Dueling Network General #2219 - SUPER TWIRL Edition
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P{ass: vidya
First for Gravekeepers
F R O G S
Third for unban everything.
I want to play a deck that either searches a ton or draws a ton of cards. I'll be playing D Heros when they come out in TCG land, but what do I play until then?
>>146870928
I for one welcome our frog overlords.
Structure deck R when?
>>146870995
Evil Hero Dark Gaia
>>146871013
After dark world structure deck R
anyone here think that super rejuvenation will be unbanned close to the new dragon SD?
>>146871013
ScreamsExternally.jpg
>>146870995
Monarchs searches like there's no tomorrow.
>>146870967
>i overextend and hate to get punished for it
i bet you want kaijus banned too
>>146871013
pls no
>tfw both the /dng/ thread and the /a/rc-v thread are by me
I have succeeded in life.
>>146871125
If they didn't unban Stratos for the HERO SD, what makes you think they'll unban super reju?
>>146870995
RaidRaptors.
>>146871276
Kaijus trade one card for one card. Exciton punishes you for winning and can be made at any time in a half-decent deck. It's a braindead get out of jail free card.
>pendulum summoning was encouraging Extra deck degeneracy beyond what was manageable
>Make the Monarch SD to counter this
>Need to sell Dark Side of Dimensions to tournament players but don't want to make movie cards too strong
>Make the Felgrand SD to help Blue-eyes
>Give Gemini support
>don't make a Gemini SD but make an Ancient Gear SD
For what purpose?
>>146871992
they are doing SD:R in order dingus
>>146871889
volcanic queen trades one card for one card. black rose punishes you for winning and can be made at any time in a half-decent deck. It's a braindead get out of jail free card.
i'm retarded I was hosting in EU this entire time. not sure how that happened. Anyway hosting again.>>146870904
>>146872137
>machine-revolt came out before emperor of darkness
>>146872186
MST trades one card for one card. Raigeki punishes you for winning and can be made at any time in a half-decent deck. It's a braindead get out of jail free card.
>>146872186
Volcanic Queen is worse than Kaijus because you can't normal summon the turn you use it, but either way neither are broken and both are perfectly fair, and are a horrible comparison to Exciton Knight.
Black rose suicides and is spell speed 1. It can also only use its effect once, and requires you to run tuners that have asymmetrical levels to your non tuners. Are you deliberately being retarded or do you really not see the issue with Exciton?
Exciton wasnt even that good when it came out and was overhyped to shit. Why are you crying over it now?
The only reason Konami banned it was because it would hurt Pendulums and let r4nk get over big untargetable beaters and floatshit easily.
>>146872915
Yes, MST is also another example of a card that is perfectly balanced, unlike Exciton.
Raigeki is limited to one, is unsearchable and so has to be drawn from the deck, only destroys monsters, can only be used once, and doesn't become a monster with decent attack after activation.
>>146872842
It's in order BACKWARDS you stupid mong
>>146872991
the only differences between volcanic queen and black rose, and kaijus and exciton, are time and powercreep.
>change of heart trades one card for one card. CED punishes you for winning and can be made at any time in a half-decent deck. It's a braindead get out of jail free card.
>bottomless trap hole trades one card for one card. judgment dragon punishes you for winning and can be made at any time in a half-decent (lightsworn) deck. it's a braindead get out of jail free card.
>>146873210
>Exciton wasnt even that good when it came out
Yeah, it's not like everyone was using it and it was expensive as shit because you'd have to be retarded not to run at least one.
>>146873637
Everyone ran it because it was situationally great, but even then that situation was rare and it meant you were in a losing position already and could not win the game that turn. And even if you summoned it, exciton would rarely if ever get his effect off because everyone expected it and ran a fuckton of effect negation. I played through HAT to CORE format and I can count the amount of times I actually needed and resolved exciton on my fingers. It was an extremely overhyped rank4 compared to actual, you-can't-live-without-it staples like castel or dweller.
The only thing broken about exciton was when nekroz could discard brio to get its effect off without being down on cards, which was stupid.
>>146873504
And all of the other things I listed. And again, I never once implied I thought there was anything wrong with Kaijus, dipshit.
How the fuck did you see me post "trades one card for one card" and interpret that as "this card is broken"?
>CED
Is fucking banned.
>bottomless trap hole trades one card for one card
This is wrong, but also that card is limited. You are horrible at this.
>judgment dragon punishes you for winning and can be made at any time
No it cannot be made at any time, it has to be grinded toward.
>in a half-decent (lightsworn) deck.
Kill yourself my man.
Why IS this so expensive? Is it just because it's secret? I don't get it.
>>146874189
>because it was situationally great
In any situation where you are losing in terms of field presence.
>and could not win the game that turn
So a card is only good if it can win you the game that turn? Fucking retard.
>because everyone expected it and ran a fuckton of effect negation
So clearly it wasn't worth the hype, right? In fact no monster effects are worth using because they can just get negated, everyone should just use normal beat.
>>146874708
DMG the Dragon Knight?
>>146874708
>>146874863
>Forgot image
ayy
>>146871013
Eternal D R A G O N S meta that Konami won't risk hitting because Kaz loves Blue-Eyes
>>146874717
If your opponent set up a full monster field and couldnt stop exciton, he was a retard.
If your opponent set up full backrow and couldnt stop exciton, he was a retard.
Even if you excitoned the best decks they would just float and laugh at you then push your shit in next turn because you just spent your last few resources on a rank 4 that will leave you wide open for Shaddoll Fusion and the like.
