Hi /x/. /co/mrade here. I'm trying to understand "magic" as practiced by dank writer and beard gardener Alan Moore. The way he describes it, the act of writing a story can be a magical working to affect the outside world, because magic and language are closely linked (or aspects of the same thing) and our reality is made up of language and symbols. The word "grimoire" has the same root as "grammar".
People claim certain of his comics are magical workings; he wrote V for Vendetta about a subversive movement of people in Guy Fawkes masks, then a handful of years later that actually happened in the form of Anonymous (right here on 4chan). Life imitating art.
He also worships a snake-god he knows to be a hoax, for symbolic reasons. Deities could be an example of the story-as-magic phenomenon; they have no observable existance except as stories, but the idea of them has real effects on the world and its history.
So, what kind of magic is this? I don't necessarily believe it's "supernatural", but some way of manipulating iconography or memetics. Does anyone here know about or practice it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1qACd0wHd0
>>17688592
Good topic, but many on /x/ won't grasp it, or care to.
You may be interested in the Norse rune magic system-- the idea with that is that writing is a divine act; because when you write, you create.
Ansuz, the rune that belongs to the chief god Odin, is the rune of such writing, communication, and the like. Sponsored by Odin himself. Sort of a big deal.
In the ancient world, literacy was rare (and even in modern times, is very rare), and so the act of creating via words was considered a sacred talent. The more eloquent, the better. Which is a reason why Odin was known as a patron of bards, poets, and the like.
You're on to something here-- so I'd suggest looking further into the subjects of rune magic (for writing-based magic); Hermeticism (for the idea of working with a false snake-god for symbolic reasons); and further, chaos magic, though watch out for the community. Remember that chaos magic is basically post-modern hermeticism by another name, and be discerning, and you'll be fine.
Alan Moore's "FROM HELL" had a fascinating ritual idea in it.
First though I want to point out the fuckin' Depp movie of the book sucked ass and all it really shared from the book was the title.
Second, on the surface "FROM HELL" seems to be pushing various Masonic/Illuminati explanations for the murders, yeah it talks A LOT about them, but personally I don't think that's the magic part of the work.
Moore in a few brief pages of the huge work has a guy murder someone and then get transported to a different reality. It is out and out saying ritual murder is as powerful as drugs to get you outside yourself, it's a bloodlust/rush way to drug yourself. That's some hairy practice there. But think of it, why have so many religions with blood rituals, because it freaks you out, takes you elsewhere.
>>17688710
What sort of shit can I do with this?
I'm not interested in affecting orthers or doing dumb shit like attracking wealth.
I'm more interested in improving my memory, my health, shit like that.
>>17688592
>Does anyone here know about or practice it?
Do I ever.
It is the magic called "influence." It's one of my favorites because I don't need to take credit for anything that happens.
>>17688773
>What sort of shit can I do with this?
Plenty. Research the Elder Futhark runes. Ones that may interest you especially, based on what you said are: Berkano, Uruz, Inguz, Ansuz, and Perthro.
>>17688710
>many on /x/
Speak for thyself, arigato.
>>17688592
If you're looking for a Mooreian style of practice, Chaos Magick is the tradition he seems to draw the most from so you're going to be best off getting a grip on Carroll and Hine (Oven Ready Chaos, Liber Null/Psychonaut, Liber Kaos).
The extent to which Chaos Magick is non-psychological is up for debate. Magick, at every level in any culture, is going to involve manipulation and transformations of iconography, it's just we've developed a highly clinical vocabulary to describe what we know works in a lab setting.
To be honest, I favor Morrison's descriptions and approach to praxis, from what he talks about it, in comparison to Moore.
>>17688782
>Ones that may interest you especially, based on what you said are: Berkano, Uruz, Inguz, Ansuz, and Perthro.
Wizz.
>>17688872
?
What do you mean?
This is quite similar to the "sinister fiction" of the ONA and related groups.
>>17688877
Thanks.
Your post attracted all the tripcodes.
Moore did a lot in terms of building a different aproach to imagination and lateral thinking a lot more than he is credited for, sci-fi shapes the future, that's a motto I live by and it's interesting to see Moore tackling issues that wouldn't be relevant until many years later.
His interviews are full of interesting quotes and he was absorved but at the same time not fully digested by the propaganda machine known as Hollywood, and that on itself makes him one of the most influential writers of our times.
I can't praise the bearded bastard enough he just knew what to talk and how say it, to make it magical.
>>17688592
Comics are the original inscribed art form. They are powerful magic.
