I'm going real honest here. I liked Shinji's character. He shows his weaknesses, but that's because he's human. Not some shonen asspull character. So tell me /a/, why do you take a fat load of shit on him?
Because he's a sissy.
Plenty of people here like Shinji. /a/ is not one person. Lurk more.
>>139016065
Shinji is literally the greatest protagonist in anime history. So good that thousands of shows afterward tried to copy him and failed miserably.
>>139016326
>Yukki
>Tatsumi
>Simon(but got it right)
>...
/a/ help me complete the list
He's the anti-beowulf, he's the weakest person possible.
>>139016065
He has no real reason to be as weak as he is when everything has been handed to him on a silver platter.
>>139017757Just like Anon
>>139016065
He forces you to self-insert in a way that leaves you butt-hurt.
>>139016065
He has all these hot women in his life and he chose a faggot angel that he knew FOR ONE DAY
because i'm asuka irl and i have to shit on him while secretly wishing he would stranglerape me
>>139021365
You're a transvestite?
>>139016065
Shinji is the one you mostly likely are or were when you watched eva and then you start evolving into Misato.
That's why Eva is genius
>>139021616
that armpitservice
>>139016065
I would like to put a different kind of fat load on him, if you know what I mean
Only thing I didn't like about him was when he jerked off Asuka's comatose body.
I mean, the cunt deserved it but it felt out of character for him and they didn't really go into it much again. Harp 'well he's fucked up isn't he??' all you want, that's the worse justification i've ever heard.
>>139023371
asuka liked it anyway
>>139023392
did she? I thought she made a half reference to it during the Instrumentality scene and implied it was negative?
>>139023419
Nah, she just said, if he just wants to jerk off to her, he can go fuck himself, that he has to want her completely instead of just sexually, otherwise she wouldn't want him.
So the jerking off part wasn't directly the negative aspect. Just a extreme situation of showing the actual negative aspect
>>139016065
That's why I feel Ichigo is so under appreciated. He isn't a typical dumbass Shonen MC (he actually tries in school and states he doesn't wanna fail at life, so he actually puts in effort.) He thinks Rukia is lying when she first explains soul reapers to him, where as Naruto, Goku, and Luffy etc. would be ecstatic and soaking it all up. When Tsukishima changed his families memory around, he actually got so freaked out that he broke down because he couldn't do anything to help. He also showed clear signs of depression throughout the stories progression. Not to mention, it's stated he fights with a "brute like" fighting style, because throughout the series he was a 15 year old taking life as it came at him. He's quite a realistic character to some degree and just like with Shinji, they get shit for no reason. Ichigo grew up in a world where shit was normal until out of no where, this soul reaper appears and now he can see spirits and guys who can destroy cities. Whereas Luffy and Naruto's goals are a normal everyday way of life.
>>139016065
Not everyone in /a/ hates him. He's actually my favourite character in Eva.
Shinji is a lame fucking twink. If you act like Shinji you are an autist.
>>139016065
/a/ used to, but for the most part has really backed off as more and more people actually watch the fucking show.
/m/ is still really bad at spouting memes and disproven talking points like "lel shinji need to get in the fucking robot!" Even though he did. Without fail. He whined and complained and and shown to be genuinely scared of the "robot," he still got in the fucking thing and did his fucking job. And shit like "lel he need Bright Slap!" Which is completely ignoring the fact that Bright Slap™ never did anything but make the situation worse for Amuro.
>>139016065
Why do I take a shit on his character?
Because he knows for a fact there are giant monsters fucking up cities, he is one of a handful of people able to pilot giant robots, but because he has family issues like the rest of the world does, he breaks down at every turn for no reason at all, even when his life is on the line.
>>139026196
>no reason at all
he is depressed.
>>139025586
Ichigo's problem is, that he has so little panel time out of the fights, no one remembers his character from the beginning. Bleach is just so dragged on, that any characterization is lost.
That and Kubo made him very simple. He's basically a high school student, who's strong and wants to use that strength. The rest follows from his experience.
>>139025586
all that shit except not failing at school also applies to yusuke, which is fitting considering bleach is just a cheap yu yu hakusho clone
Who fucking cares.
What about eva at this point hasn't been discussed on /a/ at least a thousand times?
Nobody cares about your opinion op, you're a stupid fucking faggot.
>>139021541
this and the toilet meme really have to stop
>>139026055
The 3 pillots represent different shades and personalities of people in the autism specter, someone with autism or aspie syndrom will most likely relate to at least one of the pilots.
>>139026222
I was majorly depressed when I was a teenager too.
Shinji is a fucking exaggeration in concentrate.
>>139025586
I think Naruto was okay in the first episodes. He actually had a sad character, being a funny dumbassat school to hide his loneliness and all that. They just kinda lost it in making that his normal personality even when he wasn't lonely anymore.
>>139026196
Lets kill your mother and have your father abandon you to a random professor.
Later on lets make your father call you just to fight a fucking alien without any combat instruction and pretty much ignore you after it.
No reason to break down at all.
Fuck Marry Kill
>>139026578
Fuck Rei
Marry Misato
Kill Asuka
>>139026394
Fuck yeah, get me in one of those giant robots, I have some issues to work out and ripping city stomping monsters to bits is the way to fucking do it.
Then when all that shit is said and done, then I can make papa gendo into a red smear on the bottom of my eva's foot.
>>139026625
You wouldn't be able to kill Gendo, takes like 5 seconds for NERV to shutdown your synchronization completely.
If you did... congratz! Now good luck surviving with both NERV and Seele on your ass.
>>139026625
Well. He did want to smash his father into a red smear on the bottom of his eva's foot.
Because he's badly written
>>139026710
5 seconds shinji didn't capitalize on when he was busy making petulant threats instead of just punching through the fucking glass.
Anyone with an ounce of anger in them again the person that fucked over their life would not just sit back and make petty threats after he just forced you to crush your friend.
>>139026712
This was better, since he was actually attempting to do so, instead of just sitting int he hangar for no reason.
>>139026774
Not really. If you're not a complete retard, you'll think of the consequences and try to not make your life even worse if anything.
Because a lot of people who like Eva are either retarded waifufags or normalfags with no empathy.
>>139016065
Same could be said about Asuka.
Not about Rei though, she's weird and only autists can relate to her.
>>139026774
In the manga it's even better. In the hangar, Shinji threatens but, ultimately, gets his Eva shut down and LCL compression shot all the way up. Later on, he actually attempts to punch his father, only being stopped by Kaji holding him down.
Much more fitting to his character in every way, in my opinion. Make note that, while I liked that "stomping on NERV HQ" scene, it really doesn't fit. For starters, how did they even let the Eva get there? Shouldn't it have gone straight to the hangar afterwards (or just stay deactivated at the scene of the fight for a bit)?
>>139026811
No, if I'm depressed and enraged as much as shinji should have been, he would have raised a middle finger to the consequences and killed gendo the first moment he could after the unit 4 incident.
That's what I am getting at, Shinji is an exaggeration of being depressed, instead of actually getting angry beyond one time, he just goes back to his piss and moaning routine until the next angel comes along.
>>139016065
baka shinji
>>139026900
You're an exaggeration of being retarded.
Being depressed and angsty doesnt make you want to throw away your life just to kill part of what ruined it. Specially not for a 14 y/o who still has much to live.
>>139016065
>no shonen asspulls
Like piloting Eva on his first try?
>>139026984
Just keep watching anon.
>>139026984
He didn't pilot Eva on his first try, though :^)
>>139026984
He failed terribly at it.
Then the part of her mother soul that was merged with Unit-01 woke up and fought while Shinji was in coma.
Biggest shounen asspull was Asuka fight in EoE, and honestly i loved it.
>>139026962
But Shinji literally does that when the soldiers invade nerv h.q.
he just sits there as they point a gun to his head. At what point does he not have enough anger to lash out at someone who made him nearly kill his friend atop of neglecting him and using him for years for risk of ruining the rest of his life, but become so done with life soon after that he will allow himself to be killed without reason or a fight?
Also, nice personal attack, really gives credit to your argument, bub.
>>139027064
He was done with life because he killed someone he liked, he didn't see a point to living if he saw himself becoming a monster.
>>139027169
Who was an angel he knew for a day.
Yet nearly killing jockstrap/asuka thanks to gendo is such a totally different scenario, there is no reason why he would react in any coherent fashion between the two events, right?
>>139027046
How is it an asspull?
>>139027223
In one he was mad at someone who took the liberty of taking over his actions. In the other he just hated his own guts because he had no other reasonable choice and he hated himself for that.
>>139016065
People not liking Shinji is a shitty meme perpetuated by crossboarders.