Not to mention it meant you lost everything on your field as well, and most decks until nekroz used heavy backrow or set up big boards extensively so you were bound to lose stuff too. If you had no board, you were pretty much OTK'd and shit on before you could even respond with Exciton.
Exciton only existed to give rank4 decks outs to rare situations and was used way WAY less than Castel which was useful almost all the time. You could get away with never owning an exciton that format and do well.
The only reason he's banned is because he dumpsters pendulums extremely well and Konami would never be able to sell them if it meant a rogue rank4 would destroy your entire deck concept.
>>146874198
are you fucking retarded?
>you list card that isnt broken, but punishes player for playing a card, followed by another card with a slightly harder to pull off condition, that punishes harder
>i list a card that isnt broken, but punishes player for playing a card, followed by another card with a slightly harder to pull off condition, that punishes harder
>person who i assume is you lists 2 cards that arent really related to eachother or the conversation
>i say the only difference between the 2 cards i listed is time and powercreep, then list 2 more examples of cards that were around at the same time, with similar objectives.
>point flies right above your head and you misinterpret (and by that i mean dont read) everything i said, then proceed to criticize the cards i chose for no reason.
please learn to read and follow conversations, here, let me summarize my point;
a card that is easier to pull off, and punishes less, is only better than a card that is harder to pull off and punishes harder, in the context of how hard the person the card is used against, overextends.
and the only difference between certain examples of this, is time and powercreep.
volcanic queen is similar to a kaiju, as it tributes an opponents monster, but was POWERCREEPED, as kaijus have no restrictions other than only being able to control 1 face-up one.
black rose is similar to exciton because it mass destroys the field, but its POWERCREEPED because it isnt a quick effect, and it destroys itself.
change of heat is a simple way of clearing one card off your opponents board, but over TIME, cards with very simple effects and no restrictions became overpowered and had to be toned down, or banned.
CED is a mass destroyer who dominated during a TIME with no easy effect negation, during a TIME where priority existed and during a TIME where having all your cards hit the grave was a bad thing.
>>146871992
there is already 1 gemini ancient gear
expect more ;^)
>>146875813
bottomless was good during a TIME where a decent banish was hard to come back from, but was POWERCREEPED by cards that cannot be destroyed, cards that get powerful effects when summoned and cards that straight up negate the summon happening in the first place.
judgment dragon was a pretty easy to summon mass destroyer who was around during a TIME of priority and when boss monsters werent easy to get over, then it was POWERCREEPED by floating, effect negation, summoning negation, and easier to summon boss monsters.
>>146875435
Dont forget most decks after DUEA could rarely make exciton.
Shaddolls rarely if ever made rank4's.
Qlis locked themselves out unless they ran storm or other shit.
Ritual Beasts couldn't rank 4 well.
BA couldn't.
Tellars were the only rank4 deck but they were slow and set their whole hand to board, they couldn't do it either.
Only until Nekroz came did Exciton become a huge issue.
Rank4 in general was weak for a long time, including exciton.
>>146875212
How good were Chaos Dragons in their prime?
I missed that format
>>146874934
>Secret rare from a recent set with no reprints before the new holo system
Gee I wonder why
>>146871412
congrats
>>146876835
But fucking nothing is using it outside of pet shit. Even as an old secret it shouldn't cost THIS much.
>>146875435
>If your opponent set up a full monster field and couldnt stop exciton, he was a retard.
>If your opponent set up full backrow and couldnt stop exciton, he was a retard.
Or didn't draw into Fiendish Chain/Breakthrough skill.
>then push your shit in next turn
It's a quick effect you retard.
>>146875813
>slightly harder to pull off condition, that punishes harder
That punishes significantly harder, twice.
>i list a card that isnt broken, but punishes player for playing a card, followed by another card with a slightly harder to pull off condition, that punishes harder
Black Rose is quite a bit harder to pull off and has a proportionately stronger effect because of it. It also leaves your field ACTUALLY open, as opposed to Exciton which leaves you with a monster that will force them to use removal before attacking or passing.
>>person who i assume is you lists 2 cards that arent really related to eachother or the conversation
Fuck are you talking about?
>i say the only difference between the 2 cards i listed is time and powercreep
Which again, is a dumb thing to say considering I never implied Kaiju were in any way unbalanced.
>then list 2 more examples of cards that were around at the same time, with similar objectives.
Which is totally irrelevant to the thing just mentioned and does not support your argument in any way.
>point flies right above your head and you misinterpret (and by that i mean dont read) everything i said
If you weren't trying to say you thought that I implied that Kaijus were unbalanced, then your bringing up other examples of cards that were similar to Kaijus in function and were also not unbalanced is completely pointless. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you were at least attempting to make a point, however misguided it might have been.
Continued because gosh you're dumb.
>>146876924
http://yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Odd-Eyes+Fusion
10 topping Odd-Eyes/Performapal decklists ran it this month alone. 2 of those won their respective events.
Please look up the usage of a card before spouting nonsense.
>>146877156
Those cards were necessary that format even without exciton. Monster effects dominated PRIO to CORE.
>It's a quick effect you retard.
So what?
Shaddoll Fusion into Winda, thanks for the plus
Summon Unicore, fuck you
All the BA's float more, or just farfa it
Qlis hate Exciton but if they had a serious field built up and couldnt floodgate you out of the game they lost anyways, exciton or no.
Ritual Beasts and Tellars are the only decks it seriously hurt and they were all at the bottom of the totem pole at that point anyways.
And no deck could reliably make Exciton for it to be a serious threat beyond Tellars and rogue Qli builds, except for Nekroz. But that was more of an issue with Nekroz being oppressively broken.
