We discuss pre PPC Aplle computer gaming in this thread.
I already know about PPC mac gaming (it sucks liquid shit of birds cloaca) so don't talk about that
What is the difference between the Mac series and the Apple series in terms of gaming?
Which one was B&W?
Which one was colour?
Which one had more games?
Which one cost more?
Which had better gfx?
Which had better audio?
Did either use any controller other than keyboard?
Which one was fanless for less noise?
Were pre PPC apple systems closer to 4th gen gaming like the Amiga or closer to 3rd gen gaming like the C64?
How does the retro mac gaming compare to Euro computers like Acorn Archimedes and Amstrad CPC?
How does the retro mac gaming compare to Jap computers like MSX, and FM Towns?
How does the retro mac gaming compare to Merchant computers like MSDOS 486 and IBM PC/AT?
What kind of game genres predominated on Apple machines?
What type of person/personality played games on applel? E.G. Wii was popular in retirement homes, PS3 was enjoied by fans of Japanimation, the Xbox360 was the dudbro platform.
If nintendo=mario, sega=sonic, NEC=bonk;
Who was the mascot of apple gamine?
What was the slogan for apple machines? e.g. "nintendo is what genesisn't" "to be this good takes ages" "don't play a dodo, play 3DO"
If
Nintendo=Nintenyearold
Sega=Segay
Sony=Sonygger
NEC=NECbeard
SNK=essen-cuck
3DO=Matsushithead
Atari=Tardies
Coleco=Leathermen
Xbox=boners
etc etc etc
What are Apple computer gaming enthusiasts called?
Throwing in many many questions, using underage discussion points like how some other underages call other "enthusiasts" and hoping for discussion/replies.. please go back to /v/ or some other kindergarten.
I would actually say that Apple/Mac gaming was superior to Intel/IBM PC gaming up until a certain year.
Perhaps '90 or '91 is when PC surpassed Mac in terms of gaming. And this is if you don't mind the dank monochrome games on Mac.
Which year do you guys think PC gaming eclipsed Mac/Apple gaming?
I know that PC equalized to Amiga in 92 and surpassed Amiga in 93.
Mac gaming was always lesser quality and quantity than Eurocomps let alone Nipcomps, to say nothing of consoles.
>>3170362
I had a Mac growing up, or it was my mom's, in the early '90s. It was a Performa model, that was one of the very first computers with a CD-ROM drive. There were very few Mac games back then, and there were even less Mac-only games or ones that came out on the platform first. The few that I can think of are the original MacVenture games such as Shadowgate, Uninvited, and Deja Vu I and II. Also there was the Cyan titles like Myst and the earlier ones. Spelunx and Cosmic Osmo were like Myst from what I can remember, but were mostly black and white graphics and they didn't really have a way to "beat" them; it was just about messing around and wandering around and discovering things. Also there were vaguely educational in nature. There was another game before that, Manhole, but that one was intended for young children if I remember correctly. It was still a bit similar to Myst though, as in it was made of a bunch of static screens that you wander between and the game was created with Hypercard. Of course it didn't have Quicktimes videos like Myst did though.
Also, I had that LucasArts Volume I adventure game pack for Macintosh CD which was pretty awesome, but that was ported over from the PC of course. What was pretty cool is that in Day of the Tentacle, there still was the hidden game-within-a-game of Maniac Mansion, same as the PC version. But what was crazy about it is that when porting it over, which I think was done almost if not entirely by one guy, he had to write his own DOS emulator for Macintosh just to get Maniac Mansion to run on the old computer that Bernard repeatedly has to use, just like with the PC port. Must've been a pretty smart and devoted programmer to have done that. I would have figured that most anyone else wouldn't have bothered trying to get Maniac Mansion to work as it was just basically an Easter egg in the game.
>>3170362
Trying to get my Mac 512k working. I managed to blow the fuse so I'll have to change that :(
>>3172206
Hearing about your 512K got me worried about mine. Haven't plugged it in for about 4 years.
Pulled out my 512Ke (originally was a 512K but was dealer upgraded in 1986), and it still works.
I'll probably ROM-Inate it soon and get a FloppyEmu.
Thanks for reminding me
You should probably read Wikipedia or Apple History or something instead of asking all these basic questions. You can pretty much divide the /vr/ Macs into the B&W compact Macs (all of which look almost exactly like the one in your pic), the Power Macintosh/iMac/iBook lineup, based off PowerPC processors, and the color Macs based off 68k processors, which is everything not listed above. Generally these are backwards compatible.
