Hi /diy/
I have just had a new boiler installed and the wire from the boiler to the thermostat was too short. The installer came round and extended it with a connector like in the picture.
In the UK is this:
-safe?
-legal?
I spoke to him and he said it is a date cable and therefore safe, but I'd like to check. I've not yet paid, should I refuse to pay the full price and get someone else to redo the wiring?
Thanks
*data cable
For reference, he said it is bell wire.
Also, it is NOT in any sort of casing. It looks exactly like the picture.
>>913136
Yes, that is quite fine. If you are still worried, just wrap it with electrical tape.
>>913139
Okay, so there's no worry about fire or anything?
Should I pay full price for the work, or should I ask that they redo it?
You'll be waiting a while for a qualified boiler fitter and/or electrician to show up.
Those fittings are commonly found in light fittings, take that how ever you like.
>>913141
He has agreed to come come back tomorrow to redo it. I will pay a chunk up-front and the rest after it's done. He's probably pretty annoyed as it's turned a 2-day job into a 4-day job, but it's going to be sorted out. It's his fault in the first place though really, for not allowing any insurance length on the wire (it just about reached on the first day, but came loose when working yesterday).
Thanks anons
>>913143
It should not take that long.
All it would take is him coupling new wire on to the old wire and as he pulls out the old wire the new wire comes through. As it was not any heavy load cable I wouldn't have even bat an eye at those connectors. But whatever.
30 mins max if he has a cup of tea and sits on the phone for 15 mins.
>>913138
From what I gather its a low volt wire which is what's normal here in the states. With low volt you can get away with not having a junction box or conduit on exposed wiring.
That or our electricians and electrical inspectors are idiots.
>>913145
>It should not take that long.
Alright thanks. Like I said, this will be the 4th time they've come out - I doubt they'll be keen to stay.
>As it was not any heavy load cable I wouldn't have even bat an eye at those connectors.
This is the impression I've got, but my aunt rang me about it and then demanded to speak to the guy. She's.....persistent, to say the least when he's complaining.
That said, I'm paying close to £3000 for this job, so it should be done properly. Also, the disconnect between the boiler and the thermostat made the central heating run non-stop last night on full. It's the middle of December and I literally had to open the windows because it was so hot indoors.
>>913146
I think you're right and I'm pretty sure it's safe. Still, an unbroken wire is less likely to cause problems.
>That or our electricians and electrical inspectors are idiots.
When doing some research about it, I did see a lot of UK-based electricians insinuating this.
>>913147
>unit ran all night
In b4 not shutting off the power to the unit at the breaker
>>913152
I considered turning it off, but I didn't want to chance messing anything up. I didn't know if it might wipe the settings - I figured it would be best just to wait for them, so they couldn't try to wriggle out of anything by claiming it was my fault.
>>913155
>>913136
>>913143
>>913147
My god. I'd be annoyed too.
Yes it's legal.
Yes it's safe.
Yes it's absolutely normal for joining wires in the UK.
These connectors are rated to 3kw of mains electricity. They absolutely are safe for a tenth of the voltage and a ten-thousandth of the power.
You clearly know nothing about electricity, yet you keep second-gessing someone who does. You constantly fail to apply common sense: if losing power "wiped the settings or something", then after every power-cut you'd need a hit squad of settings-unwipers to sweep the neighbourhood.
How can you keep up such a sanctimonious, indignant attitude, when it's you that's the stupid, ignorant party?
>>913165
UK has a bad rap for professionals being shit at what they do, particularly in the uncivilized North. I don't blame OP for redflagging something he is not 100% sure of.
There are lots of white niggers over there.
I'm not a boiler fitter by any stretch but my understanding was that demand cables usually carry mains voltage because its much simpler that way.