>>146877606
Shit, nice to see something actually using it now then. Previously it was just used in garbage Magician decks. I apologize for the retardation.
is enough ban pantheism to kill monarchs or Erebus need to go too?
>>146875813
>a card that is easier to pull off, and punishes less, is only better than a card that is harder to pull off and punishes harder
This may have been a point you intended to make in your head, but none of your idiotic greentexts implied this in the slightest. This is also not correct in this situation, because exciton is disproportionately rewarding for the difficulty of execution.
>and the only difference between certain examples of this, is time and powercreep
Exciton is an example of too much power creeping on at once.
>volcanic queen is similar to a kaiju, as it tributes an opponents monster, but was POWERCREEPED
Okay, but that is completely irrelevant to Exciton Knight. Kaijus are better than Volcanic Queen and were made later, yes that's true. And?
>but its POWERCREEPED because it isnt a quick effect, and it destroys itself.
Yes, Exciton is better than Blackrose and came later. But it isn't just better, it is way, way too much better. Exciton is twice as fast, twice as powerful, only has half the cost, and is easier to summon to boot.
>change of heat is a simple way of clearing one card off your opponents board, but over TIME, cards with very simple effects and no restrictions became overpowered and had to be toned down, or banned.
Which is completely irrelevant to Exciton Knight.
>CED is a mass destroyer who dominated during a TIME with no easy effect negation, during a TIME where priority existed and during a TIME where having all your cards hit the grave was a bad thing.
And CED is banned. Are you now trying to argue for unbanning Exciton and CED?
This does not support your initial argument at all.
>>146876184
>Bottomless was good during a TIME
Bottomless is still good dingdong. You know it's limited right?
>judgment dragon was a pretty easy to summon mass destroyer
IF YOU RAN PURE LIGHTSWORNS
>>146877923
Pantheism can stay since they need that draw power or they lose to themselves
Stormforth and Domain are what need to go, it's what gives them power over the opponent.
>>146877674
And were unsearchable, meaning you had to draw into them for them to save you from Exciton.
>So what?
Literally read the rest of the post.
>>146877156
where, in every post ive made, have i said that kaijius are unbalanced or said you think kaijus are unbalanced?
stop bringing up the fucking kaijus, thats not the basis of the arguement you retard.
>That punishes significantly harder, twice.
have you read excitons restrictions?
what moron would see exciton on the field, have more hand/field advantage, and then willingly either leave exciton on the field until the opponents turn or go into the battle phase?
>Black Rose is quite a bit harder to pull off and has a proportionately stronger effect because of it. It also leaves your field ACTUALLY open, as opposed to Exciton which leaves you with a monster that will force them to use removal before attacking or passing.
you're not going to be making exciton very easily in blue-eyes or BA, and you wouldnt want to make it in pals or kozmo, as nuking your own scales, most of the time isnt a good thing, and not being able to do damage is bad for kozmos.
before you interpret that as me saying "black rose is easier to make", black rose is harder to deal with, and could possibly leave you with more plays, considering how easy it is to special summon in synchro decks.
>Fuck are you talking about?
some guy mentioned MST and raigeki, but it wasnt part of this reply chain.
>Which is totally irrelevant to the thing just mentioned and does not support your argument in any way.
its only "totally irrelevant" if you dont read what i said and look at my reasoning for saying it in the first place.
>a card that is easier to pull off, and punishes less, is only better than a card that is harder to pull off and punishes harder, in the context of how hard the person the card is used against, overextends.
please quote the whole comment before trying to debate it.
continued.
>>146877923
if anything needs to get hit in monarchs, it's Ehther, because it's the main play enabler
>>146878547
Pantheism is a bigger problem than Domain. Powerful plays that are inconsistent are not a huge problem in comparison.
The biggest problem with Pantheism is that it can search itself, so in that regard putting it to one would be fine with me.
>>146877923
Stormforth and Domain. Hit those and they become a budget pet deck without murdering them.
>>146878585
>And were unsearchable, meaning you had to draw into them for them to save you from Exciton.
Being unsearchable meant people just ran them in 3's because you needed them for more than one in a blue moon shit like Exciton.
Not to mention everyone also ran
>Solemn
>bottomless to kill the materials
>vanitys at 3
in most decks, not to mention qlis ran skill drain at 3
Exciton didn't just show up all the time and fuck your entire board up. And again, making exciton was way harder that meta than drawing effect negation.
>>146878547
>>146878668
but erebus send pantheism and first monarchs to the grave, ether too but he is just the searcher for Erebus. Erebus is the guy who doesnt target, can rip one card of your hand and can get back from the graveyard, discarding one card.
>>146879106
how in tzolkin-monarchs decks right?
What happened to the ygopro checkmate server?
Does anyone want to play on ygopro? I just wanted to practice zefra so i can try and make my own deck. I used to like zefra when they first came out but i read online the way i used to play is all wrong so I'm trying to learn how to properly play them.
I'm hosting with note vg and pass vidya on the USA server.
>/dng/ got so retarded again they're seriously comparing unsearchable shit with a rank 4
>>146877156
>Exciton is an example of too much power creeping on at once.
being able to summon up to 5 monsters, irrelevant to one specific archetype, is too much power creeping at once, but pendulums came out and thats fine.
being able to take any 2 monsters and slap them together to bring out a powerful boss monster is too much powercreeping at once, but synchros came out, and thats fine.
>Yes, Exciton is better than Blackrose and came later. But it isn't just better, it is way, way too much better.
restricted condition that might (MIGHT) be able to be used twice VS unrestricted condition used once.
>Kaijus are better than Volcanic Queen and were made later, yes that's true. And?
and exciton is "better" than black rose and was made later. its called a comparison.
