sup /diy/,
I tried /o/ but they keep telling me (an anon with bugger all wrench time and no real space to work) to just do an engine swap. Well, one guy does, no one else is responding. to keep this TL;DR check out the details on /o/, will repost here if and when that thread dies.
>>>/o/13946618
Long story short, I think it's a blown headgasket but before I commit to buying tools and parts I would like a confirm, or at least some suggestions of other things to check before I go pulling the head off. There is no water in the oil or other signs of head trouble, but I can't think of anything else that would see this much oil pissing out of the top of the engine.
Thoughts?
>>907807
it could be a cracked engine, which you are fucked and needs to get it tested
>>907809
That's.. Ambiguous..
Considering the leak appears to be at the top of the engine, would a compression test confirm that? Engine runs fine otherwise, delivers power as it should across all RPM ranges, I imagine a crack in the head/block would have an impact on that.
>>907810
no one can tell you what is wrong unless you do a test, there is no magic over the internet can tell you without it
>>907813
> no one can tell you what is wrong unless you do a test, there is no magic over the internet can tell you without it
Go hang out on /o/ sometime, all sorts of shit gets diagnosed correctly via the magic of the internet.
> do a test
That's what i'm asking you.. What test..?
Why not start with simpler things instead of hopping right into head gasket.
Valve cover gasket is a good start
>>907833
I can see the entirety of where the valve cover mates to the head, and after degreasing a few days ago its clear the oil is leaking from a lower point than the valve cover. There is no new oil anywhere around the valve cover seals. Next stop was the head gasket.
>>907838
above the oil pan gasket?
>>907807
Between the cam cover and the bottom of the head there are still several sources where oil could come from.
Seeing as most of the oil is on your gearbox I would try AROUND that side first.
Your distributor for instance.
Also you asked in an ausfag thread. You will never get anywhere in there.
The test that everyone is talking about in here is a compression test. But although it is nice to know, a compression test is rarely the first step in finding an oil leak because they often have no correlation. if you simply keep looking you will find the source.
1st of all, what year and model is the shitbox in question? How much oil are you losing? Are you losing coolant as well?
2nd, are you experiencing other head gasket symptoms?
white smoke from tail pipe?
oil in coolant?
coolant in oil?
coolant boil over?
significantly down on power?
glowing catalytic?
3rd have you called around about a junkyard engine to rebuild and swap?
4th, its probably the cam cover gasket leaking. its a rubber gasket, and reusable, so change it and see if that helps, if it doesn't help you can reuse it on the next round.
5th ive worked on a few zetecs, the oil coming out the bottom of the trans is from the rear main seal, im not absolutely sure, but i dont believe you can change it without removing either the engine or the trans. Even if you do replace the rear main, you will likely continue to experience leaking here because of blow-by with 200k on engine.
also post another pic like >>13946636 but a bit farther away
>>907816
>all sorts of shit gets diagnosed correctly via the magic of the internet.
Even if this was true, you'd still need to do some real test to confirm it.
OP, in my experience, head gasket failure usually leads to mixing of coolant and oil or loss of coolant, not leaking oil. The cylinders are usually pretty well surrounded by water jackets, meaning if you're leaking oil, the first place its going to go is into the coolant, not outside the engine. Check if you've got oily coolant or watery oil.
>>907938
It is possible to have an external oil only leak through a head gasket but it is the least probable.
You have one or few "pressure" oil passages leading up to the top of the head and after the oil is applied it drains down through larger drain passages.
Thing is a regular headgasket failure will very unlikely happen near the the flow passages because they are often right next to the head bolts. Unless it is by assembly error.
Alternatively if one of the drain passages have had the gasket fail near them you are still unlikely to have anything flow out because there is a slight vacuum in the crank case.
Both of these situations are unlikely.
What we should not be doing is considering an engine fucking rebuild just because there is a slight weep.
They kind of shitbox doesn't matter and he already stated in the other thread that his only symptom is the oil leak.
OP just needs to look a little harder.
