Is Tree of Savior the only good mmorpg right now, despite its flaws? I've tried Tera and Blade & Soul and the first one is yet another WoW clone with gimmick combat while the latter is a clone of Tera.
>ToS
>good
I genuinely feel sorry for you. Usually, I make fun of people like you, but it's come to a point where even remotely appreciating or defending ToS leads me to believe there are some deep mental issues in people. Abusive relationships perhaps. I don't know.
In any case, I hope you'll solve everything.
>>342735748
This game could be good but it's fucking awful instead.
>>342736863
>ask a question
>immediately jumps to conclusions
>>342735748
>tera gimmick combat
But the combat is the only good thing about tera. Like I'm genuinely sad I'll never get an mmo the scale of wow with tera combat.
>>342735748
>pay to win Korean MMO
I'm a good goyim too.
>>342735748
Wasn't this game made by whoever made ragnarok?
>>342737562
From the creators who saw Ragnarok Online
>>342735748
>TERA's combat is a gimmick
Lolno it's the only redeeming factor of it outside ofelin
It's not a WoW Clone at all though. Blade And Soul is nothing like TERA as well. It's combat is shit.
you can play Warhammer Online on that ''Return of Reckoning'' private server.
>1000 + players
>almost no pvp bugs
bretty good
Moonlight blade and Revelation Online are the only good mmos right now.
ToS will survive, but just like Tera, fanservice will keep them afloat. Wankers love this shit, instead of adding real content and things to work for, they'll just spent all their resources into developing more and more cash shop goodness, and only the tryhards will bother with end game or grinding money to fuel their stupid expensive attributes.
>>342737837
That game is pretty shit
>>342737082
>Like I'm genuinely sad I'll never get an mmo the scale of wow with tera combat.
And for this I'm glad. What's the point of an action combat if:
>there are braindead quests where you can facetank most everything that you challenge at the recommended progression point
>you have to walk more than fight
>you have to contest shared mobs as resources
>mobs are in extremely limited quantities instead of being a fun killfest with hard mobs everywhere
>mobs come in one by one, there is never one difficult situation to handle at any point during the leveling
>there is (or there was when I played) an incredibly strong level scaling difference, making that the single most influential factor in the game. no need to say this is cancerous in an action game where reflexes and skill should trump everything, yet if a BAM is 5 levels above you? you deal no damage, so enjoy hitting them for 20 minutes. how about actual difficulty scaling and not raw numbers?
Etc
Effectively speaking, Tera shits the bed exactly for wanting to be a WoW-style MMO, which is what they should have aimed to get away from ENTIRELY. The entirety of the leveling process becomes a drag where the game may as well be autotarget or turn based, it doesn't matter at all.
Sure is fun playing such an "action" game.
Instead, Tera is "literally WoW but the combat engine is different, often making no impact". No thanks. Into the trash it goes.
>>342738418
why?
FFXIV is literally the only MMO that's thriving right now. The second expansion is going to be announced in October at FanFest. 4 years of service and still no server merges or closures like other failed MMOs.
>>342735748
Got around 150 before I got fed up with how shittily IMC handles the game and due to every friend quitting due to the same issues.
I don't know why there's even an option to select Swordsmen when they contribute nothing due to god awful balancing that is insanely slanted towards parties of Mages and Archers with a cleric or two to support.
The game is an unoptimized fucking mess, my system is pretty decent and gets like 20 fps on channel 1 Klaipeda and during some dungeons. A system with an overclocked I7 5820k and a 980ti should not be getting 20 fps on it. They barely have done anything on it to fix it.
The company keeps trying to curb bots and spammers, but ends up hurting the normal players instead with how everything is so shittily handled in the auction house, trading etc.
The pings fluctuate so badly during the day that you can still get instances of the quests taking longer to actually turn in than it did to do the damn quest.
I've parked my guy and I'm sitting on around 8 months of premium tokens, if they fix the game i'll come back but i'm not holding my breath for it.
>Good
Why would you willingly play a game with that many BRs?
>>342740006
>over a third of the players are Huemonkeys
HOW
Elder Scrolls Online is epic.Combat is cool.
Epic quests with no kill x of that shit.Actually immersive quests and very good story.
Good PvP Zerging on castles i guess.
PvE dungeons are amaze!
Stealing,Assassination,crafting,exploring...literally everything.
I played countless MMORPG games,and there is none that even slightly compare.
>it's another generic Korean MMO
Why do you fags keep falling for this meme?
Vanilla WoW Private servers are doing pretty well too atm. Tons of players and a number of servers to choose from.
>>342735748
I remember how everyone was hyped as shit for this game, it was fun to see their souls get crushed when 90% of sane people dropped the hype after they saw the nexon logo.
>>342735748
>Make the same post with the same image in a TERA thread an hour ago
>Get called a retard
>"Better make my own thread instead!"
>>342740727
The thread was dying and I didn't see anyone spouting retard anywhere, so nice headcanon.
no good mmos exist
>>342740563
You don't understand, this was supposed to be the savior of MMOs
>>342738604
>you have to contest shared mobs as resources
I liked this in an open-pvp server because it was one way to facilitate the pvp.
When my group went to kill a boss mob and found another group already waiting, we got sick of waiting for the boss and attacked the others so we wouldn't have to wait twice as long. It was a lot more fun than pve or organised pvp. Even during the packed 1st week, you could go from one moment where you are co-operating with players all the way to absolute chaos with bystanders being drawn into the brawl.
I agree with your other points though. Level scaling is especially cancerous.
>>342739837
>all this FFXIV shill forgetting the game already failed once and had to literally be destroyed
This game is surviving for the same reason KOTOR is surviving,t he fanbase, it doesn't make it good.
>>342741862
this is exactly what I miss from RO. while its a shitty shell of its former self now, back then there were pretty much no instances. All the areas, dungeons, and bosses were shared, which made the game feel more alive to me. It was utter madness back when iRO beta where places like Glast Heim had so many people running around that monsters would be respawning by the droves every second.
You just don't get that in MMOs anymore.
>>342742036
>and had to literally be destroyed
and once destroyed it was rebuilt to be a fucking wow clone
fucking pathetic
1.0 was way more interesting even if it was botched, yoshi-p is a fucking hack
>>342742203
>1.0 was way more interesting
compare this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW5DnpidMiY
to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBmilZaq098
1.0 sucked ass mechanically.
>>342740095
Ragnarok was VERY popular around here.
>>342735748
>ToS
>good
You're not scamming more people into buying this shitty game, fuck off retard
>>342741127
Secret World
eve online
ffxiv is probably second but i don't know if they ever fixed the shitshow of the 3.0 patch
>>342738842
The combat has too little impact. Most hots are stronger than dots which makes it easy to keep people alive and draws out fights.
>>342741127
Anarchy online was really good, haven't played it in years though.
>>342737052
>Gets read like a book
>Doesn't even try to deny the accusations
ToS is such a colossal failure. Having brain damage is pretty much required in order to defend it
>>342742036
KOTOR is surviving because it went F2P, FF14 is still requires a mandatory sub fee.