The connector in and of itself is perfectly fine however it must be rated for the load, these connectors come in a wide variety of size and therefore current carrying capability. You need to ensure the connector can handle the current regardless of voltage. The connector needs to be in a proper enclosure, the wires connected to it need proper strain relief. There should be no possibility of someone pulling on a cable causing strain on the connector.
The wires must be properly terminated, the insulation should continue to just inside the housing, no bare copper should be visible.
If it really was bell wire then it should have had a bootlace ferrule crimped on before being used in a screw connector like this.
Finally don't even fucking think about wrapping that shit in any kind of tape. It doesn't make it safe it just makes it sticky.
If I'm in a bad mood I'll refuse a job that's to sticky.
>>913168
While I deplore the use of certain wording in this comment, this comment. We have so many unscrupulous tradesmen in this country it is a real wonder the whole place doesn't just burn to the ground. OP being paranoid about the quality of the wiring, when OP is not an electrician/installer himself? Completely founded in accepted common sense because very few people actually knows what those things are for - I've been told conflicting things by multiple people, several of them supposedly 17th Edition qualified.
Yes, they're safe enough, if properly used, but the consensus among my colleagues is that they are a temporary install until the job can be done properly.
>>913174
>deplore the use of certain wording
Hey, if those Brits separate themselves by Latitudinal location then why can't I use the N word to specify the region I am talking about.
>>913177
Yew wot?
>>913165
>You clearly know nothing about electricity, yet you keep second-gessing someone who does.
>You clearly know nothing about electricity
Of course not, why would I make a thread about it if I already knew? I tried to research it, but the information was conflicting and very often based on US electrical systems.
>My god. I'd be annoyed too.
Yes, because you probably take pride in your work and would have done the work properly first time around.
>if losing power "wiped the settings or something", then after every power-cut you'd need a hit squad of settings-unwipers to sweep the neighbourhood.
I didn't spell it out, but I would have imagined you could have worked out the important part of that post. I didn't want to give them ANY wiggle room to blame me for issues. I had literally filled in the warranty card a few hours earlier, so there was no way it would have been submitted.
>>913168
>>913174
These anons have got the point. A lot of of the work they have done is a bit messy, but serviceable. I don't want to take any chances with the electrics though.
You are right that I don't understand the workings of the system. However, I think you have it backwards:
Your view:
>I don't understand the electrics
>Don't question what appears to be a makeshift fix, even though they could be cutting corners to get the money sooner.
My view (and the other anons):
>I don't understand the electrics
>Be wary of a flimsy and unprotected connection in a system for which I am paying thousands.
>>913168
>uncivilized
Spot on anon. I'm in a nicer part of the North, but I am adjacent to some rougher areas.
>>913136
>legal?
yes
>safe?
yes
be it data or power lines, those screw terminals are always fine. alternatives are twist wire connectors and push-in terminals. just make sure you use the proper ratings (wire thickness and rated amperage).
>>913136
If its a data cable and bell wire then anything goes as long as it doesn't come undone. BS might be different to EN standards, but EN doesn't strictly govern very low voltage installs. There are good practices, for sure, but no regulations which you could break and fail an inspection with.
As its been many times said in the thread, screw terminals are the standard for solid wire connections.
>>913136
yes its perfectly fine, stop being an idiot about something youre clueless on.
as if you have any sense youve checked that the guy you employed has a gas safe cert or a corgi cert or an oftec cert, hopefully at least 2 of these, therefore he knows what hes doing , and the ramifications are huge if he has those and fucks it up.
so a) dont be a prat and let the guy do his job
or b) worry youve fucked up and then actually hire someone with certification otherwise you are asking for trouble.
>>913217
>yes its perfectly fine
That has already been ascertained.
>stop being an idiot about something youre clueless on
I've already addressed this point. It was a 'better safe than sorry' situation. I couldn't find much info on these connectors, but some sites suggested they could be a fire hazard. I now know that that's not an issue, but it's not something on which I wanted to take a chance.
