BUILD ENGINE GENERAL
Shitpost here about your favorite build engine games like Tekwar and Witchaven. Post cool mods, worship Ken Silverman, discuss how blood is the greatest fps of all time whatever.
Useful site for anyone that might want to try mapping or making a mod for any of the build engine games. Tons of useful resources, tutorials, maps, mods, patches and tools for all build engine games.
http://www.r-t-c-m.com/
Here is the file section with downloads for all build games.
http://www.r-t-c-m.com/knowledge-base/downloads-rtcm/
Decided to play powerslave/exhumed after getting the mouse patch for some decent controls. I think its equally as good as the saturn/playstation version cause it might not have as much adventure elements it has much tighter action. The mummy staff is also super badass.
There is already a Blood thread, a Shadow Warrior general thread and a Powerslave thread.... not that I'm complaining because Build is a passion for me, but this sounds more like a thinly veilded RTCM advertisement thread.
>>3280113
I love the DOS one so much. I love the lives system, which is a great change of pace compared to other FPS of the time where savescumming is allowed. It adds tension to gameplay and dying matters, while remaining balanced.
My main complains for the game are: no difficulty settings and no "pistol start" possibility, I understand that keeping all your equipment and getting every weapon one at a time gives a better adventure feel, but it really hinders replayability for me.
I've played the game only 4 times and I feel like I 100%'d it already and know everything there is to know, I think I've found every secret place but it's hard to tell since they aren't marked. Speaking of that there are actually at least 4 or 5 invisibility powerups in the entire game, they are rare and the most hidden, but I love to use it.
>>3280228
Nah I just wanted to get all of those threads into one so we can all be bros together. I made the powerslave thread and I am just going to let it die.
Unrelated not these are easily my favorite enemies in blood. too spooky
Hey Methy, I hope you can read this even as I sage, I did not want to OT on the Blood thread and you're rarely found on the Doom general.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0jNDhBb8SM
I want to ask what is up with this? I only recently found the video by accident and it's been there for more than half a year now. I get it's a rolling demo or something? Because it would be strange to list other people besides 3D Realms. Even so, it's painfully similar to that one build TX uploaded footage of years ago, even if this does have some rendering bugs (probably wrong shading tables). Comments say this was recorded by Hendricks, but there is no trace of the video ever been referenced on the Duke4 forums. Mind explaining a little bit if you're okay? It's great to somewhat make out itsgreen.mid after all these years. And I freaking love the early XPlasma (which Hendricks said it was just Plasma back then)..
>>3280228
also I just put rtcm in the OP because it was the best resource I know when it comes to these games, you know of anything else? I would actually like to get into mapping myself, I used to do it for doom but its so limited and build just has so many fancy tricks.
>>3280421
Sorry I had never seen this video before. Some parts of it I knew, like you said they are similar to the other beta video TX posted, but some parts I didn't know at all (although I knew they existed, I had never seen the flamethrower in action and old expander).
From the looks of it it seems to be from the same betas as one TX posted a video of.
However, the date and the "coming soon 1995" indicates that this may date from before the game's release, probably a press video?
These betas look so interesting. This is this "shit layer" on top of it honestly, I'm speaking of those terrible red-ish and brown-ish textures which they thankfully dropped in the final game (some of those are even textures of the final version except with different colours), and the cheap look of enemies and effects; but there are tons of cool scenery and effects, which for the time were already amazing.
However it seem to lack two of the things that made DN3D famous : the "realism root", as even the city maps look futuristic, and the interactivity.
These betas, with the settings, tones and look, actually look like an actual faithful sequel to Duke Nukem 1 and 2, unlike the DN3D we got which dropped a lot from its prequels and took the franchise into a brand new direction.
Too bad we'll never see these betas ourselves. They should have released something while they could, especially with the trial around the corner... I totally understand the "we'll release something playable we've cleaned up" attitude, but in the end this only seems to mean no release at all, like for Shadow Warrior's Deadly Kiss add-on...
