>Ice type
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You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon
You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon
>Ice type
Type that Game Freak hate
Ice
>Let's give one of the worst defensive type only slow and defensive pokemon.
Bug
>Oh shit we give it a nice treatment in gen V quick make the new type resistant to it, being resisted by 7 type is totally fair.
Grass
>Water type can learn ice type move to cover their weakness, Fire type can learn grass type move to cover their weakness, Grass can only learn grass move because fuck them hidden power will be enough coverage for them
Rock
>Ice 2 peeble boogaloo, steel and ground type are better anyway.
Type that Game Freak love
Water
>Let's them learn ice move so they can have super effective move against the only two type other than istelf that resist it, and let give them a move that has more chance to burn than most fire move and give it a wide distribution. Also the gen VI water starter will be the best of the three.
Dragon
>Let's throw those retard a bone and make a new type immune to dragon, but don't really deal with the real problem of dragons ie giving the type to 3/4 of the pokemon with a bst of 600 and more and a movepool that let them cover everything.
>>25634928
>There are more non-ice type pokemons that can lear Ice Beam and Ice Punch than Ice Pokemons.
>>25635068
Ice beam distribution is such a joke fucking Raticate can learn it
>>25635156
I think it's funny that the ludicolo line can learn ice beam and blizzard, but Scald distribution is completely barred from ice types.
>>25634928
>every type should be the same
>everything should go full circle
Perfect imbalance is the ideal, not a set number of coverage, weaknesses and movepool diversity/base stats for all types. Then the game would literally be the same garbage either with 5 or 25 types. Homogenization is the worst thing that can happen to any RPG or competitive game.
>>25635274
>4 Super effectives
>4 Resists
>4 Weaknesses
>1 Defensive only against other Ice
>>25635310
I never said that every type is in a great state or that improvements can be made, but that whole post(if it's yours) is structured in a way like asking to give the same tools, defensive and offensive tools to all types.
>why doesn't grass learn teh water moves
>why darguns are the ones with the most pseudo-legendaries
Well it's because pokemon is a single player game in its core. Dragons are thematically treated as one of the strongest types and very ferocious. Bugs are generally treated as frail and that's why they stick together.
And I'd be damned if Gamefreak ever chose to shit over the design philosophies regarding each type in order to pander to smogon turds and treat pokemon as a competitive game when it clearly is not.
Ice could certainly use some love though.
>>25635354
The problem is not they cant learn water or grass moves but they can't learn proper Ice moves.
>>25635274
>>25635354
I don't care that type aren't perfectly balanced, but there is some limit, making fairy resistant to bug was totally unecessary, bug is now resisted by nearly half of the fucking type. Also there is a problem when some type get buffed nearly each generation when some other just get worst and worst. Just compare scald to freeze dry, or even the different weather.
There is also game freak who absolutely don't want to play on the strenght of some type, an Ice/Rock pokemon could be a pretty good physical glass canon, but fuck no let make the ice/rock type a special bulky pokemon
>Well it's because pokemon is a single player game in its core
That's become more and more wrong with each generation, since gen 1 pokemon encourage you to interact with other player with thing like trade evolution and battling against your friend was always a marketing point of the game, and now with the console being able to connect to internet it's even easier do so.
> treat pokemon as a competitive game
Fucking Nintendo treat pokemon as a competitive game, have you never heard of the pokemon VGC?
>>25635562
>Fucking Nintendo treat pokemon as a competitive game, have you never heard of the pokemon VGC?
There is a difference between having a competitive tournament for your game and designing your game in order to be a competitive game.
People buy pokemon for the single player. Gamefreak designs pokemon with the single player in mind, and they might give some love to the competitive side if it doesn't hinder the single player experience.
And since you've heard of the VGC, you should also know how many shits Nintendo or the Pokemon Company or Gamefreak really give about the VGC. Zero shits, that is.
Outside of Scizor, is there a worthwhile Bug-type? Mega-Beedrill is a glass cannon, but I doubt it has much viability in competitive play.
There's a difference between having an imbalance and being completely neutered. Poison was mostly garbage up until they released Fairy, as it was only Super Effective against Bug and Grass types. Steel has a literal immunity to Poison-type attacks. You could literally put the types into tier lists in the same way you could individual Pokemon. It's evidently clear which ones are total garbage.
