Hi /diy/
I asked this question on /g/ but they sent me here because they thought y'all might be more knowledgeable on the subject
I'm a frequent of /k/ wondering about comms and how they work.
I was thinking about getting a short band radio to communicate with some buddies while innawoods to "train" But I realized I know nothing about them and wouldn't know the first thing about buying one- SO
How does a short band radio work?
Would a CB suffice for a guerrilla force attempting to operate against a much larger/well equipped military?
Is it possible/easy to encrypt a CB to prevent unwanted listeners?
If not, what types of radio do I need to be looking at?
What are some decent handheld radios on the consumer market today?
There are commercial off the shelf items you can buy with encryption. Look for digital radios, analog is not encryptable unless you cypher it somehow.
Of course this being /diy/ I have to suggest a /diy/ solution which would be software defined radio. Can do analog or digital on the fly and you can choose your own encryption or modulation. Not really something for a casual user but there are some pre builts that probably have enough documentation for someone to use
>>989158
1. Get in with your local hams. Yes, you have local hams, and they can tell you all about the radio netwrok that exists around your locality and how not to inadvertantly infringe upon it, which could result in fines. Get your ham operator licence.
2. If you invest in something with off the shelf encryption, ensure that the encryption is actually secure/programmable, not something that can be googled or is found in the equipment's manual.
>How does a short band radio work?
By short band, do you mean UHF or VHF or what?
>Would a CB suffice for a guerrilla force attempting to operate against a much larger/well equipped military?
You could communicate with each other, but everybody would be able to hear you
>Is it possible/easy to encrypt a CB to prevent unwanted listeners?
It's possible, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal, although the FCC doesn't give a flying fuck about what happens on CB anymore
>If not, what types of radio do I need to be looking at?
There are some business band radios and mil radios that can do encryption, and there's some amateur HTs that can do P25 and DMR, although DMR isn't really encryption.
>What are some decent handheld radios on the consumer market today?
Depends on your price range. There's this Chinese company called Baofeng which has exploded in popularity since they make dirt cheap semi decent handhelds. If you get one, go for the UV-B5 or the BF-F8C or BF-F8HP. Many people will tell you to get a UV-5R, but that has a few problems with it like being unable to save repeater offsets without a computer, which you won't need to do unless you're using a repeater. If you have a bit more money to spend, look into Yaesu. They have some great radios for a reasonable price, and apparently have good customer service. If you're going for used, look for motorolas. They hold up really well and can be had for under ten dollars per radio if you get them in bulk. Be warned, some people get really worked up over what radios and whatnot you use. My personal favorite is the person who's spent the past 12 years going on an anti echolink jihad since he was too stupid to get it working on his computer. Mention echolink on any forums, and this guy shows up with a response like "Well that's what u get for using echoSTINK!! haha use real radio XDD."
>>989158
>How does a short band radio work?
Short band is the wavelength that HAMS and other long range transmitters use to punch a signal around the world, its generally fairly heavily regulated in most countries and not exactly portable as the antennas need to be quite large.
Essentially it throws a signal out, it'll bounce off the ionosphere and land somewhere else and keep doing it for a long way, depending on how many watts you're chucking down it.
>Would a CB suffice for a guerrilla force attempting to operate against a much larger/well equipped military?
Nope- ex signals officer
Expect some ugly cunt like me stepping on your neck in the middle of the night with a big smile and bigger guns. Even if your shits encrypted there's ways of making it work on our end, its not cheap, easy or even remotely portable and that's all I've got to say really.
>>989192
this guy has it mostly right. i'll add that CB is to be avoided coz they need very long antennas (a quarter-wave is 8.5 feet) which is insane for use in the woods. as for used Motorola's, or used anything, you should also avoid coz most likely the batteries no longer hold a charge for any length of time.
for less than the price of a replacement battery, you can get a new $25 Baofeng UV-5R, along with a USB programming cable.
>>989204
Cool fantasy bro. Tell more.
>>989209
Batteries are cheap to replace. You can even make your own.
>>989212
It's a fantasy that the US military can do radio trianglation? All you need is 2 to three receivers to find the source.
>>989224
Maybe he thought you meant the encryption.
Which is probably more about trade deals and the industry not wanting to be too good because then nations wouldn't let it be imported, rather than the decryption technology being particularly secret sauce.
decrypting something good like a 128 bit CAST stream in real time, especially when it's not even handshaking in front of you... I doubt that. But whatever the fuck they put in the Chinese radio? Yeah sure.
