ITT: General HVAC discussion
I'm in school and I'd like to hear from some professionals about their experiences in the trade and any tips for a new technician.
>pic is my first dabble in relay logic
>I can't wait until I can just use a defrost board
>>944281
>a defrost board
Brother, shit is much easier when you hear contactors clackin'. I don't do HVAC, but if they clackin and power ain't crackin you got issues. I much prefer 'mechanical' designs over logic boards. One bad relay and the whole board is done for.
>>944286
I see your point as far as the satisfying sound of an electro-mechanical switch closing, but being easier and quicker to troubleshoot is nice. Although when a customer doesn't want to buy the board, I'll know how to bypass it.
>>944281
use proper lifting techniques
>>944296
>easier to troubleshoot
What? If you don't have power out of a contactor, and you do have power in, and the coil has voltage, you have a bad contactor. Logic boards can have software issues, solder issues, part issues, small parts behaving oddly, etc.
It's all preference though. I will say I enjoy charging a grand for a board, where as a contactor is what, 50 bucks? Maybe less. I never see actual cost.
>>944315
Good advice, I've been in construction for almost 15 years. Scaffolding/stucco, structual foam, fence, electrical(residential only) and a little plumbing. I really enjoy brazing copper, soon we'll be soldering soft copper. Stoked to be in this industry.
>>944318
You dont need a tester to see if a contactor isnt closed, i guess there are covered ones but still. I say I think its easier because i dont have much experience, I assume that if the defrost board was bad it'd be obvious. This is why I started the thread, I want some real opinions and advice. (So I came to 4chan)
Get into pharmaceutical equipment service/repair. Lots of refrigeration components in companies with LOTS of money.
>>944318
>Logic boards can have software issues
Sure, blame the software. My software has been running that machine for over a year and suddenly there's a problem?
Then the HVAC repair company doesn't wanna pay my invoice because I didn't "do" anything. Well, you shouldn't have called me to troubleshoot for you.
Yeah, I'm kinda salty.
Signed,
A PLC programmer
>>944351
Awesome reply! Thanks for the heads up on a lucrative field, I dont want to do a lot of fresh installs. I would much rather do repairs and mods.
>>944359
Now i remember, this is a classmates station. I like this pic because of the redundancies.
>>944359
>repairs and mods
That's why I pointed out pharma. These companies have lots of refrigeration equipment and it's super expensive. It is not uncommon to see large equipment that is built into the room/wall/building that is 20+ years old. That means you are in there quarterly (often monthly) to do repairs.
They CANNOT buy new equipment in some cases due to building restrictions (can't physically move/install a new unit) or they have an FDA-approved/validated process that will need to re-validated if they get a new machine.
If you're in California, check out Cascade Scientific. They do exactly what I'm talking about.
>>944367
I'm in Florida but I'll do some research into companies and contractors that advertise for that. I was thinking checks and balances but I need to get better with my math. The one thing I want to strive for is getting my journeymens, I just like the idea of having that title.
I fekken hate boards, contacts, relays & timers shit on boards. So much ease to diagnose compared to trying to find a cracked solder joint or failed part on a bord.
>mfw assembly didn't set the high pressure cutoff correctly and the first stage blows off
How much lifting and how heavy of lifting to HVAC guys do?
>>944392
Carrying your tool bag and lugging gas cylinders. Not much, honestly.
The heaviest thing you'll handle is a replacement compressor. That can be a real bitch depending on the machine and the location.
>>944389
Where?
>>944395
You don't replace condensing RTUs? For walk ins? Or vent fans?
>>944351
Man I deal with PLCs from time to time (automated roulette machines use them)
When they break it's always the fucking relays and shit, the program always just werks.
Except that one time the board fried itself, but that's different.
>>944447
Believe me, I share your pain. However, my school only has so much wire, connectors, devices, and time. Sometimes we spend a majority of lab time trying to find working devices. I will try to make it prettier and better thought out but I'm struggling a bit to fugure this stuff out so I'll studier harder and make my work in the lab more efficient.
>>944723
Where I work, a couple of the PLCs randomly dump their programming. You just have to reload them, but it can be a confusing pain the ass to figure it out if you've not dealt with it before (the PLCs aren't easy to get to and when it stops working entirely, it looks like three or four other different possible problems unless you look at the PLC)...if I were paid enough, I'd bother trying to figure out why they keep dropping programming (replacing the PLC doesn't change anything).
>>944735
Fucky PLCs make roulette machines do funny things, once we had one that would consistently throw the ball in one part of the game, took a week to figure out there was a problem at all, by that time a guy figured it out and made 10k a day.
>>944359
As someone who has done service for the last 10 years or so, it starts to suck.
I spend most of my time driving from service call to service call. When the weather gets bad and everyones shit is breaking they all want you ASAP and it gets stressful. Plus work gets slow in the mid seasons.
Right now Im on a fair sized project. Its a 5 min drive from my condo and i just go there, put in my 8 hours and fuck off. Its glorious. Fuck service.
>>944741
Good to know, you seem like minded to me and I do hate driving Florida roads but I don't like big projects. I get overwhelmed easy but I do enjoy a challenge so I figure that messing with existing systems would be more satisfying.
>>944743
Its probably good to do service in the beginning as its good training. Just look for a way out. If you're anything like my you'll get burnt out. Theres a reason most HVAC guys are divorced alcoholics.
