*New* Helpful Links : http://pastebin.com/UdmipND6
Welcome to the 70s to early 90s Computer Gaming General. We talk about games and the hardware they were made for, either micro, mini or mainframe computers, desktop, tower or all in keyboard package, from Japan, the US, Europe, or anywhere, if the platform came out before 1995.
Don't hesitate to share tips, your past (or present) experiences, your new machines, your already existing collection, emulation & hardware advises, as well as shots, ads & flyers, videos, interviews, musics, photos, that kind of stuff.
Allowed : Computers made from the 70s to Windows 3.x and their games (of course), peripherals for these computers from any time period (MIDI expanders included)
Tolerated : Unknown, unsupported or not really popular post-95 stuff (BeOS, old Linux, stuff like this), baka gajin Western computers
Not allowed : Late 90s games and computers, Pentium PCs or more, PPC Macs and up, Windows 95 and later
Discouraged: Europe vs America shitposting, boring, long-winded technical discussions like the last thread (unless it's technical discussions about the X68000, PC-8801, etc)
IRC Channel : #/g/retro @ irc.rizon.net
Random music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U_M-QXkvPw
Random gameplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE5Xg2vRVTo
>>3245047
The country war line was a good addition, but the
>boring, long-winded technical discussions like the last thread (unless it's technical discussions about the X68000, PC-8801, etc)
is a bit too much. Many of these posts were actually interesting, though some of these were copy paste of wikipedia stuff and/or forum posts, which was indeed a bit annoying.
Also, this thread come a bit early, there was still room for discussion in the previous one before being archived. But what's done is done.
Anyway, didn't knew the FM Towns music sounded like that, I kinda prefer the x68k/arcade/megadrive version.
So... favourite retro computer manufacturer?
>>3245047
>baka gajin Western computers
wat
>>3245057
>being a newfag
>>3245067
>though some of these were copy paste of wikipedia stuff and/or forum posts
Proofs?
>>3244831
The S-100 bus predates the Apple II because it was actually the system for the Altair 8800, later widely cloned in 8080/Z80 machines.
The overpriced Fat Mac now costs $1249
>>3244206
The C64 is better at pixel art because it doesn't limit you to 4 colours per line. I also think it's better at third person perspective games where you control a character/vehicle and move it around the screen.
I think the Atari is better at first person perspective games like Rescue on Fractalus. The additional colours are nice and the larger colour pixel sizes, combined with scrolling and the PM graphics have a distinctive feel I really enjoy. Another thing about the Atari I like better is the ability to do nearly full frame graphics. It was not always used well, due to increased cycle costs from the DMA needed, but it's a nice feature to be able to eliminate the border.
>>3245207
Ataris have half the colour resolution of the C64 which was done as a means of eliminating dot crawl and colour bleed (which was a problem for Americans, not so much Europe). The C64 has a better video output and improved color resolution, and when viewed on an S-video or C= display, offers more detail for characters, icons, etc.
As for games, the Atari 8-bit was older than the C64 so its games tend to be of the early 80s styles with a lot more single screen platformers and space shooters. Since the C64 came later and ran more contemporary to the NES, its games are more often late 80s genres such as side scrollers, beat-em-ups, and CRPGs. It depends on your preference; if you like 2nd gen gaming better, you might prefer the Atari while those who prefer Mario and Dragon Quest might like the C64 more.
Nonetheless I'd ay that the C64 _clearly_ has the wider range of what can be done with its gfx-modes.
(btw C64 sprites have 4 colors, with one being the background though and you could easily multiplex them etc...
If you compare gfx and games you should always select the 'best'.
For C64 I'd call Mayhem in Monsterland, Turrican 1-3, Katakis, etc etc (the well known titles)
I am sure though that there are vast amounts of games that look and play better on the Atari (it seems that this is true mostly for old titles pre '85 or so).
The Atari is cool in some ways but it does have its limits which is why for example LucasArts didn't port Maniac Mansion to it. Then again, Sierra didn't put King's Quest on the C64 for similar reasons.
>>3245110
>>baka gajin Western computers
Wat. Didn't see that one. For the OP of the next thread, don't forget not to include that shit.
Anyway, about my favorite retro computer manufacturer, well, I don't seems to have any, most made some neat machines but also had some major issues (some being greedy fucks for example). But anyway, a few years ago I would have said Commodore because of the Amiga, but because the direction was totally incompetent I think I'll go with sharp, because I don't know enough about their bad sides and because they made some really good computers.
>>3245114
I won't be linking to a specific post (because it would take too much time), but there were one or two posts which, after reading them made me check on wiki more informations about the machine they were talking about, only to discover that the stuff that was written on the article was almost the same as these posts. They weren't literal copypasta, but they were so close to wiki article that they could have been re-formatted ones.
Wether you believe me or not on the subject is up to you though.
>>3245256
>The Atari is cool in some ways but it does have its limits which is why for example LucasArts didn't port Maniac Mansion to it
They put Maniac Mansion on the Apple II which doesn't even have hardware sprites. I think an 800XL/65XE/130XE should be able to pull it off.
>>3245256
>Then again, Sierra didn't put King's Quest on the C64 for similar reasons.
Which were...?
>>3245278
The AGI engine was too big to fit in 64k of memory for one thing (the Apple II versions required a 128k model) and also the C64's tile and sprite-based graphics were not well suited for it; AGI was designed for a machine with bitmap graphics.
Ok I don't have the skill to do this and I'm sure it's much harder with the more complicated games, but what games are missing from the Atari 8-bit that you wish were ported? Multiload disk games would probably be more difficult, but maybe Pirates!, King's Quest, Wizardry, Bard's Tale, Ultima V (planned, but cancelled - fuck you, Dick Garriot).
>>3245047
I miss Sierra games.
>>3245289
Elite - this game was on practically every computer of the day, but mysteriously enough not the A8
Gunship - Would benefit from the Atari's faster CPU
Pirates! - A classic
Maniac Mansion - Considering LucasArts started on the A8, it's too bad they never did SCUMM games for it
Ultima V - I took an entire year to beat the Amiga version; I am not making this up
SSI Gold Box games - I have a soft spot for CRPGs
>>3245312
BTW, I checked out the source code for Elite. The C64 code ports easily enough but getting the main game loop in place along with keyboard/joystick input is a bitch - C64 is able to detect multiple keypresses while the Atari isn't.
Others that I'd like to do (and reasons for not continuing):
Barbarian: Would be kind of difficult due to the way the C64 version is programmed - it banks out all of the ROMs and I/O to use the entire 64k of memory in the computer and it swaps around backgrounds a lot.
Speedball: Would be difficult due to the Atari's more limited sprite hardware
Tetrapod: Small but the BBC has twice the X resolution in 4 colours and so the game doesn't look right (scrolling wouldn't work).
Dragon Quest III: Ripped some of the graphics, but at 512k this game is way too enormous to disassemble.
Paradroid: Got stuck trying to understand the code
Hyper Sports: The A8 should just about be able to make a colourful enough port of this, great sub-games like Archery and Clay Shooting.
Rock'N'Bolt: Activision game up on the A8 too early IMO
Tenth Frame is supposedly a game that was planned for Atari release; in fact advertisements for it even mention "Coming soon to the Atari 800XL" but it never materialized.
Also I could swear I heard somewhere that the C64 version of Pirates! is partially written in BASIC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux6cvu9522Q
I think this is one of the first DOS games I ever had as a kid.
Its made its way from floppy to floppy to hardrive and now I have a permanent archive on my new computer
>>3245353
Believe it or not, most of the main game logic in Pirates! is BASIC code with machine language used for stuff like graphics handling.
