Knights of the Round Table Edition
Previous Pantokrator: >>135301779
Dominions is a fantasy turn-based strategy game created by two dudes. One of them is a teacher.
The game combines a simple presentation with an extremely wide array of strategic options, including over 2800 units, 800 spells and 300 magic items. Turns are resolved simultaneously, with players planning battles rather than directly controlling them.
It has simplistic graphics but is easily moddable and extremely deep.
Basically, it's an autist’s wet dream of a strategy game.
>Steamgroup
Join the steamgroup for multiplayer
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/vanheimageofvidya
>Group chatroom
steam://friends/joinchat/103582791434709795
>Our work-in-progress wiki
http://dom4.wikia.com/wiki/Dominions_4_Wiki
>Our pastebin, now with UI mods!
http://pastebin.com/dHdZ1cch
>Dom4 Manual
http://jaffa.illwinter.com/dom4/manual_dom4.pdf
>Dom4 Inspector
This is a community resource that has every unit, spell, and item in the game in an accessible database.
http://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspector/
>Play by email guide:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=202096551
>Debug Mod:
For testing battle formations and spells
http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/debug-mod
>Where do I get it?
It is available on Gamersgate and Steam. Desura is ded.
>THE BASICS
>Read the manual
>Read the wiki
>Read the pastebin (it's new once again)
>Positioning and scripting your troops
http://lparchive.org/Dominions-3-%28by-Lilli-et-al%29/Update%20254/
Submit completed games here:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1jHX_ZoJi6zIvDq6ANdp-W1Y89W5_fmShuDyHmAj5qC4/viewform
Results Here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dlrvyEqLFYIaXRc49TheMmfdoP8jEh1m5rZJHJAzDWQ/edit?usp=sharing
>>135568416
Go back to modding, you have more work to do.
>>135568416
Really, the lances should be angled down if the horse is rearing. And the rider leaning further back to compensate for the weight shift.
>>135568416
>>135564971
I like the buff spells. Are units other than cav affected by them?
Cloak of Ygraine is Alt0. It shouldn't be.
Bewitchment is named Confundo for some reason. Why are the Brits suddenly using Latin?
Are Logrian Wise Men supposed to be back to 90 gold for 1E + 1 random instead of 140 gold for 1E + 2 randoms?
Mother's randoms are (AWE).25(N), probably a typo.Do you want me to try any specific strat in wittymeme? I can still change my pretender./spoiler]
>>135568827
Blame Shillwinter because it's just a painted-over version of their sprite.
>>135568853
Cloak of Ygraine is alt0
Hotfix coming out to fix that in 5 seconds.
Mother's randoms are correct. Giving them the n random autocalc-spikes their goldcost.
Logrians having two randoms was a mistake. I fucked up the #clearmagic command. Man was not meant to have foreignrec E2A1 access.
The buffs work on anyone that isn't mindless. Once spec starts working I'll also block constructs and the undead. They're just tiring and low aoe, so it's not great to use them on chaff unless you send out a lot of mothers.
>>135568574
Pythium, are you in the chat? If so, I would like to talk.
>THE BASICS
>Read the manual
Why is this still in the op?
>>135569440
because it's still true.
>>135569293
Which chat?
Sorry for the stupid question, but I'm new around these parts; I used to play Dominions elsewhere.
>>135569884
steam://friends/joinchat/103582791434709795
this should be the vanheim chat room. Just pop in there and I'll be waiting.
>>135569884
>I used to play Dominions elsewhere.
>I used to play dominions in singleplayer for 6 months
>>135568853
>>135569217
Hotfix up now. If you have both, the fixed version is summodnations0.54a
If not ... just use summodnations0.54a.
>why are the brits using latin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_conquest_of_Britain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_King_Arthur#Early_sourceshttp://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Confundus_Charm
>what strategy should I try
Whatever you want. This should make cav better, so try to leverage cav and buffs, see how unreasonable it gets so I know where to go from here. That said, the buffs and spells also work decently in support of a
>chivalry is dead
playstyle.
One thing that didn't make it into the mod was a battlefield version of sleep that only caused ~25 fatigue. The new patch screwed up several modding commands.
>mfw lossless expansion in LA
>>135569217
Wardens would probably like Air Shield buff, something like Jomon's Fear-not sign.
>>135570090
ragha a shit
>>135570214
Not even ragha, just my prophet and crossbows managing to snipe leaders by luck before any melee combat occurs.
>>135570209
Maybe, but it's not like man has trouble preventing arrowfire with moderate research.
>>135570427
Protective Force. It's a good way to simulate 'being good at combat', just like the ol' handless shield in dom3. Also more atk and def wouldn't go astray. It's not like people bless them or anything currently.
>>135569814
It's literally listed as the first thing a new player should do, which seems trolling at best or idiocy at worst.
http://blitzserver.net/matches/view/91
>the server downloads mods for you
>the server downloads map for you
>the server downloads your turns for you
>accept the machine-slavery and join the fucking game
>post in thread when you've joined the game
>play in the game
>have fun
This has been a message from third test ermor.
>>135571409
Happy Saint Patrick's! I drew him and a leprechaun.
>>135571385
Are you clinically retarded? The god damn tutorial is in the manual, half the answers to any question you have is too.
>>135571385
If anyone seriously thinks that the first thing they should do is read the entire 397 page manual from cover to cover like a fucking novel then they're either too stupid to play Dominions or just autistic enough to love it.
>>135571704
The tutorial is really, really not a point in favor of the manual, anon.
>>135571704
The tutorial is idiotic and frustrating and from roughly 1990, you learn far more by watching any of the lps, even the shit ones. I get that a lot of people like this game because nostalgia, but that's not an excuse to drive new players away from the game with this shit.
>>135571862
>If anyone seriously thinks
The tutorial is in the manual and they might think that they actually need to do that and learn all the formulas or whatever to play the game, which is simply untrue. You only need to reference those things if there's no better-written guide to it and you want to know the communion fatigue mechanics or something.
>>135571497
I might. When's it going to start?
>>135572060
Whenever moggers starts it.