>>342735748
It's time to give up on mmorpgs friend.
>>342742448
It's free now but I agree. The only person I know who plays ToS is my brother who still plays WoW so he can orbit a female. It's a game for mental retards.
>>342735748
Fuck their "servers". Ping constantly jumps up and down. No it's not my internet, go on /vg/ and ask thm and they'll give you the same answer
>>342739837
>thriving
>poor sales
>no subs
ha no
FFXI is the best MMO out there right now, you can say it went to shit after ToAU if you want but now that MMOs are just straight dying and every modern MMO just wants to mimic the shitty stagnant MMOs, going back to some oldschool shit like XI is the cure for what ails you
>>342735748
Just play single player stuff like XCX or FF12. They give you the feel of an MMO better than MMOs these days.
Private RO servers are your only hope.
>>342743162
The net code is very shit. It feels like a janky flash game.
>>342740006
How the fuck does that graph work
How can there be more players than owners
>>342740725
Nexon wasn't the problem though, they only deal with the game in Korea. It just ends up that IMC are huge jews just like Nexon. In fact, they seem to be even worse because at least Nexon actually understands they need to spend some money to make the game run properly where as IMC refuses to put any money into the game and is just trying to milk retards out of any money they can get.
>>342735748
PSO2>ToS
Wait, why do people find ToS bad? What did I miss?
>>342743297
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIV:_A_Realm_Reborn
>Square Enix executives attributed the company's return to profitability in part to the game's strong sales and subscriber base, reaching a cumulative total of 5 million accounts created as of July 2015. Following an extremely poor fiscal year 2013, Square Enix executives commended the game's sales and subscriptions for its role in returning the company to profitability in 2014.[135] As of August 2015 the game had over 5 million registered accounts, a figure which excludes free trial members.[136] Yoshida has repeatedly emphasized that the robust success of A Realm Reborn was due to its traditional monthly subscription model.[137] He sees the free-to-play model as an unreliable source of income predicated on devoting a lot of development resources to monthly consumable or cosmetic items in order to maintain profitability, leaving little time left for higher quality story and battle content.[64] He also disclosed that over 80% of players are satisfied with the subscription model and theorized that this is due to players' confidence in a steady stream of quality content because of their subscription.[64][138][139] With the traditional model, the player base grows over time as people see the game expand, unlike a free-to-play game which can boast a huge initial player base which changes dramatically in size and revenue from month to month.[137] Yoshida has no plans to change to a free-to-play model in the near future.[138]
>>342735748
Wait a few days for Riders of Icarus. I don't have much hope for it but its worth a try since everything else is so bad
>>342737052
The fact that you even called ToS good justifies his post. ToS is in one of the worst states an MMO has ever been in and was a bigger let down than GW2.
>>342743742
>accounts created
That's one huge paragraph of mental gymnastics.
>>342743889
>excluding free trial members
that means at least 5 million purchases was made for the game.
>>342742361
Theres more to an MMO than gameplay, and fast cuhrazy action isnt always the answer.
>>342743596
Nothing, I fixed nothing!
>>342743970
5 million game purchases is nothing for an MMO, active subs is whats important. WoW box purchases probably outnumber the world's population by now. Thats why we dont use purchases as a metric for activity.
>>342743987
elaborate
>>342743970
Except it isn't, since most of those accounts were transferred over from 1.0 aka when you could make multiple accounts for free.
>>342735748
>ToS
>Good
It doesn't help when you post the class with the worst solo experience.
>>342737082
Play Wildstar
>b-but it's not identical!!!
it's what you're asking for
>>342744258
>mmorpg
>solo experience
kys my dude
>>342744142
He's talking about fanservice Anon.
>>342744126
Latest lodestone census puts the game at 700k active subs.
>>342744182
The metric doesn't count 1.0 transfers, check SE's financial quarter reports on their investor page.
>ToS
>Good
Shittiest bait thread in /v/ story and people still reply to it. Kill yourself OP.
>>342737562
No, it's from people who liked RO art style and mimicked it to bait people who enjoyed that art style to play their shitty attempt. It's like Tencent Overwatch, TF2, Dota 2, etc. Can't make a good game? Copy someone else and fail at it, HARD, misunderstanding simple concepts like cards. Seriously, if there is any definite proof people have NEVER played RO is the new boss card system.
>Well, let's make situational cards like RO, rite??
>While also making it character bound rather than item bound (so you can't swap stun weps or sell specialized items like triple saharic weps and whatnot)
>And make it lose card EXP when you remove them
>While also making them harder to obtain
Seriously, anyone that is still playing this crap deserve every 'loading screen patch', 'removed features/more restrictions because RMT and bots' and server unstability. If you paid, even worse, you deserve compulsory euthanasia.
>>342744415
>The metric doesn't count 1.0 transfers
It doesn't say that. It just says that there's 5 million accounts created which could have come from anywhere.
>>342744357
>questfest that remains that way till 200+ (where in ktos there already are even more quest to solo till 240+)
>cross server missions
>random parties being better than premade
Rather than kys, I'll advise you to actually boot ToS.
>>342744496
5 million paid accounts created after ARR's release, as said in their finance reports. You can go check it yourself, I'm not spoonfeeding your lazy jit ass.
>>342744428
dota 2 is far better than dota 1 ever was though.
TF2 at its prime was arguably more fun than classic too. What the fuck are you smoking?
>>342744357
>Having anyone to play with before 200 if you roll a support
yeah good luck with that
>>342744654
Yes, Tencent made TF2 and Dota 2.
You must be 18 or above to post on 4chan.
>>342744639
>>342744686
It's an MMORPG. There's tons of people to play with. Dummies.
>>342742203
>>342742361
How the fuck can people say with a straight face that 1.0 was better? It was game design gone horribly wrong.
>>342742594
>hots are stronger than dots
did you even play in T4?
>>342744639
Nah, it said no such thing.
>>342744769
>ToS
>Having players
Does anyone have the 0.12 FPS screenshot with the entire Korean server on one field boss?
>before game is released
>"GUYS THERE ARE 80 CLASSES!!!"
>game is open beta
>"guys it seems its still holy trinity so party freedom isn't that great"
>game is released
>"guys, it seems it will be only 2 classes from each branch viable, but at least that is a good ratio i guess"
>itos with two months lifetime
>"ok nevermind, there are these 5 builds over all classes, build anything else and you're out, no swordsmen"
>>342744126
>5 million game purchases is nothing for an MMO
what the fuck?
>>342744974
>MMORPG
>yes clearly there's nobody playing this game I could possibly team up with and therefor the game should cater to my warped expectations
>>342744783
people that came directly from FFXI liked parts of 1.0 cause it felt like FFXI, but I agree, it was largely shit, and even the FFXI parts of it didn't really save it, ARR was all around better, but the game got graphically downgraded and the animations got butchered from 1.0.