Shinji is a legitimately fantastic protagonist.
I heard somewhere that Anno wanted to depict what actual 14 year old kids would behave like in a situation like Shinji's.
My problem with Shinji is that he's not what a typical 14 year old would act like. A 14 year old would fuck Misaki and yearn to fight in a giant fucking robot.
>>139027230
Beating 9 Evas alone under five minutes after beating a military squad after being nuked.
I understand that she mastered the AT field after realizing her mother spirit was severed into Unit-02 and she always wanted to protect her, but its still kind of an asspull.
>>139026578
Hatefuck Asuka
Ignore Misato
Kill Rei (since there's plenty more where she came from anyway)
Marry best girl
>>139027300
So he was explicitly used to nearly kill a friend even as he begged his father to stop. But that's not enough to make him forgo all consequences to kill the man responsible for all of his anger and sadness in his life.
But killing an angel, which he only knew for a day, one single day, who was actively trying to initiate second impact and ending all life as they knew it is enough to send him into spiraling suicidal depression?
Yeah, I'm staying by my point, Shinji is a terribly written character that has no emotions besides being a sadsack.
>>139027333
It's not an asspull, just typical Eva stuff.
You know how powerful the AT field is.
If anything, the fake lance that took her out was an asspull.
>>139027408
You don't seem to be reading what I'm writing. When his father took over and smashed his friend, Shinji got fucking mad. He threatened everyone because of that/actually attempted to hurt his father, but failed. He DID try his best to act on his rage.
When he killed Kaworu, he killed a being that was accepting Shinji for who he wasand he knew him for longer than just a dayHe felt like shit because he was forced to kill with his own hands the one person who didn't give him shit. Why would he go on a frenzied state of rage afterwards? He pretty much gave up on everything at that point.
But whatever. I'm pretty sure this is just b8 and I'm biting it like a retard.
>>139027589
He still killed a god damn angel that was trying to end all human life, I wouldn't give a fuck if kaworu took shinji's virginity the night before, that shit puts a damper on any feelings shinji should have about feeling guilty. Yeah, get sad the guy you liked almost stabbed you in the back, but going suicidal over it? Hell no.
And that's on top of that one, single time Shinji gets pissed, threatens gendo, gets stopped and then drops the subject like it never happened? that's shitty writing for sure.
>>139016065
He is a classical greek anti-hero.
He is on that level of characterization.
we call him a pussy and shit on him but many of us consider him one of the best protags in Anime.
>>139016065
I couldn't get into the this show back when I was a normalfag and tried watching it with friends, and it was mostly because I thought Shinji was a fucking faggot. It was only after I embraced my inner neet that I gave it another go, and much to my surprise, I found Shinji really relatable and really loved the show.
>>139017757
that is a valid argument
>>139017826
So is this . it was very much one of the points the story was trying to come across
>>139023371
But that's the best part.
>>139026897
Shinji tore free of something that clamped over the pylons, at least. Who knows, it's not like shafts for the rails they used to lift Evas to the surface were ever visible, those things just don't exist from the outside.
>>139027941
That's not valid at all. How can you say Shinji is privileged when he's being humanity last stand while receiving no genuine love ?
>>139021365
Same with her. giant bitch. Still my waifu all this yearsand masturbate constantly with raping her tenderly
>>139026260
Yu Yu is overrated, it's actually a horrible story other than Sensui's character/development and the fights.
>>139027730
>And that's on top of that one, single time Shinji gets pissed, threatens gendo, gets stopped and then drops the subject like it never happened? that's shitty writing for sure.
I'm glad you were not in charge of writing the series. You're not sane at all if you think that killing the person you hate will settle the problem. Nobody does that, except psychopaths.
>>139016065
It's fucking weird. To offer you a parallel, I watched this anime a while back called Sakurasou No Pet No Kanojo or some shit along those lines. I did not in any way find the character annoying because I believe that whatever he felt I could fucking understand it.
The problem I had with Shinji (I thought Shinji was a great character, but when I look back in retrospect, which probably makes my latest opinion weak because it's based off of vague memories, I get frustrated with the character.)
Here's the thing that I have. I'm not saying that Shinji is unrealistic, just... not the typical kind of person that you'd see. The actions that he takes afterwards something happens, he just fucking doesn't push through. It's all very "on instant"... as if everything else up to that point didn't fucking mean anything to him.
I don't think Neon Genesis Evangelion is a bad anime by anime by any shot, I fucking enjoyed that shit and at the time of me watching it, could get behind Shinji. It's just that people look way hard into it and they made it more complex that what it really is.
And fucking hell, I stood up and clapped the moment they showed everyone on the moon.
I stood up and clapped when he fucking jacked it off.
I made it a point to go over and rewatch the series that I've already seen later on in the future. Looking forward to watching this again.
>>139028035
>genuine
point was that he could never receive "genuine" love because he didn't love himself in the first place.
People tried to love him. he was just too self- absorbed in his angst.
>>139028009
Oh, right. Didn't remember that. I only watched the rebuild once and didn't care to go over it once again.
>>139027350
> Marry best girl
You....unwashed swine. What the fuck is wrong with you.
>>139016615
Simon actually stepped up to the plate. Yeah, he fucking got it right. But Shinji didn't have Kamina.
>>139026578
zcan i do a fuck/marry/rape instead?
>>139028200
People not realizing TTGL was super inspired by NGE and that while NGE attempted to deconstruct the "super robot" genre, TTGL was a reconstruction.
>>139028289
memeconstruction*
>>139026351
He really was fine up until the point where his father almost killed his friend using 01
>>139028256
only if you rape her after killing
>>139028167
Fuck me what I wrote was a pile of horseshit. Totally didn't present the idea properly + with added bonus of grammar mistakes. Sorry /a/.
I liked Shinji. He was insecure and in need of the approval of others to the point that he tried to withdraw a few times.
But thats also why I liked Misato so much because she kept Shinji from withdrawing
>>139026578
Fuck Asuka
Marry Misato
Kill Rei
>>139028314
Then no. I want her to be my pet slave.
>>139028289
It's a power trip. Fucking spirals and shit. I get that. I mean what fucking series with robots post NGE hasn't been inspired by NGE? I'm a big moron, senpai, but not that big of a moron.
>>139028166
Which is what shinji is, have you not been paying attention to what I have been saying this entire time?
the shitty writing makes him go from a kid with actual issues he should fly off the handle about to a screaming, pissing, screeching bitch that cries about how life is unfair before going limp and waiting for death.
To be very honest, I guess it's more of a personal issue with the narrative that I have. I'd love to fucking know why he acts the way he does after he loses his shit and shows some strength. This actually deserves some extra dialogue from the protag that other animes seem to always have but in this case it's actually necessary.
>>139028547
And more importantly where the fuck was Shinji's rendition of Fly me to the Moon? Fucking loved listening to the OP and Closing. Classics.
I hate Shinji because at his core, he's just a brat. Throughout Eva you either feel bad for Shinji for being forced into the situation, or you hate him because he won't accept the situation.
Sure he has depression and an inferiority complex and everything else in the book that might result in him being snobbish, but if there was no Eva, and Shinji was just some normal kid (Like the alt reality) he'd still be a whiny brat and that's why I can't stand him.
>>139028511
saying shinji is a psychopath doesn't make his presented character a psychopath
>>139028763
That was one of the points of the series.
The 3 pilots are all brats, 14 y/o brats.
![[2D4U]Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_BD_16[720p_DualAudio](B4634CDA).mkv_snapshot_21.42_[2016.03.13_23.25.37].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ucFqa4q.jpg "[2D4U]Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_BD_16[720p_DualAudio](B4634CDA).mkv_snapshot_21.42_[2016.03.13_23.25.37].jpg")
>>139028313
He took 8 episodes to settle in, then he's almost unreasonably okay with a lot for the middle third of the series until everybody else starts cracking up and dying. I really think he could have recovered from anything as long as he had a peer group.
>That old hag is no use anymore. That old hag is annoying.
What was the most emotional scene for you in the series? For me it was Asuka epiphany about her mother soul being severed into Unit-02.
>I don't want to die, I don't want to die, I don't want to die, I don't want to die. I DON'T WANT TO DIE!
>>139029010
What was young Rei's deal anyway?
She's so vastly different from the other Rei clones. I always saw it as her inheriting more of Yui because she was the first or maybe being younger causes a higher influence, but has their been an official reason why she's different?
I liked Shinji. He was kinda anti-heroish. Like he would withdraw & shut down. It's frustrating to watch, but interesting.
