When did you grow out of savescumming?
How the fuck is this /vr/ related?
>>3073908
>How is a common feature in every single vidya emulator /vr/ related?
I actually grew into save scumming thanks to Zelda II.
They literally start you at the beginning of the game. Every. time.
several years ago
but if a game starts really pissing me off and i get stuck on a level for hours/days then i say fuck it and scum that part if i really wanna beat the game just to see the rest of it
>>3073958
I just started playing it. I'm really tempted to use saves, but it's kind of fun seeing how far you can get after a new level up and some practice.
There's literally nothing wrong with savestates when you use them as an alternative to some long ass password I don't have the patience anymore to deal with.
>>3073986
it's fine only to use as a "leave my system on all day because i don't want to lose my progress" kind of way
![Xak_1_and_2_(NTSC-J)_[TJCD2032]-0025.png](https://i.imgur.com/pTenZJG.png "Xak_1_and_2_(NTSC-J)_[TJCD2032]-0025.png")
Never. I will still use saves when I feel like it. I don't have to prove myself to anybody.
Recently I played Xak 2 and there was a platforming part where you constantly fell to your death, so I saved before every jump.
Another time was when harpies were constantly pushing you into deadly holes.
>>3073903
i only use savestates when games get hard
I never grew out of them. I still use save-states quite regularly to practice for speedruns. I'd never use them in a full playthrough though, obviously.
>>3073903
I still save scum, but I rarely do it when playing with a controller or on my TV.
Turbo button on the other hand is a big issue for me. It's the only way I can play PS1 games, but there is no PS1 emulator (other than Mednafen) where you can hotkey the turbo button on a controller.
>>3073921
how is emulation /vr/ related? I don't even use a modern screen to play games so it renders properly.
You can't survive X-COM without that, especially TFTD. Some autist on /vr/ got butthurt that I said I did it on TFTD, but ha ha, yeah right. When he can beat an alien colony on Superhuman without reloading, get back to me.
>>3073903
Since I softmodded my wii, and controls became no longer an issue.
Never used them, only time I justify it is if you're playing something you can't in and use them as a save point.
>>3074054
I've completed both UFO and TFTD on ironman superhuman (in OpenXCOM, so real superhuman not bugged beginner). The games are not really all that difficult when you know what you're doing. You would probably call my play style "cheap", because I'm always focused on minimizing risk. If that means camping or retreating without completing the mission that's what I'll do.
>beat an alien colony on Superhuman
Why would you do that? Grab the commander and get out. Colonies are far too dangerous to clear. You're doing the geoscape side of the game wrong if the score penalty is a problem.
>>3074427
>Why would you do that?
Probably because he could.
I use them when I need to pee and there's no pause option.
>>3074432
With savestates, so it doesn't count.
Shame on me, when I was an underage who still used ZSNES and GENS I used it all the time.
>>3074427
>Why would you do that? Grab the commander and get out. Colonies are far too dangerous to clear
I usually don't clear the inner colony. I just bum rush the command center, blow it up, and run. I do like to clear the outer colony so I can bring home some loot to sell and replenish my ammo stocks.
The outer colony is the big headache b/c mind control. You're ok once you beat that part because there's just Lobstermen and they can't use psionics.
Hell yes I use fucking save states. I don't have time anymore to start that shit over these days.
never
I swear Douk 3D must be one of the hardest games ever made and beating it without saving at leas a few times is fucking insane. I've been playing this game since it was released.
I never used save states in emulators. I only savescum if the game allows it, so mainly in PC games.
>>3073908
Autism speaks!
I mastered the art of quicksaving and quickloading to make flawless runs of every emulated game I played, saving right before every enemy or important decision, often multiple times.
I only stopped when my quickload button broke. I took it as a sign that the gods were angry with me.
>>3073903
Never. I hardy even bother with in game saves in emulators.
>>3073953
So show yourself the door kid who's too new to say vidya
>>3073903
When I realized it made Fire Emblem not fun.
Now I only use it forpracticing speedrun tricks.
I once used hundreds of thousands of savestates just to complete a single playthrough of a game so easy children could do it.
>>3073903
I only do excessive saves when I
- want to make a snapshot of a level I like to play often, but is a chore to get to
- making some kind of guide or testing what happens if certain conditions are met
- playing RPGs that have dickbag conditions like 1% random drop or steal rate. Fuck you, I'm not going to re-play some gimmicky boss fight + watch the long-ass unskippable cutscene before & after it a hundred times over.
For other games, I don't need them anyway.
>>3073903
Never, but I haven't used savestates in about 10 years. I'll savescum if the game itself allows for it, but not otherwise.
http://strawpoll.me/7130974
what is the moral to the story of humankind
>>3074485
Basically
![[Shitposting Loudly].gif](https://i.imgur.com/2MZC0q1.gif "[Shitposting Loudly].gif")
>>3073903
Never because i'm not an elitist faglord that thinks pro cred counts for jack shit.
>>3073903
I usually use them between sessions.
I don't really enjoy games when I rush through them. I'd rather watch a video of someone playing it well in that case.
I will save scum if a game is really stingy with lives and continues, but I'll save at the beginning of the level.