>Yes, Exciton is better than Blackrose and came later. But it isn't just better, it is way, way too much better. Exciton is twice as fast, twice as powerful, only has half the cost, and is easier to summon to boot.
i see you've agreed with me. and maybe you'll agree with me that a card with a much harder summoning condition, but a similar effect, is slightly worse than a card with an easier summoning condition, like say, judgment dragon VS black rose.
>Which is completely irrelevant to Exciton Knight.
im comparing "blue is to colour, as apple is to food".
you're comparing "blue is to food, i dont comprehend the rest"
>This does not support your initial argument at all.
except my point was that 2 cards that exist(ed) during the same time, one with a singular destruction/removal and the other with a mass removal, are no better than eachother if the opponent they're used against is not overextending.
>And CED is banned. Are you now trying to argue for unbanning Exciton and CED?
exciton, sure.
CED? im going to have to ask you to look through my posts relating to CED and point out where it says that i think CED should be unbanned. stop projecting.
Anyone else having trouble ordering shit on tcgplayer?
>>146879912
/dng/ got so retarded they're seriously saying that Black Rose is the same as Exciton even though you have to use tuners for Black Rose
>>146880116
/dng/ got so retarded they're seriously saying that exciton is the same as black rose even though you have to use the same levels for exciton
please reply to this saying your 2 monsters to summon monster is better than my 2 monsters to summon monster.
>>146880258
except you know, most archetypes that can put 2 monsters of the most used level are better than whatever can put together 3 + 4
specially considering that most archetypes using tuners are shit
But hey, keep spouting your retardation
>>146878631
>where, in every post ive made, have i said that kaijius are unbalanced or said you think kaijus are unbalanced?
>>146871276
>i bet you want kaijus banned too
Hurr
>what moron would see exciton on the field, have more hand/field advantage, and then willingly either leave exciton on the field until the opponents turn or go into the battle phase?
Someone that didn't have an out in hand or on the field at the time of summoning, then didn't topdeck into an out.
>these particular meta decks can't make it easily, so it's balanced
No.
>black rose is harder to deal with
In no way, shape, or form is Blackrose harder to deal with.
>considering how easy it is to special summon in synchro decks.
Which are generally shit.
>some guy mentioned MST and raigeki, but it wasnt part of this reply chain.
You would have to be retarded to think that was me.
>its only "totally irrelevant" if you dont read what i said and look at my reasoning for saying it in the first place
No it is straight irrelevant. It has no impact on how broken Exciton is or is not.
>please quote the whole comment before trying to debate it.
That changes nothing. Exciton is disproportionately powerful for the ease of execution. That's it. Anything being said that does not support or contradict this claim is irrelevant to this discussion.
>Being unsearchable meant people just ran them in 3's because you needed them for more than one in a blue moon shit like Exciton
It meant that you would plausibly not have it when you need it.
>And again, making exciton was way harder that meta than drawing effect negation.
Yes, in the sense that winning the lottery is easier than posting on 4chan, because you only have to buy a lottery ticket and then get lucky. Decks that can shit out R4s have numerous ways to do so, you can only run 3 of a given effect negation card. Being able to access something at any time is always preferable to having to draw into it.
>>146880258
>actually trying to argue that any 2 monsters of the same Level is harder to get out than 1 TUNER *and* 1 or more non-Tuners
Holy fucking shit did someone drop a Monarch deck on your head as a child
Has /dng/ got so fucking scrubby they need to realize that xyz is a much more powerful mechanic than synchro thanks to the fact that the most powerful archetypes don't use tuners?
Has /dng/ got so fucking bad that they're somehow saying that Black Rose is the same as Exciton even though synchro is a mechanic powercreeped by xyz?
>>146880412
>>146880481
thank (you)
>>146880563
Even if exciton came back RIGHT now, noone would use it anyways. It's already been powercreeped and it's in the same dumpster with Black rose.
Exciton saw less use in his format than Blackrose in synchro era.
It's FACTUALLY, VERITABLY worse.
I thought pre-DUEA helped retards stablish that r4 was supremely strong.
But then you have retards like >>146876265 that are saying "L-LOL, R4 WASN'T THE STRONGEST IN YGO AT A TIME BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THEY'RE NOT THE STRONGEST!!!11!!"
When HAT format and Fire Fists made people so fucking salty they were crying assasination against Number 101, and we had fucking entire threads crying ban against Castel
>>146880857
then you have retards like this that argue that a field wipe easily made wouldn't be used. Are you fucking stupid?
>>146880857
>Even if exciton came back RIGHT now, noone would use it anyways.
>Le "r4 isn't strong right now so that means it was never strong XD" meme
Has /dng/ seriously got this fucking retarded
>>146881016
>easily made
name a meta deck that easily made it before nekroz was able to make rank 4s for free.
Rank 4 is garbo, your eternal ass destruction over exciton doesn't mean it was actually broken.
>>146880563
Huh? Lots of powerful archetypes use tuners. Tuners also almost always summon themselves too or are summoned by other cards in the archetype, so its very easy to get them and usually to search them too. Also you can turn a synchro into another synchro which is good for combos. XYZ's material mechanics, inability to send pendulums to extra deck or get certain send to grave effects is a pretty big bummer. I'd even argue the lack of levels on XYZ is a negative. To me XYZ only seemed more powerful because they have cards with very strong effects. I don't even know if I'd play any deck that didnt use synchros if they unbanned key synchro cards like brio.
yall niggas mad af
>>146875435
Stacking two level 4s to solve everything is stupid regardless of Pends.
Besides the TCG hates pends based on how fast PePe got nuked.
>>146880857
Exciton would be a pretty big deal for the various demise decks, and it would be pretty strong against any pendulum deck too.
