>Overnerf McCree because of whiners
>Now Tracer and Reaper are literally in every game because they have no counter
Gj Blizzard
You can still kill tracers and reapers, fucktard. You just cant insta kill combo tanks anymore.
Literally git gud faggot.
Reaper is perfectly balanced, Tracer's issue is with triggering overtime, not her kit.
In other words; git gud
Adapt or die... Actually, you know what? Just die. I could use the padded K/D.
>>344689540
>>344689616
>>344689668
t: tracer/reaper mains
>>344689272
I have honestly been having more fun with McCree since the nerf. Forced mo learn how to use the M1 shot well
>>344689774
t. shitter who can't even t. right
>>344689540
Thats actually the exact opposite.
Mcree can still be a tank buster just fine.
His famous combo does about 565 damage, which will either kill or severely wound any tank, but it only works because they're so huge
Fan the hammer actually misses a great deal of bullets on smaller characters like Tracer. Only reason it worked on tracer before is because each bullet was so powerful not a lot of them needed to hit.
So despite the intentions of nerfing his Tank killing power, they actually ruined his anti tracer power.
I never see Mcrees anymore, it just goes to show that everyone was playing because he was actually op
>someone on enemy team still using mcree after the nerf
>hothead on my team already talking shit
>gets fucking PLOWED by enemy mcree over and over
>losing his shit and wont' stop screaming and typing non-sense
>gets to a point where it's no longer funny and ask him to stop
>"OH YEAH... I'LL STOP..."
>he switches to mcree
>keeps getting killed
>AAWLKDGAK.WJHDAWWG;OAGWS;WDOA
>>344690356
Nobody plays him because the effort is not worth the payoff. I used to main him before everybody realized he was good and now I just dont even bother because yeah, I could still get kills with him, but I could also just play Soldier or Reaper and do just as well for less effort put in.
He needed a nerf but they overdid it.
I'd be fine with a McCree buff if it meant I never have to fight a team with two tracers on it ever again.
That was literally one of the most cancerous things I've ever had to fight against in a video game.
>>344690356
Yeah, people are idiots, what else is new.
He's a perfectly fine hero and he can still fight Tracer but Reaper is a goddamn asshole for everyone in the game except Pharah.
>>344689272
so you see two people in every games as opposed to just one? seems like a step in the right direction.
>>344689272
You are right fucking blizzard hate them so much, its not like flashbang and a headshot could ever kill a tracer! Make McCree great again.
Zarya is more of a problem than Reaper or Tracer is honestly.
She feels practically required in comp mode.
>>344690978
>literally have .5 second to line up a headshot because tracer will just shift away
>>344689272
I love seeing reaper or tracer when I play as mccree... Maybe you are just bad anon.
>>344691039
Does Zarya even have a hard counter? The best luck I have with dealing her is going Roadhog and hooking her into the center of my team so we can gangrape her. Even then it's risky if her team is paying attention.
>>344690289
There's no excuse to not be able to kill tracer after flashbanging her. If you can't do that then go junkrat like the rest of us autismos with shit aim.
Though that's not to say mccree isn't shit. He sucks ass now but tracer isn't his problem. It's that hes objectively inferior to Soldier 76 in just about every possible way.
>>344691129
>Learn to aim faggot. Git gud.
>>344689272
Post your accuracy with Mccree anon. Show the world how much of a shitter you are.
>>344691465
Closest I've found is reaper.
And its not even really that reliable considering you're pretty much forced to feed into her shield first.
I agree McCree has been overly nerfed, he's been left without an area to clearly excel at like the other offense characters all have, and is now an inferior 76 except for his ability to interrupt some ults [which is too situational and nowhere near enough to base a character around].
Flashbang should probably last a little longer, and he could use some less falloff on his shots. The longer flashbang time is justified by virtue of the fact that other stun abilities in the game [primarily Mei and Roadhog] have nowhere near as tight an active window, and falloff by virtue of the fact that would at least leave him as a valid check against airborne Pharahs alongside 76.
>>344691465
Zarya can't do shit to anyone at long distance. Also I've had no problem killing her as junkrat. Just dont get up in her face like a moron and you're literally unkillable.
>>344691939
>>344691465
Just don't shoot her senpai
>>344691465
Just wait for the shield to go down and kill her with anyone ranged. Her shield takes a long ass time to get back up and doesn't last that long.
you fucks think your hero sucks, oh boy.
Blizzard thinks Zenyatta is "fine", lmao.
>>344692087
But then she just kills you.
>>344692325
How the fuck does anyone play him? I like alternating between all the heroes besides him.
>>344690289
What kind of fucking mcree doesn't headshot after the flash or get right in there face so the fan doesn't miss?
>>344691465
D.va
>>344692325
He's just inferior to both Lucio and Mercy really.
>>344692437
>But then she just kills you.
Don't go close to her and dodge her slow ass ranged attacks?
>>344692439
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OKmtjRwMew
his garbage tier and blizzard won't admit it.
>>344692439
You don't.
>>344691990
>roadhog stun not tight
Opinion discarded
>>344692457
The kind that cant react in a nanosecond.
>>344689774
No, he's right. Tracer is only an issue when she's stacked and/or because of overtime mechanic. She is very balanced, as is Reaper. You see Reaper because now McCree no longer melts tanks, which he never should have, and Reaper deal with them, which he always should have. Tracer is used more because noobs who used McCree and spammed FtH are gone, and people don't want to play him since he now takes skill.
They might have screwed with McCree a little too much, and they're examining that, but good McCree players still kill Genji and Tracer, and Reaper and Soldier. You actually need to aim now. In other words: he has a high skill ceiling now.
>>344689540
You needed a doublefan to kill any tank before. Now a doublefan will still kill every tank except D.Va, who dies if you flashbang her first. And since they lowered the reload time after fanning, you can reload in the time it takes for her mech to explode. The only reason why people don't go McCree to rape tanks is because he only has 200 health and zero mobility.
>>344692467
>D.va
>Being able to kill anything
lol
>>344692325
You really just dont know how to play him. he isnt always the most powerful healer but if you know how to use him you can mark and shred enemies.
I tend to use him with another healer or if our team has lots of self heals
>>344692606
Yeah I do. Sorry I am not cancer and play one hero all the time.
>stun reaper
>shoot him twice in the head and hes dead
>stun tracer
>shoot her once in the head and shes dead
literally get good
>>344692467
>>344692806
So... does Dva need a buff? I remember her being crazy scary in the beta, now she is a push over.
>>344692871
>stun reaper
>shoot him once in the head
>before you can get the second shot, he wraiths into a healthback and then comes back to rape your ass because flashbang is on cooldown
Stop playing against shitters.
>>344691465
I think the real issue is how fucking well Zarya pairs with another Tank even if its herself.
They just alternate shields and become immortal.
Go figure theres 21 heroes but the meta is stacking.
>>344692979
>not keeping track of others cooldowns
literally get good
>>344692918
You're playing against baddies.
D.va really is just a downgrade to winston in nearly every regard.
>>344692815
No, he's actually not good. This is evident at the top level of play, not low or mid, or wherever you stand. If you're getting away with abusing teams all the way from your backlines, you're not fighting smart people. Zenyatta cannot sustain a team with his healing, and at high levels you actually need another healer.
>>344693017
Double Zarya is beaten by Reaper, Pharah, or Double Zarya. Zarya + Insert Tank is also defeated by Reaper, unless the other tank is D.Va.
>durrrr mei takes no skill
>just freeze and headshot durrrrrr
>mcree is useless!
>stun rightclick doesn't kill anyone!
as if you can't stun and left click you dumb faggots
>>344693113
>Not having an omnipresent knowledge of everyones cooldowns even if you dont even know where they are on the map
The increasingly specific situations that come with balancing shitposting are hilarious.
>>344692826
>plays shit tier character that literally handicaps the team
'i-i'm being diverse guys'
literally worse than Hanzo players.
>>344692871
By the time you shoot Reaper in the head once he wraithforms away to a health pack
>>344691465
>Roadhog
Zarya beats Roadhog, so you're not fighting good Zaryas, you just don't know how to reserve fire. Zarya beats every Tank, except Reinhardt. Pharah is a hard counter to Zarya, as is Widow, Bastion, and Reaper (if he is aware of when she last used her barrier). DPS with a Mercy on them also counters Zarya.
>>344693257
More like
>Nobody wants to play tank
>Alright I got this
or
>Noone wants to play healer
>Alright I got this
or
>Noone wants to play attacker?
>Yeah right, that never happens.
>>344693227
doesnt matter cause you can pull 2 headshots on reaper before he can react anyway
and even if he somehow just runs away, its mission accomplished regardless cause hes running and not eating your tanks
>>344693208
Mei actually takes no skill though
>No aim primary fire
>Self heal
>Literally babby mode headshots
>Ult has huge AoE
>>344689272
>Blizzard in charge of balancing their games.
Blizzard was always and will always be incapable of creating balanced pvp gameplay. They already gave up a long time ago. What they do is create the illusion of overall balance. They do something called "cyclical balancing". There is always a top spec, hero, race, etc. Then they nerf it and a a new one rises to shine. So their games are never balanced, but when you considered the game throughout the time, it gives us the illusion of a balanced, since every class, spec, hero, race, had a chance to shine.
>>344693448
In order for that to happen you need to land one headshot less than 0.2s after flashbang hits. Even top competitive players have problems with that, hence why you almost never see McCree even though there are Reapers running all over the place.
>>344693382
>Zarya beats Roadhog
Not 1v1 unless the Roadhog is stupid enough to shoot her shield.
>>344692729
The only thing I think McCree needs is like literally 0.1-0.2 extra seconds of stun on his FB so average McCree players can left-click a tracer/genji on the head and then fan and kill them reliably. That's it.
>tfw all your friends want to play is hanzo, genji and widow
>they are fucking garbage with them
Everyone one else plays other heroes, but no, the same fuckers keep picking these characters. I'm never going to win any matches in ranked if no one wants to switch.
>>344693759
No, she beats him 1 on 1, unless she's stupid enough not to shield when he uses hook.
>>344693426
Stop playing quick play and use a mic then. 99% of the time in comp people actually coordinate team comp if you're not an ass about it.
Except for the Genjis and Hanzos. But natural selection will claim them eventually.
>>344692437
at MAXIMUM charge her lmb does 150dps, reaper does 240dps with all body tag and vastly more if you get headshots
>>344693382
lol
bait shield and roadhog combo does minimum 335, will instagib zarya if you get head tag and you will always get another shot off if you combo her because she again only does 150dps
>>344689272
>implying tracer and reaper haven't always been in every game
I know mccree is grouped with zenyatta as a lower tier hero but zenyatta still is so useful, whereas mccree is limited. No matter how good you are, and your teammates might know that you are the best player here, they will beg you to switch off mccree anyways. Because they don't need to be at your level to know the extent of your contribution. Mccrees skill ceiling is just that low, and his synergy nonexistent.
>>344693143
People like you will never be top level; your mentality is that of a follower rather than a leader.
In competition, you don't say a technique or ability is useless because other people aren't proficient with it, you learn how to use it the way top people don't.
>>344692439
his loadout is fine but they "balanced" it by giving you very low health with no way to actually deal with it
so in practice you just get murdered over and over because the game has so much leniency in favor of the shooter.
so you have an "OP" loadout but never actually get to use it. if they are so scared of it then something needs to change because its too difficult to play as is.
>>344693848
>Tfw in the 50's
>Every fucking match there's a genji instalocker
>They are always useless
Fuck
>>344694113
Used to only see Tracers every 5 games or so when McCree was good
>>344693918
Here is the thing anon. I do not mind playing those characters.