>>907949
Slight weep up top can be particularly hard to detect as the oil may look clear on the engines surface but then accumulates dirt on the way down.
>>907807
Op im on mobile ill get back to this later. But I can tell you for sure, Its leaking oil.
>>907840
Correct.
>>907842
Most of this is covered in the /o/ thread, but yes, I have established which side of the engine the oil is coming from, right side, front AND back around the top of #4 cyl. Higher than the manifolds but lower than the valve cover. Will see if I can track down someone with a compression tester and have at it, local shop might lend me one for 5 minutes to check. I'm getting more and more convinced its the gasket, I just don't wanna go lifting the head without ensuring all other potentialities are covered.
> distributor
Come on bro, you're an /o/ fag and you can't tell the difference between a coil pack and a dizzy..?
>>907928
Chassis really doesn't matter as its not the thing leaking oil, but this is wrapped in a 2004 Ford Focus CL. Engine is a 2.0 Zetec-E.
As per my OP post, there are literally no other signs of failure of the gasket, no fluid mixing, no smokey exhaust, and no overheating or other signs of coolant underperformance over the past few 100+ degree days we've been having. Engine is pulling as it should across all RPM ranges.
> crank seals
..were my first thought as well given the location, but thankfully a degrease has allowed me to determine the oil is leaking out from a higher point than the crank. Cam pulleys are up the other end of the engine so those seals are moot.
> cam cover gasket
It's on the shopping list, hasn't been changed since I have had it and while it has full service history from the PO I can't tell if it has been done. Pic will come shortly, I'm out and about at the moment.
>>907949
Interdasting.
>>907950
Tell me about it -_-
>>907955
Thanks for the confirm bro, any idea why it's running down? Being hotter than ambient air I'd expect it to float up to the underside of the bonnet, any ideas why this is not happening?
>>908064
You are still assuming it is the headgasket. Why?
You still need to check all the components on the head that have an oil seal.
>>908082
Have you pulled that shield off the cam cover?
DEAR OP WHY DONT YOU JUST TAKE IT TO A FUCKING MECHANIC, ITS CLEAR YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO TAKE ADVICE FROM PEOPLE OFFERING IT AND ARE STILL CONVINCED ITS THE HEAD GASKET WHEN YOU SAID THERE ARE NO SYMPTOMS OF THIS
JESUS FUCK... there comes a time when you just need a PROFESSIONAL OPINION to find the problem... like others have said there is no magical answer on the internet. without SEEING THE ENGINE or BEING THERE WHILE ITS LEAKING, there is nothing else we can do other than to TELL YOU possible leak sources. and since you dont have any tools or experience doing this... GO TO A MECHANIC
its not rocket science man.. oh and also dotn ask for advice on /o/ they are fucking retarded
>>908082
> Why?
Because best as I can tell, there is literally nothing up this end of the head that flows oil or has a seal for oil. There is the coil pack and the thermostat housing, that's it. If there were other signs of a gasket failure, milky coolant etc, none of these threads would exist. I'd already have the head off and be swearing my tits off at all the shit I was doing wrong, but the ball would be rolling. As there are no other signs of gasket failure I am not sure if it is the gasket or if it could be something else I am not aware of, hence my questions.
I'm about to go hunting for some tear downs/diagrams to see if I can verify an oil channels at that location though, thanks for highlighting that possibility. Cam cover seal is on the shopping list for good measure.
> Avoid a learning experience by paying someone to do something that can be done with a little research and some planning.
Why are you on /diy/?
>>908100
Did you look under the coil pack? And behind that heat shield between the exhaust and the cam cover?
>>908064
>>908100
You should be able to find the leak source now that you have cleaned off the engine with degreaser. just pay attention to where oil is coming from.
A compression test will tell you if you have low compression on a cylinder, but it will not help you to understand why. Low compression could be any number of valve problems, sticking piston rings, damaged cylinder walls/ pistons, etc. If you really want more information you should perform a leak down test. This will give you a much better idea of where an internal leak is coming from. When performing a leak down can you hear air seeping from anywhere? can you hear it from the dipstick? Do you hear valves being pushed open? etc.