Tons of classics never made it to the Atari 8-bit.
Skyfox was some of the best early 3D FPP games. Given that it was ported on the 6502-based Apple II and C64, a port to the A8 shouldn't be overly difficult. It's also on the Z80-based Amstrad and Spectrum, but those versions are too slow and rubbish to play. The A8 would be better at this kind of game than the C64.
Exploding Fist was a fantastic fighting game. The graphics are not the best, but the use of sampled sounds is extremely cool.
Gauntlet and Arkanoid were ported to the A8 but those are some of the worst versions. US Gold and Imagine were just all like "Oh, here. Take this piece of dog poop shaped like a cassette tape. Now where's my £15?"
Time Pilot, it is amazing that this game is on everything except A8 and Amstrad (officially or otherwise). I think the A8 could do a fantastic version, possibly the rip-off Space Pilot from Anirog/Kingsoft on C64 source code could be used although it may be better to write it around Antic/GTIA of A8 from scratch as it is not exactly the most complex game design.
>>3245256
Didn't King's Quest run on a 4.77Mhz IBM XT with 4 color CGA graphics?
>>3245420
How does this make it runnable on a 1.79Mhz Atari?
>>3245426
The 8088 is barely any faster than a 6502 and also PC graphics are just dumb frame buffers so the CPU has to do all the work of moving sprites around that would be done on the Atari by the ANTIC.
>>3245431
KQ1 on the Apple II uses double hi-res graphics. That's 560x192. The 8-bit is limited to 320x192, isn't it?
>>3245435
CGA still doesn't suffer from a lot of the same limitations as the ANTIC especially regarding resolution and color placement. Besides, there's no way a 6502 could match or exceed a 16-bit 8086 for performance.
The 8086 is more like the Z80 in that it has more overall CPU power, but execution time is very slow so it's really not much faster than a 6502 at all.
Also the memory issue. Don't forget that Sierra didn't put the AGI engine on the C64 because it needed 128k.
One of my favorite music from that game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmE3uXZUxw8
which hopefully made it to the PC version unharmed (unlike the mission 5 music, which is the one I like the most from the original version), though the arrange isn't really the best one (it's still a pretty good tune, but I prefer the original version).
And you, what's your favorite Firehawk music?
>>3245435
The PC DOS version used the 320*200 color CGA mode, so the resolution isn't really an issue 8bit Atari computers.
Also disk capacity. IBM XTs had 360k floppies while the A8 had either 92k or 128k floppies and it was more common to support the former for compatibility reasons.
Given that KQ1 came out in 1984, it would seem slightly odd to not have a C64 port but I guess memory really was the big issue if the Apple II version needed 128k.
>>3245456
Sierra never really did seem to be interested in the Atari or C64 anyway; they were always a mainly Apple and PC-centered company.
>>3245449
http://www.midimusicadventures.com/qs/digital/firehawk/03Mission1.mp3
I prefer this one to the JPC versions. Same with this:
http://www.midimusicadventures.com/qs/digital/firehawk/04Mission2.mp3
>>3245449
>>3245436
CGA has 80 column text and fewer restrictions on color/pixel placement, but this is more beneficial for business software than games, an area where IBM XTs fell flat compared to the A8 or C64.
KQ doesn't have more than 1-2 sprites on screen at any given moment, so that would in theory be well within the C64 or Atari's capabilities.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1984-Macintosh-512K-Model-M0001W-Fat-Mac-Keyboard-Mouse-Non-upgraded-Serviced/141997556037?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36979%26meid%3Dfd2545cdd2c84de1afc480c79f721432%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D262432549124
ONE-THOUSAND-TWO-HUNDRED DOLLARS
>>3245471
CGA needed expensive monitors to display 80 column text properly, otherwise it's extremely limited and hard to use compared with the ANTIC or VIC-II.
>four colors in two fixed palettes
>VRAM is in a fixed location
>no programmable characters
>no sprites or scrolling
If you compare any game that was on the A8 first like Alley Cat, Archon, or Jumpman, the PC ports look quite pathetic. For King's Quest, this wasn't an issue because the game has very little animation.
>>3245443
Indeed. The 8080/Z80/8086 are horribly inefficient CPUs compared with the 6502, needing 8-10 clock cycles to do things that the 6502 manages in 3 cycles. When it comes to number-crunching, the 6502 falls short, but games don't generally need to do anything more than integer math anyway. Also the Apple II and PC have no sprites/scrolling so the CPU has to do all that work by itself.
Ah yes, my cousin had KQ1 on his Apple IIc and it did require 128k to run. It came on two double sided disks IIRC.
>>3245495
See there's another thing - Apple II disks stored 140k which is quite a bit more than the 92k/128k Atari disks.
>>3245490
CGA lacked two features that would have really helped it a lot; a 160x200 RGB mode and programmable characters.
>>3245512
There was a 160x200 16 color mode on CGA though, even if it's only a hardware trick.
>>3245518
>There was a 160x200 16 color mode on CGA though, even if it's only a hardware trick.
If you call using the composite video a hardware trick. Also most people had RGB monitors and couldn't use it anyway.
>>3245561
Except the composite video used the same resolutions as the TLL RGB one, not 160x200.
Also, I mistyped it, it's actually 160x100, and yes, most people could use it on RGB monitors as it was actually a trick using the 80x25 text mode.
>>3245582
It's effectively 160x200 due to NTSC resolution.
Where can I get software and games for 8 bit computers? If you cant answer due to software piracy laws, then I would appreciate knowing where to find such software that is public domain, abandonware, etc.
>>3245714
>It's effectively 160x200 due to NTSC resolution.
Except there's no such thing "160x200 due to NTSC resolution", the NTSC standard only a define number of scanlines, not an horizontal pixel resolution.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRS-80-Model-III-Micro-Computer-Radio-Shack-Powers-ON-to-Cass-/322122971043?hash=item4b000677a3:g:tLcAAOSwQaJXR0N1
Highway robbery. How do you justify charging $250 for a cassette model? Considering all the shit I'd have to buy to upgrade this to a disk machine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RADIO-SHACK-TRS-80-COLOR-COMPUTER-2-WITH-GAMES/322114672835?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36537%26meid%3Dc9e5286538a543a1877bd703f2910aa5%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D322122971043
This is actually priced fairly and you can see it does have a bid on it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RadioShack-TRS-80-Model-III-Micro-Computer-Radio-Shack-For-Parts-or-Repair-/262455554527?hash=item3d1b91f1df:g:b4MAAOSwn8FXR0H5
>doesn't even power on
>$250
This is even worse.
>>3245804
>computer powers on to a Cass? prompt
>I assume it's looking for a cassette to boot from
Dude...all you have to do is press Enter twice and go into BASIC.
>>3245804
You'd think a NASA engineer would be able to afford disk drives.
BTW, that Cass? prompt on the TRS-80...it's not asking to boot a cassette, it's asking for the baud rate for the cassette port. If you just press Enter, it defaults to 300 bps. It then displays a Memory? prompt which is asking if you want BASIC to use less memory in case you need to reserve room for machine language routines (specify in bytes how much memory BASIC should use). After that, you get the BASIC Ok prompt.
On the M1/3/4, if you want to run a machine language program from cassette, you're supposed to type SYSTEM in BASIC which gives you a *? prompt. If you type a filename, it will load it off of tape into the address specified by the first two bytes. If you type /, it will jump to the load address and / followed by an integer number will jump to that address. Conversely, if Disk BASIC is loaded, typing SYSTEM merely exits you back to DOS.
