>A.'.A.'.>Philosophy
The Devil's Delusion, Brill's Companion to Cicero, How About Demons?, Paranormal Experience and the Survival of Death
>A.'.A.'.>Thelema
Ultimate Guide to the Thoth Tarot
>Babylon
Devils and Demons , The God Dagon in Bronze Age Syria, Sacrifice Tablets of the Worship of Baal, A Gathering of the Gods: The Power of Mesopotamian Worship.
>Chumbley>Cultus Sabbati
Children of Cain, Grimoire of Arthur Gauntlet, and Witch, Warlock, and Magician: Historical Sketches Witchcraft in England and Scotland (Gauntlet and Historical Sketches also appear in Grimoires).
>European
Cult and Koinon in Hellenistic Thessaly
>Eastern
Kali Puja (Internet and Eagle versions, short and long), Yoga Powers (Brill), The Dasanami-Samnyasis
>Eastern>Tibet
Chod in the Bon Tradition, Machig Ladron's Chod, Bonpo: Hidden Treasures, Vajra Wisdom, The Bon Religion of Tibet, Spirit Mediums and Sacred Mountains, Tibetan Songs of Realization, Wonders of the Natural Mind, Contributions to the Early Cultural History of Tibet, Heartdrops of Dharmakaya, Himalayan Tribal Tales & Oral Traditions, Tibetan Manuscripts from Dunhuang.
>staring at checkerboard pattern
>lines start blurring, turning grey
>sweet
>eyes suddenly refocus for no reason
the fuck man
Shit, forgot links:
Temple of Solomon the King:
https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ
Mesmer's Lair (hypnosis, hypnotherapy, some neuropsych, brainwashing resources):
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwLJ8mj-ZuoGc0NKUEtoLTBmQXc
>>17368596
>Eastern>Vajrayana
Consecration of Images and Stupas in Indo-Tibetan Tantric Buddhism
>Gnostic Studies
Early Egyptian Christianity,
>Grimoires
Magic Circles in the Grimoire Tradition, Jake Stratton Kent's Testamant of Cyprian the Mage vols. 1 & 2, Enchridion of Pope Leo II, Magic and Divination in Islam, The Language of Demons and Agippa's Occult Philosophy,
>Kabbalah
Studies on Astral Magic in Early Jewish Thought
>Voodoo/African
Pomba Gria (Maria Padiha), Ritual Voodoo Diagrams, Hoodoo Rootwork Correspondence Course (questionable), Complete Ngana Formulary
>>17368612
We're you the one who posted the mega links the other day on the Chaos Gods thread?
>>17368753
Nope. I tend to stay in my own threads.
>>17368596
Doy ou have SOMETHING about early irish cristianity? like the rituals the made, etc? i can't find anything
>>17368826
the fairy faith in celtic countries by evans wentz
>>17368834
but that is christian? if so, thanks
>>17368753
If you're asking about the guy who claimed to be posting links to carrol and hine who was actually posting links to pictures of cabbage, that was me.
Student of philosophy here. Love these threads. Thanks Ape for all the hard work you've put into finding and organizing these files.
Anyway, I'm wondering how does one make the transition from study to practice? I feel like I'm always thirsting after the next revelation, going from book to book, scouring historical texts hoping to discover a "pure" form of magic that will be both authentic and free of antiquated theological tumours.
I was into chaos magick for a while because it seemed so stripped down and understandable but after a while I began feel like sigils are just kinda petty egotistical low sorcery as opposed to high magic and mysticism. What I seek is elevated consciousness. I've tried therapy, I've tried pills, but there is a longing for the metaphysical in my heart whose thirst can only be slaked by my own experience.
I guess the answer is to meditate more? I would like to be able to reach what is called a "flow state", where I perform at peak efficiency and rid myself of my incessant, oft times negative or even nonsensical, internal monologue.
I have never been able to meditate regularly. I feel like my posture is messed up. I feel like my legs are uncomfortable. I can't do a full lotus or a half lotus. I get bored. I start thinking about not thinking and feel bad for being unable to do what is seemingly the easiest thing in the world to do.
I was thinking about maybe getting a meditation pillow and working my way up from five minutes every morning? How long will it take to see results?
In the meantime, I guess I will smoke weed so as to feel more content. Which, speaking of, that's another thing I'd like to confront... Is there any occult remedies for addiction? I've heard of the AA connection to Carl Jung but perhaps I am just too much of a free-wheeling bon vivant to fully repress my desires because of some supposed transcendental moral code. Perhaps Surgo has a hypnotic option available.
>>17368776
Here are the ones posted the other day:
https://mega.nz/#F!6kJzEIJb!aVVgmWAM-aP_bU_8Co43FA
https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ
https://mega.nz/#F!hQVFBDbT!f3gOa3LUAHJXJJbFZfDytg!9Z9WkTSB
>>17368849
I didn't see that but that's pretty damn funny.
>>17368867
Read the bhagavatam and chant Hare Krsna
>>17368915
>Vaishnavu
>When will they ever learn?
>>17368596
where do I start in occultism/magick?
any links?
>>17368942
This. People always point to Regardie and shit, but the archaic language he uses just makes me even more confused. I just want a solid beginner's guide written in modern English.
>>17368957
Everything after Shakespeare is modern English. If you can't parse Regardie there's no way in hell you can parse the people who informed him, or most other core religious texts.
>>17368934
>Implying Lord Shiva isn't the greatest devotee of Vishnu
>>17368957
I could of sworn there was a beginners guide, I suppose OP doesn't have it
>>17368934
Also, even if you are not a Krsna Bhakta, you shouldn't disregard the entire Bhagavatam.
>>17368979
There's a whole folder's worth of beginner's material in the mega.
>>17368985
>the Krishnite is back to proselytize
>again
Dude, get fucked.
I dream of a fair boy on occasion. He's very sweet but I only trust him as far as I could throw him, which is further than you would think. He is very slight. Normally we just chill and talk in riddles or poetry.
Is there anything I should do with this? I'm at a loss and don't want to upset our relationship.
>>17368968
I wouldn't mind reading Regardie once I had a solid foundation of esoteric knowledge, I'm talking strictly about a beginner's guide to magick.
I know very well the division of Old/Middle/Modern English. When I say "modern English" (with a lower case m, mind you) I mean English that is spoken in the last 50 years or so. Stop being a pretentious ass and just help us out.
Get a traditional Satanism folder, you faggot
>>17368867
This is the most succent wisdom on the subject I have found to date. It worked for me where nothing else did. You will never reach the critical mass of superficial knowledge you desire to transcend and thus practice is the only option. Except for that one monk, but you aren't him and the point of that story was that his way is shit. Here it is. Should you not find it the most powerful method, you may wish to reexamine whether or not you are actually following it.
https://youtu.be/ZXsQAXx_ao0
A good pillow helps, but so does doing basic hatha yoga for a few weeks and sucking it up.
>>17369002
Define 'traditional'. Most traditional magick, demonic or otherwise, is covered in the Grimoires folder.
>>17369001
What Regardie did you read and what problems did you have? Even then I'm very serious about not being able to parse core material if you can't into Regardie...how are you going to approach something as dense as Tantraloka or Hevajra Tantra or Chaldean Oracles if you can't into Regardie?
There's a 'dictionary of gnosticism and the occult' or something like that in the beginner's folder. That should be helpful for providing very basic frames of reference.
>>17369054
ONA seven fold way, ToB, etc
>>17369026
^Best post ITT.
>>17369056
Those guys are in the LHP folder along with Temple of Set. Don't like ToB, liked THEM better, the library reflects this but I should probably dig out their texts for completeness' sake.
>>17369068
Have you read Iron Gates by ToB? It's much better than some of their earlier material. Night of Satan is pretty dark as well
>>17369061
Somewhere between death, passage though the underworld with a hangover that shouldn't have been, and reemerging in paradise to spend a week with a baby my friend made, all the years of sutras and discourses, parables and koans made sense. Something about butter softening leather but the leather pouch it's held in being hard as a rock.
Now help me out here if you can. >>17368998
There is a lonely boy who speaks in truth and lies and needs compassion, but I've never been one to have trust or faith in much of anything. I don't want to set myself up for shit I can't handle but riding the tiger is the only way to tire it out and get anything done.
>>17369026
>>17369061
Lol. Your video of occult wisdom has broken through the walls of my ego. I will try my best to start a daily meditation practice starting tomorrow morning. Thank you.
>>17368605
>my eyes
>>17369098
Yesterday you said tomorrow.