For example, in the End of Eva he did shit for a good portion of Asuka's fight. He didn't even go out there to help her until it was way too late. Most protagonists would have jumped out there to help/save her, but not Shinji. Granted he was scared, but that was a real asshole & selfish move on his part. I feel that was what made him unique as a character.
>>139029155
I dont remember. everything about evangelion left me an emotional wreck that left me close to comatose autist for years. is just one big blur of angsting on what i had done for the past 14 years of my life.
only for it to waste another 14 years trying to process this fucking anime that didnt meant anything in the first place...
...FUCK YOU ANNO
>>139029155
The mind rape.
>>139029234
He couldn't enter in the Eva though. He did not try much but still.
Eva has probably the best cast of characters. They are not really like characters, but more like real humans. With every rewatch, I notice new things about them. They all have amazing character development.
Shinji, Rei and Misato have the best character development in the series.
Gendou, Ritsuko, Asuka, Fuyutsuki and to a lesser extent Kaiji, Naoko, Kaworu, Toji and Yui all have really good character development, even if some of their motives are revealed a bit late.
The kids from school, Seele guys, Asuka's mom, Maya, Makoto and Shigeru (Although they are an interesting freudian trio and a human counterpart to the Magi) have the least character development.
I think that the characters are so good, because Anno has aspergers and all of his characters are really personal. Eva is not about the story, it's about characters and anyone who understands psychology, autism and aspergers, will appreciate Eva even more.
>>139029200
>Rei I was definitely a creepy little girl, especially because her resemblance to the late, lamented Yui Ikari was much more pronounced at that stage. Practically everything about her made alarm bells go off in Dr. Naoko Akagi's head, and that's one of the reasons why she killed Rei I..
You are pretty much correct. That and being grown in a lab she couldnt develop socially enough to know the impact saying something like that would cause. After all she was just repeating Gendo words.
>>139021616
no, misato's on the asuka spectrum.
shinjis evolve into gendos or run away.
>>139027730
>Yeah, get sad the guy you liked almost stabbed you in the back, but going suicidal over it? Hell no.
That varies from person to person. Some people will take the stabbing in the back from someone they gave trust to and even liked in a more light way, but some may take it to heart just like in the case of Shinji, so he took it as a massive blow to his self esteem which made him suicidal.
>>139029155
In EoE, in that scene where Shinji asks Asuka for help and she tells him off. He goes on a tantrum and then chokes her. Either that or his hallucinations while inside Leliel.
>>139028763
>he won't accept the situation.
He does this by episode 6, though.
I finished this series yesterday and feel like rewatching them already ;-;
Did anyone ever do this? Could they rewatch it entirely or got burnt out?
Is the English dub any good?
>>139030936
The first few episodes of the dub are really flat. From my recollections, ADV got the episodes two at a time so they didn't have the character's entire motivations when trying to express them, so the first few episodes have characters acting a lot different than they should. It gets better as the show goes.
I would also say dub Asuka is better than sub Asuka just because of actual German being added.
EoE dub is shit though. Manga Entertainment did that one and they recasted a lot of the supporting characters with new VAs that were absolute trash. The parts with the pilots and Misato are fine, but anything involving the bridge bunnies is terrible at best.
How did Evangelion influence anime?
How was anime before Eva, and how was it after
>>139031698
It created a period in anime called "Post Evangelion"
Recommend
https://youtu.be/dZFFXLswp8Q
>>139032716
TL;DW
Anime industry was declining but Ghost in the Shell and NGE revived it.
NGE was so controversial that it influenced anime directors to make shows more artistic and creative instead of commercial.
>>139032716
Go to 2:16
. and 4:05
>>139021365
Shippers should just be mulched.
>>139028051
>waifu
>rape
I wil dox and kill you I fucking swear.
>>139026578
>Fuck
Misato, most experienced milf and will smoke a cig with you afterwards + drinking as foreplay.
>Marry
Asuka, best grill, i just want to cuddle her all day long.
>Kill
Rei,if someone has to die i will kill the one that can be replaced.
>>139030936
I rewatched Eva 6 times. Haven't watched the japanese dub tho, but I tried it out in russian. The russian dub is surprisingly good.
>>139034505
Does Russia actually dub things? Would have never thought.
>>139034690
Why not? Its a huge country and shit.
I should try 1 anime in russian for the luls, wonder if the characters yell cyka blyat or shit like that when they are mad.
>>139026594
/thread
It's already common knowledge that relatablility is what makes /a/ so mad.
>>139016065
Shinji is one of the best characters in anime, no joke.
>>139034764
>Why not? Its a huge country and shit.
I heard its more common to just dub over one voice over the original audio.
And isnt Russia state controlled like China or something. I dont know to be honest.
>>139027020
>>139027021
>>139027046
>could move Eva on his first try with no prior training, plugsuit or bunny ears
Also going berserk makes no sense. Eva kids were in deep shit in almost every angel attack.
>>139016065
i really liked Shinji in the 2.0 movie because he finally had the will to make sacrifices for his desire but 3.0 completely dashed it and turned him back into the fucking beta bitch as he just sits there in the pod
>>139027730
>Kaworu was trying to take humanity's life
Except he wasn't. He could've wrecked everything in take over the earth with his progenitors but be let himself die so Shinji can trigger instrumentality and learn to make friends or something.
>>139034690
>>139034764
Yes, Russia dubs the most popular anime.
And as far as Eva's dub goes, it was really good. While it was a voice over dub, all the actors sounded like the characters and it was well translated (nobody said cuka bljad), almost 1:1 translation.
>>139030113
I know in what im evolving faggot
>>139027730
Kaworu didn't 'betray' Shinji for being an angel. Shinji didn't give a fuck if Kaworu was an angel or not, Shinji was mad that Kaworu didn't tell him he was an angel.
Watch episode 24 again, Shinji doesn't even care if Kaworu killed everyone, even if Misato, Asuka, and Rei's lives and everyone else he knew throughout the whole show are in danger, Shinji doesn't care if it means he can be with Kaworu.
It's only because Kaworu begged him to kill him that Shinji went through with it, had Kaworu actually wanted to destroy everything Shinji would have let him without a care in the world.
This is why Shinji is a shit, he literally would not give a fuck if all these people who care about him and got to know him throughout the show died, all for some random albino kid he knew for a day.
Rei is hella ugly and looks like a toilet seat
>>139026578
Marry Asuka
Fuck Misato
Kill the ugly toilet
>>139016065
Asuka is the best character
>>139035820
>>139035767
Butthurt samefag gtfo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AY27gLWhtM
I nearly came from watching this. How can i watch anime in 60fps outside youtube?
>>139036425
shit I was just about to ask
do any of you guys know what the song is called that plays when the fight just starts? I'm going a little nuts trying to find it it gave me fuckin goosebumps and music rarely does that for medat fucking execution was perfect, surprised I'd taken so long to watch it.
>>139035737
I want all of these posts about Shinji and Kaworu to be bait, but I really think you niggers are just incapable of basic comprehension.
Shinji is depressed to the point of worthlessness and only one being shows him the degree of compassion, understanding, and SELFLESS love he craves. Have you never had a best friend? Never been in love? The timeframe doesn't make it bad writing -- Shinji has never been shown proper affection and when he finally is, it's the only thing he wants, selfishly and above the well-being of the rest of the cast/world.
>>139036479
I understand where he's coming from, but it still doesn't make it right.
He chooses Kaworu over Misato, Asuka, Rei, and everyone in the series who loved and cared for him. He chooses the enemy over his own species and would have let them all die if Kaworu didn't tell him to kill him. And even then Shinji still thought Kaworu should have survived and not him. He literally says to Misato's face at the end of the episode that Kaworu should have survived, which means that everyone like Misato should have died.
How the fuck do you think Misato felt when she heard that? This fucking Shinji kid just chose the same angel who killed Misato's father over her.
Shinji is a fucking shit.
>>139036596
>Asuka
Comatose and practically dead anyways
>Rei
Not Rei as he knows her. His last interaction with her was learning that she had come back to life.
>Misato
Shinji never fully trusts Misato, and the build up trust he had for her has been deteriorating in the last few episodes.
Kaworu really is the only person who shows Shinji unconditional compassion. Shinji's also never been particularly good at thinking about the consequences and implications of the things he wants.
>>139036596
Shinji may be a douchebag, but that doesn't make him a bad character.
Wait what? So Shinji actually sex'd Kaworu????
>>139036945
Only in EoE
>>139036741
It doesn't matter. Shinji was willing to let these three innocent people die for someone he knew for one day. He was fully prepared to do it had Kaworu not commanded him to do otherwise.
This makes him a bad person.
