Discussion about the making or playing of Original English Language Visual Novels save for the ones from /ksg/.
Do you have a question about a Japanese visual novel or a translation of it?
/vn/ is ready to answer it.
>Getting Started:
http://pastebin.com/7LsCvtq3
>Recommended Reading:
https://vndb.org/v/all?q=;fil=olang-en.tagspoil-0;o=d;s=rating
For Developers. Huge collection of guides on everything:
http://meganelover.com/post/122965940223/visual-novel-creation-masterlist
Ren'Py Download:
http://www.renpy.org/
Previous thread: >>127180440
Remember to BUMP THE FUCKING THREAD every three hours please
>jam game
>first time devving
>had to doctor sprites for CGs
Why is this guy charging for his game anyway?
>>127616218
I didn't even see those legs in the last thread. Wow.
>>127616914
What game is this?
>>127617347
A wild catgirl appears. Come on man, keep up.
Not only that but she's half the size of the lockers
>>127617347
Highway Blossoms.
>>127617429
I was hoping I just wasn't following along right.
>>127616732
Why, according to the Steam charts, are people actually paying for it?
>>127617654
Because the sprites are decent and it sounds like it could be a fun little game for three bucks. They know not the horror that awaits.
>>127617954
Or they're like me who say OP pic and rushed to buy it
>>127616218
This is comedy gold. Keep them coming.
>>127617540
rude
I like how the steam store page tags it with "Memes"
http://www.siliconera.com/2016/01/04/feed-a-cute-demon-in-yuri-visual-novel-strawberry-vinegar/
ebihime should've rethought the ages in SV. Half the comments are people going "Nine year old yuri? No thanks"
how long has salty tears been in development and why is it taking this long
>>127619650
Their site says 2012-2015 so since 2012-ish?
But you think that's long, I started my project Freshman year of high school/late middle school. I'm in my last semester of college, gonna get my BS in Comp Science soon. I think I've done like 3 screens for GUI and doodled character designs, that's it.I mostly just pop in, smile when I see people actually doing work on their stuff, then pop back out. No real presence or anything.
>>127619493
I think the yuri angle is weird in this case and yet they're using the word everywhere.
>>127620180
do russian people ever get confused about yuri?
>>127620180
>both previous games are yuri
>obviously the developer is suggesting yuri is the proper outcome in this one with copout a "well you don't have to"
>somehow people calling it a yuri game is weird
>>127620279
there's the cap from milo in space or whatever that kid's show is where (based on Yuri Gagarin) they call cool stuff "yuri" like "that's so yuri" and all the weebs who saw it were laughing their asses off.
>>127574124
if people followed your broken logic they'd have to gather up all the lesbians and lock them up for insisting that all men need to die/be put in jail/sterilized. none of this is even that bad even though it's dumb, I actually knew someone who knew a trans person who (bless their corrupt yet naive soul) that they could pick up more chicks if they were a lesbian.
>>127574679
you'd be surprised how often it's a couple of chucklefucks that complete change someone's opinion on a topic.
>>127620279
Russia's official policy on lesbians is that they need to disappear or be put in jail but they also had that lesbian pop group tatu for a while so it's safe to know they know about yuri
>>127620616
>they also had that lesbian pop group tatu
You are now back in the early 2000s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mGBaXPlri8
Wish I knew why SteamSpy consistently under-reports this particular game. The actual sales are well outside even the +- boundaries and have been for a while...
>>127620828
completely unrelated, but they reminded me that dido was a thing.
>>127622754
oh wow, the guy from bones is in the music video for white flag
>>127620616
>>127620828
those two aren't really gay and were just playing up the fake lesbianism for show. That's why the Russians were A-OK with it. It's like a Russian version of the Class S stuff in Japan.
>>127622519
>>you can say you are a woman but you aren;t
and what makes them not?
if you really want to get technical lots of women aren't women, theres a whole class of women who where born with y chromosomes and are immune to androgens. are they men?
what you keep failing to confront is that if people act like you, and kept a snapshot of the worst of the bunch in their minds for a group at all times, what do you think they would say about the tribes and peoples you belong to? how seriously do you take their claim? are lesbians just fucked up insane female supremacists? is that what we are to you as well?
>>127622519
I used to believe men weren't evil but then I saw an anonymous poster on 4chan admit that all men secretly want to rape and murder, and that opened my eyes!
>>127623335
yeah so? Most women have to be proactive and change their behavior because they inherently distrust men. Does that mean all men are evil and want to rape and murder? No of course not, but that doesn't stop women from acting a certain way in order to protect themselves. It's the same reasons why fathers and brothers get all protective and defensive when female family members are near male strangers.
>>127623332
>but most transwomen aren't born intersex
[citation needed]
Intersex conditions are as common as red hair, and that's not even counting chromosomal chimerae. Most people don't know. It's generally not obvious.
You probably have no idea about all of your own genetic abnormalities, because they haven't impacted your quality of life.
On tonight's Late Night With /evn/, things get personal.