>>17369054
I've read The Tree of Life by Regardie and while it isn't too, too hard to read, it seems that he is writing in a faux elegant style in order to sound more mysterious, much like Manly P Hall and others. I believe this detracts from the overall potency of the message he is trying to get through. I want something that is just a basic, solid beginner's manual to magick without all the mystery. I actually think chaos magick would be a good place to start acclimating to magickal terms and ideas. Then I can graduate on to more detailed and intricate texts. I just don't want to start off as a beginner reading those. That's all I'm saying. Is there any good beginner's guide to chaos magick?
>>17369096
Don't push it directly.
Work some evokation toward...something, HGA, Face, Atman, etc., and see what if anything changes.
>>17369098
I never thought I'd see that Shia vid posted alongside valid points, but these are very strange days.
>>17369107
You're just used to post-post-modern tone and style. I never understood the 'faux elegant' criticism because the shit really does read clear as day for me.
Sure, Liber Null/Psychonaut or Liber Kaos. I'm partial to the latter.
>>17369114
Thanks man. Didn't mean to come off as rude or anything. I have just been trying to find a good beginner's guide for a couple of years know.
>>17369121
*now.
>>17369114
The language is a bitch because unlike Indian philosophy, none of the terms are precise or properly descriptive. It's all metaphors of metaphors and it's left to the reader to figure out what the thing itself is that they represent. Even regardie reads like chumbley she you don't already know what the fuck he is trying to say. It's like stepping into a class on comparative linguistics or analytic philosophy. None of the words mean what they normally do, assuming you recognize them at all. Hence the importance of a guru and a community. Self study is a bitch.
>>17369145
QBL then?
>>17369145
>unlike Indian philosophy, none of the terms are precise or properly descriptive
I won't begrudge you that opinion, because it's right.
The only thing I can say is that while I ain't ya'lls guru, I can at least be a part of that whole 'community' thing and offer what perspectives I have. 80% of what I can even say boils down to "shut up and study/shut up and practice" at various intervals.
>>17368987
will look into that then, my bad anon
>>17369101
Fine. Just for the hell of it I did five minutes now. I was just trying not to start a daily routine at night cause I often go out at night.
>>17369145
I'd beg to differ. English is an amazingly descriptive language and one of the most important languages for learning science and philosophy because of its wide vocabulary and numerous important texts.
>>17369166
And that is the problem. The language is not universal. It's the downfall of buddhism in the West, there is no 'official' translation of any term and the same concept is described very differently in western occultism depending on the author and lineage. This can be a boon for it can touch more minds and give more dimensions, but is some bullshit when it comes to making shit make sense if you didn't live the life of the author and read everything he has. Half of esoterica makes no sense to me because I have never been a christian and share none of the conceptualizations of anything up to and including god itself, which is the most loaded of terms. In fact, the greatest flaw is that all the language is loaded and only means what it should if you already know what it means. Ask someone what karma is, or a skeptic or a cynic and you will most likely get bullshit that has nothing to do with its actual meaning either historically or in the practice of those that it is ascribed to or used by.
We know what philosophical and scientific terms mean because they are used consistently and precisely. Any foible of esoterica is either used seven completely different ways or has seven different words used interchangeably without explanation. The authors have missed that communication is entirely in the reception and what they may know and know something to mean is irrelevant if it isn't conveyed that way.
>>17369068
How do you feel about TotBL/MLO material? I can contribute if you're interested. I have Liber Azerate in a rough English translation, Liber Falxifer 1 & 2, and The Book of Sitra Achra. Plus some other random stuff from their old website.
Anyone awake?
Philosophically speaking, how do you bridge the gap between eastern and western metaphysics? Or do you remain agnostic? Moreover, is it just me or is Greek thought quasi-Buddhistic? I once heard occultism and tantra described as a re-weaving and active engagement with illusion as opposed to transcendence? Does that mean I should avoid occultism and tantra as kinda meaningless siddhis on the path to enlightenment? Knowing "truth" and how to respond in every situation seems more important than say talking to devils or angels.
Maybe I should get back to meditating.
Decided to namefag for shits and gigs if anyone wants to talk.
>>17369208
Stupid made up shit
>>17369201
I think that if you stick with reputable academic sources then you will find a certain consistency not found in popular books.
>>17369232
Any material power or siddhi is temporary and useless. Our real, blissful nature is uncovered when we realize the nature of ourselves in relation to Krsna, the original form of Godhead. That said, if you approach him with a material desire, he will fulfill it (such as the great devotee, Dhruva Maharaja) and also award you the shelter of his lotus feet.
>>17369245
>Stupid made up shit
Explain. I'm kinda interested tbqh senpai
>>17369061
So that's you? I'm not convinced your interests intend enlightenment, it wasn't in God's plan.
>>17369265
Idk. I always identified more with jnana yoga than bhakti yoga. Hence I find more appeal in the Upanishads than the Baghavad Gita. If I wanted a personal God I would have stuck with Christianity. But I get your message, man.
>>17369266
Edgy Hot Topic Tier Satanic Kabbalah and stuff.
>>17369266
Their whole mythos based on the idea of destroying the cosmos is a very new thing. For example, even real icons of dissolution such as Kala Bhairava only act as one feature in an ongoing recurring cycle. There is no genuine tradition based on destroying the cosmos permanently. Their concocted mythos about Satan and the "anti cosmic gods" is also totally disingenuous.
>>17369232
>how do you bridge the gap between eastern and western metaphysics
Get gud with Crowley. Add some Abhinavagupta and Tibetan Vajrayana initiation then hit up Chumbley. Apply to the level of your attainment.
That's been my route, at least.
>Quasi-Buddhist
You ain't the only one. Conversely, we could say that middle Vedic religious though was quasi-Hellenic.
>reweaving and engagement.
Yes, that's a kinda inner teaching and the reason for the blood, sex, wine, and dope. Shiva forge the fabric of reality from Maya. We seek to be like Shiva. Therefore....
>siddhis
Your choice how you interact with these. And if you're talking to angels, are you not learning also, by proxy, how to speak with others far beyond your station. Live some Buddha, such as Machig Ladron?
Yeah, you should probably get back to yoga/meditation. Your answers will become clear. Remember, Hindi, Buddhist, and Bon scriptures all more or less say the others will get you enlightened. Early Vajrayana tantras will tell you Saivism and even some Vedic material's just as good and it don't matter how you get there, just that you get going.
>>17369285
>>17369287
While I agree that it is a bit too edgy for my tastes, isn't it essentially Gnosticism with evil sounding names ascribed to concepts and forces already in regular Gnosticism?
I wouldn't exactly say that it's made up seeing as they base most of their cosmology on Nathan of Gaza's writings and teachings as well as standard qabbalistic beliefs. Isn't their destruction of cosmos and return to AIN just another way of describing the absorption of the soul into Brahman?
>>17369313
Their whole concept of klipot is waaaay off base from either traditional or contemporary Hebrew mysticism. These aren't hell sephira where the demons live, they're habits that inhibit attainment to be busted and transcended. They leave out half the qualifying adjectives that make that part of Kabbalah actually interesting, imo.
This is why I liked THEM's grimoire approach better.
>>17369302
What elements of Eastern mysticism did Crowley incorporate? From some of the texts I read, seemed to only be pranayama and asana
>>17369327
It would make sense you like THEM, because it's all meaningless bullshit
>>17369331
Kaula, lots of it.
Past introductory material he's rather conversant with the rest of Yoga (Dharana, Dhyana, grades of Samadhi), and I mean he spent time living with Alan Bennet in India translating Saivist material as shown in my Warburg files.
>>17369302
Yeah. I love Crowley. He's written so much and I've barely dipped my toes into the initiatic waters of his corpus. Chumbley is great too. Right now I'm reading Mysticism, Initiation, And Dream by Chumbley and planning on moving to the Opuscula Magica 1 +2 next. E-readers are the best.
I just feel really anxious and discontent lately because I dropped out of college recently because I had a breakdown about not really being smart / dedicated enough or having good enough grades to get into grad school / become a professor as a philosophy major which was what I told my parents I was doing when I went in to college.
>>17369327
Is THEM's grimoire in the Mega link?
>>17369336
Here's your (You).
>>17369336
What's THEM?
>>17369353
>What's THEM?
An ONA spinoff by some faggot named Ryan anschauung. Also tried to cash in material he stole from the Tempel ov Blood
>>17368605
Now I see a checker board where I shouldn't see one. What the fuck have you done?
>>17369358
Did he fuck your girlfriend or something? Why's he a faggot? Don't you have to be a faggot to join ONA?
>>17369373
Not taking sides here, but fucking his girlfriend definitely wouldn't be grounds for calling him a faggot.
>>17369380
>>17369373
He's a businessman and nothing more. Look at all the overpriced shit he's selling on ebay
>>17369399
This is kinda true. The same with EA Koetting. Just another materialistic scam artist he is.
