Sup /tr/ainers.
I've come to discuss Game Freak, the future of this board, and the future of Pokémon.
When Gen 6 launched, this board was in a very strange place. It was thriving, probably in the best place this board had ever been in. But for all Gen 6 brought to the table, we also saw some worrying red flags. The watered down difficulty and dialogue, the excessive Gen 1 pandering, and missing features. (a problem notable with each Generation)
The Bank debacle was embarrassing, what with it being a paid subscription to use, and it not even working at first. For the first time, a hack-free GTS was raped the moment Bank opened. The handling of VGC was laughable (moreso when OR/AS launched), they still underutilized Events when they could be used in a plethora of positive ways, such as adding variety to the metagame by giving Pokémon new moves (which they have done like twice since Gen 6 launched), and generating interest in the game post launch.
I could fill an entire thread of everything wrong with OR/AS so I wont even fucking bother, but the laziness with that game was shocking.
Then of course, /v/ showing up along with the OR/AS announcements. Makes sense honestly, Gen 3's primary audience who grew up with R/S/E, would probably be /v/'s primary age range, so of course with the announcements, came the worst of the fanbase. And this board didn't survive. This board is just in limbo now, all the threads die young, and empty, the last remnant of what this board used to be died when the MSPaint threads ended.
Then the treatment of the franchise since then, I am not sure if you've noticed, but is FUCKED UP. Notice how the marketing for Z is in full force, even in the dub, but we haven't even had a new game announced? Shit has been going down over at Game Freak. That much is obvious.
Then this 20th anniversary is the nail in the coffin. Event Pokémon each month, of Mythical Pokémon everyone already has by now, half of which require GameStop visits, and then the rest of the anniversary is dedicated to pandering to people who don't even play the games anymore? What the actual fuck? Does Game Freak give such little shit about us? Let's not forget Masuda's bare-faced lying regarding Post-Game content in OR/AS, and why content that was in X/Y was absent from the newer games.
So I ask you guys, what do you think? Is Game Freak planning something good? What is the future of the franchise? Will /vp/ recover, or will we continue to wither away until we are deleted, and forced into a General on /vg/? What can Game Freak do to redeem themselves, in your eyes?
>>25262725
>>25262719
If you ask me, you're just a retard.
>>25262734
You're part of the problem
>>25262734
this. You shouldn't be so insecure about the series' future. As long as everyone keeps giving them money, things won't die any time soon.
>>25262745
The problem you're making up?
>>25262758
Not concerned about the franchise dying, but I am more concerned about the quality. Will we get a good game, I mean a really GOOD Pokémon game. Or have Game Freak resolved to mediocrity?
>>25262768
Are you denying that Game Freak has the wrong approach to the franchise? Are you denying that the past two years of the franchise have been anything but stagnant, or declining in quality?
I don't understand how anybody could look at OR/AS and not see a problem. If Game Freak continue to make games at that level of quality, then the franchise is doomed.
>>25262778
Good is subjective. I think gen IV fucking sucked, others see it as the pinnacle of Pokémon/
>>25262778
>Are you denying that Game Freak has the wrong approach to the franchise? Are you denying that the past two years of the franchise have been anything but stagnant, or declining in quality?
Not after Gen 4.
Even ORAS was a breath of fresh air compared to that.
The plot in DP was a rehash of 3 and started the "every game must have a legendary as a plot point thing" and the game removed several features and mechanics seen in the previous game.
We haven't reached such a low point yet.
>>25262793
Platinum, along with HG, had by far the most content of any Pokémon game. And B2/W2 I guess.
How in the fuck can you say OR/AS was better?
>"every game must have a legendary as a plot point thing"
Gen 3 did this you tard
>the game removed several features and mechanics seen in the previous game.
Again, Gen 3 did this more than any other Gen in the franchise, this isn't even a debate. Look at the transition between Gen 2 to 3, and all the dropped features and lack of content. Nothing comes close.
The actual fuck are you talking about? Did you mix up Gens 3 and 4 or something?
>>25262805
>Platinum, along with HG, had by far the most content of any Pokémon game.
Except for the part where they had less content than Emerald.
In the case of Platinum the main game was more or less the same in size and play time give or take an hour or two due to the slow speed of Gen 4 to Emerald. On top of that it removed features from both Contests and the Frontier as well as the things you get from them.
