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/krog/ Kronos General
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You are currently reading a thread in /vg/ - Video Game Generals

Thread replies: 255
Thread images: 155
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<Big Guy> edition

/krog/ guilds:
Kronos 1:
OG nost refugee server, minimal queue. 1x RATES
<You Think You Want It> - Horde
<Salty Dogs> - Alliance

Kronos 2:
Brand new server, 1x rates. 1K queue (around an hour), most people are around level 20-30 right now.
<Big Guy> - Alliance
<Nihilum> - Alliance
<Damage Control> - Horde

Info:
http://www.kronos-wow.com/

Questions to avoid asking:
>What class should I play?
>Is Nostalrius coming back?
>What is the best class for PvP/PvE?
>Why don't we roll on X server?
>Is Kronos pay2win?
>What class does X guild need?

FAQ: http://pastebin.com/YbPhHZ7j
ADDONS: http://pastebin.com/pvfNSeN0

Client Download and Connection Guide: http://pastebin.com/3vpxc0jG

BiS Lists: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j81TgG0p_HrYKajiUiQfYIoSUx1culzy2u_Fc4wtiS8
Leveling Specs: http://imgur.com/a/aNm8V
Leveling Guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-Z2vplxWZACKmCpw1B8vexKQ2vwjRqFRjcJhHjAxx
>>
Human or NE warrior? Gonna tank.
>>
>>140827150
NE for dodge
>>
>>140827150
female NE for the animations
>>
hey guys all this talk about Nost has made me want to try vanilla wow. Which classes are needed on this server? How do I download the game
>>
>>140827150
Human for rep and weapon skills.
>>
>>140827008
>HELL SEGER
>>
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>>140827008
U U U U
>>
>Leveling Guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-Z2vplxWZACKmCpw1B8vexKQ2vwjRqFRjcJhHjAxx

anyone got a working link?
>>
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>>140827008
>2 alliance guilds

which do I join?
>>
>>140827150
NE for the booty
>>
>>140827190
So the human expertise/skill on weapons that allows the warrior to bypass glancing blows and get more rage and threat isn't a better factor than dodge?

>>140827235
>Female
Never enjoyed any female animations other than Female UD.
>>
>>140827008
What is <Big Guy> and why should i ditch <Nilium> for it
>>
>NostBegins:
>We did not have a meeting this weekend. We will have one in the future, but no precise date for now.

NO PRECISE DATE

What a sorry bunch of fucking cucks.
>>
>>140827418
female has really good animations for warrior imo and no one wants to be a male NE
>>
>>140827546
>female has really good animations for warrior imo
Not in my opinion, but different tastes, I suppose?
>>
Too many fucking Horde on K2. Reroll to Alliance guys! Let's make it 50-50
>>
>>140827502

nost devs are a bunch of cucks
>>
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>sverigedemokrater
>>
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nostfugees actually feel for the k2 meme

>3 months minimum of mc patch, mc/ony on farm, no good end game raiding at all
>bugged honor system, lvl 19 rogues with 100k+ honor holding top 3 standings
>playing on a server with EXCLUSIVELY kungen fanboys, even the vg guild is NAMED after kungen ffs
>k1 is at the same point in time where nost would have been, perfect blizzlike server population (3000-5000 active players), perfect 51/49 faction balance, good raids available, perfect honor system

youve been shilled xD
>>
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>want to play a nelf with nice manly mustache
>all best classes (mage, paladin,shaman) can't be played by nelf
>>
>>140827283

Tanks are always most in demand but if you havent played before you should roll something less important but still in demand like a caster dps (warlock or mage)
>>
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>>140827691
>sverigedemokrater
Vad sa du nu?
>>
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how are hunters on this server? or in vanilla in general
>>
>>140827823
Pets are fucked in a bad way but hunters aren't bad
>>
>tfw pvp starts and you go to 1k+ ms w/ a 20 second lag spike

being an ausfag is hard
>>
1k que FFS
>>
>>140827781
druid is the only choice
>>
>>140827823
Easy to learn, hard to master. Anyone can play a huntard but once you learn the class and get good with it it's a lot of fun.
>>
>>140827987
But I already leveled druid to 60 on nost.
>>
>>140827443
no /krog/ people there
>>
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=44061