>>989227
Most telco grade comms crypto (128-256) needs around a semi trailers worth of gear to crunch through, but its there and it works pretty well.
(Costs a bit though!)
Got to remember most of those where invented somewhere between the 1970s to late 90's, so there's been a lot of work gone into making ways to get through it and particularly cellular systems. But, all said and done if you're just playing super army kids in the bush with their bb guns, a decent crypt will stop Average Bob on his scanner from listening in to your mad operations.
good lord....the amount of paperwork just to get a basic license
it's almost like they don't want people to use them
>>989241
It's pretty easy. If you're going for tech, just keep doing the practice tests on hamstudy.org. It helps to know the theory behind the questions, but it you keep doing the practice tests enough, you can cheese the real one. After that, just find an exam session in your area and take the test.
>>989158
>Would a CB suffice for a guerrilla force attempting to operate against a much larger/well equipped military?
Probably not. CB radio (and other shortwave voice comms) is generally analog and thus very easy to intercept, and CB in particular will probably be quite congested in an SHTF situation. The advantage of shortwave is its propagation characteristics - it performs comparatively well in hilly areas (or anywhere NLOS), and under the right conditions can even propagate thousands of miles. For shorter-range communications, especially where encryption is desired, a digital UHF radio is probably more desirable. The Baofengs and Yaesus being recommended in this thread are VHF/UHF.
>>989160
>Of course this being /diy/ I have to suggest a /diy/ solution which would be software defined radio. Can do analog or digital on the fly and you can choose your own encryption or modulation.
Even better, you could have it digitally transmit telemetry messages too, containing GPS or grid coordinates, text messages and whatnot. Hell, even build your own wireless IFF.
>>989249
>Even better, you could have it digitally transmit telemetry messages too, containing GPS or grid coordinates, text messages and whatnot. Hell, even build your own wireless IFF.
To OP, there's something called APRS that does this. It's fun to fuck with and you can get handhelds with it built in. The VX-8DR is a great HT for it, although some others have more features.
>>989241
License-free broadcasting is legal in certain bands with certain restrictions. CB and FRS are the most relevant bands here.
>>989254
so if two people wanted to use said UV-5R radios while out and about, can one do so "legally" without any sort of license? and if so, is there anything special that needs to be done?
>>989257
You can't legally.
However, nobody cares if you use FRS (UHF) or MURS (VHF) frequencies with it.
>>989257
you need a license or you need to not get caught, which is the easier option, unless you're annoying other people enough that they complain, and staying in the same spot for a long time.
>>989258
To clarify this, the UV-5R is not formally blessed as a license-free radio by the FCC because it's capable from the factory of transmitting on licensed amateur and commercial bands, and also is about twice as powerful as an FRS radio is allowed to be. But if you refrain from transmitting outside of FRS channels, your shenanigans should be mostly benign and free from scrutiny.
>>989262
>Twice
Ten times actually, although power doesn't directly translate to range. It's not like the FCC cares about FRS either.
>>989262
well obviously the point of owning one would not be to harass other people or do anything to intentionally interfere with civil services
I can't imagine the fcc has excess funds to waste on a crusade against people who want a better option for communication other than the off-the-shelf choices available at wallyworld
I took a practice test for lols and got 54%
>>989263
>Ten times actually
Shit, looking at the wrong thing. You're right.
Is there a way to reduce broadcast power with a UV-5R without modifying it? I'm not that familiar with it.
>although power doesn't directly translate to range.
No, power gives diminishing returns with range (inverse-square and all that) For instance, 10x the power grants only 3.2 times the range. But power DOES directly correlate to interference, which is really the main point of the power limitations in the first place.
>>989265
>well obviously the point of owning one would not be to harass other people or do anything to intentionally interfere with civil services
No, but ignoring (or being unaware of) the regulations can still potentially be problematic.
>>989254
however encryption is illegal on those...
>>989265
>I can't imagine the fcc has excess funds to waste on a crusade against people who want a better option for communication other than the off-the-shelf choices available at wallyworld
Civilian auxiliary or somebody is always listening and reporting. You really wanna know what you're doing with radio transmission unless you're just using CB. "Not getting caught" is really harder than you think.
>>989378
Can you show me an instance of somebody getting prosecuted for using FRS/MURS with ham gear? I'm not saying this to be a dick or anything, but I would actually like to know if it's happened in recent years.
