Remember, =Noonc= bul'you will be out on January 19th. Get hype!

>>128465104

The logo bothers me so damn much. It's like they didn't run it through more than one person.

>>128465104
>>128465556
I can read it just fine. You really see noone bulyou?

>>128465891
It's =No*nE= bul' you

>>128464663
Is this a lovecraftian vn?

>>128466295
It's a nakige, so expect feels.

>>128465891
I can only read it because I already know what it says. I don't think someone who DIDN'T know the title would parse that heart as a 'o' without a lot of confusion.

>>128465556
>>128465891
Maybe they meant the studio logo. The studios name doesn't stand out and the image with it seems really random.

>>128468269
We're clearly talking about the game logo, which is atrocious.

>>128468376
How much do you think they paid for it?

>>128469035
If they paid for it instead of making it themselves? $50 to $250.

>tfw still can't think of a final name
How did you guys name your projects?

>>128470471
By going through an endless list of puns until I found one that seemed amusing to me.

>>128470471
I name it after what the game is about.

Is there a: person, location, or item that could be used in the title?

>>128470605
And this is how you end up being politically incorrect

>>128470471
it takes a while but one will fit eventually

>>128470759
How so? Also, I wouldn't care.

Looking for evns on vndb is annoying. Some had demos years ago and so far no releases. It's really annoying when I sort by date because they're at the top of the list. Are projects like Paradise Plus and I Only Date Free! still being worked on?

>>128473740
vndb is pretty shit but get used to it. paradise plus is dead i think

>>128474280
Can dead projects be pruned? I'd imagine it'd be easier if said projects had official announcements surrounding their abandonment.

With evns especially, it's not a good idea to add them unless they have a release date posted.

Has anyone ever considered making a chuunige in the vein of Fate/Stay Night, Dies Irae, Tokoy Babel, Demonbane, or Fortissimo?

>>128474708
Nevermind, I found a game from another dev that only lists the trial release date, mentions the game was discontinued, and just didn't put a TBA date for the full version. That way people know it existed, but it doesn't clog up upcoming releases.

>>128474935
I don't think anyone in /evn/ has the budget for that. You'd need a ton of CGs to pull it off.

>>128470471
Tried to think of as many puns with "soul" as possible.
Gave up and just did a brainstorm session of all the themes of the game.
Gave up and just called it bullshit, I'll name it right before I actually start letting other people know it exists.

>>128474708
There's a thread to suggest projects for deletion, although the VNDB mods tend to want evidence that it's definitely abandoned before deleting something.

It may be easier to get rid of TBA releases for games that have existing demo releases, because then you're not trying to get the entire game removed, just to get the junk out of the search results.

>>128475374
How much do art asset services go for? Can't they use crowdfunding to get the rest of what they need?

>>128474935
I'd probably end up making it a VN/RPG hybrid instead. A big chuuni story background and some actual gameplay would both be easier to get the huge playtime and more popular with western audiences, I think. Steam users would rather fight for the grail by fighting than by reading some descriptive fight scenes.

>>128476497
technically, sure, but it's a lot more complicated than that. You can't just handwave "I'm gonna make a great game, gimme this money pls!" and hope it works out.

A lot of us have enough trouble getting the artists we've paid for to actually finish the work at all.

Now, some people do dream bigger... but many of their kickstarters fail unfunded, or succeed and then we wait years for a game that hasn't shown up and everyone's confidence slowly dips. If Exogenesis ever actually comes out and is successful, people may suddenly be more willing to take risks?

>>128476497
the naivety hurts.

>>128476556
I can see what you mean. A VN/RPG hybrid might bring in a bigger audience.
>>128476556
Thanks for the reply. It was very insightful. You'll have to excuse me as I'm not too aware of the EVN community. I usually stuck to JVNs. I wasn't aware of a project like Exogenesis; it sounds rather interesting.
I'm mostly asking because I know Tsukhime and Mushi no Me were doujin and albeit cheap (filter photographs for backgrounds and a handful of BGM tracks) they were rather fun to read. Perhaps something along the lines of those might sit well with some instead VNs like https://youtu.be/cfQUL_n89XM
>>128477494
As stated above, I apologize if I've come off as an idiot but I'm not too aware of what goes on in the EVN community.

>>128478921
If you do put in RPG fights, design them well or get someone to do that for you. You don't automagically get a bigger audience because you tick another box in the feature list. Battles have to be engaging.

>>128478921
No problem. Another interesting project recently whose kickstarter didn't quite manage to get enough funding: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cccn/quantum-suicide-friendship-courtship-hardship-spac

I think they're planning to retune and fund again. Hopefully they'll manage it next time.

Is Winged Cloud kill?

>>128480117

> 50+ hours

I'm never getting over it.

>>128480210
why, because they haven't released 5 games yet this month?

>>128480210
>14k on Patreon
I'd say they're doing alright

>>128480210
i mean... been about three weeks since their last release.... so.... ya

Second reply here >>128478921
was meant for >>128477075

>>128479805
Well I'm pretty sure that's self-evident. I was merely musing as to why there were so many OEL VNs limiting themselves the structures of JVNs (such as otomege, homoge, etc; I'm pulling this out merely from my experiences on Lemma Soft and the schlock I see on Steam). Though what others stated does give me some insight into as why (such as the cost for CGs).

>>128480117
Ah that's a shame. The background art looks great although the character art leaves something to be desired. The premise has potential.

>>128474935
/evn/ is full of women, SJWs, and "the medium can be so much more" people who don't want to mimic JVNs. Even if they had the budget, I doubt they'd make anything like a chuunige.

Decent fantasy and sci-fi is the most you're likely going to get.

>>128482097
Well, if you don't want to mimic JVNs, you could always mimic western comic books. Not the shitty way that the Vera Blanc games did, something with tight bodysuits and action scenes. There's some hot stuff out there.