>>3280759
>I'm speaking of those terrible red-ish and brown-ish textures which they thankfully dropped in the final game
I don't know, they make up lots of the atmosphere for me. I just probably played LameDuke to death (I swear FASTWAY.mid goes well with any of those levels), but the feel of wondering a dirty, dystopian, post-apocalyptic world where I just can't trust anything really intrigues me. If the final Duke 3D is 1997 Escape from New York, then Duke betas are Blade Runner. I subscribed to the forums a long time ago but never had the courage to drop the spaghetti and introduce myself around there saying how much grateful I was those betas were finally uncovered. Little did I know I would be giving thanks for nothing.
>and the cheap look of enemies and effects;
While that's just charming.
I'm all for an accurate Duke II sequel by the way. Strange nobody never thought of making a series of maps like that.
A thing I would really like to see, apart from 3D assets galore, would be a port of most maps which had a noticeable decrease in sprite count (just look at 1995's Dark Side) probably because it would drop FPS like crazy. Like a "Duke we were meant to play" mod or something. I hope I can still see other Apogee goods, but nothing will have the same weight as Duke3D's development.
What bugs me is that Gearbox apparently got some prototype enemy assets because they were fucking up redesigns beyond saving, and we still don't.
>>3280815
Is lameduke even worth playing like I see why they refer to it as that the level design looks so bland
>>3280759
Sorry that video was uploaded by Hendricks like you said, it's just that the link you posted is a mirror.
>>3280815
Someone made a map inspired by LameDuke if you're interested
http://www.scent-88.com/reviews/S/slumnoir/slumnoir.php
Not just sprites were reduced in the final version of the game for better framerate, but also structural details as well. Quite a lot was simplified. In the end I guess I was glad they did because i played the game on a 486DX4 100mhz back then, 320*200 with details set at LOW.... pic related but fullscreen.
I'm not sure if I see what you meand with Escape From New York, I love that movie, but I don't see the connection. If you like that movie btw, few days ago I watched LockOut (2012) which reminded me a lot of Escape From New York, except in a space prison.
What advantages does the shadow warrior engine have over the blood engine other than voxels on walls. I want to make a mod but I don't know if I want to use shadow warrior or blood. Blood has secondary fire, 3 armor types, and other neat stuff that would work really well for a mod unless shadow warrior has some huge advantages I should be aware of.
>>3279791
I remember when I was like 6 or 7, watching my cousin play Blood.
For some reason that game scared the shit out of me at the time.
>>3280921
Thanks for the map.
>because i played the game on a 486DX4 100mhz back then, 320*200 with details set at LOW.... pic related but fullscreen.
You overdid it. I could play it just fine on a DX2 66mhz with everything enabled and details set at high (it usually gravitated around 40fps which was more than enough), then 10 years later I discovered there were optimized graphics modes for various brands including my S3 TrioV64 hidden in the .cfg file and still supported by the game, and even though I could see glitches during load screens, it eventually gave me a 10+fps boost during gameplay.
>I love that movie, but I don't see the connection.
I'm talking about the atmosphere, colors, that kind of thing. Shrapnel City kind of deviates from that theme in some maps but it's pretty noticeable on dark areas. Do you at least agree on the Blade Runner analogy?
It looks like LockOut was that much similar to EFNY they had to pay a 70 grand to Carpenter, screenwriter and MGM. Thanks for telling me about it by the way.
How difficult is to make Build maps? I tried making Doom maps, but was a bit frustrating.
>>3279791
does anyone here have a digital copy of the official Duke 3d level design handbook?
i know shit's outdated and probably obsolete, but i'm interested and curious in reading it.
>>3281890
I want to read that too just because its probably a good introduction to mapping.
>>3281724
I don't know how much you can do with SW or Blood modding, but I can tell you that with EDuke32 you can do pretty much anything you want. You can add or remove any of those feature at will, and you can use voxels too (and more).