I'm probably most salty about those animations, all the races had different combat animations and idles and shit and no its just all the same, they also removed abilities from 1.0 that were even more straight homage to FFXI, like simian thrash which was basically asuran fists. Shit sucks
>>342745086
But nobody outside of /tosg/ is that strict about party comp.
>>342745263
You forgot to mention that ARR fixed close to nothing and that it's garbage.
>>342745383
It must have done something right if it's the 2nd most subscribed MMO right now.
>b-but mental gymnastics!
>>342742571
Pretty much this, going by more mainstream options.
>>342745338
Yes, everyone outside of /tosg/ are builds that drop the game once hitting 232 :-(
But hey, still top 30 on Steam. :-)
>>342740006
HUE
>>342737837
Downloading the game. Seems fun, thanks anon
>>342742571
3.2 saved the raiding scene and 3.3 fixed crafting
>>342742036
>>The reason this MMORPG is surviving is because of the players playing it
???????? NO SHIT SHERLOCK WOW YOU'RE DUMB
>>342745513
http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/2/7480177/square-enix-final-fantasy-14-final-fantasy-11-dragon-quest-10-subscribers
I CHOOSE YOU POLYGON
>>342745537
The devs didnt develop the game around only a handful of class setups being viable at high level. I imagine you guys are way exaggerating the disparity between the best/worst.
>>342735748
Vindictus is great despite the company it's run by.
>>342745791
Not really, as 200+ content gets exponentially hard (spion, damage sponges, wb with HP on ull levels), if your build is even a bit below optimal, you will get fucked hard. People who have different/unique builds are getting carried or are PvP only and thus are OK with being shit.
But if you really don't believe that, more power to you, having actually sunk hours to get 250 on this trash gave me enough of the 'Korean Dev' experience for my whole life, I don't need to put any other dime on it, either.
>>342735748
I like both RIFT and Wildstar
the former feels like WoW pre-MoP (except with bards and a more interesting skill system), and the latter has a slightly more actiony combat system ala TERA while not having TERAble quests and grind
I hear good stuff about FFXIV, but I just can't justify paying a subscription to play an MMO anymore
>>342745578
make sure you check the forums for more info and shit
>>342745513
Why can't FFXIV be good? It's so polished. Cute characters. Lots of nostalgia points. Really good visuals.
Core gameplay is fucking ass though. Plus they ruined the crafting. And let's not forget how much they try to jew you on bankspace and housing.
God damnit, there's so much I want to love about it but it's so not worth it.
>>342745628
>Jan 2015
>>342746415
>implying they got 5.5 million subs in the space of a year
hahaa
>>342746314
The only thing I agree with is bank space but supposedly thats changing in 3.4 to some extent. Housing is fine. Its only an issue on 1-2 full servers. You are not entitled to housing. It is not content.
>>342746517
>housing is not content
>>342745986
Isn't Vindictus pretty much dead due to all pay2win or whatever?
>>342746517
>You are not entitled to housing. It is not content.
Neck yourself my man. Just like retainers the 'limitations' of the system is there for the company to save money on space, not for any benefit to the players through immersion or status or whatever excuse. With the amount of games that have truly great housing systems, XIV - as good as it's trying to be - has no reason to be this awful.
>>342744415
No, the last census put them closer to 600k and it's still dropping subs like flies, it had a 140k drop in players from the last census. That census also counts active characters, not active accounts, which means it includes alts. Yes, plenty of people use alts enough to be counted as active, and there are enough alts fucking around to put their real sub numbers closer to 500k active subs or below.
The only reason that piece of shit is alive if because of autistic weeabootards buying shit from the cash shop, it sure as shit isn't due to its sub numbers or boxed/digital copy sales, especially when the base game goes for $10 or even less practically every fucking day.
>>342746512
The game saw a huge rise of players when Heavensward came out and WoW dropped the ball so hard with WoD.
>>342746314
Core gameplay works though. Also, they fixed crafting months ago dude.
>>342747115
500k subs is more than any other MMO right now besides WoW you retard.
>>342744639
No, it had 550k active subs shortly after launch in 2013, and 600k around 2014, they stopped giving concrete numbers after that. The last time they gave some sort of figure was in 2015 when they lumped it with DQX and FFXI and said all their MMOs COMBINED had less than 1 million subs total, later on they just said their MMO division was doing "favorably".
5.5 million retards paying for a cheap as shit registration key means fuckall for an MMO, when the game can't retain even 1 million of them and never actually reached close to 1 million, always sitting at 600k subs at its best.
>>342746854
The occasional event and boss/season updates keep it kicking, though just barely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwL3JG9sAyQ
>>342740006
There is a South America server. You don't need to play on it. Only a bunch of BRs with inferiority complex plays at the North American Servers.
>>342747472
Except it doesn't mean shit when other MMOs have far more active players and are more profitable due to this, subs mean jackshit especially with a laughable 500k active players at best and only 30% of them doing endgame, which is mediocre by even F2P standards. Which is why this piece of shit lives only from cash shop trash and not subs.
>>342747086
Because its clearly by design to be limited. Their technical limitation bullshit is a fake excuse. They imagined housing to be something prestigious. Of course that becomes a problem when you have people who buy houses on alts. This could have been partly resolved not by just adding tons of wards but instead
>Limiting housing to 1 per account
>Having some kind of unrelated upkeep in game to maintain the house or a gil fee
>Preventing the player from relinquishing a plot for X amount of months after purchasing one to prevent flippers
>>342747538
In one of the live letters, the devs showed statistics about raid clears. At least 500k characters have cleared Alexander Gordias story. The numbers are obviously higher now. It's safe to assume the game is doing well.
>>342747538
Why do people just automatically assume numbers go down instead of up when numbers arent reported? Its not always a conspiracy.
>>342747772
>when other MMOs have far more active players
like?
every fucking MMO besides WoW and FFXIV is dead.
>>342745986
hey buddy stop posting my webms
>>342747284
Nah, its sales and subs don't support that claim.
test
>>342748112
how do you know? do you work for square enix?
>>342747981
Because numbers DO go down, this is the census before the most recent one and shows a clear drop in active characters, 140k active characters stopped being active. MMOs only report favorable numbers, even WoW stopped reporting subs due to also performing like shit.
>>342748285
Subs aren't something you hide unless you don't have any.
>>342747981
It's just some retarded shitposter who can't let go that FFXI died because of FFXIV. He keeps entering FFXIV threads on /v/ just to say the game is dead yet provides no proof whatsoever other than vague data from 2014.
>>342736863
/thread
>>342746314
Because it's a single player game, not an MMO. Monster Hunter has more co-op than 14.
>>342748021
Even BnS, TOR and TESO have more active players than XIV, it's laughable and pathetic.
>>342748448
Revealing subs could also harm your game, see WoW.
>>342747750
I'm not sure if I should be glad or not about choosing SA.
The server won't die anytime soon for sure, but the hues man.
If you really need something out of them most can speak english good enough but it feels weird.
I like the game and the company behind it, I'm just so disappointed with both.