>>139036939
I'm not saying he's a bad character, I'm saying his actions shouldn't be justified just because he's depressed or because he's experienced hardship in his life.
He's a good character, but a bad person, and he shouldn't be respected or justified for what he's done at all.
>>139037095
Yeah, I don't think anyone's going to argue that Shinji was a good person, but his actions were justified from his perspective. You're ignoring how much stress Shinji was under.
can anyone explain me the asuka is a tranvestitte meme?
Rei toilet meme is obvious but i dont get the other one.
>>139037203
No, his actions weren't justified.
It's never justified to wish death upon innocent people in your life.
The argument about stress is bullshit too because Shinji completely abandoned Rei and Misato when they were alone in their times of need to go frolic with some random kid he just met.
He knew Misato was depressed from Kaji, and he still chose to fool around with Kaworu and have the time of his life instead of going home to her.
>>139037300
lots
and lots
of futa pornography
>>139037327
wish death upon =/= fail to properly weigh the consequences of your actions in an emotionally-fucked-up state
>>139037401
You're exaggerating.
Shinji isn't retarded, he knows that everyone will die if he does nothing. Fuck, Kaworu even tells him everyone will die, and Kaworu still has to beg Kaworu to kill him for Shinji to actually do it.
The fact that Shinji even hesitated on the decision proves what kind of person he is.
>>139037327
Did I not already explain how Shinji didn't really trust Misato? He thinks most of the reason she takes care of him is because it's her job.
>>139037482
What are you talking about? If you were asked to kill one of your friends to save a bunch of other people, or even to personally kill a person to save everyone, you would definitely have some trepidation about that decision, no matter how pragmatic you are.
>>139037300
Asuka looks like a man in the show
>>139037563
Kaworu isn't a person, he's an angel. The enemy of mankind.
Whether Shinji doesn't trust Misato or not is irrelevant, the fact that Shinji would throw away all of humanity shows he is irredeemable.
He had fun with Asuka, Misato, and Rei. He had fun with Touji and Kensuke too, and he's willing to throw it all away for Kaworu. He's irredeemable.
>>139023371
Nigga close to dying and seeins some tittites will make you act in strange ways i probably would have done worse tbqh
>>139037095
Honestly, I have to agree here.
If say Kaworu merging with Lilith would destroy all of humanity, but it would allow Shinji to still survive and live with Kaworu, Shinji would accept in a heartbeat. Even if it would mean everyone else in the show would be dead.
Shinji is really selfish and always prioritizes himself and his own desires over others, and the show shows this constantly. I don't think the show ever tries to portray him in a sympathetic light and so we shouldn't be praising his actions, but that makes him all the more a fantastic realistic character.
>>139037660
Alright, so I guess you bought into that bullshit Misato said. Kaworu is a person. He isn't human (Rei isn't either), but he expresses the features unique to personhood, like the ability to communicate with others.
>>139037776
He probably would have done it but would have ended up regretting his actions, much like he does in Instrumentality.
>>139037776
>>139037095
You're both wrong, because you're inserting your own hypothetical to back up your statement.
>>139026578
Fuck misato
Kill the bule haired bitch
Marry best girl asuka
>>139037327
>He knew Misato was depressed from Kaji, and he still chose to fool around with Kaworu and have the time of his life instead of going home to her.
It's not a childs job to comfort his caretaker, though. Misato shouldn't even have taken him in considering she seemed to have like zero idea about what it means to be someones guardian.
>>139037865
By arguing that Kaworu is a person, you would have to argue that Sachiel and Ramiel are people too.
You can't define someone a person just because they look like a person.
And I have no doubt in my mind that he would not regret his actions, Shinji rejected instrumentality because there was neither good nor bad in it, but with Kaworu it's all good (before he reveals himself an angel at least).
>>139037887
EoE shows Shinji holds little value for humanity, if you didn't already get the impression with NGE.
The hypothetical just furthers what is already proven by the show.
>>139027316
This i would have been perving real hard on asuka and piloting the eva with a boner every single time
How many times has /a/ had this thread? Its probably over 500 times.
>>139016065
There are as many people that hate Shinji/Asuka/Rei/Misato etc for their less desirable traits as there are those that appreciate them.
You aren't special for liking him and if people don't care for him due to his flaws or other reasons those are perfectly valid opinions.
>>139038023
>EoE shows Shinji holds little value for humanity, if you didn't already get the impression with NGE.
>The hypothetical just furthers what is already proven by the show.
If the show proved your hypothetical, it wouldn't be a hypothetical.
At any rate, your hypothetical doesn't have any value in or outside itself, save for fanfiction.
>>139038023
>Sachiel and Ramiel are people too.
Anon, they are. Angels are just humanity in a different form.
>>139037327
In EoE he also turned everyone into tang because he was butthurt and ran to help Asuka because no one else was left. He's a shitty person.
>>139027316
Yes, most 14 years olds would love to be child soldiers risking their life and would be totally comfortable with having only one parental figure who tries to fuck them
>>139038114
In fact, humans are the 18th angel.
>>139016065
I hate every single character in evangelion. All of them just want to ruin eachother and I hate watching that group of monsters interact.
>>139038114
>>139038023
>>139037865
>>139037776
>>139037660
Doesn't matter whether or not Kaworu is a "person". He's the enemy of mankind and has chosen to be that himself. The angels are living, breathing entities of varying intelligence, they can all communicate in some form or another.
Problem is, they're hostile.
>>139026962
Yes it does, dumbass
>>139026351
Not everyone feels the same way you do.
>>139038270
Im pretty sure at some point in the series they say two different angel species can't coexist, altough its never explained why.
I assume its some "DNA voice" kind of crap telling them to kill the other races.
>>139038291
No, being a psycopath makes you do that.
I've been depressed and angsty and know a lot of people who felt that too and none of them murdered anyone.
>>139038162
I would so theres that....
>>139038270
This if a hostile sentient being tries to kill fuck it and kill it with fucking fire if a normal human tries to kill me i have no problem acting out in self denfense less so for another species or entity
>>139038430
but Shinji wasn't an edgy killer he was a depressed teen who basically thought "why should I save the world if I'm just going to be miserable"
>>139038443
Not everyone feels that way. I would be bothered by killing someone in self defense, though I would be completely justified in doing so.
>>139038534
Then its obvious that EVA would be entirely different if the main character had an actual sense of self preservation and slight concern for others
>>139038605
Of course it would be.
>>139028065
No, everything after Toguro is horrible.
I always thought about how the humans could completely destroy the angels and how many of them actually existed and if there was any real way of stopping them also never understood where they really came from
>>139033997
Waifu rape is fine as long as it's consensual.
Kinoko Nasu, co-founder of Type-Moon, author Tsukihime and Fate/stay night.
>Overall, the cause was because of watching the first episode of Neon Genesis Evangelion, which can't have been ignored by neither I nor my contemporaries. The story goes back to my high school days, where I met Takeuchi-kun. At the time I announced that I will become a novelist in the future, and Takeuchi-kun said he will become a manga artist, this was like the plot of some popular manga, and in reality we talked to each other quite a bit. Thinking back on it now, it was pretty embarrassing (laughs). Since then, we both graduated from college, Takeuchi-kun went to work at a game company, and I found a local job. I had the casual goal of "finding some time to write a novel," and I didn't notice my dream was slowly being buried while I lived idly as the day by day. Neon Genesis Evangelion was what gave me a big push in the back... or should I say kicked me and sent me flying. Not even the first episode itself, I felt my brain had been smacked hard after just watching the opening theme. My heart thought, how can someone think to bring the PV (Promotion Video) method to anime? How ideas can be expressed so freely in anime? "If there are people in this world who are so ahead of the rest, what am I still being confused about?" My heart was severely shocked. I supposed Eva has the charm and enthusiasm that makes people think "I have to do something." I'm sure of it. Instead of idly saying "when I have time next time," I should at least write something.
>>139026578
Marry Asuka
Fuck Misato in the ass while she cries about her daddy issues
Kill Rei and use her corpse to do kinky weird shit with Asuka when we get bored
>>139038112
Do you know how to read?
I said the hypothetical proves the same thing that the show does, not that the show proves the hypothetical.
But considering you like Rei "fanwank" Ayanami, there's little value to come out of interaction with you.
>>139038270
This.
And that's why Shinji is a fucking shit.
>>139029842
>Shinji and Misato have the best character development in the series.
Fixed that for you, Rei does not belong in the ranks of Shinji and Misato. She's hardly a better character than Maya.
>>139039157
>I said the hypothetical proves the same thing that the show does, not that the show proves the hypothetical.
Logically equivalent. Do you know anything at all?
>>139039204
Kaworu is a fucking shit. Shinji's OK.