>>3077056
sounds liek a skrub ta me
>>3073903
I never did. I always savescum for RPG games when I'm going in blind. Notable examples are any infinity engine game ever fucking made.
>>3077056
same. me
>>3073903
NEVER
I didn't grow out of it, I grew into it.
I'm not 14 anymore. I can't spend 8 hours a day every day for a whole summer retrying the same level from the start until I master the whole damn thing. I just don't have that kind of free time anymore.
>>3073903
Never, I only time ive used them is when normal saves dont work, or on games like megaman, usually on the password screen.
>>3073903
Only time I ever save scummed was on the Grim Reaper boss in Castlevania 3 just because I played that boring level over 200 times trying to beat that fucking retardedly hard boss.
Most of this thread should just go that extra inch and simply watch long plays on YouTube instead of pretend playing the games via save scumming. Though at least it's obvious why modern games turned garbage with no difficulty and auto checkpoints every turn.
I use save states when I want to see if the game is cheating on MAME, otherwise I don't bother.
>>3077602
this exactly. save states make my retro gaming much more productive. no shame, don't care.
>>3077672
Because I don't want to input 30 letter passwords with Dakuten?
>>3077672
You only play shitty games anon.
On easy mode.
With the wiki open in another tab.
>>3077784
If you're emulating, why aren't you playing a rom version that has direct save support?
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2482/
>>3077819
Because I wanted to play it without translation.
>>3074018
/Thread
I save state because I'm afraid of crashes. It happened recently :(
>>3073958
You wouldn't last playing rogue likes then. You get one life, that's it.
I don't get why people savescum. If you want to/have to cheat that's what game cheats are for. They will give you unlimited continues or whatever you want. Using them for starting at the start of the level is one thing, but you see people on youtube using them for every hard part in the game and then "rewinding" when they don't get it. That's not "saving time" that's just NOT PLAYING THE GAME! You don't GET 30 chances in a row at doing it, you get one chance and you better make it count, otherwise you have to start again, that's the whole bloody point.
>>3077871
Doing shit over and over isn't "playing the game".
>>3077872
Yes it is. It's what you're supposed to do, what the designers intended. You get faster at those parts and make sure you don't make the slightest mistake. Then it builds up tension to the difficult part. You can't tell me you think using a five second save state is literally playing much less beating a videogame?
>>3074018
I completely agree. I'm 35 now, with a wife and a child. I simply do not have hours and hours to burn on any game, much less one that punishes me until I've memorized every step. I use savestates religiously so that I can actually complete a game in a reasonable amount of time. It's a sad fact but between all of my other responsibilities I just don't have time to really complete a classic "hardcore" game the way I used to (and the way it was intended).
>>3077893
Yeah, I'm sure having to watch unskippable cut-scenes before every bastard hard boss is also what the developers intended as well.
>>3077905
99% of humanity feels like you so don't worry. ain't nobody got time for this nowadays and its perfectly understandable. it's 2016 and not 1988 were time was a common good.
>>3077927
I'm not a crybaby and I'm not angry. I'm just saying it how it is. If you want to butcher these games and play the fool that's up to you. And to the other guy I clearly was not talking about cutscenes, I was talking about normal 2d games.
I'm surprised anyone could have a problem with what I said. I mean it's just obvious that if you're going to savescum with zero penalty then depending what you do can ruin the game, what sort of retard could argue with that?
>>3077893
> giving a shit about how someone else wants you to play a video game
Save states remove all the challenge from any game.
It doesn't matter how difficult it is, you can repeat the same jump over and over again, or dodge everything and have a fake pristine run.
You'll feel empty when you finish the game and you won't know why.
>save states
Only when I need to go someplace else and there's no save point nearby.
>>3077952
Who the hell said I give a shit? I read and comment on many things every day. I was saying it as a truism, like as an obvious fact, that you're not playing it how it was intended. I never intended that someone could actual discuss or debate the idea that savescumming is how the game is intended to be played. It's like fast forwarding a movie through non-dialogue. What's annoying is if you say a game is easy after doing that, you can't have an opinion on difficulty after savescumming.
>>3077989
>Who the hell said I give a shit?
Literally you.
I've never been a save scummer to become with.
I've only used them to create save points when I want to stop playing.
>>3073903
Playing Age of Empires.
I used to save scum alot, so I beat all the single player campaigns and I thought I was good at the game.
Then I played online and got my ass kicked.
>>3077991
So why did you say it if you don't expect people to care even the tiniest bit? People say things and others make a comment, that's how the internet works.
>>3078009
>So why did you say
First post, mate.
>People say things and others make a comment, that's how the internet works.
People make a comment when they care enough to commentor just rabidly shitpost.
>>3077938
>I'm just saying it how it is.
you are just stating your opinion.
kek, the ego of some
> what sort of retard could argue with that?
you are arguing with yourself because no one gives a damn how you play your games. kek
>>3077989
>Who the hell said I give a shit?
>i'm not an angry crybaby
hmmm...
>I was saying it as a truism
>I was stating my opinion through my perspective and thought my projected world view applies to all
okay...