The Mac scene was never that big. The most popular Mac specific games at the time were Marathon, Ambrosia Software's library, Dark Castle, Nanosaur and Glider Other games (Myst, Deja Vu) started out on the Mac, but very few of them are best played on one.
Here's a pre-packaged disk image for Mini vMac, with System 6 and a few games. It only emulates the Mac Plus and its paltry game library, but Basilisk II (for color 68k Macs) and SheepShaver (for the PowerPC line) are both a pain to set up. You'll still need to find the BIOS image somewhere. http://digiex.net/downloads/download-center-2-0/applications/8541-mac-os-6-games-apps-emulator.html
More games are here: http://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/system_6_hell But you also check online for more, since even this list leaves out titles like Sim City.
>all this spoonfeeding
>>3173465
Also, it's very difficult to move files from Windows to a Mac emulator. Look up HFVExplorer.
>>3173235
Eh... so far as I can tell it probably isn't broken. Just me being an idiot and Amazon being a bunch of bastards selling broken cables.
>>3172048
http://aarongiles.com/history/
>An amusing aspect of the Day of the Tentacle port is that the PC version had an easter egg where you could go back and play the very first LucasArts adventure game Maniac Mansion. To do this, the game would just launch a DOS shell running the original game. Of course, Maniac Mansion had never been ported to the Mac before, so everyone assumed we wouldn't be including it. But I would have none of that — Mac users deserved the easter egg as well! So I went back to the old 16-bit source code and converted it to a library that compiled in a 32-bit world. I simulated 4-color CGA video modes for the graphics. Furthermore, I ended up writing my first emulator: a crude AY-8910 to simulate the sound chip that was in the Tandy 1000 using the Mac's simple DAC sound playback. I happened to know how that chip worked due to my past experience with the PCjr, which also had one.
I haven't touched an Apple computer since grade one so please make corrections to this post as necessary.
My understanding is that the larger color computers for use as workstations called Apple II had a smaller game library because people
used them as business/design machines.
These computers used MOS 6502 CPUs.
The best of these was the Apple IIGS which can be compared to 4th gen consoles. It had good resolution and colour but poor
scrolling and sprite handling. Its said to have a very good sound chip but I don't know if that mean great sound effects, great music, or
both.
The B&W compact computers called Macintosh were the cheaper option for home users. This had the larger game library.
These computers used 68000 CPUs.
Although they have no colour they make up for it with high resolution so I would say they're comparable to 3rd gen consoles.
I think these have a weak sound chip that just beeps.
The best of these was the Macintosh LC which displayed color and with a special addon card was compatible with Apple IIe
software.
In the early 90s Apple moved all its computers professional and home alike to the PPC CPU architecture. Although comparable to 5th
gen consoles, this was the darkest age for Apple gaming as games were few and lame.
All of these computers used keyboard and mouse for games. If controllers existed nobody used them. I think all of these computers
had fans on their power supply and for PPC systems on the CPU as well.
Gaming on Apple/Macs has always been meagre and many of the games were edutainment. I would say that Mac/Apple gaming is
even worse than 80's IBM PC gaming if your consider the poor selection of games on the former.
The mascot for Apple gaming is nonexistant even unofficially amongst fans.
Apple had good advertising back in the day which featured great slogans but I don't think any of them are relevent to gaming.
No one bought it exclusively for gaming purposes like many people did with ZX spectrum and C64. Apple IIs were professional
computers; you might load a game on lunch break. Macintoshes were all purpose household machines. After you finished typing up a
grocery list your kid might play a learning game on it.
Apple II was also very popular in school's computer labs so it might have more game than Macintosh if you count educational games.
I remember playing in the school computer lab in grade one. I inserted a 5.25" floppy into and Apple computer (Macintosh always had
3.5" drive) and played this game that looked the Legend of Zelda overworld but my character looked like an Octorok and I did math
puzzles.
The word for Apple fanboys is simple and obvious: Fruits.
Even in the early days the cultish nature of macfaggotry was observed by concerned outsiders.
Again my memory is foggy as I grew up with Win9X PCs so please make corrections as needed.
>>3177713
>The B&W compact computers called Macintosh
>I think these have a weak sound chip that just beeps.
No, even the very first Macs supported 22khz sampled audio.
This game came out in 1984:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G7R9lV9eVY
>>3170362
This is mostly from the perspective of the Apple //e I grew up on, somewhat ignoring the IIGS. And comparing with the B&W compact Macs of the 80s.
