How are humans that *important* when their largest colony on Terra Nova only has 4.4. million people? Why is it that you see so many humans on the Citadel? Humans only discovered the existence of an intergalactic society about 30 years ago from when the game begins.
So why is the Alliance considered a "sleeping giant", when its population is tiny? Why are they being considered for a seat on the Council?
This universe makes no sense.
>>345002990
Cus power fantasy
Because humanity.
>>345002990
We're the party race. Everybody loves us.
>>345002990
Because they fought the Turians, the most powerful military in the galaxy, to a standstill
>>345003503
>Because they fought the Turians, the most powerful military in the galaxy
That's an overstatement. They literally beat back a policing force...
Because it's a game made by humans. Of course humans are gonna get jerked off in the fantasy setting. It's not like there are any real Turians, Salarians, Asari, Krogan, Hanar, Elcor, etc to call Bioware out on it.
>>345003592
They took a planet from them.
Fact: The Council took special interest in humans right off the bat because they were able to go toe to toe with the Turians
>>345002990
let's see your shitty turian fleet be remotely as good at killing a reaper as the alliance one was
There's a large inconsistency because the Mass Effect codex - as well as the planet information one obtains from scanning - very much gives the impression that human populations outside of Earth are very small.
However, the writers of ME2 realized this was a problem if they were going to make humans more "important" and "relevant" in the story, so they changed the population of some colonies to be much higher. However, high colonial populations make no sense, since humans only begun their colonization efforts some 50 years ago, and only were integrated into the galactic community less than 35 years ago by the time of the game.
Something that also bothered me was how there can be 2 million humans living on the Citadel by the time the game begins. This sounds hard to believe.
>>345002990
Because Earth has 11.4 billion people on it.
The Asari homeworld only has 5 billion, the Turians 6 billion, the Quarians 300 thousand, the Krogan 2 billion, and even the Salarians which were the most prevalent only have 10 billion.
So right off the bat, there's more humans than any other species. More than a couple of them combined, even.
Further, humanity progresses way faster than every other race. What most of the other Citadel races took centuries or millennia to accomplish took Humanity decades.
Three thousand years before the start of the game, the Asari were at where they are now technologically. We went from wielding iron swords to commanding the strongest galactic military since the Protheans in that time.
>>345002990
Humans are the youngest space faring race and have advanced quickest in technology, biotics and numbers.
They're not the strongest, but the citadel recognizes the potential for the future of humanity.
>>345002990
Buttmad turian detected.
Go eat some cholocate, faggot. Oh wait. You can't.
Consider that Illium - an asari colony that is not officially even a part of asari space - has a population of 89 million.
Now remember that canonically, Terra Nova is the largest colony of the Human Alliance. It only has a population of 4 million, and this after extensive Alliance-funded colonization and incentives. Fair to say that humans are vastly outnumbered by every other species.
>>345004248
>>345004425
Seems like the other races should be treating humans as they treated Krogans then rather than sucking humanity's dick.
>>345002990
Because Bioware
ITT: People just realizing that Bioware sucks at writing
>>345004248
Which is bullshit because average of 2 billion spread out over 50 worlds is still 100billion people
Humanity have a single overpopulated homeworld and some sparsely populated colonies while other species have time to colonize and dig in resulting in an overall larger population.
We're literal space poo in loo from the point of view of other Citadel species. Complete with Humanity will be developed species in 30 years
>>345002990
Normies can't relate to an alien race.
>>345004646
Except the humans aren't a race of near-mindless warriors like the Krogan. Human scientists are better than even Salarian ones.
So I'm sure the last thing the Council wanted to do is challenge human scientists to see who could engineer a genetic plague to wipe out who first.
>>345004248
That's just the homeworlds, though. We don't know the exact number of colonies each species has, or the number of people on those colonies.
Considering the time between the asari discovering spaceflight and the date the games take place in, they could have hundreds of worlds, each with hundres of millions of inhabitants. The turians, too.
The turians even had an interstellar civil war.
>>345002990
Because Bioware was too stupid to pull off Babylon 5's barely relevant humans.
>>345004827
What non-Homeworld planets do you think have billions in population?
>>345002990
Because in-universe Humans are unnaturally good at fucking everything to the point where it literally frightens the other races.
Turians had ME tech for ages before the war between Turians and Humans began and Humans fucking won. As you say Humans only really discovered Galactic society about 30 years ago but we're already at the forefront of civilian and military technology, biotic research and advancement, galactic diplomacy, trade, etc.
Humans also have a reputation for pragmatism;
"When you want a problem shot call a Turian. When you want a problem talked at call an Asari. When you want a new problem call a Salarian. When you want a problem fixed call a Human."
>>345004248
The trading post backwater of Illium has 84 million people on it. Estimating the older races based just on their capital world pops is stupid.
>>345005124
>humans invented both space carriers and medi-gel
Bioware, pls stop.
I always hated it when people shit talk humanity. We're the best goddamn animals to come off this mud ball.
We also have insane stamina and endurance. We're soft but we last a long time. We're the long distance runners of the animal kingdom after all.
Party race.
>>345002990
The game is made for a human audience, and we like to be flattered.
irl, the geth would dominate everything except for the reapers. There's no beating machines except with more advanced machines. Biologicals are inherently inferior and out of the running immediately the moment intelligent machines are created.
Humans need food. They need air and water. They need to spend nearly half their time unconscious. They need to shit, they can die from a modest fall if they land wrong, and if you kill one it takes ~18 years to replace it. Millions of robots can be manufactured in that amount of time.
It's not even close to balance. It's baby vs. rhino. Puppy versus steamroller. Like if there were to be a war between humanity and frogs or something.
>>345002990
Because Bioware was too fucking lazy to create alien models. Also humans have to be "special snow flakes" to keep all the normies happy.
>>345005432
The only real advantage of a machine race is that they have 100% knowledge of how to edit themselves and can evolve at a break neck race. If a biological society reached the same knowledge of themselves it would be the same with self evolution
>>345005257
>backwater
Yeah, try again. Illium is the major trade planet between the Asari Republic and the Terminus Systems. It's the Constantinople of the Asaris. I don't actually remember a larger non-Homeworld planet for them.
>>345005432
>Humans need food. They need air and water. They need to spend nearly half their time unconscious. They need to shit, they can die from a modest fall if they land wrong, and if you kill one it takes ~18 years to replace it.
All things we can overcome with science.
We didn't evolve claws and teeth to fight with. We evolved intelligent brains. We're the problem solvers, the tool users, the innovators.
>>345002990
Because it's a game made by Bioware, and it's rige with inconstancies. wtf do you think?
>>345002990
Because fuck you, thats why.
Its science fiction. Shit doesnt have to make sense.
>>345005672
>blah blah blah we're so great because X Y Z
Result: Killed by machine
>>345005635
Illium isn't even in asari space. It's not even an official asari planet. And yet it has a population of 89 million.
Compare to humanity's largest colonies on Elysium or Terra Nova or Eden Prime - these only have a population of 4 million. Most human colonies you encounter have populations in the thousands.
Pretty sure humanity is outnumbered.
>>345005432
>implying
You assume that you can program limitless creativity and ingenuity. That every facet of intelligence is directly understandable and processable. And with that presumption you assume that they have limitless resources to endlessly self-replicate and upgrade.
The Geth don't exist inside a vacuum. For a bunch of slave robots for how far they've managed to stretch that AI is pretty fucking impressive at all.
>>345002990
cause we are technologically advanced considering we just discovered 'the mass effect'
and personally I think the asari wanted our dna, if you take my meaning.
>>345005432
The most sophisticated machine would be a biological organism.
>>345005432
While all of this is embarrassingly true, no sci-fi ever does a good enough job depicting what human advancement would look like even 100 years into the future.
We're on the verge of producing honest to god genetically modified super soldiers, being able to regenerate limbs, organs, CNS tissue, fusing with mechanical and electrical augments that enhance vision, immune function, have exoskeletal systems that further enhance speed, strength, reaction times. Every single human being could be a Master Chief with telekinesis.
40K's Spess Mehreens aren't too far removed from a possible reality. If we tailored a developing embryo with the geneseed instead of doing it to an adult we'd be able to make it happen.
>>345005880
Why? Because on the largest Asari planet we're aware of, they have less than 100 million people? Combined with their homeworld, that still puts them at less than half what humanity has on its homeworld alone.
>>345005963
>You assume that you can program limitless creativity and ingenuity.
No I don't.
>That every facet of intelligence is directly understandable and processable.
No I don't.
>And with that presumption you assume that they have limitless resources to endlessly self-replicate and upgrade.
No, just faster than we can kill 'em.
Machines don't need to be conscious or even particularly "smart" to win. They just need to be able to self-replicate and identify/kill human targets.
>>345006172
>No, just faster than we can kill 'em.
Why would you assume that?
>>345006020
Hey that's a reall good point, I bet it will save you from-
>Result: killed by machine
dangit
>>345003592
If you read the codex you'd know that the turians thought it was our entire fleet fighting them, but they were BTFO after the actual main fleet came to wreck their shit.
I'd say the only reason the council took interest so much is because if they didn't give us a special snowflake pass into the alliance, we'd have destroyed a very good portion of the turian fleet.
>>345002990
Humans are an effective tool for the Citadel because they're rapidly colonizing every planet on the Citadel borders, expanding its control. Every one mentioned in the game seems to go to shit, but that doesn't really matter to the Citadel because they get to keep the expanded territory while humanity's the one shoveling colonists into the furnace.
>>345006298
Why do you think it takes 18 years to make one robot?
>>345005124
>>345005379
This is what I hate the most about Mass Effect's brand of humanity fuck yeah.
Look at Halo lore before 343. We got our shit kicked out of us. Hundreds of world burned to ashes, yet we still spit in the eye of the covenant and fought tooth and nail until the Elites began to respect our tenacity. They admire us for our courage and cunning in battle.
That's humanity fuck yeah done right. We earned it through blood, tears and sacrifice.
Then came Mass Effect's humanity. Compare to most species, the council practically bend their asses over and handed us everything it took most species centuries to earn within a decade on a silver platter, yet we complain it's not made out of gold. It's like a whiny kid who's speshual just because.
>>345006428
Why do you think it takes 18 years to kill a robot?
>>345006510
Humans and robots can both be killed quickly but they cannot be *replaced* at the same rate.
>>345006479
>self-hating faggot
Is this the science fiction equivalent of white guilt?
>>345006094
All humanity has IS the homeworld.
Its colonial and extra-solar population is irrelevant. There are 12 billion humans living on Earth at the beginning of ME. Factor in all the colonials (people not living on Earth or on Sol), you - at most - have a population of 13 billion.
>>345006382
It's a patrol fleet. Casualty on both sides are around 600 with slightly higher on the turian's side since they're caught with their pants down. That's like a fraction of a fraction of both side's military.
>>345005432
>implying frogs wouldnt beat the shit out of humanity easily
Fucking REEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>345005432
4.3 humans are born every second
That's 135 604 800 per year.
>>345006618
It's not self-hate. It's the fact that it breaks the immersion by being so ridiculous.
>>345006479
Humans are apex predators, and no matter how far we advance we'll always have our cave man instincts for killing, and cumming in everything that our cocks fit in. We're the very best that mother nature could spit out, and we've been fucking shit up since day 1. Literally 100,000+ year pedigree of being motherfuckers.
We split the atom, turned war into the most profitable industry on our planet, and every single day think up new tools to kill one another. We are ruthlessness incarnate.
>>345006604
Right, but humans produce biologically. Robots are constructed and require materials. Since the Geth aren't allowed in Council space and no one is trading with them, their capacity to reproduce is shunted. And for as many Geth as there are, they'd still have to kill hundreds to one to break even against the Council.
And that's just assuming that Geth are equal. Complete lack of access to Biotics and biological engineering is costly too. A Vorcha blows off a Geth's flashlight head and the Geth dies. The Geth blows off the Vorcha's head, and a new one sprouts.
>>345006618
>implying being space wellfare niggers is HFY
>>345006901
Think about how much faster the number of machines could grow over that same period when it takes at most a few hours to build one.
I wonder if Christcucks in 2180 are opposed to interspecies relations.
>>345006920
So they fuck off into deep space and mine astroids for metal. Raw metals + sunlight = more geth.
Sure, biological life has magic super powers in the Mass Effect universe. They have to in order to compete with machines. In real life, magical super powers don't exist, but robotics does.
>>345006906
Why? So many races are the best at different thing, why does humanity excelling in some areas bother you?
Does it trigger you that Krogan live centuries and Asari live millennia? How about the Rachni's ability to exist in the vacuum of space and travel at FTL organically? The fact that the Vorcha have situational evolution?
No. Just humans.
>>345005672
>We didn't evolve claws and teeth to fight with. We evolved intelligent brains.
Actually, that's wrong. Higher thinking and tool use certainly contributed to our success at hunting and absolutely was essential to the creation of farming and industry (which is why we are the dominant species), but in terms of hunting and beating other animals our brains aren't our weapon.
As another anon said, we have unnatural endurance and stamina. While most animals relied on speed and savagery to hunt their prey we simply followed them and waited, knowing that we would be still be awake and ready to capitalize on weakness long after the animal became exhausted, tired, dehydrated, and starved.
>>345007273
Assuming that the costs of FTL travel, planet surveying and mining all manage to break even AND produce a profit when they're pushed out of all the rich core worlds. It's like trying to get rich dumpster diving.
>>345007358
That's really weird too considering our brains are such calorie hogs.
>>345007129
>when it takes at most a few hours to build one
Ok, let's take comparatively simple machine.
91.5 million motor vehicles were produced globally in 2015.
This is with an entire world wide industry.
>>345006667
That's still more than either Asari or Turians, not to mention that technically if humans wanted, they could multiply their productive population by two every 25 years or so.
Seriously why not outlaw pregnancy prevention on colonies.
Be completely honest with me, /v/:Would you bf a turian?
>>345006479
Did you even play either of those games?
In Mass Effect, humans were hated everywhere. We managed to beat the shit out of the Turians despite a massive technological difference, in a war that wasn't our fault. The Council had to DIE, and humanity had to force a human member on to the new Council, which still tried to fuck with humanity and not listen. Through hard work, sacrifice, compromise and guts, humanity managed to save the entire universe, even those that tried to kill us.