>>3077957
that is a lie or rather a generalization. i played battletoads with save states every 5 seconds and i had the time of my life. never experienced such a fun and challenging game. i felt an adrenaline rush playing and finishing this game even though i save stated every 5 seconds. how do you explain yourself that? it doesn't fit your two-dimensional world view and the agenda you try to push.... so what you gonna do?
>>3078086
>finishing this game
You didn't finish the game
>>3073903
Other way around actually.
I got a job and shit to do. I don't have time to replay a game over and over anymore.
>>3078112
lololol do you think I care about what you think
>>3078134
You obviously do.
>>3078146
no if cared i would defend my argument but i don't fuel the trolls, i only make them angry. i hope they explode in anger so I can kek here on the other of the screen
>>3078163
>i
>trolls
>kek
>>3077957
>You'll feel empty when you finish the game
But I don't.
That only happens when a story (be it books or games) is so interesting/enthralling to me that I want more.
i felt empty after finishing crash bandicoot because it sucks.
>>3078194
Same thing happened to me when I finished Mario 64. What a complete waste.
I stopped using save states around the same time i stopped emulating all together.
>>3078196
i didnt even finish sm64 because i find it boring, i like smb1 way more. i also dislike smw. but i dislike crash bandicoot more honestly,
>>3078212
For me it was the other way around. I stopped using the real consoles and started emulating and save stating,
>>3078217
Okay anon
>Running through game
>Not using ingame saves at all, just using savestates
>accidentally savestate a millisecond before an unavoidable death
>have to start the entire game over
>>3078249
That's why you use incremental saves.
>>3074018
What's the point of this? You don't have to "prove" yourself to anybody, you just have to have fun. Where's the fun in savestates? Why not watch a video of a TAS and be done with it, then?
>>3078652
If he has fun playing with save states he doesn't have to prove it to exactly people like you.
why should he watch a video if he has fun playing it himself? that doesn't make sense. you are obviously butthurt because your gaming-cock isn't being validated. reverse psychology says you try to prove and validate yourself - that's why you talk the way you do. memewhile normal people just enjoy their games with and without save states - they don't care about the stuff that you do because they don't have mental disfunctions.
>>3074812
I haven't grown out of it.
I had used save states instead of the in game status. And since I didn't label them before hand, I had gotten lost in where I was. It's stopped me from Finishing FF6 before since I played it like a confused dumbass.
>>3078664
Why are you so mad?
>>3078652
I like to play at my own pace.
Having to replay the same boring sections I've already mastered just to get back to the point that's giving me trouble or having to hoop through extra loops of archaic save systems isn't fun.
In Suikoden2 I savescum at the Headquarters Restaurant entrance just before the cooking contest. Its more convenient than having to run all the way to 4th floor just to save. Sometimes its all about playing smarter, not harder
>>3078998
>Sometimes its all about playing smarter, not harder
>smarter
lol, do you really think people who don't savescum don't know they could beat it faster if they cheated like you're doing?
That's like saying fast forwarding through a movie where there's no dialogue is "smarter". You're damaging what the director tried to do. Sometimes it's about being dumber, namely you.
>>3079030
Savescumming isn't skipping parts of the game though.
>>3079094
It does if it absolves you of the negative impacts from decisions, such as branching games like RPGs.
>>3079129
>It does if it absolves you of the negative impacts from decisions, such as branching games like RPGs.
Are you arguing against normal saves in games?
How is the ability to save before decisions going to prevent me from trying out every route?
>>3078664
> you are obviously butthurt
No, I'm not. In fact you're the one that sounds mad, as pointed out by >>3078704
When you use savestates, you're opting out of a game. I understand your desire to see the story to its conclusion or whatever, that's why I suggested TAS videos. I don't see the fun or the point in using savestates other than to see a game to its conclusion, to the detriment of my own fun.
It's like if you could play chess, but you liked to arrange only the white pieces and move them around the board instead. No game, just moving around pieces for "your own fun".
>>3073903
When I started using flash carts.
>>3078221
For me, I use to always use emulations and ROMs because I didn't own many retro consoles. Once I really started collecting retro games, i stopped using emulators so that I would actually be motivated to buy the games.
>>3079165
>I don't see the fun
That's your problem. You != Everyone else.
I use save states, but I don't really 'save scum' very often.
-I often save state when I turn off an emulator, just because I want to make sure I don't lose progress.
-Before boss battles if there's a long cutscene beforehand, particularly if you can't skip it. Nothing 'fun' or 'challenging' about being forced to idle for two minutes.
-In platforming sections (or action sections in general) I don't want to bother learning. I like platformers in general, and I like there to be a challenge, but there really are some sections which are not so much 'challenging' as they are 'tedious'. I can't think right away of a platformer where I've had to do this, but the Turbo Tunnels in Battletoads is a pretty decent example. I like the game, but learning to do that section just seems like a huge waste of time to me. I might've tried when I was younger, though, but today it feels pointless.
-At dialogue choices that might influence the plot in a significant way.
>>3079231
you must be rich. i have no money to buy games lol.
I stopped save scumming when I realized how much of an adverse effect it had on my gaming experiences; by turning the whole process into a tedious meta game. I also realized, after playing a bunch of games that only had checkpoints; how the experience was more thrilling to play, and more fulfilling to beat.