>>17369399
Frankly, when it comes to O9A splinter groups, that more or less sounds like a 'pot calling the kettle' kinda gripe.
>>17369407
> For just $299.99, the Powers of Satan can be yours!
>>17369407
Why are you trying to read overpriced edgy shit when there's a whole library of brilliant occult texts of the past ages for free?
>>17369422
I'm not trying to read it, that's why I was making fun of it bro.
>>17369441
Then what's it matter? Scammers gonna scam. Fools gonna get fooled. Meanwhile, I pursue my own path. And I am both a fool and a scammer. Aren't we all?
Hi thread how do you tell what the voice in your head is, is there a test
>>17369539
If you can't banish it then you might wanna go to the looney bin for a spin.
>>17369580
I worshiped her for a while and then when I stopped she went away, but the night she did she revealed secrets to me, spoke words of praise and sang me a lullaby. She may also be the same entity from a series of four dreams I had in which I saw things from her perspective.
>>17369588
Schizophrenia is like this:
http://youtu.be/yGTXnxFj414
>>17369599
I mean, I'm diagnosed psychotic, but that's not an explanation. Magick seems like it has things that are explanatory, as does psychoanalysis. Basically my working hypothesis right now is that she's my shadow, and I'm going to keep saying that (and the magical equivalent) unless someone convincingly rebukes me.
>>17368968
>>17368957
Yeah, if you're really interested and have no other source for the material you should be able to understand Regardie just fine, but his prose is insufferable. Alan Chapman Is good for very basic beginner stuff and has a useful reading list in the back of his beginner book. Eventually though, you're probably going to have to hack your way through works that are challenging or not to your taste.
>>17369232
>quasi-Buddhistic
There may have been some cultural interactin that accounts for that in part. Some people have posited that the cynics in asia minor and through them the later stoics and neo-platonists where influenced by buddhist missionaries. Buddhism, in turn was definitely influenced by the hellenic successor kingdoms Alexander left in his wake.
>>17369608
Me too. Idk. I once saw a lady. Not in a dream but real life. I'm not sure if she was my shadow or not. But she entranced me with words and disappeared. Part of why I originally went off the deep end.
>>17369145
The language is only a problem for you because of the stigma you hold against things which, intentionally or not, sound like they're attempting to be eloquent.
Now if you sit down to read the Sefer Yetzirah without first reading Isaac Luria, you might be a little flabbergasted. However, if you refuse to understand Dr. Seuss because The Berenstain Bears seems less pretentious to you, then you're a little faggot who needs to be sitting at his desk in Kindergarten, not trolling the hallways at your local community college arguing with people you think look the opposite of whatever political extreme you prescribe to.
This argument always gets me.
>>17369677
Thanks for that Alan Chapman recommendation. Just downloaded a pdf of it.
>>17369715
It's Berenstein, not Berenstain :P
I wanna know about the relation of statues and magick/occultism. And what's the meaning of the black cape? Why sometimes magicians are portrayed wearing this?
>>17368612
reposting question from last thread:
>Hoodoo Rootwork Correspondence Course (questionable)
Why questionable? Curious for your very well read opinion.
>>17368596
One major heart attack later I would like to restate that the enochian powers are still dicks.
Bumparino.
>>17369830
I don't really trust anything that was released behind the paywall of a correspondence course. That's not to say the text may not be legit in some sense, or these operations didn't work for the author, but it's just a point against the book.
If anyone who knows more about Afro-Carib mysticism than I do can give me some reasons why I should just delete it or move it to 'misc.', then please voice your concerns.
>>17369419
He should be charging $666.
>>17370502
I thought Koetting pulled that a few times, though.
>>17368596
Question for Thoth -
The legend says that Solomon wasn't exceptional simply because he could bind demons to his service, but because he could bind angels also. Crowley provides a useful translation of the Goetia, which supposedly contains the names and rituals for summoning Solomon's seventy two demons, but what about the angels. Where are the rituals and names for summoning them?
>>17369715
That's not why the language is a problem. There's a fundamental cultural difference. If you live in the world of and speak the language of science, one speaking of the Moon and the trees to describe the same concept is unintelligible. I doubt you speak fluently in dactylogisms as the deaf community does, but we all sure as fuck can hand jive some memes.
I'm saying that it is an issue of background. The symbol of the cat is not universal, nor are the concordances made with it. They very often conflict. The language of flowers means nothing to me because I'm not a Victorian housewife. My herb lore is not yours.
I hold no stigma, I just lack the background certain authors have. I have my own and relating what I know and know to what they are trying to express is troublesome because we do not speak the same language or come from the same culture. Your heart is my storehouse consciousness. Your angels and demons are my subroutines and dæmons. Alternate dimensions are models applied. Often the divide is so great as to be almost unintelligibily different.
Learning things you already know because the author only has his own way of describing it and no concordance to anything outside of it, where his concordances that he does express are in no way your own, it is tiring. Little of this shit made sense to me until I read Crowley and he St least attempted to join East and West, and I still had to trudge through all the silly astrology that has no relation to this century or the culture I come from.
This sociolinguistic divide always gets me.
What did crowley think about smoking weed?
Did he 420 blaze it occasionally?
>>17370960
http://hermetic.com/crowley/equinox/i/i/eqi01015.html
>>17370737
Ars Paulina.
have any y'all seen Hail Caesar? I think it was an attempted (tongue in cheek?) dramatic ritual apotheosis by the Coen Bros. There's no public record as far as i know of them being interested in occultism, aside from references to kabbalah in A Serious Man. I was once told that The Big Lebowski was a grail myth but i'll admit that didn't come to my mind when I was watching it.
>>17370975
Nice pic
>>17370799
I've never actually sat down and read a terrible, evil "traditional" occult book that used crazy terminology to describe things. Most of the time, it's just a matter of reading comprehension and whether you have the drive to finish a book that doesn't pique your interests or not.
Aside from that, people on this board do use the linguistic barrier as an excuse to call people pretentious, so they can invalidate the arguments being applied by attacking the ability of the debate-ee to communicate them, even if he's communicating properly.
>>17371598
Yeah, but in the case of Regardie and especially in Tree of Life his style really is affected in a way I find off-putting. Not that it should stop any reasonable person from reading and understanding him if they think he has something worthwhile to say.
>>17370412
>paywall of a correspondence course
I understand the concern, to be fair, all of these books (or most) are behind the "paywall" of purchase. The correspondence course is an extra level of training and interaction. It's become common in the rootwork and hoodoo communities to charge for services. This is good and bad for a variety of reasons, I dont necessarily condone it, but neither do I condemn it.
As for the actual contents, its pretty solid. It includes recipes and concepts which are generally guarded by rootworkers and hoodoo practitioners and for that reason alone I think its good to leave it up.
As for whether it belongs in the africa/voodoo section is a different topic but since theres no more appropriate place, I say leave it.
>>17371732
Regardie is fine, just remember his reputation as some kind of Golden Dawn guru is unjustified - he was just the first person writing about it in any great detail (from totally shit versions of the texts, I might add). His books on basic qabalah are breddy good though.
And I completely agree about the pretentiousness. Sort of understandable at the time, but in the case of other authors (COUGHchumbleyCOUGH) it's less excusable, though to each their own, I guess
>>17372023
>Regardie was the first
>What is AC's Temple of Solomon the King in the Equinox vol. 1?
Some bones finally budged out of customs. Going to dose with psychs here in a while and work ST/contemplative practices.
The stone need not be meteorite; you can use any stone symbolizing the fall of the heavens to earth. Fulgurite is about half the cost of good meteorite.
>>17372030
The first to openly publish shit properly then, as I recall AC fudged his published versions a bit.
I'll be taking a look over the weekend, I reckon the various new age shops here will be able to supply something suitable
Must read Cochrane's letters again over the weekend as well - I get the feeling Other AC may have started with a Cochranite base and then mapped all the various gnostic/iranian/thelemic/grant shit onto that, but I'll test that theory as I go, it could be completely the other way around.
http://congregalupino.blogspot.ie/2013/08/ritual-de-lilith.html
Start the van, we've got someone portuguese people using shit from DBoE.
Seems to be a weird amount of brazilians doing Chumbley shit, actually. I wonder if they have any dudes down that way
>>17372060
I get the suspicion this is a hard tapestry to pick to threads without the individual strands breaking. Like I said last thread I can't tell in some spots where the Afro-Carib shit ends and the Tantra starts. Rosaries are a good example of this.
Got your email, expect something resembling a reply tomorrow.
He very well could have gotten a start in Cochrane, but I think by the time Azoetia was put together everything else had already subsumed it. I wonder what his actual entry into magick was.