>>344689272
his third nerf was all he REALLY needed, arguably his first was important but now he's just outdone by most other class besides a stun thats not even a 100% kill confirm unless you bury the barrel of his gun into the guy and get 4-6 shots on the guy
>>344693885
Assuming she sees him use hook and shields it, that only gives 18 charge. She can't shield while hooked because she's stunned. She can't shield the first M1 because any Roadhog who isn't a retarded pub shitter will simply hold down the button and shoot her face immediately. The best she can do is hope the Roadhog player is braindead.
>>344693974
lol bait hook saves Zarya from any damage, and assuming it's a good Zarya she's charged up and is melting him, strafing around him. She wins, and you don't fight good Zaryas.
>>344694140
Haha, nice try but actually I just play competitively at high level, and I watch tournaments. Keep spewing buzzwords and gobbeldy-gook though instead of debating my points.
>>344693974
280 dps with only bodyshots, typo
if you get head hits in close it isn't that hard to do 400+dps
I main mcree but of course I didn't play before the nerf.
I find him challenging and fun as he is but he could use some more balancing.
The best way to deal with Zarya is to simply have the discipline to not shoot her shields. Back off or pick another target for a couple seconds then focus her down after since without a charge she's fucking useless.
Tough to do in the moment however.
Not letting her disengage is important too since she's half shield and gets her HP back naturally.
Zenyatta's biggest handicaps are his speed, shitty hitbox, and that goddamn 150HP. If you got people to bullet-block for you and keep your orbs up on people who need dead and people who need healed while shooting at anyone who lights up red you can be pretty fucking scary.
Discording healers and tanks makes them disappear if your team bothers to notice who is discorded and fires at them.
Reaper is extra fucking annoying lately, especially with all these KOTH matches that are guarenteed losses because they have a Reaper that can respond to Audio and Visual cues unlike ours
>>344693448
Fan Stuns for .75 seconds. McCree's M1 shoots at 2 rounds a second, or 1 round every .5 seconds.Reaper can avoid damage the moment he presses Shift. Assuming it takes .1 second for a player to react and fire, by the time McCree's m1 can fire again, Reaper has already gotten the wraith form off.
>>344689272
Reapers are the most annoying shitters in this game
I see you don't know how to play OW Anon otherwise you'd know that Mcree is actually fine and Tracer and Reaper do have multiple counters still including Mcree. Learn to headshot.
You've made the same thread everyday since the nerf, get over it you shitter.
Reaper is extra fucking annoying lately, especially with all these KOTH matches that are guarenteed losses because they have a Reaper that can respond to Audio and Visual cues unlike ours
>>344692325
He just needs some way to speed himself up, maybe a small boost whenever he has an orb on someone
>>344694241
Here's actually a situation: Roadhog hooks a Zarya who forgot to shield. She shields after hook and gains a huge charge, while backing up. Happens to me all the time; I never lose to Roadhog 1v1.
She can also shield teammates in his trajectory. If you're a Roadhog fighting a good Zarya, you will eventually switch off if you have a brain because you'll rarely be getting hooks. She can lob grenades ranging from 45-95 dps with AoE from a distance while he has to be close-range to really have an effect.
>>344694274
roadhog rmb still does ~150-225 damage at range and zarya does nothing without charge
either zarya wastes her shield or she dies either way, it really doesn't matter which
zarya can only beat roadhog if she surprises him when he's occupied and she has full charge, I play both of them freqeuently and I regularly have "pro" players in my QM games
zarya can't straight up fight anyone without spending a lot of time kiting and building charge, if she ever gets surprised or wastes a CD she dies immediately
>>344693143
Nobody said Zenyatta was a good healer, he's a SUPPORT. His discord and charged destructions are horrific on most heroes and teams
>>344692918
She needs slightly more health and her critbox on her mech should stop existing
>>344692439
Not in competitive.
In pub matches play him if your team bothers to stay together and literally use your teammates to bodyblock bullets- even other squishies.
Rules for Zen:
1. Always be orbing. Harmony orb needs to be on someone in your LOS always. Same with discord.
2. Learn how to hit people with his left-click. It actually hurts a lot. Particularly on people you discord!
3. Seriously don't ever leave your teammates. You have no escape like Mercy or Lucio. You only have their bodies to stop bullets.
Discord anyone who proves to be good enough to be a hard kill. Anyone who proves really annoying needs discorded- the increased damage they take is no joke and it'll overwhelm the reflexes of even shitters like Mei and Tracer. Roadhog goes from nearly immortal to fucking meat in seconds discorded.
Fuck that stupid fucking stun.
>playing Reinhardt
>faggot Cowboy throws his pocket sand at the fucking wall behind me
>get stunned
>mowed down by the rest of his team
Stuns in fps games are the worst.
I can deal with snares (EG Junkrat's trap), but holy shit I fucking hate stuns.
>>344694658
>She shields after hook and gains a huge charge
How is that possible when Roadhog can literally hold down M1 and shoot her before she's physically capable of using her shield? Stop playing against shitters.
>>344694628
Pros agree that McCree was overnerfed. Literally every pro player that used to play McCree has switched.
But keep on memeing faggot
>>344692325
>blizzard thinks zenyatta is fine
last I heard they were looking at him for how to change him to get him to fit in line with everyone else, if they needed to. Just like they are looking at Zarya.
>>344692467
>>344692918
>Dva flies up to me
>Strafe left and right rapidly in her face
>She misses almost every shot because of the absolutely horrible spread of her weapon
Every time.
>>344694597
Junkrat from a distance. High-ground 76. Absolutely Pharah. Believe it or not - D.Va.
>>344694676
That never happens, and I use Zarya almost exclusively. I switch to her when I see a Roadhog, and they typically switch off when they notice they're never getting hooks, so they're never getting free kills, and if they get a hook, I shield whomever was hooked and wait for that free 50% charge to go melt them. A smart Zarya has the advantage against a smart Roadhog.
>>344694793
And every team needs a viable healer, of which there are 2. Zenyatta is a nice gimmick but he is low-mobility, low HP and has weak healing so he cannot sustain a team. His ult needs work as well. For how underwhelming it is, it charges too slowly.
>Horrific on most heroes and teams
Yeah, not good ones. He needs to be reworked.
>>344694658
you have no idea what you're talkong about dude lmao
roadhog gets a guaranteed lmb after hook before anyone can do anything every time
he does rmb -- hook -- lmb and if you didn't see him then you don't have time to react with shield because the hook and the rmb will hit almost at the same time, then even if he messes up the partial head/rest bodyshot on the lmb for an instant kill he just waits out shield and kills zarya when it ends because she cannot ever do enough damage alone to kill him in 2 seconds
>>344694918
>Pros agree that McCree was overnerfed. Literally every pro player that used to play McCree has switched.
>my character that used to be able to kill 20 out of the 21 characters in the game with two button clicks can no longer kill 20 out of the 21 characters in the game with two button clicks
>he was over nerfed! blizzard should put him back to how he was!
McCree needs some kind of buff right now, he's really outclassed by the rest of his peers in the offense class.
Want Mid-Long Range dps?
Take Pharah or Solider 76.
Want close range dueling and tank busting?
Go Reaper.
Want a hyper mobile flanker?
Genji or Tracer.
There is literally now reason to pick McCree over any other assault character, which is a shame because he is really fun to play.
i play zenny boy too much cause i enjoy pain
>remove healing orb
>increase health to 250
>replace shift ability with something for movement so you can survive better or assassinate people
done, now he fills a tank killer role the game desperately needs. he will never compete as a healer so who cares.
>>344689272
He's still pretty good all things considered. He deletes Tracer if you can aim and Reaper as well.
but at range he's just flat out inferior to 76 now... Maybe even Genji. I don't know if they also decreased aim assist range AND fire rate on top of the damage nerf, but his killing power is seriously unreliable at range.
>>344692325
Remember when /v/ was memeing about him being awesome?
>>344689272
>character revolves around precision aim now, is still very lethal albeit not top tier anymore
>but I can't get literal free kills with 420 fth wahh wahh overnerf!
flush your self mccree main, you should have spent time gitting gud instead of spamming broken heroes
>>344694832
This. Discord ruins lives.
The harmony is not a replacement for a healer, it's just a bonus. A Mercy and a Zenyatta make for a horrifying team. The entire team gets some good focused healing and more damage. And Zenyattas ult is just "negate everything briefly". He is pure offensive goodness.
>>344695106
>tank killer role the game desperately needs
The edgelord fills that role fine.
>>344694894
And Zarya can hold down barrier. Sometimes Roadhog's blast comes out, sometimes it doesn't. Everyone who plays knows this happens sometimes with a lot of characters. That still isn't a fight I lose.
>Stop playing against shitters!
I won't play against you, don't worry. My rank's above 41.
Blizzard doesn't take into account the fact that half the player base are fucking racoons who wandered into someones house looking for a snack but got distracted
they don't understand not to shoot Zarya's shield or where the rocket barrage is coming from
>>344695137
Zenyatta literally hast the best skins and highlight intros in the game.
>>344695090
Are you stupid? Do you understand what the term overnerfed means?
It means the problem wasn't fixed, now its just simply skewed in the opposite end of the spectrum
Everybody agrees McCree needed a small nerf but due to all the whiner shitters, they went too far and now he's not seen at all in pro play
>>344690679
>He needed a nerf but they overdid it.
This really.
Mcree was absolutely OP and needed a nerf, but the nerf he got sent him straight back into UP
>>344695257
not really, hes just simply the only option at the moment
dva too could fill that role well but she is terrible and tanks will laugh in your face
Just remove the damage decay on his left click, its the dumbest shit.
Damage decay is a fucking retarded idea (no wonder, it comes from blizzard designers), but it makes zero sense on a slow single-projectile type weapon. At least on tracer and reaper it makes some degree of sense.
>>344695320
>waaaah waaaaah my anti-flanker can only kill flanking characters now, I want to be able to solo tanks again
this is what you and every other mccree main sounds like.
>>344695196
>McCree has to get headshots 100% of the time or he's useless
>No other character has to
Ok
>>344694383
Its not always about "don't shoot the shields"
Her shields make slower hitting projectiles and burst damage more or less useless.
You're going to feed shield whether you mean to or not.
Do you see the Zarya rounding the corner as you shoot the Mercy?
Do you see the Zarya behind you as you attack her team in front of you?
A good Zarya will always get charge. Not shooting the shield is not exactly the problem here.
>>344692918
I do better with D. Va out of the Mech than in it. He pistol is crazy powerful.
>>344694597
I agree
>2 shots the entire cast
>Rips tanks in half
>That movespeed
>Heals by killing
>Ult charges in two seconds
>Even if you do manage to win a trade he just shifts and runs away to a health pack or behind his team.
>>344695137
He can do well but he has to have a team that can compliment him. I like to play him when we have a dedicated healer and a Reinhardt I can hide behind. I'll throw my healing orb on our healer to make sure they don't get fucked and debuff the enemy team behind the shield wall.
>>344695137
Because his design is amazing. Him being subpar doesn't change that.
>>344695442
Another Genji main who has no clue what he's talking about.
PROTIP: McCree can still solo tanks very easily. What he can't do is reliably solo flankers except Tracer.
>>344695030
you have no idea what you're talkong about dude lmao
he isn't guaranteed it. Have you read what the developers have said when it was asked why Roadhog's attack doesn't always come out first for that insta-free-kill? Better question: have you ever tried reacting after he hooks you? Do you even play this game?
