>You're not brave. Men are brave.
What did he mean by this?
>>81437635
there's no bravery is being a near-invulnerable alien demi-god that just does what he likes
>>81437635
Martha.
It means kill yourself and stop spamming shit threads
>>81437635
both of them are pussies
only the chick with rope was brave
>>81437720
>Only Lois was brave
ftfy
>>81437635
He hates women.
>>81437635
>What did he mean by this?
The tired "humanity is special" cliché.
>>81437650
HeMad and The Masters of the universe.
>>81439156
That Martha thing isn't the plothole you make it out to be. It's not this "get out of jail free card" that gets shitposted here. He spent the whole movie dehumanizing Clark about him being an alien & freak only to figure out in the end that he was human & wanted to save his mother, just like Bruce wanted.
Not saying the movie is some misunderstood masterpiece, but it's clear who's been on their phones during the screening.
>>81437635
You're not Brave. Brave men don't go around in advance armor to punch people.
Knowing Snyder it means Batman's an atheist and is accusing Superjesus of hacking.
>>81437635
You cant be brave if you have nothing to fear. Basically the core moral of One Punch Man
god al fucking mighty
go back to /tv/
not because you're posting about BvS but because you're obviously fishing for new maymay material to be the next baneposting
>>81437635
he longs for those bold days of teaming up with Green Arrow when you could beat the bad guy with an auto-tuner
>>81437635
has your years of going into a shitposting frenzy on /tv/ turn your brain to mush to the point you can't understand basic sentences? Your board is also more gay for black dicks than /lbgt/ & /gif/
>>81439311
Only brave men can be bold.
>>81439342
Are you saying my home made salsa isn't bold? Thems fightin' words.
>>81437780
That sounds like the talk of a Xeno
Are you a Xeno?
>>81437780
Humanity is the greatest. Are you not a human?
>>81439200
To me, this is obvious. But I also took it a step further. It's not just that Supes has a mother he's trying to save, but also that he's not trying to kill Batman (fighting rough, yes, but obviously not trying to be fatal) even when said mother is being held hostage to force him to do so.
Bruce has been all about "He could kill us all on a whim," but now he finds out that Supes isn't going to even when it would be understandable for him to do so.
Bruce is realizing both that he was wrong about Superman not being human enough, and that he was wrong about Superman's entire nature.
>>81439365
I think your homemade salsa is too thin and watery and there's nothing you can do about it.
>how to make the movie better
1. Remove all scenes about the other JL members. Not only did it distract from the story at hand but the scene itself was trash. Shitty video clips sent via e-mail with their logos and all that. Garbage. Cut it. Including the Flash scene after the knightmare.
2. Change the knightmare to Bruce's parents getting killed, with an emphasis on his father saying Martha, and intertwine that with the last part of the knightmare were Bruce is in chains and Superman arrives. The battle before that was shit. The Martha thing is just there so when it happens later in the movie it's not as hamfisted as it is now and it feels more like something that's still rummaging within Bruce's damaged psyche. Makes his triggered reaction seem more believable.
>>81439418
What yous gonna do about it, humie?
>>81437635
He meant that it was very brave of those men to take the Batwing's high-caluber bullets in their faces
>>81439700
>their logos and all that
You don't use logos when organising your files?
>>81439700
No, that's retarded.
>>81439715
>dem firework effects
The fucking movie couldn't even make basic action scenes right. What a shit show.
>>81439767
I'd say it isn't. And even if, it'd be less retarded than the way it's right now.
>>81437635
But I am not a man, I am a Gundam.
>>81425448
Burned. How?>>81439262
Opm? How so
>>81437635
Superman is pretty much a god, and Bats is telling him that what him being a hero isn't a big deal because he really can't lose and normal men, who can be cut, shot, and be killed in the blink of an eye are truly brave. They have more to lose in the face of danger and are much more vulnerable.
>>81437635
>What did he mean by this?
Never leave /tv/ again crossboarder
>>81439715
>that guy who disappears when the car explodes
>>81439803
no, you're a housewife
>>81439200
Most people would get that. Yes batman is an hypocrite, he wanted to kill him at all costs until he learns superman has a mother like he used have. He is not a God. But the characterization overall + the tone in that particular scene was poorly executed, and that conditioned the audience to believe something different than what you stated. And you can feel in the movie Snyder's/Goyer's hand in there. You can almost assume they were writing this and thinking "i'm a fucking genius, people will get their head blown." They didn't create a believable scenario to deliver the idea they originally intended, and I do agree the final ideas was superman/batman-ish. Still, you can't ignore the fact that they did something wrong.
By the way, the best scenes are the batman vs 20 people fight and wonder woman arrives. You can't blame for the audience to be bored as fuck at that point.