I understand that from an RPG standpoint, they wanted to make Bug an easily-accessible, fairly useful type for play early on. Quick level growth, effective movesets against a plethora of Gym Leaders(take Gen 1 for example, Butterfree and Beedrill both were extremely effective against Misty if properly leveled), but eventually lose their worth as the types change and Gym leaders grow. But that's no excuse to absolutely shit on a couple particular types just for the sake of being 'imbalanced', they need to learn to balance the spread and distribution of stats. I wouldn't mind a glass cannon Ice/Rock type that has legit speed, a Bug type beyond Scizor that actually has decent stats but you have to get via story(anything that involves a special encounter but doesn't necessarily have legendary status).
>>25636334
Heracross
Volacrona
Shuckle
Ninjask
Pinsir
>>25636334
>a Bug type beyond Scizor that actually has decent stats but you have to get via story(anything that involves a special encounter but doesn't necessarily have legendary status)
YES IF ONLY THERE WAS A POKEMON EXACTLY LIKE THIS
TOO BAD THERE ISNT
>>25636334
Volcarona and foretress come to mind.
I'd be fine with grass having shitty resists and super effectives if it actually got impressive support movepools, but as it stands, grass types have some of the worst movepools in the game.
Make more grass-only support moves. Up the spore distribution.
>>25636358
And Forretress and Scolipede
>>25635200
>An attack based around shooting out water so hot it burns things.
>Thinks Ice pokemon should learn it.
Think a little more beyond that it's a water type move.
>>25634928
>we should make a 100Acc rock move with decent damage. What could we call it? Stone Hammer? Rock punch? Actually, fuck it, rock moves should all have lower accuracy.
>we should totally fuck the rock paper scissors mechanic by giving some pokémon massively diverse movepools. But only some, others should have only four or five usable attacks.
>protect shouldn't always fail when used repeatedly because fuck you.
>potentially good pokémon should have abilities that barely help them at all.
I'm not going to lie, ice type is literally a fucking joke. The only good non legendary Pokemon in that typing is Weavile, and saying it's good is a stretch.
>>25634777
>se vs dragon, ground and flying (and grass but who cares about grass)
>resisted only by steel and itself
>overall balanced stats, a bit slow but above avarage offense
remember
only ice get stab for ice moves.
>>25636514
Thye should have make more fire type able to learn scald and less water type. They already did it with move like sunny day or some psychic status move like heal pulse that have a distribution more based on theme than type.
>>25636558
>we should make a 100Acc rock move with decent damage. What could we call it? Stone Hammer? Rock punch? Actually, fuck it, rock moves should all have lower accuracy.
It's kinda sad, I kinda understand that rock move have a lower accuracy because it's a pretty powerful offensive type but when you see that most other type, some that are as much efficient offensively that rock have for the same accuracy way more powerful move or for the same power way better accuracy you really ask yourself what they are thinking.
>>25636726
> a bit slow
That's the problem,stab doesn't matter if you faint before you can do anything. Most of the time a water type with an ice move will be better than an ice pokemon.
>>25636558
>>protect shouldn't always fail when used repeatedly because fuck you.
It shouldn't. The way protect works is great.
>Have Ice as favorite "element" in everything
>...except Pokemon
Ice Beam is my favorite attack though
>>25636334
>I understand that from an RPG standpoint, they wanted to make Bug an easily-accessible, fairly useful type for play early on.
I don't think that was entirely the reason to design most bugs to be like that but that insects are, for the most part, just like that.
It was accommodated to that role in the early game, sure; but making normal bugs as strong as beasts or golems is straight up stupid, bugs be damned.
>>25636900
>It's kinda sad, I kinda understand that rock move have a lower accuracy because it's a pretty powerful offensive type but when you see that most other type, some that are as much efficient offensively that rock have for the same accuracy way more powerful move or for the same power way better accuracy you really ask yourself what they are thinking.
Just hurling rocks is a terrible tactic. Pokemon is not about having competitively balanced creatures.
No worries /vp/ I fixed your shit
>>25638091
That's actually not bad
>>25636334
Worthwhile? Several.
Worth using in competitive? Literally only Scizor because LOL BRABEST BIRB TIME TO DELETE EVERY BUG WITH MUH PRIORITY THIS IS BALANCED
>>25636334
Poison isn't super effective against Bug.
>>25636358
Scolipede basically outclasses Ninjask now. Bulkier, better support movepool, and has the potential to sweep for itself before passing a boost.