>>128474935
it would be extremely cringy

>>128482097
Well that's a shame. I think chuunishit would do really well for western audiences.
>>128482381
That's indeed a possibility though I think something more along the lines of YA fiction might do better with audiences.
>>128482467
It depends on how well it's written. Dies Irae is chuuni bar none but its captivating and entertaining because of the writing and characters. And honestly its not as if could be any worse than the schlock I've seen on Steam or Lemma Soft.

>>128480210
Sakura Dungeon is going to blow your mind.

>>128482381
Many western vn developers don't even play vns, they just can't afford to make other, more mainstream types of games. The complete lack of action evns tells me that's not where the devs interest lies. Their stories tend to be more focused on relationships and identity.

>>128483039
>its not as if could be any worse than the schlock I've seen on Steam or Lemma Soft.

I hate this mentality. "Oh this 1/10 meme game is a piece of shit but at least mine is a 2/10!"

>>128481152
>I was merely musing as to why there were so many OEL VNs limiting themselves the structures of JVNs (such as otomege, homoge,

Well, I already pick games of other genres for their husbando material, so I might as well cut the middle man.

>>128484053
same. I don't even play some of the games anymore, I just find out the names of the cute guys and look at fanart of them.
Sometimes it works out in my favor, like for The Evil Within.

>>128484245

I'm anal in the sense that I can't just read the summary or watch a let's play, but husbando choices are the reason why I still put up with Bioware's shit, for example. (and why I didn't bother with Fallout 4).

VNs offer the same and are more convenient.

>>128483941
Because every time we try to make something that isn't focused relationships, all we hear is "Why couldn't I date this character?". I'd love to focus more on an epic adventure, but that's not where 80% of the audience's interest lies.

>>128484724

Hello, WW.

>>128484050
Why? Even if it is cringe inducing you can at least applaud them for trying something than the shit that is always shoveled out. A little diversity in genre doesn't hurt anyone.

>>128484820
Hi, JP.

>>128484053
>>128484245
>>128484549
So >>128482097 was right in his statement? The reason most OEL VNs don't produce other content aside from dating sims, otomege, or homoge is due to the fact that a majority of OEL VN developers are slash fiction rejects?

>>128484549
I watch no commentary let's plays if I can't afford the game (or don't have the system to play it on), I watch a commentary let's play if it's by someone I like and it's a really bad game they can make fun of or a game they know a lot of trivia and shit about, and for everything else I look at the list of characters to see if there's anyone cute. If there is I look around for fanart.
I can't remember the last game I bought on release. New Vegas maybe?

>>128485519
No, it's the same reason most JVN are dating sims/bishoujo games and the like: because that's what the majority of people like. For every chuuni battle game you have tens of dozens of school life romances. The EVN scene is much smaller, so there's an appropriately tiny amount.

>>128485519
Yah they're all by TUMBLR LANDWHALES get the memo

>>128486198

this reminds me, does anyone follow any VN or renpy specific tumblrs/blogs? I have fyeahrenpy and visual-novel-interfaces (and renpyhandbook but that hasn't updated for months). Obviously most stuff's on lemmasoft when it comes to tutorials but I wouldn't mind more graphics/ui stuff on my dash.

>>128486145
You're absolutely right. I take back my previous statement. Nonetheless, I feel a bit disappointed at the quality and variety. I'm sure there are those in the EVN scene who know of titles by Ou Jackson, Romeo Tanaka, Takashi Masada, or Gen Urobuchi (not that I praise anything from him aside from his writing) and might take after them.
>>128486198
Okay.

>>128483941
>Many western vn developers don't even play vns, they just can't afford to make other, more mainstream types of games.

I think you're inventing a straw shitty developer here.

>>128485091
>the shit that is always shoveled out. A little diversity in genre doesn't hurt anyone.

Very few people complaining about the shit that is "always" shoveled out actually have any idea what's being released and wouldn't notice your supposedly-different game.

Ask a handful of EVN posters and you'll probably get "All EVNs are shitty boobfests", "All EVNs are weeb japanese high school knockoffs", "All EVNs are katawa shoujo clones", "All EVNs use filtered photos and stock GUI", and all sorts of other random assertions which don't agree with each other and aren't true.

Your special game won't change their minds.

>>128485519
>a majority of OEL VN developers are slash fiction rejects?
If that were true we'd have a lot more BL games being produced.

If you were serious in your question, you need to learn that most 4chan posters aren't serious in their answers.

>>128487426
People have said as much in this very general. There was even a guy a while back who asked about what our pet peeves were and things we liked in VNs, because he hadn't read any but was going to write one himself because he liked the look of the medium.

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>>128486782
>I feel a bit disappointed at the quality and variety.
Do you actually know what the variety is, though, or are you the guy who's seen some awful AJ Tilley games on steam and assumes that this is all that EVNs aspire to?

We have horror games, we have time travel games, we have games that do not have romance routes, we have RPGs, we have cyberpunk, we have a lot of stuff.

We do tend not to have super-long games because of budget and workforce issues though.

>>128487785
Yeah, but do you think that guy actually ever made a game?

When you say "many western developers" it sounds like you're talking about the people who are producing games, not an anon who wandered by vaguely once.

Maybe I'm overly picky by not counting Idea Guys as developers.

>>128488181
>that guy
He wasn't the only one. Several other people said they didn't play or necessarily even like VNs.

>>128487618
Now I never once purported that a chuunige is any way special or different than other VNs but would be interesting to see produced considering the volume of other things being developed.

>>128488017
I have. Time travel games, horror games, cyberpunk is all fine but my previous criteria about quality is still left unfulfilled. The writing and dialogue in many of them is cumbersome and dull. A great premise can still be vastly fulfilling in the wrong hands. None of them has so enraptured me with their execution.
Anyway I'm gonna stop here before I make a complete idiot of myself (if I already haven't). My original question was noting more than a simple musing so I apologize if I've come of as abrasive.