>>17369353
A "satanic" cross between Michael Bertiaux and Carlos Casteneda. The next step up when babby gets tired of playing with the Simonomicon.
Posting this because you guys might like it.
It's a transcript of Marjorie Cameron's conversation with her Holy Guardian Angel featured in a short called "The Wormwood Star" by Curtis Harrington.
If nothing else it's a wonderful peace of poetry. I found other transcripts online but they all had one error or another.
The Wormwood Star: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlmQxOw__yk
Seven times I rap upon the mighty door of the subterranean vault.
Open! Open!
I stand without in the drafty and dank corridor that aproaches thy lair.
Seven times resound my summons on the stony door, in the dead stern caves, and curse the midnight hour.
Come thou forth!
I bare a lamp for the terrible darkness, thou shall behold that face known in dreams.
Mine eyes are terrible and strange but thou knownest me.
Behold!
My garments are of rich cloth and I bear the air of a land of bounty beyond the sea.
Come forth!
Thou art as a shadow of the light I bear and thy garments reek of the dead and the sunless place.
We shall ascend the stair that is fraught with unwholesome things.
The stone rolls before me and into the blazing vault of the night of nigths We go forth as Light.
Dark star I seek you in all the endless rooms of the Universe.
I have entered the maze of chaos and have searched the promises no-end and no-fulfilment.
But I have seen your helmeted head flashing gold from all the bloody triumphant sunsets of the world.
I have heard your voice singing lonely songs of desire in the whirlwind.
I remember the artistry of fingers that held the rose in wonder.
Your musical throat sounding the hymn of love seeking since the birth and the crashing star nebulae.
Singing limbs of muscle and starfoam, pursued and pursuing,
radiant warrior how long ...
Beloved god how long...
How long, how long...
-Marjorie Cameron
>>17369715
>>17369735
You're both wrong.
>>17369232
>I once heard occultism and tantra described as a re-weaving and active engagement with illusion as opposed to transcendence?
In tantra, there's no illusion. Everything's divine, everything's enlightened; the only reason you don't see it is because of delusional perception that must be corrected.
All the different mandalas are just a way of symbolically mapping the divine energy of the universe that streams from the God or Goddess of the centre and differentiates more and more as it reaches the edges. If the Tree of Life is the Western tool, then the different mandalas are the Eastern.
And all the antinomian practices are just powerful techniques to make you realize the absolute divinity of your environment. Can you see heaps of rotting meat or dead bodies, swollen, green, maggot ridden, and perceive it as divine? Can you walk amongst your local black or slav or whatever neighbourhood after dark and see every person - whores, homeless people, druggies, criminals - as manifestation of the Pure Godhead and feel compassion that they are what they are because of the ignorance of this truth? This is what tantra is about.
However you must understand that many of tantric transgression is culture based. For a Hindu man, even in out progressive age, the idea of consuming female sexual fluids, let alone her menstrual blood, brings the same feelings as for the Western the idea of swimming in sewage. Everything related to death was always an absolute taboo. The outcastes (candala) are basically people who make their living performing funerary ceremonies. To touch them is to become polluted. Imagine the most disgusting thing in the world and imagine having to touch. That's how an Hindu feels about an outcaste.
>>17372404
Women are regarded as polluted by birth, so contact with them was always considered a gamble (Hence such idolization of abstinence and celibacy).
What tantrikas did involved taking the most disgusting, polluted things and places and making them divine. It was a shock for your average Hindu or Buddhist.
So, if some Western person feel like playing with bones or drinking sperm and menstrual blood because it sounds cool, then you're probably dealing with an edgelord and not a real practitioner, because the point is to confront what is fearful, disgusting, loathsome, something that you wouldn't want to touch even if you were offered a large sum of money, and see it as an aspect of the divine.
Tantrikas don't wear human bones, drink from skullcaps, sit in charnel grounds, and eat sexual excretions because of playing with illusion. They do it from the viewpoint that to view such things as godless, dirty, impure is the illusion. If everything is God, then these things must also be God. The transcendent isn't in the sky, or in the mind, or in the astral realm, or wherever else you imagine it. It's right here and right now.
And not all tantric systems involve wine and women as means. You can use devotion, visualization, mantra recitation, and arrive to the supreme realization. In fact, the mahamudra adn dzogchen instruction, considered as the best methods in Vajrayana, explain the basic mindfulness technique (Tilopas's six words of advice.) You can be a tantrika, and excel at it, without the hardcore stuff.
how cum lumnartey can grate work
butt no me ?
i wan to sum great werk tooo
suk mi duk iloominatee
>>17372404
>. Everything's divine, everything's enlightened
This understanding is limited. It will not reveal the Supreme Personality of Godhead and his relationship with the living entity.
>>17372526
It is the lightning vehicle. No path is best, but it is one of the fastest. Not that it matters as all are discarded in the end.
There isn't a single American pop artist from the 60s/70's who wasn't an occultist. Not a single one.
Is that telling?
Or isn't it?
>>17372836
Proper occultists and spiritualists in general, artists especially, tend to have a sublime sense of humor to go with the vast body of knowledge that informs their work. Never trust anyone, especially any guru, who won't crack a fart and make a joke about it. Jokes are like yachts for the immaterialist.
So much talk about the language of it all but no real arguments why you should you should not learn the jargon.
A case for.
I don't think it comes as a great shock to anyone reading this that those who enjoy our hobby are few number. And even fewer are those who devote real adoration and study to the art.
I also don't think that it comes as a surprise the the experiences brought about by practice are highly peculiar and deeply personal. In many cases they are strange enough where your personal lexicon will come up lacking when attempting to describe them. Vague hand waving about unspecified energies and states of relaxation being about as useful for conducting information as a block of wood is for conducting electricity. No matter how much you attempt to pour down one end all you'll be left with at the finish is vague smelling of burning and a scarred and empty receptacle at the other end.
When it comes to regardie, crowley, mathers, hall, and so many other of the last generations of explorers, it is not in question that they possess information you may find valuable. They are people who devoted themselves extensively to ethereal trails you now hike down. Even if you disagree with their actions and their beliefs they have still left information for you, and the only way you can make use of that information, to leap frog upon their advancement instead of attempting to rebuild the wheel every twenty years, is to learn the language they are attempting to communicate to you in.
>>17372079
>Like I said last thread I can't tell in some spots where the Afro-Carib shit ends and the Tantra starts.
I would think that would be more obvious, their philosophies and approaches are very different in my experience, do you have any examples of this?
>>17372030
>Fulgurite is about half the cost of good meteorite.
And much less likely to be fake.
>>17373957
>your all fuckin stupid
I grinned.
>>17373957
mfw this faggots actually correct
>>17372526
He thinks Vaishnavas are free from tantra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaishnava-Sahajiya
http://www.amazon.com/The-Place-Hidden-Moon-Vaisnava-Sahajiya/dp/0226152375
The author of the book actually proves that Shri Caitanya was probably a Vaishnava tantrika rather than pure Vaishnava.
>>17373919
IMCA associated dealers are accredited by external review. It really ain't that hard to find good meteorite.
>>17373565
According to Palochan, at least I think that's who it was, she'd mentioned a devotional rosary DBoE describes as being an almost perfect mirror of ... Pomba? I know there's some Afro-Carib stuff in the text, but I'd been mostly under the impression the rosaries were way more tied to Buddhist methods, given the numbers and materials.
Another example would be the skull. Early on it's kind of a talisman type thing ala Afro-Carib practice, before it goes full blown Vajrayana a few months into the text.
All that said, Hindu tantra can come close to voodoo in bits and pieces, especially in groups that lean on evokatory methods.
IJS Chumbley appears to have done a good job of hiding the seams in this work.
>>17370975
>Ars Paulina.
Which section of the mega link can I find that in?
>>17374586
It's in every edition of Lemegeton, almost, and certainly in Henson's Lemegeton under:
>Grimoires>Solomon
Also, Peterson: http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/paulina.htm
So, I keep abstaining from substances and the like, and I have been thinking about that Invisibles page, where the Greys put a magic stone inside the boys head, and activate his [ajna chakra]. That’s roughly the same spot where Sadhguru is saying to keep a focus during the meditation. Interesting how it all comes together in synchronicities like that. Where can I read up more on [ajna chakra]? Would it help if I focus on it when I’m IAOing through some entheogens?
I really wish I had a guru for this, it’s all turning into such a mess and it’s way harder to commit because of it.
>print out new Gnostic stuff cause I’m supposed to be one
>haven’t touched it in weeks
PKD, lend me your strength, if I don’t commit to this I might just be another bluepilled automaton animated by rote and interested in videogames and comic book movies.