>gas safe cert
Yeah, gas safe. I know there are massive ramifications if they perform dangerous work. Even if the work is safe, it doesn't automatically mean it will be particularly good or long-lasting. This is what I wanted to ask.
>dont be a prat and let the guy do his job
The only reason this situation arose is because he messed up the wiring in the first place. I think I have the right to be a little skeptical.
>>913168
If you think the North is uncivilized never visit London, its like New Delhi.
Slums everywhere.
>>913225
Should have used these and told you to fuck off. I run wires how I like for one price and if the customer starts being a dick it switches to $150 an hour.
>>913238
You go ahead and keep pretending you are a hard ass like that. Either you aren't or you will have to find a different line of work because you become known as "good at trade but not worth the attitude". I have fired people who are the best at what they do but they behave like outright faggots and are impossible to work with/loose business.
>>913165
This. Holy fuck I'd be mad. I wouldn't re-run shit unless it was at an hourly rate.
OP is lucky he was dealing with some broke ass nigga willing to jump through hoops for the payment.
Hell why'd you stop there? I would have had him mow my yard, wash my car, fuck his wife, drink his beer and kick his dog before payment.
>>913136
The first step is not country-based. The first step is knowing if it's low or high voltage. Most HVAC system controls are low voltage and are safe to connect in pretty well every way. High voltage would use thick wires and everything would be connected in junction boxes.
The connectors you have are standard European connectors for any voltage. High voltage would be connected in a box, low don't need to be.
You're fine, stop whining and annoying your installer.
>>913136
>>913143
>As a part owner of a small business.
If a customer does this to me, and it will take less than a hour or two to fix it, we just do it.
Otherwise, I go over the contract with him and very calmly explain the work is done in a safe and legal way, we can make the requested changes but that will be a service call or change order.
If he is refusing to pay, I inform him I'd have to pursue legal action and would disable the new system for refusal to pay.
>Its never gotten past this.
>>913281
Finally. Someone from the real fucking world.
>>913275
>low or high voltage
British Standard BS 7671:2008 defines supply system low voltage as:
50–1000 V AC or 120–1500 V ripple-free DC between conductors;
50–600 V AC or 120–900 V ripple-free DC between conductors and Earth.
>>913253
Unless you're a general contractor that is trying to blacklist me, I literally do not give a shit if one household doesn't like the wiring options I'm giving them. I'll sit around and fuck around fishing walls and crawling through your attic and all that fucking bullshit but that'll cost you.
If you're a GC, then I would have done it right the first time by the book and there wouldn't have been a fucking problem
If I'm doing some residential bullshit and I'm actually trying to help the customer out by repairing a wire or putting a splice in, and then the customer doesn't like it, then he's getting charged for a new line. I'm not rolling that into my quote. My quote was to do it the way I wanted to. Yeah, fuck it, I'm 'losing work' but I'm making more by not dealing with this bullshit.
This is 4chan. II'm just here to prove op is a faggot.
>>913290
I think you autistic Brits know what I mean.
>>913143
He could just use a junction box. You know, because electrical connectors are not mechanical connectors. In wall its not a problem. But for data cables, there are special gel filled crimp connectors. And your faggot installer should not be running wires. Installing that should have been a two man job. One bloke does the plumbing, one does the electrical.
>>913204
>standard
>in appliance chassis
>same regulation as in wall/hanging from ceiling
>>913136
they use those connectors in whirlpool dishwashers to connect the control board thermal limit... it runs fine with several amps of 110 running through it in a semi wet environment... shouldn't have any problems with thermostat wire
>>913136
Is that connector someplace you can get to it (without knocking a hole in the wall or something)? If yes, don't sweat it.
I've mentioned some of the points that several anons have raised to the installer. However, he said he was perfectly okay with redoing the wiring regardless.
As the work is now complete, I will delete this thread.