>>989158
My advice as someone who has used intercepted communications to kill those operating against a much larger/well equipped military is to not use radio. We had terps in the field with us with ICOMs translating Taliban communication in real time. It was actually kinda funny.
>>989378
this >>989511
what is the big deal if you are only using the same 22 channels used by every other common walkie talkie? even if you are using an "unapproved" device at 1 freaking watt, how is anyone else going to know you didn't somehow guess enough answers right on the basic test by marking every question (C), to obtain a license?
is this the matrix where the other ham dbags and fcc people are agents who can magically sense and lock on to the location of anyone, anywhere and proceed to smash through walls and run around discharging weapons with no regard for public safety? I have a hard time believing anyone would be able to figure out exactly where and who you were during casual usage, especially if you are moving, unless you somehow broadcasted your complete personal info
>>989564
It's not a matter of needing a license to go above one watt on FRS, it's the FCC saying that you can't use anything but approved equipment that doesn't have a removable antenna or more than 0.5 watts PEP.
>is this the matrix where the other ham dbags and fcc people are agents who can magically sense and lock on to the location of anyone, anywhere and proceed to smash through walls and run around discharging weapons with no regard for public safety? I have a hard time believing anyone would be able to figure out exactly where and who you were during casual usage, especially if you are moving, unless you somehow broadcasted your complete personal info
If you shit up the ham bands enough, people can and will attempt to locate you, but as you said, this doesn't matter if you keep moving. There are many members of the amateur radio community who get off to being control freaks, so be prepared for angry letters and possibly visits from the FCC/hams if you use the amateur bands enough from the same place.
The funny part of having so many control freaks is that naturally, many of them gravitate to running HOAs, which leads to hilarious HOA vs anti HOA shitflinging on some forums.
>>989567
>ham bands
are you talking about other channels than the 22 frs/gmrs?
'cause they have absolutely no "right" to anything, let alone those frequencies, which any moron can talk on using a basic, store bought walkie talkie....
>>989583
The FCC allocates certain frequencies to different services. I'm talking about the 2m and 70 centimeter bands that most handhelds transmit on, which the FCC has specifically allocated for use by amateur license holders. While anybody can talk on them, it's technically legal. Anybody can talk on FRS, it's just illegal to do so using anything but a FCC approved radio, which nobody cares about and only the most autistic and bored of people would try to enforce.
>>989597
>And only the most autistic and bored of people
Sounds like your average ham community to me. Whole lotta retired old guys who spend all day yakking about their grandkids and trucks and complaining to each other about the local pests on their repeaters.
>>989182
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
>>989767
this
ham guys absolutely HATE illegal transmissions and take a lot of pleasure in tracking them down and reporting them.
>>989567
>If you shit up the ham bands enough
But we aren't talking about the HAM bands at all, we're talking about using CB/FRS bands with amateur equipment.
>>989597
Even if they TRY to enforce it, they really don't have any way of doing so unless you do it right fucking in front of them. It's not like they can identify the type of transmitter remotely or anything.
>Hmmm, yes... yes. This particular FRS broadcast sounds like it's coming from a Baofeng, NOT an FCC approved Motorola!
On an unrelated note, could someone recommend a radio for receiving aviation VHF chatter? I don't care about transmitting.
>>990144
You can't do CB with an amateur HT, at least none I've seen. They don't have any way of enforcing it period, that's the FCC's job, although people will be dicks about it and there's some internet tough guy stories of dubious truth about "well this one guy said "test" on a repeater without a license so I df'd him and went to his house to have a little "chat" with his face."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw_WkbsuAZI
explains advantages and disadvantage of freqs
legal implications and requirements
what kind of radios to use
encryption is illegal for amatures in usa
>>990149
>You can't do CB with an amateur HT
Handheld shortwave radios do exist, but handheld or not is beside the point. Ultimately both CB and FRS are open to unlicensed traffic, and while technically the FCC does require these unlicensed broadcasts be made only using certified equipment, in practice they don't have any way of distinguishing certified CB or FRS transmitters from any other reasonably-well-built transmitter broadcasting the same signals on the same unlicensed channels.
>>989204
>>989158
>shortband
lol
You mean short-wave?
In two way comms there is no 'short' band. Bands are assigned by wavelength
This is mostly on par, but not for anything higher than HF bands. Ionospheric 'skips' only occur during certain conditions and each band has its own properties. The term you would be looking for is "Tropospheric ducting" in VHF and up.