As for HG/SS, Kanto was still stripped of what made it acceptable in RBY and FRLG. The only additional content was the BF, Safari Zone and Gym Leader rematches all of which Emerald had in better quality mind you.
But that's Emerald.
Even those two games don't stack up to ORAS because they've not only added additional content and features to secret bases and contests but they've added in several features from previous games like the battle tests and such on top of the sheer amount of Pokemon available in those games it certainly sets it apart from them in terms of content.
An list of the content in each game would be something like
BW2 > Emerald > ORAS > HG/SS > XY > Plat > FRLG
Except for XY it's not even worth listing first games.
>Gen 3 did this you tard
No, Gen 4 continued it and made it a staple of the series. Gen 3 didn't start that trend because it was actually an original plot.
>Again, Gen 3 did this more than any other Gen in the franchise
Not really.
Gen 3 only removed the graphical nature of day and night and the slight changes to the encounter rate that went with it. Which mind you wasn't brought back in DPPt.
In any case bar those nearly everything from GSC was brought over to gen 3 and even the return of several other features such as the safari zone.
Mean while DPPt removed several key features from Secret bases such as battling NPCs of your friend's teams and sharing bases, jamming and combo moves from contests and all of the battle frontier bar the tower and factory replacing them with the battle tower with some quirky gimmick.
>>25262719
>complains about lack of events with exclusive moves, which honestly would just make the game more unfair
>>25262725
>complains about going to gamestop
Make up your fucking mind.
>>25262851
So you're saying that Gen 3 did all the shit you dont like, but you're blaming Gen 4 because that was where it started recurring. Nice.
Also you're retarded if you think X/Y has more content than Platinum, and retarded if you think Emerald had more content than HG/SS.
You forgot the Underground in Platinum, the fact that the Gen 4 Battle Frontier was way bigger in content than Gen 3, the fact that there was online functionality, and that you could actually catch them all again, between two versions. (Gen 3 required 5/7 games to beat the Dex, including fucking Game Cube spin offs)
A lot of Gen 4 was also responsible for bringing back content that Gen 3 didnt bother with, such as fucking Night time.
So don't bullshit me with this absurd idea that Gen 3 had more content than 4.
You also say Kanto in HG/SS didn't have enough content. This may be true, but when you look at the post-game content directly, its actually WAY more than most other games, just spread out across two regions. HG/SS is the only game that has a post-post-game, as in MORE missions and content unlocked when you beat Red.
>>25262873
WI-FI events are indisputably better, and honestly, I'm talking about more non-Legend events that actually adds to the game. They almost never do that, when it should be a staple by now.
>>25262805
>Look at the transition between Gen 2 to 3, and all the dropped features and lack of content.
Not him but all there really was was day and night. Even then it replaced them with other features like natures, double battles, abilities, contests, ribbons as well as a total rehaul of the nigh broken system in GSC.
Even the non transferable pokemon made an appearance in FRLG and Emerald. Hell you could even call trainers in Emerald and that was the game that introduced Gym Leader rematches to the franchise.
The returning features were also refined like berries and such and the apricorn balls were replaced with better acting variants that you could get whenever you wanted as opposed to waiting
>>25262884
>They almost never do that
they almost never do that now, they used 2 do those quite often like once a month too. Its probably cause with the new game coming out they dont care about the meta so they are just saying anything goes
>>25262884
>WI-FI events are indisputably better, and honestly, I'm talking about more non-Legend events that actually adds to the game. They almost never do that, when it should be a staple by now.
Wi-Fi events have never been particularly common for sending out random pokémon with exclusive moves. I would say there are just as many as them now as before.
>I'm talking about more non-Legend events that actually adds to the game.
It only screws up players that can't get the event for various reasons though.
>>25262906
>I would say there are just as many as them now as before.
Exactly. Although, I admit, this isn't so much something Game Freak is getting worse at, just something I think they could to do better serve the fanbase.
>>25262884
I'm not saying that I did or didn't like the legendary plot, just that generation 4 was a complete rehash of generation 3 in terms of story and started the precedent of always having legendaries as a plot point as opposed to an original plot like RSE did, Even Platinum was a rehashed the legendaries being stopped by a third legendary.
It was the generation that stunted the creativity by introducing this precedent.
As for the underground, the amount of content it added was abysmal and the whole thing amounted to a time sink since the majority of it was mining for the gems and placing them underground and waiting for days for them to grow with the added RNG of the layout which may or may not affect the durability of the wall.