>>127623519
Wait, your argument is now that you agree it's perfectly reasonable to hate all men because of an anonymous post?
whyyyyy are there so many trans/futa/gender issues discussions on /evn/????
man, look at all this video games
>>127623835
Because /evn/ is full of women.
>>127623065
Different anon, I've always wondered something and never gotten a straight answer.
Everyone only has one frame of reference for what a human mind is like; their own. Given that, how would anyone figure out that their gender doesn't fit their sex?
I mean, personally I don't have any concept of gender to my mind. I'm male because my body is male, that's all there is to it for me.
The only thing I can think of is related to gender roles and norms but that doesn't seem quite right.
Help me understand this.
>>127623835
Because people can't ignore trolls.
>>127623696
>>everybody's intersex one way or another hyuk yuk
>also citation needed for your claim mate.
Not everyone has red hair, hun.
http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency is a start point, and there's a lot of disorders they aren't counting there.
For 'contains some cells whose chromosomes don't match the overall body, but no symptoms at all' there ARE no frequency stats because there just haven't been enough studies done.
Never said all transwomen are gorgeous ladies (plenty of cis women aren't)
>>127616218
So... what this looks like is that the producer did not have enough budget to hire an artist for this, so he copy pasted the sprite (which has no legs), copy pasted a towel over the midsection, and drew... "legs" dangling from beneath, as well as the horrible figure up front?
Is that what happened here?
>>127623835
Politically active evn devs.
>>127624063
I don't totally get it either. I think a lot of it does have to do with gender role expectations, which is why you have a sect of radical feminists who hate transgirls because they feel like they're projecting a mockery of femininity by fixating on "girls like makeup and shopping!"
Humans are constantly bombarded with information on what's 'normal' for male and female behavior, we start that shit practically right out of the womb. So I can't blame someone who is constantly told that "these things are girly, only girls like them" for deciding that they must be a girl. But I don't think that's all of it, either. I assume there's also some identification issues, where you see female people / characters / whatever and think to yourself "That's what I want to be like" They may be reacting to their own idealised version of what A Woman is like, it's kind of hard to tell. But then, don't we all spend a lot of our time playing dress-up and attempting to present ourselves in a way that reflects how we feel about ourselves?
>>127624369
As I said in the other thread, I really wonder how the sprite artist feels about this. It's one thing to have totally different sprite and CG artists, plenty of games do that. But taking bits of the sprite art and pasting them and doodling on them in ways that might suggest that the sprite artist did this (in a very half-assed way) seems like poor brand representation.
>>127616218
I just realized the towel is placed so they didn't have to draw the other hand. Not angling it to hide it behind the back, they stretched out the towel in a way no towel would ever work so they didn't have to draw the hand. Amazing.
Fuck, I kind of want to hook up the tablet and draw over it.
>>127625197
I've actually spoken with that artist before and asked them how they would feel about their art being modified and they said that was fine. Although my example was just regarding having someone else colour the lineart so I dunno if that would extend to something like this.
>>127625649
Well, most people can tell that it's been done by someone else, so it's probably not a big deal I guess
>>127625028
oh and cause I forgot, we, well, most of us, know that you don't want to go on a kill spree, the problem is you are saying we should treat a group of people based on a couple of nerds you saw on 4chan, and the same shit would logically apply that we do the same with lesbians, who also have a vocal minority that hate men.
over all its very common for people who are in a more dominant position to not have malice to the people they're denying and opposing. why shouldn't they be ambivalent rather than scornful? they're comfortably in their seat of power. things were just getting good? why do we suddenly have to change everything for the wierdos?
>>127626880
I don't know what this is but I am suddenly reminded of Dumb and Dumber where they sell the kid a dead parakeet.
>>127626662
Haven't spoken with you yet, but wow, you are not really an intellectual and should stay away from the arguing thing.
oh come the fuck on mods. If you're gonna delete my arguments, at least delete the other ones too. Both parties are off topic here on /evn/
Threadly reminder to NAME AND SHAME (con)artists.
>>127629075
Looks neet
>>127627556
>sekai project promises to do more to promote their EVN partners
>twitter feed for launch day is almost entirely full of Root Double Hype
>>127629383
It's almost like they're trying to burry the EVN stuff
>>127629383
That's kind of fucked up. They couldn't wait one day?
>>127628221
it happens. kind of shameful but i'm guessing its because they tend to just not like certain posters and take out their aggression on them. I mean look, they deleted the answers but left the question. all its going to take is more people responding to the question. you have to delete it if you're actually concerned about off topic.
>>127629481
Doesn't it make you eager to sign away your beloved project to them so they can take a cut of the profits?
Would it be possible for an evn to catch the nips' attention and get adapted into an anime?
>>127629639
They just blindly delete shit that gets reported.
>>127629637
Or they couldn't tell the dev she was launching on the day they were going to bury her with JVN news?
>>127629896
>Would it be possible for an evn to catch the nips' attention
A handful of games have gotten some attention over there
>and get adapted into an anime?
