Okay fags, so I've seen an influx of people saying that EarthBound is really a bad game that's only liked because of nostalgia. On top of that, actual fans of the game are barely able to defend their opinion and clearly state what makes it good. So here's a thread just for that. Everyone doesn't have to like the game, but at least it's an argument for those who want to hear why, or those who're looking to try it.
>atmosphere
First of all the atmosphere in EarthBound is great. I think the notion of a kid going on an adventure armed only with a baseball bat appeals to everyone on some level. The game is adventurey, sometimes surreal but without overdosing on "DUDE PSYCHEDELICS LMAO" to appeal to the crowd that thinks anything being trippy makes it good. I'd best compare it to JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. It's a strange concept to begin with, not a total parody but also takes itself seriously sometimes while not at all at other times, and it's all about the mundane becoming more and more bizarre with the story often taking new directions at different points. In fact you can even draw parallels between Pokey and Dio. Now you wouldn't say JoJo has a an objectively "good" cohesive story, but it's just so damned unique and fun. EarthBound is the same way for me.
>world + pacing
The pacing of the game is great. There's barely any padding. Each location is diverse and has its own mystery different from the last. Onett's gang problem, Twoson's cult problem, Threed the zombie apocalypse town, and Fourside, my absolute favorite "things seem normal on the surface but something VERY fucked up is going on behind the scenes" setting in a video game. The dungeons never overstay their welcome. The hardest parts of the game such as Peaceful Rest Valley or the Fourside Dept Store are still beatable in under 10 minutes, all fights included.
I'm going to continue in the next post and talk about music and gameplay(the most important thing for a game) and maybe other things.
(1/3)
>music
The music is fantastic. It's very varied, takes from a number of different genres, and the soundtrack is huge for a game of the SNES-era. I mean, it's got different battle themes just for what kind of enemy you're facing. Even detractors of the game often agree that the music is pretty damned good. In addition to EarthBound having a unique concept and setting compared to any other RPG of its time, its music naturally was too and is very unique unlike the generic 'fantasy epic' soundtrack most other games went for. Some favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D20dF5Ao1mE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QcnI9EXUlI
Short post because my write-up on gameplay was too long, so it'll be on the next one.
(2/3)
>gameplay
Most people who dislike the game say it's because the gameplay is unforgivably simple. This is probably what you've been waiting for.
Firstly, lets look at what EarthBound does right. No random encounters is a huge, HUGE plus. It immediately decreases frustration by exponential amounts. Not only that, but weak enemies are auto-killed on the spot when you encounter them, making revisiting areas a pleasant experience. Think of backtracking in lategame FF games and being ambushed by fucking Leaf Bunnies. Not here.
The rolling HP meter is also fantastic. It forces the player to make split second decisions. "Do I have enough time to cast a spell or will the long animation lead to this character dying?" In lategame battles it adds tons of tension and arguable makes the fights more 'real time' than the FF series' ATB system.
People need to stop pretending that SNES RPGs were the paragons of good gameplay. Sure monster recruiting in DQ5 was fun, customizing jobs in FF5 is neat and the magicite system of FF6 allowed for a lot of customization. But still for regular mobs you're just mashing A, and for the bosses you're spamming your strongest spells + healing since status ailments don't work. EarthBound fully acknowledges it's a JRPG: it doesn't distract you with some really neat skill system to hide its simple battles, but at the same time it alleviates the common frustrations of the genre as mentioned above. The only JRPG at the time with battles that even occasionally amounted to more than just using your best spells and healing at the right time was Chrono Trigger. Even action RPGs like Tales of Phantasia were very simplistic.
In short, other JRPGs have higher highs and lower lows. EarthBound cuts out all the fluff, but also greatly improves the shitty conventions of the genre. This is why many people who normally dislike JRPGs end up liking the game, such as Yahtzee. So in short, if you had to ask me I'd say "no, EarthBound does not have bad gameplay."
(3/3)
So there you have it. I originally posted all this on /v/ some time back but figured /vr/ might appreciate it. Discuss, argue, whatever.
>>3066782
Personally I think you're doing god's work and for the most part I agree with what's here, always liked Earthbound a lot. But I feel like someone's just going to come in and be all "Eh it's still shit far from perfect far from the best the SNES has to offer" and never stop comparing it and using the idea that it 'isn't the best' as a basis to tear it down.