>>128489279
You haven't, you're doing fine. Sorry, I just run into a lot of people who judge all games by the worst two they've seen, and I feel like a lot of people even in /evn/ don' actually care about other evns and don't know what's out there.

>>128488309
But are any of them actually developers, who have developed games?

>>128489831
You tell me. No one would ever admit off anon that they're just settling.

>>128488017
I kind of want to check Sickness out, but the art looks like it's all over the place.

>>128491479
At first glance, I'm fairly confident that the CG artist is the same one as the one who did Detective Butler.

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>>128492329
That face.

So, No One But You is going to be the next Steam evn release?

These evns sold the most copies on MangaGamer's site in 2015.

>For the third-party titles the top five are:

>1. HuniePop
>2. Beach Bounce
>3. The Menagerie
>4. Divine Slice of Life
>5. Sakura Santa

http://blog.mangagamer.org/2016/01/13/2015-in-review/

Here's what the competition was made up of:
Huniepop - January 19
Ecchi Mery and the Perils of the Cosmic Shrine - May 8
Beach Bounce - August 14
The Menagerie - October 2
Divine Slice of Life - October 23
November 18 - Highschool Romance
Sakura Swim Club MG Edition - November 25
Highschool Possession - December 9
Harajuku Dating Paradise - December 10
Sakura Santa - December 21

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>>128497196
>HuniePop
>visual novel

>>128464663
So should I expect feels from this game if Akemi Homura is in it? I guess.

>>128497196
Kind of sums up how shitty the evn scene is quite nicely.

>>128470471
"[Insert main theme here] Otome" is the beta name. I haven't brainstormed any fucking ideas yet.

Is taking stock images and putting them through a filter appropriate for backgrounds? Are there any background image resources?

>>128498831
But anon, everyone on Steam knows that visual novels and dating sims are the same thing.

>>128499472
Uncle Mugen and lemmasoft forums

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I am working on three projects: one is a kinetic novel, the second one is a side-scroller ADV (a la 1bitheart) with three-ish different endings and the third is an RPG/eroge hybrid with 7 routes.

Which one is /evn/ most interested in? The second chapter of the KN is done, the sidescroller's full outline is finished, and the RPG is 3/7th the way done (outline-wise). All of them need to be edited.

Pic related, it's the protag of my kinetic novel

>>128500409
>I am working on three projects
I guarantee you will never finish any of those.

>>128499472
You better hope the story really resonates with people.

>>128500409
>Here's three things and no information about any of them, which do you want to play the most?

>>128500409
One at a time bruh.
Also eroge is always the best choice

>>128470471
Took a physical constant related to the setting, truncated it to two digits, and called it a day.
It sounds cool and mysterious now.

>>128500905
its a tutorial to going from a neet that browses 4chan into a functioning member of society that works as a femboi camgirl thats is cock crazy

>>128502785
You'll be alright

>>128499140
only if you consider 'the evn scene' to consist primarily of short games full of tits?

>>128500409
The one that doesn't suck which may not be yours

sakura gang rape dungeon when

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>tfw you wanna make an LGBT themed evn
>know multiple voice actresses that work on evns
>have money to pay them
>have time to work on it
>don't know any artists
>writing is a pain in the ass for me
>no one will probably even play my game and the LGBT stuff will just cause a shitstorm

>>128507951
Basically, you're just a lazy piece of shit.

>>128500409

Your projects all sound doomed so I am not interested in any of them.

Having a second chapter done means jack shit. Having an outline means less than that. And having 3"/7th" of an outline, holy fuck, I would fire anyone who told me they were 3/7th of the way done with anything.

Completing a VN is actually not very hard. The trick is to work on the same one until it is done, do not get distracted by other projects, and keep fucking producing. That is all you have to do. However, this goes well beyond the capabilities of an average person, which is fine since average people are pretty garbage. They do stupid shit like buy CGs, BGs, and Sprites when they do not even have 10% of the game written. They outline and outline and outline and barely get anything done.

It is really easy for us to critique shitty EVNs but the competition is not even showing up.

>>128489659

Not really. Most EVNs are extremely poorly written. Sentence structures are simple. Ideas are lifted from anime, movies, or high-school level literature. The writing is basically fan-fic level and most of the writers do not seem intelligent or well read.

I would love to compete, however, even a financially successful EVN would not rival my salary. It would have to reach the levels of HuniePop to justify spending my time on it. Such are the perils of career success.

>>128509918
>They do stupid shit like buy CGs, BGs, and Sprites when they do not even have 10% of the game written.
What if they've got the script in their head?

>>128508289
where can I find artists or a writer
please direct me to one that would be willing to write/draw an LGBT evn

Story, characters, and route planning is taken care of.

>>128510274
deviantart.com

I bet you've never even tried looking for or contacting any.

>>128510401
how am I supposed to tell if they'll do VN work or not?

I contacted one artist over facebook and the moment I said the main character is transgender he backed out immediately
And deviantart writers are a cancerous bunch

>>128510620
You ask them, dummy. And you keep asking until you find someone.

>>128509918
>Sentence structures are simple.
Every time I try some fancy shit, people yell at me to simlify it. Granted, I'm a filthy ESL plebeian, but the complaints aren't about grammar or syntax.

>>128509918
>Not really. Most EVNs are extremely poorly written. Sentence structures are simple. Ideas are lifted from anime, movies, or high-school level literature. The writing is basically fan-fic level and most of the writers do not seem intelligent or well read.
Definitely agree. The writing in many of them are bottom of the barrel. It doesn't matter if the art is pretty or it has a long list of features when the core element in EVNs is so piss poor. You ask anyone who reads JVNs if they're interested in EVNs or on the look out for an interesting titles and they'll respond with "not really" because the quality is subpar to what they usually read.

>>128507951
>the LGBT stuff will just cause a shitstorm
You're making excuses. In general nobody cares.

>>128511058
>they'll respond with "not really" because the quality is subpar to what they usually read.

No, they'll respond with that because they ASSUME the quality is subpar. It's not like they'll have played any of them, except maybe Sakura Spirit.