The Atari 8-bits actually let you autoboot tapes; if you hold Option down on power up, it beeps once and waits for you to press Play on the tape recorder.
TRS-80s were really limited as far as gaming ability.
>128x48 block graphics
>only way to get sound on a M1/3 was by outputting to the cassette port and connecting it to a stereo
Yet people did come up with clever workarounds for this. The lack of proper sound hardware until the M4 was a kludge, although back at that time sound was not seen as having any purpose on a computer except for gaming. In that regard, it's very fortunate that IBM did include a sound generator in the PC because most small business computers at the time were completely mute (so to speak).
The M3/4 also offered an optional hi-res graphics board but it wasn't that widely used because you needed BASIC extensions for it and also it would have excluded people who didn't have it.
>>3245912
>>128x48 block graphics
Damn. My arduboy is higher resolution (128x64)
We has a classroom with TRS80 machines back in Intermediate school. Blew my mind when I walked in one day and they were playing some maze-shooter game ... WITH SOUND. It was years later when I found out the speaker was plugged into the cassette port.
The PET also had similar workarounds to get sound (only 80xx PETs have a speaker) but more technically involved. You had to output to the user port and connect a wire on two of its pins which ran to an amplifier, also apparently you needed some kind of resistor attached. Games sometimes did support user port sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh8geD12KFE
This Model II must have been stored well to be able to power up perfectly after a quarter century, especially since Tandy's build quality was usually not the best.
It's not that obvious from the video, but Model IIs are really...noisy. Aside from the 8" floppy motor spinning continuously, it also has a case fan. This would be Steve Jobs's worst nightmare.
The Model II used a variant of TRS-80 Disk BASIC that's similar to the BASIC on the M1/3/4, but it removed cassette support and has several enhancements because it was derived from the latest (at the time) version of Microsoft BASIC-80, so it has octal number conversion, an improved editor, and a couple other things not found on the M1/3.
On the downside, Model II BASIC doesn't have PEEK/POKE which makes it pretty hacker-unfriendly. I assume because they intended it as a turnkey business computer that you just ran applications on and weren't supposed to program yourself.
On the upside, you can just boot up CP/M instead which had generic MBASIC (very similar to Model II BASIC) and which does have PEEK/POKE.
>>3246216
There was a hack for Model II BASIC that adds PEEK/POKE, but you lose OCT$ and NAME, so depends on how much you value those statements. I'd say not much because needing octal conversion is pretty rare and NAME is used to rename disk files which you can just do in DOS anyway.
The cassette storage on the TRS-80 is pretty flaky anyway; if you put the tape recorder too close to the computer, it can end up corrupting data.
I'm not sure if the Model II family should even be considered a real TRS-80. It's more like a business-ey CP/M box designed for heavy-duty tasks like commercial software development or running industrial equipment that they just slapped the TRS-80 name on.
http://www.mocagh.org/ai/ai-v2i2catalog.pdf
Apparently Scott Adams text adventures were available for the TRS-80 Model II. They did also offer them (ditto Infocom adventures) on 8" disks for CP/M, but this appears to run in TRS-DOS. As far as CP/M is concerned, the disk format could present a problem if your particular CP/M version doesn't support the one the games are on.
https://github.com/pski/model2archive/tree/master/Software/Games
Some games for the Model II. Unlike the M1/3, it has 80 column text and the character set exchanges many of the graphics characters for additional mathematical/currency/assorted other symbols.
I had a chance to buy a Model II some years ago, but I passed it up when I considered its size-to-usefulness ratio. If I did buy it, you can be damn sure I'd replace that diesel truck mot...I mean 8" floppy drive with a Flash emulator like the Lotharek HxC.
>>3245495
The Apple version of KQ also runs really, really friggin' slow and is improved a lot by a CPU accelerator.
>>3245462
Sierra did do some games for the A8 and C64, but didn't make much of any money from them and most likely perceived the things as a cheap, low-rent game console and not a real computer.
>>3245404
A8 is more of a 2nd gen system so most of its games will look like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh1UmrYNYFA
Whereas the C64 is more of a 3rd gen system so most of its games will look like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdow7HAC5mk
>>3247520
that TMNT port is so fucking bad
>>3247656
It's not that bad, I even prefer the music over the NES.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMm6NIhJFJ4
Of course it can't touch the NES version which has top-notch background graphics and programming.
And don't even get me started on the DOS version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxzmUhrBLE0
>still supporting CGA on a game that needs a 286 to run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGU32i16lXs
Amiga version is pretty good, it even has sampled speech and I love that funk-driven soundtrack. I don't think any of the 8/16-bit computer ports were released here, pretty sure they were Europe-only. We just got the NES and PC ports.
>>3247736
Actually it's probably because of NEC V20 users - the game will run on an XT-class PC if a V20 is installed. Some XT clones also had a 286 in them.
>>3247748
Amiga and C64 ceased existing in North America once the 90s started. They kept going in Europe though for another half a decade.
>>3247762
Some studios still used them though.
>>3247726
That song is the worst thing I've ever heard.
>>3247748
This one's the only one that gets the music right.
The Ninja Warriors also sampled FM straight from the arcade board.
>>3247774
Which one? The C64 one or the NES one? I kinda like the NES sound better.
>>3247762
16-bit Amigas went up into the mid-90s, 32-bit models were still supported and you could get new software for them in Europe until like 1998.
>>3247736
Why does the DOS version just play the title screen music continuously? How lazy can you programmers be.
Note that the C64 and Amiga versions are called "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles" because nanny state Bongland wouldn't let them use the word "Ninja".
>>3247793
Even in some European countries the Amiga became a niche machine by the mid 90s, as PC clones became cheaper and more easier to obtain. It got a niche status, with a few manufacturers making new hardware expansion, with some being borrowed from the PC world (SVGA-based graphic cards for a system that once had base video hardware that nothing on PC could compete with) and some software houses still releasing games and utilities. But the platform was basically in life support, not even remotely popular like your post might imply. Most new computers that were sold were PC clones.
It was the same with the 8bit Atari line when the ST line came out -- yes, some people still bough those, but it wasn't popular anymore.
>>3247810
The NES version was called that way too, but I'd think it's more because of Germany, thanks to them Contra became Probotectors.
>>3247830
>It was the same with the 8bit Atari line when the ST line came out -- yes, some people still bough those, but it wasn't popular anymore.
They didn't even sell the original 400/800 in PAL regions, those were strictly a US thing. The 800XL was the first model sold in Europe, but it got popular in the commie block after the low-cost 65XE came out, partially because Jack Tramiel was interesting in marketing computers in the land of his birth.
>>3247857
>They didn't even sell the original 400/800 in PAL regions, those were strictly a US thing.
Of course they did, they sold the 400 models for like 1990 F in France.
>>3245312
>Maniac Mansion - Considering LucasArts started on the A8, it's too bad they never did SCUMM games for it
MM should be doable on a 64k model of the A8. Maybe the 128k 130XE could be used as well; this would certainly cut down on the amount of disk access required.
>>3247870
One thing I always wished was that Maniac and Zak supported the C128 because Lordy, they would sure benefit from the extra RAM and speedier disk access.
Retro Apple PCs are still usable to this day. IBM PCs are not. tru fact
>>3247873
I mean, really. Wizardry supported the C128, why couldn't you do it, LucasFarts?
>>3247830
I saw some Amiga 500's used up through late 90's, on some university and college campuses for video editing. I guess it was mainly for adding text overlay to a video stream, for the school's TV channel (which you could pick up on local TV stations).
This was in Tampa Bay. I'm sure at that time there also remained a large number of Video Toaster equiped Amiga systems throughout the US.