>>989158
What OP wants to do is very possible.
You can easily mod a CB or good FRS to transmit a digital mode, and encrypt that.
Mind you you will always be carrying around the radio + extra equipment (might be do-able on a raspberry pi or similar).
However what OP wants to do, while do-able, is highly illegal.
And based on the post, OP has neither the skill to build such equipment, nor the skill to operate weak signal effectively enough without getting caught and raped by old fuckers and the FCC.
For LOS distances, get a baofeng and use it on FRS or MURS channels. CB will be a waste of your time.
Better yet, get some of the ruggedized FRS/GMRS combo units and use them FRS only.
No legal option will help you operate against a real military.
Even the illegal ones you have to know how to operate properly to be effective at weak signal levels if you want to avoid sending a beacon that says HAE GAIS I'M HERE. HEY
HEY
OVER HERE
IM BENDING OVER AND EVERYTHING
HEY
HEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYY.
LETS HAVE A PARTY.
If you just want to 'train' and aren't breaking the law, use a consumer solution. If you're at least a few miles from most people your signal will be too weak for them to use anyways (on FRS). If there's anyone nearby who even cares enough.
sauce- I'm an extra class ham who does foxhunts regularly for the sheriff's office to find dumbass kids and conspiritards trying to fuck with the public service systems.
That and tacticool foxhunting aswell.
>>990238
If you want to make digital transmissions, there are bands where you may do that legally and license-free. 2.4 GHz and 5.8 GHz are nearly-globally-accepted ISM bands used for digital communications, but in UHF it varies by region. In ITU Region 1 (Europe, Africa, North and West Asia), low-power unlicensed digital transmitting is permitted in part of the 70 cm band under LPD433; in Region 2 (Americas) we have our own equivalent (more or less) within the 33 cm band at 915 MHz. For both of these, there are plenty of digital transceivers and radio modems already available that would be more fitting than a modified analog radio.
>>989192
I've got a UV-5R, I can save offsets without a p , its just really janky.
>>990302
Yes but these would be practically useless for OP's purposes.
He would be carrying around MORE equipment just to get an acceptable range on 2.4 or 5.8.
Sure it would be easier, and have a higher bandwidth, but those things are less important for OP.
OP is looking for a LOS setup that would give him about the range people could cover in the woods separate from each other, and could possibly be encrypted.
> low-power unlicensed digital transmitting is permitted in part of the 70 cm band under LPD433
Anything is legal at a low enough power level yes, but I highly doubt OP is knowledgeable enough to make that work. Running part 15 in 33cm is hardly better than using a modded radio.
>>989158
>How does a short band radio work?
"Short band" isn't actually a thing, maybe you mean shortwave, which is actually pretty long. When a radio broadcasts a signal it does so using radiation at radio frequencies (i.e. waves of energy.) Generally shortwave is 1.6-30 Mhz, or 1,600,000 - 30,000,000 cycles a second. The 'length' of these waves is determined by measuring the distance from one peak to the next. Shortwaves are 187.4 meters to 10 meters long, CB is 11 meters. VHF frequencies, like what your car radio gets, are in the 77-108 Mhz (or 3 meter) band. Most handheld radios, like in pic related, work on the 2 meter (~150 Mhz) and 70 centimeter (~430 Mhz) band. These are the general frequencies where MURS and FRS/GMRS transmit.
As the frequency goes up (and the wavelength goes down) the propagation (how the waves travel through air and bounce/pass through objects) changes. Lower frequencies are more likely to travel greater distances, but are susceptible to noisy interference like power transmission lines and solar radiation. Higher frequencies, like MURS and FRS/GMRS, won't travel as far and are more likely to bounce off of solid objects than pass through them, but resist noise much better.
>Would a CB suffice for a guerrilla force attempting to operate against a much larger/well equipped military?
Oh god, no. It's barely usable now, given the quality and quantity of illegal amplifiers and general tomfuckery going on there. The regulations haven't been enforced properly in decades.
>Is it possible/easy to encrypt a CB to prevent unwanted listeners?
Yes, but it'd be an expensive and ultimately futile endeavor.
>If not, what types of radio do I need to be looking at?
Go get a couple of $40 Chinese handhelds and stick to MURS and FRS/GMRS frequencies unless you feel like getting your amateur radio operators license.
>What are some decent handheld radios on the consumer market today?
http://www.eham.net/reviews/products/49
>>989567
Yeah man. I really wanted to get my ham license until I bought a radio to practice and started listening to other hams. They get the award for saltiest geriatrics.