Since you're an actual person posting in the thread, as opposed to a faceless person adding a pretender at random, i'm sure we'll wait for you. As far as i'm aware, the map is up for negotation also.
If we get enough people, we could play Glacier Bay.
>>135572052
Honestly, the solution should be to recommend specific parts of the manual, ideally in the pastebin. Something like:
Basic UI tutorial: pages (-)
Basic Strategy and Mechanics: Pages (-)
See also: Guide 1, Guide 2, Guide 3.
>>135572185
Like I said, I might. I try not to play more than 3 games at once, so I'm waiting to die in one. Right now I have a capital full of birds and cast leprosy and blight on random enemy provinces whenever I have enough gems.
>>135570082
Are Roman occupation of Britain in 1st century AD and the fact that medieval monks were generally writing everything in Latin supposed to be arguments for British witches casting spells in Latinor is it just a part of the Harry Potter joke? I'm not even sure if there's any piece of information in Dominions' lore about TNN ever bordering Ermor, much less being influenced by them enough for Romano-British culture to arise as it happened IRL.
I know I'm probably overthinking it, but a single Latin name in the spellbook where almost everything else is in English just seems weird. Especially if it doesn't really fit.
Noted the strategy suggestions, more or less what I wanted to do.Thanks again for agreeing on the magic-recruit unicorns.
>>135572516
That sounds less fun than testing the blitzserver in a fresh new game.
>>135572865
The best I have is that Logrians are of Ulmish origin, so it likely borders Ulm, and Ermor conquered Ulm at some point.
Moreover, the historical arthur is believed to have existed in the era right after the roman withdrawal from Britain. I wound up doing a pleasantly large amount of reading into King Arthur in making these changes, even if much of it didn't get into the mod.but its also one of two harry potter jokes in the mod
>>135572865
The romano-british are a very large part of british history, and arthur is typically talked about as a member of that era. The effect of rome (and the idealization and worship of rome) on both france and britain is so large there's nothing that is really able to conceptualize it.
The spell, though, seems more like a harry potter joke than a reference to that.
>>135568416
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=NEWLAGAME
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=EAGAME
reminder to update the wiki, test out sum1's mod and mogger's new blitz thing
>>135573256
>one of two harry potter jokes in the mod
Oh godyes.
>>135572516
>Honestly, the solution should be to recommend specific parts of the manual, ideally in the pastebin
Why. Seriously, why. LPs do a better job of describing basic game mechanics, by far, and the guides/discussions of communions and things provide a MP-focused perspective that the manual notably lacks (it implies things about the game that are manifestly untrue).
Writing a series of guides aimed at newer players might be useful. Telling people to read the manual or even sections of it in order to learn how to play doesn't strike me as such at all.
>>135573891
maybe you should read the manual to find out
>>135573256
>le cultural reference XD
I was worried when the mod started adding frivolous things that weren't balance, but this confirms it. Summod won't become a comprehensive balance mod because it's going to become another total overhaul that reimagines the whole game with no regard for the tone of the original, or general good taste.
>>135574075
50 HOURS OF SP
>>135574187
All the current balance mods are shit because shitters like you take the existing vanilla game as a holy grail.
I don't expect that to change with summod, which is why i'm dubious of it in general.
>>135573891
>LPs do a better job of describing basic game mechanics, by far
I haven't seen many videos of people playing dominions, but those I have seen assume that players already know the basics of how the game works.
An intelligent and perceptive player could figure out how to play from that, but such a player could learn without a tutorial anyway.
Could you link a good example of a LP which actually explains how the basic mechanics of the game work?
>>135574351
The existing game isn't a holy grail. It has a lot of balance problems, which is why a balance mod is a good idea. But "not enough fandom references lol" isn't a problem that it has. It's not, in fact, a problem at all.
>>135574187
I kinda like mods like David88's visible sites or Amuy's more gems. They make big changes, but the goal is absolutely clear.
>>135574371
If you'd like I'll see if I can't find a microphone and do one Monday or Tuesday. Is this something people actually want, though? Scripting out a proper tutorial LP is easily a few hours of work.
>>135574498
It's not like the spell was added specifically for the reference, it's just a jokey name for a spell which was added to give MA Man better battlemagic.
>>135574498
>"not enough fandom references lol" isn't a problem
You're satisfied with just Fordo Boggit and some DnD trolls?
What about Maerlande's thing with his son (likely destined to be unfinished, but still)
>>135574782
The trolls aren't a reference, they just take inspiration from another source. Fordo is dumb but very rare, so not terrible.
>>135574747
It's named as it is specifically for the reference. And t he name is something that you'll see every time you play MA Man, jumping right into your face in bright purple.
>>135574696
I don't know if people want it.
Since you (or some other anon) were saying the manual's tutorial was shit, I'm asking where a better tutorial is to replace it.
>>135574696
>Is this something people actually want, though?
Yes, basically everyone who ever visited the thread but was overwhelmed by the amount of >words in the wiki and repelled by 'it depends xD'.
>>135574835
>Maerlande
>In the hospital for an indefinite period
>Being sued for divorce and custody by his wife
"likely"
>>135574187
>>135574351
Guys I can't offend both of your tastes at once. Please figure out a way for this to happen.
>>135574498
The extent of the cultural reference is a renamed spell that was already intended to be in the mod, and is only obvious because I literally made a post explaining it instead of just talking about the roman influence on britain. Absent this ex-parte explanation, I'm not convinced it destroys tone. If it really does to the point I get comments from people to whom it wasn't explained, it'll be renamed.
Personally, I think it's fine for people to put in a little something for a laugh sometimes.
This is not a serious game.
>>135574985
Well, there isn't one. Largely because making one would be a lot of work.
>>135575020
Okay, I'll write out a simple lesson plan, probably over the weekend, post it here for critique [quote]and get literally nothing, probably[/spoiler] and then do my best attempt at curtailing my Solano accent for fifteen to thirty minutes. Looks like my Masters in Education will finally come in handy.
