Hello /diy/ not sure if this is the right board for this but since asbestos might be related to DIY projects I am posting here.
Has anybody her dealt with asbestos in a project or even in their job?
I am asking because I have been working as an apprentice plumber for the past 1.5 years and recently I worked in condo unit built in the 60's. It definitely has asbestos ducts. And it has that old popcorn ceiling stuff.
Before I worked there the owner had somebody remove ALL the popcorn ceiling on the first floor of the unit.
I am 99% sure she did not use an asbestos abatement contractor. More than likely the person she hired just treated it as any typical non-asbestos related job and did not do a proper removal.
Could I be walking into an asbestos infested pit every time I walk into the unit?
And what are the hazards related to asbestos when working as a plumber? Am I likely to die before 70 because of this job?
Reading about mesothelioma has me honestly re-considering this career.
Yes Asbestos is bad. But it has to be consistent and fairly heavy exposure to fuck you up.
Popcorn ceilings have fuck all asbestos in them. Even if someone just yolo ripped it all out it wouldn't really be that bad once it has aired out and vacuumed and had sheets and shit changed.
As a plumber the worst thing you would have to worry about is asbestos pipe lagging which is nasty as fuck, but is really easy to identify and tell your employer to get fucked until they get rid of it. Same with anything else you suspect to be asbestos, just tell them to get fucked until it is tested. Health and safety morons are the worst kind of people but they will 100% back you up.
>>1008328
Here we go... again. Don't tell me, it's also metric asbestos that runs on superior 220v, 50hz electricity?
Seriously, the replies you're going to get here will be 180° apart. Flip a coin, anon. It's about if there are airborne particles, my opinion is your probably fine, but watch your back.
Solid asbestos isn't harmful, only dust particles that wreak havoc on your lungs. Wear a respirator if you're so damn worried.
>>1008419
For the average homeowner or /diy/'er I'd agree that asbestos isn't a big worry, even if you're removing it yourself.
A tradesman is more likely to come into contact with asbestos, and more regularly, though. Our plumberbro here is also likely to come into contact with some of the nastier stuff, like broken asbestos pipe lagging. The cumulative risk over time is higher, and there's no real reason he should accept that risk.
>>1008441
Was speaking in regards to this specific instance. I tend to agree with you, hence the "watch your back."
>>1008421
Like I said in the OP someone had just recently ripped out the popcorn ceiling in the unit and could possibly have created a ton of dust in the process which was not properly removed. I was also tasked with opening a wall to get to the pipes. Unit was built in the 60's. I don't wanna die in my 60s cause of this shit.
And I do have a respirator but i am being exposed to the fibers they will get on my clothes, tools, and in my car. I can't wear a respirator 100% of the time.
>>1008520
*IF I am being exposed to the fibers
>>1008520
Spend 10 bucks on a throw away jump suit. I wouldn't worry about the little that'll be on your tools. It requires years of constant exposure to have any effect.
Asbestos is waaaay worse for you if you smoke, so there's that too.
>>1008328
One, asbestos is scary. Studying it in lab safety was very interesting. Would avoid if possible.
Two, a P-100 class respirator or better (typical N-95 don't cut it, note P-100 are usually pink in color so they are near impossible to color coordinate with work clothes), cold showers and extra rinse work clothes (or disposable jumpsuit it if you can get one) can handle typical temporary expose with in acceptable levels. Also staying hydrated helps flush eyes and skin, but wouldn't drink on job site.
The real issue is the frequency from your work. If you are just doing one or two short jobs and follow safety tips, you should be fine. But if you are doing this on a regular basis then I would put a lot more thought into it and do some serious research (would do serious research anyway as glass nano particles are always fun to study).
Breathing in the dust is the real danger.
But you pick your jobs, if you think it is dangerous find a different one or get it cleaned out first. If this is such a common problem consider getting certification for asbestos handling, then you can charge a lot more and have a good understanding of the risks.
>>1008328
Fucking plumber fags. wear a dust mask if you're worried you'll be fine.
Only takes one fiber to cause mesothelioma, it's just highly unlikely
Popcorn ceiling is going to be more paint than asbestos, was the area cleaned after the removal? If it's been hepa-vac'd and wet wiped since the removal you are going to be fine. If it still has the dust and pieces of ceiling on the ground then you might want to throw a fit about it
Duct wrap can be up to 80% asbestos. The danger depends on what shape it's in and if anything you or other contractors might do to disturb it.
As a plumber you'll be coming into contact with asbestos pretty regularly
It's worth learning what you can about state and federal regulations.
Possible friable asbestos materials include plaster, drywall, joint compound, pipe insulation other than Fiberglass and foam, mud elbows, spray on insulation, boiler insulation ect.