>>17374599
The issue becomes each subtradition having it's own take on chakras, and sometimes even individual texts within traditions will differ.
Find a group you aspire to, track down their core informing texts, and apply those.
>>17368612
who's translation of the hermetica is in the library?
>>17374599
You are asking for intuition. "Where can I read up on intuition?"
It's silly, because if you do the exercise, you'll understand.
Also try to eat only indian food too, if you can, for like a month. The spices are conducive to harmony and meditation. The spices are actually entheogens. Turmeric is the Ganesa, Effort is the pepper, and wisdom is the complete dish. It's why they advocate vegetarianism. It downregulates your brains maoi and allows your internal DMT to go forth. But if you eat lots of meat and old food, your body needs the maoi to stay alive.
Sausages don't get eaten with high doses of any Maoi, because they are entheogens too. Seriously, the Druids believed that eating pork increased the magic. For good and bad simultaneously.
You add Hot peppers to food, in order to ease internal pain and stimulate bloodflow. Just like the Aztecs in sacrifice. You eat chocolate to stimulate bloodflow and connect to ancestors(bodily forces) for purposes of soothing or holidays, or pleasure. Just as the aztecs.
I'm saying , that you need to find something that works. Meat and magic CAN work together, but it needs to be fresher than you'd find at a grocery store. Otherwise it is partially decaying, and making your brain protect itself a BIT more than usual.
Hindu diet though, I swear if you eat rice and lentils in ghee, with turmeric and black pepper, with green tea, you will be able to do yoga better. It opens your energy channels, but doing this is unsafe with meat diet. Eggs are fine though(not ethically) Milk is fine, Live yogurt is fine, but dead yogurt isn't. A weekly chicken meal won't hinder you, unless it's gratuitous and in mechanically separated nugget/patty/strip/dinosaur form. Eat like a curry-eater though, and you'll age like one.
You haven't been abstaining from all substances, become reverent of all the lil-chems that you are made of and consume for pleasure.
>>17374576
>Another example would be the skull. Early on it's kind of a talisman type thing ala Afro-Carib practice, before it goes full blown Vajrayana a few months into the text.
I would like examples, along with sources, about the similarities between Afro Carribean and Vajrayana practices. I fail to see them.
>All that said, Hindu tantra can come close to voodoo in bits and pieces, especially in groups that lean on evokatory methods.
The same.
>>17374655
As in Corpus Hermeticum? Fuck, I don't even know anymore. There's a good chance it's an older one like Sacred Text's.
>>17374666
>666
There's a lot here I object to, but:
>eat rice and lentils in ghee, with turmeric and black pepper, with green tea, you will be able to do yoga better
Trufax.
>become reverent of all the lil-chems
^That too.
>>17374666
I hear you. Alcohol and weed were easy as fuck. The hardest are the smokes (though today is the tipping day) and fapping.
>>17374677
>I would like examples, along with sources, about the similarities between Afro Carribean and Vajrayana practices. I fail to see them.
I don't think that's exactly the claim that I made, rather that the use of both of them in Dragon Book of Essex is kinda seamless and I have a hard time telling where one influence on mode of practice ends and another influence on mode of practice starts.
>The same [sources]
Retinue of spirits in Kaula, particularly things like the Matrika and their notably ecstatic methods of evokation, and it's certainly not an implication of a one-to-one transmission of ideas, rather it's simply one of the basic structures of evokation. The point remains I see a lot more 'building up' of 'ecstatic energy' in Kaula than I do in some other contemporary tantrik modes, so much so it almost seems like West African masquerade.
These are simply my thoughts, pardon if I caused confusion.
>>17371297
>Lebowski
don't know if this was a joke or schizophrenia
http://dudespaper.com/tarot-yes-mr-lebowski-the-big-lebowski-kabbalah-and-tarot.html/
but props to the madman for putting in work
>>17368995
>pic
Through tantric practice one kills the ego and release his "soul", while the egoistical fgts are like dogs eating themselves or some shit like that?
>>17368867
Your problem is that you believe that this masochistic belief will "transcend" you to something better. You need to understand that you are your own god. That your emotions are what channel the energy you are searching for. If you spend your time meditating and depriving yourself then the only thing you are doing is delivering to yourself punishment. The only thing that should be practiced is the betterment of your self and the flesh. No religion, false idol, or masochistic activities will take you anywhere. Only you will.
>>17373548
I was the one making the argument that there is a divide but agree that leaning the jargon is valuable for expanding ones models. The problem is learning their entire background of knowledge which isn't a bad thing, just time consuming and boring as fuck. That is my only problem. I want clear instructions.
It isn't rebuilding the wheel as much as finding the aesthetic that speaks the most to you. You have to learn theirs to learn your own but it isn't intuitive as it could be if they weren't all up their own aesthetic asses.
>>17375401
>finding the aesthetic that speaks the most to you
>>17375414
you got shit tastte senpai
>superior aesthetic
>>17375430
>>17375462
Hey I like black girls too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVRr5ud2gdU
I stopped locking all my feels down and now everything is extreme as shit. Feels pretty right but I don't want to lose my job before I find one that's looking for a human being and not a machine. I have the entire western cannon of psychology and philosophy in my head, a tonge that cuts like a razor and more triggers to use it than I can extinguish in a month. Wat do?
>>17375740
Nice.
>>17369232
See pic.
See also Shape of Ancient Thought by McEvilley
>>17375740
Hi again Thoth. I'm the guy that sent that zip of Vajrayana material some months back. It seems you've warmed up some to Vajrayana. Your dedication to these threads is impressive.
Anyone here into Fernando Pessoa? He's a Portugese poet who had considerable correspondence with Crowley. Will post some stuff about him in a reply.
>>17376052
Book of Disquiet is beautiful.
>>17376052
...
Yet for several years these two very different men kept up an extensive correspondence that is now at the centre of a potentially explosive literary controversy. The Portuguese government is deciding whether to step in to prevent an auction of more than 2,000 pages of documents kept by Pessoa, an official source in Lisbon confirmed. The documents include 800 pages of letters and other papers relating to Pessoa's friendship with Crowley.
Keith Bosley, who has translated his poems into English, describes Pessoa as an 'intensely private man'. He was also, in his own words, a 'superior degenerate' - and someone who was fascinated by the occult. Portugal' s greatest modernist poet was also a keen astrologer. He first made contact with Crowley - alias 'The Beast 666' - after noting what he believed were errors in the Englishman's horoscope, published in his Confessions
As the friendship between the two men developed, Pessoa translated his 'Hymn to Pan'. Then, in 1930, the Portuguese poet in the pince-nez whose only sexual experiences appear to have been lived out through his literary alter egos met his priapic English friend when Crowley turned up in Portugal with one of his multitude of lovers.
The result was an international mystery and scandal. After the woman quarrelled with Crowley and left Portugal, the magus enlisted Pessoa' s help in faking his suicide. He left an apparent suicide note - appropriately enough at a rock formation called the Boco do Inferno, or Mouth of Hell - but then slipped into Spain to savour the accounts of his death in the papers. Pessoa played his part to the full. He even earnestly explained how he had seen Crowley's ghost the next day.
>>17376064
The ordinary man, however hard his life may be, at least has the pleasure of not thinking about it. To take life as it comes, living it externally like a cat or a dog – that is how people in general live, and that is how life should be lived, if we would have the contentment of the cat or dog.
To think is to destroy. Thought itself is destroyed in the process of thinking, because to think is to decompose. If men knew how to meditate on the mystery of life, if they knew how to feel the thousand complexities which spy on the soul in every single detail of action, then they would never act – they wouldn’t even live. They would kill themselves from fright, like those who commit suicide to avoid being guillotined the next day.
---------------------
… And I, who timidly hate life, fear death with fascination.* I fear this nothingness that could be something else, and I fear it as nothing and as something else simultaneously, as if gross horror and nonexistence could coincide there, as if my coffin could entrap the eternal breathing of a bodily soul, as if immortality could be tormented by confinement. The idea of hell, which only a satanic soul could have invented, seems to me to have derived from this sort of confusion – a mixture of two different fears that contradict and contaminate each other.
>>17376087
>>17376061
Just some random passages from Book of Disquiet.
This guy is schizoid par excellence desu senpai. I'm curious to read that Crowley-Pessoa correspondence
>>17376052
A bit, but I'm reluctant to really talk about it in any capacity. I'm not initiated, and moreover, I still don't like The Dude (aka Siddhartha), but most of all I've not stewed on it for years like I have Kaula.
I like Pessoa. Some of his stuff is in the Motta Equinox.
>>17376094
Hey, as a Vajrayana, what's your take on the uninitiated performing Chod? Should profanes like myself stick with something resembling the Bon practice or you think I could reasonably simulate Machig Ladron's recension?