If you were to remove these random factors how quickly do you think you would get through it?
That amount is the true content of the underground, to top it off capture the flag wasn't an adequate replacement to battling.
Oh and on the note of gen 3 requiring the GC games? They didn't you could complete the dex with only RSE and FRLG because Lugia and Ho-oh were delegated to events until HG/SS.
>A lot of Gen 4 was also responsible for bringing back content that Gen 3 didnt bother with, such as fucking Night time.
Only graphically, it didn't actually bring back the actual day and night mechanic, please pay attention to the games you're arguing about before you try arguing.
As for the other features that were brought back, well I don't think there were any that weren't in RSE already.
> HG/SS is the only game that has a post-post-game, as in MORE missions and content unlocked when you beat Red.
Oh please, you get a few handouts and the ability to capture four more legendaries and unlike ORAS and XY those legendaries have to big changes to the ones you captured in previous games while in those games at the very least you get a guaranteed 3 perfect IVs. That's one of the arguments used to undermine the content in ORAS and BW2 after all
>>25262884
>the fact that the Gen 4 Battle Frontier was way bigger in content than Gen 3, the fact that there was online functionality, and that you could actually catch them all again, between two versions.
Woah now, hold the fuck up.
Are you trying to say that five is a bigger number than seven?
And that variety in gameplay doesn't matter?
And that the removal of a record hall shared by your friends is justifiable?
Holy shit, you're really grasping here anon. No one liked the Sinnoh Frontier when it was first revealed because it had so much less shit than the Emerald one. The online functionally is also a null point because it didn't change how long it lasted or how much content was actually there since you got the same thing out of it solo or with another player and it also only applied to the Tower and guess which game also had multiplayer connectivity in the tower? That's right Emerald.
The Sinnoh Frontier hasn't got shit on the Emerald one.
Oh and you didn't need any of the GC games to finish the dex you retard. Between all of the Gen 3 games you could get them all without the use of the GC games.
If you're going to use that angle though Gen 4 required exactly six games to finish the entire dex.
Are you Sinnohbabbies really that delusional that you have to try lie to make sure your game doesn't seem as shit?
/vp/ died with Pokemon General
>>25262719
>implying /vp/ didn't nitpick itself to death
Pokemon has always been massively merchandise souless cash cow bs
If you disagree, go to Japan where they pump out a movie every year for the kids. Only English fans think they ever cared, for some reason.
The problem other than GF's incopetence is the kind of people that made their home in vp.
You cannot fix that op and as you can see it hurts even in this thread.
Give up on vp.
As far as I am concerned I only browse the weekly pokemon threads on fuIIchan /v/
>>25262851
>claims DPPt didn't bring back day/night cycle.
>Gliscor is introduced in Gen IV and only evolves at night,
>Drifloon only shows up at the power plant on Fridays
>THE FREAKING POKETCH IS LITERALLY A WATCH
Sorry for getting angry there Anon, but you should actually play Gen 4 at some point because it's wonderful.
>>25263069
Yeah I gave up on /vp/ man, I barely ever post, just wanted to see if I could start a discussion on Game Freak, and the future of Pokémon, but it's already kind of shitposty in this thread.
>>25263055
They do the annual movies in English too. Theres like 19 movies now.
I just want Pokémon to be good again guys, but goddamnit OR/AS has got me down, and we havent had an announcement for Z, and its been 14 fucking months.
>>25263084
Don't bother respond to that guy man, he is so far up Gen 3's ass, it's laughable. He's the exact kind of person I was talking abut in regards to /v/ showing up after OR/AS was announced. Guarantee he wasn't here before then.
>>25263084
>>claims DPPt didn't bring back day/night cycle.
>day and night cycle is the same as day and night mechanics
It would help if you actually read my posts, maybe you would learn something about how shit gen 4 was.
>>Gliscor is introduced in Gen IV and only evolves at nightNot that anyone that started with DP would know because Gligar wasn't available in the wild until Plat.
>>Drifloon only shows up at the power plant on Fridays
Yes and?
Timed events weren't removed you know. Shoal Cave, Slateport sales etc.
>>THE FREAKING POKETCH IS LITERALLY A WATCH
What does that have to do with anything? RSE has a clock that you have to set along with Espeon and Umbreon only being available in them yet you people will claim that they have no time at all.