HAHAHAHAHAHA
>>
>>140827926
how are they fucked exactly?
>>
>>140827008
><Big Guy>
What?
>>
>>140828379
>https
>>
>>140828421
Scared twitch baby detected
>>
>>140827931
fellow ausbro please tell me if playing on this server is worth it or not
>>
>>140828421
HELL SEGER is a meme in /int/'s swedish thread so maybe it's their guild?
>>
>>140828421
it's literally a guild full of memeing swedes

feel free to join it :^)
>>
>>140828416
You tell your pet to attack something and they get stuck and stop moving, your pet can disappear somewhat randomly, redirecting your pet is kind of a pain what with line of sight and you having to des pawn your pet or logout. It's weird but you get used to it.
>>
>>140827749

Okay well most of your points are retarded and thus I will not respond to them, but can someone explain a little more about how the Honor system is bugged like it is? Is this more Kronos-unique scripting that they pushed as a feature to cover up their inability to code it correctly in the first place?
>>
>>140827823
Very mediocre other then for leveling, on PvP they are pretty gear dependent too
>>
>>140828551
Just wondering how it's a /vg/ guild because it wasn't posted at all before.
>>
>>140828770
Kill yourself finalfaggot
>>
>>140828421
HELL SEGER
>>
>>140828759
>>140828776
could I at least get away with playing a warlock or should I just roll mage again
>>
>>140828919
You don't have to take it so seriously.
>>
>>140828919
Go warlock m8
>>
>>140827749
where do you see the honor rankings?
>>
>>140828770
Nice response faggot
>>
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HELL
E
L
L

SEGER
E
G
E
R
>>
VI SPRINGER HELA KANALEN HELL MOTHERFUCKING SEGER SKJUT EN NEGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>140828291
Oh so it is a normie guild? Why is it in the op?
>>
>Nost devs now trying to suck Blizz's cock.
>Probably going to help them with their "Pristine realms".
>No longer releasing the source-code.

Yep. Bunch of fucking cowards.
>>
>>140829032
I already deal with 400 ping I don't want to make it any harder than it has to be
>>
every day theres a fucking 1k queue on k2

why cant they get their shit together and increase the limit
>>
>>140828291
>no /krog/ people there

What did he mean by this?
>>
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HELL SEGER
>>
>>140829301
There's not a queue during America time.

Yurofags lose again
>>
yo can any allyfags tell me how much Lesser Bloodstone Ore sells for on k1?
>>
>>140829404
0c
>>
>>140829246

Because some spastic made the thread.
>>
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Who /duel wield/ here
>>
>>140828586

Another ausbro here. Its been fucked since like 3pm aest sunday but i had next to no lag an hour ago so they might have fixed something
>>
>>140829659
Better not be a warrior, mate.
>>
>>140829751
are you blind?
>>
>>140829659
>dual wielding before 60 and without hit gear as a warrior

lmao shitter
>>
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>>140829659
>axe+dagger dual wield
this is almost as retarded as the warrior from <DIF> with the dagger build
>>
>>140829838
No u are
*bandages*
*restealths*
*cheapshots*
>>
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>>140829751
>>140829861
>having to pick between a 2.5 attack speed sword with 13 damage a second and a 11 damage a second axe
>against a 14 damage a second 2 hand
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Give me a good 2h and I might use it.

>>140829889
>dagger
xddd no
>>
>>140829743
tank
no
tank/tank
kronos is shit but its the least shity private server
k1 is k2 isnt
tank
>>
>>140829246
Most definitely not normies

t. not normalfag
>>
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Is this guy cheating?
>>
>>140829727
>>140828586

Pretty much. When the server released it was fine, no spikes or anything, just your average 330-350 ms which is fine.