>>3066782
>>this game is good because I like it
See OP, you could have made your point clear enough if you didn't try to write an essay defending this game. Also, there's no need at all to create a whole new thread because tons of threads of Earthbound are being made here, even more so than let's say the Doom general.Not that it matters much anymore cause this whole board has become a farce, even more than let's say /mlp/
And here I thought people hated FF13
>>3066782
>>3066785
>>3066790
Good points, I feel Earthbound is more just frowned upon then actually hated. Before Earthbound repersented the worst of retro gaming, inflated prices and annoying "fanbase" or people who were actual hipsters who pretend to like it. Today I don't think those people really exist in the Earthbound fan community, at least not a lot of them. Personally I just don't really care, shitposters are obvious and if someone actually explains why they didn't like it I respect their opinion. Just wait until some other older retro game reaches "cult-classic", even though Earthbound is decently popular, and then people will eventally hate on that.
>>3066782
You're too late OP, EarthBound already made the wraparound from hipster bullshit to great game that only hipsters hate.
Shitposting aside, this isn't really anything new. The atmosphere, story, and music are brought up in every single EarthBound debate, and while you made some points about the gameplay (rolling HP and no random encounters), your main idea was that "well it's just like any other JRPG", which is of course a logical fallacy. I love EarthBound and would easily put it in my top ten favorite games, but I'm not going to say that the gameplay was anything special. Regardless, it's good that people are finally explaining their opinions on /vr/, we could use more of this.
Honestly I'm tired of people saying the atmosphere / story / world are the only merits on which EarthBound stands, and acting like it's not actually good gameplay-wise. EarthBound's gameplay is actually pretty damn novel due to the rolling meters and other factors which you discussed in >>3066790 It especially bugs me because a lot of people I've heard criticize EarthBound's gameplay have, in the same breath, called it "too hard" / "grindy" / "dated" etc. It's obvious to me that these people haven't played many (if any) RPGs made before 2000 and don't understand how an RPG is supposed to work.
EarthBound is very, very easy. It was deliberately designed to be a game that kids and women could play. Having to fight a couple battles at the beginning of the game to stock up on money and EXP to beat Frank does not make EarthBound "impossibly dated and grindy". If you can't fight a small handful of battles every once and a while then you are not the demographic for an RPG.
Mother 1 would be an example of a game that actually is too damn grindy at points - but even then, that's only because it was (I shit you not) not even playtested.
Anyway, if I can take a second to sing the praises of EarthBound's world / atmosphere which I just got done saying have been talked about to death, I really like how in this game you start out visiting towns that are so close together they are named after sequential numbers, then you get to Fourside and you're suddenly in a more urban environment. The new perspective used for this area really drives it home that the world has opened up. Then, you're crossing the ocean and visiting whole different countries, many of which you have already seen (thanks to the solo sections where you play as Jeff and Poo) but just assumed you would never be visiting again. It really gives a sense of scale to the world and shows, piece by piece, how far your adventure takes you. Idk if everyone feels this way but I think that's pretty damn special.
>>3067081
>which is of course a logical fallacy
What the fuck does this even mean? Fucking meaningless buzzword.
People like OP are the main reason why most people don't want to admit to liking Earthbound anymore.
Played it eons ago. I found the combat dull for an RPG, the characters unrelateable, and the writing hamfisted. It was a boring slog, so I gave up.
>>3067237
Tell me about it, just when I am reading all that nonsense in >>3067093, >>3066908>>3066837
I am not sure if those are really different people or just OP samefagging. I also can't stand their arrogant hypocrisy, having an air while basically telling others "this game is better but you guys just don't understand it, we know better". God, you really have no idea how EB is regarded outside your fanbase circlejerking don't you? You should look around some more so you can see not everyone necessarily likes this game as much as you do. Oh wait, you can't do that because everyone who's got a different opinion than yours must be shitposting, right?
And you guys keep wondering why others disregard you ...
>>3067272
Cynical jags on 4chan are the only people who really give a shit either way about the fan base.
>>3067272
Who exactly besides edgy memesters or contrarians really cares about the game or its fanbase. Sure some people don't like it but who in particular hates it so goddam much?
>>3067272
I'm >>3066908 , what about my comment is nonsense?
>>3067095
I forget the name of the actual fallacy, but it goes like this. Just because EarthBound's gameplay is comparatively good when contrasted with other JRPGs, doesn't mean that the gameplay is good. It's like saying that Panama City is cold because it's the coldest city in Panama (probably not true, but assume it is for the sake of argument), when it's actually pretty warm compared to the rest of the world.
Sorry for trying to sound like a pseudo-intellectual douche, that was just the first thing that popped into my head.