I was looking forward to both this and SF5. Guess how I still feel.
>>342736863
This post is correct, if you want further proof just look at tosg on /vg/ they have severe mental issues.
>>342748592
That's a fancy way of agreeing with me.
>>342748523
[citation needed]
>>342736863
FPBP
>>342748678
you have reading comprehension issues, I'm implying that a game could have tons of subs but once they start dropping people won't stop shitposting about it to the point where people won't join the game because "it's dying".
Ragnarok Online is my favorite MMO ever.
I was unable to play this for more than 25 minutes.
I agree with
>>342736863
So, how is it? I've played on the founder server, but I haven't touched the game in quite some time. Did they fixed the biggest issues like restricted trading, bots fucking everywhere and insanely high prices in cash shop (especially token price)? Not to mention too linear locations, not enough dungeons and stuff like that, but I guess these kind of things can't be fixed in such short amount of time.
>>342748518
how do you get past the main story without co-op?
>>342748406
>Unofficial research done by some random guy based off achievements not everyone is going to have at the time
>>342748783
Nah, the only reason they wouldn't release sub numbers is if they didn't have subs.
>>342735748
>ToS
>good
fucking bait threads when will they end
>>342748975
By that conclusion, PSO2 and FFXI were hardcore flops.
>>342749058
We know XI's sub numbers though.
>>342749135
XI only reported accounts created, not active subs.
I played the beta and liked it expect for the BRs and server issues. i can't play it now though because they are not letting in "new" players.
>>342748680
Fuck off Squeenixshill.
http://www.tentonhammer.com/news/blade-soul-hits-1-million-active-players-online-right-after-launch
>>342749195
And we still know the sub numbers.
>>342749272
except you don't.
>>342738013
the GLORIOUS ERA OF CHINESE MMORPGS ARE HERE. NI HAO MOTHER FUCKERS
>>342745604
>>342747380
How has XIV fixed crafting? The only things that they really did was backpedal and allow materia to be attached to dungeon / raid gear that isn't the top of the line, in order for Yoshi to compensate for overtuning Alex Savage, as well as finally threw in crafting dailies so lazy asses can get easy omnicrafting, until they're screwed over by having to farm weekly-limited crafting tomes on top of regular limited tomes.
>>342749342
Two seconds in google my dude.
>>342749271
>7 million accounts created
>Comparing a F2P launch to a sub only MMO.
>>342749436
google only shows accounts created
also,
http://www.siliconera.com/2013/11/06/final-fantasy-xiv-paid-subscribers-already-exceeded-final-fantasy-xis-peak/
>>342735748
Tree of Savior is a pretty good game, but the game parts make it bad. If it wasn't for that it'd be perfect.
>>342735748
>you can't trade with players unless you pay
>"It's to prevent bots!" as an excuse to it
>good
>"What do you mean you can't pay for it!HAHA YOU POOR OR WHAT?"
BR subhuman pls go
>>342749565
Keep trying newfriend.
>>342749604
you already got blown the fuck out, I win you lose.
>>342748826
I dunno what the issues with the trading were on the founder server, but you can trade shit no problem after lv40 now (stupid new rule)
If both trades have token activated it's k, if one or neither have the traded items will become untradeable.
Bots seem to be going down slowly but probably resurge for a while now that the servers are open
Cash shop is still expensive but tokens are now half price (99tp / 7$), it's something I guess.
You got many dungeons and instanced shit to do, but in the end they just serve for more grinding.
Have fun.
>>342749240
The servers are open again, anyone can join since yesterday I think.
>>342749446
>it's only ok when Squeenix does it
TESO doesn't have a subscription, that means 7 million potential active characters that can be playing at any time, BnS is F2P which means more active characters without an entry fee. XIV might have 5.5 million accounts created, but it's retention rate is pathetic with only 500k active players at best.
Kill yourself Squeenix shill
>>342749707
You don't even know how to google.
>>342749417
Red scrips are easier to get, new crafter gear isn't job exclusive, recipes give you more per mats, mog tribe hands out craft/gather materia and is a good way to level crafters, pretty much every complaint people had in 3.0 about crafting was fixed.
>>342749884
show me then
>>342749865
ESO doesn't have 7 million active characters and BnS is dead as fuck atm.
>>342749708
Nice. I didn't check it for a while because of the steam sale.
>>342750019
I don't spoodfeed newfriend summerbro.
>>342735748
>Tree of Restrictions
>Tree of Q&A where devs specifically state we will solving this issue in kToS but we have no plans to fix it in iToS
>Tree of you HAVE TO roll Wiz3Ele3Lock or Fletcher3 to just have to be considered as a DPS
>Tree of Why just not removing the whole swordman class tree?No dps, no dupport and tanking isn't mandatory in any part of the game
>Tree of Guild Events not working properlu
>Tree of no rewarded or ranked PvP. Why even PvP at 1 fps slideshow?
>Tree of 2 weeks minimun wait time before someone respond to a ticket
Can go on but i got bored
Tree of Savior is easily one of the worst MMO ever managed.
The concept behind and the idea are very good but IMC is absolute incompetent and retarded beyond salvation.
>>342750113
okay so you don't know how to google then, thanks.
>>342750269
I told you. Two seconds in google.
>>342750019
It still has sold 2 million more copies than XIV, and any of those 7 million players can return and be active at any time. Good luck convincing anyone with half a brain to resub for a contentless patch or even sub after their free 30 day trial expires, especially all the recent sale newfags that will drop the game before even reaching halfway through their free time. I'm sure those $5 they paid will bring lots of profit to Squeenix.
>>342750318
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=FFXI+subscriber+numbers
Tree of JUST
>>342750464
The next step is more important: finding the information you need. Have a look, summerman.
>>342750407
t. salty cuck
>>342750632
t. autistic Squeenixshill
>>342750631
you're a dumbass
if you reply to me again, you only confirm it.
>>342750632
>not knowing that nep is in 11 layers of irony
Fuck off Reddit Discord shitters.
How long until Koreans save the MMO market?
>2016
>Trusting koreans to make a good mmo.
>>342745338
It's the other way around
People outside /tosg/ are even more strict
>hey guys i am a swordman without peltasta can i join?
>no, fuck off retard. go waste someone else time.
>>342735748
tos is ass
>>342735748
Eve and WoW are stillthe interchangeable 1st and 2nd. Depends if you prefer sci-fi in space or fantasy with a great lore
>>342747926
>characters
When I played WoW I raided with 4 characters, all well geared and capable of contributing to the current raid tier.
What about actual paying subscribers? Even accounting for there being a (shit) class system, there would still be plqyers playing as different races.
>>342751104
There's no point in alts in FFXIV, it's actually a detriment due to how cross class skills and the main story works.
>>342751067
FFXI shits all over WoW
>>342737837
why not make a 1000+ private server for Dark Age of Camelot instead? It's a much better game.
>>342751252
FF11 was the poor man's Everquest dumbed down for PS2 and weaboo fucks.