>>944281
LEARN YOUR ELECTRICAL AND BE ABLE TO READ A SCHEMATIC
Going into my first ac season alone and right now I'm in Generac class for generators. Very soon I will have no life.
>>944759
shit.... harsh man.
>>944793
I'm working on it, right now im trying to memorize all ohms laws formulas. Ladder diagrams are easy but schematic scare the hell out of me.
>>944795
im still green but depending on how well i do with the small electronics in hvac, i'll be going back for something else pertaining to that.
>>944803
take anything you can get in HVAC to get started. Trade school promises you the world and it's bs
the only thing my trade school promised me is their class, its up to me if i make anything out of it.
I interned for an MEP firm and did HVAC engineering and commissioning wew ladddeeehhhhh
New set of jbs w low loss
>>944814
Pretty cool, being green the only thing i dare to guess is its 120 volts.
>>944816
Shiny! I'm waiting for school loans to come in then i'll be investing in some tools.
>>945748
Learn your Controls and electrical troubleshooting and you'll be top 10% of techs.
>>944281
Your wiring is shit. But glad to see people are still excited about learning a trade.
>>945984
I like the look, but wouldn't that be a pain in the ass to service without service loops. Seems pretty tight. Fire/security alarm tech here.
>>944759
you just described 75% of the guys I work with, one of them is on his 4th divorce.
I'm enjoying myself so far, been working in the trade for 4 years, just finishing my apprenticeship, I started out doing service but didn't get along with any of the engineers so I got moved to maintenance and install which is decent.
Service sucked because none of the engineers knew what they were doing, one of them as a self branded "chiller expert" but if it wasn't a water flow problem he had no idea what to do, and he was terrible at doing repairs, couldn't braze to save his life.
We were doing a straight swap once on an air conditioning unit and he stupidly told the boss of the company that he could do it in 3 hours so we spent the next 3 hours running round like maniacs because his ego surpassed his actual skill.
I think if the company I work for went under i'd pick a new trade, do CNC or going into building maintenance just something that keeps me busy, theres nothing worse than standing around on site waiting for a unit to vac out
>>945984
why zip ties? are they industry standard? why not loom?
>>945987
Service loops are a necessity for temporary installations or equipment that needs servicing. Protection relays (three big boxes pictured) are permanent; recert testing (needed every 7 years) can be done through test switch blocks. This particular one is a display case I built for our sales guy to show off, otherwise it would have label tags on every termination and most of my techs don't make the bundles as tight and square.
>>946004
Most industrial control wiring is bundled with zip ties. They're cheap and wicked quick to install/remove/replace by the hundreds as needed. The intention again is that once you're done wiring, no one is going to fuck with it unless something catastrophic happens.
>>945984
I'd recognize the ass of some Schweitzer equipment anywhere!
>>946270
Sick, what do you do? SELs are way easier to work with than Beckwith/Basler/ABB/Siemens/Eaton pieces of shit.
>>946274
Oh I'm just in the BS-side (project management) for a GC, but we do a lot of data center power and other random switchgear. Basler, ABB and Siemens are the only other companies I've had experience with. Got to use SEL as it was outdoor gear in Arizona and it can take it!
>>946274
Our install (in GE gear).
>>944735
>randomly dump their programming
Almost always a battery problem. PLCs have a battery inside them to maintain their volatile memory. When this battery starts to fail, it will randomly dump its shit.
>>944281
WTF lol
>>946277
What do you use for the cable labels?
My boss gave me an old ass handheld Dymo label printer for server stuff and it sucks because it gets hot and makes the wires gummy. Pic related.
>>946277
Pretty clean. Better than most installs I run into.
>>946357
I'm this guy >>945984 but the labels I use look pretty similar.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B002FYM0Q6/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
They're heat shrink able, oil resistant, and useable outdoors so they're the only ones we buy since we use them everywhere but they increase the cost of every termination by 50% (factoring in time to do it + materials) They make some way cheaper sleeve labels if you aren't doing it professionally but they either break off or fade after a while which is a headache.
>>946357
>>946390
Forgot to mention, these label printers are the absolute best to take in the field.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00IELD1O4/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr1_1?qid=1455458128&sr=8-1-fkmr1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=brady+xps+labeler
Brady also makes most of the same label sizes on spool cartridges that fit a full keyboard printer which is great for the shop but those cost a bit more.
>>946305
Old as fuck ones had batteries, newer ones have internal flash or a removable SD style card.
>>944367
Cascade huh? My company has had Bill Barry and Tim working on our equipment before and they are pretty good. Met Bill when he came to NY about a year ago, good guy.
>>946305
Sure, for many new systems. But there are still in-production PLCs that have batteries. It's something to watch out for.
Many companies don't like storing programs on SD cards for security reasons.
>>946412
I work with them on pharmaceutical refrigeration equipment. I mainly deal with Courtney and Jason.
OP here. I gotta say, this thread made me laugh. Fuck all you pussy faggots, I'll take my wires and wrap them around your daughters neck while I jam 8 inches in her asshole. I'm gonna wire everything ugly just to spite you pretentious fucks. Butthurt relieved. Thread abandonded.
>>947848
>my lack of professionalism and attention to detail is on purpose
That won't get you very far.
>>944281
dont tell employers you went to school.
especially if you went to RSI.
i graduated with a 4.0 and an associates degree through HVAC school and employers expected a genius. i failed to deliver.