... eh. not literally impossible, but highly unlikely. With the language barrier and lack of existing contacts, an english game would have to be VASTLY more popular than a corresponding japanese game to have any chance
>>127630131
>A handful of games have gotten some attention over there
Which ones?
>>127629952
The trading cards aren't even ready yet. Launching today makes no sense.
>>127629896
Well, Sunrider will be available fully in Japanese both text and audio, so maybe it will be adopted by them. Anime highly unlikely though.
>>127630202
katawa shoujo, analogue, long live the queen, and apparently bionic heart oddly enough. those are the ones I've heard about being discussed by some japanese players
>>127630131
Is cute art enough to get the japs to play the game even if it isn't in japanese?
>>127629639
>>127629931
eh, i doubt there's boogeymen SJW mods deleting posts they disagree with. It's just butthurt anons reporting them and the mods followed suit.
>>127630581
Bionic heart really? Show proofs
>>127630761
Probably. It's enough of a reason to get them to play their own games half the time.
Making said cute art in a way they'd appreciate is another matter.
>>127631134
Yeah, though which evn has cute art that mostly resembles Jap games?
>>127630852
sorry, i just remember jack talking about seeing it discussed on some japanese blogs or something, can't dig up a ref for you
>>127631231
run the sakura game names through translate and see if you can get any hits in moon?
>>127631590
Wait, which ones?
>>127631695
Disregard this I'm a faggot.
Post yfw sakura angels gets an ova
>>127632461
if it's got animated sex i'll treat it like any other h-ova, skipping to the good bits and ignoring the plot
>>127632730
Hey man, some of those are good. I don't remember the name but there was one I just wound up watching because the story was so darn cute, and I never do that.
Then they fucked while the girl 'erotically' ate pizza at the end and it kind of ruined it.
>>127633340
I exaggerate slightly, some are watchable.
And even if I'm just looking for a hot scene to rabbit to, I appreciate the framing plot, it makes the sex scenes more interesting
>>127633481
>rabbit to
gay
>>127633512
Is it gay if I'm self-inserting as both halves of a het couple?
>>127610176
hi kinjo
>>127633821
nah its fine with me if you want to go FUCK YOURSELF BOOM YOU STEPPED RIGHT INTO IT
> http://blog.fuwanovel.net/2016/01/looking-ahead-the-vns-of-2016/
Prepare for the flood
Look at the sales the catgirl game is getting, even though it's shit.
Repeat to yourself: You don't need a publisher.
>>127640597
How do people not feel ashamed asking for money for such shit?
>>127640867
You need to overcome shame if you want to be in marketing.
>>127640597
Catgirl is another meme game that people are buying "ironically". That's pretty much how steam goes these days. Lots of teenagers
>>127644823
winter wolves i take it?
What does the EVN market need right now?
>>127651102
More memes, less serious stories.
>>127651102
Men
Please help, Looking for that VN about girls living in a nuclear fallout/apocalypse, anyone know about it? I remember anons saying it was a mod(not really sure) and that the picture was a girl wearing a gas mask with visual novel UI.
I would like to write for an english visual novel.
Do you think I should just drop the idea and live peacefully?
>>127652290
That depends. Are you an SJW?
>>127653881
No but I am not a /pol/-tard either
>>127654456
Follow your dreams
The urge to give into temptation and sell out grows stronger every day, and this catgirl atrocity is like the final nail in the coffin. Convince me not to do it, /vg/.
>>127657927
Do it.
>>127640867
They probably look at the bills and think of the mortgage. That'll get rid of my shame.
>>127657927
You might have one hit meme game, but then people move on and no one would ever take you seriously again.
>>127657927
It's not like it's some wild runaway success, dude.
>>127658026
Anon pls.
>>127658283
>no one would ever take you seriously again.
But I mean there are people who take sakura shit and huniepop seriously, right?
>>127658592
I know, its just a culmination after months of looking at successful kickstarter/indiegogo/paetron campaigns.
>>127660859
What do you mean by take seriously? Unironically enjoy? Then yes.
>>127660859
There are people who take their FANSERVICE seriously, but unless you want that to be what you're known for, and what people will expect from you, you're better off not doing it. And the Sakura series sales are declining with each new entry in the series, its started getting stale to more people.
>>127642808
best artist in the current scene
>>127662295
Too bad some people think she's tainted forever for having worked on a Sakura game.
>>127652224
It's ded, Jim. Prison lolis also ded.
>>127662338
At least the creepy sekai project guy didn't chain her down in his basement like Wanaca, she may yet redeem herself.
>>127662295
Incorrect.
>a dlsite game got to rank 1 of all time within 2 months
>tfw you make visual novels but can never be as good
>tfw you share the same birthday with him, but you are older
What have I been doing, /evn/?
>>127663003
post work
>>127663618
Why the hell did you think I meant I'm better than her? I meant I like wanaca more.
>>127664015
What a deep...plot that game has.
>>127664015
I think the other anon means you post the work of the artist you think is the best in evn.