>>139039252
>>139039157
Oh boy, looks like we've got an irrational Rei-hater here.
>>139038430
No, it doesn't you retard. There's a thing called revenge. And it wouldn't be unexpected for Shinji to kill his asshole father at any point of the series.
>>139039260
>Logically equivalent.
Not at all. Go back to preschool.
Shinji is a shit for choosing that shit over every other character in the show.
>>139039252
Hm? I think he's quite right, Shinji, Rei and Misato has the top tier development. That you clearly exaggerate by putting Rei among Maya undermines you.
>>139039317
I don't hate Rei, but it's clear that any "depth" on her part is reliant on how much the fans want to fanwank about her.
She's not a good character and proves that Anno can only make magic when he has personal investment in something; see characters he actually likes like Misato.
>>139039367
It is logically equivalent, but as I said, it was false.
Shinji didn't choose "that shit" over anyone else. He killed "that shit". He felt bad about it, but he killed "that shit".
Come on every Otaku should love Shinji. Because we are all white scrawny pussies.
>>139039403
Rei doesn't have any development besides for what you yourself imagine as the fan.
To put her side by side with actual well-thought characters like Shinji and Misato is an embarrassment to those characters.
>>139039429
>I don't hate Rei, but it's clear that any "depth" on her part is reliant on how much the fans want to fanwank about her.
You're thinking of Asuka or Kaworu, not Rei.
Rei, Shinji and Misato are the character with the clearest character development in the anime, with actual courses of change and meaningful conclusions to them as human representations.
While it's true that Anno is more liable to spend time on characters he likes, it doesn't guarantee a good character. See the Rebuilds or Asuka in NGE, he spent a lot of time including Asuka but it didn't result in as good as a character as the three earlier mentioned.
>>139039474
See above. It doesn't take any imagining to see what Rei concludes with, using her own rationale and words in eps 23, 24 and 25, or EoE.
>>139038916
Then it's not rape retard. Asuka is my waifu and I'd passionately love her but I wouldn't call it rape.
>>139039449
Shinji chose that shit over everyone else all throughout the episode.
He went to Kaworu instead of Misato when she was depressed over Kaji.
He went to Kaworu instead of helping Rei who Shinji abandoned in her biggest time of need.
He went to Kaworu over any other person that was currently struggling.
And he was ready to allow everyone to die had Kaworu not commanded Shinji to kill him, and even after Shinji killed him he still regretted his choice.
He told Misato right in front of her face that Kaworu should have survived over him, that the murderer of her father should have survived, even if that meant her, Rei, and everyone else he ever knew would die.
Shinji is a fucking shit who doesn't care about any of the people who took care of him and tried to help him throughout the entire show. He's a good character, but none of his actions should be justified. Not at all.
>>139039549
Stop degrading Shinji and Misato. They have actual scenes of fleshing out and development beyond saying a few vague phrases every couple of episodes.
How ironic that you bring up Asuka when she has entire episodes dedicated to the depiction of her character when all Rei has is a cameo of her in similar positions and with similar dialogue every couple of episodes.
Rei is the prime example of what a character acts like when the creator has no idea what to do with them. False depth.
>>139039575
>Shinji chose that shit over everyone else all throughout the episode.
Not really.
Shinji had fell out with those people for various reasons. IN episode 24 he's pondering what to do about it, and admits to himself that he either lacks the courage to face Rei, or any point to see Asuka who can't do anything. She can't even speka.
He went to Kaworu because he's desperate.
In the end he kills Kaworu.
He's not a fucking shit, he's a messed up kid for sure, but not exactly a little shit. I don't expect grown people to make the right choices in those situations nor do I expect a traumatized, terrorized and frightened child.
>>139039558
I'm thinking rape like in The Fountainhead, where the girl is outwardly resisting to maintain her dignity but you have such a deep connection with her you know she actually desperately wants it and just can't let herself give it up willingly. Lovingly knowing pseudo-rape is where it's at.
If life were an ocean and people were boats sailing it, Shinji would be a cork, going where the current takes him.
Not in a charming drifter way, in an indicisive weak person way. He hardly takes any meaningful action in any direction without /significant/ influence from the outside. Any person with even vague desires or goals would act more than Shinji.
>>139039671
>They have actual scenes of fleshing out and development beyond saying a few vague phrases every couple of episodes.
So does Rei. I fail to see how you're angry about this, unless you weren't just a Rei-hater.
>How ironic that you bring up Asuka when she has entire episodes dedicated to the depiction of her character when all Rei has is a cameo of her in similar positions and with similar dialogue every couple of episodes.
Rei also has entire episodes or even monologues dedicate to her.
We're not debating screentime, but character. If we're debating screentime, then it goes in the following order:
Shinji > Misato > Asuka > Rei > nearly everyone > Kaworu > the rest
Shortened down somewhat, but that's how it is for screentime. Not counting OP's and ED's of course.
>Rei is the prime example of what a character acts like when the creator has no idea what to do with them. False depth.
I don't think you know what you're talking about. Rei has her character arc, which stands clearly stronger than everyone else not mentioned on that other Anon's list. There's nothing false about Rei's development here, and so far you've repeated yourself but not really given any arguments as to why.
>>139039704
>Not really.
Yes really.
Whether he fell out with those people or not doesn't matter.
The fact that he even hesitated against killing everyone, everyone that is part of his own species makes him a shit.
To consider killing people for his own selfishness makes him an absolute shit.
He abandoned Rei when she needed him most, he ran away from her just because she's a little different. He abandoned Misato when she was crying over Kaji.
Either of them could have gotten killed and he wouldn't have been there to help him.
His killing of Kaworu only happened because Kaworu told him to kill him, and even then look at how much he hesitated. And then he has the fucking audacity to say Kaworu should have lived over him, TO MISATO!
He's saying that Misato and everyone should have fucking died, right to her face.
A shit. Being traumatized or desperate doesn't matter, he's not a good person and no amount of depression will change that.
He's irresponsible, selfish, and has no value or care for humanity and the people who cared for him.
>>139039846
I want to see what show you watched where Rei can stand by Misato and Shinji, or even Asuka with the same character. Because it certainly wasn't Eva.
>Rei also has entire episodes or even monologues dedicate to her.
She has no episodes dedicated to her and she has one monologue. Which goes exactly into my point, all she has is vague phrases of dialogue. That's not a character, that's an empty shell of a speech-box to put in something cool by the creator.
Rei was a background prop that Anno turned to when he had nothing left to write about, and it was the laziest thing in the entire fucking show.
>>139039881
>Whether he fell out with those people or not doesn't matter.
It does, because if he's fallen out with them or has other reasons to not visit them, you can't say he's doing for no other reason than to be a shit.
I consider this part of the argument to be over as it's not up for debate that Shinji did the right thing, as he clearly didn't, but rather that there weren't emotional and circumstantial factors that excuses his actions as to be expected of any other person in that same situation.
While killing Kaworu is an acceptable solution that solves many things, it was arguably not the best one.
>>139039575
>
His actions should not be justified that is true, but Kaworu deceived him into believing that
Kaworu knew Shinji weakness was and that weakness are feelings which he never experienced,
Kawrou used that weakness to gain Shinji trust so Shinji would doubt whether to stop his plans or not.
That is why Shinji went to him, because Shinji had trust in him, Shinji thought that Kaworu liked him not because he wanted him to do something for him but he thought Kaworu liked him for the person he is.
But Kaworu knew that Shinji still had trust in him and Kaworu thought he could trick Shinji again by saying that he should kill him even though he thought that if he told Shinji to do that, he won't do it because he knew that Shinji trusted him the most.
The only reason why Shinji said his actions were wrong was because he didn't understand why would Kaworu out of all people would do this, making him think that he is the monster.
Shinji actions could not be justified, but he was deceived and by that making him blind.
>>139039881
>he ran away from her just because she's a little different.
Anon, Rei CAME BACK FROM THE DEAD. He's freaked out by that, and for good reason. Don't underplay shit for your benefit.
>He abandoned Misato when she was crying over Kaji.
Yes, because she had propositioned him for sex earlier. He was extremely uncomfortable around her after that.
>>139040064
I would argue that killing Kaworu is the only solution in the situation, but that doesn't mean it is a pleasant solution.
>>139040064
>you can't say he's doing for no other reason than to be a shit
If you hadn't barged into the conversation half-way through and actually bothered to read my previous posts, then you'd know I say he's a shit for his very reasons to not visit them: his own selfishness.
>as it's not up for debate that Shinji did the right thing, as he clearly didn't
That was my whole argument you fucking idiot. Why respond at all if you don't even know what the topic of conversation is?