>>3245998
Is that arduino running some kind of SuperCHIP-8 VM or something? (the resolution is identical)
But anyway, you can even make some games with less than what the TRS-80 provided. The original CHIP-8 is only 64x32 pixels,
http://www.pong-story.com/chip8/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip-8
>>3245804
TRS-80 M3s, like most microcomputers of that time, use 4116 RAM which is kind of a piece of shit and prone to dropping over dead. These chips require three (!) voltage lines, a -5, a +5, and a +12, and the -5 must be activated first otherwise the thing will self-destruct. It's possible to mod computers with 4116 RAM to accept 4164 or 41256 chips which are easier to find, use less power, and are more reliable.
It took many years before DRAM approached decent levels of reliability; nowadays memory failures are a rare sight.
A lot of early microcomputers weren't very reliable, but Apple IIs were pretty bulletproof, that 4116 RAM being the only real reliability issue with them. Later models switched to 4164 chips and midway through the IIe run, Apple felt confident enough to solder the chips to the board.
>>3249224
The scene with Homer eating potato chips in zero Gs in space was animated on an Amiga.
Did any retro computers have lightguns like consoles did?
>>3245047
Just thought you guys might be interested in these youtube channels I stumbled onto
Archival footage and interviews from the Center of Computing History in England
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnw4p95EOWghQNP4vOv8VHw
The personal youtube account of the repair guy for the Computer History Museum in the US
https://www.youtube.com/user/mverdiell
Autistis be forewarned, these both contain a fair amount of content about pre-70s computers.
>>3250708
Almost all digitally composed animation in the 90s was done on Amiga computers actually.
>>3248168
If I remember right the TV Guide Channel was run on amigas up until the mid 00s
>>3247810
Your point? Guerrilla War originally had the player controlling Castro and Che Guevara and you have to overthrow Batista, but they were replaced in the US release with generic no-name commandos because of autistic Burgers still living in 1950s McCarthyism (oh no is fucking gommies we cannot has that)
>>3250932
Dude...it was the 80s. The Cold War was not over yet and anti-Castro sentiment was _very_ high.
>>3250945
Putting that aside, Burgers actually believe it was a negative for their corrupt puppet dictator to be overthrown back in the 50s and for the Cuban people to own all the land and sugar cane themselves rather than a US puppet dictator and the Mafia, or that it was bad to give people universal health care and education.
"During development, the Atari 400 and 800 received the code names of 'Candy' and 'Collette', reportedly after two attractive secretaries who worked in the company offices. Candy was meant to be more of a toy/learning tool aimed at kids (or parents) who wanted something a bit more sophisticated than an Atari VCS console, while Collette was a full-up computer aimed at the Apple II and TRS-80. The 400 and 800 names originally reflected both the retail price of the computers and the amount of factory-installed RAM (4k and 8k). However, during 1980, the cost of memory suddenly dropped so that all machines were soon shipping with the full compliment of 16 or 48k.
>>3250973
>During development, the Atari 400 and 800 received the code names of 'Candy' and 'Collette', reportedly after two attractive secretaries who worked in the company offices
Oh damn, you couldn't do this today. SJWs would lose their minds.
>>3250956
The Cubans who got fucked out of all their land and property came here and organized themselves. They have a pretty sizable political influence.
Anyway, what's everyone's opinions on late-70s/early-80s minicomputers?
>>3250825
The Amstrad CPC did have one. Some computers had lightpens instead.
>>3250890
Not really, many used the Amiga, but many also used Next, SGI or Sun stations and sometimes Atari ST computers (I saw a documentary about some cartoon studio a few month ago where they were showing animation previews on an ST or STe).
Some Dutch studios might have used those high-end Phillips MSX2 computers, and TV channels in Japan might have used the X1 and later the X68000 or these Sony MSX2 that had an integrated Genlock and an external video mixer for that task (though some studios did have access to Amigas with video toasters).
>>3250956
Both the Commies an Batista were as bad as the other -- not owning land because it belongs to some foreign company or not owning land because it belongs to the government? Tough choice. It's like replacing a tumor with another kind of cancer. Anyway, it's not even a /vr/ subject so if you wanna continue talking about that stuff you might as well make a thread on >>>/pol/ .
>>3251348
Never had any interaction with one of these, but I find these fascinating. I think that it's many people's dream to have one in their basement with a battery of VT-220 and/or Tektronix 4010 terminals and a huge tape library hooked to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al4E0CUrlFk
Someone messing with SX-Windows on Sharp x68030. Gotta love that version of Magical sound shower he's playing somewhat around 2:50, some patches sound even better than the arcade version.
>>3245308
DUN DUN DUN DUN
*ding*ding*
So how long do you expect computers with built in floppy drives and displays to last for?
>>3254525
Floppies and CRTs can be replaced now by Flash drives and LCD displays in most cases.
>>3255178
Yes, but it can be costly. Then again, so can replacing crts and parts - I've had to spend £25 on a single part for my 68x Mac.
Come to think of it, in 10-20 years any DOS computers without floppy emus will not work be usable anymore, will they?
>>3255197
The price of floppy emulators will probably drop by then, keeping in mind they're a pretty new thing that hasn't been around very long.
Don't people restore antique cars that are 80+ years old?
There was one guy on /vr/ who tried to argue with me that if I use a 1541 Ultimate on a C64 instead of a real drive, that I'm a fake emulation kiddie. He sounds like he wandered in out of his containment thread in the CRT general.
Well, in the case of something like a C64, they have Flash disk drive replacements and there's no special monitor, it just uses any TV set. In the case of PCs, there's also Flash disk emulators and all the standard monitor types can be replaced by an LCD.
>>3255304
I meant computers with internal displays like the Mac I recently bought, you bloody cunt.
>>3255372
>Macs
>UK
I'm pretty sure all you guys had back then were rubber keyboard toys like a Spectrum.
>>3255292
>He sounds like he wandered in out of his containment thread in the CRT general.
Meh, you have no idea how many of them are emulator fags using PC monitors with scanline filters.
Anyway, what you said sounds like it didn't happen.
>>3255424
>Trying this hard to start a country war
Step up your game.
>>3255424
Macs were sold in Europe too, at lower amounts bought but still.
I also recently bought a 512k Mac.
>>3255372
It is possible to do some weird LCD conversion apparently.
By the way, which version of Macintosh is it? If it is one of the harddrive-less versions that need to be booted from disk you can buy a Rominator from Big Mess O Wires and load the Mac OS from ROM.
>>3255304
>and all the standard monitor types can be replaced by an LCD.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-9-Pin-12-1-CGA-EGA-MDA-TTL-LCD-Monitor-HGC-HGA-MGP-/221134144579
eg. this accepts CGA/MDA/EGA signals
Yes, you can replace all of that, but i think that part of the fun in the old computer hobby is also servicing the original parts yourself too, even though some people just wanna play games and that's all (in that case yeah, just sell your broken stuff for pieces and get yourself emulators and shit).
Haven't been around for the last couple threads, any suggestions for the pastebin I missed?
>>3258179
This is what?
>>3258193
You know, him.
>>3258195
What the fuck are you talking about?
>>3258215
And since when did I ever argue with you about using a 1541 Ultimate = being an emulator kiddie? Do you have a link to these posts? If you wanna use one then go for it. Not everyone want to use one, but if you just wanna play games and stuff and don't want to mess with floppies, using one is alright.
Apparently the idea goes back further than you think.
We have the Flash thingies for a reason - your disk drives won't last forever.