Not OP but thanks for the tip guys. I was thinking of getting one for when I go skiing.
To anybody interested in DMR, checkout the TYT/Tytera MD-380. It's a cheap chineese handheld that can do DMR. It's only ~120 dollars when new, and it comes with usable programming software.
>>989204
Itt: Thales/Milspec shill.
Who /ham/ here?
I'm not a ham yet but i have my study book for the australian Foundation license, just need time once i'm done with uni to study for it.
I was going to get a baofeng UV-5R since they seem to be pretty good for the price but apparently i need to wait until i get the standard license before i'm allowed to use equiptment that's homebrewed or otherwise not approved for use by the ACMA. Also no digital mode stuff on the foundation license either :(
Do you guys think it's worth getting one anyway and just programming it in the software (CHIRP?) to disable all TX functionality until I get the licensing sorted out? Just so I can listen to what's on the local ham radio bands.
>>989567
as he said, my dad installed a repeater to get 3G signal in the basement (he has a HAM license) and after a few months some guys with an antenna mounted on top of a van showed up to ask him to remove it because it was interfering with something.
This happened a few times in the past too but I don't know the details
>>989158
what does "how they work" mean? Do you want to know more about fourier transformation and high frequency mixers?
>>991360
Just do whatever you want with nobody gives a fuck if you don't have a license, they aren't gonna waste time sending cops to get you unless you cause serious interference.
>>991438
This is a lie, we already discussed old people with authority complexes in this thread.
>>991360
It's worth getting if you have a use for the ham bands/perks in the bands.
Need more than 11m CB or UHF CB can offer in terms of capability or power limit?
Go ham.
Need several digital modes/want to do datalinks with satellites, or need long range command, control, and telemetry?
Go ham.
Want to use HF,
go ham.
Just using it to talk over short ranges or you're just being a faggot in the woods like OP?
Stick to your countries CB/FRS type system.
There's lots of cool shit that you can do if you have a license, but most of it is very technical.
I for example run a flying repeater with an Time-of-Arrival signal locator and other features for my local search and rescue operation.
If you're just getting a tech type license just to get on repeaters you'll not only be a faggot, you'll be sadly disappointed.
If you're not doing technical stuff, or you're not using HF, it's not worth it IMO
>I'm an extra class ham.
>>991438
/Diy/ is for those who are at least responsible for themselves, if not others.
Running encryption and getting caught will lead to eventual signal triangulation and strength monitoring. While hams will moan, if the nsa think you're a terrorist cell you'll be hurting.
Pretty sure you should be in /b/.
>>989192
I bet if you used CB in SSB mode with fast frequency hopping you could use encryption without bothering the "legitimate" users. They'd just notice the tiniest bit of digital popping.
You could likely do the same thing with the UHF and VHF channels. Cheapest and quickest way to build such a setup would involve a hackrf and single board computer in a car. You'd need two for it to be any use.
>>991438
I'd rather not get fined and/or imprisoned, thanks.
>>991450
I intend to go ham. I just need the time to study and get my foundation license, then later I'll upgrade to the standard license which lets me play with digital modes and stuff.
I don't know what sort of luck I'm going to have once I get to HF stuff, since I'm in south australia. Maybe I'll be able to talk to some of the antarctic research bases or something. It would be nice to get a postcard from there.
I'm not sure how the licensing stuff here compare to the american licensing. We have foundation, standard and advanced license grades. I think our advanced license is roughly equivalent to your extra class license? the WIA page says it's in line with international standards.
The foundation license I'm going to get first allows the following:
Amplitude Modulation (AM) voice, Single Side Band (SSB) voice and Hand Keyed Morse Code on 80, 40 and 15 metre bands. The above modes plus FM voice on 10 metre, 2 metre, and 70cm. (http://www.wia.org.au/licenses/foundation/about/)
>>992789
Damn, your countries license plan is the shit.
In the USA we have
Element II, Technician: some am(ssb) on 10m, and everything else higher.
Element III, General : expanded HF privilages, practically every band, but frequencies and modes are restricted.
Element 4, amateur extra: Every ham band, and mode is available.
http://www.arrl.org/graphical-frequency-allocations
There used to be novice and advanced, but with the elimination of morse code tests, they're irrelevant.
A good HF setup under good conditions can go really far. I didn't hear it with my own ears but I have heard of some of my ham buddies here in the US making QSO's in Australia.