Halo was about how humanity made a god-damned super soldier, before we even had alien technology, that single-handedly won a war and beat not just one alien race, but an alliance of them. Humans in the Halo universe were just gifted for no reason. If they hadn't been retarded, they wouldn't have lost most of their colonies either. They didn't earn shit from "blood, tears and sacrifice". They huddled together in a corner of Earth going "Please save us from the aliens, Master Chief!".
>>345007452
What profits do you mean? What economy do the geth have? They are machines.
They do not need "core worlds". They do not need planets to live on, period. They are as at home in space as fish are in water. Space is a machine's ideal habitat.
Try to imagine something like Skynet escaping into space instead of staying on Earth to fight humanity.
Once it makes it to the asteroid belt it has essentially unlimited metals to replicate with. When it comes back in maybe a century or so it would be unfathomably advanced, powerful and numerous.
>>345007310
It's not the fact that we excel in some areas, it's the fact that we suddenly became giants overnight even if everyone else have hundreds of years of head start in terms of economy and population alone. I mean, if it takes place like hundreds of years after first contact it's believable the kind of influence humanity have on the galaxy but 30 years of constant is just too little.
>>345005635
Illium is a backwater that's tolerated because of it's small nature. No frontier outpost small enough for plausible deniability (that's not an Asari planet wink wink) will ever be the equivalent of Constantinople
>>345007248
ashley whats-her-face is a christcuck and she dislikes aliens
>>345007473
That's not constrained by technology but by economics. That many were produced because that's what they projected they would be able to sell.
You are very dumb. This is another reason machines would easily kill you.
>>345007709
By profit I didn't mean literal currency. I mean that exploring the vastness of space itself requires fuel and resources. Surveying planets requires resources. Mining requires resources. You might not find enough usable resources in an excursion to make back what was used in the attempt, let alone take back an excess to go creating more Geth with.
That's the problem with the whole AI theory. They don't exist in a vacuum with infinite resources where they endlessly self-duplicate. The Geth have to come from somewhere and they're not allowed anywhere. The Quarian describe a similar situation with themselves, constantly trying to just break even on their flotilla, and even they have the benefit of being able to trade with the Council races.
>>345004168
>be humans on citadel
>need to rapidly expand population
>have shitload of advanced technology
>grow humans in artificial wombs as well as offer incentives for women to bear children
It works
>>345007730
Just like the Krogan did. And the Rachni. And the Turian. Every other century in the Milky Way galaxy there's another race uncovered that becomes the next giant that gives the Council pause. You're only bitching about humanity though.
>>345007829
>You are very dumb. This is another reason machines would easily kill you.
Are you 12 or something?
I provided you with actual realistic numbers, you merely repeated yourself about how your magical robots will be superior to everything ever. It's like talking to an embodiment of anime storytelling.
>>345008140
Stop arguing with the self hating Bernie supporter. You'll never get through to him.
>>345008140
The Krogan and Turians had to distinguish themselves by fighting long wars that devastated their colonies and inner worlds.
Humans didn't do anything besides beat back a patrol and call it "victory".
>>345007739
>small nature
>backwater
Where do you guys keep getting this?
I might be mistaken and if I am, correct me, but is there a single larger Asari planet outside their Homeworld in the entire series? I don't remember one larger. And every description I remember reading of Illium has it painted as a major trade hub, hell, THE major trade hub with the Terminus Systems.
So... is there a bigger Asari planet? If so, which? Is there a larger trade planet? If so, who?
Because the writing shits the bed 5 hours into the first game but people insist that it's a masterpiece because they don't know how to find plotholes so big they can fit their head through them.
>Shepard is a reaper which means he doesn't answer to anyone except the council
>Except when it becomes convenient to create drama and create a shitton of filler to pad out game time, at which point Shepard now answers to everyone except the council
>>345007129
>machines are hard-capped by how much metal they can get
>biological life is hard-capped by how much fucking energy of virtually any type they can inject into the food chain
wew lad
>>345007358
And we knew that because of our brains. You cannot find a reputable scientist anywhere that would say anything over than "Humanity's best weapon has always been it's brain."
Humans have never won anything in a physical contest with animals. Our endurance means nothing, because everything else is either 3-5 times faster, or strong enough to kill us in one swipe. We don;t have the hearing, sight or sense of smell to follow or stalk them. That leaves us with tracking footprints, traps, and tools, all of which require basic thinking abilities to use. If humans didn't have these things, hunting would have been impossible for them. From the smallest rabbit to the largest elephant, there would be no way to kill an animal just by running after it with whatever you had at hand. A human would never capture any animal like that.
>>345007456
Our brains evolved after we were already apex predators. Remember, modern humans are just the only surviving members of an entire genus of primates that hunted via exhausting their prey.
>>345008003
>I mean that exploring the vastness of space itself requires fuel and resources.
That is a much bigger problem for biological life than machines. If you are a machine you can just turn off while coasting on momentum. A thousand years is nothing.
Or you can adjust your processing speed to change your perception of how time passes. 500 years could be a few days to you.
>Surveying planets requires resources. Mining requires resources. You might not find enough usable resources in an excursion to make back what was used in the attempt, let alone take back an excess to go creating more Geth with.
You seem to be imagining sending spaceships and equipment like humans would. Machines do not need to do that. They only need to send a seed: A single self-replicating machine, sometimes called a von neumann universal constructor.
It can make loads of these and send them out in every direction like spores. Very small waste for the ones that never find anything of value but it isn't as if asteroids are rare.
Again this is also a problem for biologicals but much moreso.
>That's the problem with the whole AI theory. They don't exist in a vacuum with infinite resources where they endlessly self-duplicate.
Neither do biologicals. If anything it's a worse problem for biologicals because of how much more difficult it is to make food than it is to find metals.
You don't need to agree with me. Machines would still win. You could even keep disputing it as it is happening but it would still happen nevertheless.
>>345008442
>Humans have never won anything in a physical contest with animals.
I measure dicks with my cat all the time.
Little faggot always loses.
>>345008140
Turians have been in space for centuries before first contact. They even have a Unification wars beforehand after the colonies start becoming self sufficient and going rogue.
Krogans breed just as fast as rabbits and are practically immortal unless killed. They can close the population gap faster humanity could.
>>345008284
>remember reading of Illium has it painted as a major trade hub, hell, THE major trade hub with the Terminus Systems.
That's not much considering the Terminus Systems are the frontier i.e. uncivilized space
>>345007709
>Space is a machine's ideal habitat.
That is absolutely false. A lack of gravity makes maintaining machinery a fucking nightmare, the tiniest amounts of conductive particles can float right onto the circuits of delicate equipment and fry everything.
>>345008161
>I provided you with actual realistic numbers, you merely repeated yourself about how your magical robots will be superior to everything ever.
No I didn't. I pointed out that the numbers you supplied are constrained by economics, i.e. worldwide demand for automobiles, not by technological limitations to the rate of production.
You have ignored this point because it destroys your whole argument. Probably you will ignore it again.
>>345002990
The harbinger has your answers
>“Quarian; considered due to cybernetic augmentation, weakened immune system too debilitating.”
>“Drell; useless, insufficient numbers.”
>“Asari; reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness.”
>“Salarian; insufficient lifespan, fragile genetic structure.”
>“Human; viable possibility, impressive genetic malleability.”
>“Geth; an annoyance, limited utility.”
>“Krogan; sterilised race, potential wasted.”
>“Turian; you are considered...too primitive.
>“Human; viable possibility, aggression factor useful if controlled.”
>“Human; viable possibility, impressive technical potential.”
>“Human; viable possibility, if emotional drives are subjugated.”
>“Human; viable possibility, great biotic potential.”
>>345008409
>>biological life is hard-capped by ability to produce food, which is a much more logistically complex process than mining
ftfy
>>345007496
>That's still more than either Asari or Turians
We know the Turians have been in space since at least 700 AD and have multiple colonies (unification war). There's no fucking way that Turian population growth is so low that even with a 1480 year headstart on us they have less population than humans.
>>345008442
>Humans have never won anything in a physical contest with animals.
Can someone explain to me where people like this poster are being educated?
>>345008442
>Our endurance means nothing, because everything else is either 3-5 times faster
Stopped reading here. You literally are responding to a post telling you why that's wrong.
You're retarded.
>>345007584
>gifted for no reason
Now if we ignore Master Sue, technology in Halo isn't that farfetched. We are already pretty far into genetic research, even if it's just trial and error at this point, the only thing stopping us is immorality of pursuing genetical research in a practical way. We have railguns, we have mobile nuclear power sources, we have aircraft capable of low orbit flight, we have cybernetic prosthetics, and we already have simulated neural networks, I wouldn't be surprised if Google didn't come up with somethings in the next 10-20 years being the Ivy league tryhard faggots that they are. Really the only thing that I don't see happening until 2500 is FTL.
>>345008637
Then why have we sent many times more machines into space than humans? For funsies? Or because it is vastly more expensive, difficult and complex to support biological life in space than machines?
>>345008735
>which is an infinitely more extensible process than mining
ftfy
>>345008853
Because no one gives a fuck if a machine dies for science. They're worthless.
>>345005432
This is why the krogan were considered so dangerous. They reproduce like rabbits. Also I take it they hit adulthood fairly quickly.
>>345006815
>have inferior technology
>despite this, casualties on both sides are about even
That's why they got the special snowflake treatment
>>345008886
??? No it isn't. You can only farm edible crops under very specific, difficult to create conditions. Metals can be found in any asteroid or planetoid.
>>345008853
Finding suicidal mentally stable people is hard.
>>345008536
>That is a much bigger problem for biological life than machines. If you are a machine you can just turn off while coasting on momentum. A thousand years is nothing.
But for biological lifeforms, we have the entire resource-rich galaxy. We're not shunted off into the nothingness of dead space, preying on the odd asteroid that happens by.
Further, you're not going to shut yourself off while you're still actively in a war with the Creators. When any Council race that spots you is liable to open fire at first sight.
>You seem to be imagining sending spaceships and equipment like humans would. Machines do not need to do that. They only need to send a seed: A single self-replicating machine, sometimes called a von neumann universal constructor.
Nothing in the Geth technological lore suggests that this is the case. In fact, their technology seems to suggest that they have to send individual Geth to accomplish tasks that a human would be able to. It wasn't remotely controlled automated robots sticking people up on Reaper poles in that first mission, it was individual Geth.
>Neither do biologicals. If anything it's a worse problem for biologicals because of how much more difficult it is to make food than it is to find metals.
Except again, biologicals have all the resources. The machines have virtually none. You keep talking about them finding asteroid belts as though every hunk of rock in space is filled to the brim with Element Zero, Palladium, Iridium, etc. And it's just not the case.
>You don't need to agree with me. Machines would still win. You could even keep disputing it as it is happening but it would still happen nevertheless.
Well, yeah. You've given them technology they don't possess and handwaved every technical limitation they're facing to make your argument work.
I want to fuck an Asari.
>>345008536
>If you are a machine you can just turn off while coasting on momentum. A thousand years is nothing.
Rust. Collisions. Degradation. The effects of unshielded stellar radiation. There are plenty of things that require maintenance (and therefore power and therefore resources) on such a voyage.
>machines only need to send a self-replicating machine!
You are really stuck on the self-replicating thing, huh? Just because resources exist doesn't mean they are available, or that they are usable in their current state. I'm sorry but this isn't a cartoon, Justice League's Dark Star isn't a real thing.
>>345008069
>offer incentives for women to bear children
what kind of incentives
IIRC because no other race advanced their technology so fast in so little time. Took a couple of centuries for what the other race took thousands of years
>>345008620
Don't see anything refuting me though.
>>345008536
Literally one acronym, robo-cuck.
EMP.
>>345008853
>Then why have we sent many times more machines into space than humans?
Because machines don't have human lives that could be lost due to a single miscalculation, you massive twat.
Further you are arguing that space is the "IDEAL" environment for robotics, not if it's better for robots than humans. Space isn't the ideal environment for most anything.
>>345002990
Because humans are good for cheap labor, we are the Mexicans of Mass Effect
>>345009029
>you can only farm edible crop under very specific, difficult to create conditions
Crops that your spoiled ass considers edible are a small fraction of what is actually edible. Man's infinite army will live on vast stocks of algea.
>>345009297
>electromagnetic meme pulse
>>345008161
I'm going to agree with him.
You are very dumb. Why? Because you compared the global output of one type of machine in 2015, with the theoretical maximum output of a future robotic civilization attempting to mass replicate.
>>345009151
Money of course, legalizing prostitution and offering to buy out any spawn would do it.
>>345008706
What about those things on Omega, the Vorcha or whatever? They're like smaller Krogan.
>>345005432
OP, watch it from the Alien PoV
>>345002990
Short answer, because humans are fucking beast in the mass effect universe. They can specialize in a wide variety of abilities and combat techniques mimicing a lot of what makes the other races "special".
Don't like it? Oh well.
>>345009448
>>345008650
You can agree with yourself all you want, it's all just magical fairy tales you're talking about.
>>345009398
>If I call it a meme he'll forget about the fact that any nuke can and will fry every electrical device in its radius
Idiot.
>>345009115
>But for biological lifeforms, we have the entire resource-rich galaxy.
No you don't. Machines can spread out and colonize all that much faster because they reproduce faster and don't have as demanding logistical needs.
>We're not shunted off into the nothingness of dead space, preying on the odd asteroid that happens by.
Find a star system with asteroids, begin consuming asteroids, rinse repat until numbers are sufficient to exterminate opposition
>It wasn't remotely controlled automated robots sticking people up on Reaper poles in that first mission, it was individual Geth.
Realistically machines would not operate that way.
>Except again, biologicals have all the resources.
Until they are killed by machines. Then the machines have those resources.
>You keep talking about them finding asteroid belts as though every hunk of rock in space is filled to the brim with Element Zero, Palladium, Iridium, etc. And it's just not the case.
Then they design variants which don't need those metals.
>Well, yeah. You've given them technology they don't possess and handwaved every technical limitation they're facing to make your argument work.