Have you ever played Zarya vs Roadhog? You know if he hooks you and successfully blasts you, you still aren't dead and get a 2 second shield that always gets charged up. Roadhog almost always loses this encounter. Nice try though dude lmao
Why does Reaper get the most health out of the anyone else in the offense class AND the ability to heal himself, but Pharah who wears a fucking suit of armor is stuck with 200
>>344695274
roadhog's lmb always will come out first unless you're lagging really bad
even in the situation it doesn't he pops her shield with 1 lmb and gives her 50 charge and she's now doing ~110dps which still means she needs 5.5 seconds minimum to kill roadhog, and he does 225 per shot which means he needs to land 2/3 bodyshots to kill her, and can oneshot her if he gets enough head tag
>>344695448
If only he had some kind of ability that stunned.
>>344694793
His charged attack is actually weaker then his normal ball shots.
Its only really good at try to snipe Torb turrets. I'd say snipers or bastions too but honest getting into their view is generally a bad idea.
>>344695646
>Roadhog's lmb always comes out first
It doesn't and the developers addressed this
Everyone admitted that he needed a nerf, but a good part of the fanbase is too stubborn to admit that he is now useless. Let's just hope Blizzard learned their lesson with McCree and don't knee jerk reaction on the next balance. Can you imagine what will happen if they buff DVA to best tank?
>>344695623
>Roadhog almost always loses this encounter. Nice try though dude lmao
More often they win it, in my experience, unless I have my team with me.
Or if they run away.
People running from Zarya always gets them killed.
>>344695654
It's not like you can just stand away from him and shoot him as he walk straight at you trying to land his flash bang.
>>344695732
>>344695623
devs said stuff? where can you link it? I'd love to read it. I've been under a rock for the past few days, overwatch wise.
>>344695642
because he is expected to be up front killing tanks and hes given the tools to do it.
>>344695819
And obviously in your experience you're fighting 0 charge Zaryas going in to fight Roadhogs. Doesn't happen at higher levels, albeit maybe rarely, and even then she still has barriers or gets charge. You don't fight good people.
>>344695953
I actually keep track of the discussion, but I didn't save this. There was a question asked about why Roadhog's lmb doesn't always come out first after hook. This was intended.
>>344695502
Reinhardt and Zenyetta is a great combo and with a good soldier or widowmaker/hanzo you can stomp enemies.
Zenyetta isn't crap, people just forget that support =/= healer
>>344695676
It's the speed they hit at. A 5 charge will basically slaughter anyone you discorded beforehand. With other heroes he can instantly ruin basically anyone rounding corners or making a sudden push.
>play a character with less than 200 hp
>Reindhardt kills me with two swings of his hammer
Why is this allowed? He's a fucking tank and shits damage for no fucking reason.
>>344695642
he's literally undead so it works in the canon aspect.
>>344696070
He is a healer, and he's a bad one. He is not effective at higher levels, and he's difficult to balance. Cannot sustain a team.
>zenyatta is a good support for increasing team damage
>he's not a very good healer
>quite powerful with a healer on his team
>90% of the time you'll never see 2 supports in a game unless you're stacking with friends
Literally every game I play is 3 offense, one tank, one support (and only becuase the game warns you in red letters or you're playing them) and the obligatory sniper in every game
>>344693470
Mei is absolutely one of the most skill intensive characters to get any mileage out of once you get to a higher level of play and the enemies on Hanamura stop thinking HOW I GET PAST WALL ON CHOKEPOINT WITH CHARACTER WHO NOT GENJI????
And Hanamura is objectively her best map.
>>344696131
I don't think you know how math works, anon.
Reinhardt needs to hit you three times.
>>344696131
Shouldnt you get destroyed for getting in range of a melee attacker with no mobility ?
>>344696070
>support =/= healer
Holy SHIT this.
Symettra and Zenyatta are not replacements for Lucio and Mercy, just like Bastion and Torbjorn not being replacements for Junkrat and Mei.
>>344696318
While this is true, they leave a lot to be desired. Lucio and Mercy function anywhere and everywhere. Zenyatta and Symmetra don't. Symmetra is at best a niche pick, whereas Zenyatta can be replaced by Lucio or Mercy and the team will almost always do better.
>>344695474
I always go characters whose shots don't do much damage, so when she pops the shield as you fire, she doesn't get much charge before you stop shooting.
Basically Soldier and Tracer since they can both do this and get out of her beams range quickly.
Honestly I feel like the thing that Zen desperately needs is to be able to shield a teammate through walls.
Fuck line of sight, if my heal is this weak at least let me put it on someone hiding on a rooftop from the floor. He's a robot and a monk, is he being able to send magic robot healing balls through a wall that game breaking?
>>344689272
He still counters those two very effectively. He just no longer murders tanks like he once did, now relegating that task to Reaper. A lot of teams go tank heavy now that McCree isn't the answer to both tanks and flankers, which is why Reaper is getting so much play.
>>344696059
even if zarya has 100 charge at the start of the fight she needs just over 3 seconds to kill roadhog (more if he heals) and roadhog can oneshot her and deny her damage/gib combo her if he baits shield
nobody is saying zarya can't pick a winning 1v1 fight with roadhog but saying it significantly favors her is just completely wrong
the best part of zarya is being able to shield teammates and take small risks and then recover the health quickly, she's not really supposed to be running into the middle of everyone ever and there's even less reason to take risks when you're full charge because the enemy should be taking a risk to break through and get at you
>>344690289
This man knows
>>344695474
the problem is knowing when to avoid attacking her, and when to go ham on her.
>>344695616
>What he can't do is reliably solo flankers except Tracer
I don't see how anyone could think that. I specifically switch to him if my friends aren't able to deal with tracers (or bastions) and have 0 issue landing left clicks, right click spam or the flash bang on any character.
>>344694918
>Literally every pro player that used to play McCree has switched.
I think you'll find that has more to do with the fact he did 420 damage in under a second with very little chance to fuck it up which you would be stupid not to utilise if you wanted to win rather than he just isn't good at all now, but keep memeing faggot.
>>344696467
That's not accurate. You could replace ANYONE with Lucio or Mercy on a team with no healers and it'd probably improve. There are plenty of teams that don't need that dedicated a healer and plenty that could do with the offense/defense of Zen/Sym as well has dedicated healing.
>>344689272
Didn't you ever wonder why
WoW PVP
Heroes of the Storm
Starcraft 2
all died out?
Hint, it's because Blizzard has no idea how to balance a game.
>>344696604
If shes 100% charge she does not lose at all lol this is delusional and you clearly don't use Zarya. Roadhog cannot 1 shot her, and this never happens. This is actually delusional.
>bait shields bait shields!
Bait hook bait hook. See how easy this is?
>>344695434
Good McCrees used to be able to drop the entire cast at any range with left licks before they introduced damage falloff. They should reduce the falloff but not remove it entirely.
>>344695442
Reaper/Roadhog Main here
Mcree was my worst nightmare and I wished he would get nerfed. Then he did. Now I feel sorry for the poor fella, he I barely ever see him kill anyone but tracers
>>344692325
Game has a low skill cieling so zenyatta gets shit on by everyone else . Only char that takes actual skill and pateince imo
>>344695959
>>344696139
Still doesn't explain how he can shoot me out of the sky whilst soaking up all my rockets and then wraith forming indoors when I finally get the advantage
>>344696642
Sounds good on paper, but you're wrong. It is accurate. Zenyatta fills the support role. If you have 2 spots for support, they should almost always go to Lucio and Mercy. Zenyatta may put out DPS but his role is support and he doesn't fill it well at the moment.
>plenty of teams that don't need a dedicated healer
Name one top team that doesn't need a dedicated healer. Not a team in your rank 45 pugs.
>>344692325
Except they literally don't. There was a interview saying Zenyatta needed more work and that they were well aware of his problem.
>>344695196
Literally no other character requires you to outplay the enemy to get a kill
Ever other class has a cheese strat, even fucking zenyetta can use his discord orb and bodyshot anyone to death.
McCree literally has to:
go to the optimal range that you're not damage drop off fucked from
Get multiple headshots to get a kill
Somehow escape the fact you had to put yourself into the death zone
>>344695642
Makes sense gameplaywise.
Pharah is already a lot better at evading the majority of the cast with her fucking flying ability.
>>344696467
>>344696642
It's very easy to overlook situations where your team cannot kill other players and in a situation where that is the case and you have 2 or more tanks to deal with, having a Zenyetta is a game changer IF you can defend him. When I play with friends we often will switch a Lucio (only if we also have a Mercy at the time) for Zenyetta and it works.
Now in an ideal situation? Yes ofc Lucio and Mercy are the better choice but in a game with only 6 players on a team people really shouldn't base the viability of characters on what the pro teams run.
>other team is stacking tanks
>literally our only option is to stack reaper
think im gonna drop this shit until its in a better place.
>>344696753
hook is on a 6 second cooldown and shield is on a 10s cd, if zarya ever gets hooked she dies immediately regardless of charge level unless she has teammates that save her
roadhog doesn't even really need to bait shields if zarya gets close enough to him, he can just pop them and kill her afterwards and she'll never kill him fast enough
it's also far harder for zarya to effectively bait hook, because roadhog does far more dps than even a full charge zarya if he's at the right range
>>344693974
Zarya has 190 dps lmb fully charged m8
>>344690289
>not just shooting her while she's running around with M1's
His gun is fucking amazing.
He's a great squishy killer, and a good Reaper killer. For Reaper you just flashbang and try and get a good fan in, roll to reload but don't fan again, just M1 him to death.
Also using the fanning ability outside of just waiting for a flashbang kill is a great way to beat the shit out of a tank. You can also use his roll to avoid damage, but that's really situational.
I kinda wish you could roll a few times outside of his rolling reload ability, to give him a bit more agility.
>>344696946
You didn't read Support =! Healer did you? Are you saying "Makes any one character available for instant killing" isn't support?
>>344690356
I still play him, but I'm in rank 38 now.
If you've played any blizzard games, you know how this goes.
They don't nerf characters because they're good, or roadhog would get nerfed. They nerf classes that are overplayed. McCree was being played a whole bunch, because everyone wanted to be clint eastwood, so they nerfed him until he was played less.
See how mages were in WoW for the longest time, because the class fantasy is so strong they don't have to put effort into it.
A character like roadhog wont get played because he's a fatass that snorts and looks disgusting, so they have to make the character strong or no one would play it.
>>344695196
He's literally Zenyatta tier now
Based retard
Only buff mcree needs
No damage fall off on left click
There mcree is now good again
>>344697078
Zenyatta or Bastion both take out tanks well
>>344696802
How well are you dealing with the influx of tracers?
Easier or harder to deal with then the Mcrees?
>>344696186
>Cannot sustain a team.
This is true.
Zenyatta is IMO most useful as a secondary healer. He's like an offense/healer combo. If you want your damage to both do more damage and want extra support aside from your main Medic, Zenyatta's a decent choice.
His health is fucking shit though
>>344697008
Lol does it not occur to you maybe some people find that satisfying and actually the only reason he is so hard to use in close range is because he has such good accuracy which makes him viable in multiple situations?
If you can play Mei you can play Mcree and if you really think you need to outplay anyone with that juicy stun grenade you are delusional.
>Somehow escape the fact you had to put yourself into the death zone
Based on what
>>344697157
>I'm in rank 38
>They nerf classes that are overplayed. McCree was being played a whole bunch, because everyone wanted to be clint eastwood
>They don't nerf characters because they're good, or roadhog would get nerfed
>>344697078
Junkrat is alright against tanks
>>344697212
More like
McCree's headshots now do 150 damage instead of 130
EZ fix
>>344697326
I'm going off WoW experience since BC, this is how balancing worked in WoW, and it looks the same in ow.
This is my first fps game, if I wanted to claim to be good I would have lied about my ranking, I was posting my honest opinion.