The insulations are the most dangerous, wall materials are usually a pretty low percentage
>>1008634
"Only takes one fiber to get mesothelioma"
This is what's known as the one fiber THEORY. It has never been proven and holds as much validity as saying it only takes one cigarette to get lung cancer.
It was used by lawyers in asbestos lawsuits.
If this were true there wouldn't be a permissible exposure limit set by the government as safe .
Anyone 40yrs old or older had been exposes to asbestos daily as it was used as fireproofing in essentially every public building built before 1970.
Hotels, hospitals, stores, restaurants, movie theaters, public housing, apartment complexes, libraries,military housing, ships. Hell schools had so much asbestos in them they might have well have been carved out of a solid block of it.
All brakes and clutches were made of it and a typical city intersection had an airborn asbestos level 10x todays permissible exposure limit for a work environment.
They made kids pajamas, coffee filters, curtains, even cigarette filters out of it, and 10,000 other commercialy available products.
If you'll notice there is a large senior citizen population who were exposed throughout their lives.
So no the one fiber theory doesn't hold a lot of water.
Of course it can be dangerous with large dose over extended periods of time. But people have been using asbestos since roman times and humanity hasn't been wiped out by it yet.
>>1009078
No. The "One fiber theory" is valid, medically. It only takes one fiber to embed itself into the lung and it can cause growths which develop into mesothelioma.
The point is, it's so statistically unlikely for any given fiber to actually develop into a mesothelioma, a single fiber is highly unlikely to do it. It *could*, but the statistics are against it. Just like you *could* win the lottery, but you probably wont. That doesn't mean *nobody* will ever win the lottery.
tl;dr: People are bad at statistical risk analysis.
fucking shit guys, just to be sure, is pic related asbestos?
I live in a shit-world country and asbestos is still a thing here. I'm fucking retarded and didnt know about popcorn ceiling and my closet has it, just moved in a month ago and I fucking broomed it to remove webs and shit particles fell over the wood and some are still around. Of course my room is probably filled with this shit and I have clothes at the top of my closet. Im so fucking mad at myself
>>1008520
From my understanding you inhale asbestos and your body cannot process it so it entombs it like a clam stuck with a grain of sand. Why would it take years of exposure? You breathe it in and it just never leaves. Logically, the more time that passes, the larger the pearls a clam will make, so imagine the same goes for your lungs encapsulating these foreign particles.
>>1009182
>Why would it take years of exposure?
Its simply how some of these people try to delude themselves. Like come on.
We knew in the late 60s that it was extremely harmful to humans.
Lobbying and corporations pushed hard, and it wasnt until 1989 that it was banned in any capacity. And you could still use it in a ton of applications until mid 00s.
Citing the lobbyist lawsuits is like asking the NFL for concussion advice or BP about global warming.
People love to claim that mesothelioma is the danger of asbestos, when it doesnt take too much to realize that scarring of the lungs causes all sorts of pulmonary or cardiac problems.
The technology and treatment 30years ago was so much more primitive too.
Mesothelioma is a scapegoat, people who did suffer complications arising from asbestos exposure, doctors couldnt pinpoint a cause for your lungs being shit. You were just told you have bad fucking lungs.
>>1009078
>cigarette filters
When one source of lung cancer just isn't enough to make you feel cool.
>>1009341
Grossly under rated
>>1009211
>Could buy it.
You still can. There's like 20 asbestos containing materials you can go buy in the US, and most EU countries only have outlawed raw asbestos or a few types. I think Australia has the hardest line on it and actually has banned it.
>>1009182
That's kinda correct, but your lungs are massive compared to the damage a single fiber or even a hundred fibers will cause.
It gets in there and microscopically rips and tears everything on the way down, with the alveoli getting the worst once it's trapped in your lungs, causing scarring and then reduced breathing capacity until the cumulative effect fucks you. And yea the material itself is carcinogenic, so when it does finally get scarred over and stops cutting you, it has a high probablity to cause a tumor growth.
It's not radiation, looking at it and even touching it won't kill you.
With the proper filtration, body protection/cleaning, and risk management, you can work "safely" around old friable shit, but I doubt anyone here has a suit, mask, seals the area, sets up the airlock, positively pressures the area, and then sets a decontamination area in the airlock before they even touch it when they diy.
>Story from old 70 year old boss.
Just be glad you weren't in construction during the asbestos heyday, there would be whole rooms where laborers mixed barrels of the shit with water or another vehicle by hand and then transported it to pipes or whatever in buckets to then apply by hand. They say these rooms were so dusty/foggy that you wouldn't be able to see 5 feet in front of you, and protection was maybe a bandanna around your mouth and nose. And then you'd take the shit home to your family too.