>>135575396
control+s in the reply box, friend
>>135575396
>write out a lesson plan
Maybe send it to a couple people for review before you make it, too.
>>135575156
>Absent this ex-parte explanation, I'm not convinced it destroys tone.
Absent that, it's weird and kinda inexplicable – in a game already ridden with confusing stuff, in a mod that (due to modding limitations) already has difficulty conveying the more complicated mechanics. It's not actually some terrible thing that makes the entire mod worthless, but do to many things like that (or a few that get a lot of attention) and you're making your mod controversial for no good reason, which means people (like me) who generally like it will get to use it in far less games.
>>135575501
>>135575396
I'll review a lesson plan. And/or write a script if you want one, i've done scriptwriting for voice before.
>>135575396
>Well, there isn't one.
Then make or find one before asking why the manual is in the OP.
It's the best we have, that's why it's there.
>and get literally nothing, probably
If I see it I'll take a look.
>>135575479
I know that. I don't use it because it's faster to type it out than to highlight the text snippet. But... It seems my brain isn't as coordinated as my fingers and went to something else in brackets that I often type.
>>135575501
Like who?
>>135575893
Cool, thanks. A full-on word-for-word script would probably get too mechanical when I'm actually reading it, but little bits and pieces might help. Suggestions for details or aspects of what to cover could be handy too, I'm not properly working on it until at least tomorrow afternoon, but probably later, but I've got a little note document up now and will record any suggestions.
>>135576071
>asking
Your tutorial is shit and inferior to watching maerlande ramble on about the game and do things in it for 15 minutes.
Compared to an actual tutorial (in either the education sense or the videogame sense) the shitness can only be described in mathematical notation.
Telling new players that it's a good idea (and not even 'the tutorial in the manual' but just 'the manual', all 397 pages of it's glorious autism) means you, yourself, are shit.
>>135575639
Clicking on the spell tells you what it does, just like every other spell in the game. Not much less transparent than "Hydrophobia," "Astral Geyser," "Tartarian Gate," "Living Fire," "Hidden in" or many other spells in the game.
Of course, if somebody wanted to make a transparency mod which does nothing but rename spells and descriptions to be more obvious, e.g., Hydrophobia->Mass Rage. I'm not doing that, though.
Despite my defensiveness, though, I'll take your warning to heart vis a vis making it controversial for no good reason. Any future references, to the extent there are any, will be on the level of subtlety of the other reference that nobody has picked up on, and definitely not on the level of penis.tga
>>135576782
The spells you refer to are phrased poetically. Not really the same thing.
>>135576956
So?
>>135577343
Poetry is high culture for sophisticated adults such as myself. Harry Potter is mainstream shit for little baby sheeples.
>>135576782
>penis.tga
It's penis1_a.tga
Also 1_b, 2_a, and 2_b, in what I can only assume are attack poses.
>>135576782
>>135577343
Using a rare english word isn't really the same as naming a spell in latin for no reason, and not even particularly good latin. 'Bewitch' isn't used much in english, which follows the theme of spells having odd but still english names. 'Confundo' is bad latin, not english, and pretty clearly a harry potter reference as opposed to a spell name from dominions. It's jarring, and unnecessary. Like if you were going to name some spells in latin, sure, but better latin and more poetic latin, like the english names.
>>135577549
>pretty clearly a harry potter reference
You say, after explicitly being told it was one.
>>135577487
Well, I hope sum1 knows to write all non-literal future descriptions in iambic pentameter to satisfy your cultural urges.
Kyonai remember to take your turn
>>135570082
All the MA Man buffs are castable for every nation. I assume that's not intentional.
>>135577549
The appropriate harry potter reference would have been Confundus, not Confundo.
Also, I will give 5 dollars to anyone who creates a mod that renames all spells with harry potter pseudolatinate equivalents.
>>135577892
>rename all spells with harry potter pseudolatinate equivalents
This actually sounds fun. Would play.
>>135577892
Bodius Etherealialius
>>135578094
>Corpus Aetherus
>>135576886
Baka
>>135577726
I'm literally doing it right now.
Guys?
>>135577892
Only if you give the spells a sound effect where they say the pseudolatin when they cast the spell.
>>135577808
Fixed. I apparently screwed up removing the commenting I was using to make it a test version.
That the most controversial aspect of adding 6 national spells, an item, and a functional roundtable mechanic has been that one of the spells was renamed is actually pretty good to hear.
To preserve theme, I'll probably do what
>>135577892
suggests and rename every spell in the game to pseudolatin for consistency, to make it less jarring.
Anyways, gotta go. If there are any future issues I'll fix them tomorrow.
>>135578239
HA! I didn't realize Margi had staled
>>135577623
I'm not the guy originally complaining about it.
>>135577639
You should probably strawman harder, that will get your point across.
>>135577892
99% sure they say 'confundo' when casting the spell
>>135578239
Mari attacked people at random and got trounced, they're still in the game but have lost units. No idea what r'lyeh is doing, pretty sure they haven't fought anyone.
Meanwhile Kyoshiro Tohdoh and the bulk of the jomon army have just slipped through the mountains to escape the abysian/agarthan encirclement.
>>135575115
He's out of the hospital.
I haven't actually watched it myself, but I heard it had a decent overview of basic mechanics.
Officially looking for a R'lyeh sub now.
Post if you want it.
>>135579592
please tell me it's MA
>>135579715
Not even a little bit.
>>135576487
>Your tutorial is shit and inferior to watching maerlande ramble on about the game and do things in it for 15 minutes.
If you think it's superior, post a link.
If people agree with you it'll probably go in the OP.
>and not even 'the tutorial in the manual' but just 'the manual', all 397 pages of it's glorious autism
The manual is also a source for plenty of things which do not have better available resources.
>>135579825
then fug u
>>135579715
>>135579825
at least it's not EA.
I could play it, but i won't be at home this weekend
if on monday you dont have a sub i will do it
>>135580891
If you can do a turn now, i'd be fine with a delay over the weekend. (playing in that game)
Also maybe a sub for mari unless he can say what he's doing in the thread
>Suddenly the Roc swooped down and flew away with one of your elephants
Has anyone else ever experienced this feel?