Here in the US though the repeaters are basically PC versions of CB. They even act like HF CB is /pol/.
And almost none of them know the technicalities of ham, they just buy a yaesu quadbander or baofeng and magmount antenna, set SWR and call it a day on 2m.
I'd say if you lean the theory, with that foundation license you'll have a good time.
H
>>990485
VHF is 30-300 Mhz.
>>992894
It's interesting to see the differences between the two systems.
Even though morse code is no longer required (in either system), I think I will learn it anyway since I understand it's sometimes the only way to communicate intelligebly over extremely long distances. But I won't have to worry about that for a while. I've been looking at http://lcwo.net since it seems like a decent way to learn it, but haven't had the time to make a serious effort yet.
I don't have a CB radio and I haven't found an online stream from a scanner so I can't say what the local users are like, but since it's mostly salty old truck drivers and stuff I would imagine it's about the same.
Wouldn't it be better to just have jammers powerful enough that other people wouldn't be able to communicate?
>>993909
Jammer for what? There's frequency hopping/wideband modes that are immune to narrowband jamming. And with wideband you'd need to overpower the other guy, which is unlikely compared to the kind of gear the military has
>>989158
If you just want to talk to your friends when out in the woods playing war then any civilian handheld/chinese clone (baofeng) should do. Stick to the civilian bands. If you shit up the amateur bands then angry hams will bring out the direction finding gear. If you're actually taking on an organized military then you're going to get triangulating pretty much immediately
Oh, and a heads up: with modern SDR it's possible to record and direction find *everything*, even after-the-fact. Example: http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?p=5173
>>994021
that guys blog is pretty cool and everything but
>mfw that solder
>>993606
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortwave_radio
>>993814
haha i remember when I was a little kid, prob about 7 years old, i got onto my uncles CB radio (he left his 4wd unlocked since he was working on it) and started screaming insults at truckers, and they started insulting me back. that went on for probably 10 minutes before someone went looking for me and found out what i was doing.
nothing came of it apart from being told off for being rude to people, although i did pick up some new swear words. got a spanking when i called my mom a "stupid little cunt" without realising what it meant or how insulting it was. feel bad about that one.
so yeah, cb is pretty fun, you should get one.
>>994117
Considering he fiddles with the circuit a lot and moves components around it isn't so strange that it looks a bit nasty. It's all experimentation in preparation for making a proper PCB as I understand
>>994192
that's fair enough, but... why not just use a breadboard instead?
>>994198
breadboards are horrible for RF applications
>>994198
Because you need a solid RF ground. This type of construction has a name, but it escapes me at the moment. What hams tend to do is use double-sided bare copper laminate (no photoresist) and cut it into small sqaures which are soldered on a larger board. This forms little islands that you can use to solder components to. You can also use laminate to construct a shielded box when you're done (just cut five more pieces of appropriate size and solder together into a box)
>>994200
And of course I used a picture where someone's cut islands in the copper, worsening the ground plane. Here's a better picture which uses standoffs
>>994200
>This type of construction has a name, but it escapes me at the moment
Manhattan style.
>>994203
thanks anon
>>994200
There's also a similar method without the little islands, called dead bug or ugly construction.
>>994206
>ugly
Every circuit that works is beautiful, Anon
wait the board is the ground plain? or is there some kind of weird shit going on here?
>>994232
>the board is the ground [plane]?
yes. because RF
>>994240
Is it possible to crash the plane, with no survivors?
So this thread has mostly been about radio comms so far, but what about other types?
I understand there's a lot of promising work with laser point-to-point and LiFi recently.
Does anyone know if any comms work has been done with e.g. gamma radiation? is that even possible?
>>995105
>Does anyone know if any comms work has been done with e.g. gamma radiation? is that even possible?
Check out pic related from >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_high_frequency
If you want the things talking to be alive, they need to be in the atmosphere, and the atmosphere really doesn't like high-frequency waves for some reason
>>995136
>what is WEP
>what is WPA/WPA2
>>989158
>Would a CB suffice for a guerrilla force attempting to operate against a much larger/well equipped military?
I don't think so. Because your thinly veiled attempt to discuss paramilitary issues and plant a GI Joe picture in the DIY forum isn't working very well.
>>995144
Trunking unauthorized radio is a felony
>>995156
How would /diy/ organise comms in a guerilla insurgency then?