>>344692325
>abilities only work with line of sight
>lowest health and no mobility
a small boost to move speed would be fine, or a floating passive like mercy
>>344697215
every other tank killer has too many flaws
reaper is flexible and can actually do his job
>>344697396
I really wish characters had their own multipliers for headshots rather than a generic x2
Characters like Widowmaker would be much easier to balance.
>>344697065
>in an ideal situation
ie in top level games.
ie where everything matters.
>>344697081
All sounds good on paper, but Zarya wins the Roadhog fight. Maybe when you climb above rank 50 you'll figure it's not so easy to spam hook when you're fighting a good Zarya.
>harder to effectively bait hook
no it's not
>Roadhog does far more dps than 100% Zarya
>far more
kek
>AND requires close range
Sounds like he needs a lot going for him to be effective at all m8
>>344697143
Yeah, I did. And like I said looks good on paper and maybe in quick play, but he does not work in tournaments where it all comes together.
This autism threads makes me glad that i skipped overwatch
>>344689272
>completely invalidates a bunch of heroes by stealing their role/generally being too good in all aspects
Am I supposed to mourn the 2+ Mcree Meta?
>>344692325
Literally a bad offense hero with a trash heal. Pick soldier instead.
>>344692325
>Zen is a robot probably made by some space-age super metal alloy
>has 150hp
>Obese Chinese ice slut
>has 250hp
>>344689272
>try out competitive
>half the team plays their "mains" and won't switch even if they are completely useless
>one person AFKs then leaves 2/3rds of the way into the first round
>I have 4 golds and 1 silver in a close loss
>second round, still almost win while being down 1 person, and then another person afk and leaves
>down 2/0 with a team of 4 morons
Yep. I don't see me playing solo queue competitive.
>>344692325
Not after the 0%.
Pros are forcing a buff.
>>344692457
i don't think you play this game when tracers and genjis and basically anyone moving at a decent speed slides a fucking mile after you flash
>mei's icicle gun does more damage than McCree's revoler
What the fuck? Buff his fucking LMB
>>344692079
Yes, but since half her health is shield she can just duck away from low distance fire and recover all the shield.
Zarya literally has no counter as of right now, she also has the smallest hitbox of all tanks, which is an indirect advantage.
>>344697270
Pre nerf Mcree was harder to deal with than current Tracer, current Tracer is miles harder to deal with than current Mcree
My main way of dealing with Tracer is playing Roadhog and hooking her
>>344695013
Or simply zig zag backwards while firing. She doesn't deal dmg beyond 1 meter
Am I the only person who fucking hates Roadhog ?
That stun pull is ridiculous in multiple ways, be it the auto tracking, getting pulled around corners, being stunned for the entire fucking duration of the pull... god damn obnoxious.
I also didn't really realize till recently but his gun is fucking incredible outside of the cheese combo everyone does. Just shooting people with it instead of constantly waiting for the hook to cool down can be devastating.
>>344689272
>Blizzard's usual buff and nerf game bullshit
Reason #747 why I haven't bought this game yet.
How fucked is Mercy, Mei, Soldier 76, Lucio, D. Va, and Junkrat compared to hire they played the beta?
>>344697434
Just remove line of sight on his heal
Honestly thats my biggest issue with him. Half the time my team is just running ahead and need healing but I have literally no way to reach them in time.
If they're not gonna give him a movement option just give him non-line of sight healing.
Let me heal through walls. Is his meager one man travel timed heal really gonna end up broken if you can cast it through walls?
>>344697686
>playing junkrat
>tracer shows up
>shoot a few nades and run around a corner
>drop trap
>nine times out of ten the stupid slag will walk right into it giving you a free kill
>>344690862
>he's never gone up against the bastion/reinhardt/mercy on the payload combo with supporting reaper/lucio/winston
>HOL UP
>*smacks lips
>iz you sayin'
>*eats banana
>we wuz sum kinda
>*pounds chest
>King Kong n' shit?
I walked out of the arcade when he said this.
>>344694676
>zarya can only beat roadhog if she surprises him when he's occupied and she has full charge
Bullshit. I can easily outplay a Roadhog if I duke his hook. Even unbuffed, her laser utterly melts Roadhog in fucking seconds.
Literally how fucking terrible are you.
D. VA BUFFS WHEN?
>>344697143
Zenyatta is never the right pick for the team. He's outclassed by every other support in healing, needs to hide from enemy sight lines due to low health and mobility (which limits his discord options), and gets destroyed by flankers anyways due to his unreliable damage output. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you'd want to pick Zenyatta, you're better off just picking Mercy/Lucio or 76. Those characters are all sturdier, better able to pick their fights, and either provide more utility or more damage than Zenyatta could ever provide.
He sucks hard and he needs buffs. He takes too much effort to bodyguard for too little payoff as is.
>>344697745
The only time I have problems with Roadhog is when he catches me offguard and if he's done that much he deserves to land a hook on me.
I dunno why everyone complains about the hook to be honest
>>344697672
Mei's icicle isn't a hitscan weapon
>McCree buffed by mercy
>he had a good aim.
extremely annoying
>>344695476
The pistol is like 100 dps, pretty trash in comparison to other weapons. The thing is that her and mercy's pistol has a retarded huge and forgiving hitbox (best in the game). You can be extremely far off and still hit which makes it really easy to deal damage even if you suck
>>344692687
If you count the stun as starting from the moment the hook latches and the character is no longer in control of its own movement actions, no it's not. The time lapse where the stun AND Hoadhog's fire window overlaps, however, is.
people are playing the game wrong. they are playing against the opponents characters instead of playing the character best for the map.
so you get people who won't switch characters, or whine when you choose someone that is "weak" or "dead wight" for the team.
Why does it feel like individual skill doesn't matter?
Like my performance as a player does not fucking change the outcome of the game. You can be knocking niggas out left and right but still lose. No other game gives me this feeling of no player agency. I can't carry teams like I can in CS, Tf2 or Dirty Bomb
>>344697884
They've only done 1 nerf so far from the release and that was on Mcree's fan and Widowmakers charge time
Heres the current tier list from the last tournament
Keep in mind, this is without a 1 hero limit, so more then 1 of each hero can be used. Additionally, this is the first week where they are using Blizzards competitive mode. This led to alot more KotH maps, which double Lucio and double Tracer are the best at.
>>344697745
>Just shooting people with it instead of constantly waiting for the hook to cool down can be devastating.
I love killing Reinhards by just walking straight into their shield and shooting them in the face. On rare occasions I'll get fucked by a charge, but plenty of times I'll survive the charge and deal a nice killing shot to their face.
>>344697904
Yeah but then you're playing Junkrat
>>344697495
They do. Widow's became x2.5 when they lowered her damage so headshot damage stayed the same. x2.5 on McCree would be interesting.
>>344692439
He is actually fairly effective in pubs, especially if you have bruisers you can stay behind. He shits damage at infinite ranges, and his orbs aren't bad if you use them right. Hes more of a long range sniper than a support, but hes pretty solid. His ult is great for pushes and countering non-instant death ults too.
Against competent players he is useless though. Genjis and Tracers eat him from breakfast.
>>344698210
It's an FPS with Abilities.
Ultimate > you
>>344695013
She knows how to make 500 hp feel like 200 hp with that hitbox of hers.
>>344691465
Reinhardt.
You can easily out DPS her (as long as you don't have absolutely buttfuckingly retarded teammates), and if she tries to shield your hammer swing, you can just shield cancel it. The moment you get in her face, she should be dead unless she has a lucio speedboost her out of there.
Luckly, Reinhardt is pretty core in the meta.
>>344698004
I've seen him pull people (and me) around fucking corners and through walls. If you're anyone that has around 200~ hp, getting pulled is an instant death sentence 95% of the time. On top of that you can't even react and attack while being pulled, only the nano second before he shoot/punches you.
Oh and he can heal himself, that sure helps...
All I want is no stun on his pull, it wouldn't even help that much. Everyone would still get fucked if they got pulled, you'd just be able to retaliate.
>>344698313
They had to. Her bodyshot damage was 90% of the problem. Now they just need to cut 50 off her health and maybe decrease her machine gun damage and she would be nice and balanced.
>>344692815
Zenyatta is shit, there's not getting around it. There's not even a "y-you just don't know how to use him" argument. His heal is garbage, and his damage is so bad that if you're playing him to deal damage, you're better off just picking another hero.
His ult goes against his class design and he's just garbage. There is literally no reason to ever pick him over Lucio or Mercy.
>>344698210
You aren't actually good but still want to think you are.
>>344698210
Because this isn't Dota and you can't 'carry' a shit team.
You can kill 5 members of the enemy team and turn around and find your team dead by a bastion or a widow.
>>344698232
what a healthy game
>one hero capable of killing 4 viable tanks
wew fucking laddy
Maybe Blizzard just has no idea what they are doing with balance, and we are giving them too much credit?
>>344697672
It has more dps you fuck nugget and is hitscan
>>344697672
>mei's icicle gun does more damage than McCree's revoler
Mei's gun is slow and projectile. McCree's M1 has a higher rate of fire, is hitscan and does more damage if you can actually aim which somehow people can't do even though they talk about this game's large hitboxes..
>>344698024
no but she has a million other abilities
>>344698210
because someone has to be on the point. if not then you can do a lot of work for nothing since your team isn't backing you up.
there are so many times where I get gold on objective kills and time, even taking points all by myself. its ridiculous.
but I guess its fine. let the idiots fight while i take the win.
>>344691465
Reinhardt will shit on her completely. So does roadhog. Actually, I think every other bruiser is pretty much her worst nightmare. Her damage is just too low to kill them before they kill her. Especially with her LMB being really wonky. I can fucking swear I keep it trained on bruisers for several seconds and their health bar barely moves.
all these talks about game balancing are useless until blizzard fixes servers so you dont get shot and hooked behind obstacles.
>>344698441
She's already balanced, stop being a shitter.
>>344698439
You know what I hate about Roadhog is how inconsistent he is.
Whenever I get hooked as Lucio its literally a coin flip whether or not I die
>>344693338
you can easily get two headshots off in the span of a stun. acquire skill, okay.
>>344698709
>easily
I think you mean hardly, anon.
>>344691465
Reaper
Zarya's bubble basically just turns her into Roadhog by adding 200 HP to her. Reaper can just straight up blast Zarya in the face and she can't do shit about it unless she has 90+% charge.
>>344698232
There was literally no reason or problem with McCree being a tank buster like Reaper.
Especially since there is nothing stopping a team from just front loading their initial capture lineup with HP sponges and dominating a point.
>>344698286
But trashmouse is fun and tells reinhardt to go fuck himself with his shield because IM THE ONLY ONE SHOOTING HIS SHIELD WHEN IT'S LITERALLY ONLY HIM THERE WTF ARE YOU DOING SHIT TEAM AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>344692325
He's hands down the most fun hero to play IMO, but since the McCree nerf we're now subjected to an uncontrolled influx of double Tracer bullshit, since she literally has no weakness or counter anymore (other than maybe Winston), so he's literally unplayable.
Such a fucking shame, because he really is the most original and fun hero.
>>344698709
>see a Mcree try to get close
>headshot him every single time
Shitters make me laugh, they managed to nerf McRee so hard, he's worthless.
>>344698656
Nothing better than hooking a guy and ending up behind Roadhog.
>>344698709
As someone who is EXTREMELY fucking good at McCree post nerf you in fact cannot get two headshots off before he moves or wraith forms from a single flashbang.
The only way McCree can kill a reaper is if you're fighting away from a health pack.
>>344698210
The game is extremely reliant on team work. If you can combine your skills with your teammates, then together you can be a force of fucking nature. But if you just run in there not giving a shit what your teammates are doing, you might run into a team that knows better to use their skills together against you.
i can deal with pre-nerf mcreeee but a good tracer is just a game changer much like a good widow (we're talking casual play here calm down) to the point where she can stop a team by distracting them or just running past and wrecking the backline
>>344698636
>fairly mobile long range sniper has as much or more health than half the mid and short range heroes in the game while also having one of the strongest mid range weapons in the game.