Shinji cannot be justified in this situation, and never will be.
If you had read the conversation from the beginning, you would know this.
I'm not surprised that you're a waifufag, a shallow interest in Eva will only result in shallow posts about Eva.
>>139040019
>I want to see what show you watched where Rei can stand by Misato and Shinji, or even Asuka with the same character. Because it certainly wasn't Eva.
I don't see an argument in this. Just misplaced anger.
>She has no episodes dedicated to her and she has one monologue.
>she has one monologue
She has several actually considering the later episodes, but we remember the "one" in episode 14 due to how early it is and how it's not part of the common introspection brought on from instrumentality. She does have episodes that are Rei-centric, with her name in the title and all.
So your point remains unsubstantiated, and so far you've only moved the goalposts, and I suspect you'll keep on moving them until you go off on some other tangent rather than conceding. Both you and I know that you're wrong here.
There is a lack of concrete criticism of Rei's character in all of your posts so far, all you've had so far is hostility. That is to say, faked indignation that insults Rei or made up allegeations of Rei's character that doesn't involve the material found in the show, but rather the concept around it. If there's anything vague here anon, is is your post.
Evangelion clearly depicts Rei as a depressed, downtrodden and confused character with severe social ignorance who defines herself anew, reconsideres her relationships and ultimately acts on what she's learned. This is a very, very powerful character that more than anything puts her in the top three of Evangelion characters.
>>139039776
I don't know man, seems shifty. I've always been a moralfag with sexual stuff anyway.
>>139040203
>Shinji cannot be justified in this situation, and never will be.
"Justified" just means having a reason for your actions, which Shinji does. They make sense for him.
>>139040124
>His actions should not be justified that is true
So in other words, you prove my side of the argument correct.
The rest of your post is just fanwank about Kaworu that is never shown or hinted in the episode.
Kaworu doesn't have enough character to show his motivation or purpose either way in the episode, and it has no involvement on Shinji not being a good person, because we already see this from his character before the episode in question.
We can't even say that Kaworu tried to deceive him because Shinji wasn't even strong enough to stop Kaworu when he went at full power.
>>139040199
>Rei CAME BACK FROM THE DEAD. He's freaked out by that, and for good reason.
Excuses. Shinji was supposed to be Rei's friend and he abandoned her the minute he could.
It shows he gives absolutely no value or care for her to run away and ignore her the second he learns something about her he doesn't like.
It shows how shallow and cruel Shinji is, to completely drop Rei and their entire relationship especially when she needs it most, and then to GO TO SOMEONE ELSE THE VERY NEXT DAY!
Shinji is a fucking shit.
>>139040332
Not at all.
If someone barges into your room right now and murders you because they don't like your sweater, they are not justified. They have a reason, but the murder is not justified.
Same with Shinji.
>>139040199
>I would argue that killing Kaworu is the only solution in the situation, but that doesn't mean it is a pleasant solution.
There was the option of coexistence, of using Kaworu to his own ends and using him as a tool for defense. Perhaps long-term that could be problematic, as Kaworu is more or less mentally retarded and too volatile to function as an ally.
Which is why I say that killing him is more than acceptable considering the risks of not doing it. So good on Shinji for setting out to do it, even though it no doubt was hard for him - he did the right thing here, or at least, a right thing.
>>139040203
>If you hadn't barged into the conversation half-way through and actually bothered to read my previous posts, then you'd know I say he's a shit for his very reasons to not visit them: his own selfishness.
Your indignation of receiving a response in a public discussion forum aside, Shinji's selfishness is as expected for someone put in his situation. It is more accurate to call the situation shit, rather than just Shinji shit in this case.
I'm not arguing that he does the right thing (as in the best possible thing) in not visiting them. I think, that Misato or Rei could have attempted to visit him as well. But they are also too hooped up with their own issues at the moment.
I don't really fault them either, despite knowing full well that they didn't do the best thing.
>That was my whole argument you fucking idiot. Why respond at all if you don't even know what the topic of conversation is?
Because considering your argument and your conclusion, you've clearly come to the wrong conclusion. I'm responding on that basis and always have.
That he's a "fucking shit" is going overboard, and blatantly being ignorant of the characters and setting involved.
>I'm not surprised that you're a waifufag, a shallow interest in Eva will only result in shallow posts about Eva.
I'm confident that I've been less shallow in my argumentation and understanding than you.
>>139040283
>She does have episodes that are Rei-centric, with her name in the title and all.
She doesn't. Her name in the title means nothing when she barely appears in said episodes. Having her "monologue" in the recap episode says leagues about the "character" itself.
She's a joke in comparison to Shinji, Misato, and Asuka.
>This is a very, very powerful character
It can't be a powerful character when all it's done is say vague pieces of dialogue in one minute here and there across the show.
A powerful character is one as expressed in Misato's scene crying over the telephone, or Shinji's scene with his cello, or Asuka's scene screaming at the bathtub.
Rei has none of this and never did.
There's a reason why Anno has no interest in her, it's because he wrote no interest in her. She's the representation of his poor writing and he knows it.
He's embarrassed by her existence.
>>139040124
>>139039575
What he says isn't as unsubstantiated as you think. Kaworu himself says that Shinji's heart is as fragile as glass, which is correct - meaning Kaworu does know Shinji's weakness. Whether he deliberately abused that knowledge or not is another debate, but he knew.
What Kaworu is definitely guilty of however, is of knowingly betraying Shinji and not only that, planning and threatening to destroy all of mankind.
>>139040455
Are you just stupid? If someone you watched die woke up in a hospital room and told you that she was "the third one", would you not be freaked out? Would you seriously be able to confront her after that? I know that I wouldn't.
Also, you're right, I'm using the word justified wrong. But he does have reasons for what he does, and they aren't build exclusively on insanity.
>>139040665
>Kaworu himself says that Shinji's heart is as fragile as glass, which is correct - meaning Kaworu does know Shinji's weakness.
He talks about Shinji's desire for communication despite his fear for getting hurt. I don't see how he could take advantage of a weakness like that.
Whether Kaworu met Shinji or not wouldn't have stopped him from going into central dogma at a time when no one is there, at full power to merge with Lilith.
He didn't need to take any advantage of Shinji to achieve this goal, he had it in the bag.
The fact that SEELE knew Kaworu would fail suggests that Kaworu may have had his own weaknesses and desires that would conflict with joining Lilith.
>>139040798
If she was my friend, I wouldn't just fucking run away and ignore her.
You're not a good person if you do the latter, especially if you do it by hanging out with someone else the next day and not even caring about that person anymore.
Shinji's reasons (excuses) just further prove he is not a good person.
>>139040642
>She doesn't. Her name in the title means nothing when she barely appears in said episodes.
She appears plenty and happens to be the main theme, even for other characters. You simply are without a point here anon.
>Having her "monologue" in the recap episode says leagues about the "character" itself.
>She's a joke in comparison to Shinji, Misato, and Asuka.
Again, there's no argument here. Just wrongly made conclusions and assertions.
>It can't be a powerful character when all it's done is say vague pieces of dialogue in one minute here and there across the show.
There isn't anything vague about it, quite the opposite. Rei's dialogue concerning those issues are direct, and you as the viewer are included directly in her thought process, guiding you to the eventual conclusion.
>A powerful character is one as expressed in Misato's scene crying over the telephone, or Shinji's scene with his cello, or Asuka's scene screaming at the bathtub.
None of that has to do with powerful character. Merely showing screaming, crying or a scene with cello does not create good character or a powerful one. In shonen, characters cry and scream constantly, some commit suicide. But they aren't particularly powerful characters for that reason.
It's about having a consistent context to which the character grows into those moments, and for truly great characters like Rei, beyond them. I mean, if crying over an object is all it takes for you, you should be satisfied when Rei cries over the glasses, or sheds tears in her EVA.
So yet again, you are missing a strong, concrete argument here, and everything you've made can easily be shown to be wrong by simply referring to the scenes in the series which disprove you.
You're not convincing anyone here, anon. Take your misplaced Rei-hatred and get to what actually makes you so angry, your own inadequacy.
>>139040570
The minute you say Shinji's selfishness and disregard for humanity and his peers who he has gotten to know throughout the series is justified, you lose.
Shinji is a shit under all things considered. He is not a good person.
The rest of your post is just not worth my time, you don't even bother to read the argument at hand.
how old are u guys? 13?
>>139040874
I mean, good on you, but I still think he's being reasonable. He doesn't even think Rei is really Rei anymore. He's actively scared of her and I think he has a good reason for that, seeing as she appears to be immortal.
>>139040976
Nice posts. Are you 12?