>>3281861
I've only tried recent Doombuilder but making maps for Doom seem a lot easier than for any Build game. It all work on the same principle (draw in 2D, then in 3D, make effects using a tagging system) but the difference is that in Build games you have more freedom, and as a result, things are more complicated. For instance instead of simply using one tag to make a door, you're going to have to tag the door type you want, depending on the kind of door you want you also need to have built it accordingly, then you need to choose the sound(s) tags, and maybe another tag for speed if needed, and yet another if you want to tell it's opened by a switch or a keycard rather than manual.
For shading you need to Build every surface separately, every single wall and floor and ceiling, unlike in Doom where it's sector based.
Then you have the fact that modern DoomBuilder are very userfriendly, with an interface and controls that appeal to modern standars, and Build games don't. DN3D is the only one which benefits from a level editor that has kept improving is DN3D but even then it's still based on the same old controls and visuals from 1996, with obscure key combinaisons.
Also Building for each Build game is completely different. They all work on the same base, so it's similar at the same time, but they all have a different tagging system, some more or less complicated than Duke's.
It's not HARD to make maps for Build games but it takes some learning even just for the basic controls for the editors.
Once you get basic controls of the editor out of the way, you can start building a map for any game and then learn about the effects tagging system and game specifics as you build.
>>3282372
Would I be able to use assets from any build game I want if I use eduke32?
>>3282384
Yes you can use anything you want, but you may have to either convert to Duke's palette, or convert the textures to another format and use 32bit video mode. I'm no expert on this though.
I know some basic modding things but really not much. I heard that some Doom sourceports had some pre-set functions for modding, like if you want to add a secondary fire to a weapon you can use something already built in ? (Not sure really) but in EDuke32 you have to do everything yourself from scratch. You're better off looking into it yourself and ask the right people (=not me).
But yes you can do anything you want, but most Build games work on a different palette and coding system, so you want to use Blood's weapons or enemies in EDuke32, you'll have to re-code them yourself too. This is the reason why BloodCM isn't accurate.
>>3280113
http://www.mediafire.com/download/z8pba9xnxzjjv2s/Powerslave+EX+v.1.0.0+%2B+patch+v.1.0.1.7z
>>3282464
Are there any lunar base maps for Douk where you actually go outside and explore the Moon rather than it just being a backdrop?
>>3282490
PowerslaveEX is a remake of the console versions on PC.
Post you're answering to is talking about the original PC version.
Both are two completely different games using similar assets. Console ones (and EX) are more like first person adventure platformers with FPS elements, while the PC one is more Doom like with classic Doom-era level design.
The consoles versions have gotten a lot of hype in the past few years thanks to youtubers overpraising it, and even more so now that it got remade on PC... it's amazing most of them are oblivious to the PC version, even though it is a great game.
>>3282497
I agree I wish the PC version got some more attention
>>3282534
Thanks for this its exactly what I want
Who's excited for Bombshell prequel?
They better not fuck this up. I imagine it would be easy for the devs to get lost within the meanders of the engine, trying to go as far as possible with it, which is cool, but can only make one lose track of the most important; in this day and age most people won't care about cool Build engine tricks, they just want classic Build gameplay and level design.
>>3284495
>>3284495
unrelated but you know what I'm looking forward to? romero's upcoming FPS. I believe it has real potential. People have lost faith in romero after daikatana but here's why this game is gonna be different: he stated that he just wants to make a classic style FPS. it doesn't seem like he's interested in making gimmicks or anything else; he just wants to make an FPS rooted in classic style gameplay. I'm really looking forward to what he might achieve and if it's good I really hope it's successful and allows him to build a new AAA development studio that actually knows how to make good FPS again.
and yeah I am looking forward to the bombshell thing. hope that turns out awesome too.
>>3284495
gotta say, doesn't look that bad, the guys making that definitely know how to use the engine, at least the artistic map making aspect.
Is there anyway to change item limits in shadow warrior for a custom map. I want to make it so you can have more gas bombs or is that hard coded in the game code
>>3286879
I don't think SW is as easily moddable as DN3D.