I'm talking about a realistic scenario where intelligent self-replicating, self-improving machines have escaped into space.
The ME universe puts them at an unrealistic disadvantage precisely because otherwise it would be impossible for biologicals to compete.
It won't turn out that way irl. If we lose containment of machine intelligence and it escapes into space, whether we live or die will be its decision to make some time down the road.
This is not even touching the fact that machines do not have to remain human sized. They have total control over their form factor and could simply become to us as you are to an amoeba.
>>345009485
Harbinger only talks about Shepard's crew.
>>345008290
>shephard is a reaper
kek
Are humans the best biotics, canonically?
You read about everyone else, they seem to be extremely rare.
No wonder humanity kicks ass, if it commands a large force of people who can fuck shit up with their minds.
>>345009297
If my satellite phone can be hardened against an EMP, then I'm sure a killer robot can be, also.
>>345009671
>memes
>>345007580
You already know the answer anon
>>345008290
>Shepard is a reaper
>>345009669
>If I get the last word, it means I win the internet argument.
>>345009749
Every single Asari has biotics.
>>345009669
>>345008650
Look, the concept of a nanoscopic molecular constructor is firmly in the realm of science fantasy, not science fiction. There's no reason to believe such a thing would be possible, especially with the kind of intelligence you are asserting.
>>345009141
>Rust.
Not a problem in space
>Collisions.
A bigger problem for biologicals in fragile pressurized vessels
>Degradation.
See above
>The effects of unshielded stellar radiation.
So include shielding. Still a bigger problem for biologicals.
>There are plenty of things that require maintenance (and therefore power and therefore resources) on such a voyage.
If you can self-replicate this stops being a problem. The replica is brand new, the original wears out and "dies".
>You are really stuck on the self-replicating thing, huh? Just because resources exist doesn't mean they are available, or that they are usable in their current state.
They don't have to be. Metals are more available than food. It is easier to mine in space than to raise crops.
>I'm sorry but this isn't a cartoon, Justice League's Dark Star isn't a real thing.
Real life isn't a videogame like Mass Effect either. Biologicals don't have magical super powers. But robotics does exist.
>>345009735
>>345009846
Spectre. You know what I meant.
>>345009749
Nigga you play the game?
Every Asari is born a biotic. Turian biotic goes to their FOXHOUND equivalent. Krogans become battlemasters.
>>345009671
You can create shielding against EMP but okay son, keep meme'ing.
I every one of you fuckers that keeps spewing non sense about self replicating fantasy robots needs to work at a manufacturing plant for a while.
>>345005432
Machines cannot into original thought.
>>345009485
Aren't they like slightly more intelligent monkeys? Krogans were genuinely advanced before they nuked themselves back into bronze age.
>>345009485
Not really. The Krogan start at pretty close to genetically perfect. Their humps are like camels, storing water and nutrients so they can survive extended periods without resources; redundant major organs as "backups" two hearts, four lungs, and four testicles; highly resistant to environmental hazards, including toxins, radiation, and extreme heat and cold; a secondary nervous system using a neuroconductive fluid, meaning they are almost impossible to paralyze and their Krogan adrenal glands allowing them to fight impervious to damage until literal death.
Plus, they're all like eight feet tall balls of concentrated muscle and power that live for centuries and prior to the genophage bred out a thousand kids each per year.
Vorcha have none of that. Their big power is that they can temporarily develop the equivalent of one of those traits one time during their life when necessary. Also? Manlets.
>>345009749
Nope. The asari are, they don't even need implants to use them and they don't waste so much energy when releasing biotic powers.
In the books they insist on biotic humans having to eat energy bars everytime they can.
>>345009297
Bioweapons.
>>345002990
Because they have the greatest potential. They get shit done, they do it fast, and in those 30 years they've achieved more than any other race did in the same timeframe.
Of course this is done to make the player feel cool, but it's a reasonable explanation.
>>345009669
>it's all just magical fairy tales you're talking about.
You're thinking of biotics.
>>345010145
Beat me to it fuck.
>>345010095
>And even knowing this some idiots chose Miranda over Samara as "Biotic expert" during the Suicide mission.
>>345008706
Would Krogan be better if they didn't get cockblocked?
>>345009939
It doesn't have to be nanoscale.
>>345010095
Yes they do.
In ME1, you can purchase biotic amplifiers, and the info on them states that the best biotic amps and implants come from the Asari Republics.
>>345010282
I'm 100% sure. They almost conquered the whole galaxy after defeating the Rachni (the 1st Reaper attack of our cycle) by themselves.
>Nobody uses their biotics to excite their body's own electrical potential to super-heat the air and create plasma
>They just throw people sometimes
Wasted potential tbqh, imagine a biotics-only class that, instead of using any guns, threw PLASMA at shit
>>345010016
>Technology does not improve over time
>>345010053
You are a machine, just a biochemical one. There is nothing magical about brains that cannot be replicated using different elements.
Anyway machines would not need to be intelligent to win, just able to self replicate from asteroid ore.
>>345010347
They use implants to power up their powers but they can use biotics withouth them.
>>345010282
>potential wasted
well yeah, if my better you mean more viable
>>345010145
>being this butthurt because somebody thinks you are dumb on the internet
what happens when you realize that people think you are dumb irl, too?
>>345010456
>you are a machine
Nope, I have a soul.
>>345009695
>No you don't. Machines can spread out and colonize all that much faster because they reproduce faster and don't have as demanding logistical needs.
But they can't. Because we already have the galaxy and they're trapped on the outskirts. It's a catch 22 for the Geth. They need the Council space removed of people to get the resources they need to remove the Council people.
>Find a star system with asteroids, begin consuming asteroids, rinse repat until numbers are sufficient to exterminate opposition
I guess that would be easy if they could enter Council space with all those rich worlds and belts. Too bad they can't.
>Realistically machines would not operate that way.
According to your head-canon? I guess not. According to the lore of the game we're discussing? Hell, according to the lore of virtually any game with AI? Sorry.
>Until they are killed by machines. Then the machines have those resources.
Again, catch 22. The machines need the resources to kill them.
>Then they design variants which don't need those metals.
I guess now we're just getting into magic. "We need Element Zero!" "Turn rocks into Element Zero."
>I'm talking about a realistic scenario where intelligent self-replicating, self-improving machines have escaped into space.
Why? We're talking about Mass Effect.
>The ME universe puts them at an unrealistic disadvantage precisely because otherwise it would be impossible for biologicals to compete.
What about it strikes you as unrealistic? That there was already a society in place before the machines rose up? How would the machines exist without people to have created them? Frankly, the unrealistic part is that the machines managed to win the war with the Quarians at all.
They're not programmed to learn exponentially, they're not programmed to know how to kill or how to protect themselves. The idea that a barely sentient toaster who's entirely world revolves around making toast leads a military campaign is dumb as fuck
>>345010428
Why create plasma when you can simply crush/throw your enemies?
Much more direct and simple.
>>345009963
We clearly stopped talking about ME a while back so fuck you for even trying that.
>collisions are a bigger problem..
fucking irrelevant to the topic at hand
>durr there's no degradation in space
Micrometeorite pitting. Crystallographic defects caused by exposure to cosmic rays and by the building positive charge caused by photoelectronic emission. You don't have the slightest fucking clue what you're on about.
>If you can self-replicate then needing power and resources stops being a problem
Self-replication doesn't break entropy you massive tool
>Metals are more available than food
Irrelevant first because we're arguing if space is the ideal environment for machinery (it isn't) and second because those metals must be refined to be useful.
You are absolutely 100% wrong.
>>345010607
Why can't it be detected by scientists?
>They are using material instruments, the soul is immaterial
Then how does the immaterial soul interact with the material brain/body in such a way as to control it?
>Uhh
>>345010550
i meme on them
>>345004646
I thought they did, which is why the Turians and the Humans fought.
Seriously I don't remember the fluff for that game at all, I was never too interested in it.
>>345010347
They don't *need* them. They still use them to get the most out of their powers.
>>345010334
>It doesn't have to be nanoscale
If it's not nanoscale then it has the same limitations on access to refined materials that we do you goddamned retard
>>345010746
>Not knowing that line is from the game
How Autistic are you?
>>345007584
>Humans were hated everywhere
Hardly. They were just treated like kids who wanted to join the government, and then forced themselves into said government when they punched out a giant squid ship.
>>345009749
The implication seems to be that humans would eventually be the best biotics. The massive jumps humanity has gone through in the past couple of decades since even discovering biotics has put them just under the Asari in power. And the Asari have been using Biotics for tens of thousands of years.
One of those scrapped Mass Effect endings had to do with humanity and the biotics, if I recall correctly.
>>345010676
>I guess now we're just getting into magic.
No, you're thinking of biotics.
I concede in the ME universe machines are at a huge disadvantage. But it's designed that way because otherwise machines would easily win.
Realistically if there are spacefaring machines, we are like microorganisms to them. The notion of war against them is preposterous.
>What about it strikes you as unrealistic? That there was already a society in place before the machines rose up?
That biologicals colonized space faster than machines.
>They're not programmed to learn exponentially, they're not programmed to know how to kill or how to protect themselves. The idea that a barely sentient toaster who's entirely world revolves around making toast leads a military campaign is dumb as fuck
Simply replicating faster than we can and surviving natively in space guarantees that realistically machines would greatly outnumber biologicals.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/robots/a13310/robot-universe-dominant-lifeform-17549081/
>>345010746
>believing only in things that are empirically provable
>>345010684
Because throwing someone into a wall is significantly less cool and lethal than burning them alive with a stream of pure, white-hot pseudo-gaseous power.
>>345010456
if self replicating machines were possible, the universe would have already been overrun by somebody else pulling that shit a few billion years ago
the other possibility is that it is still in the very starting phase of being overrun, and we just don't know it yet
:)
>>345010607
If a machine were programmed to believe it has a soul, how would you convince it that it does not?
>>345010990
>quoting a line that turned the Legion into a Pinocchio wanna be
Mark Walters pls leave.
>>345010849
>If it's not nanoscale then it has the same limitations on access to refined materials that we do you goddamned retard
Refining metals is still easier to do in space than growing crops.
>>345011075
>surviving natively in space
What is this meme and where did it come from?
Are you dumb shits actually taking scifi stories as facts?
>>345011090
stop posting pictures of me
>>345008442
Mate, the only land animals stronger than us are other apex predators and other great apes. We're stronger than 99% of the other species and faster than a good chunk of them. The reason we win out, is because while we're average compared to apex predators, we still have more endurance and are smarter than them.
>>345011156
>if self replicating machines were possible, the universe would have already been overrun by somebody else pulling that shit a few billion years ago
Unless there is something "after" machinery. Biology -> machinery -> ???
There could be some form of life/intelligence we wouldn't even recognize as technological, or be capable of percieving if it is extradimensional or some shit
>the other possibility is that it is still in the very starting phase of being overrun, and we just don't know it yet
That's also possible.
>>345011186
And your assertion was still "Space is the ideal environment for robots" and not "Robots are more suited to space than Humans."
The former is what you said, and is fucking retarded. The latter is not what you said, and is obvious.
>>345003858
You never know man.
>>345011186
>Refining metals is still easier to do in space than growing crops.
You fucking what mate, it's really fucking hard. In fact it's several times harder to pull off in space due to the lack of gravity.
>>345011141
Considering the force with which enemies get slammed into walls in the games, I am pretty sure getting hit by a biotic's abilities IS lethal.
>>345002990
Humans found the largest cache of Prothean tech aside from the secret Asari one. You'd now that if you bothered paying attention.
Then because the humans put up such a fight against the Turrians and the citadel fleet was fucked by Sovereign, humans stepped up as a large part of the Council military.
>>345011229
Space probes are a real thing. We send machines into space much more than humans because machines can endure those conditions much more easily as they do not need air, water, food or a pressurized habitat.
>>345011384
>>345011156
Self-replicating machines are obviously possible.
Nanoscopic universal constructors a la Justice League are not.
Why is /v/ so dumb?
>>345011401
Ok, I concede. I used sloppy wording. Now I am saying instead that machines are better suited to space than humans. Ok?
>>345011448
I didn't say it's easy, I said it's easIER than raising crops.
>>345011075
>No, you're thinking of biotics.
Eh, I don't think psychokinesis is anymore out there than AI.
>Realistically if there are spacefaring machines, we are like microorganisms to them. The notion of war against them is preposterous.
Again, by your own headcanon. Who's to say that "realistically" AI wouldn't follow the Geth's outline? Some science fiction writer or another came along and decided that if AI was achieved it would begin self-upgrading and learning at some astronomical rate and leave humanity immediately behind. The how or why of that is generally never explained beyond "because that's scarier."
>That biologicals colonized space faster than machines.
The Geth weren't even created until two thousand years after the Council races were populating the galaxy. It's not a question of who colonizes faster, it's a question of they were too late to the party.
>Simply replicating faster than we can and surviving natively in space guarantees that realistically machines would greatly outnumber biologicals.
Again, faster than we can is predicated on a vacuum. Unlimited necessary resources.
>>345011156
>if self replicating machines were possible, the universe would have already been overrun by somebody else pulling that shit a few billion years ago
They are possible. It doesn't stop the fact that it could very well have not happened yet. Or happened in another galaxy. The "whole universe would be overrun" thing doesn't make any sense. Because it's *literally* impossible to travel between galaxies without some sort of FTL shenanigan that ignores space expansion.
>>345002990
It's so they could shoehorn in muh racism moments ofc
>>345011527
>Self-replicating machines are obviously possible.
You are made out of them, though. We call them cells. Just as birds proved heavier than air flight was possible, cells prove that self replicating machines are possible.
>>345005432
Someone here has been indoctrinated....
>>345003883
>council uses krogan agaist rachni
>council uses turians against krogan
>council was going to use humans to keep turians in line
No wonder the Volus or Elcor can't get a seat.
>>345011473
>machines don't require specific atmospheric pressures to function
What do you think holds a machine together? Magic?
>>345011156
It wouldn't matter that I couldn't convince it otherwise, it wouldn't be true. Artificial life is only a simulation. Nothing built by us in a lab or factory will ever truly live.