>Sorry for getting angry there Anon, but you should actually play Gen 4 at some point because it's wonderful.
I have, that's how I know they're shit.
Bought Diamond a few days after release.
Pre ordered Plat and got the Giratina figure
Pre ordered HGand didn't get shit.
And a friend gave me his Soul Silver when he was selling his DS.
I own more and have played the gen 4 games than the gen 3 ones.
It was a shit generation. The only reason I put up with it was because as a kid no one else was playing the previous games any more and I used to complete my games before getting another one.
This case is very fucking simple. Z has a lot of potential and if it fails, Pokemon franchise goes down. Not because muh gen 6 is bad, because we won't be able to count on good games anytime from now on. Z is their last chance to show that they dont make games only for money.
>>25263084
>>Gliscor is introduced in Gen IV and only evolves at night,
>gligar required Emerald to capture and only had an 8% encounter rate
God damn, how did they fuck up that hard
>>25263155
>day and night cycle is the same as day and night mechanics
DPPt did have that. Everything from the obvious visuals to different encounter rates, hell they even added different music. There is nothing gen II had in regards of time that doesn't exist in gen IV.
>>25263043
This
Every flaw found by /vp/ is just autistic nitpicking
>>25263155
You talk like Gen 4 personally shit in your fucking cereal, what the hell.
How you can be so autistically angry at Gen 4, but give 3 a pass is beyond me.
>>25263206
Being a blind fanboy who thinks that every pokémon game is perfect isn't good either anon.
>>25263206
Easy to spot failures arent nitpicks, hell, even normies can tell whats wrong with this dumb franchise
>>25263200
>DPPt did have that.
It didn't, it had the slider in the dex but it didn't do anything for the actual encounter rate.
Well, it didn't do anything particularly noticeable if it did.
As for the music that was an aesthetic change anon rather than a mechanical one.
>>25263215
>You talk like Gen 4 personally shit in your fucking cereal, what the hell.
Gen 4 didn't do anything beyond be the generation that GF realized they could be lazy.
In any case don't mistake this for anger anon if you can't handle people pointing out the flaws you might as well just stop posting. /vp/ needs less of you mindless fanboys.
>>25262719
this board is pretty bad right now thats for sure all these autistic threads and furfags or pedos make me want to never comeback
You all still fail to realize that apart the battling and other core mechanics Game Freak loves to add and then remove features because they think it makes the games unique and make youwant yo replay the older entries.
Yes, all that shit you all keep complaining about was done on purpose, and why I only consider the pokemons themselves and the battling mechanics when deciding which generation is better.
And in those aspects, gen 4 blows gen 3 out of the water.
>>25263337
>Game Freak loves to add and then remove features because they think it makes the games unique and make youwant yo replay the older entries.
The problem being that GF brought over some features of RSE and demolished them anon in terms of mechanics to the point where GF took the fan outcry as reason to remove them in its entirety in later installments leaving us with a game that has barely any variety in battling and content.
>>25263365
Like anyone gave a crap about contests except little girls and faggots
>>25263255
>>25263255
>It didn't, it had the slider in the dex but it didn't do anything for the actual encounter rate.
>Well, it didn't do anything particularly noticeable if it did.
That's just your selective memory, look at Eterna Forest for example. There is no day/night mechanics from gen II that isn't included in gen IV.
GF dont give a shit
>>25263374
>I didn't play it so that means it's okay for content to be removed!
It's people like you that have caused the industry to get this bad.
>>25263419
It's not necessary bad to remove content in the next installment if it was pure shit. Assuming they use the resources to make some actually good content instead of course.
That said, GF removes content for all the wrong reasons.
Good. Pokemon deserves to disappear.
>>25263437
>It's not necessary bad to remove content in the next installment if it was pure shit.
It's always bad because they could improve said content rather than do away with it completely.
That said contests in gen 3 for example actually had some depth and difficulty to them in that you could prevent your opponent from acting that turn, negate their remove all of the appeal they gained that turn even if they got the bonus, combo moves like Calm mind and Psychic.
There was even a degree of prediction in it.
The only thing they needed to do to it was add some online gameplay and it would have been a great alternative to battling.Hell, make a split storyline around it too so you don't have to take the gym route to become a master.
But all of that depth and potential was removed in the next iteration and replaced with Dress up, DDR and RNG judge antics.