I'm not very familiar with the ford zetec engines, but I am curious where is the PCV on your engine? Are you getting excessive oil blow by and puking oil from the PCV or breather?
Is the engine way overfull with oil? Has it been overfull before? This could push out seals on the engine.
Where is your oil filter located? Does the oil filter screw into an oil cooler? Have you ever overtightened it and spun the cooler?
Is there a plug where a tech could install an oil pressure gauge in order to test the engine? Where is that located? Is it leaking?
Where is your Crank position sensor located? Could that be leaking?
Off the top of my head these are the first things I would check.
>>908100
there is an oil passage in that corner of the head. pic related
i have never seen a head gasket fail from an oil passage. i suppose it is possible
>>908145
Clean as a whistle under the coils, but I think I just found something, and I think >>908167 has called it. Also, I just learned what a PCV valve is. Didn't realise there was an oil bearing line down there.
I pulled the exhaust shield off to get an eye on the head/block interface, nothing to see there. Spotted a touch of oil running down the PCV valve where it enters its return point, the rubber hose mates to a metal tube bolted to the head under the thermo housing, then back to rubber hose aft of the head for the rest of the run. Tracking back to its other end (under the fuel rail) it feels like the hose has collapsed onto itself at a bend point, but again, can't see it without pulling the rails out and I don't have time to throw it back up on jack stands right now and check from beneath. Blue arrow indicates new oil, this area was cleaned two days ago. I'm now wondering if that intersection under the thermo is leaking or if that collapsed hose is fucking shit up. Might be up for some new oil lines.
>>908167
This is a fucking goldmine of diagnostic steps, thank you anon, I'll have a look at the PCV lines over the next day or so and if all seems well I'll investigate each of these. While I was googling around for the pic related diagram of that hose system I found a forum full of focusfags raging that neither the service manifest or hayes manuals mention that this valve needs to be replaced every 80K clicks or so as it tends to gum up and seize. Add that to the list of plastic rubbish in these engines that needs routine replacement -_-
Meanwhile I've done the last two oil changes on this thing, filling it with the amount listed in the manual, so I'm confident to strike that off the list for now. It's currently slowing 1/2 on the dipstick so it's deffo not overfilled as she sits. Certainly easier to see the new oil after the degrease, its just a latter of getting an eyeball on where it's actually coming from.
Appreciate your time gents.
>>908187
Awesome, thanks for the confirm man.
>>908187
Turbo ?
>>908209
Nah, that's the stock inlet manifold. Like most of the plastic under the hoods of these things, it would blow to bits if you tried to boost it.
>>908192
I'm >>908167 I work on mostly VW stuff. 1.8l VW turbo motors in golf/jetta/passat/audi a4 all have pcv leak issues. Where do the PCV lines go to? On an AEB passat for example there is a secondary valve that runs into the intake tract. It's really easy to pull this valve and check it for oil consumption. It will be filthy and covered in oil.
If the valve is clogged too much pressure could be building up in the crankcase and causing leaks from seals just like an oil overfilled engine.
Your PCV really should not be puking tons of oil if operating properly. If it is you could have a bad PCV, bad piston rings allowing excessive blow by, etc. Does the engine run high RPMs often? This can cause higher than normal blow by.
You could have an internal engine problem.
If you were my customer I would recommend that you let me do a leak down test. This could tell us if you have bad piston rings. I would probably also hook up an oil pressure gauge and measure what oil pressure looks like.
How does your intake tract look after the point where the PCV lines flow back into it? Is there a ton of oil built up on the tract? If so you are probably burning oil. Does the car produce smoke? Is the smoke more noticeable on startup?
If the PCV is bad then replace it. Have you considered installing a catch can? Have you thought about disconnecting the PCV from the intake tract and running it into the atmosphere? Can you do this and pass emissions where you live?
When you fill it with oil do you follow the guidelines for with a filter or without? This can make a huge difference. What does the dipstick look like after an oil change? Is it high? Is it low? is it right in the middle?