Scolipede is awesome.
>>25636659
>Mamoswine
>>25638562
I'd say Ice Type is fairly balanced. If there existed a fast AND powerful, special ice-type pokemon, then we'd probably see how powerful it really is. Greninja with ice beam is really the closest thing we've had to that.
Ice (and rock) are pretty much only balanced by the design of the pokemon of their type. It might be frustrating to see several slow, vulnerable ice types being made, but I think it's better this way.
>>25638647
Ice is much weaker than it needs to be.
>but Ice is an offensive type, it makes sense for it not to be good defensively!
Fire, Fighting and Ground all have plenty of resistances despite being both excellent offensive types and not having their offensive niche cannibalized by the most common Type in the game.
>>25638747
I do agree that Ice could use even one more resistance. Not sure what would be more appropriate - maybe flying?
>>25638817
Fairy. Fuck the borbs.
>>25635900
>People buy Pokemon for the single player in mind
>The recent games have some of the worst single player stories and elements in the series
Whoops! Also why the fuck does is Mega Fug special and allowed to hold items when other Megas can't? If it's not competitive, why are we limited to one Mega per team? What was the point of Megas when Primal Groudon and Kygore disregard those very rules either?
No, stop trying to say Game Freak makes sense
>>25638955
>Also why the fuck does is Mega Fug special and allowed to hold items when other Megas can't?
Because it ate its Mega Stone, duh.
>>25638955
Story is counter-productive to a Pokemon game. Gen 1 and 2 still have the absolutely best sense of exploration and progress because they are at your own pace and at your own whim, instead of being directed by NPCs you don't care about.
>>25638955
>The recent games have some of the worst single player stories and elements in the series
vs zero story
>>25638994
>Gen 1 and 2 still have the absolutely best sense of exploration and progress
>>25638817
Flying makes sense. Ice should also resist Water. These types really don't need more Pokemon resisting it, but it would make sense for them to resist Grass and Bug as well.
>>25638994
>Gen 2
>at your own pace
Because you weren't cockblocked into taking care of that retarded Radio Tower shit before you were allowed to go to Blackthorn or anything.
>>25638988
Why can't I feed my Mega Stone to other Pokemon then? Why is it only Mega Rayquaza?
>>25638994
If story is so counter-productive, why are we still forced to the same 8 Gyms, Elite 4, Champion thing? Why not just disregard those rules and make an exploration-based game?
Some people don't even play for the exploration, they play for the gameplay. Why not make simulators?
>>25639001
Gen VI and V at least had some semblance of writing
>>25639014
I suggest Flying and Normal to give it some similarities to Rock and Steel
>>25638817
Ground and Flying.
Shit, give it Dragon too.
>>25639010
Which games do you think have the best exploration and pace?
>>25639020
No different from Silph Co being required before Sabrina. It's a world event that happens and you have to deal with it.
Not a big deal. Better than every single event in the games being linear like in games afterwards.
>>25639029
Because progression is still important. 8 gyms and the Pokemon League are simple, easy ways to gauge your progress through the game.
>>25639043
I wouldn't say Dragon since most Dragon moves in the games resemble rather fiery attacks like Claw, Outrage or Draco Meteor
Besides, Dragon's only Super Effective against itself. I don't think it needs more resistances less it become a type unusable with itself like Ghost used to be
>>25639054
>Which games do you think have the best exploration and pace?
Platinum, Emerald
BW is more linear but has a good pace, BW2 helped with initial linearity
>>25639054
So you need some useless trinkets to gauge progression and can't just explore the world given to you?
If anything I think Gyms hinder exploration because it makes the games more linear and forced to go in a certain order
>>25639029
>some similarities to Rock and Steel
I get similarities to Rock (essentially its physical counterpart, weather is the same effect, both are weak to Fighting and Steel) but I don't see the parallels to Steel (great defensive type but poor offensive type vs weak defensive type but great offensive type). Normal is a little too much, I don't think it's fair to add another type to the two types they are resisted by and the one type they can't even hit.
It's a minor buff, but Hail should really boost Ice-type Defense by 50% to match Sandstorm boosting Rock Special Defense. And would it kill GameFreak to give them some better Hail abilities? A Hail equivalent to Sand Rush or Sand Force would be fantastic.
>>25639068
Yeah that's the whole point. Exploring is shallow if there are no discrete goals.
