit with memorizing my libraries. The problem there still has to do with the crazy ex girlfriend as she shot out my ear and now I have a hard time remembering things on the fly without bringing on the tinnitus. Trust me, man. If you really take it seriously, as in do the work and really try to apply it as much as you can, you have nothing to worry about. Computers are built like human brains. And everything you use on your computer is built on the basis that you're learning from. It shouldn't be difficult to learn this stuff.
>>51909751
>19
>already
Just find work that you enjoy doing chap. You'll be happy enough most likely.
>>51909751
Good to see someone of the same age.
As for anything worth living for in this world, how about yourself, won't you find someone who you can share your thoughts with.
My thoughts go to making some webshops, or something that generates an income, then live somewhere quiet with a reasonable internet connection, go hunt seasonable, get myself some firewood. Live freely after some travel. Have time for myself and maybe someone else.
>>51907994
For what I intended to say was not just indie dev in mind. I was more thinking like
If you are a doctor, you could work at a hospital (employee), work for yourself in a practition (specialist), build a hospital and employ other doctors (business) or invest in a new medicine (investor).
The doctor here has a choice to go either way, but I know, that there is real money in either business, or investments.
What I'm showing you is that you don't always have to be employed, maybe at first.
But start your own business as a side project while you work on your job, untill it's big enough to quit your job (if you want to).
Working on your job makes you a living.
Working on yourself will make you a fortune.
I'm sure you'll enjoy life alot more when you're starting for yourself. I know I do.