>>146881127
what deck would fucking make it? Monarch? PK? Kozmo? Blue-Eyes? Maybe extremely rarely pepe.
Just fuck off Marzepan
Hosting note vg pass vidya ygopro USA.
I won't mind if you play black rose dragon.
>>146881183
stop spouting nonsense http://yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Evilswarm+Exciton+Knight
>>146881193
tell me a current TCG meta deck that uses tuners
>>146881475
Tzolkin monarchs, draco pals, any odd-eyes based deck.
>>146880014
>being able to summon up to 5 monsters, irrelevant to one specific archetype, is too much power creeping at once, but pendulums came out and thats fine.
Listen, you stupid nigger: how the fuck does this relate to Exciton? I could explain to you why pendulums in general are balanced, or why some pendulums aren't balanced, but that is a completely different fucking topic. We are not talking about game balance broadly, we are talking about one God damn card being balanced or unbalanced.
>any 2
You mean one tuner and one non tuner monster with levels totalling up to the level of the monster you want to summon.
>restricted condition that might (MIGHT) be able to be used twice VS unrestricted condition used once.
restricted condition that might (MIGHT) be able to be used twice VS unrestricted condition MIGHT be able to be used once, is half as fast, is harder to get out, and has twice the cost to resolve.
>its called a comparison
A retarded one that has no relevance in discussing whether or not Exciton is broken.
You know what, fuck the rest of your post, I am nowhere near a good enough teacher to be able to make you stop being a mongoloid fucking moron, so take what I've written so far and just kill yourself.
>>146881475
Extra Deck Monarchs use Tuners ;3
>>146881475
Who's talking about current decks? I said powerful archetypes. The TCG banlist has ripped apart all the best tuner users so unless the banlist went away we cant use them.
>>146881475
Wow, everyone ran exciton in a format where everyone splashed rank 4's into everything for the rare 1/1000th chance of making certain ones.
Fucking Qli's ran rank 4's, guess theyre a rank 4 deck now.
>>146881646
>getting this mad over a single (ONE) card
I can see why Excited Bug got banned
>No deck could easily make Exciton XD
Keep in mind that Nekroz were released in February 2015
>>146881614
Tzolkin Monarchs "synchro" is only another XYZ as you're fucking sending 2 monsters of the same level
dracopals only use it to get out ignister and nothing more
>>146881845
I'm mad at the sheer stupidity of the guy trying to say Exciton is the same as Blackrose.
>>146881696
>no true scotsman
the most powerful deck ever only ran a tuner to get out Naturia Beast :3, full xyz
>>146881869
>people ran exciton in HAT format
No shit. Notice how it's usage dwindled after the hype died off until nekroz came and utilized it actually well.
>>146882072
>le I backpedal and accept that decks before Nekroz were able to use Exciton
you fucking said that no deck could make Exciton Knight as good as Nekroz could, stick to your fucking word retard
>>146871013
So with this, saga of blue-eyes and felgrand structure deck, will I be able to make a decent dragon deck?
>>146882024
He's literally Demise, King of Armageddon but better
>>146882241
no, it's a retarded one
I'm being as retarded as you
You come here and try to say "w-well, no powerful deck would ever use Exciton knight" when Nekroz and EmEm, THE TOP OF THE FUCKING BULLSHIT IN YGO both used it
But hey, keep being retarded
>>146882068
That isn't a no true scotsman because in this situation i never claimed there were any "scotsmen" to begin with. I was never talking about tcg decks just powerful archetypes like infernities. Who am i kidding, just infernities. Fuck the rest of them.
>>146882412
I misinterpreted the reply chain, disregard.
>This entire fucking argument
>>146882584
Kill yourself tripfag
>>146882205
Exciton came out and everyone hyped the shit out of it and ran it in HAT format. Then people realized it's pretty shit in HAT because everyone set 5 and couldnt afford to use it unless they've already lost the game.
Then DUEA came out and only Tellars could really use it, and again they had the same problem as HAT and couldn't use it well. Nothing else DUEA format was actually hurt by Exciton but people still ran him for his very niche usage.
Exciton continued to be shit until Nekroz format where they could shit him out for free and clear their own field and plus at the same time which is why he was broken at all
And if Exciton came back this meta, he'd be worthless again because of powercreep
The meta would shift into using any powerful banned card that gets unbanned. Every synchro deck would run Brionac, all decks would run Pot of Greed, and all R4nk deck would run Exciton.
>>146882719
>a field wipe is worthless because I say so
I guess you think Raigeki and Harpie's Feather Duster are also worthless
>>146882719
>Exciton doesn't help when you're winning so it's shit
Literally you.
Tenacity to 1, Pantheism to 2, Stormforth to 1.
Can't grab stormforth at will, still has decent consistency.
>>146882719
you have nothing except your bullshit claims to backup your theory-oh
Exciton was hugely used on Performage decks and before it fucking got banned
But hey, keep denying the meta and how it works. Field wipes are broken.
>>146882905
>fieldwipes were shit in a format where everything floated or was a quickplay backrow
Yeah, no shit.
Raigeki and Feather duster were only good because they were one card boardwipes that let you OTK before your opponents turn came around and he recovered.
>>146883158
>this retard thinks that Raigeki and Harpie's Feather Duster are bad
HOLY SHIT
Some Infernity decks ran multiple Exciton. If Exciton is so shit then explain this Blackrosefag
>>146883158
Exciton can wipe the field twice
>>146883261
>dng on reading
>>146883064
Stormforth and Tenacity are fine, just limit Pantheism.