I don't really need to go into the frontier and the bases seeing as it's a bit more obvious there.
>>25263337
>Game Freak loves to add and then remove features because they think it makes the games unique and make youwant yo replay the older entries.
Your ass must get jealous of all the shit that comes out of your mouth. There is not a single company in the world that would actively encourage their consumers to keep using an old product instead of buying a new and improved one.
>>25263509
Well there's Capcom.
>>25263503
>It's always bad because they could improve said content rather than do away with it completely.
Not necessary. Take Pokémon Musicals for example, which is awful down to its very bones. It was smart to just get rid of it.
>>25263561
>Take Pokémon Musicals for example, which is awful down to its very bones. It was smart to just get rid of it.
Make it a rhythm game in the same vein as theatrythm.
Simple enough.
Between XY and Black and White the core game hasn't exactly changed much so they could have tried to improve it rather than discard it in its entirety.
>>25263593
Then just drop Musicals altogether and bring back Sinnoh contests, they had a rhythm game and more.
Musicals were a mistake and I'm glad they removed it instead of wasting more effort on it.
>>25263643
>Then just drop Musicals altogether and bring back Sinnoh contests, they had a rhythm game and more.
The DS touchscreen doesn't work well with DDR tier games
>>25262719
Shitty thread.
>>25263660
Then drop having rhythm games at all involved?
I really don't see why Musicals have to stay when they are just a shitty watered down version of contests.
>>25262966
i swear youre baiting anon, im not the same on youve been arguing with but for fucks sake man
First off the underground was in no way as fun as secret bases but it had several other things to it that actually made it usefull for content, for one thing you could dig for fossils in it which is 1000x more interactive than rock smashing the same rock in hope of finding one future generations did. sure tis rng driven, but this is actual content.
day night cycle was in emerald true, did it affect anything but eevee evolution? no it didnt, it did not affect pokemon encounters in any way whatsoever, did hg/ss and platinum do this? yes they did, they even brought back trainers who SPECIFICLY battled you at ertain times of the day.
Hg/SS and platinum both has postgame, main problem is that postgame in pokemon game is nothing but grinding and trainers and let me be clear on this, emerald and ruby sapphire had not a good post game compared to either. Emerald had the battle frontier and a few more mons to catch in the safari zone, altering cave. etc etc.
Hg/ss has another region which can be argued to be the main story, it still has more "events" as in interactable encounters than emerald.
And platinum even has the mt stark quest and the ability to actually catch them all by owning plat/d/p because of the pokeradar. did you think of the pokeradar? didnt think so.
Agreed, OP.
But you're wasting your time; this board is composed of Game Freak apooogists who actually enjoy the taste of shit.
That's how it is, unfortunately.
>>25263701
I don't see why contests have to stay either when they'reshitty watered down versions of battling either.
Actually, removeeverything but the battling, that's the thing they fuck up the least
>>25263509
I don't remember who exactly, but someone of importance at GF explicitly said that
>>25263739
Contests are nothing like battling anon. The goals are completely different. Throw your hyperbole elsewhere. Musicals is taking the first mini-game from the Sinnoh contests and removing the two others. The last one which was the actually decent part. I don't see why you're dead set on keeping Musicals when Contests did everything they did just better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCtJYgsWhZw
>>25263785
I'm not that guy, I advicate instead of stripping features down to the core of the series (battling, collecting) and start from there again.
>>25263509
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/so-does-pokemon-omega-ruby-and-alpha-include-trainer-customization
>It's really meant to give unique traits of personalities to the different regions. So with the secret bases, for example, they're really popular in the Hoenn region,
I find it odd that they even admit to do something as anti-consumer as that but it's the truth.
>>25263800
Oh ok. While I agree that battling and collecting are the best parts of the games by far I'm not opposed to the idea of having another sidegame to use the pokémon in too. I just wish they would have stuck to one instead of shitting out a new one every generation. Contest were decent and if they had just stuck with it as a side feature I think it would have been good.
>>25262768
/thread
>>25262719
>GAME FREAK KILLED /vp/
I wish
>The Bank debacle was embarrassing, what with it being a paid subscription to use
Nigga, its 5 dollars a year, a minimum to keep it working nad you solve all cross gen transfers from now till the Internet stop being useful.
