>fast
>super strong
>inexpensive
It just werks.
>>942078
>inexpensive
Fucking where? They're always like $50 for a piece of plastic with two metal collars in it and a drill bit. I really want one still.
>>942180
Then get a plastic block, a couple metal collars, and a drill bit.
Drill *degree holes in the plastic,
glue the metal collars in
and youre done.
>>942180
Its really dumb that the vise grip is sold separately.
>>942197
Is it though? Most people already have clamps
>>942197
Well if you want their fancy one with the round pad that fits the piece that comes with their clamps....
>>942180
i have one and i paid $70 a few years back
>>942197
I have the master K4 kit.
You are supposed to mount the full K4 base, and the portable base with the face clamp, very much like the K3 in the OPs pic.
I dont use the face clamp to do it though, it points out and just gets in the way. A regular bar clamp points down, so its much better to use.
If you are going to buy one of their specialty clamps, I would recommend their right angle clamps. It is a specialty clamp made to fit the pocket hole perfectly, makes fastening right corners easy. With pocket joints, if you dont have stuff clamped down tight, it will shift and squirm and do all types of shit to move and make your final joints look uneven
>942078
>fast
Very.
>super strong
Eh, depends on what you are using it for. I wouldn't make a sawhorse with them but I wouldn't have a problem doing kitchen cabinets with them. They don't hold up to twisting or lateral forces as well as the better traditional woodworking joints.
>inexpensive
Not really. I have a Kreg jig and it is by far the most expensive non-powered hand tool I own. Plus you have to own a power drill to use it and it needs special screws. I literally paid more for the jig alone then I did for my drill press and the press gets used a lot more.
>>942225
>then I did for my drill press
Where the heck did you get that drill press? The kreg jig is 50 bucks.
>>942434
The k4 is 99, the k4 master us 140, the k5 is 130, the k5 master is 170.
The bench jigs are so much nicer than using just a portable one. bench drill presses are cheap
>>942078
Troll post?
Fast you've got, so easy any dumbshit can do it it's also got, but strength is seriously inferior to a real woodworking joint. I use pocket joints a lot in low strain situations cause they are easy but for strength it's no better then a butt joint.
>>942475
>but strength is seriously inferior to a real woodworking joint
Wrong, it has been scientifically proven that screwing and gluing is stronger than the strongest wood working joint.
We've established and proved this a long time ago.
![23sep%20002.jpg_595[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2ZWTxXJ.jpg "23sep%20002.jpg_595[1].jpg")
>>942434
I got the full sized K4 and paid about $85 for it. I got the drill press for $70 used. Its a Buffalo Forge Model 15 floor standing drill press (pic from google). It has a half inch capacity chuck mounted via Morse taper so I can pop in huge bits if need be.
This thread made me mad, but I shortly thereafter realized, "Hey, it isn't MY furniture that's going to look like shit and fall apart in 5 years."
:-)
>>942533
The resident autist disagrees.
https://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/pockethole.html
>>942566
I agree that he's wrong, but that article is irrelevant.
>screw and glue is strongest
>pocket holes are weaker than dowel joints and much weaker than mortise and tenon.
>B does not invalidate A because no glue was used in test
>>942591
Ah be he has done tests with glue that shows that the addition of glue does not increases the strength of a pocket screw joint because the glue always fails before the screws do.
>check and mate
>>942591
Nice job only reading half the article fartsicle. He clearly states in the second half that he did another battery of tests with glued pocket screw joints and found that the glue improved the strength of the joints AT MOST by 25 pounds of force. Glued and screwed joints still failed under a load that was 60 pounds less than the WEAKEST of the traditional joints.
If you average everything out a glued pocket screw jointed was still only HALF AS STRONG as a mortise and tenon with plain old yellow glue.
Is this supposed to be an advertisement?
>>942078
I said bitch where
>>942566
>https://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/screwjack.html
I hate this guy.
Also:
>without glue average 99 lbs
>with glue average 111 lbs
>conclusion GLUE DOES NOT MAKE JOINT STRONGER
He's a fucking idiot. I don't really care which is stronger than which, but this guy is a fucking retard.
>>942711
>grandma gives kreg jig for jewmas
>finds Matthias on YouTube
>I can't stand this guy
![mad-o-meter-pic[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/3b281du.gif "mad-o-meter-pic[1].gif")
>>942711
>My four joints completely failed at 95, 120, 75, and 105 pounds
>The failure loads of the pocket hole joints were 115, 130, 115, 75 and 120 pounds
Yeah boy, you are right. That glue sure made a different with those shit joints. Oh wait, no it didn't. The failures is the first test were between 75 and 120 pounds and they were 75 and 130 pounds in the second. Thats less than a 10% difference on the top end and the same values on the low end. That could be down a screw getting a bite into a denser bit of wood on a test. Otherwise it was all well within the same scatter pattern.
Meanwhile mortise and tenon joints with a verity of glues ranged from 180 pounds of force on the low end to 270 on the high. Good thing you spent all that money on a Kreg instead of learning how to make a real woodworking joint.
>>942744
>I haven't the first clue how to statistics
>I'm getting upset and having to defend muh traditional woodworking and attack you for buying some jig because I'm too stupid to realize the entire point of that post was to attack that retarded asshole who made that site.
Dude, literally, I don't give a shit. I don't do any wood working at all. I can't make a box that's remotely square and don't care to learn. I was kinda curious about how strong they were and followed a link to find a sparkling asshole of the autismal variety.
>>942711
He stated that the butt joints failed, on average, past the 40lb point; whereas the strength increase was less than 15lb. This suggested that the cause of failure was that the torquing motion along the pocket holes. Although the glue likely made the joint firmer for the first couple of pounds, the torque about the top ripped apart the glue and the majority of it was irrelevant, except for the final tiny bit of glue at the top of endgrain when the wood finally sheared along the screws. This "smug asshole" was trying to demonstrate that glue+pocketholes didn't matter in the tests he made in the previous video; it would've been a far different story if the piece was wider or if the test wasn't based on solely torque. The mere point was to prove that his previous video was accurate enough to describe the use of that joint in that particular situation, regardless of if he needed to add adhesive.
Endgrain operations without some sort of penetration into the facegrain is just not the strongest solution, but it will work in a pinch like for a stool or a shelf. Also, traditional joints can yield and compress into the face grain so that's another thing to watch out for and depends on the amount of glue used.