>>139040818
>He talks about Shinji's desire for communication despite his fear for getting hurt. I don't see how he could take advantage of a weakness like that.
In which case, you'd be terminally autistic and further discussion with you would have to cease right now.
But it's more likely that you're feigning ignorance because you got blown the fuck out with that mention of what happened in the series, so I'll just mention that it makes Shinji a prime target for emotional exploitation and manipulation.
>Whether Kaworu met Shinji or not wouldn't have stopped him from going into central dogma at a time when no one is there, at full power to merge with Lilith.
Yes, because Kaworu isnt' a good guy and would actually try to commit genocide like that. We know this.
However, meeting Shinji would lead him to understand that it's a wrong thing to do, and so trying to do it anyway means he's even worse of a person/being.
>The fact that SEELE knew Kaworu would fail suggests that Kaworu may have had his own weaknesses and desires that would conflict with joining Lilith.
They didn't know, they were merely hoping, which is what SEELE themselves literally explain in ep 24.
Long story short, Kaworu is a fucking shit, Shinji isn't.
>>139040913
>She appears plenty and happens to be the main theme
The main theme of Eva is the hedgehog dilemma.
Rei is a disgrace to this theme as her "character" is a shoddily put together existentialism crisis that is never developed or fleshed out.
> Rei's dialogue concerning those issues are direct
Not at all. Rei's dialogue is the vaguest thing in the series. The monologue proves this.
It can be interpreted in so many different ways that it has no substance at all.
It's just things being said without any meaning or purpose. Just to sound cool by Anno.
>Merely showing screaming, crying or a scene with cello does not create good character or a powerful one.
It does in the context of those characters constantly developing. Something Rei does not have, because all she has is substanceless scenes like randomly crying over glasses. There's no point, and it reeks of amateur writing.
I like that you bring up shonen, because that's probably the best way to describe Rei.
Her "depth" is about as fake and dramatized as your average shonen.
Even a character that shows up half way through the Anime like Asuka makes Rei seem like a waste of screentime.
>>139041125
Wow, you just have no reading comprehension.
>>139041078
>try to commit genocide like that
He'd have to be a person to commit genocide.
Kaworu has no obligation to humanity, Shinji does.
This makes Shinji's actions even worse than Kaworu's considering this, though they are both awful "people".
>>139040941
I just searched my whole post for "justified" and it shows up no results. Anon, you wouldn't be putting words in my mouth now, would you? Because that's low, and it means you lose.
>>139041179
Wow, dumb waifufag proving they're shallow pieces of unwanted shit once again.
>>139041223
You already agreed with me 5 posts ago, any further posts made by you is deflecting the fact that you proved me right in the very same post you entered the conversation.
Next time don't enter the middle of an argument and bother reading the posts above you, okay? Then you don't have to try and get rid of this stingy embarrassment you feel.
>>139041125
>The main theme of Eva is the hedgehog dilemma.
Look, now you're just being stupid. Both you and I were clearly discussing episodes, in which Rei becomes the main theme. The overarching theme is quite obviously unrelated.
>Rei is a disgrace to this theme as her "character" is a shoddily put together existentialism crisis that is never developed or fleshed out.
More developed and fleshed out than non-Shinji characters, so I guess Eva's character are nearly all disgraces then.
>Not at all. Rei's dialogue is the vaguest thing in the series. The monologue proves this.
>It can be interpreted in so many different ways that it has no substance at all.
Anno says that about his entire work in particularly the ending, but that is all beside the point and you're moving goalposts again because you lost the argument.
Rei does in fact have lengthy bits about herself including this monologue, which disproves your claims to the opposite. We're done.
>It does in the context of those characters constantly developing. Something Rei does not have, because all she has is substanceless scenes like randomly crying over glasses. There's no point, and it reeks of amateur writing.
It's not random, as Rei has been associating those glasses with Gendo since the early episodes of NGE, something we've gotten flashback scenes to consider as well. There's quite the substance and meaning in her now breaking glasses she cherished as a connection to Gendo.
>I like that you bring up shonen, because that's probably the best way to describe Rei.
>Her "depth" is about as fake and dramatized as your average shonen.
>Even a character that shows up half way through the Anime like Asuka makes Rei seem like a waste of screentime.
These three lines don't have any argument in them, unfortunately.
You haven't had any arguments that actually work throughout the entire thread anon. It's time to retire.
>>139041183
>He'd have to be a person to commit genocide.
Genocide is the willful murder of an ethnic group of people, and Kaworu's attempt at that qualifies him.
If you're assigning morals to Kaworu, then he has all the obligations everyone else has. Otherwise you're declaring him amoral by nature, which also feeds my point that he's dangerous and "a fucking shit".
Shinji isn't as bad as you put him.
>>139041295
I haven't uttered the word "justified" in any posts concerning this argument whatsoever. Next time, don't show how poor your mental facilities are by demonstrating you can't keep track of a simple back-and-forth argument.
>>139041416
>Both you and I were clearly discussing episodes, in which Rei becomes the main theme
And you and I both know she doesn't.
She's a background prop, and this frustrates you, doesn't it?
>More developed and fleshed out than non-Shinji characters
More fleshed out than characters like Maya, but that's not saying much when Rei herself doesn't have a stable presence in Eva or its themes. She's just, "there".
>Anno says that about his entire work in particularly the ending
He says the ending is up to interpretation, which any author should rightfully say. It's intended to be ambiguous. The problem being the characters involved in the ending are not ambiguous, their development and depiction is very objectively presented in the series.
Rei? Not so much. Her character is only given depth by the audience's fanwanking about her. We have to guess and assume to give her objectivity. It's lazy writing by the author.
Anno also says Rei is popular because she's "mysterious", which further proves my point. The fans make the character, because she herself is not a character.
>We're done.
You can give up if you like, the show still sings a different tune.
>There's quite the substance and meaning
And it's as shallow as any relationship in a shounen. One flashback and we already have half a description of Rei's character. Pathetic, in the words of Asuka.
>>139041566
You didn't have to use the word justified, because you still agreed with me.
You would have known this if you bothered to read the entire conversation instead of butting in the middle.
Just, why? What was the point in doing that? Why intentionally make a fool of yourself?
And now you're too embarrassed to bow out for your mistake, and I'm stuck here licking your ego.
>>139041496
Then you genocide ants every time you walk on grass. You and Kaworu are the same in that regard, except you actually killed and he didn't.
Honestly, I couldn't give less of a shit about Kaworu as he really has no relevance to the argument.
Shinji did what he did and he should be at fault for it. He's a shit, and the show tells this to you constantly, why are you trying to deny it?
It's not like it's the first time we're shown it in the Kaworu episode. We've known it since the very beginning.
Shinji is not supposed to be a good person.
>>139041695
I don't think I've made any mistake here, but you've fucked up twice with your arrogant demand that I said it was "justified". You lose.
>>139035290
no you don't. that's why you're a shinji. you're running away from the truth.
>>139041869
Anon, you can just read the first post you made in response to me.
Stop embarrassing yourself, it's just unsightly.
You and I both know the argument did not rely on the usage of justified or not, and you yourself agreed with my side of the argument in your first post. At least read what you said in the past rather than desperately hanging on for validation.
You made a fool of yourself, get over it. Just use this mistake as warning to not barge into the middle of an argument next time, okay?
>>139041783
>Then you genocide ants every time you walk on grass. You and Kaworu are the same in that regard, except you actually killed and he didn't.
Verily, I'm not. I'm not exterminating the earth's entire ant-population or even trying to do it. Kaworu is.
It's more than simply being part of a different species here.
>Honestly, I couldn't give less of a shit about Kaworu as he really has no relevance to the argument.
He's been part of it since the start. As far as I was part of it. As it stands, Kaworu is a horrid person.
>Shinji did what he did and he should be at fault for it. He's a shit, and the show tells this to you constantly, why are you trying to deny it?
What exactly did he do, and why do you think he's not faulted for it?
All I'm arguing for, and I've done so successfully so far, is that you've severely overstated how much he should be faulted for what he's done. We can assert with ease that he is relatively good when compared to the people surrounding him.
>>139041978
The only thing that's embarrassing is how much damage control you're doing right now. You've gone off the rails crazy showing that you don't have control of yourself or the conversation, that's embarrasing.
The last one to actually be on-topic was me, concerning the actual material to be discussed. Not you who fucked up thinking I said it was justified.
You lose anon.
>>139042007
>We can assert with ease that he is relatively good when compared to the people surrounding him.
It's not about whether he's good in comparison, it's about whether he's objectively good or not by himself. Using comparisons means you're losing the argument.