>>342751252
>great lore
>>342751380
Meanwhile FF14 is the poor man's WoW dumbed down for PS3 and weeaboo cucks.
>>342751380
It's also the best game ever made.
Whatever happened to Ragnarok 2 anyways?
>>342735748
>Is Tree of Savior the only good mmorpg right now,
(You)
IMC deserve bankrupt
I would actully like Nexon to take over iToS
>>342751553
I think they're making "Ragnarok 2" for the third time, now a mobile game.
>>342735748
Hell, even maplestory has more team related stuff instead only singleplayer stuff and that is much saying right now.
>>342748523
BnS, TOR, and TESO aren't even on the map anymore.
>>342751380
Wow feels like a Korean knock-off MMO by comparison, which makes sense I guess as its what they were knocking off. Everything is ugly and the systems, UI and quest structure feel so unpolished. There's no sense of immersion, every quest is "Kill/collect [X]" for [Y] NPC you talk to once. Dungeons/Raids were easy, barely on the same level of the complexity, party composition, strategy/planning and management, etc. as a basic exp party in FFXI. Everything dies in 10 seconds, even named monsters are a joke and offer littl;e/no challenge if you're not alone, you auto-heal after every fight, aggro lasts for all of 30 feet and then they fuck off, I could go on.
>>342751502
and it's more successful than FF11 and a better game too.
>>342751409
FFXI has a great world and story. Better than most of the actual mainline FF games. Quests aren't told to you with a single paragraph of text, you have actual cutscenes and NPCs with personality beyond that of a cardboard cut-out.
>>342751991
FFXI is SE's most profitable game ever, so that's not even close to being true. It's over 14 years old and is still collecting sub fees.
Mabinogi, bitch.
>>342751252
If that was true it would of held better numbers.
FFXI was fun at the time but was got destroyed by the superior game. Like FF14, it only had a playerbase cause of the FFpaint. Remove the final fantasy theme and none would of player 11 or 14. Brand loyalty is a thing.
>>342749708
No trading without a token at all and even with a token you could trade only 30 times a month. That was stupid as hell, it even prevented people from sharing potions and other stuff when partying. If this stupid restriction is not present, it's definetely a step in the right direction.
>>342752138
Wait a minute that symbol...
So talking about dead MMOs.
What happened with tibia?
>>342752176
>If that was true it would of held better numbers.
CoD confirmed for best shooter ever :^)
Black Desert is the only good MMO right now.
>>342752210
>tfw i had to refuse trading with friends because near trade limit
>>342751067
Who is this semen demon?
>>342752358
Black Desert is literally a barren desert right now. Only PVP NEETS still play it.
>>342752176
>remove the final fantasy theme and nobody would play 11 or 14
I fucking wish, wowrefugees are the worst
>>342752165
Again, FFXI is SE's most profitable FF game ever. FFXIV having a higher peak subscription count doesn't automatically change that, FFXI has been collecting sub fees for a decade and a half while XIV floundered for a few years and had to be rebooted. It might overtake XI in a few years if it keeps its subscribers but again it has not made as much money as XI has.
>http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/24/the-most-profitable-final-fantasy-of-all-time-is
>>342752358
black desert isn't even better than what it's imitating
>>342744974
delivering from the source
HINT: Everyone who is petrified crashed and/or had their game freeze.
>>342735748
>while the latter is a clone of Tera.
But Blade and Soul came out before Tera.
>>342752725
Asian MMOs are all the same. So bad.
>>342752725
what happens when you have other players with you?
do you have to wait through the entire animation everytime you do that?
>>342752725
>Having to sit through that animation every time you want to use that spell
Fucking cancer
>>342752696
XIV doesn't have subs though, so XI is basically king forever.
>>342752696
>Again, FFXI is SE's most profitable FF game ever
no fucking way. i refuse to believe this. where are the numbers?
>>342735748
That's not black desert
>>342735748
It's a piece of shit game infested with piece of shit BRs and ERPers it's shit
>>342752889
It's a "Hold" skill. Only you are in the animation while your allies are free to wail on the enemies all they want.
>>342752924
see above. It's her only skill like that and it has a 20 minute cooldown
>>342752654
>tfw when wowrefugees don't know shit about party composition or roles and constantly fuck shit up by being terrible
>>342753056
>All those bots
>>342753046
ERP and hangouts with school costume IS end game content
Atleast it works
>>342752954
>Square Enix’s CEO Yoichi Wada told an audience at VanaFest 2012 (which celebrates Final Fantasy’s MMO foray) that “looking at profitability [for Square Enix], [Final Fantasy XI is at] the top of all past Final Fantasy games.”
No numbers in the interview but the CEO is flat-out stating it on-record, so that's solid enough proof. The game had been around for over a decade at the time this was published and has always required a $13/month sub fee from every player, still does now.
>>342753056
>look guys the main quest hub on one server has some bots
>>342753227
>>342753320
ayy lmao
>>342753414
>ayy lmao
wrong meme summerbummer
>>342753227
(you)
>>342752828
also for anyone caring: The korean players don't do the main quest, they just do the daily dungeons of 5 (3 on iTOS) every day until they reach a point where you can grind due to faulty fuckups.
>>342743374
FFXI is almost as much a shell of its former self as all the old RO private servers are. Anyone woh goes back to XI will just feel depressed as most of the population and by extension all but 3-10 zones in the game are completely empty, its just damn sad anon. Specially for those poor souls who arent on one of the 3 servers with an actual population
>>342753056
>leave the city
>The game is completely empty
Don't fucking lie and say it isn't either. I played that game for over a year.
>>342753298
>>2012 quote
I need current numbers anon.
I honestly don't understand how ffxiv is as popular as it is. When I played the beta I was bored to death. I didn't even make it to lvl 20.
But it's an mmo with a box price and sub fee yet it's still doing well. I don't get it. It can't just be the final fantasy name, TOR wasn't saved by it's brand afterall. ffxiv fags pls explain yourselves.
>>342753056
Gonna assume that's Balmung or a Legacy server.
I transfer to Excaliber myself. While the numbers are lower, I'm having more fun as 80% of the people here are not folks that just RP, then attempt to play end game and bitch on how everything needs a nerf.
Looking at you, anit-Ozma fuckers.
>>342753556
But that is literally every MMO. Nobody cares to explore because there is no point. Guild Wars 2 tried to change this but still failed. MMOs are a shitty genre.
>>342753056
>>342753556
dead game
>>342753715
That's why patrician mmos follow an instanced dungeon format
>>342753687
>I honestly don't understand how ffxiv is as popular as it is.
Because it isn't
>When I played the beta I was bored to death. I didn't even make it to lvl 20.
Because it's shit.
>But it's an mmo with a box price and sub fee yet it's still doing well. I don't get it.
Because it isn't.
>ffxiv fags pls explain yourselves.
They can't.