>>908243
Where do the PCV lines go to?
Inset pic in >>908192 shows where the valve sits into what appears to be a small tank at the front of the engine, to the right of and beneath the #4 exhaust outlet. The other end attaches somewhere beneath the intake manifold on the rear of the engine. I just got home and once it cools I'ma throw it up on stands and check the hose, as I say, it felt like it had crushed at the bend under the intake; if the hose has never been replaced its reasonable to assume its degraded and collapsed under vacuum (especially if the valve is stuck)
I don't think it's the PCV directly (though it seems its over 100,000 clicks overdue for a replace, no record of it on service history and it's not part of A B or C service), I believe it might be at either the forward or aft end of part 7 (metal pipe) in the inset diagram that is dumping oil. If the hose is degraded enough to collapse, it's fair to assume its degraded enough to leak at this junction. Haven't pulled the PCV valve yet but I can get an OEM hose and valve kit for $97, so even if the PCV is good, its getting replaced. Haven't had a look at the intake end of the lines for oil, but I'm not blowing smoke nor can I smell it burning in the engine bay or exhaust.
> leak down test
Looking at what it entails it seems pretty straight forward and fast to do, I might be able to find a friendly mechanic who can run the test for me. Prolly worth a check anyway on an engine with this many km's on it.
> Have you considered installing a catch can? etc
Never heard of them till now, though I can see how they would be helpful. I have no idea about the rest. Let me do some googling and i'll get back to ya.
Filter always gets swapped with oil, capacity with filter is 4.25 litres. I usually dump in 4 litres, run the engine so it circulates, then top up to full by measuring out another 200mL. With the oil left on the surfaces of the engine this usually puts me right on the max marker on the stick.
>>908192
I just wanted to let you know that leaking from anywhere around the Air cavity in tye head is normal with excessive oil pressure or blowby pressure. Simply changing the oil can fix this. Is your oil fresh and clean or black and niggish?
>>908294
Oil is 3,600 kilometers old, still fairly clear (IMHO) and doesn't smell like burning. It's only been the last week or so it's really gone apeshit on the leak, and I spend enough time under the bonnet to notice if anything has changed otherwise (given it's high kilometers I tend to nose around under the hood every month or so looking for shit going wrong, and degrease every 6 so I can see new leaks if and when they kick off). Will keep it in mind though.
These have a history of bad valve cover gaskets around cylinder 4. I've seen em weep down the side onto the thermostat housing and be hard as hell to see.
I wouldn't even touch anything else on the zetecs without replacing that first and seeing where you're at.
>>908286
The PCV system is an emission control system. It takes excess crankcase pressure and routes it into the air intake of the car. That way noxious oil vapors get burned by then engine rather than going into the environment. Do you need a crankcase vent? Yes. Does it need to flow back into the air intake? Possibly.
Bear with me here as I'm about to oversimplify this for the sake of brevity. Modern engines measure the air that the engine is sucking in in order to meter fuel from the injectors. This is done by using either a Mass Air Flow sensor (MAF) which measures air before it hits the intake manifold. Or a Mass Air Pressure sensor (MAP) which usually measures air pressure in the intake manifold. The MAF method is generally more of a pain in the ass for tuning, as well as regular maintenance. If the MAF gets dirty the engine will throw codes and perform poorly as the fuel mixture changes. MAP sensors are less problematic, and are easier to tune.
If there is excessive oil blow by there is likely oil all over the interior of the air intake after the point where the PCV line connects to it. If the PCV connects to the air intake before the MAF sensor then oil from the line can foul the sensor and cause problems. In this case if you do not have to pass inspection then install a catch can, and do not have the pcv throw dirty oily crankcase puke into the MAF.
If the PCV dumps into the air intake after the MAF sensor then there are conflicting opinions. Some say that you must leave it connected because the air is already metered by the MAF. Performance issues will occur as you are changing that air that the sensor has already measured going into the engine. Others say that it does not matter since crankcase vapors are not air.
If your car has a MAP sensor then none of the above really matters since air is measured in the manifold.