This isn't some gamer cred shit or anything, I'm just saying not all games benefit from a save anywhere feature, and developers need to consider how their save systems fit into the flow of the game.
do you consider "fair" if I use save states to learn how to beat a specific part of the game (e.g. a boss that you can only fight after completing a whole stage) and then beat the game without save states?
that's what I usually do
>>3073903
Opposite. I grew INTO savescumming. Too many other things to do than replay levels over and over.
>>3073958
There are shortcuts that open up throughout the game to make going back through the overworld extremely quick... don't tell me you went through the Death Mountain route over and over again?
>>3073903
One day I went to start up some JRPG I'd played for 50 hours and hit save state on the title screen instead of load state. Haven't fucked with save states since.
>>3080187
yeah that's fair. that would be the equivalent of using a game genie infinite lives code to get better at the later parts of the game, and then starting over and beating the game legit.
I've always used savestates, but I don't consider myself a savescummer. I use savestates out of convenience and to insert checkpoints. they can make games better as long as they're not abused.
>>3078652
>You don't have to "prove" yourself to anybody, you just have to have fun.
>Where's the fun in savestates?
Are you stupid or mentally challenged? If he likes having fun this way let him do it it
>have fun however you want to but just not any way i don't
>>3080518
Stop telling him how to post, you fucking hypocrite. If that's his way of having fun, then let him do it.
>>3080518
A person can have fun repeatedly throwing a game at a wall instead of the way it was intended to be played. It wouldn't change their being a retard or you for that matter for defending it.
My friend had a game genie so I stopped hanging out with him, I was very against it.
>>3080565
You sound like a really fun guy to be around.
>>3079914
Not even close, I just spend about $20-30 on video games every 2 weeks. Most of my collection came from when I was still in school, so I didn't have to worry about paying for my oven food/shelter/utilities.
I used to until I realized how power ups, consumables, lives, etc. are supposed to work. You have to evaluate risk and choose the appropriate time to use what you have available. Getting more lives also means finding more secrets to find those lives. Devs don't just want people to bumrush through a game, they want them to play it well enough that they succeed with limited resources. Players are rewarded for taking things slower and exploring the game more, which is what devs want you to do. When they create a tricky jump or seemingly impossible section, they want you to apply yourself and learn how to get past it. Savescumming is playing a game but it's not engaging a game, it feels lifeless personally.
>>3080338
Pretty much this. Big part of the reason I switched to emulating once it was decent. There are lots of arcade style games I never really liked normally but do enjoy playing with saves.
I hate the repetition of playing a level over and over until I can clear it in one go. And there's nothing worse than getting good at most of a level but then stuck on a boss or tricky section and having to replay the whole damn level again every time I die.
Ghouls n Ghosts is a perfect example. It's a lot more fun to me as something I can pick up and play for five minutes. Sometimes I make it a distance, sometimes I die a few times on a bit before I figure it out and get past. Then save and the next time I pick it up there's another new five or however many minutes of game to play through. To me that's way more fun than playing from level 1 every time I start. Also playing in your underwear is fun.
If I really, really like a game though then I'll go through it more than once or play sections I like a lot. Most are just once through and done and that's only if I like them the whole way.
>>3080530
autism intensifies.
ego inflates online deflates irl
>>3080527
autist don't have fun
>>3080795
You are messed up in the head.
People who want to play a game properly are not autists.
Kill yourself.
>>3080805
Ahh, but people who insist their way is the only right one and concern themselves with how other people decide to play with toys is a real sign of autism.
Never.
Only got worse as I grew up probably.
Well my computer broke for like a month once and once i started playing emulators again i forgot save states existed so i just didnt do it... Eventually i remembered they were there but i only use them if im feeling lazy or if im testing a rom hack.
>>3080824
THIS.
/thread
>>3073903
About 5 years ago.
I will use it occasionally to see the ending of exceptionally hard games though.For reviews on my youtube channel
If I grew out of anything it's the idiotic notion that there's honor in video games
>>3080936
B-b-b-but if I get a 1cc I'm still special!
If this thread is any indication, almost all of /vr/ is terrible at retro games and need this handicap. No wonder there's so much crapping on people who play on real game carts.
>>3081102
> Needs this handicap...
Do you know why modern games have checkpoints and save states? It's because forcing a player to re-do a section of the game (or the entire thing) repeatedly for dying isn't a very fun mechanic.
Also, sometimes you don't feel like sitting down for 2 hours to go through an entire game start to finish. Many retro games circumvent this with 'secret' ways to skip levels. I put secret in quotes because they were also used as marketing ploys to buy the next version of Nintendo Power or GamePro.
>>3081285
Being immune to mistakes or poor decision making in a game can be described as nothing less than cheating. Lives, continues, even your health level is pointless to try and manage if you can save at any second. At least checkpoints, as lame as they are, don't happen several times in a fight.
>>3081285
>"fuck this part is hard!"
>quicksave
>quickload
>quicksave
>quickload
>quicksave
>quickload
>quicksave
>quickload
>"fuck, finally got that out of the way!"