Pic related, shilling for ma boi Ron Regé Jr.
>>17688906
>Comics are the original inscribed art form.
>>17688922
Ah, writing, that sweet sweet φάρμαkον.
>>17688900
>>17688755
>It is out and out saying ritual murder is as powerful as drugs to get you outside yourself, it's a bloodlust/rush way to drug yourself. That's some hairy practice there. But think of it, why have so many religions with blood rituals, because it freaks you out, takes you elsewhere.
Depersonalization/drealization seems to allow one to better recognize the malleability of reality. Creating various simulations of one's self seems to reveal the simulation nature of reality.
Also, I think this is interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenochrome
If you want to know more about Alan Moore's view on magic, the best thing you can do is listen his and Steve Moore's "Moon and Serpent" series. Only one is currently on Youtube (which I have yet to listen to): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W8VAcJ8sXk
There's the "Moon and Serpent Grand Egyptian Theatre of Marvels" which is specifically about psychogeography and summoning angels, demons and gods. Then "Unearthing" is more of a biography of Steve Moore and his relationship with the moon goddess Selene, as well as some other forays into magic. You can find them both on kickass torrents.
There's also his interview on the Cult of Nick, in which he talks about his first successful summoning of Belial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW6uWus1c4w
There's also this really fucking amazing video of him performing magic in front of a camera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpHuAcKBZlg
>>17688592
So... you've read Promethea right?
>>17688592
>*starts a YES! Chant*
>>17692707
>Bearded memes.
He did it.
Grant Morrison does a better job explaining it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-cxBuRU09w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcW_EaNJQSo
No timecodes, sorry, but both of these are really good so you should listen anyway.
I'm confused about this, and maybe one of you could answer my question:
Just like you guys, I have several friends who post clever "reworkings" of symbols and satire on the site we all know and love: Facebook
Let me give you two examples of these types of postings:
-A girl I know posted an image of "Teenage Mutant Ninja Squirtles" a combination of the TMNT franchise and Pokemon. (pic related)
-In >>17692179 bottom video, you see Alan Moore wearing a shirt saying "National Pornographic"
So here my question(s):
There are countless examples of this magic online. But is there any "rhyme or reason" for making a RANDOM pun or comparison? For example: Wearing a shirt "National Pornographic", what does that GET you? (Besides, in this case, changing peoples perceptions of nature channels to something sexual?)
Do you gain power or influence just by being innovative itself, or does your pun/art/rhyme etc. have to be directed, or have meaning?
And also if you are a Facebook reposter. If your not the original author of these art "rituals", and you are just a person who repost(s) their work, then what value does it get you as a reposter?
Are you gaining power or influence by "sharing the fame" of the original author, from being apart of something innovative? (Even if you weren't the original creator?)
Is there an opportunity here, for a reposter to change the meaning of the Meme, and instead "direct it" towards the way you want to spell to effect the world?
And my last question: Why have some people become better at it then others as the internet has grown, and can a person train themselves to be a good and clever writer to "catch up" and level the playing field?
>>17693697
Yes, I view it like a symbiotic meme relationship. It's in the nature of memes to be combined for viral effect. Attach something you already know works, like pepe, to the other meme, like a samus suit or different expression, to advance or personalize it. It's why companies do advertisements using memes. No one gives a shit until you include some stupid meme everyone knows.
>>17693251
You have to admit that he looks like le retired bearded flying knee yes man
>>17693787
But what about people who just sit and repost these clever reworkings from various websites. What do THEY gain from it?
Does it make THEM, as reposters, more memorable because they are able to say to their friends "look at this memorable meme somebody made, *I* posted this" .. so by association people remember them? (Even if the excuse they use for posting it in retrospect, is that them meme is important to them in some way, when it actually isn't, it just makes them more memorable.)
And finally what type of person ends up becoming the perfect "reposter" or "receptical" of popular culture?
>>17693823
The meme lives on itself.
It over imposes to the poster, draining the reposter from his own identity replacing it with the original caster.
Like wearing an "make america great again" cap.
>>17693875
Then why are these people more popular, get more girls, and have bigger lives than us who'd rather hold our tongue and observe the world and reflect on it?
Look at youtubers for example.
Maybe its just a select few, who are rewarded by the system for being "reacters" to popular content, spreading it for the elites, or perhaps a collective unconscious force that is the will of the universe. (I am personally against the "will of the universe" if it doesn't care about equality.)