>>127664015
2generic4me, I like the other one's linework better
but at least you aren't very wrong
>>127664015
>>127664496
actually nvm
>>127662338
Isn't she doing the art for A Lily Princess?
>>127665589
Read up the quote chain.
What kind of studio logo is this?
>>127666724
a retarded one
that said I still have no idea what to name mine
>>127666724
A fantastic one.
>>127666724
>>127666924
The actual game logo is great too! I personally can't wait to play Noonce bulyou!
>>127667036
It's =No*ne=bul'you
My artist is so moe with their broken english, they even awkwardly called me sir. I wonder if I should bother telling them I'm a woman.
>>127665694
So she's not tainted?
Are you willing to sell out to a publisher /evn/?
>>127662338
>>127670285
No real creative professional who can release a project actually thinks like that. In the creative field it's understood that you usually work on some shitty projects just to make ends meet or to gain practical experience. JJ Abrams worked on "Nightbeast", my brothers who worked on special effects for "Jurassic World" and "Star Wars VII" worked on really shitty TV shows for years at the start of their careers. Adults in business just do not think like this.
>>127669858
Absolutely not, sir!
>>127673465
So the lemmasoft artists who say they won't draw ero because they take their art seriously are full of shit?
>>127673465
You also have to think from the perspective of your customers. If they see "from the artist that brought you sakura X" people are going to expect a titfest.
>>127673646
Not necessarily. It's been talked about before how in Japan artists who do hentai have designed characters for children's shows.
>>127672804
Possibly, but never to sekai project nor steam.
They've both single handedly killed the visual novel scene in the west.
>>127674131
> not steam
> ignoring one of the biggest distribution platforms because muh art
>>127674131
They really haven't.
>>127674131
Steam is just a store. It's the people who make the quick cash-in games that have tainted the medium.
>>127674207
>>127674215
They're pioneers of censorship, they can go fuck themselves. Do you have any idea how long I waited for the little busters ecstasy to come out, only for it to never be released in favor of paying for the all ages version because steam can't possibly handle the concept of sex? It makes me want to kill gabe newell.
>>127674453
oh, you are one of THOSE people. Nevermind, then.
>>127674592
One of the people who want to pay for the original product and not the castrated, think of the children version? Yeah.
>>127674453
Payment processors view porn as high risk and charge ridiculous rates to stores that carry it. That's why Steam won't "officially" host porn games.
And before you mention Kindred Spirits, that doesn't show graphic sex. Though I believe there was a teacher/student relationship in that and really want to see the reactions.
>>127674453
You know the version being localized has the content from Ecstasy excluding the sex, right? Surely you don't want those awfully drawn sex scenes?
>>127674805
No, people who think Steam is the problem when literally nothing is stopping devs from releasing either a patch or the game through a different store.
Also, this is a jvn problem at most, not an evn one.
>>127674453
just don't make actual porn and you're fine
most censorship happens in the translation/localization process, which won't happen for your OELVN
>>127674932
>Surely you don't want those awfully drawn sex scenes?
Yes, I want to be able to fug my waifu. Sue me.
>>127675549
You might not love her anymore after you see the things she can do with her body.
>>127673639
Not full of shit, per se, because this is more about the quality of the project than the content in my opinion. Think about artists like Tosh-- he did a shit ton of hentai, no one holds it against him that I've seen.
Most of the best VN artists in Japan have worked on Ero. Coincidentally, of the top grossing and top rated VNs, around 70-80% have erotic/porn content.
>>127673646
Well you obviously do not use it as your lead/introduction. Art has an advantage in that you can just show pictures. But think about some of the other people who have been successful in the Japanese industry and what they have done in the past. Tanaka Romeo worked on Daughter Maker and Kuro no Toshokan-- but he would never put those in his tagline.
>>127674805
I think that Steam has not proven to be a major problem for evn releases. I plan to release a title on Steam and then release the Directors Cut (with sex scenes / other extras) on MG or another platform. Steam is vital for initial funding.
You have to keep in mind that this scene is not purely "business driven". Even though the best usage of time is to just work on steam appropriate content, many of us have artistic visions that include sexual content. If we get money/success through steam, we're going to go elsewhere as well with a more full version.
Steam is not unique in this regard. I published a Young Adult novel (it sold poorly). However, in order to get published I had to chop a sex scene and a scene for graphic violence. Had the work succeeded I would have released a directors cut. Steam is the same way.
Steam is not going to stop you from getting the releases you want.
>>127674131
Say what you want, but things would have gotten a whole lot worse after the DysfunctionalSystems/Dischan fiasco if not for Sekai. That would have been the thing that set the EVN scene back a few years. But Sekai, whether you condone how they do business or not, has helped nurture and build up a market for EVN that pales in comparison to what it once was. They're taking risks on western devs and making it possible for some to make a living off of making VNs. Sure, maybe Mangagamer would be doing something similar if Sekai weren't around, but they don't have the visibility that SP does, and with SP western devs can siphon an audience from bigger name JVNs like Grisaia. I don't give a shit if you hate Sekai, but saying that they "killed" the VN scene in the west is just ignorant and uninformed.