>>3067095
>what the hell are logical fallacies
the highschool drop-outs are so easily exposed.
>>3067516
>calling something a logical fallacy is a valid form of argument
likewise the wikipedia-educated millennial
>Essay length rant defending the game
This is why I will hate it. Because people like you can't handle someone not liking what you like and hilariously and austistically defend it. Free entertainment. It's funny to watch you defend something so I significant.
It's the exact same shit as FF9, where it was popular for a while then the popular games cycle swayed and it became cool to hate on it. Give it a couple years, people will suddenly rediscover how good it is.
>>3066782
Yeah, the game's got atmosphere, but it's kinda boring at times and really the gameplay is nothing special. That being said, in retrospect I'm glad I played it. It was memorable. I just have no desire to play it again.
>>3067987
the hipsters, they are the true death of all good things.
I remember Nintendo Power shilling the hell out of this game when I was younger. I had finally figured out NP was just an advertisement vehicle for Nintendo products so that didnt help Earthbound's case. I got a look at it and the NES-tier graphics and present day setting didnt do anything for me either when there were other better RPGs(my opinion at the time) out there to play.
The final nail for me was when it came out retail in that big box packed with the guidebook. To me at the time it screamed out "this is some baby shit, steer clear" so I never gave the game a chance.
I may pick it up later on and give it a fair shake.
>>3068056
Check it out it's a dead accurate summary of why nobody bought Earthbound when it was new.
>>3066782
I love everything about this game's atmosphere but I watched a longplay instead of actually playing it the gameplay is so bad. (AND most RPGs for that matter)
>>3068236
There's a fundamental problem with people who watch LPs of games instead of experiencing them themselves. It's that you don't get the feeling of how the game works.
The appeal of any (relatively) early JRPG is watching your character grow. If you're not playing the game, it's not your character, therefore you won't care about his/her growth.
What I want to ask you is; how can you say the gameplay (a compound word made of GAME and PLAY) is bad when you've never PLAYED the GAME?
You'd probably like RPGs in general more if you actually had the experience of playing them.
>>3068250
I played half of it and couldn't handle it. It was so tedious, I picked up from a longplay and cranked the speed up a bit. I can't stand grinding, especially when there's not even fun combat or anything like dark souls.
>>3068257
Maybe you'd like something more hands-on like Chrono-Trigger or Mother 3 since you liked EB's atmosphere. Chrono Trigger has much more in-depth combat and Mother 3 has a built in rhythm minigame in the battle systems.
>>3068257
>grinding
>in EB
>>3066785
>The music is fantastic
The only point I'd disagree on.
I get that the music is heavily influenced (all but plagarized) from some all time classics, and that's actually pretty neat to find in a SNES rpg, but I don't really like its arrangement. Heck, last time I played, I substituted it for a score from another SNES game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ODKKILZiYY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jbJSftFr20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzELBO_3HzE
>>3068056
>NES-tier graphics
I always hear people say this. But the difference between NES and Earthbound is miles away. Compare screenshots of Mother and Earthbound. Earthbound's sprites have way more colour than the NES could handle, and the battle backgrounds would have been impossible on the NES. For a late SNES game the graphics are fairly simplistic, but it looks a hell of a lot better than, say, Final Fantasy IV.
>>3068257
How bad do you have to be at Earthbound to need to grind? I literally couldn't be underpowered if I tried.
>>3067272
I'm >>3066837
I only mentioned that people compare it unfairly. Whether it be to any other RPG and immediately saying "SEE!? THIS OTHER RPG IS BETTER." and no specifics about it, or when people say "NOT THE BEST SNES GAME! THEREFORE ITS SHIT". That is what I hate. I hate this when anyone does this for any game.
I don't know how it came across I'm hypocritical or arrogant or big into EB circlejerking. I don't know how what I said translates into me thinking a different opinion equals shitposting. It's this type of jumping to conclusion that makes me feel like many EB "critics" don't have many legitimate points.
one thing I can say right off the bat on negative points on Earthbound, on most everyone's playthrough the jump back in time at the end catches everyone off guard and without the right supplies, that's something I've always thought was kind of annoying.
>>3066782
>appeals to everyone on some level.
Not me
>I'd best compare it to JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
Oh, so you're one of those JoJo newfags, just because it's the "new" cool thing you can't compare everything to it, Earthbound and JoJo are completely different and have nothing in common.
>The music is fantastic.
Opinions
>It forces the player to make split second decisions.