>>344698827
Garbage Gopher is fun but honestly sometimes its hard to find a spot for him on the team even on defense.
You're just so easy to gun down unless your healer is focusing you.
>Just had an incredibly fucking mad Lucio on Defending Dorado on PS4
>Username's MikeH7186
>Starts yelling at the team for not being on point
>Wastes his ultimate when no one's around and screams "WHERE THE FUCK WAS MY TEAM!?"
>Calling us retards
>I don't care, just having some fun as McCree
>We lose
>Fucking furious now
>Calls us losers and says how bad we are while he was speedboosting for the most part and not healing
>This was in Quick Play
>be /v/
>play a team game
>pitch a fit because you're having a hard time running around lone wolfing shit now
Fuck you you cancerous shits. If you were actually coordinating shit you'd know that stun is the roofiecolada for quick team rape on shitters who play like you.
>>344698656
He is awful to play as honestly. They seem to have "fixed" being hooked through walls, or at least, people don't seem get pulled through them anymore. But I can't tell you how often I'm playing roadhog, land a perfect hook, and the guy I hooked ends up behind me, or next to me, or the stun wears off before I can even fire a single shot.
>>344698801
McCrees problem was that he busted everybody with his old fan. Tankbusters are important, but the old fan really was too strong.
>>344698709
The fuck you can. Maybe if you stun him with your cursor already lined up on his head or a fucking aimbot.
>>344696851
>Pharah shitter complaining about anyone else in the entire game
WOAH THERE
>>344698024
right. its even better because of the massive fucking projectile hitboxes.
>>344698232
Why is S suddenly a higher rank than A in games now? Where did this shit come from, and why do people keep doing it? It makes no sense.
>>344696186
>He is a healer, and he's a bad one
He's a hybrid you tit. Zenyatta actually ends up with something like the 4th highest DPS in the game out of all characters, including offensive.
You're probably one of those retards who uses him for nothing but heals and then wonders why he's mediocre at it compared to M and L.
>>344697309
There's no way for a McMeme to get in range of his targets, kill them with his now shitty gun, and then escape.
>>344689616
Remove 50 health and its balanced.
>>344692918
The only thing D.Va is good for is killing Winston and stalling the point on Assault. Anything else can be done better by Winston or some other tank.
Zenyatta is worse though.
>>344699531
Reaper should have 300HP and be immune to disables during his ultimate if anything.
>>344699447
>suddenly
>>344699447
shitty japanese thing that was adopted because "????????"
>Pros playing Reaper more and more
>Reaper consistently placing higher and higher in tier lists
The reckoning draws near
>>344699619
You never really saw it 6 years ago. I'd call that pretty sudden, it seems like DeS and LoL started using it and then everyone did for some reason.
>>344698801
What hero has more than 840 health anon? The problem was he could take on anyone in the game because of pocket sand + 420 dps times two
>>344699552
Zen is a glass cannon but a lot of people are just terribad with him. You have to be aggressive with him. Discord and headshot can kill someone quick. I've melted tanks with discord. I've also sniped widowmaker with zen. In ranked.
ZEN SHOULD NEVER BE FLANKING OR POINT. ffs.
>>344699304
This really. Mcree could two-shot ANYONE with that fucking Fan combination.
Reaper's a fucking powerhouse yes, but he's extremely close ranged. Mcree can kill people fine from pretty long distances.
>>344699789
earliest I've seen S ranks were in old sega arcade games and Sonic games on dreamcast.
>>344698452
Who?
>>344699769
Its not hard to understand why. He is the most lethal hero in the game at close range. He has a decent amount of health. 2 very strong abilities. And his ult is one of the deadliest point clearing abilities in the game.
Proper use of corners and ledges let him be effective on almost every single map.
On some maps there isn't even a reliable counter pick.
>>344699828
No, Zen is fucking garbage. He shouldn't be played at all.
Making a character that is supposed to be aggressive and yet has the worst HP pool in the game is so fucking unbelievably dumb.
The best players don't pick him because he's so shit.
>>344699586
BAIT BAIT BAIT
>>344699586
No buffs. No nerfs. Reaper is absolutely perfectly balanced to do exactly what he's supposed to do and nothing more
>>344698232
>Bastion that low
Thats horse shit because Bastion seems fairly irregular play. More than all the heroes in D tier
He's just janky because you have to draft the entire team comp around him. But when it works it works
>>344700043
Reaper is the only hero that can take care of tanks with McMeme nerfed into utter garbage now.
>>344700043
Le Edgeman of free escapes and Q team wipes
>>344692457
What do you mean "get in their face?"
You have .7 seconds to do EVERYTHING. There is no time to move.
>>344700043
reaper
hes the only one that can burst down the fat fucks fast enough
hence his rise to prominence in the current meta, because he is literally the only one fulfilling the role
>>344700080
The only nerf he needs is to only have soul orbs when he's personally credited with in an elimination.
>>344697524
>but he does not work in tournaments where it all comes together.
Why do you give a shit about working in tournament level when you're some 50 - 60 scrub like everyone else. Stop acting like a tryhard faggot it's embarrassing.
Bet you're some shitter who runs duble Lucio/Tracer/Winston in fucking quickplay and at your shit tier comp rank and thinks you're hot shit for following le highest meta.
>>344699789
Yes you did, actually play games instead of shitposting on /v/ you fucking moron.
>>344699872
No he cant and never could. His fan is literally useless against any non bruiser outside of dick sucking range. There is a reason why people tell you to never fan a trace. Half your shots will miss. Yeah, he was probably too effective against roadhogs, but who gives a fuck.
>>344699872
>Mcree could two-shot ANYONE with that fucking Fan combination.
Not Roadhog. Roadhog could hook him and kill him before McCree could get his counter off.
>>344700225
Honestly the soul mechanic in general is really out of place and should probably be removed
>>344699809
so?
10s CD and 6s cd at point blank fucking range
McCree's M1 is too accurate, you can miss flashbang headshots due to some characters head lolling, and some characters who have slight knockback or are knocked back because fucking irritating shits to aim at.
What's more is if there is a torb or sym, tracer overshits on mccree, good tracers can very easily just blink through flashbang and mccree is fucked because it's a 10s cd
76 does more damage per hit because of his 35m drop off to mccree 15m drop off, so you can't even "snipe"
he's a fuck garbage character who requires significant 100x effort than any other character to just do ok. Genji on the otherhand just becomes exponentially better, McCree is just shit.
also fan the hammer might as well be called bullet diarrhea because it has no use.
>>344700287
That is something roadhog can do to literally any non bruiser. I don't think anyone below 300 health can survive a hook, shoot to the shoulders, melee combo.
>McCree is not played at high level at all anymore
>"He's fine :^)" - retards on 4chan
>>344689272
tracer and reaper are perfect wgere they are overtime is the issue not tracer and reaper is so easy to kill
>>344700225
Why would that change anything?
Torb gets scrap from everyone so I guess it uses the same programming for the sake of consistency.
>>344698024
Yeah, which means it has an outrageous projectile hitbox.
It also has much more range before any damage dropoff.
>>344700245
Give me one non-Japanese game that did it before 2010.
I'm genuinely curious, I've been playing games on almost every platform for over two decades now and I can't name one that didn't come from Japan.
>>344700396
Basically. Fan is pretty much pointless now. The damage is useless against anything the fan will hit fully, and it will miss too many shots against anything it has a chance to kill.
Do none of you babbys know how to use Junkrat? A good junkrat can even fuck up the popular double Reaper team build on KOTH.
And Roadhog can do the same to Tracer. Her dashes have a light trail for a reason. If you're quick you can track her through the dash and time your hook to grab her when she is out of it. 150 HP is a guaranteed kill even if the sg is wonky.
>>344700424
>Listening to /owg/
>Listening to fucking /v/
OWG can be pretty bad but /v/ is even worse for the most part
There are people in this very thread that think Mei is OP
>>344700080
Well, there are two minor things that should be addressed, but neither of them are particularly balance breaking
First is swapping his and Genji's interactions when confronted with Junkrat's traps. Logic dictates Reaper should be able to phase away from it in ghost form, while he currently is stuck. Meanwhile, GENJI can zip right past it and be unaffected, which is inconsistent with the fact that Tracer cannot. And seeing as Reaper fits the "siegebreaker" mold far better than Genji, he's the one who should be capable of bypassing those things.
Second, is reducing the vertical range of his Death Blosson. He shouldn't be able to kill characters on top of buildings by ulting while on the bottom of it. It should be somewhat around the height of Genji's double jump, like a reasonably flat disc
>>344699828
Wew lad post stats and rank pls. You're literally food for almost all the heroes in the game and especially flankers.
>lul dude just kill them
Yes you can kill them bit it's infinitely easier to kill zen than the other way around due to his retarded hitbox and low health.
Every zen shitter who believes that they play him right can't ever back it up it's hilarious
>>344700225
I would be fine with this.
>>344698452
yeah reaper is favored against tanks but hes not instawin against them like mcree
>>344700514
>junkrat can counter double reaper
>junkrat can counter a character that does more damage faster than them
>Roadhog can catch a tracer that is dumb enough to dash directly into that roadhogs line of fire
>this is somehow big news
>>344700382
No, it encourages aggressive in-your-face play. But he should only get orbs if he gets eliminations for the same reason.
reaper shouldn't be able to pick up health packs in wraith form, and maybe 200 health seems fair for an offensive. I main Reinhardt and even if i land two hits on him before he fires, he will still win the fight.
>>344700405
Reaper and Mei
reminder that if you want to lose the game then stay behind walls and sit around instead of firing through your allied reinhart's shield
>>344693208
Mei has a generous amount of time to line up a headshot on a target that doesn't move a bit from the place they're frozen. If you stun a Tracer or Lucio they're momentum makes them slide around, so you have like 1 second to center your crosshair on their tiny head hitboxes as their model shifts to the "stunned" stance WHILE they slide a little to score that 1 hit kill.
It's hard.
>>344700508
So the best solution to Mcree being too underpowered right now would be too decrease the spread on his FtH
>>344700481
S stands for "shuu" (秀), which is Japanese for "excellent".
I comes from the usual Japanese grading. Just like how we have A+, A, B, etc. They have their own system which is the same as ours except that instead of A+ they write "S".
I am attending university in Japan and had to have this explained to me because I didn't know what the "S" grade on my grade report was
>>344700396
but diahrrea does have a use you fucking retard
>>344700918
oh really? what use does a revolve have literally shooting out diarrhea?
>>344700667
Tracer has to dash in front of you to get away, if she's walking and you can't hook her, you're shit at Roadhog.
>He can't kill a character that has to be point blank to do the big damage
PROTIP: Stop being shit at Junkrat. You have a shift and E key ability too.
>>344700881
His spread was actually secretly nerfed at the same time as the damage, it used to be much tighter.
>>344700712
If he's close range try to shift him
>>344700396
Oh no a guaranteed free kill every 10 seconds and 420 dps every reload is not broken. You could miss half your shots and still kill half the cast. Im not saying he's good now but 70 dmg per hit on fth was conpletely fucking retarded. If you ever watched some comp matches then you would see that range barely meant anything because of lucio speed and donkey kong shitting up barriers for him
>>344701024
Of course. She can't POSSIBLY dash into a building, or behind a corner or something. She HAS to dash right in front of you.
>>344700712
>not firestriking in melee range for the instant 100 damage.
>>344700881
Actually yes, that would help a lot.