Over and over again I see this in VN communities.

Sure, I can name a few EVN writers whose skills are shit, but I've seen JVNs that are pretty bad too, and the translations are all too often downright terrible.

>>128511449

This. People are either blinded by their weebness or biased against evns because they only try the shit stuff, while thinking all jvns are good because only the "best" stuff gets enough recognition to became avaliable in the west.

>>128510769
is DA and tumblr the only options? Thought there was like a fiverr or voice123 for this kinda stuff

>>128511572
Not unless you run around making a big stinking deal about it and maybe not even then. There's tons of indie game projects with special snowflake content these days. You're more likely to be ignored.

I mean, if you go out of your way to bait people then they might bite, but...

>>128511694
Please tell me you're trolling and not seriously suggesting that you want to hire people to write novel-length works for $5 / from a voice acting site.

>>128500602
If Mogeko can work on multiple games and a commercial manga, so can I

>>128501029
Which genre out of the list is your favorite, then? The first one is a remake of an old script I posted on /evn/ ages ago, I doubt anyone remembers it though

>>128509918
ok

>>128511987
>Which genre out of the list is your favorite, then?
You don't even know what genre means, fairly guaranteeing that everything you make, if you even make it, is going to be shit.

>>128511889
voice123 is not $5, its pretty much commission work and a lot of voice acted evn's like huniepop got their cast through voice123.

>>128511987
That's not how it works, but okay.

It doesn't matter which is my favorite if I don't like or care what it's about.

>>128511449
>No, they'll respond with that because they ASSUME the quality is subpar. It's not like they'll have played any of them, except maybe Sakura Spirit.
Not quite true. You'll see them play some of the more popular EVNs (Juniper's Knot, Katawa Shoujo) and be turned off by what they see because their rhetoric and content is absolutely abysmal.
> but I've seen JVNs that are pretty bad too, and the translations are all too often downright terrible.
Absolutely but the difference between that and EVNs is that there are competent writers in the JVN scene. I saw someone in this thread post Ou Jackson, Takashi Masada, Tanaka Romeo, Gen Urobuchi, and I'll through in others like Hiro Wataru and Setoguchi Renya. If there were any good writers you'd see them name dropped here or there to have the naysayers change their mind about EVNs. Yet where are they?

>>128512061
I'm tired, dude, give me a break

I wonder whatever happened to the tranny lady maker project that was supposed to be like princess maker except you were saving up for your transition and improving all your prettiness stats along with the other things.

>>128512303
>If there were any good writers you'd see them name dropped here
Problem: the most critically acclaimed EVN writers are women, so mentioning them starts a shitstorm.

>>128512501
The exact same thing that happens to 99% of projects like that. They realized it was actual work and dropped it.

>>128512632
No it doesn't, what the hell are you talking about? Are you making up imaginary women-on-the-internet problems now?

Nasu is the god and master of VN writing desu.

>>128512745
Okay, I'll mention that Christine Love is one of the most critically acclaimed writers working in EVN.

>>128512876
You name a pink-haired feminist transsexual and you think the issue people have is "she's a woman"?

>>128512632
>Problem: the most critically acclaimed EVN writers are women,
Then pray tell, who are these writers? Even the JVN scene has incredibly competent female writers like Sakurai Hikaru who's craft is heads and tails above most male writers in JVNs.
>>128512876
>that Christine Love is one of the most critically acclaimed writers working in EVN.
Now you're being facetious.

>>128512970
I wasn't aware we were racist against hair dye now. I need a scorecard.

>>128513046
>>that Christine Love is one of the most critically acclaimed writers working in EVN.
>Now you're being facetious.
No, I'm proving my fucking point. It's literally true. Remember all that mainstream (well, for gaming) media attention over Digital?

But we can't admit that here, because she's not the paragon we want to have.

>>128510274

Send me an email at [email protected] with your contact info (pref skype). I'll add you to Skype and we can discuss it. I am a writer. Keep in mind this would be commission work (i.e. you would be paying for it).

>>128513260
Having media attention for your game does not equate it to having quality writing. Love's writing is something that should be sold at checkout aisles for discount instead of being fed to the masses as anything else than kitsch.

>>128513260
Analogue also got an honorable mention nod for narrative in the IGF a few years back. There's a Hanako Games title that's a finalist this year. Last year the award went to 80 Days (Meg Jayanth) but I don't think Inkle counts as VNs, they're pretty much pure text. 80 Days got lots of awards though. I wonder if she'd do straight VN?

>>128513598
>The most critically acclaimed writers are women but if we name them there'll be a bunch of whining.
>"That's not true! You're making that up!"
>names names
>immediately the whining begins

>>128513260
>It's literally true.
It's literally not. No one dislikes her writing because she's a woman, you retard. But you're probably a woman yourself who wants to blame all your problems on the big bad patriarchy, huh?

>>128513731
Yeah but you can't say >>128513598 is actually wrong either

>>128513731
Note wherever in the conversation I stated "critically acclaimed." I said "competent." Love is the antithesis of competence. It's as if saying J.J. Abrams or Michael Bay is a good director for making hit films.

>>128513838
>No one dislikes her writing because she's a woman, you retard.
If we're going to keep going at this, that's literally false, I've seen multiple people immediately drop Analogue when they find out the writer is female.

I'm sure you'll invent some reason in which this is all her own fault and totally not because anyone else is at all disposed to prejudgment.

> yet another tranny argument

jfc evn.

>>128513959
They drop Analogue because they can't stand the heavy feminist ideology in it.

>>128513924
Sure, but at that point you're bringing it down to your own personal opinion, which makes it impossible for anyone else to have meaningful input.

That's why I went with "critically acclaimed" rather than outright "popular". HuniePop and Sakura Spirit are popular, but nobody claims the writing in them is any good.

There are people who think the most critically-acclaimed JVN writers are shitty hacks retreading the same material too often, too.