>"damn, I'm good at games. this is so fun."
>>3081285
Well sometimes it is a fun mechanic. Sometimes people like to run through the original part and do find that a fun mechanic, and dislike the constant savestating on modern games. Also if you ever get into an argument or want to write a review on it, you need to consider how you played it. For example if someone found a game frustrating and you disagree with that. Also I'd interpret "savescumming" as gratuitous stuff, like every couple of seconds. You're doing *something* there and it might be interesting, but you're not playing the game.
I think most people who beat battletoads would just start at the start of a level, like infinite continues that way.
>>3073903
does savescumming pertain only to using save states?
i thought it was just saving right before every battle or something along those lines
i'm guilty of both, btw
>>3081336
Any excessive reloading until you get optimum results is save scumming.
Constantly saving alone doesn't count since it could just be precaution against crashes and the like.
>>3081285
I dunno... Ghosts n goblins is still really fun to me and i both dont savescum and die a shit ton... It just feels more rewarding to overcome a challenge that big without the convenience... Its like climbing a mountain, yeah you really didnt accomplish much but you did something most people who prefer the creature comforts of taking the easy route wouldnt dare to do.
>>3081342
There's a difference between "saving" and "mashing quicksave/quickload until you get through the hard part without dying."
>had the time of your life playing a game with infinite retries, no punishments and no stakes whatsoever
Sounds like the autist here is you.
>>3081440
since when is having the time of your life autism? kek
Why is quicksaving/quickloading allowed in PC game speedruns?
>>3081312
This
If you save state your way through the game, you're not playing it. Your fun is clearly from seeing the graphics, hearing the music, and viewing the story. At that point, just watch YouTube longplays.
If you feel like you're really playing when you cheat that hard, you're comparable to the delusion that "playing on a game real cart feels better than on a flash cart'. It's just placebo, as game challenge, mechanics, and meaningful decision making is what defines a game from passive media.
Here's a story of a person I know who hates savescumming:
>Him: playing Chrono Cross gaea's navel stage
>Boss: Come hither...
>Him: whoops there's a boss! time to backtrack and save first
>Boss: I SAID COME HITHER!
>Boss: Now for lunch!
>Him: oh fuuuuuuuuuu
>>3079129
>It does if it absolves you
>absolve
Are you a priest IRL?
I'm 34 and still beat NES games on the original hardware as god intended. Try exercising and not throwing your private life away by getting married. You'll have the time and energy to enjoy life AND get good.
>>3082678
What about all those games that don't have videos available?
>>3081440
You're still missing that there might be people just plain enjoy the games better that way. You can think that's lame all you want, but in the end these things are toys. And there's nothing more lame (not to mention autistic) than getting upset over how someone else is playing with a toy.
>>3073903
I never really got "into" savescumming, I was never a big fan of emulation. I had all these friends that were bragging to me about how they beat Zelda 2 and Lost Levels, and then they admitted they did it on an emulator with savestates.
Especially now since cobbling together my retro game station, now I can't use savestates. It's just me and the game, as nature intended.
>>3077602
>I just don't have that kind of free time anymore.
I hate that this is the fucking truth.
>>3073903
Never had this problem. Save states are for spoiled kids and PCtards who grew up playing badly designed F5-F9 "games".
>>3082797
>PCtards
Never stop, /vr/
>>3082784
It's randomization, like gambling. Without having to learn strategy, you can save/load at any point of time and button mash everything to victory. It's a combination of gambling and the new concept of "everyone gets a trophy".
You're right that many people, yourself included, would find it fun. To many though, they can't help but feel disappointed to see so many grasping and begging for the equlivant of helicopter parenting in something like video games.
>>3082834
>It's randomization, like gambling.
How do you get randomization out of that? It's the same as playing a game any other way, just without replaying parts you've gone over already.
No one is just loading up a save and mashing buttons randomly until the game progresses an inch then they save again. Is that really what you think? Holy chirst....
>To many though, they can't help but feel disappointed to see so many grasping and begging for the equlivant of helicopter parenting in something like video games.
And again, someone who feels disappointment over how strangers are having fun has developmental or cognitive problems. You're not normal. These feelings of disappointment that not everyone wants to play games the same way as you aren't good. I don't know what it must be like to be burdened with caring about that, but I feel bad for you.
>>3082842
>How do you get randomization out of that? It's the same as playing a game any other way, just without replaying parts you've gone over already.
If you save after every challange and load on failure, you are playing a game in a way where progress any time you "happened to do it right", even if completely by chance. By never having to face that situation again, there's no validation that you actually learned to handle it or if it was just dumb luck. And if your rate of failure isn't going down as you progress further, that reinforces the position that you're not learning or improving skill much, but rather "just getting through it". Basically, it's skipping the refinement part of individual development. To put another way, someone who gains skill and ability in games doesn't need constant save states, as "replaying" something is trivial if they mastered it.
For people who actually love games, how other people play games does matter because it influences future game designs. And as noted above, the line between truely playing and watching it play itself is on a constant shift right because of people, well, like you.