>Makes sense honestly, Gen 3's primary audience who grew up with R/S/E, would probably be /v/'s primary age range, so of course with the announcements, came the worst of the fanbase.
The worst of this fanbase are the ashfags
>Event Pokémon each month
good
> of Mythical Pokémon everyone already has by now
not new players
I agree with the rest, but these are retarded.
> Is Game Freak planning something good?
I dont think they are planning anything bigger than just the next game.
> What is the future of the franchise?
Hopefully they realize the difference between nostalgiafags and actual fans and go back to cater to japanese kids as they always should.
>Will /vp/ recover
/vp/ was always shit. pre-gen 6 wasnt even the less shitty time.
> What can Game Freak do to redeem themselves, in your eyes?
We're just one gen after the best era of the franchise, they dont really need redeeming, people should stop having ADHD. Other franchises had it way worse.
>>25263717
>Hg/ss has another region
Kanto 2 is not post-game anon
>>25263895
>Nigga, its 5 dollars a year, a minimum to keep it working nad you solve all cross gen transfers from now till the Internet stop being useful.
I don't really mind paying 5 for it, but it's far above the minimum. I don't think you know how little resources it costs to keep those pokémon stored.
I also think a bit part of the debacle he was referring to was how Japan had it way before everyone else, although that was blown out of proportions.
>>25263921
That's a bit subjective.
As far as I'm concerned everything after the credits roll is post main story.
>>25263924
> I don't think you know how little resources it costs to keep those pokémon stored.
mantainins servers that should be available to people all around the world is not exactly free. Maybe they can do it with less than 5 dollars, but for a single player, it's still a laughable price. The only problem is that not everyone may have access to payment methods, but that's not really GF's fault.
> he was referring to was how Japan had it way before everyone else
While I agree the delays sucked, Japan getting it earlier is understandable. First because, it has always been that way except XY's release so its not really a debacle, and second because GF is in, well, Japan.
>>25263938
>That's a bit subjective.
It really isnt. If Kanto is post-game, then the main plot in Gen 2 is stupidly short and easy. It compensates for that by having another region. Either Kanto is not post-game or Gen 2 is the worst game in the franchise period.
>As far as I'm concerned everything after the credits roll is post main story.
Credits roll when you beat Red. You also have another champion to beat in Gen 5.
>>25263951
It compensates for that by having another region. Either Kanto is not post-game or Gen 2 is the worst game in the franchise period.
I agree that Johto is so short because of Kanto being in the game. But the difference between short main story + long post game, and long main story + short post game matters very little to me. I fail to see why simple classification determines your enjoyment of a game.
>Credits roll when you beat Red. You also have another champion to beat in Gen 5.
As in when the credits role for the first time.
>>25264001
>. I fail to see why simple classification determines your enjoyment of a game.
It's the judgement, not the enjoyment. Specially if you compare it to other pokemon games.
While most of /vp/ would probably like it, if the main plot took only 10 minutes and most of the content was after the elite it wouldnt be a good game, just an excuse to do quests in the pokemon world.
>As in when the credits role for the first time.
I didnt bring credits up though.
>>25264013
>It's the judgement, not the enjoyment. Specially if you compare it to other pokemon games.
I still don't see why it should matter. I would give HGSS the same score regardless of if I thought of Kanto as post-game or main story.
>While most of /vp/ would probably like it, if the main plot took only 10 minutes and most of the content was after the elite it wouldnt be a good game,
I agree but that's only because I don't think it is possible at all to make a main story in 10 minutes.
>I didnt bring credits up though.
I did, as my line for where main story goes over to post game in my opinion.
>>25264041
>I still don't see why it should matter.
Read this thread, people are comparing the post games of each game. It matters because you're using something that it's not. It's like if we compare each gen's MC designs and I use, say, Steven's design for Gen 3 instead of Brendan and May's.
>I did, as my line for where main story goes over to post game in my opinion.
Exactly, why is the first roll more valid than the second?
>>25264052
>Read this thread, people are comparing the post games of each game.
It's more that people are comparing a games longevity than actual post-game though. Stuff like contests, mirage islands and what not are usually included despite being unlocked in the main game.
>Exactly, why is the first roll more valid than the second?
Because creators usually put in their credits when you have finished the main narrative of a story? I mean you can say that the post-game in ORAS doesn't start until you have beaten Steven's upgraded team the second time but why would you?
>>25263810
I don't use this picture lightly.