>>128514027
No, SOME people drop it because of that. Those people are sensible.

Others quite specifically, in forum conversations, find that the author is female and immediately say they're out.

>>128510993
Yeah, a lot of non-writers seem to think the longer and more semi-colon riddled your stuff is, the greater it is.
The most you'll do is give people a headache unless they're already used to reading shitty purple prose from turn-of-the-century british novels.

Save the 12th grade reading level and Dickens-esque writing styles for technical passages or the asshole character that tries to come off as philosophical and wise but just sounds like a "I tippeth my hat to you, m'lady" dillweed.

>>128513046
>female writers like Sakurai Hikaru
>Sakurai
>female

I guess you missed the shitstorm a few weeks back

>>128514441
Please, dish the gossip!

>>128514178
>but at that point you're bringing it down to your own personal opinion
The quality of Love's writing does not swing to good or bad depending on the opinion of someone. It's ineffably bad. Compare her writing to say Nabokov, Dostoevsky, Kafka, or even genre writers like Jack Vance or Gene Wolfe. They are heads and tails beyond her ability and yes the JVN scene has writers on that level it's just that those writers' works aren't getting translated due to the intricacy of their writing.

>>128514497

A while back a noteworthy JVN writer made a comment on Twitter wondering if more people thought Sakurai was a woman or more people thought that one of his co-workers (a woman who uses a male-sounding penname) was a man. It blew up but the next day he deleted his comments but basically confirmed that it was true but not meant to be public knowledge jokingly saying he'd accidentally revealed a "national secret" and to never speak of it again.

>>128514292
MOST people who drop it do so because of that. A minority drop it because the author is a woman.

Quit your bullshit saying her writing causes a shitstorm because of her gender. You know full well it's because of the content and actual quality.

>>128514635
>The quality of Love's writing does not swing to good or bad depending on the opinion of someone. It's ineffably bad.

Funny, then, that critics disagree with you.

>Compare her writing to say Nabokov, Dostoevsky, Kafka, or even genre writers like Jack Vance or Gene Wolfe.

Have you noticed that your list of examples has an interesting skew?

>>128514682

No, but I think I could write a character that is one well and want to make some money off of writing while getting practice.

A transgender character is not something I would plan into my own story, so it is good practice to get things that I would not plan. They have also finished all of the planning (or so they claim) so it's just execution work. Basically, I want to start doing some commission writing and I feel I am well above market in terms of technique. For me this is a "serious hobby". I want to help people get their VN produced and would be willing to work on any subject matter, so long as the project is actually going to see the light of day.

>>128514635
>yes the JVN scene has writers on that level it's just that those writers' works aren't getting translated due to the intricacy of their writing.
Names?

>>128515009
Good luck. A good way to get your name out in the VN circle would be to do editing/proofreading as well, I would think.

>>128515073

Mareni.

>>128514779
Of course they're a minority! I was replying to someone who was insisting that such people didn't exist at all.

As far as people discounting authors in general just because they're female, it's half in jest but not entirely. There's an awful lot of scoffing in here about SJW whores, even though much of the thread is secretly female, and themes which are considered manly are often held up as more worthy than themes which are weak and womanish. There are many people who believe that nothing good could ever be found in otome. However, I don't actually think this is /pol/, not by any stretch.

Remember, women can do no wrong. If someone dislikes their work, it's absolutely because of their gender, not because of the content.

>>128514941
>Funny, then, that critics disagree with you.
An appeal to authority won't salvage Love's prosaic writing.
>Have you noticed that your list of examples has an interesting skew?
Who do you want me to list? Marcel Proust or Dan Brown?

>>128514635
>and yes the JVN scene has writers on that level it's just that those writers' works aren't getting translated due to the intricacy of their writing.
Nip writers are racially inferior. That's why they almost never win Nobel prizes for literature. Russians far outstrip them.

>>128515460
Of course but until Russian Nobel prize winners start writing VNs, I'll keep recommending those.

>>128515435
Psst, she's saying that because you're listing all men you're just proving her point that you just hate Love's writing because she's a girl.

>>128515435
>An appeal to authority won't salvage Love's prosaic writing.
My apologies, the appeal to authority was not intended. Let me rephrase: if her badness is so self-evident that it is not, in the slightest, a matter of opinion, it is strange that not everyone agrees with you.

>>Have you noticed that your list of examples has an interesting skew?
>Who do you want me to list? Marcel Proust or Dan Brown?

I don't want you to list anyone in particular. But it was rather an interesting list for multiple reasons (not just the maleness)

>>128515669
>it is strange that not everyone agrees with you.
So now you switch to an appeal to majority? Suave. Brava.
>>128515669
>But it was rather an interesting list for multiple reasons (not just the maleness)
Oh. You wanted women? Then why didn't you say so? How about Emily Bronte or Jane Austen or perhaps even Virginia Woolf? The point of the matter is that sex doesn't matter. Love is a dreadful writer irregardless.

>>128515562
That was the most obvious catch, yes. The predominance of writers that you're only reading in translation (unless poster is a polyglot) and the age of the writings in question were also noticeable.

While I would not actually accuse the poster of this, because it's not like I know him or his tastes, there are people who find original-foreign-language works to be inherently more "deep", because of slight differences in common tropes, and because of granting them extra leeway due to the fact that you're only reading a translation. The age is also an issue. Some people only consider literature to be worthy after it has been around for a good long while, and somehow feels more like Art than like popular entertainment.

Please note that I am not saying that poster only dislikes CL because she is female, writing in English, and under 80. Only that it was an interesting list.

>>128515957
Not the person you're arguing with but it would probably help your argument if you could name authors other than the ones you learned in middle school English t b h

>>128516075
Who do you want me to name? David Foster Wallace? Herman Melville? Thomas Pynchon? William S. Burroughs?

>>128515957
>So now you switch to an appeal to majority?
I'm sorry, do you actually understand the terms you are using here?