>>344700731
I think you can land a hook, shot, melee before they can pop their abilities, cant you?
>>344701058
explains why the nerf was such overkill
>>344701140
dont care, 10s cd, reasonable nerf was would be severe damage drop off to prevent FTH rng sniping.
most characters are overpowered and have their own gimmick, spewing "dps" means nothing in this game.
Roadhog has a hitscan time travel hook that is an instant kill on all but 3 characters in the game, but that's not a problem? Also his m2 can straight up one shot people without a headshot
then the knock backs in this game, tracer, mercy ult, etc
>>344700712
>tank killer shouldn't be able to kill tanks faster than they can kill him!!!
W E W
>>344700908
How is Japan?
I had a couple of friends whose dream it was to move there. They eventually did a few months ago but already hate it and are moving back. On the other hand I have another friend whose living there and loves it, and with my gf wanting to move there I'm looking for outsider perspectives. I'm not really a weeb or anything so I'm just looking for the cultural pros/cons.
McCree was legit broken before the nerfs. Reaper is only an issue when there's more than one since the game's balancing goes out the window with stacking.
Tracer is kind of bullshit due to E being nearly impossible to punish and her Ult charging in a nanosecond and breaks the game even harder than Reaper with stacking.
>>344701267
>I think you can land a hook, shot, melee before they can pop their abilities, cant you?
Both Mei and Reaper can survive the first shot MOST of the time due to their 250HP. Then quickly Cryo Freeze or Phase Away. This is not counting the times the game actually lets you Cryo Freeze or Phase away BEFORE he shoots the first shot after the hook
>>344701267
You need to get a good amount of headshots i think to insta wreck th
>>344698794
>>344698794
This.
As Zarya I'm scared to run into reaper at less than full charge
And reapers are sneaky fucks because of their teleports and lack of range.
>>344700481
Forza.
Pharah is obnoxious on Ilios. She's good pretty much everywhere, but there she's just ridiculous.
>>344698232
>almost all defense heroes are bad
>almost all tanks are good
reminder that if you enjoy dying please activate your ultimate by jumping in front of your allied reinhart's shield who has his ultimate up
>>344701504
I seriously don't understand why they didn't remove hero stacking in comp
>>344701183
There isn't always a building conveniently next to her. If she hides just go about your business and stay wary of the blink sound and/or her voice or footsteps. You hear Her? Hook her.
I do feel like Mei should be made into a Tracer/Genji counter though. They should make her freeze squishies faster, but tanks should take a little longer than they do now. And the freeze gun should consume ammo much faster. Mei might actually see comp use if she could quickly counter Tracers and Genjis.
>>344701773
this. I thought that would be the first thing to be considered.
>>344701720
Well, not all of them are bad per se. Some are situational
>>344701773
>>344701910
They did, the most recent comp ranks are with a 1 per team limit. Zenyatta still had a 0 pick rate.
>>344701773
because the people playing comp are ex-tf2 players and the people organizing games are ex-tf2 organizers
>>344701987
the most recent had double lucio and double tracer
>tracer has no counter
>flash bang
>left click stunned head
>no counter
bravo OP
>>344701987
>>344702038
I was talking about the ingame one, not organized
>>344690289
>using fan on tracers after flash
JUST LEFT CLICK THE FUCKING HEAD
>>344701891
her freezing effect needs to also reduce the distance travelled by movement abilities like winston jump, d.va boost, tracer blink
That way if she catches a Tracer the Tracer will have to rewind to get away instead of just burning one of her stupidly expendable blinks
>>344702141
>tracer has no counter
>go Mercy,
>press 2
>shoot her in the head a couple times
>no counter
bravo OP
>>344701987
>They did
pretty sure you can stack in the game
>>344701420
But roadhog hook through ten walls is stupid, i never said it was ok did i? Fth had next to no spread and stupid amount of dmg and a glorified reload to keep it going. His playstyle revolved around it because it was too strong and it took absolutely no skill to kill anyone in the game with it. Thank god they nerfed the fucker
>>344697008
>Literally no other character requires you to outplay the enemy to get a kill
Widow is basically crit shoot them in the head every time, or die useless
Tracer is basically warp speed out of their line of sight at all times, matrix dodge bullets rockets area of effect and kill them from behind or die instantly.
>>344702364
Mcroll is pretty funny when he is almost frozen
>>344702384
and the game has become even more cancer because of it
>>344702038
There are many people from fuckloads of games playing on top level teams and most of them hated stacking, but it was essential to use stacks to counter stacks. ESL made it no hero limits to make it coincide with how Blizzard's competitive mode work and were initially adamant about changing back, but they went back to one-hero less than a week later because it was so fucking cancerous.
>>344702448
No. Even if tracers are a fucking bitch, I'll take them over old OP mcree anyday
>>344702448
At least you have to aim a bit as tracer :-)
>>344702384
They should just shrink the fth spread a tad and I think all the bitching would stop.
>people talking about the design of McCree and Zen as if they're not arbitrarily bastardized versions of their original designs
McCree was designed to primarily rely on his left-click which didn't have damage falloff, with additional utility of FtH and flash being used for flyswatting annoying tracers/genjis or as a general panic button. Damage falloff was later added after everyone whined, killing the pseudo-sniping sharpshooter aspect. I'm convinced that the whole "tankbuster" angle is because blizzard were too retarded to account for flash-fan-roll and was never intended in the first place.
Similarly, Zen wasn't designed to be a "hybrid", instead they designed him around his orbs being permanent and not requiring him to to be in LoS of the target.. Him being a target that needs to regularly return to, but not stay at the frontlines was the core factor that decided both the effectiveness of his orbs, and his mobility/tankiness. Then that got bastardized with nothing to make up for it.
Blizzard probably puts a lot of thought into the original designs, but I'm convinced they have no problem with bastardizing the core strengths of a hero without doing anything to balance it out.
>>344702364
Yes. Lets buff the most annoying hero in the game.
the point of FtH was to be powerful at close range, but inaccurate.
If it's no longer powerful, why is it still inaccurate?
>>344702448
At least you can fight tracer. Whoa there mcGee was instant death
>>344701973
No, every tank other than Bastion is in "Never pick" territory.
And bastion is in "Surprise meme pick" tier.
Widow does admittedly get played, but only by aimbotters it seems
>>344702784
If roll didn't auto reload McCree's gun, I would be completely fine if his FtH damage was reverted back to normal.
I know McCree needed the nerf but fanning two people to death at once was fun as hell.
I haven't seen a single fan the hammer card at the end of the game where it used to be the most common.
>>344702784
>Damage falloff was later added after everyone whined, killing the pseudo-sniping sharpshooter aspect.
This makes complete sense, even as someone who had no familiarity with the game while in beta can see that McCree as he currently is really does not stand up to the game's claims that the Peacekeeper is an immense threat to anything it can hit.
That said, falloff-less McCree sounds like an absolute nightmare. It should definitely be reduced, but not eliminated altogether.
>>344703014
roll should reset flashbang cooldown
>>344703014
Roll is shit tier as an actual movement skill
All I wanted in exchange for the nerfs was for roll to be good
>>344702784
Problem with zen was that getting orbed was a death sentence since he would just hide like a bitch. He's definitely not good now but that was really all people did with him
>>344703185
Need to add a set duration to discord. Like 10 seconds or something. Thats more than long enough to kill people. If it falls off you can easily re-apply it
But obviously perma-orbs was a retarded idea
>not just playing hog every game and beating every character in a 1v1
>love McCree's design and personality
>find him really fun
>he's the worst character in his category by far
>if I'm not land every midrange headshot, him useless
>if I'm not tank diving and spamming FtH at every available opportunity I'm useless
Such is life.
>>344692576
>>344694167
Zenyatta's loadout was "fine" in the earlier beta and his low health made sense for what he could do, but they made one massive change with his how Orbs functioned that completely shat on him because his style of play was "too passive".
Blizzard was well aware and commented on how big of a difference this would make to Zenyatta's effectiveness, expecting that he would be dramatically weakened, BUT they would watch and see how it would play out for him before figuring out what to do with him.
They used to be permanent. Throw Harmony on a hero and no matter where they were, they would get healing. Tag an enemy with Discord and they would be on Zen's shit list until they died or he tagged someone else.
In some instances, this would be OP as fuck. Zen could kick back at home while a Harmonious Tracer could zip around with 30hp/sec healing. Discord someone and run away, let the team ruin that person's day as they've effectively and unavoidably been reduced to 66% health given his damage boost.
Now they lose their link after three seconds. Zenyatta is still squishy and his abilities (or lack thereof) don't mesh well with the need to remain linked to allies and in line of sight with his enemy. He's neither strong nor mobile enough to possibly support the team correctly.
Many suggestions about boosting his speed/health, giving him more mobility or some weird ancillary effects to himself while having others buffed, but I think a (limited) return to his old form would be perfect, fuck if they think that was "too passive".
The orb stays on the target indefinitely, but if he doesn't have line of sight, their effect is reduced to about half.
An ally only gets 12.5HP/sec. (same as Lucio's aura)
An enemy only suffers 1.2x damage (1.2 will mathematically keep it below a particular damage threshold that Mercy's 1.3x just crosses, allowing her Damage Boost to remain relevant).
Also make his Alt-Fire not shit.
>>344703303
>not just playing reaper every game and beating every character in a 1v1
>>344703412
>reaper beating pharah/tracer/toblerone 1v1
nah
>>344689272
>paying a shitty game
>>344703676
>not paying shitty games
>>344703303
>hog
>beating reaper
lmao when I play reaper I just walk forward on hogs. they can't do much of anything to me
god forbid they miss their hook, then they literally are out of hope
>hog tries to out deal dps
>just reload guns
>blast his ass away in a second, again
>>344703501
Reaper literally one shots tracer, but she can kite him, but she has to be really careful about not getting too close.
And Torb is shit
I'll give you pharah though
>>344703501
>Pharah
Fair enough
Torb isn't that much of an issue though, and Tracer often gets fucked if she gets too close
Also, Roadhog get fucked like a small thai ladyboy whenever I'm around
>>344703094
if anything I think it'd be cool to have some sort of reverse-damage falloff, where the bullets start at current FtH levels, then gain damage at longer distances. FtH would pretty much stay the same, with it doing more damage at distances where the inaccuracy is relevant, while long-range potshots would be much more effective.
it'd also be a nerf to the effectiveness of his close-range left click, but that's where FtH is supposed to come in anyway.
It'd also be really easy to tweak the damage/distance formula to find a sweet spot that's not too strong and not too weak, except Blizzard can't change a value without passing it through iterative testing for 2-3 months.
>>344689272
>because of whiners
you realize blizzard states reasons for his nerfs and none where "because the community said so".
Literally blizzard has listened to about 0% of the communities feedback...like they always do
>>344703798
You realise hog can one shot reaper. Something reaper cant do to the hog
>>344702934
>Fighting Tracer
>Implying
She has 300 hp and absurd mobility, you can't fight her unless she's retarded or you get a lucky roadhog hook, and then IMMEDIATELY kill her. Which rarely happens
>>344692467
Really?
Because most D.va's just panic and use their defense matrix and that doesn't do anything against Zaryas main fire
>>344691129
You should have the shot lined up before you flash. Git gud, stop relying on random flashes around corners.
>>344704724
>hook tracer/genji/lucio
>they gets dragged behind you or on the edge of your screen so she gets enough time to recall before you can kill her
REEEEEE
>>344700803
>guys its hard to only have ONE second to headshot a target that is standing completely still in front of me!!
It took longer than I thought it would for the McCree facerollers to start complaining. Honestly the nerf wasn't even that significant so it just shows that McCree shitters are the FOTM cancer you find in MMOs.