>>17376094
>>17376111
ALSO:
>Is it acceptable to use a khatvanga or kila with a vajra on it in contemplation? Or should those ends of the implements only be used to bless?
>You got a preferred translation of Hevajra Tantra?
>What's your take in general on the Dzongchen (sp?) oaths of austerity? I get the fostering devotional thing before Vajra proper but the old tantras say 'fuck that noise' (plus other interesting things but I don't wanna be too antagonistic :^3).
>>17374576
>a devotional rosary DBoE describes as being an almost perfect mirror of ... Pomba?
That was me a few threads back actually, and it was the Palo Mayombe necklaces.
>numbers and materials.
numbers are actually very very important to the african faiths, yoruba/igbo in particular, some of that love of math got lost in the diaspora though
>the skull
I dont know enough about Vajrayana to speculate unfortunately.
>can come close to voodoo
Apparently I need to read up on tantra more, I thought they were markedly different.
>>17374677
this is not me, by the way, I am curious as well though.
>>17374692
>hard time telling where one influence on mode of practice ends and another influence on mode of practice starts.
I think I understand better what you're saying now.
>The point remains I see a lot more 'building up' of 'ecstatic energy' in Kaula than I do in some other contemporary tantrik modes, so much so it almost seems like West African masquerade.
Right, looks like I need to study up on Kaula Tantra then... Are the roots of tantra based in ancestral reverence and animism?
>>17376094
Kinda mad that that got filtered to desu senpai
>>17376111
>>17376123
I don't particularly like Him either but I see the tradition as (partially) living and the ideal founder as unimportant.
I'm not initiated and am also unqualified to talk about the Vajrayana. Sorry.
I enjoy academic perusal of Vajrayana material. I also resonate with a few teachers who are qualified to speak of it and base my meditation practice on their teachings. Ken McLeod and Reggie Ray are a couple. They teach exceptionally pragmatically which I doubt would be of your taste
Any cool books about Sufi mysticism? Especially Shi'ite Sufism?
>>17376126
For your last question, I honestly cannot say. There's speculation in a book on Chod I've been reading that the origins of the Tantrik Feast, or the consumption of flesh, or at least the visualization thereof, has origins in Eastern Buddhist Iran and greater Buddhist Persia in general. It would make sense as that's where we see the Vajra first crop up in rock art, though the meaning like changed shittons.
I'd err on the side of 'yes', as the Agamic tradition is said to have developed alongside but independent of the Vedic tradition, meaning it'd be influence less by steppe invaders and their concrete religious theologies that you also see echoes of in the Yazna, and more from Indic/Dravidian sources.
Go read Kiss of the Yogini for the sort of tantra I know about and tend to be referencing the most. Unfortunately English material's sparse.
Just to be clear for the nth time, I don't think there's direct relation between tantrik and voodoo modes of use for the skull, but rather that DBoE blends them in a way that's hard for me to disentangle intentions and origins for this or that gesture, oration, or contemplation.
>>17376123
If it helps I have a note on my calibre library that the Snellgrove translation was perhaps whitewashed. Besides that translation I believe there are only a couple more so there's not much choice
>>17376138
I wish mate.
>>17376137
Fair enough mate, it's just that I'm working Chumbley's Dragon Book and I've acquired more or less all the material I'd need to practice Aghori Saivism and Chod, if not big chunks of Vajrayana otherwise, and I already know what I'm doing with my preferred Hindu flavors of tantra that don't call for shit like the kangling and I just wanna get use out of it outside of Chumbley's synchretism; my basic Kali pujas don't require bone trumpets, so the thing's gonna sit if I don't find other uses for it.
>>17376137
Depends on what you mean by pragmatics. If you mean "living Buddhism" yeah I'll pass...if you mean some instructions I'm all ears because that Kalachakra initiation looks intense and I'd like to see how it's applied to other devotional Godforms.
I have other reasons for looking through the material as well but the bottom line is that it's way past time I get familiar with Vajrayana in some functional capacity.
>>17376159
I ask because I wanted a new image of Kali/Shiva and the ones I wanted were nowhere to be found so I just said fuck it and got a thangka of Hevajra and his consort, because I gotta be honest, you cats have the other tantriks beat on the whole 'art' thing. Anyhow, I just figure it'd be respectful not to be obliviously ignorant of the Godforms I'm proxying to Shiva/Shakti through.
I'm fine with it as Abhinavagupta makes good cases for the Vajrayana Godforms being various aspects of Shiva/Shakti.
>>17376175
>>17376185
I dunno if you're aware but Phil Hine seems to be seriously into Tantra. Maybe writing him would be useful
http://enfolding.org/
Also you could try Keith Dowman
[email protected]
There's a guy named John Houseman who might be of help. I don't have a contact for him nor do I even know if that's his real name. If you Google "Great Bliss Buddhism Houseman" you'll find the pdf for a book and discussions about it.
Another is Dr. Alexander Berzin. I don't have a contact for him but this is an excellent *1000 resource for Vajrayana stuff:
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/x/nav/n.html_590453507.html
I'm a believer in reaching out to people who really do this. Those are the people I can think of who do off the top.
>Depends on what you mean by pragmatics. If you mean "living Buddhism" yeah I'll pass...if you mean some instructions I'm all ears because that Kalachakra initiation looks intense and I'd like to see how it's applied to other devotional Godforms.
I can understand the hesitation towards "pragmatic" "living Buddhism". This direction tends towards watering down etc. I personally don't think it's the case for these two I mentioned based on their serious scholarly backgrounds, working with lineaged teachers, thousands of hours of meditation, etc.
A form of the Kalachakra initiation is done publicly today by lineage holders, even in the US. For more on Kalachakra see:
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/x/nav/group.html_57387645.html
>>17376205
Liberation from Cycles of Time
The alternative cycles of time entail a graded series of meditative practices of anuttarayoga tantra. They serve not only as an alternative to the external and internal cycles, but as a way to gain liberation from them. The possibility of gaining liberation from time, however, does not imply that time does not actually exist or that someone can live and benefit others outside of time. Time, as a measurement of change, also occurs as a measure of the cycles of actions of a Buddha. Liberation from time means ridding ourselves of the confusion, and its instincts, that repeatedly give rise to the impulses, or karma, that render us at the mercy of the ravages of time. Once free, we are no longer adversely affected by external winter darkness, eclipses, wars and so on that periodically recur. Nor are we restricted by the type of body that is under the control of periodic biological forces, such as hunger, sexual urges, tiredness or aging. As a result of the full understanding of reality, it becomes possible, instead, to generate cycles of forms that benefit others beyond any limitations imposed by time
>>17376205
Hine's actually more of a Kaula/Natha dude. I'm in contact with him and his initiator. Hine's teacher (Lokanath), was initiated buy a guy, also initiated Chumbley, interestingly enough. All in Kaula lines. I have one particular unfamous contact for Kaula info I talk to who is very close to Hine.
Long story short, my only option's going to have to be to get in touch with not-those-guys, because I'm already talking to them for other things they're more specialized in.
Sorry mate, didn't look twice to see what those texts were, for srs, I'm still very under educated on Vajrayana, and can only vaguely tell good form bad material.
I'm not interested in Kalachakra, I'm personally interested in, um, Black Vajrakila and....another guy....I'm going to have to dig for his name.
>>17376216
I guess the eight Herukas in general, and Vajrayogini as patroness of Chod.
>>17376216
>>17376221
Dowman will probably be able to help and his email is right there. Berzin will almost definitely be able to help but I can't find a contact for him.
>>17376223
>>17376221
u wun't lyin bout da art thing too senpai
>>17376223
How accepting do you think they'd be to hear that I intend to pilfer what scraps of info I'd like on the practice and slip them into my own synchretisms with no/very little intention of being initiated properly?
That's one of the reasons I'm interested in Chod, it developed outside of proper lineages of Tibetan Buddhism and was brought into the fold late, relatively speaking, that and there seems to be quite a bit written about it, vids, it's a short practice (comparatively), etc.
>>17376137
>Kinda mad that that got filtered to desu senpai
Thank Mook McSmalldick for that one.
>>17376241
>>17376232
No idea. But I'd be disappointed if you don't contact one of them and post the results here. Occult pollination is fun. So, do it faggot.
>>17376232
The cutting-off (gcod, “chod”) tradition consists of the functional teachings of the pacifier tradition. According to these, you can cut off all bonds tying you to continued rebirth with suffering in samsara through the practice of first separate and then combined meditations on voidness and bodhichitta. This tradition originally had as its philosophic base the Prasangika-Madhyamaka teachings. In later times, all the Tibetan Buddhist tradition adopted its methods and varied the emphasis in its philosophic base accordingly. It has two main lineages. The father cutting-off lineage traces from Padampa Sanggyay himself to Kyoton Sonam Lama, (sKyo-ston bSod-nams Bla-ma), while the mother cutting-off lineage traces from Kyoton Sonam Lama to the motherly Machig Labdron (Ma-gcig Lab-sgron).