>>135580891
I'll postpone the turn.
>>135578246
MUH DICK IS DIAMONDS.
Maybe we can pay Maerlande to do the voicework too?
>>135581538
I think he's here now, so let's get this turn in and then postpone the next one.
NewCool Bogarus: Are you in the thread?
>>135582415
Yeah, that's a good idea, but he might not have time to do it now.
Either way, tentative R'lyeh let me know if you want the slot.
>>135579592
>R'lyeh
wew
>>135578239
>TheNewStale
>>135583641
Also, about the message you sent over email, i'm Jomon and the person who probably stands to gain the most from them being set AI, but i'd prefer a sub. I dislike AIs intensely.
>>135584536
It's not my preference
So I tried play a bit of singleplayer on a pirated copy and I was doing alright against a single AI but now in year 4 I just got the message that my god has been vanquished and the enemy won. There was literally no battle or assassination or anything. I still had plenty of provinces, I have no idea what just happened.
>>135589058
You win by taking the thrones of ascension (hence the name) so it sounds like the AI just got enough of them to win before you.
>>135589058
With only a single AI, it might also have been that his dominion outmatched yours (no white candles, only black enemy candles), so you were domkilled, and as the only remaining nation the AI won.
>>135589058
While >>135589284 is most likely, it's also possible your dominion was wiped out.
If you have no friendly dominion left (white candles) you immediately lose, regardless of provinces or anything.
>pick a heavy bless nation
>the game feels simplistic and boring
>pick a mage communion nation
>the game is challenging and fun but scripting 100+ mages becomes a chore
Guys where's the middle ground? Who do I play?
>>135589680
MP.
Also, ctrl-1 while hover over orders, then press 1 while hovering over a different set of orders, voila, you have le copied le mage script.
>>135589680
And to expand on what the other guy said, you can ctrl + (any number) so you can have 10 different orders copied
>>135589680
Also, play someone like Yomi, EA Atlantis or similar, where your good mages are essentially a thug-in-a-can.
>>135577549
I told him it was bad latin, I even told him what the right Latin was, but we ended up with the present "I confuse" rather than "to confuse".
>>135579101
They would if they're conjugating it correctly.
Reminder to PLAY YOUR TURNS REEEEEEE
I did play all mynon-domgturns.
Which is the equivalent of MA Ulm in the Late ages?
I want hordes of heavy armor crashing into fragile enemy mages
>>135593124
La Ulm?
>>135593124
We should play a game some time, i'll play a fragile mage nation, you can play MA Ulm. I think it will be edumacational.
>>135594542
I can join as Ermor. I mean, there's nothing more fragile than a body that's just bones
Rapturous R'lyeh and standardeagame Agartha play your turns
>>135594757
Nah spectators have like, more than human hp, that's tough, right?
In fact, he should pick the nation. The fragilest, magiest nation he can think of.
>>135594934
Bandar Log?
>>135594934
>>135595004
Nah he should definitely play R'lyeh and kick ass and chew bubblegum
>>135595004
>tiger riders and elephants and bandar
I suppose their mages are fragile though.
I'm 100% serious, me, him, him Ulm, me whatever is the most fragilest most magiest nation. Should be fun. We can use the blitzserver!
>>135593124
More seriously, if you want to know what nations have very high-prot troops, just go to the Dom4 Mod Inspector and search for national units in the Late Age with prot >= 18.
Mind you, the prot still doesn't really matter, but that's how you find it.
>>135595403
Of course the prot matters, it's just that those "fragile enemy mages" will still penetrate deep and hard into him and his troops
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=wittymemename
>>135595635
>has 'meme' in the name
>will be populated with huge faggots
>don't feel like turn12 bot or ais for days
>>135595459
Okay, it matters, but it doesn't really matter whether you as a nation have access to Prot 16 or Prot 18 compared to, say, whether your infantry actually knows how to use a shield (looking at you, Marignon), or whether their encumbrance is so high as to make them useless in later parts of the game.
>>135595684
>enc
What does enc have to do with 'late in the game'? Maybe you mean in SP?
>>135595760
>not knowing the amount of fatigue a unit can rack up due to enemy mages increases as the game goes on
Chill auras, heat auras, Rigor Mortis, grip of winter, etc, etc, etc
>>135596001
..and that has anything to do with enc? Those spells rack up fatigue fast enough - and are usually layered - that it means enc means even less in battles with them up. Also when they do go up usually there's enough chaff (summoned or otherwise) that low vs high enc doesn't really matter.
Have you. ever actually used them?
>>135596001
I mean, the only time it does matter in later battles is if troops can cut through skelespam without going sleepy-times. Which is pretty rare in general, a situation where it's on the tipping point between number of mages vs number of troops that enc actually comes into play.
Therodos, we need to talk.
Berytos, why do you hate elephants?
Formoria: No can do.
>>135596686
They cost 100g each and decimate your own army if one mage casts Terror. The question might be why you like them so much. Not that I am Rapturous Berytos, but they're a double edged sword at best. At worst, just a liability.
>>135596686
>tfw lonely existance
I've only seen 1 other player so far
>>135596502
on multiple occasions to win numerous battles, and it usually helps a hell of a lot more if the enemy already ends up with way more fatigue than me.
>>135597025
Is that you, Mictlan?
>>135596973
Not an awful lot of indie province mages casting Terror.
Ah, welcome to the game that those in it should not have joined. Coming in at just the end of the first year, one of the nations with elephants - and thus one of the strongest expansion nations into indy strength 9 - has elected to go AI. Our dear friends Berytos.
Apparently Tien'Chi managed to shank them so hard they just lost all the will to play. What a shame Tien'Chi didn't shank Xibalba instead.
>>135597126
Maybe, maybe not
>>135597441
>Apparently Tien'Chi managed to shank them so hard they just lost all the will to play.
I didn't really do anything. He just ran his awake expander headfirst into my expansion party and got chopped up.
>>135597959
How shitty is his pretender that it gets killed by an expansion party? (alternatively, was he stupid enough to run his pretender into your dominion?)