I hate competitive. I always manage to be the best person on my team, but my team is absolutely terrible so we lose. I'm not good enough to carry this shit.
>>344704724
>Which rarely happens
>rarely
Thanks to 20 tick, favor the shooter mechanic, and the McCree overnerf, Radhog is now 100% a better counter to Tracer since getting a hook on her WILL guarantee a kill, and if she blinks mid hook she won't go flying off to the distance like she would a flashbang and will be pulled to you regardless.
Also the hook has fucking triple the range of the flashbang and a hitbox so generous it'd make Hanzo blush, you really have zero excuse missing that thing.
>>344689272
>meanwhile widowmaker is still op as fuck
>>344703094
>beta McCree
>very good chance at outsniping a widow, 2nd best long range fighter
>great mid-range
>the best close range
He was ridiculously strong. Now he's great mid-range, but ass at everything else and his 2 buttons do jack shit. No reason to have him when you can pick a soldier.
>>344703382
They can easily remove line of sight on harmony if it expires when the ally is fully healed. This would also make it easier to apply to hurt allies. The downside is you couldn't apply it to a tank or front-line guy to pre-empt the damage they're going to take.
>>344705171
>standing still
>momentum
great reading comprehension champ
>>344705161
Worse yet is when there's a particularly perceptive Lucio/Pharah/Genji in the team that whenever you hook someone either displaces you or in any way of you landing your shot. Seems to be happening with increased regularity
>>344690862
play reaper and they will die when they enter your general viscinity, a close range head shot 1 shot kill tracers and you out damage them in their optimal damage zone
I miss my cowboy fun
>>344699828
Because discord headshot is what makes him good when he doesn't have a hit scan weapon or a janky headshot box
>>344705457
They eventually stand still, but maybe you need a minute to aim at someone
>>344705239
No, it's a very significant nerf. Even if you're godly with left clicks you're still no more useful than an average level reaper. You aren't guaranteed a kill with flash + rightclick on anyone but tracer and that's assuming you can land all shots on her when she's usually flashbanged just on the edge of the range.
>>344698220
Widowmaker deals 120 on bodyshots now instead of 150 despite having her peripheral vision absolutely fucked when she's in-scope. Also she can't quick scope now. It's perma hard scope. To rectify wounded parties Blizzard increased the damage dealt by headshots so they're trying to encourage players to go for headshots instead of striking in the body for high-damage kills.
>>344705589
>you have an entire second to aim at a target that's standing completely still in front of you fagboy
>momentum still applies and the character can still move during the stun if he is, say, jumping, like every good player will be doing while engaging in close-range combat with someone
>WHAT, DO YOU WANT AN ENTIRE MINUTE?
No, I want my second.
>>344705865
> To rectify wounded parties Blizzard increased the damage dealt by headshots
They didn't. They increased the multiplier.
Before
>150x2=300
Now
>120x2.5=300
It was a nerf, no positives to it, and it was well fucking deserved.
>>344705885
Maybe you should try playing without a crutch like the rest of the heroes
>>344706003
Oh.
Well.
Fuck.
Why do I have an easier time hitting with Hanzo than with S76?
I mean, I clip people but I can't pour in the consistent damage needed to drop someone in a fight whereas with Hanzo I one-two hit people constantly.
>>344706352
Because hanzo's arrows have the hitbox of a fucking glacier.
>>344706107
And maybe you should stop shifting the goalposts whenever your poor understanding of the mechanics rears its ugly head. But in case you're right, for consistency's sake, let's also remove Mei's freeze and make it a pure movement speed debuff, and remove Hoadhog's hook since it not only stuns characters at considerably greater range, it also delivers them to you in a neat, shootable package.
Of the stuns in the game, McCree's flashbang is by far the weakest.
>>344706003
Increasing the multiplier is increasing damage dealt by headshots because you can't get them any other way.
>>344706352
Hanzo has hitboxes that put the Huntsman from team fortress 2 to shame. They're enormous, and yet Hanzo players are the biggest shitters next to Genji 'mains'
>>344706524
Except the damage didn't increase, numbnuts. It did 300 before, it does 300 now.
>>344706352
>Why do I have an easier time hitting with Hanzo than with S76?
Because the hitbox on Hanzo's arrows are retarded and Blizzard won't tweak him. All they have to is make the arrow shoot directly where it's going and narrow the fucking size but they won't. So many kill-cams I've seen an arrow coursing past me by magically land in my body. Or worse--in the god damn head.
>>344695103
Outside of Roadhog, I can't think of a better counter-flanker.
>>344706609
>see an arrow whizzing by a foot diagonally above your head
>die
>see an arrow coming for your crotch
>headshot
>>344706582
The damage was decreaded to 120 so "To rectify wounded parties Blizzard increased the damage dealt by headshots" by increasing the multiplier.
>>344706841
> increased the damage dealt by headshots
Only they didn't.
>>344689272
>play mcree
>complain
lmfao
>>344706840
It's the god damn worse. Hanzo differences between he and Widowmaker works. He can notch an arrow and let it fly for anywhere from 25 - 125 damage. His peripheral vision isn't fucked by auto hardscope, he can scale walls to escape from half the cast, his Sonic Arrow does damage needlessly and his Scatter Arrow does like 300+ damage if all arrows strike an opponent and 125 if one does. His ult is great, his Sonic Arrow allows for great wall hacks even if it doesn't strike an enemy and the voice line for his Okami alt is way lower than his WAGA TEKI bullshit so you have a higher chance of striking people who aren't paying attention. He works--it's just his arrow hitboxes are completely asinine to the point of being comical.
And yet Widowmaker has a pointless poison mine that needs to deal more damage. 125 over three seconds would be perfect. And then she gets hit with perma-hardscope and 120 body damage. Zenyatta's and Tracers can fuck around a map with impunity now that they know a Widowmaker won't put them down immediately. God I hate that.
>>344707418
The whole point of nerfing Widow's bodyshot is so Zen isn't complete garbage. At least tracer is fast and erratic.
I'd blow my (re)load on Tracer's body after flashing her desu
>>344707418
It was utter bullshit that Widow could bodyshot down a Zenyatta, and everyone knows it execpt for you no-skill, instalocking career Widows.
>>344690356
I dropped him because >>344690679
The fact a tracer or reaper or mei can just mash panic buttons to escape him now is sad. No real reason to play him over other assaults
>>344707418
>Pointless poison mine
>>Not using it as a free notification that someone is near the area you placed it
>Zenyatta's and Tracers can fuck around a map with impunity
>>One-shotting a player with a body hit is way too powerful especially if you can spam those shots quickly.
I still want a fucking alt fire for Reaper and D.VA so they aren't so braindead to play.
>>344689668
>die die DIE
>thanks for the k/d
>don't take it personell
>kid
Fuck off edge boy
>>344691465
Best bet is to wait for her shield to go down and nuke her with your whole team, since it's a 12 sec cooldown
>>344708419
>7 arrows
Everytime
>>344708154
Same. I also wish Zero Suit D.Va had something she could use.
>>344705457
>Lucio/Pharah/Genji in the team that whenever you hook someone either displaces you or in any way of you landing your shot
Guilty. Booping people who get too close has become impulsive
>>344706003
Yes it was. Her bodyshots were stupidly strong before.
>>344697603
>fat guy with no clothing at all has 600
>>344708949
He's from irradiated australia
For all we know his fat mutated into kevlar.
>ITT: Tracer and Reaper mains desperate to keep their only hard counter out of relevancy through any form of shitpost necessary and former McCree mains trying to keep the thread on the right track by discussing possible ways of bringing McCree back without being overpowering
>>344692979
>Stun reaper
>Make all the shots count
>Secondary fire can't headshot so no crit damage
>Land at most 5 shots, since the spread is so damn big you think Mcree arms are made of wet noodles
>Stun is over, can't hit in melee
>Even if you hit him with melee or roll away to recharge, he can just wraith form out and heal
>Literally be unable to kill reapers unless they're damaged
Yeah buff mcree, all chars feel special in some way except him
>>344708679
Wait why does she have seven...
what mcCree was supposed to be
>all around assault class, with emphasis on excelling at 1v1. perfectly accurate long range hitscan, close range shotgun like revolver fan, and a flashbang that can reset the situation for him, allowing him to devastate people he's flanked, or put an enemy flank back on even ground.
what he was in beta
>god tier at everything. 70 damage no falloff long range snipes, and a right click that instantly kills anything close enough to get hit by all the shots
what he was on release
>close range instant killer. flash into fan, enjoy the kill. better tankbuster than reaper. primary fire does terrible damage past point blank, only use is taking safe potshots, as it's better to fan at ranges where the primary is good.
what he is now
>bad all around. fan the hammer does less damage and is less consistent than just headshotting them. pirmary fire is accurate, but does very low damage past close range. has to try much harder than other characters to succeed, effectively reduced to being "soldier but far worse"
>>344707926
Snipers in every single game are cancer.
I find it easy to dal with Tracers as Junkrat. Stay in a little roofed area and lay a trap and mine, if they're a shit player once they see you they'll immediately hunt you down and step into a trap and mine
>nerf mcree
>roadhog loses his only true hard counter
didn't even realize it until i stepped into comp play and every team started stacking roadhogs. You can get as many Reapers, 76s, Pharas, or Junkrats on him as you want, they can't even touch him compared to what FOTH used to do
>>344692325
He's fun as fuck in low rank pubs but that's only due too Te other teams incompetence, he can shit damage if you are playing him right but all in all he needs work, I just personally find him fun :^)
>>344692325
>Remember playing Zen
>Sounds like fun
>Go into game
>I have to hit a phara four times while she's discorded, but healed by a Lucio
>She has to near miss my tiny movespeed body twice to kill me
>Enemy team has Pharas, Tracers, Reapers, and Genjis at all times
Why did I think I could do this?
>>344713783
Pharah is still a very strong pick against him, especially if she stays out of hook range.
>>344702217
unfortunately thats not reliable enough.
If you're just a milisecond too slow, she'll already have buffered recall.
And then after that she just will not get in your flash's range at all while still mowing you down.
>>344699447
> It makes no sense
Sure it does, Super is better then Awesome.
Um, get good at controlling some pixels on your screen from an videogame? Don't complain because someone killed you in a videogame? Try that
>played about two hours of competitive today
>started the day at rank 59
>in that time I won five games and lost easily over ten
>three of the five games I won had enemies leave so I got no experience
>I had at least three if not more golds per game and actually played the point
>still went down 5 ranks
This system is fucked.
>make FTH do bonus damage on enemies who are stunned by flashbang
>now his combo can actually kill without him being able to spam FTH + Roll on tanks for easy kills on fat heroes
there. fixed.
>>344716263
Could also decrease the spread. There are a number of ways to make Mcree relevant but not OP.
The one thing I've just been absolutely infuriated with is that about 25% of the time I hook someone with Roadhog they either go behind me or to my side. If it's a Reaper or McCree then they get a free kill because of it
>>344716436
Yep. It happens all the fucking time with Hanzo's, Lucios and Genjis too.
>>344716436
This is such fucking bullshit. There's no consistency to where someone I hook will end up. Sometimes they're right in front of me, sometimes, they're to the side, sometimes they're above me, sometimes they're FUCKING BEHIND ME.
It's impossible to hook+shotgun+melee combo reliably because any number of things can send someone you hook flying in a random direction.
>>344691465
I would say tracer since you can scare her to make she waste her shield and run but i dunno
I am new to this game
>>344699447
S is for Speed
McCree basically became the worst offense hero after he was nerfed. Reaper does the tank busting job so much easier than him and has a better time dealing with other offense heroes as well. And if you need a long range hero just go Soldier 76. McCree serves basically no use on a team now.