The last 2 days have been terrible for some reason, so idk if it will get better or not. If this spiking/huge lag in instances & pvp goes away, then it's totally fine for aussies.
>>
>>140830307
>guy
>girl in the screenshot
>>
>>140830367
>wow
>girls
>>
There's just so many fags on this server

Horde is a fucking no-go quarantine zone of kungen kids rolling shaman and warrior and Alliance is well... it's Alliance so it's full of all the avatarfags, ERPfags and gnomes, not to mention it's almost as full of twitch kiddies.
>>
>>140830307
How in the literal fuck, this guy was level 19 like 2 days ago
>>
kaiser where you at senpai?
>>
>>140828770
Go cry about trinkets pussy
>>
>tfw you don't particularly like dwarves but you feel obligated to make a dwarf priest because they have the best priest racials.

Why do I do this to myself.
>>
>>140830390
lots of girls in <Nihilum>
>>
>>140830480
I think multiple people sharing account. He doesnt remember me and I had contacted him few times.
>>
>>140830330
I have no idea how and im most likely a retarded cuck but when i logged into battlenet i stopped lagging
>>
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>>140830751
Proof. taken april 29
>>
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>he doesn't stock up on stimulants for the 60 grind
wew lad
>>
>>140831007
>level 20 mage in 10-19 WSG


what
>>
>>140831214
Join queue, turn in quest.

All there is to it
>>
>>140830690
im girl, just dont tell
>>
>>140831363
me too
>>
>>140831363
>>140831432
hey girls its me another girl
>>
>>140831324
how very silly
>>
>>140831432
just dont say u are and no cares
>>
>>140831363
>>140831432
>>140831503
Me too, just got back from school :c

Whatcha doing cuties?
>>
>>140831797
Just playing with my hair :3
>>
>world of queuecraft
At least this will never be a problem in retail lmao
>>
>>140831007
Who cares
>>
The King arrived boys
>>
Is there a Pre-Raid BiS class tier list?

Also is either /krog/ guild looking like they'll be doing any end-game raiding at all (or even hitting 60 lmfao)?
>>
>>140832613
SD is somewhat alive. YTYWI has a healthy following with a small handful of 60s so far. They might be able to do 20 mans.

K2 guilds are still riding the hype train. Too early to tell.
>>
>>140832613
>/vg/
>endgame raiding
No. Maybe a couple of bosses in one tier before the dysfunctional degenerates ruin everything.
>>
>>140832772
as a dysfunctional degenerate I can confirm
>>
>>140832613
honestly I think a lot of people will get fed up with Kronos if the current situation doesn't disappear

t. tier 2 holy who would happily level back up if it wasn't for all this queueing bullshit along with Kronos' abysmal scripting and funserver aspects
>>
Join <Big Guy>
We have a cute grill
>>
>>140832772
There was an ally guild on nosg that cleared ZG/Ony/MC so its not impossible
>>
Join <Nihilum>
We have a several cute grills
and even more cuter boys :3
>>
>some autist already has revered WSG rep and can get best twink items at x8 levels
Seeing shit like that reduces my morale to keep playing
>>
>>140833797
What? People are already 50+ and THATS what reduces your morale? Some idiot that BGed instead of leveling.
>>
>>140834000
It's revered. You know how long it takes?
>>
What's everyone's opinions on the /exp off command for twinking?

Funserver detected.
>>
>>140834072
He's only level like 29. There are 50+. Do you know how long that takes?
>>
>>140834072
If the queues are fast enough exalted takes like 3 days.
>>
>>140832687
SD is still alive and kicking
>>
>>140827150
Honestly, Humans weapon skill only matters for certain bosses that are hard to hit, thus you need the highest possible weapon skill and have to use a Sword or a Mace in your main hand.

However NELF tanks will be picked over you as 1% dodge is important for raiding as it becomes tanks fourth most important stat in terms of gear.
>>
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Did I do good, sempai?
>>
>>140834989
no one is THAT autistic to pick a tank over another one just over race, play whatever u want bud
>>
>>140833560
List them so we can harass them.
>>
>>140834408
Who leads it now?
>>
Find a leveling song comfier than this, I dare you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXUm_gsCIfA
>>
Is k1 ded? I dont want to switch over to k2 and level all over again, i just got to 30 and it took weeks. Plus k2 players seem pretty autistic from this thread.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mDV0vskn6k
>>
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>NEETS spend all day grinding to 60 while everyone is taking their time
>ding 60
>no one to do BGs with, raid with, or dungeon with
>have to wait for everyone to catch up
>>
>>140835931
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVRdhg6biN0
>>
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>>140836042
>>
>>140836042
I tried to reroll on k2, after waiting a in a queue for an hour the starting zone was like lord of the flies
>>
>>140836379
>only 200 on queue

dead server lmao
>>
>>140835160
>brotastrophe
When was this? I dont remember ever saying that
>>
This queue is shit and Heinz sriracha is even SHITTIER it just tastes like fucking tabasco
>>
>>140836886