>>3082842
Someone who can't understand that rules are important and breaking them just makes the whole concept of a game pointless and deserves criticizing has developmental or cognitive problems. You're not different from a retard who has fun by smashing chess pieces randomly instead of playing the game. Actually you're worse, as you also approve and defend that behavior.
>>3082878
>but rather "just getting through it"
No one is disputing that. That's the point, we're not playing it to improve or master the game. Just playing it like a toy to get through. And if that bothers you for some reason, you have mental problems.
There are games I like enough to actually master them, but 95% of them aren't worth that much time.
>>3082887
lol, nice try. Chess is a game of competitive skill. It's fundamentally different from a single player video game which literally is a toy for personal amusement. Which isn't to say both aren't great, but comparing the two is laughable.
>>3082891
>>but rather "just getting through it"
>No one is disputing that.
Then why are you on a retro enthusiasts board? Or even more, playing those games at all? If you're just trying to get through it, that sounds more like some sort of homework than a pleasure activity.
Playing games with this mindset is more in line with a mental disability than those that encourage playing games proper. If you feel compelled to continue playing even with skill no longer being required (save states), that's an addictive behavior akin to that of a gambling addict.
>>3083110
You have real problems.
>>3083110
>Then why are you on a retro enthusiasts board?
Because this is a good place to talk about many of my favorite games.... You're conveniently ignoring that this isn't how I play every game. It's how I play games I don't care enough about to devote the time to mastering. I just want to go through, see what there is to see and move on.
When there's something that really grabs me, I play it to death and love getting better. I'm probably one of the best Ecco the Dolphin players around because I've been obsessed with it since it came out and played through dozens and dozens of times.
Likewise, I've spent a lot of time playing fighters getting better and better because that's a lot of fun for me.
But take something like a run n gun shooter like Metal Slug. To me that's a kind of fun game, but only in short bursts and I have no interest in putting in the time to master it. I use games like that as distractions, I play them through piece by piece and move on when I'm done.
Video games are only one of many hobbies of mine, and for the ones I don't really care about I'd rather just play through them and be done. Video games are toys. Some toys I play with for a long time because they're interesting, some I play with a little and toss aside. That's all this is.
>>3083135
No, video games are games. Video games are toys is something that pathetic manbabies say when they need to come up with reason for their inability of following rules in games designed to be beatable by middle schoolers.
>>3083208
lol nice try
>>3083224
fuck off, retard.
>>3083259
No thanks. :)
>>3083208
Video games aren't toys is something that pathetic NEETs say when they think it makes them a grown up to not play with toys.
>>3073903
I didn't get into it until Fallout because it was so buggy and random that it felt absolutely necessary
I got out of it about two years ago playing la mulana when I found out it was a lot more fun to play the game.
>>3083208
>games designed to be beatable by middle schoolers.
So you're harping on grown men because they're not giving proper respect to games made for children? The "manbabies" are the adults who don't want to spend all their free time gitting gud at activities made for middle schoolers? I don't know whether to laugh or feel bad for you.
>>3084906
lol grampa ur so old u cant git gud at gamez i can't afford
>>3084912
I was beating the games you can't afford now when you were shitting in your diapers. ;)
>>3084906
No, I laugh at manbabies for their inability of following trivial rules. Grown man finds another entertainment if he feels like he's wasting his time. Manbaby breaks things for his personal amusement like a fucking toddler and gets all defensive with petty excuses after being called out on that.
>B-b-but crosswords are toys! LU-LU-LU! I like to fill them with random words, why spending all my free time to find the right answer? I have a wife and child!
>And pants are toys as well! Agoooo! I like them on my head! Why do you care how people play with their toys?!
>>3085005
>Manbaby
You sure do like to use that word a lot. But let's not lose sight of what's going on here. You are the one getting upset about what strangers are doing with children's playthings. You're in no position to be calling other people's maturity into question.
>>3084906
Wow, just because something is supposed to be beatable by middle schoolers doesn't mean they're made FOR middle schoolers. If you really do things designed for children then maybe just kill yourself you fucking faggot.
All videogames are NOT children's playthings. How stupid and fucked up are you guys?
>>3085042
>>3085034
But of course! With such flawless argumentation we can shrug off criticism of any retarded behavior.
Tell your dada about this victory!
>>3073903
I don't usually. But sometimes a game just starts feeling like its throwing bullshit at me so I'll cheat my way through just to see the end for myself.
>>3081302
You don't 'manage' lives and continues. You use them if/when you need them.
>>3081312
What does being good at a game have to do with anything?
>>3081389
cool story bro.
>>3083135
>But take something like a run n gun shooter like Metal Slug. To me that's a kind of fun game, but only in short bursts and I have no interest in putting in the time to master it. I use games like that as distractions, I play them through piece by piece and move on when I'm done.
A point left untouched is that action games like this often punish you when you die by taking away all of your power-ups. So when you die in Metal Slug or Contra on a level 2/3 through the game, you might as well start over.
>>3085408
>A point left untouched is that action games like this often punish you when you die by taking away all of your power-ups.
The way I look at them is as bonuses and when you die it probably means you're just going to die more before powering up again. But you do get to see what's ahead in the level and hopefully next time you make it past where you died and are a little more familiar with what's to come.