>>17376268
pls dont cut off my chode familia
>>17376256
I'm already pulling up gold, m8, thanks a ton.
>>17376277
Tell us about it please!
>The Cakrasamvara-tantra also describes another ritual that is the closest analogue I have found in Indian literature to the Tachikawa Skull Ritual. Like the latter ritual, it involves anointing a skull with sexual fluids and is associated with ḍākiṇīs and jackals. However, unlike that rite, it is a violent ritual, used for the elimination of one’s enemies.
>>17376271
Hey mate can you help ? I was invoking the ganapati Arya hrdya mantra. But it had some really bad effects. What could've gone wrong ?
>>17376302
what went wrong,? also probably just chill, everythings fine
>>17376299
>Cakrasamvara-tantra
>CHAPTER XXXII
>The Procedures of the Animal Sacrificial Victims, the Means of Achieving the Zombie, and the Creation Stage
Well I'll be gawtdamned.
>>17376328
Should I take this opportunity to try to put you onto some of my 'pragmatic' virtual teachers
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS1T12SX8579AvVjSa9b8iA
>>17376340
says this channel doesn't exist
>>17376340
>>17376354
Odd.
https://www.youtube.com/user/BerzinArchives/videos
>>17376340
I'll watch the 'you need a fuggin guru' vid because I like ya, but I already had my bajillion hour crisis with the implications of nonarising, thanks.
>>17376357
thanks,
ken macleod has podcast btw for anyone interested
>>17376384
>>17376358
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQN-OX31MJc
I lel at the title and thumbnail together
>>17376155
> but rather that DBoE blends them...
Yeah Im following you now.
>>17376328
>The Procedures of the Animal Sacrificial Victims, the Means of Achieving the Zombie, and the Creation Stage
whoah, is this in the library? Theyre even using the term Zombie? wtf.
>>17376094
>I'm curious to read that Crowley-Pessoa correspondence
Not that great senpai, I got the book with scans of the actual letters. Best part is a poem Pessoa wrote about Crowley's 19 yo birdie.
>>17377001
after reading chapter XXXII Im wondering at this translation Zombie is clearly not of local origin in any way, I wonder what the original word was and why they chose zombie over "servitor" or "thrall"?
Beyond that the sacrificial rites seemed unfamiliar to afro-carribean tradition besides the obvious "sacrifice, make offering, eat it" procedure of most animal sacrifice.
The 'zombie' procedure is completely alien to me.
Very interesting chapter anthropologically though.
Anyone going to the london occult conference?
>>17372423
who are you ? and how do i make you my guru ?
>>17377071
Probably the implication of a foul spirit animating a dead body rather than lingering. It's not like the US has a robust vocabulary for this shit.
Curious dude here.
I heard that in Chaos Magick it is a common practice to summon (i/envoke?) anything in order to attain certain effects.
I'm not a talkative person most of the time but when I have to talk it is clear to me that I'm not good at it. I admire Stephen Fry's eloquence and would like to have a bit of his skill at least when I'm supposed to communicate important stuff at work (I'm the head of the division).
Is it something a newbie can do or should I just keep reading and having weekly debates? I've had very small progress from the latter during the past 3 years.
>>17377479
You could go full blown Chaos, sure.
I'd personally evoke Naberius from Lemegeton, but that's me.
>>17377533
Sounds like that's advanced-level stuff, I don't know how to summon and bind yet, and I'd rather not do it without being ready to.
Since I can't do magic, glamours are out of question but do you know of any talismans that could improve the situation even if only by a tiny bit?
Once somebody told me my "magic stone" is the smoky quartz (it's related to the base chakra IIRC), do you think it could have influence on the issue?
>>17377540
To make it clear, I do not own any stones or talismans at the moment.
>>17377540
Sure you can make a talisman. Hell you can make it as per most chaos magick and make a sigil for it or some such thing. Stick it somewhere that's on your person but easily forgettable; slip it into that one sleeve in your wallet you don't use or some shit.
You could also double up and attach the sigil of Naberius onto the personally created sigil. There are a lot of ways to get to the same goals. It's up to you to figure out how you want to get from point X to Y.
>>17377479
Neurolinguistic programmjng might help you. At the very least it is an effective roadmap for what you want. Robert Dilts' Sleight of Mouth and Modeling with NLP could be the most directly useful. In my experience, the linguistic models improved my communicative skills greatly and the modeling methods are a more useful tantra for replicating the language and results of a skilled speaker or leader than mere visualization.
It's also worth it to read the foundational text The Structure of Magic just because it is so damn entertaining.
>>17377542
It don't matter.
I also don't think your quartz has fuckall to do with anything.
>>17376126
>Are the roots of tantra based in ancestral reverence and animism?
Some resarcher's agree (Banerjeee, D.G.White, Geoffrey Samuel).
And it's not difficult to see that tantra does have a very shamanic background.
For example, many yoginis initially were initially local tree or village spirits or demons that were related to certain diseases. Tantra transformed them from such a marginal position to a very prominent. In order to get the power of the Godhead or achieve enlightenment, you had to interact with the Yogini, a messenger of the Goddess at the centre of the mandala. In rituals, the practitioner became possessed by the yoginis, which seems to be a throwback to the shamanic possession. (Although Vajrayana, and not related to the yoginis, one well known case of possession is the oracle of the Dalai Lama). If you want a more detailed account, D.G. White's "Kiss Of The Yogini," is the book for you.
The same think is with the dakini in Vajrayana. Dakini were local spirits that inhabited dangerous places, like charnel grounds, but through a process of transformation became symbols of emptiness and protectors of the dharma. Go J.S.Brown "Dakini's Warm Breath."
Also, all the different tantra spells about gaining riches or killing your enemies by performing manipulation with skulls in cemeteries reeks strongly of the Atharvaveda folk recipes for health, youth, power, and all that stuff, all of which was a very folk stuff and not "high religion" at all.
I'd like to know a little about the kabbalah; just a little to know its premises, goals and procedures. What should I read?
>>17377559
Often the tantras about killing your enemies, especially in Bon and dzogchen are metaphorical. You are killing the enemy within, the thoughtform of the enemy, the meme that affixes to the thing itself and marks it as 'enemy'.
>>17377559
Also, if to speak of chod, it's seems to be just a highly refined and controlled version of the shamanic dismemberment experience wherein the shaman feels that all his body is being torn, eaten and digested by spirits. As a result of this, the shaman was reborn and achieved his abilities. Chod seems to be that in essence, but tailored to Buddhist beliefs and artificially induced instead of being a spontaneous visionary experience. As an example, compare Eskimo shaman's initiation as seeing oneself as skeleton and Chod. If I remember, Mircea Eliade wrote about this. Plus, this particular part of the shaman's life is mentioned in every academic work on shamanism.
In fact, what tantra, both Hindu and Buddhist dis, was incorporate local evil or elemental spirits and transform them into the expression of the Godhead/emptiness, which is a good bridge between animism and high religion. A good book about how evil spirits became part of the tantric pantheon in Tibet is Jacob P. Dalton "The Taming Of The Demons." The book also tells about other violent but undoubtedly shamanic in their form and origin practices of Vajrayana.
And one last thing, even in contemporary India the majority of tantric practitioners are regarded as folk healers or people who you go to when you have some problem or need a spell to be done, which is within the definition of folk religion and the function of the shaman.
>>17376159
I can't remember the book, but it was clearly states there that Snellgrove himself commented that some parts of the Hevajra were too much in terms of violence and transgression. Otherwise, it's the best translation out there, and if you read the introduction and know the basic metaphors of tantra, it's all pretty straightforward.
>>17377568
In tantra outside of Tibet, particularly Kashimir Saivism and it's sisters and cousins, ain't much of that shit is actually metaphor. Their siddhis are reckoned as sorcery by the locals as opposed to the natural consequences of yoga.
>>17377567
Depends. Anything by Aryeh Kaplan or David Chaim Smith for more 'traditional' Kabbalistic method. For the occult aspects, um, Regardie's Tree of Life, Garden of Pomegranates, or Middle Pillar, Dion Fortune's Mystical Qabbalah.
>>17377577
Or the Kanaima and their travel to the underworld to conquer the demons attempting to cannibalize him. Shit's everywhere.
Incidentally, that's another thing that draws me to Chod, particularly the short and sweet Bon editions.
Thanks for the heads up on the Dalton, looks like a good addition to the library.