In any case. PCV before MAF, PCV after MAF, or MAP...
>>908766
a catch can is not a bad idea. I would not recommend buying one as it is only a can to catch oil. There are plenty of guides out there on how to make your own for very cheap. I would recommend getting an aluminum beer bottle, or energy drink bottle and using that as your catch can.
I have worked on a LOT of GMs. Only ford I have ever worked on was my dad's truck. My sister had a chevy that had a leak at the head gasket many years ago. Since it was a worn out POS All I did was retorque the head to manufacturer specs and it quit. Don't know much about fords though, especially the new ones. One method that worked for me on that particular car, (Like I said it was a worn out POS) was I used some universal refrigerant dye that my dad used at work. Found the leak after cleaning the engine, putting about a tablespoon in and running a UV light over it about 3 days later. It's worth a shot maybe?
Lads while we're here, what the shit is a GP Wire? And a LDS?
I'm working ON A PASSAT AND SEE THESE IN THE FORUMS
>>908295
That oil is fucked. Its not time to change the oil once its black. Oil is changed when its degraded which wont show on a visual inspection. Once it changed to that color, that is a sign of a problem. Time to increase oil change frequency to 1000km until it stops turning to shit as soon as it hits the sump. Also, is it tye stock viscosity? Do not listen to faggots who tell you that older engines need thicker oil, this is pure faggotry and has no basis in reality. >but muh piston rings
My old daewoo used to do this. Took five oil changes at 1000km with 5-30w fully synthetic penrite and a new filter each time to clear it out. Now it goes to 5000km without changing color.
Also another cause of oil burning can be transmission fluid being worn out. Change the transmission fluid(usually wont show any visual signs of decay) and see if it runs better. The only time i see black transmission fluid is in autos that havnt been serviced in 20 years. Because muh sealed for life never needs an oil change 60 000km/3 years factory warranty. Which basically means that you dont need to change a sealed transmissions fluid in tue first three years of ownership.
Tl;dr if the transmission overheats this heat goes into the engine oil.
Also acidity like fuel farting into the oil turns it black. But fresh regular oil i have found to fix this problem by cleaning up the oil galleys.
Zetecs are known for valve cover gaskets taking a shit and pouring oil all over your engine. Replace or rule that out first as its way cheaper and easier than a head gasket.
>>908878
I don't understand how trans heat gets to engine oil?
>>909070
Presumably by them being made of metal and in direct contact with each other?
>>908851
A GP is a GlowPlug, a device that heats the cylinder on a Diesel so that it's hot enough for the fuel to self-ignite.
Therefore the GP wire is the wire that powers it.
I assume an LDS is a misspelled LSD.
>>908878
Changing oil every 1000km is COMPLETELY overkill, man.
I change the oil in my car every 20000km and when I change it it's not black yet.
>>909192
Also, that oil looks fine.
A bit old, but it's not "fucked" by any stretch of the imagination.
>>909192
>I change the oil in my car every 20000km and when I change it it's not black yet.
thats way too long, 15000km is stretching fully synthetic oils.
>>909197
The manufacturer says it's good for 30.000.
>>909199
Sure it does, and coolant manufacturers also say their coolant lasts 250,000km.
Doesnt mean its true
>>909213
Do you still gap your spark plugs?
>>909237
Spark plugs now come pregapped
I check them, but they are usually within range.
What point are you exactly trying to make?
That they say not to gap them anymore?
>>907807
ASE certified mechanic here, this thread has some information but most is shit, be careful who you listen to.
The here is the best way to pinpoint an oil leak
1. find out what is leaking (what type of fluid is it? is your power steering low? no? then its not your fucking power steering.
2 once you know what is leaking, remember that oil travels down (gravity) and back (interia) so trace the oil up and forward until it stops. usually this will bring you right to the leak.