>Which one was B&W?
>Which one was colour?
The Macintosh up to the Mac II line was 1 bit B&W, 512x384pixels.
The Apple // primarily has two graphics modes, 40x48 pixel 16 color low res, and 280x192 high res with 8 colors. The way it worked, it was effectively 6 colors with some other limitations, but more technical than I want to go into with this post.
If you had a //c or "enhanced" //e with extended 80 column card, there was a 580x192, 16 color double high res mode available. A 80x40 double lo res mode was also available, but I think only on the //c.
>Which one had more games?
I'm going to take an educated guess and say the Apple //. By the 90s, computing hardware had slimmed down to just PC & Mac, with the former getting the bulk of game development from having the sheer market share.
>Which one cost more?
Probably about the same, though if you really want to reach, you could get an Apple // with no disk drive or interface cards, and plug that into your TV. Maybe dig your old tape recorder from the closet if you wanted to save your programs.
>Which had better gfx?
Debatable, depends on what you want to do. Mac was designed from the ground up as a graphical based machine with a sharp B&W display. The Apple // was designed to plug into your TV and play breakout in 16 colors. And Woz in his obsession to reduce chip counts relied on all kinds of tricks which made working with graphics at low levels somewhat interesting. Watch how the images load in this video; it's most noticeable with the first. If you were to poke values directly into the screen memory sequentially, it would not start at the top and work downward line by line. It complete a line, jump 7 lines down and repeat, producing a venetian blind effect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shV5ghFsnTk
>>3177970
>Which had better audio?
The Macintosh had actual audio hardware built in. A stock Apple //, like he IBM PC, had no ability to produce sound other than a click. You could click the speaker quickly enough to produce sound with various limitation. Good enough for games. These aren't the best examples of sounds, just some quick titles that came to mind; less I go into some bottomless nostalgia pit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abOXbHPga30 Hard Hat Mack
Early'ish game, possibly one of the better examples of "regular" sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfyCxp8YPx0 Gemstone Warrior
Ok example of simulated two voice sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmzxg5WLsW0 Airheart
Very simple, minimal sound. I imagine because the game is also having to deal with the added burden of double high res graphics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fgok9eHqO8 Castle Wolfenstein
In addition to being a classic game, famous for the (German) speech samples.
There were some sound boards you could purchase for the Apple, the most popular being the Mockingboard, though unless you were really into music, most people stuck with a stock machine.
Music Construction Set with Mockingboard and simulated 2 voice through the Apple's speaker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHSzaAOiRSs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flZEohUWIBY
Mockingboard information with supported games demoed. You can probably search each individual title to see what they were like with stock sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGXOf0T7r-A
>>3178017
>Did either use any controller other than keyboard?
I don't know for sure about the Mac in the 80s, but for that period your options were pretty much just keyboard and mouse, as there was limited option to plug in other devices.
The Apple // has a 16pin game I/O which allowed for 4 paddles (or 2 joysticks) and 3 buttons. Though most joysticks took over the entire I/O socket, and pretty much covered the needs of 97% of people. If you had a two player game, keyboard was pretty much their option. Sirius Software made a device that let you plug in two joysticks; also Atari style sticks, a few games like Archon supported that. The Apple //e added an external DB9 port for a joystick. The //c extended function of the DB9 connector to interface the mouse.
>Which one was fanless for less noise?
Neither had fans built in.
>Were pre PPC apple systems closer to 4th gen gaming like the Amiga or closer to 3rd gen gaming like the C64?
Somewhere in between? My experience was with B&W classics (68000), the first LCs which were gimped by design (68020) and my Performa 630 (68LC040) and all three are somewhat different experiences. And I imagine the Amiga had a relatively longer existing, color based platform to develop its gaming library.
>How does the retro mac gaming compare to Euro computers like Acorn Archimedes and Amstrad CPC?
>How does the retro mac gaming compare to Jap computers like MSX, and FM Towns?
Never played them.
>How does the retro mac gaming compare to Merchant computers like MSDOS 486 and IBM PC/AT?
Never played enough to to comparatively say. The Mac didn't get all the popular PC titles, but I found a lot to be entertained by.
>What kind of game genres predominated on Apple machines?
All were pretty solid. The Apple // was a significant platform in the 80s. The major publishers developed Apple // versions of their games (if not develop there first.) And like most other computers, also had a lot of smaller publishers.
The Apple II goes way the fuck further back than the Mac, it came out in 1977 and was the first fully assembled, non-kit microcomputer available.