Do you understand the logical problems inherent in "my personal opinion is not a matter of opinion, my personal opinion is fact"?

>>128516075

I was actually going to say this. Plus if we're looking at the VN medium I would say that J. K. Rowling, Anne Rice, Stephanie Meyer, and Suzanne Collins are much more relevant.

One of the issues with VN writing is that I could actually just focus on making a very marketable YA Novel and would receive way more money that route if successful. If successful as a visual novel you get maybe $100k-200k for a year of work. Whoopie. That kind of money is only a big deal for kids who do not have real jobs or own real estate/assets/anything.

The problem is that 4chan is so lower class that 100k+ a year is viewed as a "good" salary or some people even think it's incredible. It's basically dirt, but people are very timid to accept that.

>>128516370
>It's basically dirt
Get off your high horse jfc

>>128516370
>100k
>basically dirt

nice hyperbole senpai

>>128516370
You must live somewhere with outrageously retarded costs of living for you to consider a $100k salary dirt, or are a trust fund baby with no actual concept of money.

>>128516241
Do you? Read over what you said before.
>it is strange that not everyone agrees with you
It is appeal to majority.
>Do you understand the logical problems inherent in "my personal opinion is not a matter of opinion, my personal opinion is fact"?
Fine. I'll concede to this for the sake of argument. That then is but merely one writer, one. Where then are the rest?
>J. K. Rowling, Anne Rice, Stephanie Meyer, and Suzanne Collins
Perhaps. But there is still a wide gap between what EVNs and these author's dish out.

>>128516370
>That kind of money is only a big deal for kids who do not have real jobs or own real estate/assets/anything.

You do realize that most devs treat it like their hobby, right? 100k a year for something you do ON TOP of your regular job is pretty good.

>>128516370
It's a pretty impressive salary if you live in Poland.

>>128516370

Look guys, it's poli-sci-kun!

>>128516648
Well, he's got a point. The most successful EVN authors made about a million bucks on their games. That pales compared to the most successful YA authors.

>>128516803

Different skillsets and different market.

>>128516803
>a niche product sold less than one widely accepted by the masses
What a shock

>>128515957
I'm not in this conversation/discussion/whatever, but are you guys talking about females being unfairly criticized for their work because of their gender?
Because I wouldn't bring up Emily Bronte if you are as an example of females being respected as writers, she and her sisters had to use pen names just to get their stuff read and not be thrown in the asylum for writing those filthy novels at the time. Austen's fine, her pen name was "A Lady", and I don't think Woolf used a male pseudonym either.
>>128516370
Following that train of thought, the publishing house had J.K Rowling (Joanne) use her initials instead of her full name to attract male readers, though I don't think that's on the same level as "these Victorian women are writing novels, send them to the asylum boys"

Anyway, just a thought while I was scrolling past these posts. Carry on.

>>128516984
Clearly we should chase the masses to make big $$$

>>128517001
>I'm not in this conversation/discussion/whatever, but are you guys talking about females being unfairly criticized for their work because of their gender?
No. Just in general the quality of writing of EVNs compared to JVNs written by competent writers.

>>128516582

Anyone who makes less than 100k a year is fucking retarded. There are way too many viable routes that do not even require college education and only require easy as shit community college.

Nurse -> Anesthesiologist $300,000k AVG (Basically zero effort on this one, requires education)

Profession of Choice -> PMP Credential -> Project Manager 105k+ (if you do not have HS or college you can focus on a construction related trade and get this training /cert for less than $2kq, otherwise you can get PMP with any other credential and they all play well. Especially humanities ones).

Pharmacist -> Easy as fuck and they take damn near anyone. Does not have upside of other gigs.

Cop -> Most cities and counties in real places (east coast/west coast/chicago) start recruits at 80k. A few years of lockstep pushes you to 100k.

Air Traffic Controller -> Probably a fucking charity. $100k+ at start. All you have to do is not have a fucked up background.

You can also consider many military test-on positions. Anything GS-11 and above will pay 100k+ and if you're not fucking retarded/average, you'll just get it immediately.

When I was unemployed during the great recession I did a test-on with the gov. Returned to 100k immediately. I was 25 at the time. I remember looking around the room of mostly ethnic idiots and wondering how anyone could miss a question on the test-- but apparently people did.

Sorting things in alphabetical order 2 hard.

>>128517226
>Cop -> Most cities and counties in real places (east coast/west coast/chicago) start recruits at 80k. A few years of lockstep pushes you to 100k.
That's wrong lad. It's 60k starting at LA.

>>128517110
I don't think you can really compare the two. Japan has a huge history of VNs and so many hundreds of studios. EVNs are still a pretty small/niche thing. It's comparing apples and oranges.

>>128517226

> list is either high risk jobs or jobs where people's well-being is directly your responsability

oh yeah, totally comparable to making games from a living room.

>>128517417
Ah, I see, you're a coward.

>>128517226
You've still not proved that $100k a year is a bad salary.

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>buried by Sekai Project on launch
>no trading cards
>steam spy estimates sales might be as low as negative

Let's all bow our heads for a moment in remembrance.

>>128517675
Would've sold better if they'd gotten naked.

>>128517675

I feel bad, but I wanted it to fail. I found the art style gross and the general premise to be extremely stupid. I am not glad it did fail because that means things are rough, but wow did it not deserve success.

>>128517361
Only a few of those are actually relevant the rest are atrociously bad but it's not as if the thought hadn't occurred to me. Rather the issue at hand was addressing some of the flaws in EVNs that could make them a bit more popular with naysayers who only read JVNs.

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I don't remember hearing about this one when it came out

>>128517904
Me too.

>>128517870
>. Rather the issue at hand was addressing some of the flaws in EVNs that could make them a bit more popular with naysayers who only read JVNs.
I think that conversation would work better if we had a concrete example to discuss so people would stop yelling about straw men and derailing the conversation.

Maybe we should find a game to savage in detail.

>>128517904

That looks nice. What is it?