It varies by game though, one of the reasons I love Gaiares so much is that you don't just get powered up and stay there. Certain attacks are more useful in different parts of the game but switching means starting fresh again so there's a lot of risk/reward.
I never use save states but I can see why some people do it. It's fine to save state and then come back to the game later to do a part but constantly savestating and loading repeatedly takes all the challenge away from the game. I don't save because it feels a lot more rewarding to clear a level on your own without any third party help.
>>3085464
>but constantly savestating and loading repeatedly takes all the challenge away from the game.
That doesn't appeal to me either, but I assume it's a little like just playing with cheats and some games are just more fun like that. Me and a buddy would co-op Twisted Metal 2 all the time, but usually we'd put full cheats on and just use the game to goof around. It was a fun game normally, but with invincibility, infinite turbo and super jumps it was crazy fun. I imagine you could do something similar with save states like goofing your way through Ghouls n Ghosts naked with no specials. I dunno... people enjoy all kinds of weird stuff. Whatever floats your boat.
>>3077602
>>3080262
I came here to make this exact comment.
>implying sending the player back to the beginning of the game for dying too many times is good game design
When I was a kid with way too much free time, it made sense that I should have to spend hours mastering a game before I can claim to have beaten it. But now? Every hour I spend repeatedly dying in Castlevania or Battletoads is less time I get to spend actually enjoying the game, and more importantly: Less time I get to spend doing non-video game stuff. It's not like playing videogames is my only hobby.
>>3080334
>not backing up your RPG save files every few hours
In Daggerfall I have like three save files at any given time. Though to be fair, Daggerfall is a buggy piece of shit.
>>3085408
>You don't 'manage' lives and continues. You use them if/when you need them.
When they are a finite resource, risk taking and live acquisition become part of one's play style and are managed like player life.
This gets even more involved when both lives and contines have separate restart barriers. For example, you may not "risk it" for a power up or bonus if you're on your last life and near the next continue edge (3-3 going on 4-1).
This all gets lost when you remove the death penalty with save states.
I only use savestates for 3 things
>reduce time spent going through easy sections
>when RNG is involved for drops/crafting/whatever
>practice for a 1cc
Running through the same 5 minute level a bunch of times just to have another chance at beating the boss isn't fun or challenging, it's tedious.
>there are probably retards in this thread right now who don't fast forward when grinding
>>3087916
>there are probably retards in this thread right now who don't fast forward when grinding
I hope you and all your family get cancer.
>>3088115
>autism intensifies
>>3087916
I play slow jrpgs like final fantasy or pokemon games with 2x or 3x speed when grinding instead of wasting my time. Makes the games so much more enjoyable.
>haven't save stated in a while
>cat jumps on desk
>walking towards keyboard
>tfw I need to save state and quit RIGHT FUCKING NOW
Just play Nethack. There are no saves, savepoints, save states, etc. You can play a game for 2 months only to have your character die in a second. I know. It's happened to me.. to a lot of people. It's also the reason everyone comes back to the game. Not only is it a real challenge, it is a real victory when/if you win. Not a save-crutch borefest.
>>3087764
>When I was a kid with way too much free time, it made sense that I should have to spend hours mastering a game before I can claim to have beaten it. But now? Every hour I spend repeatedly dying in Castlevania or Battletoads is less time I get to spend actually enjoying the game, and more importantly: Less time I get to spend doing non-video game stuff. It's not like playing videogames is my only hobby.
This says it about perfectly. In my teens, and even 20's I had both a lot more free time and a lot fewer hobbies. I was happy when a game took me a long time to really get good at. Now that feels less and less like a good use of my time.
So many people that frequent /vr/ "don't have time to play retro games" without cheating/scumming. It's no wonder this board has evolved to become full of shitposts.
>>3089438
>It's no wonder this board has evolved to become full of shitposts.
It's mostly because of the elitists though. Remember, a lot of the people on this board are older. We don't have as much time as we once did.
It would be so great if we could get back to just talking about actual games. But bullshit like this topic are constantly brought up in the attempt to turn the discussion away from games and into trolling about how people play them.
And it's all done under this thin veneer of "helping people appreciate games". But none of us asked for that, and being talked to like a child by someone who probably wasn't even born when I was in the height of my gaming years gets really tiresome after a while.
>>3089452
It's not elitist to appreciate retro games on a retro board. Or rather, this is sort of place that those that really love retro games should be.
People are talking about using save states to erase or reduce game difficulty, and speed up other wholr games and/or parts of games that are "boring". In isolation that's fine, but why would you come to a board designed for people who actually really like the games and think that the behavior is not odd?
That's like claiming you're into classical music and therefore go somewhere to be around classical enthusiasts, but you remix/change the songs while skipping over the chorus. Other people think you're just trolling them and/or have attention problems. To those that find it their primary hobby or love, it's really just appears as insult.
None of this is based on age. Older people, such as myself, have no trouble dedicating time to old games. If something is important, you find time. If it's no, you won't.
>>3074054
You're just bad at x-com. I save scum in alot of games because starting over is tedious but it's very difficult to lose xcom. The point is that your struggle and scrape for every victory. save scumming invalidates that
>>3089484
>It's not elitist to appreciate retro games on a retro board.