Not sure if I've misunderstood, and it's kind of important, so:
True or false: You only need to siege someone's last fort, not take it, in order to take away all their income.
>>135598063
He had a N4B4 Black Bull. Just ran straight ahead, trampled a couple of my dudes, then got gangbanged to death.
>>135598063
>>135598323
Also, don't underestimate TC's sacreds, especially with a W9 bless.
>>135598313
I'm pretty sure that fort under siege still provides a half of province's regular income.
>>135596580
Encumbrance is pretty important for elite troops with very good defenses. For example, many cap-only sacreds.
They usually live long enough for fatigue from attacks to start becoming a factor, and their cost means they'll often be facing 5-6 times their number in humans, if not more.
>>135598973
Not him but their natural enc doesn't really matter late game much (it's not 100% irrelevant but it's close). Unless you're playing against a very bad opponent, he'll either use evos to kill them before the fatigue starts doing anything, or use spells to rack up the fatigue a lot faster than what the enc does (or he's doing both of these things)
>>135598973
Very few sacreds need to do that much fighting. Endurance sacreds, which are rare, and giants, mostly. That's.. a very edge case.
>>135597046
If you're relying on innate enc to tip them over 100 before they reach your mages, that's one hell of a fine line, and I am sceptical. Usually, you just bring enough trash that there is no doubt.
>>135599597
it's only been a factor a handful of times, but it's been a factor often enough that it's something I always keep in mind.
As the person who originally suggested that enc matter, I concede the point that it doesn't really, past the late early game. Ah, well, you live and you learn.
>>135598323
So he had an awake god that lived for 10 turns, managed to expand into around that many provinces, while also being on a nation with elephants . . .
What a fucking baby. I bet half the players in the game would have traded positions in a heartbeat.
>>135600893
Yeah I've lost awake expanders earlier than that in nations with mediocre expansions and still ended up the largest. What the hell.
What's the most cancerous Dominions thread on Steam forums?And why is it this one: http://steamcommunity.com/app/259060/discussions/0/46476145330811027/
How are you supposed to leverage the mages of EA Ulm? I can see the standard pure E fare for shamans and smiths that get an E random, but what about the rest of them?
>>135603141
E/F: MAGMA
E/A: RoS traps
E/D: Fucked if I know
E/W: Rust mist (Don't hit your own shit, but dual wielding infantry vs damaged armour is sweet)
>>135602856
>achievements and trading cards
How awful. I expect there's something worse, but I'd rather let you win than find it.
>>135603141
>smiths
E/F gives magma bolt, which isn't completely terrible. E/A gives rain of stones, you'll likely need a decent supply of these. E/W gives frozen heart. None of these are great options and none of them are worth 105 gold, but you make do with what you have.
>shamans
E/D and E/N, I have no idea. E/F I covered with smiths.
I think Ulm wants to rely on their strong (and stealthy) troops buffed by the lucky randoms, and just leave the other mages at home researching if possible.
Think MA Pangaea, not MA Ulm.
>>135603449
>>135603578
The cap only E2N2 Antlered shamans good for anything?
>>135603989
Yes, give them a thistle mace and they're E3N4 after selfbuffing. Use enough to cast all the N goodies on your troops.
>>135603989
You can always use them for site searching
>>135601135
>A militia hits you for 20 damage on your awake vampire queen
>>135603141
Christ, I could write an entire guide dedicated solely to EA Ulm's mages.
Short version: Earth is the core of the nation. Learn to love it. You'll occasionally/eventually get A2, F2, W2, D2, and N2. Send them out to fight.
Forge Skulls of Fire, Skull Staffs, Thistle Maces, and Water Bracelets to upgrade your war mages.
For the rest of them:
>Warrior Smiths
W randoms forge Frost Brands and Water Bracelets. Cast Frozen Heart in combat.
F Randoms forge Lightless Lanterns, Fire Brands, and Shields of Gleaming Gold. Cast Magma Bolts in combat.
A Randoms forge Bows of War. Cast Rain of Stones in combat.
>Shamans
F Random: As F Smiths above, minus the forging of course.
D Random: Forge Black Bow of Botulf, Research
N Random: Cast Eagle Eyes and fire magic bows.
>Antlered Shamans
Should be obvious.
Hope that helps.
>>135603989
They're guaranteed E2 and N2, at way cheaper than you'd have to spend on smiths/shamans to get either path.
>>135604172
>Use enough to cast all the N goodies on your troops.
I just get as many as I can and use them for earth magic if there's too many for just N buffs. E2 is always useful, even if they're a bit expensive.
>>135604803
>Bows of War
>Black Bow of Botulf
Are those actually worth the cost? Asking because I don't know.
Let's start already!Link the map.
>>135603989
>>135604803
I guess it's not obvious. Thistle Mace or N gem lets them cast Strength of Gaia, into Relief, Mass Regen, Gaia's Blessing, Mass Protection, etc. They're also guaranteed access to E2 with Stealth, for all of its normal uses.
Earth really is the core of the nation, which works out fine because Earth is a ridiculously versatile magic path. If you're really not sure what to cast, spamming Strength of Giants is a very strong force multiplier and it only takes 2-3 mages to blanket your army with +4 strength.
>>135604976
Bow of War, definitely. You get to forge them for 4A gems before a hammer, and you have access to Flaming Arrows and Wind Guide, as well as sacred, stealthy N mages to wield them.
Black Bow is a more niche piece. It's something you forge when you have specific game in mind. Usually I forge it to feeblemind anything that I can target with a command like "Fire Large Monsters." This includes most pretenders and a pretty large host of thugs.
>>135595681
I assumed (hoped) that the "wittymemename" was a bit of dry sarcasm. As in, "Yeah, yeah here's your meme bullshit, let's play some Domino's."
>>135604976
They're worth the cost with a hammer and a forge bonus smith. Not really otherwise. Botulf is anti thug use only. Bow of War replaces 13 archers, more with the prec boost, good with flaming arrows/wind guide + eagle eyes. Forging shit that isn't boosters is often a dubious prospect, as it takes up hammer-turns that are quite valuable.