>>17377568
I know. However, the description of the act itself seems to echo to the folk religion.
Also, it's not as much as Buddhist as a Hindu thing.
S.S. Banerjee in his book about Hindu tantras brings a description from one of them about going to the charnel ground and burying skulls and sitting of them as way to achieve a rather mundane goal, which isn't different all from common witchcraft. (Banerjee, Sures Chandra.A Brief History of Tantra Literature)
>>17377590
What caused all muh tantra bros to crawl out of the woodwork?
how can you be into occultism when the endgame of successful occults is seeing 2much and going mad from knowledge
>>17377602
You read too much Lovecraft and got meme'd, son.
>>17377602
The endgame is being half-mad, which is a hell of a lot less than most people.
Using non-hypnotic means, how do you guys induce experiences or states in other people?
>>17377627
>Without communicating, how do you guys induce experiences or states in other people?
Wait until they do it themselves, but that's just a cheap answer.
>>17376328
>Means of Achieving the Zombie
Just like I suspected. Poor translation. What's the source?
Better go with David Gray's translation. They're available on libgen.
http://vajrayana.faithweb.com/Chakrasamvara.pdf
Page 459
Sorry. Can't copy from the pdf for soem reason.
Vetala is a charnel ground spirit that likes to dwell in dead bodies. He enters into a dead bodies and animates it. Compared to a voodoo zombie, it's a more intellectually evolved and dangerous creatures.
A good folklore about vetalas are the Vetalas 25 stories (Vetalapancavimshati), better known in the West as Vikram and The Vampire.
>>17377704
That IS Grey's translation.
Heard 'thelema' just before I fell asleep and now after searching I've gotten here. Hiya
>>17377746
H-hello.
How do I into magick?
>>17377596
maybe these shouldbe labeled as occultism, magick and tantra threads. It would be accurate, and maybe bring in some interesting new folks. or annoying troll talking about how homos/degenerates/godknowswhat
>>17377627
hypnosis doesn't describe a technique, or since erickson arguably even a family of techniques. I use body language and changes in my pattern of speaking. I don't consider it hypnosis, but one could. I'd be hard pressed to think of a plausible technique that isn't something like drugs or direct brain manipulation via electromagnetic stimuli or somesuch that couldn't be considered hypnotism
>>17377860
I know. That's exactly why I asked that question.
>>17377746
like what you see?
>>17377863
Well ya got me!
>>17377863
All to confirm your presuppositions of your own aesthetic. And yet all it has done for me is show the limits of adhering to a singular religious belief to the exception of others. Congratulations, you've fallen into one of the most documented of psychological misconceptions and still managed to tip your little fedora. Thank you, o wise one, for the wisom you have bestowed in your error has enlightened me.
>>17377762
Can anyone help me out?
>>17377899
Believe whatever and see what works. Do some yogas and discipline the mind. For more advanced work, you're going to have to die. Metaphorically speaking.
>>17377899
Most important, read the fucking sticky. Hine's oven ready chaos is as good an introduction as any.
>>17377894
>All to confirm your presuppositions of your own aesthetic.
Wait, what did any of the above confirm at all?
(protip: nothing)
I'm just pointing out that everything can be reduced to hypnosis, and studying that makes for more effective rituals, as they are then aligned with the neuropsychological processes more.
>>17377940
It just sounds like you're saying that hypnosis is the only thing and not a singular practice that still requires a roadmap to function. Hypnosis can be reduced to hypnosis, there still remains everything else. Tantra or ritual contain hypnosis, but it is only a single method of a larger system. It is a useful study but not anywhere near a complete means to an end.
Also you're a smug asshole who is never going to hypnotize those qualities out of yourself. Check your ego and check your neuropsychological privilege.
>>17377954
>hypnosis is the only thing and not a singular practice that still requires a roadmap to function.
Correct. It doesn't require a roadmap.
>Hypnosis can be reduced to hypnosis, there still remains everything else.
And everything else can be reduced to hypnosis as well.
>Tantra or ritual contain hypnosis, but it is only a single method of a larger system.
Excluding the consummation of drugs and other substances, it is everything else.
>It is a useful study but not anywhere near a complete means to an end.
And how would you support that assertion?
>Also you're a smug asshole who is never going to hypnotize those qualities out of yourself.
Why would I let go of qualities which open doors?
>Check your ego and check your neuropsychological privilege.
>ego
>privilege
Pic related.
>>17377959
(You)
>>17377959
hey can you help ? im trying to find the perfect mantra .
>>17378116
He can't even help himself be heard with a tripcode, whatever could he do for you?
>>17378119
Can you ?
>>17378121
Aum Hrim Namah
>>17378130
can you be my guru ? i need a guru
>>17378142
Did your guru tell you this?
>>17378161
i have no guru
>>17378173
Someone told you this. He was either your guru and right, or a starry eyed fool and wrong.
>>17378180
what if i tell you it was ganesha ?
>>17378142
I'll teach you a trick I learned from a guru
Guru, now let's spell that out G , U , R , U
Gee You are You
>>17378184
Then you have your inner guru in a most perfect form. Anyone and everyone, anything and everything can be your outer guru if you relate it to the most auspicious qualities you already know and know within. Guru is just a metaphor, a yoga for cultivating the inner guru.
>>17378207
Thank you, wise one
>>17378241
I am a fool. I left out the most important part. That should the world not match your inner guru, your conception of the inner may be wrong. The same is conversely true.
>>17377959
Ritual is older and more varied than hypnosis as a tradition, and can be similarly interpreted broadly. Why not say that hypnosis is ritual as opposed to the other way around?
>>17378260
Because hypnosis doesn't have to be ritual. In fact, it very often is the opposite.
>>17378264
Seems like a system with metaphysical explanations for phenomena and methodology for manipulating it. You know, ritual. Except only a small subset of it.
>>17378297
>Seems like a system with metaphysical explanations for phenomena and methodology for manipulating it.
Not metaphysical at all. Neuropsych.
>You know, ritual.
Ritual is by definition something which follows a set pattern of behavior. Hypnosis doesn't. It can, but it's far, far from being necessary to perform the work.
I.e. you don't even know what hypnosis is.
>>17378303
Did I miss where someone directly mapped all mental phenomena in MRI? We solved the brain and found the mind within? Know the complete function and language of it all?
Still sounds like metaphysics to me.
>>17378331
>implying all those are required for us to know with certainty that hypnosis is at the core of every mystical and religious practice
>implying we don't already know how to repeatably cause those same changes in humans without ritual
>implying science is metaphysics
There's 777 Vehicle Transference Sorcery and it gives steps on how to physically trade bodies with a willing partner, I've read it over many times and it seems legit
>>17377913
I may never grow tired of watching people trying to read the future in a head of cabbage.
>>17377899
libraries here >>17368612
there is a beginner folder
>>17377634
That is the correct answer I'd say. Horse to water and all that.
>>17378303
If hypnosis is a process that occurs within a set of guidelines, than hypnosis is a ritual. If hypnosis is simply anything that bypasses the CF, than hypnosis doesn't exist because the CF is never fully bypassed, e.i. you can't make someone do something that is against their will. You're merely offering people a placebo predicated upon their belief in your quasi-mystic expertise.
>>17378660
>If hypnosis is a process that occurs within a set of guidelines, than hypnosis is a ritual.
Which it's not.
>If hypnosis is simply anything that bypasses the CF, than hypnosis doesn't exist because the CF is never fully bypassed, e.i. you can't make someone do something that is against their will.
Yes, you can. Because the "will" is a product of the conscious mind, no more, no less.
>You're merely offering people a placebo predicated upon their belief in your quasi-mystic expertise.
False. I am offering a repeatable, scientifically proven and well-studied mechanism for attaining results.
>>17377738
Missed the introduction.
It's weird that the term was translated as such.
Although having reread the chapter, I see way he translates it as a zombie and a ghost, since preta, if left untranslated, can cause misunderstanding.
Judging by the fact that there are several manuscripts of the tantra, I can see why Gray dissertation brings in vetala while the published book mentions preta.
>>17378681
If you could hypnotize someone into giving you a fortune you would. You can't get someone to do something that is fundamentally against their nature and desires.
>repeatable, scientifically proven and well-studied mechanism
Placebo fits those categories as well. If I were to say that the placebo effect was a result of hypnotism, would you disagree?
>>17378736
>If you could hypnotize someone into giving you a fortune you would.
Do you really think that low of me?
>You can't get someone to do something that is fundamentally against their nature and desires.
Which is not the same as bypassing someone's will.
>>17378766
>think that low
I think we may have different ethical guidelines.
>not the same
Perhaps I phrased it poorly. But this is missing the point.