>>995177
probably using scrap copper wire stolen from someones house with an arduino on either end to provide shitty low-fidelity field telephones
>>995333
Don't need to when I can RDF to within 20m
>>995341
I'm more than 20m in my bunker you stupid bitch, and by the time you're that close I'll make you into Swiss cheese.
>>995342
I can RDF with an accuracy of a 20m radius, that's what the "to" in "to within" implies.
>what is into basic english
>>995348
Whatever you say, bitch, have fun keeping up with literally hundreds of relays.
>>995350
Go back to /k/ faggot.
It would be rather easy to find the original source radio, and get its radio "fingerprint" and single out that particular radio.
Pls lrn2 foxhunting.
>>989158
>they thought y'all might be more knowledgeable on the subject
I'm a frequent of /k/ wondering about comms and how they work.
A few questions OP.
Did /g/ also kick you out ?
Have you thought about getting some books or magazines on the complex subject of communications technology ?
Even looking on wiki ?
No, because you have no DIY project, you don't want to invest your time learning electronics technology, and apparently your
not talking enough gun hardware and pissed off even /k/. Which is not easy to do I might add.
It seems you just want to play Rambo everywhere on a pretense.
>>995441
No, OP doesn't want a project.
OP wants an off the shelf solution (which doesn't exist for this), just like any /k/ or /g/ fag and/or wants us to set it up for him.
He doesn't give a fuck about learning any RF telcomms, which he would need to do if he were in fact fighting an army.
Basically he's asking us to do his homework, and asking what the best 'drone' is to buy at the same time.
>>995468
hams care
>>989158
Hard to encrypt voice. Not so much with packets. In a hit and run scenario by the time the other side decrypts its too late.
>>995409
Lasers can send sound to a repeater farther than 20m lrn2pirate/set up an ambush.
>>995814
Lasers weren't part of the conversation.
And even then, lasers are a shitty comms method in a guerrilla environment. They have to be pretty well aimed, every time they are moved.
>>995814
>>995866
Not only that, but if you actually read my reply, you would find that I'm referring to the accuracy of RDF.
The range is only limited by the effective range of your transmission.
We're also talking on the fly RDF at speeds of up to 120km/hr.
If you're implying that you would use laser based comms to uplink to an RF repeater, that's even worse, because the laser RX would have to be aimed directly at your TX point.
how about you learn some more about Laser based comms and TOA-RDF before you start taking on anyone other than HVAC faggot in the woods.
>>995409
Not that fucking easy you tard, since they are relays after all, they wouldn't carry a unique fingerprint, first relay would be connected by miles long underground cable
Checkmate faggot
;^)
>>995409
Considering they're all also going to be on the exact same frequency transmitting simultaneously, it's not that "easy". Hard to believe your a ex signals officer when you're this fucking stupid.
>>995915
That's not guerrilla warfare you meming jew. Maybe Dr.watermelon could teach you something the next time his black dick is in your ass
>>995918
lol, I'm not even the same anon.
>exact same frequency transmitting simultaneously
That's not a relay or repeater.
lrn2terminology.
Also, radio fingerprinting is a very selective method that works very well.
It's how the FCC catches faggots such as yourself.
HVAC faggot, stop shitting up threads.
It was funny when it was welding faggots and car faggots but now it's just old and annoying.
>>995920
>Is trumped
>Resorts to unfunny nigger joke
Just kys. It's over, you lost.
>>995925
With this quality of posting, everyone loses.
Anyone been doing any cool stuff with RF? even if it's just messing around with zigbees or whatever.
>>996553
I set up my car's immobilizer to work via telecommand on 2m.
I can send a kill code from 50mi away, further if I hit the repeater.
>>994121
You said that VHF was in the 77-108Mhz range. VHF is everything from 30Mhz to 300Mhz.
>>996695
That's pretty cool
is it only killswitch or can you do other stuff e.g. get GPS?
I'm assuming the car doesn't have a strong enough transmitter to radio back directly, but you can probably have it use standard 3g or whatever for data carrier.
>>997099
It's set up to send a dial tone response followed by my call-sign on whatever frequency I TX to it from when I sent it commands.
It already has APRS in it so there is no need to be able to parse GPS data.
I can kill the engine, or individual systems so it doesn't look like an immobilizer, I could set it up to be able to start the vehicle if I wanted.
That's about it, it's a 90's car with manual everything except (sadly) the transmission.