>>913136
it's thermostat wire
it's fine
In the US you just use wire nuts
>>913470
>it's thermostat wire
>it's fine
Yeah, that's what everyone has told me. Like I said, I mentioned this to the guy, but he said he was fine to redo it.
>>913468
Turns out I can't delete the thread. Idk if /diy/ has an active janitor, but if so, they may as well remove this thread. The work is complete and so the thread is no longer necessary.
I don't get it, I really don't. Maybe it's because I'm not an electrician and it's an acquired behavior, but I would never do anything less than the best I can do regardless of how much I'm being paid, because people come to me mostly through word of mouth and my reputation on the whole is worth more than those 30 additional minutes it would take me to give the customer a solution that satisfies them.
Professionalism is not just measured in the quality of your work, but in your attitude towards a paying or even potential customer. How you think acting smug and salty to your customer is good business is completely beyond me.
>>913554
Getting salty:
Hoarders. Maybe the first time you try and do it good. Then they call your boss and leave a bad review anyway. The next time they seem upset you're not really excited to be working in a swarm of flies and Christian brothers bottles and god knows what else. No they want you to fish the wall and go through the crawlspace because they don't want to see the wire because they are insane.
Then you get called out on a damage. It's like 20.000$ because someone didn't call Usa. Someone could be dead, but they got lucky. No ome in the neighborhood will say who did or who drove off with the cable, but they know. They blame you somehow.
It's 180 fucking degrees in their attic and they want you to go in there to run the wire when you could just poke it through a hole and be done.
Naw fuck nitpicky customers. They are insane and not worth it. The customer is almost always wrong. I am not covering up 20.000 damage for a twenty. I am not getting In your attic for a twenty. I am not giving you a free jack for a twenty (I have for people that seem hard up when I think I can get away with it, but never for a tip). I am not going 500' around your house for the same cost I quoted you for going 20.
>>913554
But see, we're not talking about "best" and "not best", because the customer in this case is not qualified to make that judgement.
The device in OP is one of the most well-known electrical devices in the country. It's the UK equivalent of the wire nut, and OP is the equivalent of "my installer used this weird thing <picture of wire nut>. I don't trust him. I don't think he's qualified because this thing looks weird. I think he's trying to trick me".
When someone is that far up Mount Stupid, there's no way you can win. You can't do the job right, because they're not capable of assessing what "right" is. Really all you can do is hope that your appearance meets his prejudices, which OP's electrician's clearly didn't.
>>913472
He said he'd redo it because he doesn't want you to bad mouth his company for doing something that isn't even dangerous he'd rather take the 10 extra minutes and make it 1 straight run of wire
>>913136
electricianfag here, if its a data cable then its completely safe, the voltage in it is propably so low that you could lick the conncector screws and not even feel it
OP here again - was browsing /diy/ for another thread and noticed this had been bumped. At the risk of riling some irascible anons, I thought I'd clear up some stuff.
>>913618
>I don't trust him. I don't think he's qualified because this thing looks weird.
Not sure if you read the whole thread, but I did mention that there had been issues with the work (genuine issues - not like this connector stuff). If I had more available time in these next few weeks, I may have considered stopping the work and going with another company. I didn't go into much detail as I didn't think it would be relevant to the thread - I was just looking for a quick yes/no on whether the connectors are any good.
>hope that your appearance meets his prejudices
I actually wasn't too bothered about this connector thing at first. I was talking to someone else about it and they suggested that the connectors are bad news. This set off alarm bells (given the aforementioned problems) and I decided to check with /diy/.
>>913993
>he doesn't want you to bad mouth his company
I am not someone who will bad mouth a company unless they do a very poor job. The term I used earlier was 'serviceable'. On the other hand, I won't be recommending it either. Your assumption is inaccurate - the connector is certainly not the make-or-break issue here.
Two days to install a boiler? Wtf..
And you sound like a massive gay faggot for not trusting a Man who does that as a full time job. You filthy fag.
>>913172
Yeah if you buy the cheapest tape..