>>135605031
Let's not forget to update the mod.
>>135605339
Your hopes and dreams are nothing before the assholes who join every single game with the name 'meme' in the title with a joke build and the intention to go AI as soon as possible. Because 'it's funny guise'.
>>135605432
Hammer turns are valuable for low income gems, otherwise it really doesn't matter what you hammer away. Using hammers every turn is pretty important, as it's the only way they are going to pay themselves back.
>>135604976
Botulf is a waste against ordinary troops, but it can be very bad for enemy SCs. At minimum it will likely force the enemy to screen any SC with additional troops, and it will also likely prevent him from using a SC more than once.
It also has uses when the enemy mages have a different statline to enemy troops (e.g. mounted mages in an army with no cavalry) as you can target them specifically.
I don't like bow of war, I'd rather spend gems elsewhere (like quills, or other air magic). It's the equivalent of 13 composite archers for a few gems and a commander to hold it, and I'd usually rather just buy archers with gold.
>>135605335
>you have access to Flaming Arrows and Wind Guide, as well as sacred, stealthy N mages to wield them.
What's the point of using them on a mage rather than a scout if you're going to put up Wind Guide anyway?
>>135605543
Well llama is implementing the stealth ban of those who stale too much/go AI whilst some graph bullshit, so it works out in the end.
>>135605543
Is there any reason why such an asshole would do the same in any other game?
>>135605686
Source on that?
What's a stealth ban and how does it work?
>>135605432
I usually don't bother with the hammers to forge Bows of War unless I'm not using them for something else. I find my Air throughput to be pretty low as EA Ulm, given that I can search it very regularly but don't have a lot to do with it that isn't forging A boosters. Air boosters are expensive as fuck, but I can usually spare 4A every other turn to equip some commanders with bows.
>>135605612
You have limited hammers, and forging a new hammer because you're spending 1 hammer making bows of botulf or bows of war is 12 earth gems and a turn of a 3-earth mage down the gurgler because you wanted to spend 2 gems a pop on magic bows. Obviously every hammer sees use every turn. But forging a new hammer is still a cost.
>>135605674
Eagle Eyes stacks with wind guide. Different bonuses iirc.
>>135605786
meme'd
Since we're talking about EA Ulm, I noticed something I think worth pointing out in summod.
Now that RoS costs 2 gems, it's significantly harder for Ulm to lay turn 1 RoS traps, as the A1E1 random wouldn't be able to anymore.
From what you people are saying, this is a tool that seems pretty core to a national strategy, along with making difficult to use the simplest counter (i.e. thugs and SCs).
That seems a serious nerf.
>>135605717
'Because it's a meme game and so it's allowed'. Shitters are more likely to be shitters in situations where they feel they can rationalize or justify it with some excuse.
>>135605674
Because what the fuck else am I going to do with my E1N1 Shamans? And Wind Guide can't be assumed considering that A2 access means a 20+ gem A booster or a 1/32 Warrior Smith.
But, you're right, they usually find the way into the hands of my Warrior Chiefs and Scouts when I can put up Wind Guide.
>>135605986
As usual with summod changes, nothing actually changes. EA Ulm has no problem forging boots. Just makes RoS slightly more expensive, and non-turn-1 RoS with a mage who doesn't trigger gem usage is still turn 2 ros with a mage who doesn't trigger gem usage.
>>135605879
Quills. Your early research boosters are generally more important. After your research is lanterning away into the distance, you should be forging air boosters to supplement your crystal shields, from your god, as your income likely won't allow a shield/turn.
>>135606257
Actual change is actually huge because you cant cast RoS with a E2A1 mage and two gems anymore which means E1A1 base needs both boots and summon earthpower thus cant cast it turn1. Turn2 RoS isnt any good. E2A1 mages are very very rare for Ea Ulm
>>135606386
>lanterning away into the distance
Good one.
>>135605879
>but I can usually spare 4A every other turn to equip some commanders with bows.
Why not forge some quills instead? Eyes of aiming for your mages with good evocations? Save up gems to mass forge flying boots when you get an A2?
>>135605920
>Eagle Eyes stacks with wind guide. Different bonuses iirc.
Same bonus in the inspector, same increase in precision in the manual. Pretty sure they're the same bonus.
I vaguely remember testing it too, but that was ages ago.
>>135606173
>Because what the fuck else am I going to do with my E1N1 Shamans?
Leave them at home researching.
>And Wind Guide can't be assumed considering that A2 access means a 20+ gem A booster or a 1/32 Warrior Smith.
Fair enough. I assumed all of this stuff was in one battle/army.
>>135606416
What he >>135606257 says is that A1E1 Warrior Smith is too weak for an enemy army to consider him worth spending gems on. So they won't put up Fog Warriors/Army of Foo/Mass Prot or anything else that would help them not to die to RoS.
>>135606257
>>135606550
Are you sure they never trigger gem usage?
Because if you're right, what you say is a valid point, even though it's still a nerf (as you can cast turn 1 protection spells requiring no gems).
If you're not, >>135606439 is right. You'd need a Blood Stone on top of the boots.
>>135606386
Speaking of the God, would it be worth it to get blood stones off it?
>>135606416
Seems fine to me. Turn 2 Rain of Stones is still devastating if utilized correctly. Turn 1 RoS should require substantial investment. The fact that any old E2A1 dork can utterly decimate an army is kinda stupid.
>>135606416
>turn 2 ros is shit
Turn 2 ros is fine because scripting lots of turn 1 no-gem mage buffs helps cripple mage effectiveness. If you've done that, you will likely win an armyfight.
Secondly, it's not even that bad. A fair number of smiths will get 2e1a, so with boots are first-turn RoS anyway. It's logistically slightly more difficult but still mostly just as effective.
>>135606628
>Blood Stones
Having rare, low key B access for EA Ulm to allow just that would make sort of sense.
Not only it'd be an inkling of what will happen in LA, but it would be even in theme with the Conan vibe.