3. if you cant see the component, you wont know for sure, so get a mirror. or camera probe
4. some times oil gets on everything and you cant find a leak, wash the engine with a de greaser, then let it idle until it gets warm. look for any fresh oil that leaked out
5. if you're still too retarded to find it, you can purchace a UV dye at the auto parts store, add this to your oil, run the engine for a while, turn off all the lights, and get your black light out. This will make the oil VERY OBVIOUS
Got some good comedy for all you engine upgrading lovin´ folk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sl9gMoyoAw
>>908766
PCV goes in after MAF but before MAP. MAF is up on the airbox and the MAP is beneath the butterfly valve in the top of the inlets. I'll be sure to pull the MAP once i'm in there and check what sort of state it's in. Thanks for taking the time to explain., i'll now have more of a clue than usual next time it comes up on /o/.
>>908878
Oil gets changed every 10,000 kilometers (~6200 miles) regardless of condition, tranny every 20,000 kilometers. I run 10W-40 penrite with a new filter every time. When I first got her I pulled both oil pans to check for sediment and other signs of imminent grenading, bugger all sludge and no metal, looked pretty good to me. The fluid is not the problem, it habit of leaving the engine is.
>>908930
As mentioned, this was on the shopping list, despite multiple degreases demonstrating that there is (currently) no oil running out from that high up on the engine. I have the PCV/hose kit and a top seal on the way, we'll see how we go with that. I'll post pics of the bits I pull, they are made of marshmallow and fail.
>>909237
You don't? I have had plugs that have been dropped on their end in the supply chain to the point where the cap is pretty much touching the electrode. Doesn't hurt to check.
>>909269
I have done all of these things short of the dye test, which is unnecessary at this time.
>>909671
Fucking excellent. I need to start geeping a tuba player in my passenger seat for dem V8 feels.
> how to make your shitbox sound like a very unwell kawasaki
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HejHNaNqhLw
More news once I start tearing down on the weekend, thanks for your info all.
Clean the area as best you can, and add some engine oil dye to the crankcase.
I am facepalming over engine swap,full rebuild headgaskets, leak down tests. What is pcv valve? Take your shit to a mechanic for at least the diagnosis portion if you are really this daft, then get a second opinion in case you took to the guy that wants to do the leak down test.
As the 2 previous posters mention. Get the UV dye in the oil. It's like medicine for your daftness. The pcv valve flows into your intake manifold. along with overpressure it burps oil. The PCV hoses and intake manifold gasket are not out of the question for possible oil leak locations. I would inspect those as well as the valve covers. With the dye innit.
>>910223
Ok I looked up some V-tec specific problems and think I've solved it. The hose from the pcv to intake manifold collapses under vacuum in the bend. The over pressure can't return to the intake manifold and starts blowing gaskets to slobber everywhere. Ford revised this line to include a heat shield after realizing their engineering error.
>>910037
This will be the next step after I replace the PCV system. Meanwhile, I have also found pic related. I know the PCV hose is leaking from under the thermos, but this has also showed up in the cleaning. Leak down test on #4 just became a priority I guess.
Plan this weekend is;
> Take to friendly mechanic for a leak down test (found a bloke who's happy to let me use his shop and tool for a quick check, he just won any business I may have down the line)
> Replace valve seal.
> Replace PCV valve + lines.
> Pull intake manifold out and check MAP.
> Pull exhaust header and check for source of oil (if leak down test comes back good)
> Replace wrecked engine mount I found under the airbox.
Gunna need to drop coolant and remove the thermos housing to get to the lines in question, will be a good opportunity to make sure there is no oil in it.
>>910230
> The hose from the pcv to intake manifold collapses under vacuum in the bend.
I found and have known about the collapsed pipe >>908192 for 5 days now. Here I was thinking I had logically discovered the fault by cleaning and attention to detail, but it was clearly dumb luck. Thank fuck someone who hasn't even read the thread has come along to remind me how "daft" I am.
No really, kill yourself faggot.
Did anyone consider a leak from the oil pressure sensor? I've had a sensor leak AND the fitting leak because the garage didn't tighten it up enough.
>>910295
I would have if it were anywhere near the leak, it is located on the rear of the block near the oil filter adjacent to cylinder 2.