>>345011449
Are you saying that, in a very enclosed area with very little room to build momentum, the slam would still be lethal?
Because I have to admit, a biotic one-inch punch is pretty sick dawg.
>>345011473
It's like a never ending stream of retardation.
Space probes are specifically designed to be as faultproof and simple as possible. The more complex machiner you send into space the more it will get fucked by the environment it's in to the point where sending a self replication capable robot would be equivalent to sending an animal into space.
>>345011696
>self-replicating machines are obviously possible
>it's not impossible, you're made of them!
Reading comprehension: work on it.
>>345011813
It's magic I ain't gotta 'splain shit
>>345011621
>Eh, I don't think psychokinesis is anymore out there than AI.
Then you're dumb.
>Who's to say that "realistically" AI wouldn't follow the Geth's outline?
Someone with a better understanding than you of why machines would not aribtrarily operate within the same constraints as humans when they have the ability to operate outside of them.
>Some science fiction writer or another came along and decided that if AI was achieved it would begin self-upgrading and learning at some astronomical rate and leave humanity immediately behind. The how or why of that is generally never explained beyond "because that's scarier."
You can open up your PC right now and install a faster processor. You cannot do that with your brain.
>The Geth weren't even created until two thousand years after the Council races were populating the galaxy. It's not a question of who colonizes faster, it's a question of they were too late to the party.
Like I said, contrived circumstances which benefit biologicals
>Again, faster than we can is predicated on a vacuum. Unlimited necessary resources.
And biologicals reproduce for free? No they don't. They require even more in the way of resource processing and logistics. It is by far a more difficult, resource intensive and fragile process to raise crops in space than it is to mine metals.
>>345008442
You can actually exhaust furry animals running behind them for a sufficiently long time.
Not you anon, you're fat.
Step one: Build an alternate machine fleet, identical to the enemy's.
Step two: use them as kamikazes while the machines stall in space. The machines, of course, will try to steal them to essentially double their number. That's the way a robot thinks, after all.
Step three: the robots all cold-weld into one another and are effectively fucking useless trapped inside their metal prisons
GG robo babbies
>>345011874
My bad, arguing with like 10 people at once now.
Anyway even macro scale replicators would be OP. Once there's enough of them, if we didn't stop it in time they would simply replenish their numbers faster than we could destroy them.
>>345011587
>I said it's easIER than raising crops.
No it's not you dense motherfucker.
>>345011762
>council was going to use humans to keep turians in line
Then humans found the citadel the Krogan were a menace no more. The only reason why the council respects the human is because it's better to have humans as allies than as enemies.
>>345010730
>you massive tool
as a matter of fact, he probably is
>>345011384
>There could be some form of life/intelligence we wouldn't even recognize as technological, or be capable of percieving if it is extradimensional or some shit
Maybe so. Could be that this organic/machine intelligence phase is, in the long run, a very very temporary state of being.
>>345011858
>Today's technology is as good as it will ever get
>>345011587
>I said it's easIER than raising crops.
lmao nobleman detected
swerve, nobleman
'Cause most games like and including ME are "Humanity fuck yeah!" power fantasies.
Not that it's a massive issue or anything but it does reek of arrogance and self-satisfaction.
>>345012146
>My bad, arguing with like 10 people at once now.
>it's just one retard that keeps talking the same shit over and over
wew this place never changes
>>345012165
Feel free to continue arguing this as machines kill you but it won't prevent it from occurring. Your inability to understand why something is happening doesn't somehow warp reality.
>Friends nag me to play this shit for years
>finally sit down and do it
>Character named "Nihlus" is introduced 15 minutes into the game
OH GEE I WONDER WHO THE BAD GUY'S GONNA BE
>>345011156
>if self replicating machines were possible, the universe would have already been overrun by somebody else pulling that shit a few billion years ago
Somehow you managed to be dumber than the idiot who thinks space is the best environment for robots.
Self-replicating machines already exist both biologically and mechanically. Making something self-replicating is fucking simple. Self-replicating machine != intelligent universal constructor. They are two completely different things. See>>345011527
>>345011587
> Now I am saying instead that machines are better suited to space than humans. Ok?
Yes, that is correct, though I don't know why you feel the need to assert it. It's completely obvious.
Now to get back to the question of why spacefaring self-replicating robots wouldn't take over anything and everything and turn all matter into other robots, they are just as limited by resources as humans. The resources they require are different, but that is irrelevant. Entropy still applies and their expansion is limited by resource management, refinement capacity, supply routes, and the expansion of space itself.
Further, as degradation of metals DOES occur in space (see >>345010730) they are also forced to use some of their resources on vehicle and personal maintenance. And no, creating a new copy is not going to be less resource-intensive than repairing the old one.
>>345012423
>Literally stole the name of Obsidian's character from the sequel to their game, in their rip-off of that franchise, complete with giving Nihlus an identical set-up to Nihilus
>>345012146
>Once there's enough of them, if we didn't stop it in time they would simply replenish their numbers faster than we could destroy them.
Except entropy and conservation of matter/energy is still a thing. Infinite replication requires infinite energy.
>>345002990
Because humans are vermin that come in uninvited everywhere like cockroaches and breed like them and die off really fast and make evolved offspring that will die off slightly less fast and have next to 0 self preservation sense so we'll stuff ourselves into plasteel cans and drop from the orbit into heavily fortified positions just to blow up 1 defense and die over and over and over taking insane casualities and still being able to continue the war so long the enemy is pushed into near-extinction from skirmishes alone. We went onto a BARREN MOON in a tank FULL OF EXPLOSIVES that WE LIT AT THE OPPOSITE END just to STEAL A BUNCH OF ROCKS in a can wrapped up in a bunch of foil ready to explosively decompress at moment's notice. We almost wiped eachother out and rendered our only planet, a homeworld at that unhabitable because 2 world powers didn't like how other ran their government AND WE STILL HAVE WEAPONS THAT WE COULD USE FOR THAT, ON YOUR HOMEWORLD, WHORE.
We also had atleast 1 significant war going SOMEWHERE ever since our recorded history.
Name me 1 point in humans' existence that was documented and I will point you to a major war in that period. You want to try your luck testing our combat experience, xeno shit? We also had planes so fast that they were barely controllable AND WE PUT A HUMAN IN THEM JUST FOR A TEST DRIVE.
We also drink poison for fun, knowingly. Often while watching sport. A very popular sport involves 2 humans attempt to knock eachother out unconscious with their fists and optionally, their legs.
In other words, don't fuck with humanity unless it's consensual and for babymaking, our second favorite thing to do right after killing eachother.
>>345012423
well, you are wrong.
>>345011985
>Then you're dumb.
Sorry, robot fetishist. I didn't mean to disparage your slice of virgin fandom.
>Someone with a better understanding than you of why machines would not aribtrarily operate within the same constraints as humans when they have the ability to operate outside of them.
I guess it's true, I didn't author any Terminator x Robocop X-rated slashfiction like you did. Still, the varying levels of AI that we have created have all been retard-stupid. Yet you seem fixated on the notion that despite reality and what's already been accomplished, the next iteration of AI will SURELY become mankind's overlord with unknowable intellect. Why?
>You can open up your PC right now and install a faster processor. You cannot do that with your brain.
Sure I can. I'll go eat a can of fish, acquire some Omega3 and return to learning faster than before.
>Like I said, contrived circumstances which benefit biologicals
You mean the Council-wide ban on creating Artificial Intelligence for fear of exactly what the Geth ultimately became was a contrived circumstance for why there were no Geth previously? C'mon.
>And biologicals reproduce for free? No they don't. They require even more in the way of resource processing and logistics. It is by far a more difficult, resource intensive and fragile process to raise crops in space than it is to mine metals.
Really? You're just taking a blind assumption here. The upgrading of one AI supercomputer might require some resource of such scarcity that upgrading is literally impossible. Why in your scenario do machine seem to feed endlessly off of microscopic space smegma floating through the air in infinite quantities when industry has never worked that way, even in science fiction?
Why would a machine go around and kill organics in the first place? They don't age, they don't eat, they don't naturally overpopulate, they have no need for colonization, literally one autonomous unit as a proof of concept would be sufficient. Wouldn't mindlessly cloning yourself defeat the purpose of evolution and cause stagnation? Wouldn't a unified "optimized" operation set across the whole population cause stagnation in intelligence growth? How could a machine design machines more intelligent than it is, not in a processing speed kind of way, but in terms of creativity?
Machines are literally a stagnant meme, once you find out how to disable one, you take them out all.
>>345011802
You're in a simulation right now. You think your soul is real, and it is funny.
>>345011767
Are you being ironic?
>>345012870
>Still, the varying levels of AI that we have created
I work in "AI" and it's a misnomer. We haven't created AI in the sense you are thinking. Neural networks are not AI. Statistical chat bots are not AI. Siri, Cortana, etc. are not AI. They are simple mathematical and/or semantic systems that do not even come close to approaching the basic requirements of AI. Calling it AI is just a trick. A marketing gimmick to evoke images of the actually-intelligent Star Trek computer.
That said, a true AI would be able to build a better AI and so on; it's generally accepted that once true AI is developed it will quickly evolve into something advanced beyond mankind. That doesn't mean it's gonna kill us all or that any of his other bullshit is any less retarded.
>>345012964
#%^#DIRECTIVE 0. ELIMINATE ALL BIOLOGICAL LIFEFORM INFESTATION. CLEANSE THE BIOSPHERE; AWAIT FOR HUMANITY'S RETURN AND FURTHER DIRECTIVES.
>>345012906
>How could a machine design machines more intelligent than it is, not in a processing speed kind of way, but in terms of creativity?
I'm assuming a robot would create another robot to fulfil a function it itself cannot. Kind of why humans created robots in the first place.
>Why wouldn';t that one robot just upgrade itself to fulfil the function?
For the same reason your cordless drill isn't also a handsaw I suppose. Creating something to achieve one specific goal is efficient design.
>>345002990
Because even back when it was still good, Bioware still occasionally dropped the ball when it came to writing.
>>345012870
>I guess it's true, I didn't author any Terminator x Robocop X-rated slashfiction like you did. Still, the varying levels of AI that we have created have all been retard-stupid. Yet you seem fixated on the notion that despite reality and what's already been accomplished, the next iteration of AI will SURELY become mankind's overlord with unknowable intellect. Why?
To be fair, Pepper is a thing. A robot with emotions protected from things like sexual or emotional abuse due to its status as a feeling being.
>>345004168
If you look at modern times, western european countries like France and England now have immigrant and immigrant descended populations of millions from almost zero fifty years ago. I could imagine space colonisation would be similar. A colony of 2 million after fifty years isn't unbelievably high.
What's more unrealistic is how a lot of space pirates and criminals seem to be humans and there is even a good lot on dangerous Omega, a violent and i assume economically weak place like that would be the last place i could imagine human immigration to. People don't immigrate to Mogadishu now do they?
>>345002990
Humans in Mass Effect are intelligent space rats with guns.
>>345013221
Machines, just like literally any construct of any kind, only operate within certain parameters. They cannot magically operate at any atmospheric pressure or pressure differential. They can be crushed. They can be pulled apart. Making something that won't break apart in space is difficult and resource-intensive.
>>345009482
we know prostitution was already legal
>>345012423
Did you fucking play the first mission you utter utter retard
>>345013392
>Pepper is a thing
Pepper is not AI. Pepper is explicit programmed logic. It is a simulation of intelligence, not an emulation. There is a massive difference.
>>345010676
>They're not programmed to learn exponentially, they're not programmed to know how to kill or how to protect themselves. The idea that a barely sentient toaster who's entirely world revolves around making toast leads a military campaign is dumb as fuck
In ME, the Geth were all connected and presumably to their military bots too. The Geth is one entity made up of millions of machines. Kinda like the internet-of-things on steroids.
>>345003858
Stifled anger
You don't know that for sure, you pink faggot
>>345012870
>I'll go eat a can of fish, acquire some Omega3 and return to learning faster than before.
That's not upgrading the hardware, imbecile.
Do you even read the garbage that you type before you hit the enter key?
>>345012964
Whatever, toasterfucker
Oh yay, just in time for a Mass Effect thread when I just went through that fuck you of an ending Bioware gave us.
>>345013335
Yeah but how would he know how to design that machine? Again I stress out it's not about raw performance, but somethings that would be more free in it's thought processes. Humans design machines because they can't lift 10 tons or because they can't compute pi to a trillionth decimal place in nanoseconds but they understand the concept behind it. A machine couldn't build another machine that could think outside of it's own programming because it wouldn't know how. Machines don't act, they only react.
>>345014354
Do you accept that brains are 100% physical?
Do you accept that physical processes are deterministic and thus can be emulated in a computer?
If you accept the above you cannot logically assert than a computer cannot reach human intelligence or have original thoughts.
>>345014354
We have programmes that can learn and modify itself today don't we?
There's a physics based animation thing that learns how to make a character rig walk properly without falling over through trial and error.
It can't bee too long now before we can create a programme that can create answers to questions with sufficient data.
What I'm getting at is that's it not impossible for humanity to create a programme/AI/robot that can learn, gather information and create logical answers and results and apply them. It's just a matter of time.
Did the human fuck yeahs in this thread even play the third game? The turians are the only race that consistently fights the Reapers to a standstill. Their fleet actually did work before their homeworld got shitted on unlike Earth's fleet.
Humans and turians did all the leg work during the Reaper war. Shit talk the asari and the frogs all you want, but humanity and the turians are total bros. We decided the best way to have first contact was to have a wrestling match. Human-turian relations resulted in the best spaceship and the best FemShep romance option.
Krogan get an honorary mention, but if we're being honest, that's like 80% Wrex and 15% Grunt.
>>345014172
This is not bait.
I think ME3 deserved the shitstorm for the shitty and unexplained ending it had at launch. That said, I also think the Director's cut solved most of the things that people was angry at (why is now my crew dead and now alive, why Joker left Shepard, what happened with the fleet we got, etc).
Of course it's not the ending we wanted or expected but...come on, tell me one way of dealing with the fucking Reapers, machines that have been killing everything since millions of years ago, withouth a deux ex machina.