>>17693697
I think that, generally speaking, crafting a rhyme or pun or anything that could be described as a "sigil" is much better than just reposting it, simply because the level of engagement you have with that "sigil" is more involved. You spend more thought on something you create than something you just quickly consume.
You could consume something and equally feel that connection, but you have to be fanatically obsessed with it. You have to be able to look at, say, Game of Thrones, and really passionately love every little detail, want to research what it references, how it's universe works, etc etc. I personally find the Sandman to work wonders for me that way due to how much I resonate with it's cosmology (which in turn pulls from all sorts of myth).
There has to be a sense of weight that a lot of pop culture we consume just doesn't have. Reposting a funny meme/pun/whatever takes mere seconds and will quickly be forgotten. Making one yourself, on the other hand, could last in your memory for years even if it was just a throwaway joke.
So in short; pop magic where you create > pop magic where you consume or share.
>>17694291
It might be personal to you, and maybe powerfully so.
Maybe that's all you need in terms of Grant Morrison >>17693612 style chaos magick, to have your dreams eventually manifest in reality, even in a world with everyone, memes, and popular culture creating "noise" around the manifestation of what YOU want.
The question is, does that kind of spell have the power to affect others. I think that's another question about this whole craft - How you know what is *universally* catchy, instead of just what is personal to yourself?
That's what I want to know.
>>17693961
You are understimating what those youtubers do, they blatantly copy things from others, but the most popular ones have a certain angle or gimmick to make themselves slightly more original than the competition.
Fame is a feat of the body, you devote your body to others in order to gain fame, you can't be famous without exposing to the world some kinds of physical feat, writing and speaking are physical feats by the way.
When you adscribe to a symbolic expression, you resign from a piece of your own identity in order to channel some energy from an external source.
If you are wearing an "make america great again" cap, people will look at you and won't think.
Hey, that guy wants to make america great again.
hey would think, that guy is a Trump supporter.
Same with any expression with an already associated value.
>>17693823
They gain nothing but the equivalent of what you gain by voting. You were there for the ride and meagerly responsible, but the thing already had a will of its own. The meme evolves independent of the memer.
>>17694348
A good sense of humour is one way.
>>17693697
ya know, there's this artist in new york named hanksy, he does graffiti like this, like he'll write dicki minaj and have nicki's ass attached to a veiny ejaculating cock. it's pretty funny, I follow him on instagram.
>>17694625
>>17694671
I just spent a day away from this thread and let me tell you.
This magick is EVERYWHERE! I just took a glance at facebook, youtube, and the news after watching these videos, and their use of symbols, the way they present their messages, is overwhelming for me.
It likes I am resisting being taken by these videos, which involve storytelling.
>>17688592
Reality is recursive simulation. Hyper-conceptualization. The concepts exists outside of conscious observation. Reality is an interdependent, shared illusion. It is malleable. Conscious will can manipulate it. This conscious will is focused and refined through symbol. Ritual is symbolic behavior with an intended goal. More consciousnesses partaking augments the effect. The more neurally synchronized the consciousnesses, individually and with each other, the greater the effect.
Concepts exist prior to being observed. We articulate the concepts that predate our existence or conceptualization of them. The archetypes-as-such. Letters are symbols. Words are symbols. They carry great meaning. Reading and writing them manifests a simulation within the participant. They have been shaped by human thought and behavior since their origin, as well they shape human thought and behavior. The more simplistic, the better collectively defined a symbol is. Multitudes of symbols together create exponentially complex symbols. Letters become words become sentences becomes stories, novels. Language is magick.
2D art is similar. It's language is perhaps less rigidly defined. Though lines have intrinsic meaning for the creator and observer. Shapes, forms, entire pieces. When created and when observed, works of art shape the behavior of consciousness.
Concepts, ideas, are communicated, consciously and subconsciously by the creators. They are passed along, sometimes modified or amended in some way. Memes.
The saturation of the internet and specifically social media gave rise to a hyper-sharing of memes, causing culture to a) become significantly more homogeneous and b) change at near-instant rate.
Right?
>>17688710
>You may be interested in the Norse rune magic system-- the idea with that is that writing is a divine act
That's common to nearly all religions and writing systems. In fact if anything Judaism has even more of a boner for writing is magic.
>>17696159
Maybe this is why graffiti is considered a crime; not as vandalism, but because it's a symbol put up in public where numerous people will see it.
>>17700610
Shepard Fairey creator of the Hope poster, was the base for the Obama campaign, he developed a theory for image repetition with the OBEY poster with the face of Andre the giant.