>>342753540
I fucking hate private servers with such an angst
>okay so we have this perfect opportunity to remake what we loved
>lets make 5000 different variations with 30 on each of them
>but if there's only one server lets make sure its the shittiest it could possibly be (I'm looking at you, playtrickster you fucking chink jews)
>>342753556
Because most of the game doesn't have a part to play with the maps unless it's for grinding levels. Even then there's only a few places good for that. That's where you'll sometimes find a big group of people going back and forth.
The rest are spamming dungeons or crafting.
>>342752828
>FPS 0.21
Every fucking timeI still having some hopes on this, pls IMC move your ass
>>342753556
I see a shit ton of people outside doing FATEs for leveling or relic on my server, also hunts are a big deal.
>>342753831
Yup. Games like Vindictus, Phantasy Star and Warframe are all better than any traditional MMO. They cut the majority of the crap and go directly into the good stuff which is grinding and social aspects. Lets be honest thats why anyone play MMOs.
>>342754087
This guy gets it
>>342753998
Nexon might have done something, IMC? never.
>>342753715
The problem FFXIV has is that it's got a shiny coat of paint, but underneath is the most boring and generic experience ever fucking conceived. Not only is it a generic themepark MMO with slow and uninteresting combat, but the main story quest is REQUIRED to actually progress. The endgame grind is horribly bland and generic and generally just revolves around spending a couple months logging in to do roulettes and then idling. You queue up into your dungeons, nobody fucking talks it's like you're running with fucking NPCs. You go out into the world and generally you run into either people gathering (often bots) and occasionally if you go to the right spot you see people fate grinding, but 90% of the game outside of the cities is fucking empty.
Some of the content looks cool/flashy but there is very little depth to most of the mechanics, even at the highest level. It can look really nice from the outside but once you get into it, it ends up feeling like most of the game is an obligation you need to fulfill because you're paying a fucking monthly sub. And then you go back to idling and circlejerking with your FC (the only people that ever even want to bother holding a conversation) and shitposting in the cancerous general.
Yes, FFXIVs problems are problems that tons of MMOs have. But FFXIV has all those problems. It's like a blend of every generic and bland element of MMOs rolled up into one.
>>342753865
Atleast for RO it wasnt a bad deal, vanilla RO was shit, if only because we got updates months after kro got them, not to mention the stability was garbage for awhile. But after 10+ yrs, its really just an excuse to cashgrab for alot of them.
>>342754260
Is that game still active? I never got to play it because region block.
>>342753998
here's the fps a second later
>>342754087
>warframe
>good
Oh yeah I fucking love that grindwall and wait-or-paywall, game of the year 10/10 its like farmville but with more waiting
>>342753687
1.) A lot of fan service to older FF games, which many fans of FF enjoy.
2.) Every three months there's a decent patch/update, with every 1.5 months there's a minor one with surprises sometimes within them.
3.) Most, if not all, promises they've stated about the game have come true. Which is a big thing, when people like guild wars 2 went through so many changes before being released, along with lying a fair bit. . .and you have control of most end game stuff due to being able to BUY GOLD on the market.
I myself loved FF14 and have been with it since the beta. It has pros and cons, but it's been chill to play with friends and hang out while playing the game.
>>342753831
>>342754087
>>342754260
No fuck you. This is the exact opposite of the truth. Why even call it an MMO if all it has is a lobby and fucking instanced dungeons. Old MMOs used to be fucking open world with almost no instances and you had to actually fucking interact and do shit with other people to get anything done. Which is the whole fucking point.
FFXIV's problem isn't that it has a world to explore, it's that they don't give you a point to do it.
>>342754428
500~ player peak every day!
Take that as you will
>>342754353
most of this is exclusive only to the aether datacenter.
>>342754604
MMO's have changed, kid. It's not your same old WoW and Everquest anymore
>>342754604
>Old MMOs used to be fucking open world with almost no instances and you had to actually fucking interact and do shit with other people to get anything done.
Black Desert brought this back and is already dead.
>>342735748
>tos
>good mmorpg
Pick one
I still play on iRO, I like cute hats and grinding.
>>342753772
how is this dead? that's more players than what I see in any other recent MMO.
>>342754353
problem with all that is that what casual's want now anon. People want to be hand held, and almost sprinted to whatever is the current "popular" thing to do ingame, why make a story, noones going to read it, why make leveling spots or interesting mobs, noones going o mess with them over dungeon instancing via quenes while they go and do something else in the manwhile, just make it look nice and fuck all else, throw in some mobs/npcs to give the maps some reason to be there.
All people want is to do a 20 minute dungeon, get a reward, and chat. MMos are basically FPS matches now, go in, do thing, go out, repeat the next day
>>342750501
I'm still fucking mad holy shit.
Why are there no MMOs with good combat yet?
>>342754718
Vindictus hardly qualifies as an MMO. How is it any different from playing a game like L4D? You sit in a lobby with some buds and then you hop into the game and do your little instance. The only difference is they let you run around the small as fuck lobby.
>>342754773
Because black desert had nothing to do. it ran like ass and was buggy as shit.
>>342754950
define "good combat", be specific.
>>342738013
i would play those, but i hate the mainland chinese
>>342754950
MMO combat is fine for what it is.
If you want to know why they don't make a real time action combat MMO with a complex physics engine or whatever it's because it's totally unfeasible to have a server keeping track of so many players and all the variables of that kind of engine.
>>342754950
MMOs are IRC rooms with gameplay minigames,
how do you type out waves and waves of autistic shit if you have to smash your keyboard and mouse to dodge and do backflips 24/7?
>>342755194
Every time there is an MMO thread you post the same 3-4 webms and every time I cringe because I've actually bothered playing vindictus and it reallyisn't very fun
>>342754773
Different time and different markets.
No matter how much people cry and claim they want an all encompassing adventure MMO where the world feels alive and their character matters, it always breaks down to people being spoiled by the quality of life major MMOs brought to the market, and the niche being too unsustainable for the cost of investment and upkeep for modern gaming. The only real exceptions by this point are the old guard that had a dedicated fanbase before WoW shifted the market from random nerds that lived fantasy lives through PC games, over to random normal people of all walks of life and payscales
>>342754950
I would like to think that TERA had some good gameplay going for it, but the community it was marketed towards and latency issues destroyed that from really being a success. I liked that it felt closer to Monster Hunter at points, rather than 123, when I went to solo some tougher enemies on the tanky lancer.
>>342755294
what level did you get to friend
>>342753865
I just started Playtrickster a few days ago and I'm thinking of quitting because it's obvious it devolves into a cash shop grab which is a sore spot for me because that's what killed the original Trickster Online
>>342755062
Like Dark Souls. Real time and skill based with weight and good feel.
>>342754929
Because it makes the game better. But nobody gives a shit and everyone just eats up the god awful formula MMOs have nowadays.
>>342755194
I'm not sure what this is trying to show is it supposed to be hitbox porn? He's far away from the attack it's not impressive.
As someone who knows nothing about the game it could just as easily be iframes on the attack though.