>>127675625
>after you see the things she can do with her body.
What, having the ability to sit on her back like a confused, embarrassed dead fish? I love her in spite of it.
>>127675738
>Think about artists like Tosh-- he did a shit ton of hentai, no one holds it against him that I've seen.
Tosh ain't a great example because he's drawing sexy fanservice manga. It's barely a step down from his porn, which is why no one complains.
>>127675868
Just to say I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but that wasn't the best person to pick.
>>127675868
I think my VN examples are better. Since most of the highly successful visual novels that are not through Key contain erotic content. It's direct to our industry.
I would say that if you want to do visual novel art and are afraid of doing erotic content-- that you are not a real artist or that you have chosen the wrong medium and are not taking art seriously.
More offensive than the artists who will not write erotic content are those that refuse to depict violence/etc and sex. This means all they are ever going to work on is fluff stories, moege, etc.
so if you want to release on steam you have to cut out all sexual content, or just sex? There aren't any dicks involved if that helps any. Also can you get away with just taking the sexual CG's out and leaving the text description in, or do you have to go the whole shebang and have a fade to black with an ambiguous "we became one"?
>>127676214
it's a really fuzzy line, but I think "no genitalia showing" is a good rule of thumb.
>>127676112
>I would say that if you want to do visual novel art and are afraid of doing erotic content-- that you are not a real artist or that you have chosen the wrong medium and are not taking art seriously.
Oh, come on. Maybe they just don't want to draw porn and aren't "afraid" of it. That doesn't make them not a real artist. There are plenty of highly regarded VNs that don't have sex scenes.
>>127676310
I think I'll just have it as text only then.
>>127676310
It's more like no penetration, really.
>>127676460
so 18+ yuri is good to go? I'll hold you to it if I make it through greenlight only to get removed like that seduce me otome did.
>>127676214
M-rated games are allowed on Steam, so keeping it around that level should work. There can be sex, it just can't be graphic. You can have a patch like Sunrider and the upcoming Highway Blossoms.
>>127676214
>>127676380
If you're not avoiding spoilers for Yurirei here's one of the CGs to show you how explicit it gets, and they don't have to cut it.
http://g.e-hentai.org/s/f15b841192/477216-62
>>127676613
But can I show the V?
>>127676797
Do you see a v in that picture?
>>127675764
>has helped nurture and build up a market for EVN that pales in comparison to what it once was
They made kickstarter look so easy any moron thinks they can do one, even if they have no idea what they're doing, see exogenesis.
>with SP western devs can siphon an audience from bigger name JVNs like Grisaia
Most JVN players think evns suck and are just cheap imitations of JVNs. How can an under 10k evn even hope to compare to something the level of Grisaia? The audiences wouldn't likely be the same.
They didn't kill the vn scene, but they have seemingly no standards for what they publish. Yohjo Simulator is an example of this.
>>127677047
>They made kickstarter look so easy any moron thinks they can do one, even if they have no idea what they're doing, see exogenesis.
Sekai didn't do that. Kickstarter did that. The potato salad guy is more to blame than Sekai.
>>127676551
>make it through greenlight only to get removed like that seduce me otome did
When did this happen? I know it got put on Steam, but I didn't hear about it being removed.
>>127676371
I think my views here are a bit extreme, but I think a lack of willingness to write/draw sex scenes is very limiting and I think most creatives worth their salt do not see sex as this taboo line in the sand that cannot be crossed.
Modern productions that are critically acclaimed and extremely popular contain sex scenes. Actors who cannot do sex scenes are also really limiting for projects. House of Cards, Game of Thrones, American Horror Story-- all of these works would have drastically different character without sex scenes.
This is a personal viewpoint as a writer-- I have disdain for those who cannot maturely approach sex scenes/sexual content.
Granted, I could be totally wrong and maybe audiences do not actually care about it. Maybe sex is not central to the visual novel medium and other artists/writers will take the medium in that direction and succeed with it. That is fine and that is their artistic license.
Still, I cannot imagine Michelangelo refusing to capture the naked form or Stephen King refusing to write a sex scene when plot demands it. Certain types of stories require that kind of content, so I would always see an artist that draws neither sex nor violence as "limited". There is also a difference between pornography (sex or violence as spectacle) and sex/violence as elements of story.
>>127677390
I apologize for the shitkaku link, but:
http://kotaku.com/the-sex-games-that-steam-censors-1680718912
"In 2012, a sex game called Seduce Me was pulled from Steam Greenlight."
>>127677047
Oh, silly me, I named exogenesis which launched before any of Sekai's vn kickstarters. The number of crappy cash grab vn kickstarters on KS really exploded after Sekai started having their successful kickstarters though. People treat it like it's practically a requirement now.
>>127677570
That's a different game.
>>127677823
Oh, well my bad.
>>127677478
there's a big difference between refusing to write about sex and refusing to include actual porn in your vn, though, and most of it has to do with ratings
putting an explicit sex scene in an otherwise PG-13 movie for example is probably not logistically worth bumping it up to an R regardless of your views on the topic
>>127677570
I thought you meant that free evn Seduce Me the Otome was removed. I read about the 2012 incident awhile back.