>>128518024
http://store.steampowered.com/app/411760/
Looks like it's made by Russians but the english in the trailer looks all right

>>128518286
Hooo. Looks nice.. and cheap!

>>128518008
Perhaps but as of now I'm getting physically tired. I've got to wake up early tomorrow to take care of some things. Whoever it was I was arguing with, I mean no ill will. Happy developing.

how do I have the characters post their inner thoughts on social media without it coming off as "what the fuck is this game doing, nobody would just post about how much they're starting to like the MC"

How do you guys deal with procrastination? What compels you to sit down, stop shitposting, and get some actual work done?

>>128522545
Sometimes you can't just force procrastination out of you. Sometimes it goes away after months of inactivity and you go back to being productive and faster than before. That's what happens to me. Dead for months, then sudden inspiration and hyperactivity for days non-stop, then dead again and repeat.

Watching someone else making progresses sometimes helps in the way "So many people are releasing their games. What am I waiting for? I want people to see my creation as well! The faster I work, the sooner I'll get their feedbacks!"

Making visual novel for me is fulfilling because you can make people experience feelings you dictate. When I work on something, I can't wait to see how people react and why

>>128517675
Steamspy isn't necessarily negative. Black Closet was in the negative for a while too and I doubt it could have sold so bad.

>>128517675
>"We're doing a shit job at promoting evn but we're working on it."

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is it acceptable to make a vn with the sole purpose of pushing an agenda? I know a couple "big" evn's did this with homosexuality but I don't know how well received they were All the dialogue is a lot of conversational hypnosis and agenda pushing on players.

I'm pretty much trying to convince the male players to become twink femboi traps and take slutty pictures

>>128526150
>is it acceptable to make a vn with the sole purpose of pushing an agenda?

No.

>I know a couple "big" evn's did this with homosexuality

No they didn't. Are you hoping someone will actually believe you when you say that?

>I'm pretty much trying to convince the male players to become twink femboi traps and take slutty pictures

Okay, in THAT case releasing a game with an agenda is fine.

>>128526339
>No they didn't. Are you hoping someone will actually believe you when you say that?

Heileen series

>>128526339
Half of Winter Wolves' games are either "BEING A STRAIGHT GIRL IS BAD, MEN ARE AWFUL! LESBIANS RULE!" or "THE BEST MEN ARE GAY MEN!"

Like Heileen 1 literally turns into a rant from the writer about how much she hates men and likes being a lesbian

>>128526150

It depends how good you are. The better you are at writing, the more you can push or get away with. You do not seem very good and your agenda seems very difficult. I don't think this is going to work.

I plan to vigorously push anti-"transgender" messages. However, subtlety is the key. Rather than being explicit about my message I just intend to touch on the real reasons I am opposed to the "transgender" pedagogy. It's very difficult to criticize someone who advocates honesty and authenticity in their visual novel.

>>128526449
>Like Heileen 1 literally turns into a rant from the writer about how much she hates men and likes being a lesbian

uh, didn't Winter Wolves write Heileen 1 himself? that was before he started hiring writers. and that's why your stepmom is a hot babe in lingerie who hits on you, because that's perfectly normal in Italy

>>128526449
>Half of Winter Wolves' games are either "BEING A STRAIGHT GIRL IS BAD, MEN ARE AWFUL! LESBIANS RULE!" or "THE BEST MEN ARE GAY MEN!"

That's because it's written by self-hating men who think they're required to put themselves down in order to get pussy.

>>128526686
oh god please not again
is EVERYONE in this thread latent?

>>128526469
Bruh I don't give a shit about transgender stuff I just get off to mind control and feminine cocks. Doing both at once just gives me the hardest boner in the universe. I've already convinced a couple friends to become cock slut "traps" to the best of their ability.

>>128527270
>mind control feminization
doin gods work

What's the weirdest/most useful feature you've seen someone put in their game?

>>128528942

Any game that has an exact "go back to scene" feature. I love these things. There should be more of them.

>>128528996
You mean the thing where you go into history and click a line to get taken back to it?
I can't remember any EVNs that use that, although I know some JVNs do. I wonder if it's feasible with Ren'Py.

>>128528996
Doesn't that only work if your game has almost no variables in it? Very useful for replaying a mindless H-scene though...

>>128529726

Apparently not. It's used in Euphoria which does have a good amount of variables.

I also like their "countdown to CG change feature".

>looking through game code for "inspiration"
>start screaming at them when I see a really awful and time consuming way of doing something

Why would you define over 200 images yourself? Why?

>>128531491

You have to keep in mind that if you see errors like that it means someone who is not a programmer is programming. Not all projects have the budget or team to get a good programmer, so you're going to see duct tape dreams played out.

>>128532263
Im pretty sure the auto define is a free code thats been around since 2009 or some shit. I've also seen some doing it in 3 lines of code for the whole game.

It really depresses me when i see stuff like that because i know if you even add a new sprite expression you have to go into the code and define it.

>>128533184

Cool, no idea what that is, but I am glad you do. Keep in mind the things you can contribute are not the same as what others can/do contribute. I can understand what "auto define" is from context. But to know how to use it would take time. Manually defining things for a single project is probably not as time consuming as learning how to automatically define them. Especially when the goal is "get this out the door" vs "execute all aspects brilliantly."

>>128533938
>But to know how to use it would take time. Manually defining things for a single project is probably not as time consuming as learning how to automatically define them.
you dump the free code into your script and set up the folders like the guide tells you to. jfc

>Especially when the goal is
The goal is not to waste hours having to define every single image in the game and run into errors later on when you forget that you added some wink emotion to side character b.

>>128518817
don't directly say it's MC they're thinking about
or don't even say that they're having romantic feelings, just leave hints

>>128518817
hi batensan

>>128515435

>Dan Brown
>Good

You're literally just naming names of authors you've heard of at this point.