I have no idea, sorry, but you're not very memorable ;_;
>>
>>140836362
They'll probably make new accounts in the meantime, fuckers are addicted to the grind like crack.
>>
>>140836362
>not making a second account and gearing a twink
>not making a second account and powerleveling it
>not ganking lowbies day in and day out
>>
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suh dude
>>
>>140837141
Whwn you high as fuck 90% of the time that happens
>>
>>140837452
rtz a shit
ppd #1 drafter
>>
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>fart
>smells like putrid death
>odor lingers in room for 30 minutes

This is what grindan does to me, /krog/
>>
>6 minutes left
>8 minutes left
>12 minutes left
>68 minutes left
>88 minutes left, 110 people before me

FUCK YOU KRONOS
>>
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So does anyone know how they ban you in this server? Is it by account or IP?

Seeing as they offer a character transfer service, would it be possible for me to simply make an account and play on a new IP, transfer my character over and have a complete clean ban slate?
>>
>>140836362
>not camping stv while nobody else can stop you
>not farming devilsaur leather for mad dosh
>>
>>140837556
>ppd #1 drafter
xD
>>
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>>140837817
>get world first 60
>head straight to redridge
>>
>>140830915

I'd give anything for this to work for me.

>ms is down to 370

m8 if this works I'll owe you something
>>
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KINGS
HONOR
>>
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Threadly reminder to meme every chinamen into the ground.
>>
>just sent a ticket to Blizzard asking if there's a way to test Legion because I want to know if a refund on it would be worth it

Legion Beta here I come

kek
>>
how do I report this server to blizzard? You shouldn't be allowed to play this for free
>>
>>140838470
gnomish engineering is the way to go, right?
>>
>>140838624

Is this bait?
>>
>>140838624

But we can't even pay money to play this game. There is no other way to play than with a private server.
>>
>>140838908
You can sub to the legitimate servers
>>
>>140838794
Yeah don't let those tryhards with their bombs and dynamite meme on you
>>
>>140838794
Most would say goblin, but most of the things each can uniquely make are BoE.
>>
>>140835871
Some 60 mage, hes alright not a bad guy
>>
>>140839039
cool. hope you guys keep on going. I like the occasional YTYWI/SD skirmishes.
>>
>>140838990

Which legitimate server run Vanilla?
>>
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>>140838624
>>140838898
>>140838908
>>140838990
>>
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>>140838794
>>
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>tfw you haven't even moved 10 spaces in the last 20 minutes waiting to get in
>>
You dwarves are alright.

Don't go to STV tonight.
>>
>>140839228
Come to k1 either faction please
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN_Wi2awrRg
>>
>>140839354

BRING IT, FAGGOT
>>
>>140839354
thanks lad
>>
>>140838267
If you live in melb can get me a drink at autism/beta bar
>>
>>140839393
I'm going k2 horde to continue my chink scalp hunting legacy
>>
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>>140839393
>please
>K1 fags are this desperate
>>
>>140839732
3111 m8
>>
>>140839789
Goodluck friend
>>
>>140839885
Yeah i only know the ringwood areas
>>
>>140839881
>not being well versed in ironic shit posting
>>
>>140839393
Reminder k1 is full of babbys who used the x6 exp event and can't deal with 1x exp
>>
>>140840036
>>140839732
what server/faction are my fellow ausfags playing on?
>>
>>140840090
Remember nost is full of babies who needed extra rest xp because they cany handle 1x xp
>>
>>140840036
noice, ringwood is pretty close, I live near shoppingtown
>>
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Rate my healslut out of 10 sexy boys
>>
>>140840180
K2
Alliance
All i do is shit memes in gchat because of lag
>>
>>140840451
>Would degrade and bully until break down crying then cum and dump/10
>>
>>140827371
big guy is swedish tbch
>>
>>140828421
its a swedish guild
Swedes are literally the worst people on the internet
>>
>>140840451
w-what did you do with the big troll behind you...?
>>
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>>
>>140840451
>>140840992
TROLL'd
>>
>>140840180
k2 horde
>>
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>>140840790
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2kNll73LSk
>>
>>140841180
even has subtitles for those of you in the US
>>
WHY IS THE QUEUE LONGER ON A MONDAY THAN ON A SUNDAY
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>
lads, massive horde raid on redridge
t. snitch
>>
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>>140841674
>He didn't log in when there was no queue
>>
RIP Nekoslut 2019
>>
>tfw so neet that someone thinks I'm Chinese
>>
>>140829297
play retail
>>
>>140842623