Also, a lot of people is still mad at the "we kill organics so machines don't kill organics". It's a very understandable point from the PoV of a machine. "Killing 1000 so 10 survive is better than doing nothing and 0 survive". Also reapers told us many times "it's not a thing you can understand".
Also I will always be mad because the game lacks a final boss battle (I expected TIM to be controlled by Harbinger like Saren was by Sovereign).
>>345002990
So you are just discovering how shit this franchise is? This franchise is mediocre shit friend.
>>345014871
>We have programmes that can learn and modify itself today don't we?
No, the things you're thinking of are systems that create random solutions or random incremental changes and the ones that achieve certain milestones or improve on previous metrics are used to "seed" the next generation. There is no learning as you understand it there.
As I said before, there is nothing even close to approaching the layman's conception of AI. We haven't even begun the process. We don't even fully understand all the physical processes of the brain.
However, you are still correct that (as long as determinism and mind-brain unity hold) true AI is possible and likely inevitable.
>>345014815
>Do you accept that brains are 100% physical?
But it works 100% by chemical reactions, a computer can't do that.
>>345015389
It doesn't have to. As long as those chemical reactions are deterministic (they are) they can be emulated by the machine.
Imagine a perfect emulation of a human brain. Every process, every chemical reaction, every synapse modeled and functional and acting identically to the way a real human brain does.
Why should that brain be considered different from or less capable than a "real" human brain? Simply due to the extra level of abstraction?
>>345015387
A lot can happen in a few generations. AI is on its way. To the future.
>>345015634
>A lot can happen in a few generations
True.
>AI is on its way.
False.
Even if we knew how the brain works and where to begin with emulation we're still way behind on the processing power necessary.
>>345013502
>They cannot magically operate at any atmospheric pressure or pressure differential.
Nobody said that they could, you difficult cunt.
>Making something that won't break apart in space is difficult and resource-intensive.
So what, you impossible faggot? Doesn't stop humans from doing it already, with goofy slapped together shit.
You think 'its hard tho' is a barrier to something being possible, especially for the hypothetical super advanced, self improving AI? GTFO you boring quim.
>>345015803
>You think 'its hard tho' is a barrier to something being possible
No, dipshit, I was explicitly denying the statement from >>345011473 that "machines...do not need...a pressurized habitat"
If you're the dipshit who thinks Justice League and the T-1000 are real please kill yourself
>>345013264
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-08/evolving-robots-learn-lie-hide-resources-each-other
I remember this article some years back. Very interesting read.
>>345013991
>brains are not organs that can be strengthened or weakened
KYS my man
Requirements needed for robot self reproduction:
>Biological progenitors
>A robot production facility
>Massive energy source
>Mining industry
>Material refinement industry
>Component suppliers and manufacturers
>Electronics industry
>Mechanical engineer AI
>Robotics engineer AI
>Cadmium
>Palladium
>Rhodium
>Silicon
>Germanium
>Lithium
>Xenon
Requirements needed for biological self reproduction
>Energy source
>Liquid water
Robotfags BTFO
>>345002990
One thing I thought was interesting was also easy to miss and never touched onagain. In ME1 on one of the explorable planets there was a prothean artifact hidden in one of the corners of the map. If you go to it and activate it it gives a small paragraph of text. The text describes a stone age human's perspective of being abducted by protheans and being experimented on. Knowing what I know now to me this seems like maybe the protheans could have tried to engineer humans to be a big problem for the reapers.
>>345008953
I think the worst part about that picture would be the fact that the car is a PT Cruiser.
>>345002990
I think it might be because humans just breed very quickly.
And now that Krogans are sterile and turians and salarians not living that long and asaris needing other races to reproduce, humans are just considered the ultimate species
>>345016068
Very interesting, yes, but this is another case like the one in >>345015387 and >>345014871 where programs evolve in a random manner directed by natural selection. The behaviors of the robots are not intelligent nor do they learn in the sense that we mean those words.
Tech journalists are idiots.
>>345015246
>that webm filename
I was literally in tears because of how fucking shit the ending was after all the hype and and after dropping like 200+ hours over the month before ME3 release into a "perfect save". I didn't even take ME that seriously to begin with and I have never felt so much betrayed in my life and I'm a fucking east european congressman. Also director's cut didn't do jack shit to me, the damage was already done, Iun-piratedthe game by the time they released it.
>>345009963
>Rust.
>Not a problem in space
I suggest you look up how corrosion works
>Game set in the distant future with humans traveling to distant stars
>Humans all have shitty biological bodies and live typical human lifespans and have typical human drawbacks like having to shit
>Game set in the not too distant future with humans still living on earth
>Everyone you meet is either a partial or total cyborg and can leap tall buildings, live for centuries and never have to shit ever again
Why is this a thing?
>>345012423
He's horribly unimportant despite dressing in black and red and having that name.
>>345015246
Since the reapers were seen as ultimate beings, the story was already set up to be a deus ex machina; however, Vigil in 1 gave big hints to how the reapers could have been defeated without all that crucible, catalyst, red-blue-green hooha.
It's not the fact that we were left with "what happened to so-and-so" that was annoying to me, but more so that the ending kind of shits on themes and work that you did throughout the series.
It''s the destroy ending I have a beef with, don't even care about control and space magic cause that's just doing what Saren and TIM wants. I get that the catalyst is only a computer that has "self-preservation" as a goal, but I don't get the point of killing off all synthetic life when you prove the catalyst wrong in terms of synthetic's wanting to take over organics. Did they completely forget that the quarians and the geth were having a lovers quarrel over geth asking a question of self-awareness and not the geth just wiping out quarians just cause they are "inferior" organics. It is like Bioware didn't pay attention to their own story board and just threw that option in there for tension.
>>345017046
I'm a chemist and I don't know how the common corrossion that causes rust would happen in a void enviroment withouth water or ions to push the reaction.
>>345017524
That anon is wrong that rust, specifically, can happen in space. No oxygen means no oxygenation AKA rusting.
However, corrosion does still occur in space. See >>345010730
>>345017471
You can literally end the Quarian-Geth war and have them both colonize the same planet singing kumbaya and space child will still tell you that machines will always want to kill organics
>>345009496
got some more,they are somewhat funny to read?
>>345017793
>You have to sacrifice Legion to save both their races
It's not fair. He had a soul. He shouldn't have to die.
Mass Effect trilogy remastered in the leadup to Andromeda when? I don't give a fuck about ME:A but I'd buy ME1 and 2 for my PS4 ever since my PS3 was stolen by aboriginals.
>>345017471
>however, Vigil in 1 gave big hints to how the reapers could have been defeated without all that crucible, catalyst, red-blue-green hooha.
Never. He told us that we could break the cycle making impossible for the reapers to teleport directly on the citadel giving us a chance.
>It''s the destroy ending I have a beef with, don't even care about control and space magic cause that's just doing what Saren and TIM wants. I get that the catalyst is only a computer that has "self-preservation" as a goal, but I don't get the point of killing off all synthetic life when you prove the catalyst wrong in terms of synthetic's wanting to take over organics. Did they completely forget that the quarians and the geth were having a lovers quarrel over geth asking a question of self-awareness and not the geth just wiping out quarians just cause they are "inferior" organics. It is like Bioware didn't pay attention to their own story board and just threw that option in there for tension.
The catalyst says the solution he found was creating the reapers but the Crusible gave him more options. Destruction is the only option he talks as if it was something bad giving it a lot of "buts", also he tells you "but the war between organics and machines will not end and some day organics will die". He has no control over the citadel or the crusible so the election was on Shepard's hands. Or you can think that he's an AI but was programmed to assist the organic that would reach that point. He said Shepard was the first organic EVER to reach that room, maybe that has something to do with it.
>>345018035
He didn't die, he just became a little part of every Geth.It's pretty retarded, shit doesn't work like that. Consensus can be achieved without leaving a platform.
>>345017975
Post em, I love those.
>>345018295
He died. During the last minutes Legion talks in 1st person singular. EDI tells Shepard about his sacrifice later on the Normandy. He was a sentient being that ceased existing. That's the definition of death.
BTW he uploaded the Reaper's data, not himself.
>>345017793
Exactly, it doesn't make sense, I wouldn't be so annoyed if the catalyst was bluffing you instead. Since the catalyst is the reaper creator, destroying the reapers would in result destroy it, so self preservation would kick in to tell Shepard that all his synthetic bros will die when instead they would be just fine. This results in not completely destroying the whole "even though we are different we can do anything together" theme that was milked throughout the entire series, and doesn't completely shit on the work you did just a few hours ago between the quarians and the geth.
>>345017379
>Everyone you meet is either a partial or total cyborg
Maybe because you only meet mercs and soldiers and top dogs with trillions $$$ behind them in games like CoD or Metal Gear.
In realitiy it's just that sci-fi and cyberpunk are two different things.
The Reaper creator was God, right?
>>345018214
Actually, Vigil tells us that they are weakest when the reapers are sleeping in dark space. Why would you wait until they are banging down your front door to strike? Oh yeah, tension and stretching out a series.
>>345018768
>like CoD or Metal Gear.
I've never played either.
>>345018848
Nah, it was a race of fuckhuge floating cuttlefishes that can control minds.
>>345005432
The geth are fairly squishy for machines. They're hardly unkillable terminators, they even shut down when comparable damage to a human is inflicted which is somewhat realistic since any human sized robot wouldn't be able to have THAT many redundant systems.
>>345004941
Human scientists just found technology in dirt, that's about it.
>meet the creator of the Reapers who turns out to be God
>tells you he created the Reapers to wipe out organic life before they can create synthetic life that will destroy organic life
Worst ending ever. Truly the blunder of the century.
All the DLC did was change 'God' to 'cuttlefish'.
>>345010053
>>345018884
We don't have the means to travel out of the galaxy withouth Mass Relays. Also nobody believed shepard.
Remember? "Ah yes, reapers..." ?
>>345017379
>tfw there will never be a good sci-fi game where humanity is the evil eldritch abomination/abusive elder race that the rest of the primitive galaxy has banded together to fight
>>345019278
>who turns out to be God
You didn't understand a shit.
It's a very logical solution for a non-sentient being that bases everything on numbers.
>If I kill every advanced being every 50.000 years organic life will persist
>If I don't do anything rogue machines will wipe all organic life.
The AI doesn't understand every organic being has self awareness and survival insctincts for himself. He understands "organics" as a whole thing. To save the whole thing better kill some of them before they all die. It's like when we hunt some animals to control the population but in a bigger scale.
Humans only make up 3% of total galactic military power but have so far proven themselves to be a tactical, logistical, and technological match for almost every other species, despite being on the galactic stage for literally less than the blink of an eye.
Hence the moniker, sleeping giant. Because if this is how humans are when things are dormant and relatively peaceful, what are they like when all bets are off?
>>345019360
That was such a fucking cop out.
>we don't believe you Shepard
>SHIT SHIT HE WAS RIGHT SHIT FUCK SAVE US
>we don't believe you Shepard, the geth could have made that rediculously advanced ship with technology that no sentient race has ever seen or even remotely understands, nor do the Geth
>SHIT HE WAS STILL RIGHT WHY DID I FORGET THAT THIS ALREADY HAPPENED
>>345018904
I'm not accusing you of playing AAA games, I merely pointed out the big name "offenders", friend.
>>345019635
Wasn't that the Halo plot?
because
>>345019831
It's God, because that.. thing takes the shape of a memory Shepard never shared with anyone. It even talks about how it created organic life but was disappointed with the way it progressed.
>>345020035
>It even talks about how it created organic life but was disappointed with the way it progressed.
That never happens. That AI was created by the Leviathan's race
>takes the shape of a memory Shepard never shared with anyone
So what? Shep could be half indoctrinated during that speech and the AI just made him see what he wanted to see. Remember he has reaper voice when you shoot him.
>>345020035
Are you joking? It said it guided evolution through the mass relays and remaining tech.
>>345017379
Xenoblade X
>>345019360
If they pulled a deus ex with this, they could pull a deus ex with anything. Let alone, they believed Shepard at the end of 1, especially if Shepard saves the council, but of course we need to pad this out so between 1 and 2 the council just has short term memory loss and goes, "REAPER WHO?".
It's a shitty plot progression, and you know it. Not once did they actually look at their own storyboard before creating that piece of shit ending.
>>345020035
>It even talks about how it created organic life but was disappointed with the way it progressed.
It talks about how it created the tech every advanced organic race depends on and how it was expecting it to end exactly the way it did.
>>345020280
I'm not talking about the DLC ending. I'm talking about the ORIGINAL ending that was so bad it had to be redone with a DLC. Like I said, the DLC merely changed 'God' for 'alien cuttlefish/squids'.
>>345020286
It explicitly said it created organics but was disappointed that they always created synthetics to destroy them.
There's a reason people call it the 'Godchild'.
>>345020516
I don't know how to tell you this, but this never happened. You are remembering dialogue that doesn't exist. It was always obviously the manifestation of the Reaper hivemind.
>>345020516
> I'm talking about the ORIGINAL ending
Me too.
>It explicitly said it created organics but was disappointed that they always created synthetics to destroy them.
Never happent. He created the reapers using the species that built him and planned the whole citadel trap thing to control organic evolution.
"Organics are chaos, I put an order to that chaos"
Making organic evolution predictable he could wipe everything each X years in a ciclic way.
>There's a reason people call it the 'Godchild'.
Starchild is the name you were looking for.
>>345012423
I like how he's one of the more reasonable and likable turians for the ten minutes he's in our story.
I also find it hilarious that if you read the codex, you'd know he's on the level and, even if all the augmentations weren't there, Saren's shady as fuck with a bare face.
>>345020857
>somehow manifests in a form that is only relevant/known to Shepard
>constantly appears to Shepard in visions and dreams
It's God.
>>345021050
If a schizo is talking to a stop sign, is the stop sign God?
>>345012423
Did you enjoyed the 5 minutes you played this game?
>>345021050
It's an ancient tech hivemind can reach into the brains of organic life to indoctrinate them. The child in Shepards dream was just a poorly executed attempt at showing us that he now has PTSD from watching one kid get splattered on earth.
You're a dummy.
>>345002990
>inconsistency in a bioware game
Gee. what a shock.