>>3258604
The typical 1541 drive got used _way_ harder than most PC 3.5" floppies. When you only have 64k of memory and no hard disk, you're gonna be doing a lot of disk access.
>>3258604
Next time you pick an example, choose one that isn't as hardcore as that one. Your average old computer enthusiast won't be reading thousands of old dirty disks the way that guy did. Flash memory will start to fail too if you're reading and writing data at such intensity.
Also, everything in a disk drive that isn't some custom made IC can be replaced.
>>3258634
>Also, everything in a disk drive that isn't some custom made IC can be replaced
I don't think you can replace the head mechanism in a floppy (like he noted in his post) unless there's a chink sweatshop somewhere still making new floppy heads you can put in your 1541.
Which actually gives pause for thought - it can't be too pricey to manufacture replacement drive heads, at least it shouldn't cost more than all those Flash drives. Yet everyone invests money in manufacturing Flash emulators instead.
Floppy drives are supposed to last 30 years though it does depend on usage. And I do agree that most drives in 8-bit machines have led a harder life than the ones in a PC generally do. I only ever had one 3.5" PC floppy fail on me and that was a shitty Chinese one.
>>3258683
My only 3"1/2 PC drive that died did so becauseI used some shitty chinese floppy disk which cover just popped of and knocked the heads out of alignement.
Don't ask me how it happened, i don't understand how it came to be either.
Also, for non-PC compatible drives, the only issue I've ever had was a loose belt.
I've learned some lessons over the years - I don't stick anything in my floppy drives unless the disk is good condition and not dirty or has a loose shutter that could come off in the drive. Also I make sure to keep everything in a disk box.
I was sorting through a bunch of 3.5" disks I have and some had missing shutters or were full of crud. I won't put any of these in my drives like I would have done when I was 14 and didn't know any better.
>>3258604
You know, this really rustles my jimmies when autists like this literally destroy irreplaceable vintage hardware in their quest to archive every last crummy disk full of homemade Boulder Dash levels or shitty BASIC programs they wrote when they were 12 years old because mmmmuh nostalgia.
>>3258672
The big advantage of Flash drives on Commodore systems is ease of file transfer from a PC.
>>3258739
Weren't there cables to hook C64 drives to a PC though.
>>3258770
There were, but that was like 10-12 years ago. The problem is thatthey all required a parallel portwhich on a newer PC is 404 not found.
Since Commodore drives are designed to be daisy-chained, you can instead just use a Flash drive and attach it to the back for file transfers if that floats your boat.
>>3258784
Well that sounds like a good plan -- having real drives to read actual floppies as well as a flash drive for file transfer is kind of a smart move.
>>3258672
>Which actually gives pause for thought - it can't be too pricey to manufacture replacement drive heads, at least it shouldn't cost more than all those Flash drives. Yet everyone invests money in manufacturing Flash emulators instead.
Convenience and ease of supporting modern PC hardware.
What are some good MSX/MSX 2 games that doesn't need translation to enjoy?
>>3258809
Most Konami action games, Thexder, Fire Hawk and probably more.
On most stuff like old PCs, TRS-80s, and Amigas, if your floppy drives keel over, they can be fairly easily replaced by an ordinary 1.44MB drive. Unfortunately this doesn't apply to Apple or non-Amiga Commodore hardware which is where Flash drives come in.
>>3258634
>Flash memory will start to fail too if you're reading and writing data at such intensity.
I understand that Flash memory has a life expectancy of about 10,000 R/W cycles. It will still work afterwards, but you can't write to it anymore and it just acts as a ROM.
>>3258634
I think his point is more that Flash memory can be replaced while your 30 year old floppy drive mechanisms...not so much.
>>3258869
For EEPROM when you write too much stuff it becomes stuck in programmable mode and can't distinguish the high and low states. I know that the latter also occurs in Flash ROM, but I don't know for the former.
I do know that the more you write things the less it'll be able to store data on the long run too.
>>3259240
>while your 30 year old floppy drive mechanisms...not so much.
Except almost everything in a floppy drive mechanism can be replaced. The only parts that can't are some ICs and to some extent the drive's head because they're no necessarily produced anymore, but like the other anon stated, manufacturing new ones wouldn't cost that much. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if it was possible to make a DIY one.
>>3258863
Yup they can, but beware of the late chinese ones that doesn't have drive select and other pins.
Regarding disk drives, if it came to it vr enthusiasts could simply pay a factory in China to produce more. Someone did it with Apple DB19 connectors.
>>3258809
>>3260383
It's true that even though it's an RPG, the MSX version has most of it's text in english.
>>3255823
>By the way, which version of Macintosh is it? If it is one of the harddrive-less versions that need to be booted from disk you can buy a Rominator from Big Mess O Wires and load the Mac OS from ROM.
I can attest to the awesomeness of the ROM-Inator on a 512K.
Loading the OS from ROM is so quick you would believe it. You can customise it and write to it once it's installed. No chip programmer needed.
You get about 860KB of ROM space to fill with whatever you like.
The FloppyEmu from BMOW is also amazing. Emulation of Hard Drives up to 2GB is simply out of this world for a computer like that. Not to mention it emulates regular floppy drives for Macs, Lisa, and Apple II machines. Even Hard Drives for the Apple II!
Macintosh II series and SE/30 machines have also recently received ROM-Inator treatment. The ROM disk is larger and can be optionally loaded into RAM temporarily for read+write usage. I think it's about 8MB in size this time.
The BMOW guy is genius!
>>3260057
>The only parts that can't are some ICs and to some extent the drive's head because they're no necessarily produced anymore
There's a couple different types of floppy heads and I'm not sure if there's a physical difference between high and double density ones. The magnetic coercivity is different but I don't know if the head itself produces that or the drive electronics.
You have 8", 5.25" 80 and 40 track heads, and 3.5" (all 80 track but no idea if there's any physical difference between DD and HD heads). At minimum I wouldn't worry about 3.5" since 1.44MB drives vastly outnumber all the older types and we probably have enough laying around to last a few decades.
>>3260057
>but beware of the late chinese ones that doesn't have drive select and other pins.
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/35disk/Disk.htm
This guy modded a floppy ribbon cable to work around that problem. In any case, you only need a drive with the jumper select for your boot floppy (ie. Drive A). Drive B would just be 1 anyway so you can just put any Chinese 1.44MB drive in there and it doesn't matter.
I also found a Sony 1.44MB drive in a Goodwill this weekend and it was an older (judging by the gray faceplate) pre-Windows 95 model which did have the jumper pins. Currently I don't have any non-PC hardware where this feature is relevant, but hey, you never know. Tested it and it works fine.
>>3258863
>Unfortunately this doesn't apply to Apple or non-Amiga Commodore hardware which is where Flash drives come in
Or anything like the TRS-80 Model II which has 8" drives because the controller isn't really compatible with 3.5" drives due to the fact that 8" drives spin at 360 RPM while 3.5" is always 300 RPM. The only thing that you can swap an 8" drive with is a 5.25" HD drive because the rotation speed and bitrate are the same.
One other problem is that many 5.25" and 8" drives use fabric drive belts which were also found in projectors and VCRs, but nobody really makes those anymore...
>>3261028
Again, if you can pony up the money there's no reason you can't get some chink sweatshop to make more of them.
>>3260091
We'd mostly need replacement heads and possibly stepper motors. Basically, anything that has moving parts can and will fail with enough use (CRTs being one particular exception to the rule).
>>3261124
>(CRTs being one particular exception to the rule).
What.
>>3261132
Most stuff in an old computer that can break is mechanical components like disk drive mechanisms because anything with moving parts will fail with enough use. CRTs are a notable example of something with no moving parts that will fail with enough use.