kek
>>
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RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP RAISE THE CAP
>>
>>140842789
The ETA is dependent on how fast it went down in the last few moments. If suddenly 100 people were to log out at once it'd say 5 minutes or something.
>>
>>140842623
kek
>>
>wait for 3 hours in queue
>play for 20 mins and get bored
1-10 grind is so fucking boring.
>>
>>140843087
If vanilla is too much for you then GTFO and let someone who isn't a cuck in :^)
>>
>>140842789
i just logged out, you can take my spot :3
>>
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>>140836362
>not farming 100g/h in DM:N
>not buying valuable mats the plebs are selling for pennies just to afford their mount at 40
>not being a wow millionaire by the time most scrubs do their first MC
heh... hope you learn economics one day.. kid
>>
>>140843419
gj on getting blacklisted by the new k2 guild already man, took you what 4 days?

serious autism
>>
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>>140841674
>tfw played for 20 minutes when there was a 450 queue
>play a round of dota and try to login
>queue of 1400+
>>
Anyone know an addon that shows how much items are worth?
>>
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>finally hit 20 last night
Moving at a slower pace, should I start heading into ashenvale now? I heard it was safer for horde with all the undead rogues in the area.
Playing my first vanilla priest, I just need to get shadow word pain, wands, and the latest healing spells to stay relevant right? Guide says to get mind flay when rank 3 is available. Any important shadow spells that I should get on my way to 60?
>>
>>140843419
>hiding your name when everyone knows its finalcuck
>>
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>>140843897
it's an old pic i used to trick /nosg/ that i was duping items in DM:N and they unironically fell for it, was hilarious
>>
>tfw no silver to learn skills at lvl 12
huh, it's a strange feel, been around 10 years since I last got this broke in WoW
>>
MURDER
Ituh
>>
>>140843654
Nope doesn't exist
>>
>>140844178
If he means showing the estimated price of items based on auctioneer scans, it certainly does.
>>
>>140843654
Only shows vendor prices but idk the name.
>>
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>>140844132
>saving shit like that as if it were fond memories of a trip you went on
Nothing is more disgusting than an autistic narcissist. Worse yet I'm sure your ego forces you to think you're an epic troll because your existence is so unpalatable to others
>>
So...
Should I go to Kronos or Kronos 2?
>>
>>140844340
I know it does I was just being cheeky because it's something he could easily Google and anyone who has played wow in the last 12 years would know the name of a certain auction mod
>>
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autism
goggles
>>
Which is the most accurate out of Damage Meters, Recap and SWStats?
>>
>>140845028
SW_Stats
>>
>>140845028
Recount
>>
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>>140844659
rude

you should feel honored i'm adding you to my meme pic

it's a pic with bullies i can show to my therapist
>>
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>>140829659
>>140830069
I'm ashamed to share the same class as you. Please re-roll, you absolute fucking trainwreck of casual.
>>
>>140845564
>be horde warrior
>run through BFD two times to get 2x outlaw saber
>tear shit up until whirlwind sword

senpai...
>>
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>Kronos is our only option
>Nostalrius will never come back
>Legacy Servers will never come
The second age of Vanilla WoW is closing. . .
>>
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>>140846206
>whirlwind sword
>>
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>>140846206
>Miss more than 50% of the time compared to a 2h
lol, go back to retail where dw fury is actually something to talk about before hitting end game.
>>
>>140846370