>>146883310
people back then were shit players, trust me I know everything and Exciton is bad XDxd
>>146883349
YOU LITERALLY SAID THAT RAIGEKI AND FEATHER DUSTER WERE GOOD BEFORE AND YOU SAY THAT FIELD WIPES ARE SHIT NOW
>>146883158
>were only good
>were
>>146881869
So what? One of the two monsters still has to be a tuner, so you're still wrong.
>>146883158
>costless field wipes are bad
>>146883064
ban Erebus and tenacity >:3
>>146883439
Feather duster is still strong as fuck but we don't have that in TCG do that wasn't relevant.
Excitons field wipe was weak
Raigeki was not only easier to use than exciton, but good because it was an OTK based format.
>>146880423
>Hurr
durr
>Someone that didn't have an out in hand or on the field at the time of summoning, then didn't topdeck into an out.
someone who cant get rid of 1 monster without burning their entire hand is a shitter, and who said it needed to be a top deck? why is it impossible to you to not blow your entire hand in 1 play?
>these particular meta decks can't make it easily, so it's balanced
>No.
so what you're saying, is that card of demise, a card isnt used, and wouldnt be used in nekroz, shaddolls, monarchs, PKBA, blue-eyes and pals, is balanced?
before you mention stunshit like qlis, they arent topping every event.
>In no way, shape, or form is Blackrose harder to deal with.
the same things that deal with exciton, deal with black rose, except your opponent having less advantage and them getting destroyed by battle.
>Which are generally shit.
do i have to start capitalizing "time" and "powercreep" again?
>You would have to be retarded to think that was me.
considering how religiously you are defending exciton staying banned, anythings possible.
>No it is straight irrelevant. It has no impact on how broken Exciton is or is not.
how many times to i have to say "its a comparison" before you understand?
>That changes nothing. Exciton is disproportionately powerful for the ease of execution. That's it. Anything being said that does not support or contradict this claim is irrelevant to this discussion.
the context of what the card is being used against doesnt support or contradict the claim?
you can black rose against nothing if you feel like it, but you can only exciton when your opponent has more card advantage than you.
wont comment on the next 2, wasnt me.
>how the fuck does this relate to Exciton?
first, how a mass summon of any monster, was a definite powercreep, similar to the powercreep that xyzs (exciton) had over synchros (black rose)
second, pendulum summon 2 level 4s then make exciton.
How do I make a meta Exciton deck?
>>146883158
>fieldwipes were shit
>>146883497
They're the same level, you retard. It means you can use them for an XYZ instead, which means more options.
>>146883781
Time travel back to Nekroz format.
>>146883310
Because they were the one rank 4 deck that could use exciton well because they can use launcher or reborn and go +10 off of having no cards.
>>146883686
Kill yourself retard.
>>146883158
screencapped for posterity
These are the fags saying that Exciton is bad and that Black Rose is at the same level
>>146883781
Step 1) unban exciton
Step 2) play literally any meta rank 4 deck
>>146883781
Same way you make a meta Raigeki deck or a meta Castel Deck. You make a meta deck and put Exciton in it.
>>146883875
So what if you can use them for and Xzy summon? One of those monsters is a tuner, and you said meta decks don't run them.
>>146884284
>Xzy summon
>>146884053
Pretty sure it's one retard.
>>146884284
tuners are bad because most of the time they don't equal the level of the non-tuner disallowing you the chance to get xyz out of them
Dracoslayer is used because he can also be used to fuse, to sync and to xyz, not like
Ultimaya Monarchs use level 5 tuners because they can use them to xyz with Prime Monarch and Seraphinite
>>146883781
>play a lvl 4 archetype or meta
>add norden
>>146880423
> We are not talking about game balance broadly, we are talking about one God damn card being balanced or unbalanced.
except what makes "one God damn card" balanced or unbalanced? LITERALLY EVERY OTHER CARD
if a game existed where one cards effect allowed you to become king, but no other cards existed, firstly that would be a shitty game, and secondly, it would be balanced because there would be nothing there to unbalance it, introduce 5 more cards, all allowing you to become different types of peasant, and that king card is now unbalanced.
>any 2
what are you even quoting?
>restricted condition that might (MIGHT) be able to be used twice VS unrestricted condition MIGHT be able to be used once, is half as fast, is harder to get out, and has twice the cost to resolve.
restricted condition that might (MIGHT) be able to be used once, not at all or even less likely, twice, VS unrestricted condition that MIGHT be able to be used once, is half as fast due to needing to put out a card with a better effect than it to make money (aka, powercreep), is harder to get out due to needing to put out a card that is easier to summon with a similar effect than it to make money (aka, powercreep) and doesnt leave a 1900 attack monster on the field that doesnt protect itself.
>its called a comparison
>A retarded one that has no relevance in discussing whether or not Exciton is broken.
how many times to i have to say powercreep?
the comparison is related to powercreep, and how exciton powercreeped cards that powercreeped other cards, making it no different than other cards.
>You know what, fuck the rest of your post
>just kill yourself.
gee you sure are mad, where did exciton touch you? was it your stun deck?
Let's ignore the Blackrose fag and talk about what should get hit next list.
Pantheism, Beatrice, Kozmotown, Tincan,
Brilliant Fusion to 1, Y/N?
Hit Demise? Hit Strike?
>>146884686
I never said they were using them to synchro, all I said is that top decks run tuners. They don't magically stop being tuners just because you used them for another purpose.
>this entire I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG chain
I can't even quote anything since it's too much.
Holy shit, you people need pussy more than Kaiba does.