One thing that always bothered me about mass effect or really any Sci-Fi with FTL or near FTL travel is why did they build all those expensive ships?
They had smaller craft with FTL capabilities so the FTL drives aren't that expensive yet they're still fighting with guns and building huge space ships covered in guns. Wouldn't it be easier just to slap FTL drives on giant rocks with the same mass as space ships maybe put up a kinetic barrier so it can't be easily shot down and then just ram that into whatever you want dead?
You could ram that into a reaper/planet/relay/captial ship what have you and with the speeds involved even with the mass effect the impact would be huge and catastrophic far more powerful than even the main guns on the reapers, we're talking total planetary annihilation from just one ship worth of materials and for the cost of a small fleet you could take out an entire species.
Why does anyone build warships in sci-fi? I don't get it. Ramming shit with remote controlled rocks is by far the way to go.
>>345021050
Shepard has dreams of the child he saw dying on Earth. The Starchild only made Shepard see him in the form Shepard wanted.
>It's God.
It's not. It's an AI created by an ancient race to solve the war between organics and machines. After thousands of years the solution he found was the reaper cycle.
He even says he tried Synthesis but never worked.
>>345021050
Can God be created by living things then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEqlG6bhZ80
>>345021476
Because there are big guns more than capable of blowing those rocks into manageable chunks, without even using nuclear power. Also mass relays only zap you to other mass relays, you don't get to choose your exit point with too much freedom.
>>345019880
I'm just saying I'm not familiar with either.
I thought COD was all modern military still and from what I've seen I thought Metal Gear was cold war era. I didn't realize either had cybernetics let alone have them wide spread enough that most the NPCs you meet in them would be cyborgs.
>>345020341
>That scene
I always just keep imagining the player character using the classic voice just screaming "WHAT?!" every time the camera changes.
>>345021495
>Shepard, we tried synthesis but it never worked because it was by force!
>But you can do it!
>Even though it's also by force, you can still do it!!
Biowarelogic.exe
>>345021050
This video anon posted at >>345021642 is showing you how the race that created the Starchild can fuck with Shepard's mind and can talk to him using diferent forms that are familiar to Shepard. The starchild did the same.
>>345002990
>Normandy v2 is too heavy to enter planets atmospheres without getting torn apart by their gravity
>this makes it exclusively a space ship
>despite having literally no reason to worry about aerodynamics, it's still shaped like it's meant to dogfight above city skylines
Explain this shit, Bioware
>>345021726
>Because there are big guns more than capable of blowing those rocks into manageable chunks
First off that doesn't solve the problem, now you've got a shotgun of massive space rocks flying at Sub-FTL speeds at the target, lot of good that did.
Secondly you'd never hit them, you'd pop out of FTL only to find the thing speeding near the speed of light at it's target, anything you fire at it would have to go faster to catch up and hit it. It's just not going to work.
>also mass relays only zap you to other mass relays, you don't get to choose your exit point with too much freedom
Work on your reading comprehension anon, I'm specifically talking about sub FTL speeds in this scenario, even if you're going 80% the speed of light the impact force would be absolutely massive.
>>345021476
>You could ram that into a reaper/planet/relay/captial ship what have you and with the speeds involved even with the mass effect the impact would be huge and catastrophic far more powerful than even the main guns on the reapers, we're talking total planetary annihilation from just one ship worth of materials and for the cost of a small fleet you could take out an entire species.
Anon, the whole second half of ME2 is about trying to go somewhat accurately through a mass relay instead of randomly getting warped into dying by crashing into a ship graveyard or a black hole.
>>345021951
I always understood that "by force" was refering to...literally by force.
With the crusible we just power up the citadel enough so the AI can do it non forcefully.
>>345009017
>Inferior technology
>When everyone's tech is some variation of reaper-enabled tech
>>345022229
Ships don't even get that chose to light speed, anon.
>ship detects incoming missile
>GUARDIAN point defense laser fires to disable the threat
>laser beam melts the missile
>ship gets hit with the now-molten blob of metal
>ship still gets BTFO
>laser was relatively useless
????
>>345019192
Fuck off misanthope
Why do you hate our own species so much
>>345021495
Did they even have an explanation for how the hell synthesis would have happened? How does big green ball of energy have the ability to rewrite the DNA of every single living thing in the galaxy?
>>345022541
Missiles are dangerous because they are guided, usually. Not to mention getting hit by a squishy slab of slag would be miles less damaging than a shaped charge.
>>345022717
No, it's handled like it's the Wish Granter or some shit.
>>345022717
SPACE MAGIC MASS EFFECT REAPER TECHNOLOGY
Not just rewrite DNA, MAKE MECHANICAL SYSTEMS HAVE DNA.
>>345021476
In the case of Mass Effect, KKVs are entirely unfeasible.
Getting mass to appropriate speed requires an fixed Mass Relay. It also requires a sizable amount of Ezo, which is incredibly valuable.
The whole point of the Normandy was actually demonstrating a paradigm shift: The Citadel fleet was functionally useless against anything that wasn't another fleet.
Specifically the SR-2 was the perfect size and power for practical applications.
The Admiral who inspects the ship fails to realize the practical advantages a wolf pack of Normandy-class ships would revolutionize space warfare, especially with the improvements born of cross-species technology integration.
>>345004646
Humans are diplomatic.
Krogan speak in strength and only respect strength.
>>345022097
Wrong direction buddy
>A ship with a ridiculously oversized and powerful gravity drive has problems with planetary landing.
>>345005812
this
>>345022717
No. But they tell a lot of times that they don't know what the crusible is for, only that it can unleash a fuckton of energy based on the catalyst
The catalyst was activated with Shepard's DNA so it probably had something to do with it. Just add Shepard + A machine that can blast a LOT of energy + A catalyst that can decide how that energy will be used.
>>345022339
Not a single person in the galaxy gave their consent to have glowing green eyes, so yes, synthesis is still by force. There's no difference between the reapers and dragon's teeth, Cerberus' fucking with tech they don't understand, and Shepard with space magic.
>>345019942
No. Unless the precursors were humans the entire time. But that wouldn't make sense.
>>345022847
>MAKE MECHANICAL SYSTEMS HAVE DNA.
Nope that didn't happen. The Starchild said the beam would give organics a new DNA and Machines would get understanding of organic life. The beam affected both in diferent ways.
>>345023275
Everyone became biosynthesic entities. Or did you not notice the GREEN LINES OF POWER on EDI?
>>345022097
No no no, that only applies when the plot doesn't require the Normandy to land. When its needed the SR2 can land on any planet just fine.
>>345022759
Those lasers are only good at point-blank range, if the laser is making contact at all there's a high chance that the ship won't be able to move out of the way of the ruined missile fragments, even unguided as they are. Especially the larger, more important vessels
>the molten glob is less dangerous then the whole missile
"This sheet of 15th century plate metal is marginally more effective at blocking a molten .50 cal bullet than a normal .50 cal bullet when impacted at their muzzle velocities"
That is to say, it's not really a noticeable difference. KE =(1/2)mv^2 is a harsh mistress
>>345022389
Nope sorry, within the mass effect field mass is reduced and you can attain speeds that are a fraction of light go read the codex.
>>345022872
>are entirely unfeasible.
That seems more the case with the warships, for as many of those that went down in the series they lost tons of labor, materials, expensive components and of course the Element Zero, not to mention the loss of life.
If you've just got a rock the size of a ship with that ships mass effect generator you're far better off. You don't even need large ships, rock the size of a corvette would be more deadly than a capital ship.
Wew lad what a thread.
I have an actual question, why are there so few fuckable races?
Asari are generic sex appeal aliens, humans are good, quarians are gross, i dont think i have ever seen a female drell but thats an option.
What about a female hanar?
>just finished me1
>was expecting even a better game in me2, heard they fixed a lot of issues such as combat
>instead they made it a cowadoody in space and dumbed down the game in every possible
>all the rpg mechanics are gone
>the entire game is collecting your crew while accomplishing nothing
>you kill another reaper and then fight an entire fleet of them in the third game
???
>>345023236
Precursors created humans and protheans and chose Humans as their descendants.
Protheans were butthurt and attacked the precursors and the humans. The humans fought back but the precursors were almost eliminated. As a last breath precursors turnet themselves into some kind of "sentient star dust" but things were wrong and they turned into The Flood.
The flood infected everything and the Protheans build the Halos and saved every organic life DNA they could (including human) inside The Arc.
They activated the Halos, the arc send Human DNA to Earth, protheans got extinct and then the Covenant appears.
The covenant considered the Protheans as ancient gods, they found some scripts talking about how Humans were "the real deal" and they decided to eliminate the actual humans to preserve their religion.
>>345023635
It would be the difference between an RPG rocket and launching a pot of slag at a tank. The RPG rocket will use its shaped charge to blow past the armor immediately and fuck up the insides, the slag will spread out and maybe compromise the armor before cooling, especially in space.
>>345023652
Only if you're attacking planetary populations.
There are zero targets in the ME universe that are worth putting that much damage into that won't simply boost off your trajectory.
>>345023438
One thing is what you watch, another is what he tells.
10:16
https://youtu.be/CmcIJjPJyB8?t=10m16s
>>345023652
Ships can't make mass effect fields that wide. Well, maybe small ships.
>>345023682
Different planetary conditions nigga. Elcor are fuckhuge and slow because their planet is full of cliffs, Drell and Salarians are pretty much humanoid frogs and Hanar have no sexual dimorphism IIRC.
>>345022541
>ship gets hit with the now-molten blob of metal
>Laser is powerful enough to not outright detonate or destroy, but melt the missile to a point where it can damage our tissue paper ship
>>345002990
Why would population size have any bearing on whether or not they'd get a Council seat?
The Alliance is seen as a bit special because they went toe to toe with the turians. They were considered for the Spectres and Council because humans are more ambitious than other species and campaigned harder and more overtly to get these positions.
>>345018351
sorry i phrased it wrong,i wanted to know if someone else has more,not myself though
soz famalamdingdong
>>345023810
What is slag?
I have only ever heard it used to describe a woman of dubious virtue
>>345009695
There is absolutely no reason for machine civilization to be expansive. Biological need to expand is based on the fact that space and resources are needed to produce offspring, a biological imperative. A machine, provided it has spare parts, can live forever, it has no need for offspring. It has no need for display of wealth to attract mates, so there is no capitalism to drive production beyond bare necessity. A machine civilization would be probably the most ascetic one, with only enough to secure the continued existence of it's members.
>>345023968
I wish we had more on the elcor.
When i heard that one describe how they mount heavy weapons on their back like walking tanks, i really wanted to see one in combat
>>345024032
>Slag is the glass-like by-product left over after a desired metal has been separated (i.e., smelted) from its raw ore. Slag is usually a mixture of metal oxides and silicon dioxide.
>>345024032
The glassy waste from refining ore. A guided missile isn't mostly metallic so it would probably be more slag than metal.
>>345003883
>>345006382
>>345009017
Reminder that it was a scouting unit, like one of the US's battle groups.
Nothing to sneeze at, but it wasn't some huge portion of their fleet.
And also, the Turians were arrogant as shit and this let the humans surprise them with their main fleet.
Which means the inferior human ships probably vastly outnumbered the surprised & pre-occupied Turians.
When their battlegroup retreated, the Turians began mobilizing for a full-scale smack-down before the council intervened.
And it would have been a smack-down, because even 30 years after joining the citadel, humans still had just a fraction of the number of ships in the Turian navy. And they would have been (more than) 30 years behind in tech.
The council saved our asses, and referring to the humans as a 'sleeping giant' is simply human ego-stroking propoganda.
>>345024159
At least we saw Blasto wielding 2 fucking guns.
>>345023976
>missile now explodes right the fuck in your face
>you may now enjoy getting hit with a cloud of orbital buckshot
remember that once scene from Gravity? It's like that, only worse
>>345024308
>an explosion in space
Yeah that concussive wa will definitely fuck some shit up
Oh wait.
>>345024234
I think that describing the alliance as a sleeping giant was a mistake.
Humanity is in a rapid growth phrase, it does not have the manpower to really be described as such.
In a few generations then yeh maybe
>>345024419
>you need to literally explode or else it isn't possible to fragment into a million pieces from the stress
baka
>>345024419
Anon, he means the remains of the missile. Instead of getting hit by one big chunk of metal you're now getting hit by a bunch of them.
>>345024490
Remember that time a human strike team fucked the turians so hard they thought they were fighting the whole Human fleet?
>>345024308
These are warships with shields that can withstand near anything, especially small things moving fast. A missile is a threat because the shield won't block it and it will go through to detonate a shaped charge.
>>345024523
>a million pieces
Valporized immediately by the shield they have for exactly this kind of projectile.
>>345024234
>Reminder that it was a scouting unit, like one of the US's battle groups.
True, but imagine if Somalia managed to take out a US battle group. Somalia would suddenly be treated an awful lot differently to how they are now.
Humans were an unknown, they came out of nowhere and they smashed a fleet of Turians. The Turians are THE military of the citadel, don't forget; the citadel races are specialised to the point that they all play specific roles.
Also humans either invented or re-introduced the concept of carriers to space warfare of the time.
>>345024653
>>345024729
>launch dozens of missiles in a huge swarm because why the fuck not
>lasers blast them all
>overwhelm shields with 1000000000000 bullets hitting all at once
"defense"
>>345024419
Atmosphere from the ship's life support systems could sustain an explosion and even a shockwave, similar to popping a balloon.
>>345024873
That won't happen? Besides if that was the case why wouldn't you just overwhelm the shield with bullets anyways, skip the missile step.
>>345024651
Yeah if any indication from the multiplayer(other than autistic players) they had more variety then the turians.
>>345024945
Only if the explosion happened RIGHT next to the ship. Which is what the guardian system stops.
>>345024948
because it's easier to hit things with guided munitions than nonguided munitions
>not firing huge clouds of seeker missiles
do you even Future, anon?
>>345024873
Anon, foot soldiers can take a good amount of bullets with a little battery for their shields. Now imagine a warship with a bunch of generators on it.