>>81437635
He is saying that Superman isn't brave because his near invulnerability means that he probably doesn't have anything to be afraid of, so he doesn't take any risk doing the things he does. Depending on your definition of bravery, it is essentially having the courage to do things in spite of they risk or fear doing them brings to you. Batman is essentially saying that nearly nothing presents a risk or causes fear in Superman, therefore he is not brave for doing the things he does. Alternatively, Batman is stroking his own dick and saying he is hot shit because there are a lot of things that can hurt him or any other human, which makes them the brave ones for doing them.
It's bullshit, and the type of shit thinking you find in any "Tell me why Superman isn't a Mary Sue" thread, but that's about as much as I expect from Zack "No one stays good in this world." Snyder.
>>81437644
so mostly penis envy
>>81440376
Teleporting bullets
Honest
>>81440591
>>81437635
Was there any specific reason that prompted superman for batman to saying that? Was Snyder pulling one liners because sounded cool or we need to assume the training montage + first gadget fight is the reason?
>>81440591
Isn't the fact that Batman is in the wrong means that Synder isn't agreeing with that line of thought?
>>81440852
Shut it down!!!
>>81440823
I really don't think so. It's not like Superman said about bravery. Batman just brought it up completely out of the blue IIRC.
>>81440823
Were you not paying attention to the film?
>>81440823
Remember that comic from some idiot who obviously didn't understand DKR where it was explained Miller (and thus his Batman) hated Superman because the idea of being an all-powerful good person is ridicolous?
That's what this feels like
>>81437635
>you can only be afraid of dying
What a load of bullshit.
>>81440895
Yes. Superman never boasted about being brave.
>>81437635
>You're not brave. Men are brave.
This really feels like something Luthor should say
>>81437635
He's implying Superman is actually a woman
>>81440852
That might be possible, but thats just such a hamfisted way to make that point. It is possible to have a character be in the wrong, while still being compelling AF without filling his mouth with memey as shit dialogue like Do you bleed, or You aren't brave. I don't expect a character like that out of Snyder because cheap cartoony characters are really all he can provide. I don't mind Batman being in the wrong here, and being so blinded by his anger, but he really fucking came off like an autist, and that'd be okay if Superman was compelling or felt in the right, but he felt just as much on the spectrum and as unlikable. Diana was literally the only one who I felt was deserving of support and adoration.
>>81440823
>>81440890
>>81440895
>>81440946
Imagine if instead of having completely pointless piss explosions we had Superman explaining himself and his ideals in front of congress and the world, and then during the fight Batman would, like, angrily debate him and explain why what he said was stupid and shit from his POV
>"People of the world, i just want to help! I know i can mess up but i try to do my best!"
>Then later in the fight
>"I know i can mess up? Did you even listen to yourself? I witnessed hundreds of people dying because of invaders that wanted only YOU, but you don't realize how dangerous your existence is, do you? Yadda yadda"
But nope, i guess cryptic demonic and angelic metaphors are more effective
At least Daredevil S2 managed to give us a good taste of moral debate between different vigilantes
Mutants are faggots
>>81441078
Wrong. If they had time to debate then Superman would have just explained himself. The ideas these people have to "improve" the movie are usually so retarded and autistic.
>>81439231
There's brave and there's stupid.
He's not going to run around in his underwear attempting to choke out entire groups of gun-wielding thugs.
>>81441320
I said "Batman would angrily debate him", i guess i should've specified "while beating the shit out of him"?
I didn't suggest to drastically change the scene, leave the action intact, just instead one liners like "you're not brave, men are brave" you'd have the character actually explaining his ideas to the audience and what the movie tries to present as an ideological rival
It's not about the two sitting and talking it out, but about properly informing the audience about why they don't like each other. It wouldn't fix the entire movie, but it would be soemthing
>>81441078
I was a little upset at getting bait and switched again. I wanted the hearing to be about MoS, and instead it was about his going to save Lois from the terrorists.
Also, how about Superman showing up to stop the bullet from killing Jimmy, thus justifying part of why Jimmy likes him as much as he does? Nope, Jimmy Olsen is silly and we can't have silly. Lets just kill him off.
Also, Ow. Those sonics hurt, so I'm tired of talking. How about I fly you through a building instead? I would have loved Batman taking shots at Superman and Superman just dodging while trying talk to him...you know, like he told Lois he was going to try to do. Shame that lasted for about 5 seconds.
>>81441320
>If they had time to debate then Superman would have just explained himself. The ideas these people have to "improve" the movie are usually so retarded and autistic.