The show tells us Shinji is not a good person. He is running away from responsibility, he is hurting those around him, he is playing with the lives of humanity due to his own selfish desires.
Shinji actually goes through with exterminating everyone in EoE. Intentionally.
He is not a good person, and saying he should not be faulted is a manchild's words.
Take responsibility for your own actions and grow up. This is something Shinji needs to realize.
>>139042076
Anon, you agreed with me in the very first post you replied with and even admitted to that. You can't turn back time.
Learn from your mistakes and stop being a baby, bow out like a man.
>>139041630
>And you and I both know she doesn't.
>She's a background prop, and this frustrates you, doesn't it?
No, as none of that is true. We have e.g "Rei, beyond her heart" as an early example, where Shinji is pondering Rei, Ritsuko is explaining Rei, and Misato is discussing Rei, and then we have Rei interacting herself of course.
We both know she has, and we both know that Rei being one of the top characters frustrates you. Why is that?
>More fleshed out than characters like Maya, but that's not saying much when Rei herself doesn't have a stable presence in Eva or its themes. She's just, "there".
Well, if she's "just there", that's fairly stable. Rei is one of the characters that's there, from the start. That's Shinji, Rei, and Misato - the three characters the other anon pointed out as the top characters by his judgement. Not a coincidence.
>He says the ending is up to interpretation, which any author should rightfully say. It's intended to be ambiguous. The problem being the characters involved in the ending are not ambiguous, their development and depiction is very objectively presented in the series.
For Shinji, yes. But this again defeats your argument that having room for interpretation is bad. Too bad bitter anon.
>Not so much. Her character is only given depth by the audience's fanwanking about her. We have to guess and assume to give her objectivity. It's lazy writing by the author.
>Anno also says Rei is popular because she's "mysterious", which further proves my point. The fans make the character, because she herself is not a character.
All of this is demonstrably false, you're better off looking at Kaworu or Asuka for that kind of behavior, regardless of what Anno says. We can determine this objectively and factually, by using the original series. Kaworu has no real character and no development, he's there for one episode, so that one is easy. He is pure fanwank.
>>139041630
>>139042269
Asuka on the other hand, has a lot of screentime, but next to no development. She's also such a poor person, that every Asuka fan ignores her character and inserts fanwank. Now that's the actual problem here. Her lack of development and a proper conclusion is what makes her not qualified for the top-tier character status the others got.
Rei has that sort of well-defined, evolving character who also has a proper ending.
>You can give up if you like, the show still sings a different tune.
I've proved otherwise. You're butthurt.
>And it's as shallow as any relationship in a shounen. One flashback and we already have half a description of Rei's character. Pathetic, in the words of Asuka.
There are multiple flashbacks and current developments as well. Concerning Asuka, if you want a character that's based entirely on a flashback, that's Asuka.
It's not shallow because you say so. It happens to be realistic, believable, and fertile for further development, which she got, unlike those other characters not mentioned.
Again, you're still without any argument whatsoever after all of this.
>>139042129
>It's not about whether he's good in comparison, it's about whether he's objectively good or not by himself. Using comparisons means you're losing the argument.
Denying the comparisons means you lose the argument, actually.
Your argument since the start included other people than Shinji himself, and his treatment of them. No argument can be successfully made unless you include those other people as well, thus drawing comparisons and whatnot. You've realized that you lost this one, and deny yourself here.
>The show tells us Shinji is not a good person.
Wrong, show me where it tells you that. You can't.
> He is running away from responsibility, he is hurting those around him, he is playing with the lives of humanity due to his own selfish desires.
He is more often than not, taking responsibility, helping those around him, and being self-sacrificial. One of his problems is that he's too eager to please to get validation, he's a doormat.
>Shinji actually goes through with exterminating everyone in EoE. Intentionally.
Which is clearly after the onset of a severe mental breakdown, and after having witnessed several atrocities.
In this case, Shinji broke. But that's the point, Shinji broke down here, after going through horrors that would make other people break as well. Errant behavior in such a setting is excusable and understandable, but the error of his choices remain just that, an error.
You're the manchild for acting like a manchild, you telling anyone else to grow up is a laugh. Shinji is a fictional character, it's just like a manchild to tell something that literally cant' grow up to grow up.
>>139042269
>We have e.g "Rei, beyond her heart" as an early example
An episode where substanceless words are being transferred between characters. Saying something about Rei does not make her a character, it makes her a prop and a plot device. Which episodes like this establish.
>and we both know that Rei being one of the top characters frustrates you. Why is that?
Honestly I wish Rei could be a top character as it would make for a better show, but unfortunately she remained in the background with nothing but a rushed existentialism crisis arc that had no consistent development and fleshing out to back it up.
I didn't exactly enjoy laughing at pretentious scenes like Rei asking who she is for the one millionth time, these scenes were obviously supposed to be taken seriously and here I was laughing at Anno's poor writing. It would have been a much better experience for me if Rei was a good character.
>Well, if she's "just there", that's fairly stable.
As stable as one of many cicada in the background of an episode.
Shinji and Misato actually make and influence the show, they don't just exist in it like Rei.
>that having room for interpretation is bad
Not at all, but if you have nothing but interpretation you are not a good character. See Rei.
>you're better off looking at Kaworu or Asuka for that kind of behavior
Asuka doesn't need any fanwank to work. She's a developing fleshed out character throughout the entire show. We know everything we need to know about her without fanwank from the audience. Kaworu is just a one-shot character, we don't need to know much about him for him to work.
We cannot say the same for Rei, and that is because of poor writing.
I couldn't care less about your meta on Asukafags, it only screams your own butthurt and blindness to the facts.
>>139042171
>Anon, you agreed with me in the very first post you replied with and even admitted to that. You can't turn back time.
Just like you thought I had said "justified" but didn't, you're wrong about this one too.
Quite clearly, you're too flustered and butthurt to actually hold a decent conversation.
>>139042682
You didn't have to say justified because the argument didn't rely on that. You would have known this if you read the entire conversation from start to finish.
Holding a decent conversation means reading the context of said conversation from the beginning, not poking your head in the middle and making yourself look dumb.
Although I appreciate you agreeing with me in your very first post.
>>139042651
>An episode where substanceless words are being transferred between characters. Saying something about Rei does not make her a character, it makes her a prop and a plot device. Which episodes like this establish.
These words aren't substanceless because you say they are, and you're moving the goalpost yet again - you denied she wasn't part of the episode's theme, and now you've been forced to go back on that, and so you're moving goalposts.
If you haven't caught on, you've already lost every argument you've made so far. Moving the goalposts is just petty.
It's safe to conclude that you're a butthurt Asukafag who can't deal with the fact that Rei is a better character. Too bad.
>>139042767
>Reifag can't see anything but Asuka vs. Rei
Like pottery. Most shallow Evafags I've ever met.
>>139042651
Rei is the better character Anon.
Rei has what Asuka doesn't, a developing character. Your claims that Rei doesn't have that hasn't been based on anything. Let me show you how it's done:
Rei has a developing character because we as the viewers, are being made witnesses to Rei's thoughts, actions and justifications for changing throughout the story. When Rei breaks Gendo's glasses or distrusts Gendo, you know why because Rei has had a moment where she explains why. Even if it is at times as simple as never having been genuinely thankful to him, or if it's more strange like saying she's not letting her die.
So when the end comes, and Rei decides to give Gendo the middle finger, you know why - the development was there in the series. Strong conclusion, meaningful that she rejects her abusive "father" and becomes free.
Asuka does not have such a character, because she lacks that same type of development. Asuka remains Asuka throughout the show, and while her mental state deteriorates, she does not move on and change, even think about changing herself. Her character remains the exact same, and that is part of the reason why Asuka breaks and Rei doesn't.
So when the end comes, and Asuka fights the MP-EVA's, it doesn't have anything to do with her existing development, as it wasn't there. When she's brought back in the final scene, it was instrumentality's doing, and anything related to Asuka was off-screen.
The difference is that Rei's character is objectively on screen and detailed, while Asuka's isn't.
That's why Rei's character pans out with a start, middle and an ending, and Asuka's doesn't. That's why Asuka's ending is more or less just fanwank.
>>139042753
Just like you thought I had said "justified" but didn't, you're wrong about this one too.
Quite clearly, you're too flustered and butthurt to actually hold a decent conversation.
Again, I hold the last on-topic post in this conversation and didn't agree with you. Your dabbling into meta which has been proven wrong already, just shows that you're running away from the argument. You lost.
>>139043011
>Rei has a developing character because we as the viewers must fanwank one for her
>Rei has a developing character based on a scene in a movie that aired two years after the show
>>139043078
Nice strawman there.