>>342755532
There's no I-frames on the attack he used to dodge. Also spears have abysmal dodge frames
>>342755254
teamspeak anon, what do you actually type shit when playing mmos?
>>342755494
That's it exactly anon, now sit back and hope the genre fucks itself in the ass. Cause you just arent going to get a good MMO in this current market otherwise, its sad as fuck, but that's how it is.
>>342755532
Nah, Vindictus has some amazing hitboxes, but I'm pretty certain it doesn't even fall under as an MMO at this point.
>>342743664
Are you in vegie state from when ToS is released or what? Its rmt: the game basically
>>342755318
>but the community it was marketed towards
>play game
>90% are grown men roleplaying as little girls acting all slutty
>go to the /vg/ general to discuss gameplay
90% are grown men roleplaying as little girls acting all slutty
>>342755321
Level 65. I played a few years back when a friend of mine got me and a few others to play for a while. Stopped playing because other people quit and the game just wasn't all that interesting. The combat is okay for an MMO, but not very good for an action game.
>>342755650
>teamspeak anon, what do you actually type shit when playing mmos?
I play MMOs to meet new people, not to play some shit tier game with friends I already have.
Why would I bother playing an MMO with friends I already have?
>>342755254
If you can't type and play at the same time, your WPM must be terrible.
>>342744353
Not him but I can't stand the art style. It's horrendous, those fucking proportions.
>>342755650
You're right, and FFXIV is a symbol for pretty much everything currently wrong with MMOs. It takes no risks and follows the formula to the T.
>>342743664
>poor optimization
>poor class balance, specially if you rolled a swordie, my god i feel bad for swordfags
>kToS gets balance patches everry week, but even over there the games dying due to no content, all we get is typo changes and "bot removal measures"
>said measures fuck actual players in the ass
ToS is one of the sorriest states of a current MMO i have ever seen
>>342755896
When they try to take risks, it backfires on them and their players complain. So they stick to a formula that works.
>there are people in this thread RIGHT NOW who spent money on Guild Wars 2
>they fell for all the lies
Well at least you didnt buy Wildstar...right?
>>342756072
the only reason the formula "works" is because it's the only formula normies know
>>342755763
That's also the type of MMO player that doesn't care one bit for hard and engaging content, making the interesting gameplay mechanics moot.
>play around launch, since pals thought it would be the next big MMO
>players able to be local government
>pony players go full cancer and take it over, and forced to see memes and other unpleasant things acting like system shouts or messages
That was the point when I knew the game would tank harder than Leeroy Jenkins
>>342752335
It's funny how idiots will flip flop on this argument when it's a game they are fanboying.
>>342753051
>Thinking this is a wowrefugee problem
There's a good amount of people who haven't played wow. Reality is the masses are idiots and suck at online games.
>>342755771
im half-sarcastic with that, though i wish i wasnt. Im expecting parties/grinds to require teamspeak type shit in the future to even function since most MMO combat is infact just rolling your hands all over the keyboard with no time to actually fucking talk.
>>342755896
Because if it does, it might backfire, which means losing money, so instead theyll just play it safe and toss in cash shop bullshit to keep people happy. The cost to make an MMO is too large to take risks, much like the cost to make any current game is too large. The genre needs to implode on itself before we can actually try this shit again, and i doubt itll ever go back to that 4-5hrs to get anywhere that old mmos have, modern players just dont have time for that shit, as a wagecuck i can sympathise to a degree
>>342753772
>>342753056
>30 players at best
>implying it's not dead
Big shit looking glowy names with titles on them don't fool anyone except retards like you.
>>342756159
normies are what make games sell, you should know this already.
Catering to niche NEETs is a quick way to kill your game.
>>342756072
So what you're saying is the reason why FF14 is shit isn't because the devs, but because the people who play it have shit taste?
>>342756159
Devs do try to make games that break the mold, they almost immediately die every time.
ToS as an example, ICBT 1 was extremely grindy and focused around party grinding the entire way through the game with some quests sprinkled through the zones. It lost 90% of the players in that first week and they had to send out a second wave of keys because people did not like grinding like that. Then they ended up making a shitload more quests, daily dungeons at more levels, and reduced mobbing xp.
>>342739837
It's the only MMO on the market worth playing right now. I legitimately don't understand people who say it's a bad game. It's as good as the genre is going to get without a complete overhaul and rethinking of what makes an MMO an MMO.
>>342756482
and now the complaints are that questing is garbage since you have to do it the same way for every character, the best thing devs could do is keep both routes open, but that's obviously more trouble then its worth to most.
Its okay guys I will save the genre for you.
>>342756717
Except there have been much better games than it that have come before that have aged out.
There are certainly worse MMOs than FFXIV but it's so bland. I guess rather than bad i'd term it as mediocre.
>>342755896
> It takes no risks and follows the formula to the T.
Yet it does that formula exceedingly well, better than any other game on the market.
Stop taking your MMO burnout frustration out on FFXIV. Just play a different fucking genre.
>>342752828
>running the game on a literal toster
Serves you right.
>okay so I found an MMO that doesn't blow 100% ass
>but the community blows ass
>and everyone plays in their own little circlejerk/group
>and then people like me but more autistic complain that they cant progress without other people
>and then the developers make the game soloable
>and suddenly its shit
WHOOOOOOAH
>>342756915
I thought this got canned
>>342756849
The MMO hoppers that are endlessly bitching about how there's no good MMOs don't care if it's lame to level alts on a quest system, they want to rush through as fast as possible so they can move on to the next game and endlessly tout that it's dead and that's the majority of MMO players.
>>342756930
This, the game has endless content, you're just saying mean things about it because you rushed through the game. Go play other games, but don't forget to keep your sub running.
>>342756961
ebin
>>342757027
sounds like this
>this could've saved mmos
>>342757043
No that was Everquest Next.
>>342756460
look at this manchild and laugh, since his life is so mundane that he has to shitpost over how successful a video game is
>>342756465
That's pretty much the story of XIV development, since everytime they try something new and interesting, it fails to meet players expectations, or is too hard, and the devs have to backpedal on it.
It's a big reason XIV has a routine for patches that hasn't changed at all since it re-launched about two years ago, and not expected to change at all in the future.
It is saddening that most people cry loud enough to SE that they nerf interesting combat mechanics almost instantly, to sometimes laughable degrees. Final Steps of Faith was the major cockblock to build people up for the expansion, and was nerfed so many times that it is actual faceroll content, but people will still quit it if they land it for their daily, since it somehow is STILL too hard for them.
>>342756849
IMC went in expecting the game to flop, and only makes changes by this point to keep people slightly interested enough in order to cash shop.
>>342756930
There are plenty of MMOs that break the mold that are actually fun and there have been plenty in the past. They just don't have a massive nostalgia factor and brand name recognition to draw attention.
But I'm tired of every time an MMO discussion happening FFXIV people come waltzing in to tell everyone how FFXIV is the best it's gonna get! Even though it's so uninspired and bland.