>>25639068
I wish you COULD go in any order and the gym roster would change fitting your level
though for example in a non-linear Kanto, starting with Blaine would still be much harder than starting with Brock even though 1st gym blaine would be easier than last gym blaine
>>25639078
The Regis Anon
And yeah, it makes no sense for Hail to not give any benefits to Ice for the 3 generations it's been introduced
>>25639086
The goals can be changed. There could still be an evil team, or there could be specific challengers you're gunning for
It seems a bit too much like, "we can't change this or people will dislike the game" this day and age. There's no real room for creativity anymore
>>25639117
>The Regis Anon
Okay I can see that, but then again we could suggest parallels to Fire and Electric because of the birds.
It's funny to me that Water is so favored while Ice (which is just solid water) gets the cold shoulder.
>>25639117
Yeah, they certainly can. I really liked the Gamecube Pokemon games, despite them being really linear and having no gyms to gauge your progression. I loved how they were almost all navigating through dungeons or complexes (so it still felt like you were exploring) and I think another game in a similar style to them could work.
>>25639152
>Ice gets the cold shoulder
>>25639152
Well Fire and Electric tend to be paired up with each other quite often in Pokemon too
From things like Magmar and Electabuzz to Reshiram and Zekrom
If they're going to push the "Ice is defensive lol" meme, then the benefits of Rock and Steel should also apply to Ice. If not Physical, then maybe Special
Like Ice could resist Electric or something
>>25639155
My issue with those games is the over reliance of Double Battles and forced shitmons to make your teams
Pokemon without the ability to catch a wide selection of bros is not Pokemon to me. X and Y did that perfectly if nothing else
>>25638955
>If it's not competitive, why are we limited to one Mega per team?
Because megas are supposed to be your special partner, your team's ace, the pokemon that stands out. What the fuck would be the point in making your entire team mega evolve at the same time? Then we're back to square one before megas.
>>25639198
I'd accept better that if Megas like Audino didn't exist
It's a support Mega. Why would anyone's Ace be a support Pokemon?
>>25639187
>X and Y did that perfectly if nothing else
I believe that's one of the most under appreciated things about those games. New region with brand new pokemon is awesome and all, but I was so infuriated with HG/SS and ORAS which are remakes and are still limiting you to the regional pokemon with no special additions, even just a few. There really is little point to having 700+ pokemon if you're only limited to the region's ~100 ones until you obtain the national dex.
>>25639230
>Why would anyone's Ace be a support Pokemon?
You know that not everyone hates playing the support or defensive role in games right? I personally like bulkier pokemon that can take hits and have utilities besides solo sweeping everything. In fact, I rather dislike glass cannon "powerful" mons.
>>25639168
Ice resisting Electric actually makes sense because ice is a worse conductor of electricity than water (which is actually a poor conductor but the whole toaster in the bathtub image is more available).
There are a LOT of parallels to Ice with Fire and Electric in the game - the punches, the fangs, the three game corner TMs, etc. The Rock-Ice-Steel trifecta seems limited to the Regis.
I think they could introduce an Ice version of Solid Rock to further the Rock/Ice parallels; the fact it's just a repainted Solid Rock is irrelevant since Filter does the same thing.
Or give them a variant on Fur Coat, halving the ability of Special moves.
>>25639187
I kind of like limited pokemon selection, I think it makes more sense from a design perspective but I can see why others would want to use their particular favourites.
>>25639272
If it were supposed to be bulky, Regenerator would've been a perfect ability
I won't knock some defensive mons like Venusaur and Slowbro because they're doing a good job at being Megas without being powerhouses. Audino is the worst Mega in that regard because it's not being an ace, it's being an assistant
>>25639281
Rock as a defensive type is a meme that Game Freak thinks is funny so a special variant with its just as horrendous counterpart would help Ice be able to stand on its own two feet
The biggest issue isn't how strong it is, it's how frail it is defensively with how many defensive Ice types exist. So benefits should be made to assist those Pokemon than buffing Ice offensively, while simultaneously buffing Water due to the high distribution among those Pokemon
Anyone love this glass pokemon?
>>25640149
great
love all the gen6 designs ngl
>>25640149
Probably my favorite fossil. It could definitely use some more moves though, fucking Power Gem and maybe something to do with wind, like Hurricane or Air Slash.
>>25640149
Cute before it evolves.