>Ask CG artist to fix an odd lighting bug and the background being squished at the top since he used a game background
>Completely redid the background and lighting
>Turned out incredibly well and much better looking

Not what I was asking for or expecting, but the story had a very happy ending.

Monstrous lover is still kill

>>128541876

Sorry, anon! I actually got better during the weekend, but I had a lot of stuff to review with my lawyer (like the possibility of a US company, trademarks and the voice acting contract) and that kind of took priority over the rest.

The good news is that the demo is done, so you guys should be getting the link tomorrow.

>>128517852
What's wrong with 2 pure hearted yuri maiden lolis in love?

>>128542552
No ero.

>>128526449
Roommates didn't push any agendas that I could tell, except to accept everyone's differences. Sally and Dominic were straight and treated as good people.

>>128513260
Dischan got alot of recognition for their "amazing" vns. And quite frankly, after playing them, I never saw what people were so impressed by. The art was okay. The vns were short and felt unfinished. And the writing itself didn't expound the plot or characters very well and seemed like unnecessary bloat.

>>128543197
I liked Juniper's Knot, the story was short but told nicely and the graphics/GUI looked really, really polished. I don't know if I'd say it was exceptional, but I thought it was definitely good.
Maybe you felt let down because there was too much hype and it didn't live up to your expectations?

>>128542506
>the possibility of a US company
dish

>>128543595
Sekai Project

>>128543308
>story was short but told nicely
No, it wasn't. The fiend's past was never explained well. You never even found out why she was imprisoned. And they also threw random facts about her at you with zero explanation. She broke up a marriage, but saved another one? WTF?

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>>128543662

>>128543595
>>128543662


Formally forming a studio in the US rather than here. I was a little wary because of taxes, but according to the lawyer there's a tax treaty that makes it slightly less complicated than what I thought.

I'm looking into it because unless one of the potential investors has a GREAT offer, I'd rather not split profits with other people (so I'd do a Kickstarter instead).

>>128543803
Yeah but it didn't need to be explained. The point of the story was that she was trapped, not what she did to deserve it - especially since it's evident from the story that, no matter what it was she did, nothing would have been worth such a terrible punishment.
The fact she broke up one marriage but saved another is just to show she has a fickle personality - and has no qualms being fickle with humans or their lives, because she's a demon, and is a different species.
I mean, she could have had more backstory, but imo it's not necessary and not relevant.

>>128546728
>not what she did to deserve it - especially since it's evident from the story that, no matter what it was she did, nothing would have been worth such a terrible punishment.

Did you miss the part where she massacred an entire village because some guys raped her friend? Also, the village massacre would've made perfect sense as the reason for her imprisonment, but the fiend said it wasn't the reason.

>she could have had more backstory, but imo it's not necessary and not relevant.
Glad to know making developed characters is optional.

juniper knot was boring and the only reason anyone cared was the art and the free content

>>128547415
But she's been trapped for like a thousand years or something, do you think any crime anybody could commit is worth being punished for that long? All the humans she could possibly have wronged must have been long dead by this point, so nobody knew why she was imprisoned anymore except her.
I feel like this is the main point of the story - that, yes, she did a lot of awful things, but the punishment was too severe.

Yeah, I mean, I could write a huge thesis on every single character in every story I ever write, documenting when they were born, what their first word was, when they took their first steps, etc, etc, but it's not important. You don't need to outline a whole character's history to make them more 'developed', you just need to show how they react to the situations they find themselves in and the other characters they encounter...

>>128548664
The punishment for that many murders would usually be death or life in prison, so her punishment wasn't unusual. For all we know she couldn't been a terrible person and only her long imprisonment made her change for the better, because she had time to reflect on her actions. Though anything anyone comes up with is headcannon because the story was made vague.

>>128549095
*could've been a terrible person

>>128548664
I'd like to add that the fiend's past was relevant to the story, because it kept being brought up.

>>128548664
>when they were born, what their first word was, when they took their first steps, etc, etc
Yeah, you're right, that stuff isn't important. However, considering the whole point of the game is her imprisonment, knowing why she was imprisoned is kinda important, m80.

But did she fug the shota?

Analogue: A Hate Story and Juniper's Knot both have female characters that killed entire civilizations, but are still supposed to be seen as sympathetic by the audience. What makes it worse is that there are people who actually defend their actions and say they clearly suffered enough so that it excuses their actions. I disagree with this, because it would be like excusing a school shooting because the kid was constantly bullied. If people do bad things, then they should be punished, regardless of if they're sorry/suffered.

>>128550364
Juniper's Knot =>a forced chastity that will take a long time to end

And they had a sequel planned, so I'm tempted to say "yes". However, we don't know if the fiend was a lesbian or just a bisexual.

>>128550398
Saying what they did was understandable =/= they shouldn't be punished.

>>128550930
It's not understandable.
>A few people in this society have wronged me, so all must die!

Have you ever written a character that the audience just didn't seem to understand /evn/?

Even a mediocre JVN outperforms any EVN on KS to date.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mikandijapan/libra-of-the-vampire-princess-visual-novel-english

>>128556326
You can't call something mediocre if you've never read it. No, I don't care what you heard some guy on /jp/ or reddit say.

>>128556689
It's a slice of life, but with wacky vampire hijinx, and some chuuni thrown in. It sounds fun, but I wouldn't say it's the next Harry Potter.

>>128557030
I didn't say it was going to be a 10/10 multimillion dollar franchise but every time I've seen someone call it bad it's because "well some guy on reddit didn't like it"

>>128556689
Okay so one can only assume you've read it and found it good? It also bombed in japan.

>>128557605
I'm not forming an opinion on it until I've read it.

Lots of great games have bombed, see ZE for example.

In short, your opinion on whether it's good or not is worthless unless you yourself have read it.

>>128558201
>your opinion on whether it's good or not is worthless unless you yourself have read it.
And people wonder why JP plays and reviews games like the Sakura series.

>You can't judge it without playing it.
>Why do you keep playing these games you don't like?