>>135606550
So you are sending in a lone mage? This is why you script flyers to attack rear.
>>135606628
Two gems that Warrior Smith holds would trigger gem usage, according to this: http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/factors-that-trigger-ai-gem-spending-tests
Temporary ones from Blood Stone would be ignored, though.
>>135606840
Sure, but not everyone has fliers in every army. And even if he does, scripting them to attack rear on turn 1 in every battle is an easy way to lose them very quickly, unless they're some bullshit units like Zhayedans.
>>135606628
>Are you sure they never trigger gem usage?
Yes.
>>135606840
This is why you troop decoys/PD.
>>135607276
Paths AND gems. Need both.
>>135607276
But if you have the defensive turn, you don't care.
Also, 2-gem RoS makes much harder for E1 w/boots Smiths to survive. If they cast it (turn 2), they'll be at 200 fatigue, and it will be a long time before they retreat.
With 1-gem RoS, they'd be at 100 fatigue and they'll scram very soon.
>>135607725
>Paths AND gems. Need both.
I can't read, apparently. You're right.
>>135607813
Correct. So, your mage-blob is dead, but you killed a 105 gold mage and got some free shoes. Noice.
>>135608012
Well, I actually didn't know if what I said was a good thing or not.
>>135608012
If the enemy sends in a small, hardened strike force rather than the mageblob you expected, your mage now gets screwed.
100 fatigue means he probably has time to retreat if your enemy doesn't bring flyers, 200 fatigue means he's fucked.
>>135608357
Yes, in that case he gets screwed. But a specialized, hardened, anti-RoS force could kill him even if he cast RoS on turn 1.
>>135608491
Even a specialized anti-RoS force is likely to get messed up by moderate PD and/or screening troops for at least a couple turns, time enough for a 100-fatigue mage to escape.
Now you don't even need a (probably expensive) anti-RoS force, just some armored troops with an armored leader.
>>135608642
Fair enough.
Hi, i'm a 3B3E3S1N mage with N gems and 25 blood slaves, you know what i'm going to do to a mind slime horror, i'm going to WALK THE RIGHT UP AND TRY TO PUNCH IT WITH MY FIST AFTER CASTING PROTECTION.
I guess gem usage didn't get triggered in that assassination battle because she had too many bodyguards and blood slaves.
I uh.
I just.
How do I put this.
FUCK EVERYTHING.
>wittymeme finally has a 10th player
>>135610021
Well, that's more sensible than the Yogi who cast blink to be next to Ettimu and tried to punch him.
>>135610250
Is it more sensible? That yogi survived, as I recall. Maybe he knows something we don't.
>>135608824
So this is actually a not-inconsiderable nerf, on a nation that, from what I gathered is not exactly the best.
>>135610021
Just assume that your mages will die to any assassination. Going by what they cast, the mages themselves clearly aren't worried if they live or not, so I don't see why you should either.
>>135610374
The Yogi survived due to having an army of not stupid Yogi's behind him.
>>135610485
At least EA Ulm can still cast RoS in summod.
Most nations lose the ability to do so if you make it E3A1.
>>135610021
I've had a D3 mage walk up to a ghost, run away from fear and die after a turn, and have his skeletons (which he summoned earlier) finish off the ghost before they dissolved. If he'd just stayed back and kept casting spells everything would have been fine.
Assassinations are absolutely infuriating, it feels like it's completely RNG whether your mage lives or dies.
We now have TC as 10th player. Just start.
>>135611145
And link map.
>>135610507
AN is up. I have very limited mages who are not s1 monkeys. They do fine if they use gems. This one had full gear and a water bottle. I did not realize that the blood slaves would cause it to not trigger gem usage. Everything sucks. I empowered a nagarishi to b3 and now it is dead. Fuck this.
>>135611385
*AC
>>135611385I'm sorry for your loss snakes, here's a cute snake for you.
I'm done with communion nations after this. My thoughts were that he might have an army move into the province I was attacking so I better script my mages to deal with the worst case scenario. My mages thoughts were to burn out all 4 communion slaves on PD despite 2 occultists spamming reinvigoration. Fuck this so much. I'm just playing quadbless mictlan from now on.
>>135612064
What exactly was cast to burn out your slaves that quick, and what parts of it were unscripted?
>>135612351
Nah I just noticed the territory I attacked has drain 3 dominion, so that probably had a lot to do with it. Also the fight extended into turn 7, and it was a 2 full rounds of 5 astrapelagists, 2 occultists and an alchemist casting unscripted shit that killed my slaves.
>>135612841
communion master, spells you want to cast x3, communion slave
problem solved
>>135612841
cheap bow/crossbow
communion master, spells you want to cast x4, Fire (none)
problem solved
the ghetto version is stay behind troops but I feel like they still cast spells then sometimes
>>135612841
Wait, wait. You have an eight-masters-and-four-slaves communion and you don't script some of the masters to slave at the end of whatever casting is vital? That's a really screwy ratio, reinvig or no.
>>135613135
It's extra screwy because all the masters have different paths
ergo the slaves could not possibly share their paths
ergo mucho fatiguo
>>135577549
Those words aren't really rare. At least, not more so than the situations they describe.
>>135602856
>implying those things aren't moderately cute
>>135612064
Probably not the best way to start biting the tail of the snake.
By the way, why aren't you just going through Yldmyre (370) instead of through me? I can assure you all that waits for you in C'tis is your own ruin.
>>135578553
>doing something stupid for no reason overshadows things that, though untested with regard to practical effect, are clearly well intentioned
You should not be surprised by this.
>>135612927
That means your communion is performing way under what it could if you actually fight an opponent.
>>135615195
Clearly not, when the alternative in this case results in all slaves dying three turns later, after casting allegedly stupid spells.
>>135612841
Hearts of Life are really good for communion slaves, as their encumberence doesn't matter so it's just 10 reinvigoration a turn.
>>135613047
>the ghetto version is stay behind troops but I feel like they still cast spells then sometimes
They do.