As someone who has always disliked Batman and Superman fighting, a movie titled BvS with them hardly fighting, and debating on a more philosophical level, a la the courtroom context people have justified the title with, would actually make the movie better in my book. Heaven forbid we get the grandfathers of superheroics looking like men capable of reason, able to recognize a common pursuit being a reason to trust one another instead of a bunch of testosterone fueled meatheads.
>>81437635
> A big man in a suit of armor, take that away what are you?
>>81441398
That makes a little more sense then. The thing is though that the reasons for them not liking each other were there already shown throughout the film and showing more would have been too much I think. The brave line shows basically what you wanted but in a more condensed form.
>>81441438
Clark vs. Bruce at the party was a good debate, I think. How would Batman show up to the debate in a courtroom though? Bruce Wayne, maybe but Batman?
>>81441810
>How would Batman show up to the debate in a courtroom though?
Not literally a courtroom, anon. The justification for Batman v Superman as the title though was like the title format used for litigation where an entity takes a defendant to court and both sides argue their position. It makes the fight more a debate than actual combat, out of which comes an opportunity for the two to realize that the other isn't the monster they believed them to be. I did like the gala debate as well.
>>81441470
A big guy?
>>81441039
>that might be possible
Might be? There's no ambiguity here, that's exactly the case.
>>81437780
spot the reptillian
>>81440946
No but Bruce is going through a midkife crisis here. The "you're not beave" line is just trash talk that shows just how insecure Superman has made Batman.
>>81442231
Even with the typos,this.
>>81441944
I thought it was "we're not making a REAL versus film because they're not going to stay enemies" despite the fact that Japan does versus things like that all the time. I wish your reason was the real one because then it would be interesting in a different way.
>>81442178
Listen Zack, if you want to tell us what you meant to say with your movie then please use a trip. Short of you or a character saying something, what was meant by something is based on an interpretation which is subjective. Whether or not Zack Snyder agrees or disagree doesn't fucking matter to me. His agreeing or disagreeing because Batman is wrong or right doesn't make the movie better or worse. Batman is more Lex Luthor than Lex is, and that's a problem, and that goes away because he finds out Superman has a mommy like he did and that just so happens to be the chink in the armor of his demonization rationale of Superman that he's been fixed on for years that leads to his realization that he isn't the monster he thought he was, and is suddenly his friend even though he was literally about to kill him 5 minutes ago? Zack Snyder having Bruce say it and doing so because Bruce is in the wrong which makes the thinking wrong, doesn't change the fact that it is shitty dialogue in a shitty poorly paced plot, that was full of characters who didn't feel like themselves, who were saying things that should have been coming out of other mouths. You are telling me that I missed a flower on the ground which skyscrapers are being destroyed by an asteroid shower around me. In the grand scheme of things it just doesn't matter.
>>81443062
>tl:dr
>>81440376
Barry Allen on the job.
>>81443125
>>81440852
But Batman was right. Superman was weak, Louis was the only thing preventing him from becoming into a space tyrant.
>Louis is the key, you were always right about him
>>81437635
problematic
>>81443219
It didn't actually matter.
>>81441078
Isn't the Daredevil show basically CSI with costumes? Of course they talk a lot
>>81443298
>Louis
It's lois and I don't see how his love for her makes him weak.
>>81443378
Superman is too weak to deal with loss. He became a hobo after his dad committed suicide via tornado so Lois's death seems to be enough to pushing him into full Injustice mode.
>>81439558
It would've been better if Superman hadn't said "save Martha". The line didn't feel organic, and it put the focus on the "OMG SAME NAME AS MY MOM" thing.
If it was just a line like "please save my mother" that humanised Superman and stopped Batman from killing him, and telling him "her name is Martha Kent" made him decide to go save her himself, the whole scene would've come across a lot better I think.
It's a problem throughout the movie; plenty of things that happen have reasonable explanations if you look deep enough, but the problem is that on the surface it just seems stupid.
>>81439558
This. To me, it was also the implication that Superman realized that if he was going to die, he still wanted someone to save his mother, even if it was the man who killed him. He knew Batman was good at his core, based on all he had done, he just didn't approve of his recent methods. It's why the first idea was to convince Batman to help him find his mother, not just to fight him. Batman was just slightly too irrational at the time to listen, obviously thinking it was a trick, and forced Superman to fight.
>>81440852
This. I can't beleive how many people seem to just purposely misunderstand incredibly straightforward parts of this film to make it seem like a mess. It's not perfect, but let's not be retarded.
>>81443449
>implying anti-life wasn't to blame
>>81440791
hmm........
how is doomsday's arm bone shown again?
>>81439200
Anyone who's not a complete retard would realize this when they saw Superman fight to save the Earth, but for some reason Batman trusts the words of someone who's about to die and his girlfriend before common sense.
>>81437780
It has nothing to do with being human.