>>344699447
name a single game where S rank is below A
>>344717224
who cares about your lettit shit
the game doesnt even have proper servers with acceptable tick rates. Anyone who takes this game "serious" is a retarded blizzdrone and/or autistic tryhard
>>344700481
http://www.giantbomb.com/s-rank/3015-2962/games/
>>344717549
whoah man watch the memes
>>344717549
>who cares that certain classes are useless!
There's been 400 posts of people discussing McCree's changes and comparing other heroes and now you decide to come in and ruin it all.
>>344717739
you cannot have a proper discussion about who is what, when in the end the server is gonna pull a "favur of da shooter". Like honestly, if this were proper servers half the hooks roadhogs land wouldnt land and the other shit like dying behind walls because the server is slow wouldnt happen.
>>344717224
They're nerfing Reaper soon too so it should balance back out.
>tfw McCree is my favorite hero
Wish he was more rewarding. Maybe make maximum fall off damage 50 instead of 35?
>>344717886
That factually incorrect, don't start acting like your first post wasn't designed to shitpost. Even with server fuckery there are still classes who are undeniably stronger and better than some others.
>>344693843
Flashbang + Headshot kills Tracers every time
>>344717886
>you cannot have a proper discussion about who is what
entire thread disagrees
>the server is gonna pull a "favur of da shooter"
there's literally not a better alternative for a fast paced shooter, stop spouting memes and move onto a relevant thread
>half the hooks roadhogs land wouldnt land and the other shit like dying behind walls
it's either
>shooter aims at you, fires, you die (if they headshot you only) 0.05 seconds after passing the corner
or
>shooter aims at you, fires, misses because you were 0.05 seconds past the corner
when the death timer is 10 seconds with things like resurrections and teleports to battle with not that much distance to objectives, one is favourable over the other.
>>344718201
if the server didnt decide roadhogs hooks landed nobody would pick roadhog because they are easy to dodge, its just the server teleporting you back because
>muh favor
>>344691472
>There's no excuse to not be able to kill tracer after flashbanging her.
But you can?
Just LMB her in the head and she's dead
>>344715205
that's the problem, his hook seems to be bugged since it has way larger range than intended. As a phara i've been hooked at the absolute apex of my rocket boost from a roadhog from across half the map, even the kill cam showed that he was definitely out of range but still got the hook (so no lag/network problems)
But even if you manage to stay out of hook range, you take away her biggest threat against him. Her rockets are way too slow to be of any real threat, he can just strafe and hide somewhere to heal back up while you spam splash damage that does nothing more than tickle him.
>>344718438
You're ignoring Zenyatta being undeniably worse than Lucio and Mercy, Zarya being undeniably the best overall tank with the most counters to situations, Reaper being undeniably the best at tank killing, etc
None of that shit matters to what you are saying.
more importantly:
why the FUCK can reinhart slam you down with his Q while you are IN THE AIR as mercy/phara or any other character that can get air time.
This is fucking retarded
>>344718496
>Her rockets are way too slow to be of any real threat
there's people hitting tracers during blinks with rockets and you can't hit the fattest, slowest character in the game? I think this is a "you" problem
>>344689272
He's much more balanced now, still strong but doesn't feel completely fucking unfair. You just have to actually be a decent player and hit his left clicks now instead of pressing right click one time and killing everything.
>>344718591
im ignoring 2nd priority problems because smooth gameplay is more important and gives a much better picture about character balance.
>>344691465
pharah. zarya cant do much against her unless the pharah is hovering too close to be considered a good pharah
>>344718760
Except they're not going to change the tick rate so might as well discuss balance based on how the game already is. They've already made up excuse after excuse the last time people were asking about the tick rate.
Still shouldn't come into a perfectly fine thread demanding that 163 other people stop discussing balance.
>i can't spam right click and kill with 2 bullets
>i have to actually aim now like a revolver toting cowboy is supposed to
play characters with a shotgun then
>>344718970
>play characters with a shotgun then
Which is what people do because Reaper does everything McCree does but ten times better and easier
>>344718970
>I still don't know what I'm talking about but will post anyway without reading one of the thousands of threads detailing what the issue is
McCree cannot effectively do his job. McCree can still effectively do the job he's not supposed to do. If you're too retarded to understand this then stop posting.
>>344718949
then the whole game will stay a joke and "balance" isnt worth discussing, like i said. The devs arent taking it serious if you do, you are dumb.
>>344719231
Congrats on coming into a 467 post thread and calling everyone else but you dumb then. Want a medal?
>>344719334
popular =|= right
this isnt plebbit
>>344719392
Cool. No one cares. Go to the TF2 thread or something, they have anti-OW circlejerks every thread that you'd fit right in with.
>>344718625
it's not aiming that's the problem.
its the fact that one direct hit rocket can obliterate a tracer, but it takes 5 direct hits to kill a Roadhog (since IIRC phara's rockets do 120 damage on direct hit, and Roadhog has 600 health)
Her rockets are super slow, her time between shots is super slow, and even her reload is super slow. Which means that even with halfway decent aim and understanding of her rocket launcher (shoot where they're going not where they are etc..) that's still way too long to actually become a real threat to Roadhog.
Any decent player is going to take a rocket to the face and wise up, start strafing and making more unpredictable movements. A second shot and they're either near cover that they can use to heal or close enough to you to land a hook and kill you first. If neither of those things happen then by that time a mercy/lucio usually shows up and pockets them until they land enough shotgun sprays or can finally get a hook on you.
Roadhog's counter is quick bursts of high damage to eat through all of his health so it only takes one pot shot to finish the job. FOTH was the only reliable source that could do the job. Phara and Junkrat come close but they don't have the speed to do the job, which leaves a lot of wiggle room for a good roadhog to either escape or finish them off first.
>>344719630
its not a problem with pharah, its a problem with roadhog.
one shot kills, cant be killed unless a team concentrates on him, can pull any target he wants into his group, and has self heals.
Don't forget the hard hitting shotgun spread blast he has as well, you don't even need to aim it.
>>344719519
if you like the game so much you would try and fix it instead of leaving it broken. I think you are the one who should visit the overwatch hate threads.
>>344697639
This is Mccree's biggest problem. If you flashbang a jumping character (and everyone in this game bunnyhops 24/7), you get about .2 seconds to actually hit them when they land.
>>344719915
>its not a problem with pharah, its a problem with roadhog.
it definitely is, and i never really said that Phara was bad, just that she's not a direct counter to Roadhog like McCree was pre-nerf.
Without the power of FOTH, there's nothing really keeping Roadhog in check. It takes at least two dedicated players to get rid of a Roadhog that's smart enough to know how to press W, which throws off the entire team balance, because that means we're now down one player who's job it was to put pressure on the healers or keep the opponent's offense in check.
So he's been basically buffed by proxy.
Fuck leavers, seriously.
If you leave, you deserve to get banned forever.
>really close match for both teams
>we royally suck at defending
>we gotta defend the last point, if they take it they win
>a guy leaves from the other team
>WE GAIN NOTHING
Blizzard can't balance at all, they just cave to the noisiest whiners.
It's always been this way.
>waaah I can't kill Roadhog with Fan the hammer anymore
>McCree nerf was a mistake
McCree was never meant to destroy tanks, that's Reaper's job.
>>344722139
What is mcrees job? Because I can't think of anything he does that someone else doesn't do better.
>>344699447
Yu Yu Hakusho.
>>344722646
Kill Tracer and Genji
>>344722718
Unless you can get instant headshots on the tracer you will never kill her as mcree. And good luck killing genji period.
>>344718201
What? The tickrate thing is a serious issue. Game will always be a fuckfest until that's fixed.
Ironically right now we have a tickrate issue, and the fact that character balance is overall fucking dogshit and all over the place in the game at the same time.
>>344722775
Never played him so I have no idea how hard it is to kill them both
but that's literally the whole purpose of McCree
>>344718949
Balance isn't worth discussing in a """"competitive"""" game if the fucking tickrate isn't fixed first and foremost you degenerate. OW will never be taken seriously as a pro game until that point.
>>344722967
was*
Now he's just a hero with no niche to fill because there's no job he can do right now that others can't do better.
>>344704942
Found the low ranked player
A good tracer is a bitch to fight as McCree. Comes down to a lot of luck. They'll be smart and won't give you the opportunity to easily flashbang them.
If you miss the flashbang, you lose the fight.
If you hold onto the flashbang too long you lose the fight.
If you flashbang and miss the headshot you lose the fight.
The only reliable way to kill a Tracer as McCree is to land a headshot as she's dashing around and hope she wasn't at full health so that you outright kill her. If she lives the headshot and rewinds you may or may not have the opportunity to flashbang her depending on if she recalls within range of your Flashbang or not.
2 Tracers absolutely shit on McCree though. Nothing he can do there.
>>344722967
The ONLY way to kill a tracer is a headshot you line up in .5 seconds after the flashbang.
He has NO way to reliably kill genjis at all.
>>344697591
>Bad offense
>1 Headshot w/ discord orb does 135 dmg. 90 without
lmao ok.
>people who abuse roadhog thinks hes good
fuck this fat fuck
>>344697212
Reduce the spread on his current FtH, or give him back 5 damage per shot.
Reduce the cooldown on his roll, or have it be like Genji, where its cooldown is refreshed on kill.
McCree needs to do 90 dmg a shot with his left click.
From 70-35 to 90-45.
Headshot multiplier the same, 2x, so 180-90.
Just sit 4 seconds walking distance away from their heads and use your team as meat shields. The trick is just to land headshots and whittle down shields and the occasional kill one maybe two people with Dead Eye.
>>344723684
desu just reducing the spread would be fine.
>>344689272
Welcome to blizzard games.
I bet the beta was better balance than it is now.
>>344723821
It wasn't.
>>344689540
>hook tracer
>presses E to get out of jail free
>hook reaper
>presses E to get out of jail free
?
>>344691465
Pharah beats her pretty fine if you don't play into bubbles. Her laser range is very short and can't anti-air a floating Pharah, and it's a huge pain to airshot with bombs. All she can do is bubble and run, but spending bubble on a 1v1 isn't a very good use of a long-cooldown resource.
>>344696217
Insta-locking Hanzo's/Widow'ss/Genji's/Reapers are a clear indicator of whether or not you're gonna have a fun game.
>>344723684
Refresh good but instead of lowering the damage per shot just make all bullets equal and slow down FTH. Also roll during dead eye should be a thing so he doesn't just get blown up.
>playing tracer
>get hooked by roadhog
>spam E to blink away
>blink back in time to safety
>die from shotgun
>watch killcam
>never blinked
nice game blizzard
>>344723771
This is the best post in this thread. Why aren't you working for Blizzard?
If the enemy team has an annoying Genji, you're better off with Winston imho because Genji can't parry the Tesla gun and you can jump at and after him, also the barrier can protect you against his shuriken and stuff. He still might get away tho, good Genjis know their shit. He can't bother you that much without his sword tho.
McCree still works against Tracer, but you gotta either have fast reaction or good aim. I'm no good with him, so if there's a Tracer I'll either try and shoot her with Soldier76s rockets or leave her for someone with better aim. I've seen Junkrats tear arguably good Tracers apart, so I mostly rely on that.
>>344723771
>Being able to kill a full health Zenyatta with 2 body shots
NO
THANKS
>>344717909
>Nerfing Reaper
but why?
They should give McCree back his sharpshooter qualities that he had in the closed beta, but increase the recoil so you can't just be Widowermaker
>>344723959
Get better at Roadhog
I've been shit on as tracer even holding E by competent hogs who know when to fire post hook
>>344724279
Literally no one cares about that trash champ.
>increase rate of fire on fan
>decrease spread on fan
>slightly decrease ranged damage falloff on his left click
would mcree be fixed?