Oh please, as if there's anything in the game that forces to make split second decisions, the game is easy.
>and arguable makes the fights more 'real time' than the FF series' ATB system.
It doesn't, it's still turn based, just like the ATB system.
>People need to stop pretending that SNES RPGs were the paragons of good gameplay.
And you need to stop pretending you know shit about the genre and the SNES library because I'm sure as hell you've never played stuff like Bounty Sword, Metal Max 2, Dark Law or any SaGa game.
>EarthBound cuts out all the fluff, but also greatly improves the shitty conventions of the genre.
And why should I believe you when you don't know anything about the genre besides the few localized, butchered games you've played?
Especially when everything Earthbound did besides the rolling HP meter was already done by other games before it, and arguably much better?
Look, nobody gives a shit about what games you like, if you didn't understand what people don't like is morons like you who barge in with no knowledge of what they're talking about and make sermons about their own hurt feelings and made up arguments telling others they're wrong, to be less cryptic, Earthbound was never the problem, YOU are the problem.
You like Earthbound? That's fine.
You like how the game feels? That's great, the designers did a great job.
You're telling me Earthbound is mechanically or technically better than most RPGs on the SNES? Based on minuscule knowledge of the genre or library? You're just a tryhard moron.
>>3068626
>And you need to stop pretending you know shit about the genre and the SNES library because I'm sure as hell you've never played stuff like Bounty Sword, Metal Max 2, Dark Law or any SaGa game.
OP is countering the fact that so many people say Earthbound's gameplay sucks while comparing it to games like Final Fantasy VI. Maybe the games you've mentioned do do gameplay right, but the general masses, even on /vr/, don't give those games a second thought. They criticise Earthbound's gameplay while comparing it to other extremely popular JRPGs, where the gameplay isn't really any better. Most of the popular JRPGs on the SNES have great atmosphere, great music, completely shit gameplay, and Earthbound is no exception, but it doesn't deserve to be criticised the way it does while nobody complains about FFVI.
>>3068632
For the record, I'm not hating on FFVI here either. Earthbound and FFVI are two of my favourite games, but their gameplay doesn't do them any favours.
>>3068632
>but the general masses, even on /vr/, don't give those games a second thought.
And why the hell should I, you or him give a shit about what the general masses say? Should I ponder over myself eating well made, healthy food because the general masses love fast food garbage?
The general masses are IGNORANT by definition, their opinion is irrelevant, and so is OP's given his non existent culture about the genre.
>but it doesn't deserve to be criticised the way it does while nobody complains about FFVI.
A lot of people complain about FFVI, just like they complain about FFVII, FFVIII, FFII, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross and whatever other game you pick, there will always be people who complain about games, for good or questionable reasons.
If you're irritated by the fact that there are more people who like DQ, CT or FF than people who like Earthbound that's you own problem, you could say that a game's popularity is proportional to the lowest common denominator in terms of overall quality, you can say that those games are mediocre compared to others, sometimes you might even have a point, but at the end of the day you're not changing the status quo, it's largely just a matter of taste, knowledge and opinions.
Those games do have some qualities as well, especially since they're so successful, I grew tired of FF forced melodrama and I once thought they were the best RPGs ever, once I actually played other games my tastes changed and I reconsidered a lot of what I thought back then, I too get irritated by the countless threads on why CT, FFVII or EB are the best RPGs ever, because I played much better games, but you just can't come in here and try to justify "undeserved" negative criticism using your own feelings for the game and showing that you actually don't know shit about RPGs, you just can't do that, you might convince people as ignorant as you are but you just piss off people who don't have anything against EB but see your pretentious claims.
I'm borrowing a bit from James Joyce here, but I define art as something that illuminates the inexplicable, and porn as that which solicits the desire to posses, be it ownership or wanting to "become" the piece. Simply put, Earthbound is one of the very few games I've played that has done the former for me. To be fair though, I think whether a piece falls into either category depends on the the experience of the consumer, but at the same time pieces usually favor one side or the other. I think romantic people are more likely to get an artistic experience from Earthbound.
Earthbound was shit.
>far too linear for a role-playing game
>bad graphics/animation for late-SNES
>NPC's with Family Guy-tier humour
>generic story that's been done to death
>no character development in your party
>cookie-cutter worlds lacked atmosphere
>unoriginal controls and game design
>music that plagiarizes other songs
Play a good RPG instead, like Fallout 2 or Ultima IV.