Kronos > Nostalshit
>>
>>140846398
do some math and realize that an extra hit is better than a crit
>>
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>>140846206
>>140846578
>trying to justify picking whirlwind sword
>Going arms before 40
This has to be a troll. You can't actually believe this is the right thing to do? Or are you just another one of those "I play the game muh way!!!1!!" kind of people?
>>
>>140846578
no way u are trying to defend the WW sword right now when its been mathematically proven now for over a decade that the axe is better

this is like arguing gravity doesn't exist or something lol
>>
>>140845496
What guild are you in now? Whats their rule on trinkets?
>>
>>140846578
I'm not sure why you mentioned crit but

compare a 2x damage weapon with a 2x speed weapon, for arguments sake base damage is 50, base speed is 1 hit per 2 seconds and mob health is 425

slower weapon:
>100 after 4 seconds
>200 after 8 seconds
>300 after 12 seconds
>400 after 16 seconds
>500 after 20 seconds, mob dead in 20 seconds

faster weapon:
>50 damage after 2 seconds
>100 damage after 4 seconds
>150 damage after 6 seconds
>200 damage after 8 seconds
>250 damage after 10 seconds
>300 damage after 12 seconds
>350 damage after 14 seconds
>400 damage after 16 seconds
>450 damage after 18 seconds, mob dead in 18 seconds

faster weapon also executes a running mob faster, procs heroic strike faster, tags a mob faster if you missed the first hit

slower weapon is better if you have an instant damage proc, for killing tough mobs with hamstring and for PVP

>>140846838
nobody talked about arms but yes, fury has the aoe slow which is the only real talent node warriors get early on
>>
>>140847497
>I'm not sure why you mentioned crit but
>nobody talked about arms
Except we did. Check the warrior talent tree before acting like you know shit, mate.
>>
hi guys, its me dansken
>>
>>140847774
ur a fgt danksen
t. ereka
>>
>>140847774
How's the bench?
>>
>>140847814
Don't pretend to be me.
t. Erpmaster
>>
>>140847863
Don't pretend to be me!
t. Maresa
>>
Any 19 twink gear guides? Specifically for Warrior but any will do.
>>
>>140846206
>2x outlaw saber
Outlaw saber is from a quest you dunce. You don't get two of them.
>>
>>140847684
if he was talking about going arms with WW sword for sword spec then it was a complete non-sequitur, the point was that muh slow swing speed is worthless until MS
>>
#savetheque
>>
>>140848958
it's a repeatable quest, friendo
>>
hey gays i want join guild pls
>>
>>140848690
learn to pvp faggot
>>
>>140849218
In real vanilla it wasn't. God damn Kronos non-blizzlike shit.
>>
>>140849218
No it's not
>>
>>140848990
>then it was a complete non-sequitur
Maybe for someone like yourself.
>the point was that muh slow swing speed is worthless until MS
That wasn't the point of the argument though. Looks you missed it. The point was that DW misses by a huge margin compared to a 2h-weapon without hit on his gear and the top-end damage is always a priority for warriors, meaning the Axe is mathematically the better choice, which has already been discussed and confirmed almost a whole fucking decade ago.
>>
>>140840451
> piercings
-1, delete this one and try again.
>>
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kek
>>
>>140849990
The kikes are at it again.
>>
>>140848690
>>140849383
>>
>>140849990
well meme'd
>>
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>>140849990
Nice
>>
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>people killing the guy in Attack! before the conversation starts and add spawns
Was it autism? Do people not even skim quest texts?
>>
>>140849549
Is it not on kronos? it was on nost you just needed a fresh party member to summon the water ele
>>
>>140850768
>Was it autism?
No. Giving them an excuse to be retarded would just be a compliment.
>>
>>140843419
which classes can make bank in DM?
>>
>>140849560
top-end damage is the one argument people always pull out to justify WW axe, so no, I don't think it wasn't the point of the sword/axe debate, because it invariably will be.

top end damage helps with:
>cleave
>MS
>retaliation
>WW
>getting kited in PVP

speed helps with
>less overkill damage on mobs so they die faster
>kill runner mobs more promptly
>better HS rage dump
>>
Is there a recent census for kronos 1 and kronos 2?
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