I also have it set up to be able to kill individual radios, in the event that they are stolen or being used without my permission, but that's built into the radios, not really anything I designed.
It's setup where all of the radios are mixed into one audio channel, when the preamble to the command comes in it picks the radio with a signal and listens to it, then responds with that radio.
>>989158
CB wont work with shit as a in a perlonged situation as gorilla army against a world class force. They can jam as soon as they decide too.
If you want to get gud make sure you use encryption and frequency hopping.
>>995918
You don't know how phasing works, do you?
>>989213
>you can make your own batteries
what the fuck?
tell me more
>>997411
Disassemble the battery pack and put in new cells. You can even make an old nicad or nimh into a lithium ion/lifepo battery if you know what you're doing.
>>997416
Ah. For some reason I thought it meant manufacturing new cells at home, with acid and stuff.
>>994225
Except for the ones that work in ways that violate the laws of physics.
>>997416
Thinking quickly anon makes batteries out of just battery casing, some tape and batteries.
Your definition of "make" is funny.
>>997486
When is a battery not a battery?
When its a cell
>>997496
cell = battery
>>989224
TriLATERATION... Unless you mean using directional antennas and trying to get the angles right.
T. Land surveyor
>>997510
An electric battery is a device consisting of one or more electrochemical cells with external connections provided to power electrical devices.
>>997553
In trigonometry and geometry, triangulation is the process of determining the location of a point by measuring angles to it from known points at either end of a fixed baseline
So, i want to make an edgy shortwave number station. Probably going to be solar powered in the sticks somewhere.
What sort of transmitter do I need to make this happen? (yes I know its not really legal etc)
>>997578
Therefore cell = battery and battery = cell/multiple cells in series/multiple batteries in series.
>>997698
Knock yourself out.
http://www.hfunderground.com/wiki/High_Frequency_Beacon
>>997486
You know what I mean. If I meant the actual cell, I would have said so.
>>997578
Triangulation is a proces of finding coordinates to select point by using known points, which form a base, and angles, from baseline to target point.
Literal translation from my language would be an angular cut, it can be done from base, or from unknown point(min 3 measurements to different base points compared to two when taking them from the base)
Trilateration is the same process but using distances. Literal translation: linear cut.
Calculations are different, methods are different, and you use different equipment.
You do can get angles from distance measurement, but why introduce extra error to the calculations.
Triangulation would require you to point directional antennas, and measure angle from baseline to the direction where Antena is pointing. Which is a bitch to do.
It is simpler to correlate signal strength to distance. And this is way more precise. Unless you have really specialized equipment.
Don't mind me - this shit always gets me triggered. Plus I mostly work with total stations, so laser based distance measurement, and directions are taken the same was as in theodolite.
>>997895
Triangulation is actually what most RDF setups do, but instead of directional antennas, it uses omnidirectional antennas in an array, measuring the Time Of Arrival (TOA) of each antenna, and gives an accurate bearing to the target.
This can either be used to plot two points and calculate the location of the target, or just as a bearing to follow.
>The image in this post shows the nose of a VAQ-137 EA-18G Growler aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt, supporting Operation Inherent Resolve against Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.
>Interestingly, the aircraft sports a quite unique kill marking, showing a person “hit” by a lightning bolt.
>According to our sources, this is the kill mark applied when the Growler is used in an operation during which it jams cell comms or pick up cell comms and that person is targeted.
>Along with actively jamming enemy communications, the Growler, operating in a networked environment along with other two aircraft of the same type (needed for triangulation), can use its EW pods to geo-locate a signal source and target it from stand-off distance with air-to-surface missiles.
>>995920
While I really appreciate this endearing exchange, Sig Int really loses something in suburban environments.
It's all a pipe dream anyways; He's never going to be leader of the Wolverines any more than you'll ever get to kick down the door and do justice to his throat with your boot.
Manchildren the both of you.
>>998962
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Ham radio VEC exams, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Non-licensed lid faggots, and I have over 300 confirmed radio kills. I am trained in counter-gorilla warfare and I’m the top RDFer in the entire US ARRL. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe your radio the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with bradcasting that shit all over the bands? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of RDF TOA arrays across the USA and your Radio fingerprint is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, faggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your radio. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can RDF you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my yagi antenna. Not only am I extensively trained in barebones foxhunting, but I have access to the entire antenna book library of the ARRL and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your shitty little “radio array” was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn /k/ike. I will shit High power RF all over you and you will burn in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
>>997961
ROFL! Classic