>>127677478
>Michelangelo refusing to capture the naked form
What kind of retard equates drawing the naked body with illustrating the act of sex?
>>127677478
The opposite could be said that you're limiting yourself by thinking everything needs sex to be good. I think a lot of artists say they won't do 18+ because they don't want to be asked to do hentai games, not because they won't draw nudity ever. I don't think they should be looked down upon for wanting to work in other genres that are closer to their interests.
>>127678409
Also
>Maybe sex is not central to the visual novel medium and other artists/writers will take the medium in that direction and succeed with it.
This leads me to believe you're a newfag when it comes to VNs. How many have you read?
So, I was reading VNsNow's review of WKNTD out of curiosity, and then one of this replies to a comment:
"All of this brings me to the True Ending which, for me, is definitive in why this story is not good. I'm sorry but I cannot disagree more because the True Ending eliminates choice. The only time anyone actually makes a choice to change loyalties is in the True Ending and it is only Jupiter, Venus and Neptune who are clearly offered that choice. After that choice is made, we have no way of knowing who willingly changed and who was forced into it. However, the game makes perfectly clear that three are not above subjugating or killing anyone that defies them. Jupiter flat out says she will make anyone who comes to fight back 'bad' in order to maintain the new social structure. Ergo, the question isn't whether or not people would be more happy 'shedding their former selves' and stop being good as defined by others. The question is whether or not the three protagonists have a right to force anyone to conform to the Godless society they construct at game's end and if they don't conform, kill them?
The answer to that question is NO."
That actually made it vaguely interesting to me. I wonder if there's any chance the author meant to show that people seem to just swing like a pendulum and the oppressed end up just wanting to oppress anyone who disagrees with them. At least, that's what I get from his explanation, I've not played the VN.
I mean, I was thinking of situations like McCarthyism and how people were treated for being "commies" and how now, at least in the US (it's worth pointing out that to some of us in Europe the left in the US just doesn't look like our idea of left) people who might have identified with those commies would very much like to silence anyone who isn't on their side.
Could it be that the True Ending in WKNTD is exploring that kind of idea?Has anyone played it? There was a Dr Who episode that had similar concepts supposedly.
>>127678558
About 60.
Of the top titles on VNDB let's take a look at sexual content. 75% have sexual content. 25% do not.
So I think it's safe to say that sexual content is central to the VN medium (at least for successful Visual Novels). We could look more on a sales numbers approach if you like, but that was the easiest data to pull into excel.
>>127680723
what the fuck are you on, clannad has sex
>>127680912
Are you sure? I don't really remember it. I found the VN sort of insufferable because of the translation quality, but I do not remember sex as part of it.
>>127681105
oh wait nevermind, it was the clannad spin off that had sex
>>127680723
Go back and count how many of those titles have all ages improved versions.
>>127678497
Perhaps so, but I think my commentary is not that things "need sex" it's that it should be on the table if it suits the logic of the story.
I think artists should be looked down on for what they are unable or unwilling to do. Is someone a real artist if all they can draw is female characters aged 12-19? I actually see a lot of people on DeviantArt who can do that amazingly well... but they actually cannot draw men, backgrounds, furniture, or anything other than little girls with fairly similar body types.
There are sprite artists who will only draw young women.
Of course they are still artists-- but as a writer or a project lead, you would have to accept that you're going to need another artist for BGs and your story had better have only little girls unless you want yet another artist to take care of all the male characters.
The worst run-in I had with this is that I needed sprites for 5 characters, 3 female, 2 male. Artist started with concept art for the female lead, which makes sense. Then she skipped the male lead and delivered all of the rest of the female characters concept sketches.
And then I never heard from her again.
Luckily, this was not far enough into the engagement that I felt like I lost anything. I wouldn't call her a scammer, she did deliver work equal to what I paid, but it's pretty clear that she could not draw men. So when I see an artist has limits of any kind, I start to get worried about their capabilities. Art for VNs is art as props, art as tools to tell a story. The more limited the artist, the more limited the story.
My stories tend to feature adult romance, action, and horror elements. So for me when I see "no violence" or "no nudity" or things of that nature, it basically makes them unsuitable to perform work on spec. Which makes them less valuable in my eyes.
>>127680723
I don't dislike ero in vns, but it sometimes feels out of place in story titles. It can mess up the pacing or feel shoehorned in out of nowhere. Releasing all-ages and adult versions for story titles is the best method, since people have the choice of the version they want to play.
>>127681674
Realta Nua created plot issues in Fate/stay night.
>>127682098
And?
>>127682098
little busters ex turned riki into a rapist
>>127681674
But they weren't successful because of the All-Ages Improved Versions. That is not what generated their initial revenue, funding, and success. The All-Ages versions are created to capitalize on established success, not to make it in the first place (except in the case of Key, where the reverse was done after the release of Kanon).