Go outside, read a book, hire a hooker, workout or do something aside from shitpost for hours about children's card games
This is the most autistic shit I've seen in a while and the E-peen rubbing and superiority complexes are everywhere
>>146884053
I got a bit caught up with my words there, what I mean is that field wipes were weaker during that era of time, and Exciton was the weakest boardwipe there was. Not only did you have to be already down on cards, but you had to lose your whole board and pass unable to kill your opponent, praying they didn't blow you out next turn (and every deck back then could). Not only that, but you couldn't get him out if they had any floodgates on the board, which wasn't true for raigeki, and if you're OCG I guess feather duster but I don't play that format. Raigeki removed floodgates, and had no such cost or restriction.
The only decks that could use it well were infernity (because they could come back off of 0 cards so Exciton was always live) and Nekroz. He became more prevelant during CORE thanks to clowns and instant fusion, but he was still rather weak even then.
Exciton was always at the bottom of the staple xyz list because castel and dweller were far more useful in pushing for game in a floatshit meta. If you want to call Exciton broken, you'd have to call them broken too because they saw way more mileage than exciton ever did.
>>146885159
yeah for pantheism and town.
at least limit strike, and i couldnt care if demise got banned or limited.
but bring back exciton and stratos :>
>>146885159
I think >>146865664 should happen next list, then everyone can be happy.
>>146885340
This, maybe there would be more than 5 top decks finally.
>>146885314
I'm fine with Stratos if Dark Law is gone.
>>146885340
That sounds just awful.
>>146885478
More than 5 decks would be hard to keep up with, and harder to side for.
>>146884686
if u wanna do a consistent synchro deck u usually play tuner monsters with the same lvl (in this case 4) to synchro summon more easily ur monsters...
>>146885159
>Pantheism, Beatrice, Kozmotown, Tincan, Brilliant Fusion to 1, Y/N?
Y to all but Brilliant Fusion and Beatrice. Add Dante.
>Hit Demise? Hit Strike?
Y
>>146885793
My reasoning for brilliant is because it would mean people would likely not run it unless they were using the deck it was intended to be used with if it were at 1 or 2, as for Beatrice instead of Dante, I want to nerf Burning Abyss, not kill it completely.
How do I play the Kozmo matchup with Zolkin Monarchs?
Didn't you guys know Card of Demise doesn't work unless you have cards to discard?
>>146886898
set more backrow
>>146886331
Dante to 1 won't kill BA, OCG is proof of that.
What cards do you still want to see printed before Konami stops nostalgia pandering?
>>146887321
>scrubland being proof of anything
>>146887123
How the fuck does that even make sense though? Like are you supposed to admit you're not going to have any cards at the end of your turn so you don't activate it?
>>146885159
Pantheism, Erebus, Dante, Kozmotown, Tincan and Destroyer to 0.
>>146887360
Any other answer is wrong
When will Bakura get his cards released?
>>146887517
>I want dracopals and nothing else to be meta
>>146887614
Knew I forgot something. What even needs to be hit in dracopals though?
>>146887123
He's right, the discard your hand part doesn't work. That stuff like drawing cards which already took place, that doesn't work either
>>146887813
are you legit retarded
>>146887438
Of course. Wasn't there that ruling that said you must declare you intend to play Card of Demise and promise you'll have cards left to discard?
>>146887914
Knowing how retarded TCG rulings are I'd actually believe that
>>146883931
>Because they were the one rank 4 deck that could use exciton well because they can use launcher or reborn and go +10 off of having no cards.
Yes, this was a reason why Infernity ran exciton, but the most important reason was that getting excitions effect off was very important so you would play multiple just incase your first gets stopped by warning, bts, Traptrix traphole Nightmare, ect. Also Excition was a Fiend so you can use it with palabyrinth to banish him and summon Archfiend. Infernity was the best to use it, but there is a reason why it was over $100 at one point and every deck that can summon a rank 4 ran it. The amount of salt SHark and Excition caused back then was hilarious and if you honestly believe that Excition was shit in most decks then you're retarded.
WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE INOV SPOILERS KONAMI????
I WANT MY LEGACY SUPPORT
>>146888109
>>146888190
>konami buffs a random water archtype
>ends up buffing general WATER.dek better instead
everytime
>>146888302
>frogs
>random water archetype
2010 would like to have a word with you
>>146888302
Dinosaurs when?
>>146888109
Probably a week from now.
>tfw next week:
>TCG movie pack spoilers w/ Alternative shitposting
>INOV full set spoilers
>>146888418
2010 was 40 years ago, frogs were as relevant as burgers.
>>146888719
>frogs were as relevant as burgers
>>146888893
since then frogs have been as relevant as burgers I mean
>>146889005
>backpedaling
kys
>>146885159
Everything you mentioned to 1 is fair, specially Strike.
>>146889089
>kys
kill yourself
>>146889089
ebin
>>146889175
>>146889182
>using your phone to samefag
>>146888719
>2010 was 40 years ago
>/dng/ in charge of maths
>>146889253
That doesn't work.
>>146889253
>>146889267
>using your linux dual-boot to samefag
>>146889314
>if I say something that means it's true, r-right?
>>146889356
>not knowing how IP's work
>>146889410
>implying you don't work for the isp
EXCITON, STRATOS, BRIONAC, AND COSTRUCT DID NOTHING WRONG
>>146889524
>being a wagecuck
>>146889604
>we wont see construct, exciton, towers, or stratos for another year at least under tewarts rule
>>146889604
Excition is a mistake. The rest can be freed.
>>146889731
I wish they would fire Tewart.
>>146889604
>STRATOS
nah
>Opponent can't special summon
>Summons Maiden anyway
>I attack into it, they negate and try to summon Blue-Eyes
>Scoop
Every time. It's truly the pros that play Blue-Eyes.