>>345013465
Not to mention in the future, humanity back on Earth is going to be in the tens of billions of people. So a couple million leaving to colonize other worlds or go live in the citadel is a tiny fraction of what humanity actually has
And the reason why humans were such hot shit in ME1 was because of two reasons. One, they beat the Turians to a standstill, albeit a small task force. Regardless, having a completely unknown species suddenly fuck the most powerful species in the galaxy will give you a lot of respect and notice
Two, humanity was growing at an unheard of rate. We were progressing technologically faster than any of the other races. Although we were inferior at the time, given more time humans could easily have matched the council races in terms of power. We were churning out combat ships, soldiers, advancements and shit.
And finally, humanity had shown tactics that were practically unheard of before in their fight with the Turians. It wasn't so much our technology that had managed to beat the Turians back, it was our tactics.
>>345025080
But after the guardian system gets them they stop being guided. Sounds like a massive waste of resources that could be circumvented by just covering your ship with flak cannons.
>>345025119
those infantry shields drop pretty easily when they take a cloud of shotgun pellets at point blank range, anon, which is the equivalent of what we're discussing
>>345025271
Good point.
>>345025165
In ME3 there was a codex entry about a turian commander that did a tactical thing against the reapers and it was good.
I like turians they're a good race
>>345025238
>But after the guardian system gets them they stop being guided.
>bullet homes in on the target until it gets right the fuck in it's face, and all of the anti-fire maneuvers in the world won't save you
>it only stops being guided after it's too late to dodge
>this is the exact same thing as a "dumb" bullet
>that you can move in literally any direction to dodge away from, and you have between 2-3 seconds to half a minute to do so
b a k a
a
k
a
>>345002990
Fuck off alien symphatizer be hanar or some shit in the next life.
>>345025529
You treat the guardian system like it only works slightly outside of the range of a shield. In a close range dogfight you would be destroying the missiles as they left the ship.
>>345025552
Calm down Leng.
>>345015387
what you describe is not functionally dissimilar to how organisms learn either. we just automatically dismiss solutions that are unfeasible when presented with a problem. its just much more explicit with modern computers, which operate on a much less computationally complex level.
>>345007730
The reason that this is a thing is because it's based on our current technological growth in the real world
Look at how we've changed and literally evolved in the past 70 years. We've gone from basic industry, to splitting the atom, landing on the moon, sending probes past our own solar system, making great strides in robotics, engineering, computers, solar energy, etc
If anything, our advancements and progression are only going to speed up as time goes on until practically every day we're doubling the improvements in our technological developments.
It's cool and scary at the same time because although we're advancing at an unheard of rate when compared to the 10,000 years of written human history, our minds and customs are not keeping up with the changes. So we'll either implode from advancing too fast and far, or we'll explode outwards in an explosion of technological developments as humanity suddenly starts exploring and colonizing other worlds like locusts
>>345025435
Damn straight
>>345025614
if it's at that range, just shoot the ship with Guardian lasers and keep the missiles in the hanger
>>345025754
They have bigger, less complexly guided lasers for that. The guardian system is a little pew pew gun that can lock onto a missile moving in 3D space and fry it. Not even sure if it melts it, it might just fry it enough to become unusable.
>>345025747
>So we'll either implode from advancing too fast and far, or we'll explode outwards in an explosion of technological developments as humanity suddenly starts exploring and colonizing other worlds like locusts
You now realize why everyone was so fucking scared when neutron bombs and nuclear energy became a thing and then proceeded to write sci-fi about what they thought was going to happen.
>fuck up your story so bad that you have to go to another fucking galaxy to make a sequel
you can't make this shit up
>>345008706
How did the asari even survive to the space race if they rely on aliens for reproduction? Were they fucking their pets?
Or the harbinger is a sack of shit written by mongoloids.
>>345025896
The point still stands.
If you're out of laser range, then use missile swarms instead of "dumb" slugs
>>345025971
Dude, when I was a kid, I had an completely unreasonable fear of nuclear weapons
Like I would literally be afraid to sleep at night because I was afraid a nuke would fall and vaporize me and my family
I wish I could go back in time and force myself to NOT watch the movie The Day After
Because fuck man. I became terrified of nukes and radiation after that
Also, even now it fucking terrifies me that people like Obama, Trump & Clinton will/could have access to our nuclear codes
Fucking Clinton and Trump. I'm just voting for Giant Meteor 2016. Just end it all, plz
>>345005124
>Krogan, Batarians, Vorcha, Ya'ag, even the Geth.
>Not as adept at "problem solving" as humans.
>>345026018
> our motives are beyond your comprehension
> spend the next game trying make their motives make sense
You cant write the motives of extra galaxtic beings if you are not one.
They should have left it a mystery
>>345026146
Missile swarms are wasteful, and if the only thing you can do against a weapons system is MASSIVELY overwhelm it with a much larger supply of weaponry you are going to be shit in an actual engagement.
>they've got a guardian system
>use half of our missile supply to down their shields
>sir there's a second ship
>USE THE OTHER HALF
>>345016848
>I have never felt so much betrayed in my life and I'm a fucking east european congressman.
>>345026368
>not just carrying more missiles
"IR WE JUST MISSED HALF OF OUR SHOTS BECAUSE THEY CAN PERFORM MORE EVASIVE ACTIONS THAN LISTING LAZILY TO THE LEFT AND THEY'VE GOT ALMOST 30 SECONDS TO DODGE"
"FUCK TRY AGAIN"
>>345026146
>just use loads and loads of missiles to counter this weapons system
It's like if your counter to a nuclear defense system is "FIRE LIKE THIRTY MORE NUKES". We are talking exponential supply wastage to counter a single system.
>>345026101
There were most likely a whole lot more Ardat Yakshi before the asari joined the space race.
>>345026540
Railguns are the go to for engagements besides missiles. You don't dodge a slug going that fast. You are going to lose a war if you have to waste that much ammunition on each enemy, they'll win by choking your supply to death.
>>345026541
I fucking guarantee you that those missiles aren't so fucking expensive that the Alliance's DoD is counting every single one.
You know what's more valuable than missiles? The money and time the enemy has to spend replacing a destroyed capital ship
>>345026767
The capital ship won't go down if you just shotgun at it, those shields are massively powerful and the armor can take rail gun shots. You're being silly now, you think a defense system is useless and then your only counter is "use several hundred times more resources to get past it" when previously the swarm of missiles would have just bypassed the shield and killed the ship by itself.
>>345026704
>ships are placed roughly 10,000 - 30,000 km apart
>bullet moves at 1000 km/s
>>345027016
That's a normal rifle round man. Not a railgun round propelled by space magic going a high fraction of c.
>>345024308
>cloud of orbital buckshot
>Lasers now transforms missile into flak
I don't really know what you are implying but you are seriously blowing the power of things out of proportion. It's almost like you are tring to force a point that only you know or care what it is.
I know its space combat but i would like if we were not the typical /v/ nerds that are alienated to most things, like the real-life parallels that we should base this whole thing on.
>>345026368
>>345026541
>>345026146
>not applying a reflective coating on the missiles to deflect the lasers for long enough to get past them
MEDIOCRE
>>345027379
I don't know hot to tell you this anon but a powerful enough laser will just melt the coating immediately.
>>345027379
>you're now pretty much unavoidable and bling as fuck at the same time
>>345005305
Space Carriers are at least a little redeemable. Apparently Humans use Space Fighters in a different way than all the species did, and required dedicated carriers to carry all their fighters into battle.
Or something like that.
God damn I need to play Mass Effect again.
>>345027494
>we have magic space technology that makes all sorts of bullshit supermaterials, but not a material that reflects 99.999% of all incoming radiative energy
it doesn't have to last forever, it only has to last long enough to get through the laser's effective range and hit. everything is going 2fast4u here, that's not long at all
>>345025271
So we would need a ship-sized shotgun and not a fucking dinky missile.
And theres also a point where something is small and slow enough to be completely ignored by the shields and armor behind it. Otherwise those same soldiers on the ground would see their shields drained by flies flying in their direction.
>>345027746
>implying that infantry aren't walking avatars of death, slaughtering millions of curious insects as they get zapped on their shields
it's protection against bullets AND protection against Malaria, AT THE SAME TIME
>>345027708
They've not referenced them making any such thing. Hell if it was that easy they'd just make super absorbative materials to counter lasers in general and make them obsolete as a weapon.
>>345002990
What WAS the point of Mass Effect's storyline?
>Destroy a reaper in the first game
>Destroy a reaper in the second game
>Whoops you have to fight the entire fleet now and you're not going to tell the alliance how to defeat them
>Instead you'll rely on a gimmick super secret alien device and fail anyways
>>345027905
well yeah, that's one of the weaknesses of laser weapons in general
>can be reflected
>can't penetrate terrain as easily as bullets
>can't arc (which is advantageous in certain situations)
>dissipate according to the inverse square law
>get fucked up by environments like fog
>super absorbative materials
don't do that. that's what the weapon WANTS you to do, to absorb it's energy and heat up until it fails. You want to reflect it harmlessly away.
>>345027983
The first game opened up a space opera
The second game was pointless
The third game shit in the mouth of said space opera and pretended it was deep.
>>345026243
This fucking SCP is my favourite goddamn one on the whole site.SCP-093 - Red Sea Object
>>345027905
>They've not referenced them making any such thing.
that's because the writers never thought of the possibility. it's still "how to defend against laser weapons" 101
>>345026146
>>345026541
>>345026368
HOLD UP
>shields detect certain shapes so you can still do everyday shit without pulling everything away from you
>for example, most shields block pellets or shavings
>some guns use special shapes to go through shields
>this is made so you don't have to turn off your shields every time you want to sit
>make a shitload of super-hard chairs
>stuff all of them in a single pseudo-MIRV that opens after a set amount of time whether it's guided or not
>shields are useless now
>>345028298
Same here. It's a masterpiece.
>>345028363
I think they block everything small and fast moving.
>>345028363
they still block anything going above a certain speed IIRC, so your plan would still be fucked
>implying that they can't recalibrate the system to detect your chairbomb
>>345028485
>>345028512
I know man, I'm just kidding.
>>345002990
because it was written by humans you idiot. i fucking wonder why we seem important. why does almost every alien v human movie end with us winning? because we have a natural bias towards ourselves. there is nothing wrong with that but it shouldn't be surprising when it happens
>>345028140
We are talking a theoretical nearly perfectly flat reflective material versus a theoretical nearly perfectly latticed heat vent/sink. Both are almost impossible. Both would work.
>>345028754
yeah, so your ship2ship combat would be an arms race of increasingly powerful defense lasers vs increasingly effective reflective shields on guided munitions, because people have learned since the 20th century that missiles > bullets
>not just using flares
worked yesterday, worked today, will work tomorrow
Daily reminder male Shepard/Garrus is objectively the best pairing.
Female Shep can go suck a vorcha cock.
>>345028736
Thankfully the decent sci fi or 'aliens vs humans' stories are not exclusively about humans winning.
>>345026243
I know that feel, sometimes I hear an airplane passing by during the night and I start thinking of what would happen if a nuke hit.
>>345029012
Or they could just bring back to the tried and true "it's a minigun that shoots in the general direction of missiles"
>>345027983
>ME1: A single Reaper can fuck up the whole Citadel and everybody defending it, only reason the human fleet could win is because it was busy using a husk body
>ME3: Their whole massive invasion of "God-Machines" get bogged down by some militia on foot, and you can kill multiple Reapers ON FOOT
>>345029259
>implying that that works
inconsistent and wasteful. phosphorous is cheaper than 30,000 bullets
>>345029279
>ON FOOT
To be fair you needed a massive thresher maw and an orbital strike for that. Anderson's guerilla force was still retarded though.
>>345029279
>that reaper that you killed with a single nuke
HOW ARE THEY WINNING AGAIN?
>>345028512
>they still block anything going above a certain speed IIRC
It doesn't block punches and kicksalso how are they going to explain Andromeda not having super advance aliens? The Milky Way had the whole Reaper thing
you know i'd hope we'd impress aliens with our war skills, we've been doing it for thousands of years
>>345029434
This is a universe that previously made ammunition obsolete as a resource before they fucked it all up with "thermal clips". Pretty sure the bullet swarm tactic makes sense.
>>345029464
>it doesn't block punches and kicks
for the same reason why knives still work in Dune. those fall below the threshold
the real question is why ME shields can't adjust their thresholds dynamically to make themselves invincible in cqc
>>345029610
Because it'd become less like a shield and more like a repel field. Since it has to repel more things energy runs out faster.
>>345029464
The ultra advanced aliens will probably be wiped out by something. It'll be like Halo or Borderlands, their technology is still around even if they aren't.
>>345029587
you still have basic problems of actually hitting the damn things with bullets, and now you've added friendly fire if used in formation.
what's safer? trying to shoot down the projectiles and maybe missing, or deflecting them with a flare?
>>345029435
>orbital strike
From the galaxy gypsys who got half their fleet fucked while fighting the robots who wanted to be left alone.
Is not exactly an achivement at that point.
>>345005305
It's like being surprised that the Japanese basically invented carrier doctrine even though the British had the strongest navy at the time. When you want to be the new big kid on the block you need to innovate a little and come up with something the reigning superpower doesn't even realize could be a thing. Or the weaker Germans surprising the much more powerful Allies by having new innovative tactics that sidestepped the type of battle they imagined. Or a medium sized city state in Italy using innovative military tactics and equipment to defeat their more powerful neighbours and eventually become one of the most significant empires in history. This is hardly an unprecedented concept here.
The Turians expected to be able to use their dreadnaughts and existing military doctrines the same way they had a hundred times before. The humans, being the weaker nation innovated and used the somewhat inferior equipment they had on hand to deadly effect to surprise a more conventionally minded enemy.
>>345029915
Shields make those bullets harmless as an actual weapon, but as a missilefucking resource it's good. Flares are already mostly obsolete in the current year.
>>345024651
To be fair, that 'strike team' was probably a nice, fat chunk of the alliance navy.
If you're going to open a door to random, unexplored space, you're going to point some of your biggest guns at it first.
>>345029464More reapers.