>>3070005
>good RPG
>Fallout 2
>>3070007
fall2 is great don't shit on it
people who love 1 too much might not like it though it kinda ruined the wild west feeling with too much cities and politics and people. 1 was more memorable at everything but besides that more guns more perks more everything without really fucking it up much you can't really complain about that ffs
>>3070028
I think both are pretty shitty.
>>3070062
well ok then you just don't like em nothing I can say to that your loss imo
>>3066908
that is 100% a drawing of a vagina with teeth
>>3068275
>all but plagiarized
do go on
>>3070005
>Ultima IV
>Good RPG
Any PC RPG from before mice is unplayable.
>>3066782
>The pacing of the game is great
It's painfully slow, even if you despawn enemies. It's only tolerable with heavy use of emulator fastforward.
>>3070145
The game is like 20 hours long.
You're just a gen Z fucker with short attention span. Probably never played any 80s RPG.
>>3070005
You have never played Earthbound. Go back to /v/, they love talking shit about games they've never played over there.
>>3070146
>The game is like 20 hours long.
And there's only about 5 hours worth of content.
>>3070146
I don't think you know what pacing means. If a game forces you to grind or drags on for no real reason other than terrible balance, then it's bad pacing because you hit a brick wall in your progress that can only be surmounted by doing repetitive shit over and over.
>>3068275
I'd like to see some evidence of this supposed plagiarism.
Also, Plok had some game good music. Pity the game is so underwhelming.
>>3070187
I'm curious, what are some JRPGs from the era that had good pacing? I mean, it seems like they were basically all afflicted by grindiness to some extent. At the very least, Earthbound has no random battles and allows you to dodge the enemies pretty frequently if you want to. Compare that to something like Breath of Fire 1 and 2, where you get a battle every 3 steps, and it really doesn't seem so bad in comparison.
>>3070156
Why you mad tho dawg?
>>3070187
>earthbound
>grind
My god.
>>3070187
Good thing you never grind in Earthbound other then againest the sharks for Frank for maybe five minutes. Earthbound is piss easy, you're a moron if you need to grind.
>>3070189
Earthbound used sampling in quite a few of it's tracks, sampling is definitely not the same as plagiarizing.
>>3069979
>but I define art
irrelevant since video games aren't art
>>3070198
It annoys me when people say you can avoid the enemies in Earthbound and Chrono Trigger. In EB, 99% of the enemies are faster than you and you're only delaying the inevitable, and in CT a good 50% of the fights are scripted and you're stuck doing them no matter what.
Then again, every time somebody complains about random encounters in JRPGs, their opinion is automatically invalidated.
>>3070226
Where did I say Earthbound, faggot? Nobody said earthbound until you did.
>>3070323
Chrono Trigger's encounters are largely scripted, that is true. But there are still ways of avoiding the enemies in Earthbound, like getting to a door before they get you. And don't forget that, if you're backtracking, you'll automatically kill significantly weaker enemies when you run into them. And in a psychological way, it's just less frustrating when you can actually see the enemies coming at you on screen instead of being assaulted out of nowhere.
>Then again, every time somebody complains about random encounters in JRPGs, their opinion is automatically invalidated.
You might actually be a masochist. I bet your domme makes you sit there playing Breath of Fire for hours while she puts out cigarettes on your cock.
>>3066782
As a huge Earthbound pusher, I'd actually hone your statements regarding the overstaying dungeons.
If you are not playing with the guide, Peaceful Rest Valley is not a 10 minute endeavor. The Dept Store would push 10 mins. as well - unless you're the type that likes to grind early and overpower later. (takes the fun out imo).
That's all I can say against this rant, really.
>>3068275
Not all of it is Grammy winning. But it IS fantastically varied. Many of the sound effects are pleasant to listen to and hear as well.
>>3068626
"it forces the player.."
It's true. If you're gutsy and explore without leveling, you'll get fucked up.
>>3070349
Depends entirely on how the random encounters are handled.
God Tier: Dead-end rooms that guarantee an encounter, low encounter rate otherwise.
High Tier: 4d6+20 steps until the next encounter
FUCK YOU Tier: 4% chance of encounter per step.
at the end of the day earthbound is one of those games that people either "get" or don't "get." with digital distribution more people will be exposed to the title, but many will ultimately not "get" the title. chalk it up to differing tastes in game titles nowadays. perhaps many gamers do view earthbound through nostalgia tinted goggles, but it is one of the best games to be released on the SNES.
>>3068539
Hell, I'd say Earthbound beats the more detailed late SNES games in certain areas. EB has far more unique sprites for NPCs than FFVI, for instance.