>>146890419
>playing Maiden
There are scrubs everywhere.
>>146889604
construct and tower to one, keep banned the rest
>>146890065
Not like the OCG freed Brio or Construct.
Or allowed Shadow Mist at numbers higher than 1
>>146885492
Dark Law can stay, Shadow Mist and Stratos should both go to 1, and if Dark Law remains an issue, MCII should be hit.
>>146891170
Stratos at 3
Shadow mist at 3
Rota at 3
All mask changes at 3
Fuck you, heroes tier 1
>>146885681
Or you splash Level 1 Tuners in since they're objectively the best.
>>146890419
That's pretty much the reason why I don't play Blue-eyes on Checkmate/US.
The amount of idiots/nostalgia fanboys the deck attracts drags down the morale.
Thankfully, I can play Monarchs confidently since 60% of the people I play against scoop to Domain + Erebus
>>146891287
>ROTA at 3
I am legitimately down with this. I don't care how much it helps BAPK or Monarchs
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Xyz_Treasure when?
>>146891563
>play this deck in a mirror match
>draw 10 cards
If konami didnt murder the top meta decks every year do you think they would still make the same amount of money?
Tags, anyone?
Is Maxx "C" too strong? Every time I use it my opponent usually gets salty and leaves.
>>146893130
Stop playing shitters.
>>146893130
>>146893130
It's "fair" in that anyone can use it and it does have a drawback (a big one) against certain decks that can complete the maxx c challenge, but what some people haven't realized is that it gives way too big of an advantage to the player who draws it, like pot of greed which was allowed at 1 for a while
>>146893469
Or the opponent could just not special summon for the turn and make you go -1.
>>146893705
then it's a cold wave for summons
>>146893705
you're a retard if you use maxx c on the start of the draw phase and not chain it to the activation of an effect that would special summon
>>146893705
You can almost always chain it to something. Even if they do skip their turn with the exception of Qliphorts you can basically OTK or make an semi unbreakable board next turn.
>>146893705
>Or the opponent could just not special summon for the turn and make you go -1.
Are people just throwing Maxx C instead of in chain?
>>146893843
>>146893469
This.
It's almost always an upstart but also a potential dead draw. Schrodinger.
>>146893843
>>146893469
This nigga gets it.
>negating Pantheism then stealing it so they can't use the grave effect
WHY IS TREATOAD SO GOOD
HOW DO I BEAT TREATOAD
>>146894320
attack it with a monster with more than 2200 atk
>>146894320
>>146894395
powercreeped by the gay turtle desu
>>146890419
Only the best
>>146894187
>effect of plaguespreader zombie, summon lvl 4 pendulum monstah, synchro summon horus and steal Dark destroyer.
GG
>>146894821
>synchro summon horus
new zefra support when?
>People on /DNG/ don't use insect decks
Good lucky getting slapped when playing with the big boys
>>146894359
Not with Dupe Toad up together with it and you're not normal summoning anything with over 2200 att either.
>>146895498
>and you're not normal summoning anything with over 2200 att either
>>146895103
for now, the yang zing counter trap
>>146895645
>tfw someone fucked up Digibug kanji for a Chainsaw Insect archetype
Wonder how an archetype of that would even work?
How do I build frogs? Everything I make is an inconsistent mess.
>>146895645
Wow that card works well with Dank Law.
>>146896149
Ultimaya Treatoad Turbo. 3x Red Layer, 3x Quickdraw Synchron with 1-3 Tuning, 3x Des Frog, 3x Inferno Reckless Summon, 2-3 Instant Fusion + Nova-Infinity in Extra.
>>146895645
>yfw chainsaw insect starts going in the side deck
>>146896149
Sea Lancer.dek (which is sadly dated) or Mermails feauring Silent Angler and Aqua Spirit for the Bahamut abuse verison.
>>146896927
Guess I better get a playset of Ultis then
What else should I add?
>>146895645
>this+dark law
What do shitters mean by "creative decks"? Decks they don't instalose to?
>>146898490
pretty much.
>>146898490
decks that don't use cards that defeat their deck
>>146896949
>not playing fish turbo
>>146899049
>monarchfag getting bodied
lovely
>>146899419
I bet you hate Monarchs because they're good
>>146899049
Fascinating. It didn't occur to me that you could use Bahamut Shark to summon a Treatoad.
>>146899049
Post dick.
>>146899645
It's a pretty obvious play, but I like the Froggies better.
How do I make good ninja deck?
>>146900114
>good
>ninja deck
lol
just use the new advantage creating cards (demise and poc) and summon shit like dark simorgh during your opponent's turn
other than that, use a normal ninja engine and a lot of stun
>>146874708
Because it will win worlds if you take it there
>>146874934
Vortex is one hell of a drug
>>146887594
Dark sanctuary was a good start, we definitely need this though
>>146894359
>>146894320
Get it Kaijued like I did
>>146900114
You don't. Since the good Ninja cards end and begin with Hanzo and Ninjitsu Art of Transformation/Super Transformation.
>>146899721
Wasn't really sure what to cut for Rescue Rabbit, Unexpected Guy and three vanillas. Maybe the salvages and cutting down on Beautunaful, but I'm a little concerned about banishing too many vanillas with Cupidity.
>>146900114
By hiding it.
>>146900601
And of course, I forgot to post it.
>>146899548
nah i just stormforth
shit triggers me desu
Why dont you own a first edition Starter deck Blue-Eyes /dng/?
>>146901374
Because I don't collect trash cards.
>>146901374
Because I got 3 Unlimited Starter deck Blue-Eyes that I wanna drop now.