A stock Apple II has 40x25 text mode and 280x192 bitmap graphics. The video circuitry doesn't actually generate color, it relies on NTSC trickery namely the fact that the chroma part of the signal is half the resolution of the luminance. If a white and a black pixel are placed next to each other, you'll get either green or purple depending on whether the white pixel is on an even or an odd row. Placing two pixels next to each other yields a solid white pixel.
The original Apple II only displayed four colors, but on the II+ Wozniak added an extra TTL chip to flip the NTSC color burst by 90 degrees, thus making it possible to add orange and blue.
There were several models of the Apple II, which would be:
Original II (1977-80)
These only display four colors in graphics mode and they automatically boot into the mchine language monitor on power up. You have to enter a command to go into BASIC or boot the disk drive. They came with Wozniak's Integer BASIC in ROM and Applesoft BASIC had to be loaded from disk or tape. The system board supports anywhere from 4k to 48k of RAM. It was possible to upgrade an original II and turn it into a II+.
II+ (1979-83)
Has the full 6 color graphics mode and automatically boots the disk drives on power-up. If no bootable disk is present, it defaults to Applesoft BASIC. As memory prices fell during 1980, almost all II+ machines were shipped from the factory with the full 48k of RAM.
IIe (1983-89)
The IIe had a number of proprietary LSI chips instead of the TTL logic used on the earlier Apple IIs partially to reduce chip count and partially to discourage cloning. It had 64k of RAM standard and a D-shell joystick connector instead of the motherboard socket on the II/II+.
There was also the //e which was essentially the same computer but with an enhanced CPU that had a couple of new instructions (but almost nothing actually used them).
A stock IIe has the same graphics capabilities as the II/II+ but you can add a DHGR card which gives it an additional 64k of RAM and the ability to use 16 color DHGR mode.
IIc (1984-89)
The IIc was a portable model and essentially a //e with standard 128k/80 column/DHGR graphics. It had one integrated floppy drive and an external one can also be attached. The cassette port was deleted and it does not boot into BASIC (ie. you need a system disk).
IIgs (1986-92)
The IIgs was a totally different 16-bit machine based on the 65816 CPU, but still fully compatible with most 8-bit Apple software and peripherals. It had 320x200 or 640x200 graphics and an Ensoniq synthesizer with 32 (!) voice sound.
Despite the impressive sound capabilities, the IIgs was cripplingly slow at only 2Mhz though third party CPU accelerators were available. It never achieved significant software support outside the educational market.
>>3177717
>Apple had good advertising back in the day which featured great slogans but I don't think any of them are relevent to gaming.
>No one bought it exclusively for gaming purposes like many people did with ZX spectrum and C64. Apple IIs were professional
Disclaimer: Only applies to Yurop
Actually the Apple II was very very relevant to gaming since PC gaming as we know it was born there.
The Apple II was pretty much the center of the universe in the early 80s, then got gradually displaced by PC clones. It went on to the end of the decade but after 1985 was not that important anymore outside the educational market.
Apple IIs are actually an exceedingly primitive computer. They don't even have hardware interrupts.
>>3178092
>D-shell joystick connector instead of the motherboard socket
The Game I/O socket on the motherboard is still present in the //e and IIGS.
>DHGR card
Extended 80 Column Card, which added 80 column text capability and "extended" memory with another 64k. I don't know the technicals about it, but the DHGR (double high res graphics) mode was something of a fluke or some such
related to how the 80 column text mode worked ... half the text screen (every other column) was stored in the memory bank on the card. Similarly with the high res graphics in 7(?) pixel segments.
>>3178096
There was also the IIc Plus which ran at 4MHz, changed the serial ports from the larger DIN5 to smaller DIN8 ports like the IIGS and newer Macs, and replaced the 5.25 floppy drive with a 3.5".
DHGR mode is exceedingly slow, so not suitable for arcade/action games.
>>3178070
>What type of person/personality played games on applel?
Geeks? Personal computers were far from being a household fixture in the 80s. Most computer users were geeks who moved on to them from the 2600 after the crash. I never noticed any personality drifting towards each. I was a kid and wanted *any* computer. Would've been happy with a C64, or even the Timex Sinclair 1000 that was in the Long's Drugstore ad for $40.
>What was the slogan for apple machines?
If anything, their boxes used to say "The Personal Computer." They later declared "Apple Ii Forever" even as they were slowly killing it and shifting resources towards the Macintosh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjlhFVTY50
>If Nintendo=Nintenyearold etc etc etc
>What are Apple computer gaming enthusiasts called?