Alas, I wish it were possible to make new CRTs but it would be far too expensive versus something simple like the 19 pin adapters he mentioned. LCD panels will be the only choice once the last CRT dies.
>>3258779
There's a thing called ZoomFloppy now that works via USB.
>>3261140
CRTs are still being manufactured last I checked though.
>>3261153
There's probably a couple of shitty Chinese TV sets for sale in Third World countries but the days of good quality, mass produced ones are long, long over.
>>3261160
Ikegami still sell brand new CRT broadcast monitors.
>>3261124
>We'd mostly need replacement heads
Again though, replacement floppy heads should be very simple to produce with the exception that there's a few different types depending on the drive. And I do agree with what the other guy said that 8-bit computers put a lot more wear and tear on floppy drives than a PC does (unless maybe 8086 machines). The amount of disk access needed to play the bigger multiload C64/Apple II games like Pirates! and Maniac Mansion is...ouch.
>>3261182
Apple IIs weren't so bad because most people had two drives which balances out the workload on them, but C64 setups generally were single drive and software usually didn't support more than one.
Are there any games on Western PCs that combine several arcade genres simultaneously (like breakout and bullet hell) and make something new out of it? Would prefer original titles and not arcade ports.
>>3261165
Link pls
>>3262295
Here it is:
http://www.ikegami.com/br/products/hdtv/hdtv_monitor_frame1.html
Two models of multiformat CRT broadcast monitors.
>>3260091
>Someone did it with Apple DB19 connectors.
Yes. There is no more a shortage of DB-19 connectors. Steve Chamberlain (BMOW) got 10000 made in China.
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/27668-db-19-hot-juicy-awesomeness/?p=295496
He is selling them himself, and his fellow investors are selling them at a couple of other online shops.
I believe Sony still also makes a few Trinitron broadcasting monitors; they have one plant in Indonesia dedicated to them and it's the only CRT production they have left.
>>3263749
>$9,800/$11,200
>Th-thanks
Well that's what broadcast monitors cost when they're new.
As for the plants >>3263638 is talking about, I think it's mostly so they can produce spares for the already existing CRT BVMs used by studios (because studios and video professionals bitched at sony when they announced that they'd stop making new CRT monitors and their parts in 2008).
>>3263164
The DB-19 appears to have been a custom-made part for Apple which is why they're not readily available like DB-25s.
>>3263898
It was also used on Atari STs and NeXT machines. It's also possible to make an ersatz DB-19 by chopping half the pins off a DB-25.
CP/M was never put on the 6502. How come.
>>3264662
Likely because 6502s don't lend themselves to transportable code the way Z80s do. Most 6502 machines do not have a memory map compatible with CP/M and the use of memory mapped I/O is another handicap.
The standard CP/M memory map goes like:
0000-00FFh: Program Segment Prefix
0100-DBFFh: Transient Program Area
DC00-E3FFh: Command processor
E400-F1FFh: OS kernel
F200-FFFFh: BIOS code
>>3264884
Speak ye any English?
http://www.classiccmp.org/cini/pdf/Apple/AppleSoft%20II%20Basic%20Programming%20Manual.PDF
Lot drier than the Commodore 64 User's Manual which had a lot of humorous stuff in it to make the novice feel at home.
>>3264662
That's because CP/M was supposed to be running on 8080 machines. It could run on 8085, Z80, or even NEC V20 and V30 ones because those were (or had modes that were) 8080 compatible. Porting CP/M to the 6502 would have ruined it's purpose too.
Anyway, gotta love Granada's soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BBpJzLeiWI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yELMBHs6oZk
The MT-32 arrange sound quite nice too, but some of the tunes sound better in FM, just like the best sounding version of the second ending tune of Sorcerian is the PC-8801 SB2/PC-9801-86 one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOfGBJe_5ZU
This one is really nice too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfIzZ_OP2dw
>>3264681
I should add that most Z-80 machines had a memory map like this except the TRS-80 Model I and III which had system variables, I/O registers, and VRAM in low memory.
There were also turnkey machines like the Kaypro which were designed only for CP/M. But even outside of that, most Z80 machines had a CP/M compatible memory layout. The TRS-80 didn't simply because Radio Shack meant it as a home computer and didn't factor in CP/M support.
>>3265443
Butthurt someone deleted your spam in the Doom thread, Donald?
>>3265417
>The TRS-80 didn't simply because Radio Shack meant it as a home computer and didn't factor in CP/M support.
That wasn't a smart move. Computers like the Amstrad CPC were supposed to be home computers but still supported CP/M. Hell, it was shipped with the disk drive for the 464, and with the 664 and 6128 itself. The MSX2 was also capable of running CP/M too, but it arrived way too late and MSX-DOS could either run programs that replaced CP/M ones, or simply run some CP/M programs because it used many of it's system calls, making it a bit useless on this machine (not that you couldn't do anything with it, just that it wasn't worth the effort).
Anyway, while talking about CP/M, what's your favorite text-based adventure game?
>>3265481
The Amstrad came out in, like, 1984? The TRS-80 Model I was out in 1977, which was very very early and when personal computers were still essentially experimental.
>>3265506
CP/M was already a thing in 1974, and older micro computers (yes, mostly S-100 and hobbyist machines, but still not specificially professional ones) already supported it. And with an ever growing software base, it would have still been a smart move to make it CP/M compatible, so that it would already have more software than competitors on release.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tandy-1400-LT-Computer-with-Battery-and-Manual-/162087737043?hash=item25bd2e96d3:g:Md4AAOSw0gdXTKsU
I've been looking to acquire a 1400LT but they never seem to have a power supply.
Too bad Apple II emulation mostly sucks. And it's not excusable either considering the Apple II is a very simple computer and should be laughably easy to emulate.
>>3267476
There's not as big or dedicated of an Apple II fandom as there is for Commodore machines and what there is of it are generally autists who oppose anything but real (and now very pricey) hardware.
Actually the TRS-80 Model I was mostly slapped together on the cheap by Don French and Steve Leininger, partially due to company insistence on keeping costs as low as possible. Even at just $600, the Model I was still 10x more expensive than most of Radio Shack's wares, which typically averaged $30 and executives feared the risk of selling something that pricey.
"The TRS-80, it was hoped, would revitalize Radio Shack's schlocky image and push them on the path of selling more high value products. Marketing of the computer targeted small businesses, schools, and home users/hobbyists, in that order. Even though electronics hobbyists constituted the largest percentage of RS customers, the company did not consider them a major audience for the TRS-80."
>>3267681
It's true. Most advertisement for the Model I/III along with the software Radio Shack produced for them was mainly business stuff. It's clear they weren't necessarily going for Atari's audience.
>>3267691
This could have been said of Apple, IBM, and even Atari to an extent. Everyone wanted the business market because it was where all the money was and companies aren't going to pirate your software like neckbeards will.
Microsoft for example has always made the bulk of their profits from business sales. Neckbeards will either A. pirate Windows and Office or B. use Linux instead.
>>3267698
The two most important rules of marketing:
1. Never design products for the smart rich
2. Never design products for the smart poor
The smart poor will simply figure out a way to steal your product while the smart rich will buy your company and fire your ass.
A gameplay video of Super Laydock : mission striker:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bGjgRg-aUw
Gotta love that radio speech, and the intro screen is pretty nice looking.
>>3269584
looks fun
Official write-up on the new batch of DB-19 connectors:
http://www.bigmessowires.com/2016/06/04/db-19-resurrecting-an-obsolete-connector/
>>3271178
>Obsolete connector
That shit make no sense. Why would a connector be obsolete? It's just a db connector, it has alway been good enough at what it's supposed to be and we didn't make a huge leap forward in connector technology that would make the fact you'd choose that connector for a modern design a questionnable choice (the connector's scarcity appart, though any good manufacturer would make them or order them from some chinese manufacturer).