What makes a VN successful initially is what matters. Would Fate have become as big of a deal without the sex scenes? Or Tsukihime for that matter? Would they have actually sold and moved copies initially, to become the monoliths today? We won't ever have an answer to that, but my thoughts are "nope". The part that I found refreshing about Tsukihime and Fate and one of the key things that differentiated them from other stories with romance/harem elements and super powers is the overwhelming conclusive nature of the romance plots (i.e. rather than the infinite blue balls of stories like Bleach, if romance was featured, it was resolved, graphically and irrevocably resolved).
I think that sex is highly central to visual novels. When it isn't, it is often substituted for violence and horror instead (Attorney series is all about murders, Zero Escape series is about death situations, Higurashi/Umineko is all about murders. I am not going to run the numbers but I am betting that 90% of the most successful VNs have plots with either murder/sex as central elements. Probably 60% have both. Those are guesses but the titles are there and you can go down the list and think about it yourself. I am pretty sure I am right on this one.
>>127682213
It cut the sex scenes, but the sex was tied to the plot, so it created issues with what they replaced the scenes with. Rin lost her powers, but at the end was still going to study magic. Sakura became a vampire. These are just some examples.
>>127682346
That's not an improvement because?
>>127682436
I remember watching a youtube interview with some head of a jvn company explaining the state of the current market, in that its so over saturated they only way they can stay alive is by relying on loyal obsessive otaku fans to buy multiple copies upon release, and that when they released their first all ages titles it very well nearly bankrupted them to the point where they had to stop trading for a while.
>>127682436
>Would Fate have become as big of a deal without the sex scenes? Or Tsukihime for that matter?
You must be joking. People hate Nasu's sex scenes. They're only good for comedic value.
The second highest rated VN ever has no erotic material. Sex is not the most important part of VNs. It's in a lot of them, but do you need it to succeed? The answer is 100% "no."
>>127683012
The Rin/Saber scene was good. It was the highlight of the anime adaptation for me.
>>127683012
You have no idea how the Japanese market works if you think this is true. Porn is absolutely critical for most VN devs in the Japanese market. All ages stuff is only starting to become really viable over there.
>>127683180
I had no idea we were developing games for the Japanese market.
>>127683318
Sakura Samurai in Bikinis will launch with English and Japanese dialog.
>>127683519
>Sakura samurai
you got me there you cheeky cunt
>>127684687
If you're the Winged Cloud developer, make more yuri games. I can overlook how crappily they're written if it's yuri. That's the real reason so many people said that Sakura Fantasy was better than the other games.
>>127683318
You were talking about Fate and how it got popular?
>>127687303
Among English readers. And even in Japan, Nasu's sex scenes are viewed as a joke.
>>127688043
>And even in Japan, Nasu's sex scenes are viewed as a joke.
[citation needed]
How does /evn/ feel about character busts that face one another as opposed to facing the viewer?
My MC isn't a self-insert role and has poses and expressions to show, so I feel like it's a good idea, but asymmetrical characters are either going to double my workload or bother my OCD by flipping them
>>127688607
Surely they are only critiquing the poignancy and importance of the scenes by constantly making fun of them.
>>127681789
Did that artist have samples of male sprites in their portfolio? Just curious what made you choose them. I think you're looking in the wrong place, choosing the wrong artists, or your budget is limited to artists who don't have a wide range of skills. There are artists who will do violence and nudity. Is your complaint that there aren't enough who will, or you can't find them?
>>127688819
I think they are actually a great thing, but they have the flaw that you mentioned already. That is, unless you make it so that certain characters always appear on one side, which could be awkward for dialog scenes, since all would need to be framed with that limitation in mind.
>>127689058
Well, people like to front on the internet and fit in with the culture. People are not going to admit that they were jack-hammering or oiling their gates or what-have-you.
On a more productive topic, I am going to do a market analysis of English Visual Novels and see if I can get any interesting data. I am using this to create something that will sell in the west.
My biggest worry is that one thing is already prominent-- the most successful titles in the west have game elements. And I do not particularly want to make a visual novel with game elements, or rather, my skills are not up to the task so this would involve either hiring talent, getting a partner, or making something mediocre.
>>127675764
>They're taking risks on western devs and making it possible for some to make a living off of making VNs.
There were already western devs making a living off VNs.
With the possible exception of HRP which Sekai is apparently giving some funding too, pretty much everyone else who's released a game via Sekai could have done it themselves and gotten more money.
>I don't give a shit if you hate Sekai, but saying that they "killed" the VN scene in the west is just ignorant and uninformed.
Well, you're right about that, they didn't kill anything. They're just not saving anything either.
>>127690412
>I am going to do a market analysis of English Visual Novels and see if I can get any interesting data. I am using this to create something that will sell in the west.
Clearly what you need to do is make a game that combines Long Live The Queen and HuniePop.
>>127690834
We've actually given funding to many projects besides my own. It's up to the developers whether or not they want to share who they are - I'm not going to.