You are brave when you actually risk your life doing stuff. If you're immortal, you can't be brave because there's nothing you can lose.
>>81444168
The cape genre is built around might makes right.
>>81439700
>Change the knightmare to Bruce's parents getting killed, with an emphasis on his father saying Martha
you mean like at the very beginning of the movie?
also the point of the first scene is that by the time batman is over superman and lois comes in the dynamic is completely different from the situation he was in as a child, there's a sexual aspect and the fact that the bat creature comes out of his mother's grave is important as well. there's a background idea of how dreams and the unconscious move through the characters in their seemingly rational lives.
soon we'll have this whole analysis about how it's all about sex underneath it all, personally i picked up the magick/esoteric/mythic/film-lit-trope/archetype/savior-myth shit. some actual psychology person is going to go deeper on it eventually
>>81440852
careful, wouldn't want to make anons accept the possibility that they might be wrong
>>81441078
>completely pointless piss explosions
the point is that lex is triggering and playing people at the right time, ultimately failing because as batman later realizes, men are still good
narrative wise, when better to have something like that happen? when better for someone who wants to destroy a person he hates than to sabotage the moment devoted to letting that person talk?
even aside from this, we all already know that the piss was meant to mock the senator and let her know that he was going to get what he wants anyway
it's completely fine to say you weren't into the movie but don't make it out to be something it wasn't
>>81441398
you're saying the movie didn't do what it did...
throughout the movie the audience is hammered over the head with how bruce sees superman as an existential threat and wants to take him out to also give his life meaning
throughout the fight, especially once its over bruce gives short precise statements that give us a sense of how he views him but also his own perspectives on his own life as well
>you aren't brave, men are brave
>you're parents probably told you you have a purpose
>my parents taught me something different as they were something in the gutter
>life only makes sense if you force it to
everything he said before hangs in the back of the mind and is connected to what he says there
>>81442292
>>81441944
i think its important to note that wonder woman is the one who kind of has the final verdict on the matter, coming in to the story once the boys got their aggression out
>>81437635
He's saying that Captain America is better than Superman.
>>81442231
Insecure of what? Fighting him? Believing in what he do is wrong?
No man, you are trying to add sense to something that isn't properly showed, explained or implied. And I don't mean to say "give me everything because i'm a retard and i can't think". No, they completely implied that Batman has touched rocked bottom, he kills villains instead of act with justice. He is convinced only good guys can't stay good. He rather stop and kill Superman because there is 1% chance he does something wrong (which magically there was .99% or less since he didn't stop him when he could... or he is a plain hypocrite that that 1% or more doesn't applied if he happen to have a mother, let alone named like her own). By the way, what do you call the thousands of people that died in metropolis + smallville? less than 1%? The actual fuck?
I do want to believe that Superman inspired Batman to do justice through hope. That's what Superman represents. Did you felt hopeful throughout the movie? No, because they cut those parts to add unnecessary cameos, killing important but no quiet characters, talking about demons in a alien invasion movie sequel, and dream scenes within a dream scenes that might or might not be a premonition.
>>81444168
You have a very limited definition of bravery.
>>81447546
Isn't bravery overcoming fear?
>>81444733
>you're parents probably told you you have a purpose
>No, they told me I don't own anything to this world and I should let children to drown if it's for my benefit
>B-but my parents are dead!!!
>My dad ran to a tornado for saving an old dog and he didn't allow me to save him because my secret identity was more important than his life or any human life
>Dude, that's fucked up
Problem solved
>>81440791
But Doomsday was the most invincible character on the planet and he had no penis at all
>>81446429
Insecure of his place in the world.
>>81447546
No, Batman has a very limited definition.
THat's the point.
Jesus Christ, people. You realize that Batman was supposed to be wrong, right? That he's the bad guy in that fight.
>>81448336
>Batman
>allowed to be wrong
You were right about him, you always have been right about him! Fear him! Find us, Bruce! You have to find us!
>>81448499
Flash was talking about Snyder
He called Superman a tranny.
>>81448336
>You realize that Batman was supposed to be wrong
How?
Superman isn't a man, duh.
>>81437635
it means the copypasta i generated is right
http://pulpklatura.tumblr.com/post/141843209469/batman-v-superman-the-modern-revenge-tragedy
>>81437635
somthing about mortality probably i dunno im not a philphinosipor
>>81437635
brave
brāv/
adjective
1.ready to face and endure danger or pain; showing courage.
noun
1.people who are ready to face and endure danger or pain.
2.dated
an American Indian warrior.
verb
1.endure or face (unpleasant conditions or behavior) without showing fear.
Clearly he meant that because Superman was Kryptonian and had so much power, there was no way he could be considered to be a warrior in a Native American tribe of any kind.