What the wat?
>>3178152
Almost forgot the Platinum IIe. Reduced chip count, but otherwise largely functionally identical, and expanded keyboard with numeric keypad, better accommodating the IIGS upgrade option.
>What are Apple computer gaming enthusiasts called?
Faggots.
In the later years of the Apple II line, 3.5" floppies became available - these were identical to the 800k Mac disks (in terms of the disk format), but the drives themselves were not electrically compatible with a Mac and would create magic smoke if plugged into one.
All IIgs software was distributed on 3.5" disks and 5.25" drives were just there to let you run 8-bit software (some late IIe/IIc software also came on 3.5" disks).
Back in the day, Apple IIs had one of the nerdiest userbases ever. I mean, these guys were hardcore l33t hax0r Dungeons & Dragons neckbeards and they thought Atari and Commodore machines were consumer toys for 11 year olds.
>>3178230
The 800k format is actually what's called variable speed; there's fewer sectors on the inner tracks and more on the outer tracks. Part of this was to improve reliability; one of the reasons why 1.44MB PC disks are unreliable is how tightly the data is packed in, especially the small inner tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmv7ZWAMVx4
Super Bunny. Note the loud machine gun noise the drive makes. This is actually the stepper motor changing track positions. Most single sided drives were quite noisy; I seem to recall the Commodore 1541s doing this as well.
The first Mac with a fan was the Macintosh SE (1987). A 68000-based B+W Machine.
The first Color-capable Mac was the Macintosh II (1987). A 68020-based modular (not all in one) machine.
Before the Power Macs (1994) appeared, the majority of machines in use were Color, and starting in 1991 Macs had better CPUs (68040).
The perception that all Macs were black and white survives because so many schools purchased the Mac Classic. The Mac Classic (1991) was a 68000-based B+W Mac that was in most respects identical to the Mac Plus (1986). It was a throwback model that was very cheap. Schools purchased them in very large numbers.
I remember having heated arguments with other nerd kids my age that there weren't Color Macs. Many didn't believe until my school bought a few in about 1994.
>>3178070
>"APPLE" is a registered trade mark of you-know-who
got a laugh from me.
>>3178283
The Tandon TM-100s used in IBM XTs are almost silent, in fact probably some of the quietest floppy drives I've seen.
>>3178245
The Atari and Commodore kinda were. They were relatively closed boxes largely expandable only through the available ports.
The Apple // came with peripheral slots, in addition to a bunch of motherboard jumpers to modify bits of the system's behavior. The Game IO port as the name suggests allows for input and output. It's been used to do simple data networking between machines and was not uncommon to still see Apple // machines in labs through the 90s because they built measuring instruments utilizing the port.
The early iterations of the manual also included a full logic board schematic.
>>3177105
The Maniac Mansion was in an exe file that had its extension changed. You could rename it to exe and play it directly.
Also I remember it being in EGA not CGA.
>>3180639
He's talking about converting it for the Mac on DOTT.
Also the MM included with DOTT has a couple of modifications from the old standalone version such as having the copy protection removed. It apparently doesn't work on 8086 PCs either.
>>3177717
>I remember playing in the school computer lab in grade one. I inserted a 5.25" floppy into and Apple computer (Macintosh always had
>3.5" drive) and played this game that looked the Legend of Zelda overworld but my character looked like an Octorok and I did math
>puzzles.
Actually now I remember that the octoroks were the enemies that killed you and they looked more like Q-bert.
Your character tries to dodge them and eat digits. I think it was called math cruncher or something. Does anyone else recall this game?
>>3181231
>>3172048
>he had to write his own DOS emulator for Macintosh
If people could play DOS games on a Mac, it would have actually made the Mac a viable gaming platform.
>>3184815
Apple produced some models with a DOS card.
http://lowendmac.com/1993/mac-lc-630-dos-compatible/
There were software based emulators available too.
>>3170362
>What was the slogan for apple machines? e.g. "nintendo is what genesisn't" "to be this good takes ages" "don't play a dodo, play 3DO"
The real genius is that you don't have to be a genius to use a Macintosh.
You just have to be smart enough to buy one.
>>3187817
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ0LHzFQ7Yw
>>3170362
I used to play games on my mom's Mac Classic. Pool of Radiance, Shufflepuck Cafe, Dark Castle, Where in time is carmen sandiego, among others
'sup.