>>127689947
I think my frustration was born from trying to find the right combination. A style I like, character designs/ideas I like, the ability to draw many things, the ability to execute on a schedule, and a willingness to do nudity and violence if a story demands it. I would hate to find someone amazing, have them do work, and then be surprised when I ask for something they said they could do and then I get deafening silence.
It seems like there are a lot of artists who can check a few boxes of what I would require but not all of the boxes. This problem was something I fixed by finding an artist in my circle of friends who is actually extremely talented. But searching for one to hire I kept running into problems in one area or another. The "flighty" artist is a stereotype based in truth. Not because all artists are flighty, but because the ones available on most websites are not professionals but amateurs. I do not mean that their skills are lacking, but I mean that they tend to do art on a hobby schedule or as something out of passion, with a desire to do it for money, but without the work ethic to make that an actual reality.
From what I have seen this does not apply to just artists but rather everyone in this field, take this guy >127568648 it's writers and everyone else too. Flakiness is sort of par for the course.
>>127691209
Okay, fair enough. Sorry.
Should a first time kickstarter goal around $8,000? The game's already done, but I want to promote it more and get my investment back.
>>127696541
I think you misunderstand the concept of Kickstarter.
>>127696671
As long as KS gets their share they don't give a crap about what I do as long as I deliver what I promise.
Kickstarter is supposed to be not for profit, but companies sell the games they fund through it. And Root Double is basically done, otherwise how could an over 50 hour long vn be ready by March when it just launched?
>>127696541
Seems reasonable, but won't the rewards be a lot of extra work?
>>127697881
We have a local print shop that does high school merchandise. I can get a decent rate on small orders of physical items.
>>127697379
Not you, but people WILL care. And in such a niche, getting a bad rep will hunt you for a while.
>>127697379
>Kickstarter is supposed to be not for profit, but companies sell the games they fund through it.
Yeah, you've really misunderstood.
>>127700221
My vn only cost $3k to make and my KS goal was twice that. I made enough to make my next vn without the first vn having even launched yet.
I'm going to kickstart a vn and delay it so I can work on another vn. Who am I?
Now for something completely different, Black Closet is a finalist for Excellence in Narrative in the IGF.
>>127701827
What is IGF?
>>127701967
Indie games festival
http://igf.com/2016/01/2016_independent_games_festiva_1.html
>>127701967
Intergalactic Federation
>>127701470
I went to go check the spreadsheet for games that fit your description for fun.
>>127702462
Have you figured out which one it is yet?
>>127702462
To give you another hint, my exact goal was $6,500.
>>127702714
There are two that are $6000 and are currently unreleased and one $6500.
>>127703015
I guess it's A Beautiful World then.
is tyrano builder worth it?
>>127703169
Man, I hope it is because it would be hilarious for the dev to be a scammer besides being a dick.
>>127704319
Are you a retarded twelve year old that's too lazy to learn rudimentary python?
>>127704412
Yes
>>127704550
Then tyranobuilder is the product for you!
>>127704412
Yes
>>127704362
Remember to screencap any negative Steam reviews and forum comments, because they're bound to disappear.
>>127704612
With some stability patches and added customization it could rival ren'py.
>>127704863
>If it wasn't bad, it could be good
Yes, that's how things usually work.
>>127705664
>If it wasn't bad, it could be good
This is how I feel about incomplete episodic games.
>>127704362
Fuck you. That article was meant to assassinate my kickstarter without giving it a chance. The author should've tried to contact me about the demo not working instead of writing that poorly researched article.
>>127706419
> make a shitty KS campaign
> despite the fact that they are dozens of examples of how to do it right
> get angry when someone points it out
stay mad
>>127706617
Whatever happened to beauty in simplicity? Those other examples looked bloated and gaudy.
>>127706784
There weren't even screenshots.
>>127706617
>responding to an obvious troll
>>127706890
The art is being reworked. And it's the same as giving out spoilers.
>>127706617
I went back and reread those comments. They're still hilarious.
>>127706906
Given what the cliquist comments looked like, can you really be sure?
I think I'm doing too many CGs. Is there such a thing?
>>127706419
>assassinate my kickstarter
not sure if troll.
>>127708408
If you don't have a limit on your time/money budget, there is no such thing.
>>127709037
Not trying to be pedantic, genuinely curious: Do you think a VN that's just a shit ton of CG's, and no sprites at all, would be any good? It'd be like a picture book with music, I guess.
so huniepop now shows on my profile and I have two coworkers added on steam
I'm not going to hear the end of this
>>127701827
Too bad it's not actually an EVN.
>>127709327
Say you bought it by accident or it was a gift.
>>127709710
Hanako is known for vns/dating sims though, so I think it's relevant anyway.
>>127696541
That's a reasonable goal, but make sure you're adding things that wouldn't otherwise exist, or people will feel cheated.
If you have cool physical rewards on some of the tiers and things that you wouldn't normally be able to distribute with the game, it's not really cheating.
(Heck, even if you take the funds raised and add a single bonus CG to the game it's not REALLY cheating, but interesting limited-edition rewards make the whole thing feel more special.)