>>135615637
All slaves dying is usually worth the damage it does in a big battle. The problem is that the spellcasting AI can't detect a big battle reliably, so you have to script for two different battles (PD and enemy army) at once.
Having to halve your spell output because your mages are braindead morons who can't moderate their spell use is both frustrating and nonsensical, and I completely understand why it's causing him to dislike using communions.
>>135610021
Personally, I always enjoy it when my assassin stands there doing fuck all while an enemy scout walks up and stabs him to death.
>>135616915
See, that shouldn't happen, because unlike the dudes being assassinated (who do not follow a given script whatsoever) the assassin will do precisely what you scripted him for. If he's set to hold, he'll hold. If he's set to retreat, he'll throw himself out the window. If the victim is acting retarded, it's the AI's fault and part of what makes assassination good. If the assassin is acting retarded, you done fucked up.
>>135616824
It would be a huge departure from the earlier games in the series but I would really like to see a more programmatic approach to scripting. You know those flash games where you had to build and program a little factory, or a robot? Something like that. The main downside is that would massively increase the ceiling on how much time you could spend scripting which might in turn necessitate some level of simplifying elsewhere in order to keep the game playable. Either that or a very robust library of simple functions that would give you most of the functionality of spending a few hours of scripting in a shorter span of time.
Or actually, maybe have leadership affect the length and complexity of the scripting you can do. That could help limit the depth.
Civilization made some large changes to very fundamental aspects of the series for the 5th entry and they were really fantastic ideas.
>>135617437
I'd like that too, because I'm a giganerd, but it would make the game fantastically more difficult.
>>135617101
Oh, shit really? Haha I think I know what happened then, fuck. I probably had him in a province with a lot of my mundane generals heading into battle and what I do in that situation is copy Hold x5 Stay Behind Troops into any blank orders slot.
Damn, well, I hadn't used assassins before this game and now I feel foolish.
>>135617579
If it's something simple, it could arguably end up easier, as you wouldn't have to work around the shitty AI.
>>135617437
>The main downside is that would massively increase the ceiling on how much time you could spend scripting which might in turn necessitate some level of simplifying elsewhere in order to keep the game playable.
Would it really, though?
Once you're past turn 5, you want most mages to just spam a single spell for the rest of the fight. 'Repeat this spell' should be easy enough to program in. You could even do 'repeat this script' where you have up to 5 turns of scripting for the mage to repeat over the fight.
Both of those would fit almost all situations, and if you really want to go full autism and script out a carefully-balanced 40 turn communion script, it's not going to give you much of a benefit (and if one of your mages gets sniped it'll all collapse anyway).
>>135617579
If that were the only change added, then yes it could end up fantastically difficult. But it doesn't have to be as deep as I implied there, or the complexity could come at the expense of other aspects of the game (though I'm not sure what parts and I wouldn't really be a fan of this idea anyways).
>>135617762
Exactly, the skill cap for scripting is deceptively high. There's a lot of unintuitive little tricks people have learned to already approach what I was suggesting.
>>135617762
>>135617437
>>135618047
Even just adding more turns of available scripting, and allowing you to tell your armies where to move would be nice.
>>135618240
Agree.
>>135618240
True, but we're always going to want more turns and more granularity so why not just swap it out for a better system that allows all of that?
But for a realistic suggestion, I would settle for being able to repeat a spell and to forbid certain spells from being cast by the AI.
>>135618525
And blink was never ever cast again, the end.
>>135617437
>tfw dominons 5 has programmable AI
Most players would just copy scripts from online and just change the spells.
Ultimately, it's not a big deal because I make more than that number of Astrapelagists each turn. It's just annoying. I'm still new to this game, and this is the first PBEM I've been in. Thanks for the tips on turning masters into slaves though, that could help.
From my understanding, (having read the wiki and done a little experimenting in SP) all slaves receive a certain amount of fatigue that depends on their own path level and the master's path level relative to the spell being cast. So an alchemist with astrapelagist slaves will obviously incur a far greater amount of fatigue on the slaves, due to the slaves not having E or F paths. BUT fatigue generated by a master isn't divided equally among slaves it is instead given individually to each and every slave. So I wonder if this (>>135612927) method wouldn't just burn out MORE slaves.
Unless the wiki is wrong and fatigue is divided between slaves, not calculated per individual slave.
No matter what, occultists stop casting reinvig after turn 5, because if they have 0 fatigue they will never reinvig. So if I start with 4 slaves, turn 4 masters into slaves on turn 5, I feel like I'm at greater risk of burning out 8 slaves rather than 4. Either way it's fucky and wasn't happening to me when I was fighting Atlantis before he turned AI.
>>135618525
>I would settle for being able to repeat a spell and to forbid certain spells from being cast by the AI.
I would cast Wish irl for this.
Who the fuck wants to do coding for fun
Wait
All of you guys!
Also scripting taking a million billion hours isn't a downside for some people. They already test for hours and do diplomacy for hours and wish they could win more games by sheer dint of time spent.
>>135619581
A communion slave will not cast spells even if it is also a communion master. That's why it stops slaves burning out. Because the masters stop fucking casting spells.
Fatigue is calculated individually, but then divved by number of slaves.
>>135619606
Nice impression of that salty 'fuck off' guy
>>135620019
check out this landwalker who wants to spend hours writing code to script his mages
>>135619798
What if the communion master has innate spellcaster?
>>135619450
I mean, that's half of real programming anyways.
>>135620196
>External screaming.
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=EAGAME
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=NEWLAGAME
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=wittymemename
>>135620189
>implying Dominions isn't won exclusively by the superior Pelagians
I bet you even shed your tail, merscum
>>135619798
>Fatigue is calculated individually, but then divved by number of slaves.
Wait fucking what?
Goddamn I need to go back to testing shit in SP again. I'm just in a bad mood. I've been playing this game for months and I still don't understand shit about dick. It's 3am, I just got bad turn news and we're only ~250 posts into the thread so my retarded posts are going to sit here for the next couple of days. I need to go flagellate myself for a bit then go to bed.
>>135620196
>>135620357
I was going to say don't make this more complicated than it already is.