Anyway, autistic rant appart, seeing that they're making these again is a pretty good news.
>>3269886
It is. It's not as good as say Zanac or Zanac-EX, but it's still a pretty fun shooter.
>>3271208
>the fact you'd choose that connector for a modern design a questionnable choice
Did you not get that the connector is being used with old Apple/Atari/NeXT computers that NEED that connector to be used? That guy himself designed a SD card-based Floppy drive emulator, and Apple computers used that port to hookup external floppy drives.
No one in their right mind would use that connector unless it was absolutely required.
>>3271532
>Did you not get that the connector is being used with old Apple/Atari/NeXT computers that NEED that connector to be used?
Yes I did get it, but it seems that YOU on the other hand don't get the point of my post -- tha fact that he's using the word "obsolete" to describe a fucking connector, which, by definition, CAN'T be obsolete, as some new designs could alway pick that connector for it's peripherals.
>No one in their right mind would use that connector unless it was absolutely required.
Why wouldn't they? What if they designed some kind of bus for industrial applications that needs a 19 pins, wouldn't it be normal to order some chinese manufacturers some db-19 ports? Why won't they use that kind of connector while many other manufacturer shit connectors that never existed before and don't offer any kind of improvement compared to what was already existing? What you just said made no sense.
>>3271208
>That shit make no sense. Why would a connector be obsolete?
It's not "obsolete" per se, it's just that the DB-19 was not a standard connector type and only a handful of things ever used it, none of them made since George HW Bush was president.
>>3272056
>it's just that the DB-19 was not a standard connector type
It was though, it respond to the D-sub connector standard when it comes to size, pin placement and so on. You could order it from electronic part resellers like any other standard connector. It's just that manufacturers didn't feel the need to use these these in newer devices, so they stopped producing them.
Saying it wasn't standard is like talking about proprietary DIN port when DIN is the German normalisation organism.
Also, like another anon stated, one could alway make one from a db-25 connector with 2 precise cuts and a bit of plastic cement.
Some IBM PS/2s had 2.88MB 3.5" drives, known as Extended Density. The media was quite painfully expensive, but then 1.44MB disks weren't cheap either when they first came out. They weren't all that reliable either.
Writing and formatting 2.88MB disks is also a headache; it takes miles and forever.
>>3272203
Damn, no matter how much people complain about "muh proprietary" shit when it comes to the PS/2, I can't stop thinking that the tower models were pretty damn sexy machines.
When it comes to games, I guess none really used the potential of the PS/2 models (and that some might be worse on MCA models because of the lack of PC-XT or PC-AT bus support), with maybe the exception of some Unix games that might run on AIX.
>>3272274
Most of the extended PS/2 features were comparatively useless for games anyway.
>>3272274
The high-end PS/2s are rare as hell. There were never that many of the things unlike the M25/30/55 which were churned out in huge quantities.
https://www.princetechnology.net/products/hp-ultrium-920-sas-external-tape-drive-eh848a?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=16299146627&gclid=CNKolPn8kc0CFYQ2gQodsWcIIQ
Tape storage is still very much alive and well and it's not cheap either.
>>3272449
Well I think it might be pretty normal, the PS/2 line wasn't something really popular according to what I've read about it. I don't think they're as rare as stuff like the Atari Transputers either, but still it's not that easy to come by.
>>3272326
Well the MCA bus could have been great for games if there was some hardware for them to take advantage. I know that there are MCA versions of the AdLib and Soundblaster, as well as a Roland MPU-401 unit, but if they did more than that (games-oriented graphic cards for example), with the speed of the bus for the time it could have resulted in some really interesting game machine. But seeing how poorly it did in businesses, I don't think MCA card manufacturers even cared for home users (and I think the Adlib, Soundblaster and Roland cards were released just in case the architecture might take off I guess).
Anyway if people in the US really wanted some better-than-the-average-PC machine when it came to games, they would have bought an Amiga (or a Megadrive by 1989).
>>3272563
Well, it never died in the professional world. And even though it's not as cheap as your type-I C60 cassette tapes, it still has a better byte/buck ratio than HDDs. The drives are really freaking expensive though, and those are only worth getting if you have something like a whole library of tape (though they DO sell automated tape libraries with robotic arms that put the tapes in the drives themselves).
>>3272582
PS/2s were plenty popular, but mostly the low-end range. Remember that IBM's name alone was enough to move computers in those days.
>>3261140
A lot of us in the Amiga community are using Goteks now. The convenience, reliability, and everything else is leagues above physical floppy disks.
I have drives and disks over 30 years old. They work fine--I don't see them dying anytime soon--indeed, I routinely see 35 year old floppies. Will there be SDHCs 35 years from now? Heaven knows, CF cards are becoming less common than they once were--and many older CF-based devices can't use ones of more than 4GB capacity.
My point is that we may be substituting one obsolescent technology for another. In particular, devices that rely on 5V logic or 1980s technology microcontrollers (such as PIC) have me wondering...
HXC for me. I don't have any real floppy drives on my Amigas.
Real floppies are nice for authenticity and that retro feel, yet I also detest the unreliability of them and how disk drives are basically analog devices. I detest how a diskette can go bad and destroy a drive by scratching up the head or the metal shutter breaks off and snags inside the drive. I detest having to clean floppy drives or fix them when they get out of alignment. I also dislike the PITA of trying to get files from a modern PC onto an Amiga.
I do admire Goteks for the convenience - stick a USB drive into them and you can transfer 100 ADF images to the Amiga at once and select them from a menu. Floppy disks look cool and are far more authentic, yet with modern storage options it's hard to imagine anyone would still want to bother with something so clunky and unreliable.
>>3273298
The 300 or so working floppy disks I have now will probably last me for a long, long time. Floppy drives can be repaired and I have several spare ones. And of course PC floppy drives can be converted into Amiga drives. However, sooner or later floppy drives and floppy disks will cease to exist since they are not produced anymore, and haven't been made in many years.
>>3273316
If we ever did run out of NOS floppy drives and media, I am a bit of a sucker for authenticity and I wonder why we can't just pay some chink sweatshop to make a couple thousand new disk drives and media every couple of years.
>>3273312
>yet I also detest the unreliability of them
Still had 0 problems with my Amiga floppies (I never played Microprose game though so I don't know what these games can do to your drive). The only floppies i've got problems with were late 90s chinese shit. The "floppies are unreliable" meme come from the C=64 1541 drive, the people who put their floppies on top of their monitor/near their speakers and the late 90s chinese stuff they sold in most store. Someone who take a minimum of care of his floppies shouldn't have any problem with anything but chinese shit.
> I also dislike the PITA of trying to get files from a modern PC onto an Amiga.
Get yourself a terminal program and some batch Zmodem transfert program. The Amiga 600 and 1200 also have a PCMCIA port that allow you to hook an ethernet card, and thus allow even easier transfer. Saying that transfering stuff on Amiga is hard is like saying that you don't know how to actually use one.
>something so clunky and unreliable.
Have you seriously ever used a floppy drive or are you just parroting stuff you've read on the net? Or maybe you only ever used chinese stuff. My oldest floppies are from more than 30 years ago and still work wonderfully.
>>3273330
> I wonder why we can't just pay some chink sweatshop to make a couple thousand new disk drives and media every couple of years.
Because chinese shit is the thing you would never want to get your hands on when it comes to floppies.