>>345029464
>>345029610
>the real question is why ME shields can't adjust their thresholds dynamically to make themselves invincible in cqc
That would require the shield to absorb something close to the entire weight of whoever is attacking. And considering that its a man sized unit against, what natgeo or discovery teached us in that one documentary about martial arts, a professional heavy weight boxer can apply something like 900 pounds of force over the area of his fist if i recall correctly. I can't remember the details but it's something absurd like that.
>we are eternal. we are infinite. you cannot even comprehend the nature of our existence
what did he mean by this?
>>345030557
OH NO I HAVE TO ABSORB 900 POUNDS OF FORCE!!! HOW WILL I EVER DEFLECT THESE BULLETS BEING SHOT AT RELATIVISTIC SPEEDS????
>>345030571
According to ME3, he was bullshitting you. He was chuuni.
>>345030571
Shepard in ME1 wouldn't be able to comprehend how stupid their eventual explanation would be.
>>345005873
And I can bust your most advanced and fancy computer on the planet with a monkey wrench in 45 seconds.
>>345030037
unless you miss, or you only hit them too late to alter their trajectories
>>345030839
Which is why you fire a LOT of bullets REALLY FAST. Again, there's no reason to believe that in 21XX they haven't found a more advanced guidance system than heat seeking.
>>345029610
They're optimized for high speed, incredibly low mass weaponry.
They're entirely designed to deflect incoming micro shards of material. Stopping something big is outside their parameters, and, at least in lore, far easier using biotic barriers.
>>345029587
Thermal clips aren't a bad idea; there's just a few big problems.
1. If thermal clips are revolutionary, weaponry should be much better once they've been developed.
2 If thermal clips are disposable heat blocks, ammunition should slowly regenerate and/or soldiers should use a reinforced "drop bag" to carry them in case they need to use them once they cool in a few hours.
3. If thermal clips are disposable coolant packs, they should likely be universal.
4. Finally, and most jarringly: You don't cycle the whole universe's technology in less than a decade: half to 3/4ths of the galaxy's weapons should still have been "obsolete" active cooled mass effect weapons.
>>345031013
They are absolutely stupid because they were supposed to make it so you could fire more often and never have downtime. But they replaced a system in which you could cool faster than you fired on every weapon type so your output was essentially infinite until your unknowably large ammunition block was spent. Then you get Zaeed telling a story of his standard cooled weapon functioning better than a thermal clip weapon.
>>345030964
>implying that futuristic flares are just heat sources to deflect primitive heat-seeking weapons
>implying that they don't have other future shit like shaped emp bursts and bullshit like that
you gotta think bigger, man, this is the future we're talking about here. just because the ME writers didn't think of it doesn't mean that it isn't logically possible
>>345030682
You are retarded. I'm not going to bother explaining basic mechanics to you. You deserve to wallow in ignorance.
>>345030571
>>345030750
Pulling 'magic' powers out of their asses a la superman thanks to 'muh extra dimensions' would have been better than what we got, honestly.
All they had to do to back up that line was to keep them aloof & pull a big WTF BULLSHIT moment at some point that they don't really explain beyond 'human scientists hypothesize...'.
But instead we got this retarded shit because they needed to make it a trilogy & 'give closure'.
>>345031301
Then what do you do if they decide to fire a swarm of dummy missiles at you?
>>345009496
As a dental technician the last pic triggers me, delete this.
>>345031340
>shield can withstand the retardedly high impact energy of megajoules of kinetic energy condensed into micrometers of square meters
>can't withstand the impact of 900lbs applied over several million times that area
you're telling me that these shields that are designed to withstand the equivalent energy of freight trains hitting you, drop when you get punched.
>>345031391
>implying that I only have one flare
again, offense vs defense is an arms race of innovation
>>345031641
Thats how they work, yes.
>>345031389
You know damn well everybody and their mother would be pissed off if Bioware didn't expand on the reapers. Even if their expansion was absolute dog shit, it was only done to calm the masses.
>>345031884
that's retarded and makes no sense
bravo, bioware
>>345031728
Dummy missiles won't even be bothered with flares. They are just an explosive strapped to a rocket engine. No guidance.
>>345032007
then I laugh at their pitiful attempts to hit me, and casually move out of the way in any of my 6 degrees of freedom as I watch them take fucking FOREVER to cross the thousands of kilometers of space between us, without guidance.
Either shoot a railgun shot so fast that I can't dodge, or use a bunch of guided munitions. Those are your two options. Both have legitimate counters and counters to these counters, and so on and so forth.
>>345025165
Add on to the fact that humanity fucked the Batarians so hard that some actually believed they were harbingers of the apocalypse.
>>345032205
Swarm motherfucker. Big load of them.
>>345009749
Not even close.
Asari are by a mile.
Also krogan battle masters while rare, are far more powerful then any human you biotic. Humans are literally not the best at anything in ME. They are the jack of all trades, master of none race.
>we destroyed the Alpha Relay, and killed 300,000 Batarian civilians to trap the Reapers in dark space, thousands and thousands of light years from anywhere
>they show up in 3 years nonetheless
???
>>345032298
space is big
they are either crowded so tightly together that they're trivial to dodge, or spaced so far apart that I can slip between them.
>>345007829
His brain has more knowledge, storage, and processing capability than the computers of every person in this thread combined...
>>345032423
Or they are close enough together you can't slip between then but not so close that the entire mass is simply dodged. We're talking bullet hell.
>>345006479
Except the Citadel wasn't trying to kill us..?
>>345008853
It's the reverse. It's why the military and police keep trying to use machines for ordnance disposal and the like. Humans are too valuable to waste on something you can send a machine to do. They're expendable by nature.
>>345031925
I disagree. You can know something by its acts, not its motivations, just fine.
They should have stuck to that, instead of giving them 30 minutes of asinine dialogue.
Reapers being known as obscure menaces that usually operate behind the scenes and REALLY fuck things up when they show themselves could have been done much better than what we got.
They are the doom that we delayed through our actions in ME1, and we still don't know how many are active out there, let alone what they're doing.
And ESPECIALLY not why.
Shit, I would have set it up so that what few lines the reaper does say, (imagine the retarded theory crafting would be occurring on sites like this), lead to another near-extinction, so the player takes whatever 'exposition' the Reapers offer with a HUGE dose of salt from then on- so the player doesn't WANT to hear more from them.
>>345032592
I admire your remarkable dedication to trying to kill me, try and estimate how much those literal thousands of missiles must cost, and move out of path of the main pack while shooting the stragglers at the edges of the swarm out of my way -- since they aren't guided, they're now trivially easy to hit with that minigun idea.
It would have been better to make those guided, because even if emp flares and other bullshit had disabled them at the last minute, they would still be on more accurate approach vectors (on average) than the current swarm is now
>>345007358
This has been disproven so many fucking times its a joke. Logically its just autistic to think our early ancestors survived by expending all their calories chasing something in order to eat it. Early humans survived by scavenging and foraging. Not this insane "hurr our willpower made us chase animals till they got tired!"
>>345032971
Dummy missiles are cheap as fuck to make. They're just a shaped charge on a rocket engine and probably propelled by a mass effect field.
>>345026243
Ok but a giant meteor would basically just be a super gigantic nuke
>>345032971
>guided missiles can dodge a wall of minigun fire
What?
>>345028175
This.
>>345033323
they aren't dodging it, but because they're changing direction at the same time as you're also changing direction, they're much harder to hit. it's easier to hit the unguided ones because they're moving in a straight line
>>345033221
>rocket fuel
>rocket engines
>cheap
>>345027983
The first game reminded me of revelation space more than anything else.
Two just felt like it didn't know what game it wanted to be.
Still haven't played three
>>345033654
They are? I mean how expensive do you think an RPG missile is?
>>345033408
Not hard enough that shooting in their general direction at several thousand RPS won't guarantee a destruction.
>>345033757
there is a difference between an RPG and a missile. the fuel is of a different quality, the rocket must be made to different tolerances, survive higher stresses and temperatures, etc.
>>345032930
I agree with you, especially since the reapers were set up to be the ultimate villian in ME1 due to Sovereign's amazing speech. The only problem is the average person doesn't exactly like the "unknown" which causes games to have to deliever two hour long explanations into who, what, why, when, and where something is doing whatever it is they are doing.
Plus, Bioware was so hell bent on putting the nobody group Cerberus, so then they were forced to now give some half explanation into why the reapers were so interesting to Cerberus.
ME2 and Cerberus fucked everything up. Whose bright idea was it to make those fuckers more imporrant?
>>345033941
This is a missile that will be fired into microgravity with negligible resistance.
>>345033861
you seem to be confusing a minigun with a shotgun, anon. yes, a minigun shoots a lot of bullets, but they're in a very precise stream. you're not going to cover dozens of square meters just by pullling the trigger, you still have to fucking aim the gun, god damn.
>>345034127
What if the minigun was positioned in such a way that it constantly moves everywhere?
>>345027016
>Gun powder launched projectile that has limited power due to being required to handle the recoil being shot into air which provides an insane amount of resistance as well as being affected by gravity.
>Magnetically launched round, into a vacuum, where the recoil is mitigated by the ships engines pushing forward.
Pretty sure the maximum velocity of a railgun is gonna be pretty high, especially considering the mass effect's main effect, namely that it reduces the mass of an object. Launching a 5 ton projectile that weighs 3 pounds at the point of launch is gonna allow you to put out a fuck ton of kinetic energy.
>>345032930
And again, MUH EXTRA DIMENSIONS.
Why the fuck Bioware decided to make them mundane mega-robos gone-rogue completely escapes me.
>They can't be explained guys! Isn't that mysterious & foreboding? I bet you want an explanation!
>'Wow so mysterious, we do want an explanation!'
>o-oh, okay, I-I'll uh, I'll come up with s-something senpai...
>hands us spaghetti
>>345034127
>very precise stream
You obviously haven't seen minigun fire over long distances. They are hardly laser beams. Not just due to air resistance either.
>>345034081
I dunno, one of the lead writers really did have a hard-on for them as I recall.
Here, have this though.
>>345034085
>air resistance is the only type of stress you need to worry about
accelerating at hundreds or thousands of m/s^2 induces shitloads of compressive and shearing stresses along any welds/bolts/rivets/etc., because those connections aren't perfectly rigid. this isn't even discussing the shenanigans that super elevated temperatures and the corrosive environment brought on by burning fuel cause.
>>345034081
Yeah, reapers were a lot cooler before they decided to explain everything.
Come on Bioware, machine-gods with indiscernible or really alien motives are a staple of the space opera genre.
>>345034491
MICROGRAVITY.
Inertia is a negligible force when firing a missile, provided you aren't strapping a stupidly powerful rocket to it.
>>345034370
that's often due to the shaking of the gun in it's frame/mount causing deviances from true center that are magnified over increasing distance.
I still maintain that the concept of "hit a small moving, turning, rotating object with an EVEN SMALLER moving object in the vastness of space from a platform that is independently moving, turning, and rotating" is a very tall and inconsistent order to fill
>>345034751
Not much taller than keeping a laser trained on it.
>>345034623
>provided you aren't strapping a stupidly powerful rocket to it.
you're gonna need that stupidly powerful rocket to cover distances of thousands of km (space warfare lmao) in any kind of reasonably fast time increment.
rev up those machining tolerances
>>345034815
much taller, because you don't have to factor in travel time to target with a laser -- you just have to worry about it being powerful enough to burn through the missile's anti-laser coating soon enough to make a difference
>>345005432
>The game is made for a human audience, and we like to be flattered.
>The game is made for a human audience
>made for a human audience
Nice try alien, I'm on to you, you fuck.
We've caught you on camera before. So don't try and fucking hide it, you almost had me
>>345034460
But I don't understand why they would because Cerberus is literally NOWHERE to be seen in 1 unless you do side missions. If you are like most people and just played through 1 straight through then the moment you get to 2 you end up saying to yourself, "Cerberus who?". It was a completely bad call.
>>345034830
Mass effect fields will take care of the acceleration. The rocket just needs to be standard.
>>345034927
A computer targeting system can definitely track a missile through 3D space, leading and all. You only need a couple of hits to damage the missile into detonation.
There is obviously a reason why we think we are alone in this universe.
They are hiding from us. There is no fucking way the slow moving aliens out there who do things so incredibly slow compared to humans would ever make us aware of their existence. What we can accomplish in ten years is mind boggling when you compare that time with the age of our galaxy.
The aliens out there are most likely doing their best to hide as fast as they can before we figure out how to get out of our solar system.
Give us 500 years and we will be fucking everywhere considering how insanely fast our tech and understanding is progressing.
I have always thought of future humans as a scourge on our universe.
Killing and fucking wherever we go so we can feel some sort of accomplishment.
If us humans don't destroy our own homeworld before we move out into space then we will instead destroy the entire universe.
It is our destiny, we are entropy, we are death, we are the end of all things.
Humanity will die and we will take everything with us.
at what point in time did Cerberus transform from "fringe mad scientist terrorism group" to "space Illuminati"
>>345035235
>aliens are totally enlightened beings
>humans are DARK
Evolution doesn't suddenly value kindness and morality on other plants. Everyone is probably as ruthless as humanity.
>>345035375
In the year or two between 1 and 2, and then they became the largest military force in the galaxy by 3.
>>345035235
>we are speshul
Not likely. Natural selection is a universal principle.
And our progress will look more like pic-related. There are things we simply won't be able to do- growth isn't perpetual.
Look up the Great Filter.
>>345035426
Life evolved on other planets may be incredibly slow compared to us if they evolved on a cold world or a world with insanely long seasons.
I'm not at all saying this is what i truly believe. But I am a little puzzled as to why we have not met aliens or why we have not been whiped out. After all we are loud cave apes who base our society on ruthlessness and savagery.
Either we are pretty much alone, or we are not worth the trouble of contacting/destroying.
>>345036023
Because faster than light travel is likely impossible.
>>345036149
>is likely impossible
well it's DEFINITELY impossible with that attitude!
>>345036149
Of course it is possible.
Do you think a rat considered agriculture possible?
>>345035661
Thanks for showing me a graph of titration.
![1f8[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/mVh4RXd.jpg "1f8[1]")
![r90glhq[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/K6Bkiu0.png "r90glhq[1]")
![3qVecUd[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/KlkgdcV.png "3qVecUd[1]"){kind=small}