That's not elitist, but insisting your way is the only way to appreciate games and making shitposting threads about it is.
I come here because this place is dedicated to many of the games I played when I was really into them and there are still ones of this era I enjoy and enjoy talking about.
But guess what? I don't have 30 hours to sink into replaying Metal Slug 4 until I can 1cc is. What's more I don't want to spend the time doing that. I'd rather make my own save states, have my fun with it and be done with it in a few hours.
And I'd really, really like to just be able to talk about that without someone like you acting like a complete brat and name calling CONSTANTLY just because I'm not playing a game the same way you are.
Now I'm sorry to bring age into this, but seriously you need to grow up. Getting pissed off and calling manbaby because a stranger has different tastes is extremely immature. If you're in your 30's or 40's and you want to devote that much time to games, then be my guest. But if you honestly can't see how you're acting like a child over this then you have some serious problems.
>>3089510
>Now I'm sorry to bring age into this,
Not him but that's all people are doing. Don't you realize how smug and condescending and insulting you sound when you say "oh, I used to do that when I was a kid, but now I don't have time to play the games properly", and lots of people throwing words like "instead of wasting my time" or even "retard" for people playing like they're intended to be played.
Maybe some people like to go through a segment a few times. I often am thinking about things going on in my life when playing games and that happens most often when I am playing a game I know super well or during a boring part. It's like taking a walk. That doesn't happen if it's constantly new stimulation, you never get to appreciate anything either. So you have to ask yourself who is really wasting their time. Better to play a few games properly than pretending you're playing anything by continuous savescumming, which is about as playing the game as watching youtube is, sometimes even less so.
>>3089543
...and yes, I'm over 30. Just forget about age, it's just a cliche, it's no real argument at all.
>>3089484
>If something is important, you find time. If it's no, you won't.
I think this is really the key. I love video games, I always have. But they're not "important" to me. They're a hobby, but even at their height they were one of many. There are a few I've gotten really good at because I love them so much I keep replaying. But I never try to get good at a game for the purpose of getting good at it. I get good if I like it so much I just keep playing. For at least 95% of games I like enough to even play (which is few) I like to play through them once and be done.
Also, with the exception of fighters which are more of a social thing and I can go for hours, most times that I play games it's for an hour at most. I've always been like that. Very rare games will make me play longer, but not much. I game for a while then I want to go do something.
I dunno.... maybe that makes me a "filthy casual" but if it does I don't care. And I maintain that if you care in any way about the way I choose to play games, you're at best immature and at worst, I don't want to even go there. Just please, for the sake of the board if nothing else, stop acting like such an asshole about everything.
Now if you'll excuse me I have some day-lilies to replant while the weather's still cool.
>>3089543
>Don't you realize how smug and condescending and insulting you sound when you say...
Ohh no, I do. And I really would like to never mention any of that at all, ever. I liked when I never had to mention anything about my age. But that guy forces the issue.
>>3089543
>lots of people throwing words like "instead of wasting my time" or even "retard" for people playing like they're intended to be played.
For fuck's sake on a stick you dipshit. You're not a "retard" for playing games "like they're intended". You're a "retard" for throwing autistic shitfest tamper tantrums at anyone else who doesn't want to. Shut. The. Fuck. Up.
>>3073958
Funny zelda 1 and 2 did the opposite for me.
>>3073903
I'll use save states for any game that doesn't have a save system of some kind, or if it has a save system that will only let you save at checkpoints really, really, really far away. And not even in moderation either. If it's a SNES platformer I'll savescum that fucker (unless it's DKC) but I'll save normally for crash 2.
>>3090131
>For the sake of the board there should be less people like you.
Really? There should be less people like me, just because I don't treat games with the same seriousness you do? But you're the one who calls people bitches, faggots and worse. But of course, the board needs less people like me and more people like you.
I guess the days when /vr/ was more than just an offshoot of /v/'s endless trolling are over. Thanks for ruining something that used to be great. I'm sorry, but you're a complete asshole.
>>3073903
>play ridiculously hard Super Metroid hacks
>literally impossible without save states if youre not a turbo autist
>>3073903
I use save states for games that use passwords so i don't have to bother writing them down and can just pick up where i left off
>>3091427
>There should be less people like me, just because I don't treat games with the same seriousness you do?
No, there should be less people like you, because you don't treat games like games.
>>3091823
I still think your tolling, shitposting and name calling is far worse than me sometimes wanting to play a game on my own terms. You actively and proudly make the environment of this board hostile and unfriendly.
>save states
Would you like to turn down the difficulty level?
When did you grow out of repeating the same process over and over again, even after you already managed it.
There are games that are randomized and designed to not have saves. Roguelikes, tactical games or whatever, where you need to evaluate everchanging situation and account for surprises. Mario is not a game like this.
Save states don't teach you to apply your controls appropriately when tough situations arise, you just learn how to move your fingers to save moment to moment and getting through really specific obstacles without actually learning anything.
I'm not gonna get mad if someone does it, but they should know that the more they practice without them, the less they'll need to use savestates at all.