>>3273312
For those who didn't know, Gotek is a very common Chinese floppy emulator that accepts USB drives and works on any Shugart 34-pin controller.
Problem? The Gotek is designed with PCs in mind, thus it's hardwired to 512 byte sectors and bog-standard MFM. This is unsuitable for many 8/16-bit machines such as Amigas, Atari STs, and TRS-80s as they either use nonstandard formats or a lot of the time 256 or 128 byte sectors.
However, many retro computing enthusiasts have written custom firmware to allow Goteks to use disk types other than MFM 512-byte sectors.
https://cortexamigafloppydrive.wordpress.com/
http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/
>>3273338
>Because chinese shit is the thing you would never want to get your hands on when it comes to floppies.
But Anon-kun, someday we may run out of working floppy drives and media. There may not be another choice.
>>3273371
You'd do a better job making DIY floppies in your cave with the right hardware than what the chinese did for the 15~20 years they made those.
Also
>nurutu
>-kun
If you're that false-flagging shitposter who's trying to make the people who enjoy Japanese computers look bad you might as well just fuck off.
Floppy drives can be repaired, in fact the one component we may not be able to replace is the R/W heads which really aren't made anymore. Not that it would cost much to make new floppy heads, but it does seem most of the retro computing community has heavily invested in Flash emulators now.
>>3273362
Goteks are cheap but of limited use without being modded. The HxC was actually designed by a retro computing enthusiast from France and can work with a wide variety of disk formats out of the box, but it's also considerably more expensive.
>>3273392
He's not wrong. A lot of the douhou on amigaworld are now using modded Goteks with their Amigas rather than floppy disks.
It's like I said. If it were up to me, I would rather just pay an Asian manufacturer to make us some new floppy heads and disks. Yet at the same time, I feel this is more beneficial for PCs while the totally alien format used by Apple or Commodore disks is a convincing argument for using Flash storage instead. A PC can't write those disks and transferring data to and from those computers is a PITA.
So my argument would more be that I'd prefer the genuine article on a PC or TRS-80 or whatever but on an Apple II, it might be better to just use Flash storage.
>>3273426
TRS-80 disks can't be read by a PC though (?)
>>3273429
Yes they can. You just need a special program to read the disks because they use 256 byte sectors, but otherwise it's bog-standard MFM. Amiga and Atari ST use weird nonstandard MFM fuckery so a PC can't read their disks. Apple and 8-bit Commodores use GCR, also completely foreign to PCs.
>>3273437
Now, here's another important distinction. Although Amigas and Atari STs have nonstandard formats, the disk drives themselves are just an ordinary 34-pin type same as a PC. Of course this is completely untrue of Apple and 8-bit Atari/Commodore drives.
All the same, Flash emulators might be nice in an Amiga/ST simply for ease of data transfer since a normal PC floppy controller can't write their disks while TRS-80 and most CP/M disks are readable on a PC (assuming soft sector double density).
>>3273426
Yes but the autist in >>3273383 argues it can't be done.
>complains about bad quality Chinese floppy disks
>has no apparent problem buying floppy emulators from China
Report and ignore.
>>3273426
Tape drives are still produced, so clearly the tooling and ability to manufacture magnetic media R/W heads is still out there. I believe we could definitely do it if we wished to pay the money.
I'm a little skeptical of the whole idea of replacing floppy heads. Not because it can't in theory be done, but because...you'd have to align the heads after installing them and there are few worse things than trying to align a floppy drive, not least because it needs a special alignment disk and an oscilloscope (!)
>>3273486
You pay an average of $1500 for a tape drive now. You'd probably pay that much just to get a batch of replacement floppy R/W heads made in 2016, not in the least because it isn't a mass-produced product anymore like it was in 1985 so...economies of scale. The manufacturer would charge you a pretty penny in order to turn a profit on it.
>>3273505
It'd be money well-spent. I've heard a lot of stories of Amiga and Atari ST fags with busted disk drives. The poor buggers are 30 years old and finally succumbed to decades of formatting/reading/writing dirty disks, old disks, Chinese shit disks, copy protected disks, and so forth.
But the question is, are we going to run out of working floppy drives in my lifetime. There were millions of 1.44MB drives installed in PCs for 15 years.
>>3273519
True, but then again how many aren't already worn significantly or have been scrapped or are Chinese crap.
>Naruto pics still up
/vr/ is dead.
>>3274597
>not reporting on sight instead of enabling the shitter by responding to it
>>3274597
There's no explicit rule on 4chan forbidding them.
>>3273505
It'd be better to propose such an idea on a site like VCFED, not so much 4chan.
>>3274620
There's one that forbid avatarfagging though.
>>3274653
This show is generally hated by everyone but newfags. Not everyone have the same tastes when it comes to anime on 4chan, but Naruto is alway considered to be a piece of shit.
>>3274653
Because a lot of people hate it and the poster avatarfagging with it had a history of falseflagging to make JPC fans look bad.
>>3274653
It's an /a/ meme. Moot even told them they have to discuss Naruto if someone posts about it.
This is exactly what the poster wanted to cause.
>>3274678
>Kodomo no Jikan
This thing epitomizes everything hated about modern anime, everything Miyazaki warned you about.
>>3273926
/vr/ is truly dead.
>>3274727
Use the report button you fucking braindead retard.
>>3274727
What's so bad about it? Yes the subject of the thread is pretty shitty, but there are alway a bunch of threads like these, nothing new to see.
Hi all
been looking at getting a trs 80 model 2, which i can pick up in the uk easily enough, but there are so few games available anywhere!!!
i never owned one at the time, i had atari, but always remember the tandy stores here in the uk being full of their games for their computer.
And yet there are a pitiful amount on ebay and elsewhere, and even then they are not any of the decent titles.
Is there any particular reason for this?
even on the ti-99 there are plenty of carts knocking about, but why not on the trs?
>>3275145
Hmm, the TRS-80 Model II was a business computer that didn't see any substantial gaming action AFAIK. Are you sure you don't mean either the TRS-80 Model I/III (which had a modest but fun game library), or the Color Computer 2? Model I/III games were all on disk and I suspect there was a lot of piracy; I wouldn't expect to see many on Ebay at all.
CoCo carts do show up a bit less than one would expect, and part of that might be that the installed base seemed to be fiercely loyal -- a ton of people are still hanging on to their stuff even now, including me.
>>3275150
yes its the uk version of the coco 2.
just seem to be none around.
Probably because few people bought one in the UK, same deal with Apple II in the UK, although Apple were ripped a new one by Commodore in Europe for their overpriced RRP policy at Apple.
Let's see, the Model 2.. which could generally run games of the 3 and 4 if I remember correctly.
Good computer. We used to play the Scott Adams text adventures (with voice module), I think I had a copy of Starcross for the TRS-80 at one time, and I thought there was a game of Spyhunter for the Trash-80.
We had the TRS-80 4P (portable) in school you see. Oh, and there was a Flight Simulator because we used to play that on the Model 2.
>>3275178
>Let's see, the Model 2.. which could generally run games of the 3 and 4 if I remember correctly.
Absolutely not. They're completely different systems. Also the M2 used 8" disks.
>>3275180
I'm pretty sure the only games you can play on a Model II are CP/M ones.
>>3275182
There we go. I think maybe Infocom and Scott Adams adventures were released for the Model II, but that's it. A lot of Model I/III games should be doable on the Model II, but would also need to be completely reprogrammed.
If there's any M2 games, they're most likely CP/M but finding ones on a usable disk format (8" SS/DD) would be a problem. It is kind of cool that it had a flight simulator though.