I'm replaying DN3D for the XXXth time, just reached E4L3.
Everytime I replay the game I look at it from a different angle and I like it even more.
A lot of people like ep3 more than ep2, but I think that's mostly due to the city theme.
After replaying both I couldn't help be feel that ep3 was weaker, ep2 has tight enemy placement while in 3 it tends to be all over the place. EP2 also has much crazier level layouts and architecture as well as crazy effects in general. For instance they really went overboard with slopes in ep2 while ep3 feels a lot more squarish in comparison. I think the fact that they didn't have to rely on realistic roots for ep2 made them go wild with their imagination.
ep4, The Birth, singlehandedly defines DN3D. It not only re-defined the game, but also the Duke character and the entire franchise. That episode is full of jokes and parody everywhere, which really weren't that much present in the original game except for the occasional easter egg.
>>3287080
beautiful game indeed m8. I fucking love it.
>>3287080
I forgot to mention, I'm playing in DOSbox and I used v1.3 for the first 3 episodes.
The fact that you can't kick slimers out of your face really makes a huge difference in gameplay, and they become a real threat, they fucked me up a few times when I had to switch weapon because I didn't want to waste whatever weapons I was using.
I also played Come Get Some pisol start, and a few times found myself with no ammo with a pack of slimers in front of me, which could be sure death, so I had to find another path.
I think it's a shame they changed it for v1.4 and final version, because in those versions slimers are almost completely pointless since you can just perform a quick kick.
The double kick of v1.3 makes up for the extra challenge provided by slimers. Although it look silly it's super fun to use.
>>3280251
Too bad these ghosts won't hit you ever if you just crouch.
>>3287213
It's not just the ghosts, it's also the Gargoyles, or the butchers.
But you have to put the game back in its period.
At the time, crouching in FPS was still something relatively new and under-used. Think of how Quake had no crouching for instance.
The very fact that you can crouch, and that it allows you to dodge attacks, was great for the time. Yes, they went overboard with it and it's OP as fuck, but that's probably just because everyone (not just the devs) weren't used to take crouching into account at its full potential.
Besides, with default controls, it's not like with modern controls where it's easy to keep playing and move any you want while crouching at the same time. At the time it was mostly used when your environment needed you to crouch, and for an occasional dodge.
>>3287229
It wasn't intentional. Its obviously an oversight. Being able to just crouch and render the final boss of e1 and all his mechanics utterly useless was certainly not intentional, and I say this as a huge fan of the game. Its unfortunate.
>>3287213
At least you have to be standing in order to hurt them by making them translucent.
>>3287090
I only play duke, sw or blood in dosbox. I think the game looks best that way modern renderers lose some of the charm and some have shit lighting
>>3287526
You can use classic renderer in EDuke32 and SWP so it looks just the same as in DOSbox, and you benefit from better mouse, widescreen, and higher framerate.
Still not the same though and I enjoy using DOSbox too when I can.
>>3287681
bmouse is good enough for me and I manage above 60 fps constantly. I have a pretty good computer once I started playing blood a lot I just decided to play shadow warrior and duke nukem the same way.
Anyone In here use meltdown? Want to do some coop, wang bang, bloodbath or something?
I like sword, thats a personal weapon
>>3279791
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5XQgFRf3ro
I don't even
how do I change the texture tiles for map editing whenever I try to start a map the only textures I can place are from kens labyrinth and I never get the duke or shadow warrior textures even though Im running the editors that came with those games
>>3292095
Copy past the editor in the root folder of the game.
I don't recommend using the level editor coming with Megaton and Redux.
Well, in the rare event that you'd want to make a map for SW, for Redux you don't even have the choice because the version of Build that comes with it isn't fully compatible with SW (you can't edit tags beyond 1 and 2), major fuck up. So you'll want to use SWPBuild instead.
For DN3D you're going to want to use Mapster32. The version of Build that comes with Megaton is the equivalent of JFBuild, Mapster32 is similar but with 10 more years of development and plenty of small things that make mapping easier and faster.