>>342755487
Latency. If you haven't noticed, Dark Souls' netplay is fucked and stupid shit that shouldn't happen happens all the time.
Imagine that on a larger scale.
>>342752138
you are the biggest piece of shit
please stop ruining drawthreads and RoR sessions with your shitty south american presence.
>>342757198
So what's your great genre-breaking game that everyone should be playing, anon?
FFXIV gets brought up in every one of these discussions because like it or not, it is THE MMO people are playing right now. It's the only one worth your fucking time.
>people beg and squeal for good MMOs and sandbox MMOs
>they are made
>nobody joins them
And then you have a BAZILLION threads complaining about the lack of sandbox MMOs
just admit it faglords, you don't know what you want
>>342757187
>Final Steps of Faith was the major cockblock to build people up for the expansion, and was nerfed so many times that it is actual faceroll content, but people will still quit it if they land it for their daily, since it somehow is STILL too hard for them.
...Which is all because Square Enix made the stupid decision to gate the entire expansion's content behind their story quest.
>>342757198
Uninspired and bland is better than different
>>342757187
>only 20-30 players in a "populated" area
>successful
L O L
O
L
>>342757091
i always forget the cancer that is MMO hoppers that just pop in, complain in droves, sometimes actually getting their way, then quitting leaving their shit ideas behind.
>everything should be soloable
>everything should be quick
>everything should be braindead easy
Just fucks sake, go play a single player game on easy if that's all you want
>>342757187
If most people think your game is too hard then they won't play it. See wildstar. it's understandable square would play it safe now after having essentially developed the same mmo 2 times over.
>>342757187
They nerfed Steps of Faith, but Final Steps of Faith hasn't been changed one bit. The director of the game recently admitted that they were holding the players hands too much and decided not to this time around. Hence why they aren't nerfing Weeping City and Nidhog is still the DF wiper.
>>342757404
Its just like the arena shooter fags.
>this modern shooters are shit! give me classic!
>okay
>nobody buys them
They are just a very very loud minority.
>this game is shit because it has lots of boring quests
Your move, FFXIV haters. Face it, once they add this great and cheap option to skip all useless content, no MMO can compete. Just uninstall every other game and buy XIV today.
>>342757367
>It's the only one worth your fucking time.
What, exactly, makes FFXIV worth your time?
And I don't mean vs. other MMOs. I mean on it's own.
>>342752875
>Blade and soul
June 30 2012
>Tera
January 5 2011
You're wrong but it doesn't matter because they're both koreashit anyway.
>>342757716
BnS was in development long before tera. I remember hype threads in 2008.
so you're saying that blade & soul is liTERAly tera? lol
>>342757716
I honestly enjoyed Tera just because I managed to get a group of 100% randoms and just roam around the world killing big monsters with them
fun stuff
and then they made big monsters super ez to solo and I quit
>>342755702
I actually started yesterday and played it only past the tutorial, so I haven't played much.
>>342755970
Oh fuck I rolled a swordie
Why am I fucked?
>>342752954
What FF do you think could out earn FFXI?
even if you don't include the initial purchase of the game it's been running profitable for more than 14 years now. Are you braindead?
>>342757404
>I want a niche MMO with a AAA budget.and a large playerbase
BnS is really good as a ghetto fighting game desu.
>>342757797
TERAs development goes as far back as 2007 because NCSoft sued them over it.
Blade and Soul has better combat and PVP than Tera
Tera has inferior combat than BnS yet better combat than 99% of other MMOs and better PVE than BnS.
Tree of Savior is fun it's too bad IMC is a terrible publisher who can't even get a server transfer system up in their heavily region locked game.
>>342757797
>Duke Nukem Forever came out before Half Life because it was in development first.
ok summerfag
>>342757995
It's ghetto everything
Ghetto fighting
Ghetto mmo
Ghetto asses
it's the nigger of MMOs
>>342757912
>I want a private server that is catered around my tastes and my tastes only
>what do you mean there's now 80000 different servers with 5 people on them
MMO crowd
not even once
the only good MMO will be from some random korean company that get high on drugs and forget that money and stockholders are a thing and just inject the most insane experimentation shit you could fit into an MMO into their game
>>342757707
The story quests, the dungeons and boss encounters, and the AAA presentation.
It oftentimes feels more like a JRPG than an MMO, but I don't really mind that.
>>342757912
Not him but I got exactly what I wanted. Problem is nobody liked it and I was left alone.
>>342757860
post 200, even as early as 170, your damage falls off, HARD, since mo hp jumps from 20k, to 200k and so on. While almot all sword builds damage doesnt improve in similar amounts, granted most classes will want to party at this stage, but if you didnt roll pelt 1 then hope you like being worthless in party format since all people want sowrds for is taunt bots. Archers/wizards and even some of the cleric trees do more damage despite 70% of swordies class lines being shown as DPS
>>342757574
That makes me glad that Yoshi is showing some spine for once, but the sad fact is that he handheld too long, to the point that the game may be damaged by it. By this point, the majority of players know that if they yell enough, things will be nerfed, or too stupid to realize Yoshi introduces hard, "nerfs" over time, and makes them feel like they have a victory as a result, such as with relic / anima / echo on content
>>342757634
Isn't that like $88 USD, if I'm thinking in yen conversion? SE needs to just steal from WoW which stole from EVE, and introduce an ingame currency playtime extension. That would be a major turning point for the game, I feel.
>>342758152
Koreans have never made a sustainable MMO. This is fact, anon.
What's with the FFXIV circlejerking in this thread? Is /vg/ leaking?
>>342757634
>Another thing we’re debating internally is whether or not to have something like World of Warcraft’s jumping potion that would work with both levels an story. The Chinese version actually has something similar to this already. I’m trying to decide if something like this should be timed with 4.0.
http://gamerescape.com/2016/06/17/e3-2016-interview-with-naoki-yoshida/
K E K
E
K
>>342758207
It died because the devs are horrible.
>>342758094
Blade and Souls combat is not better than TERAs.
It's some weird mix of tab target and action combat that can't make up it's mind and it feels really goddamn awkward. I'd agree that BNS has better PVP except for the part that the arenas are full of fucking botters.
>>342748801
FFXI and RO are my personal favorites.
I tried this for two hours and could not enjoy it. No reason to force myself to do it.
>>342758239
>Koreans have never made a sustainable MMO. This is fact, anon.
Lineage 1 and 2 has been going for almost 100 years.
>>342758067
Blade and Soul was developed since at least 2007. Tera was made by former employees of ncsoft and likely has various stolen elements in the base game. Hence why they sued and won the first time.
>>342758239
RO was sustainable for atleast a decade anon and it is still thriving in japan, so that's not true. Lineage 1/2 still live too if memory serves
>>342758208
Well fuck. I don't really expect the Sword tree to do much apart from Tanking, but having nothing else is not really fun. I thought this game was supposed to be gimmicky as fuck when it comes to combat.And yes, I actually went for a Peltasta.
>>342758239
It's about $86. Spending 86$ to level an alt class that you could do in a couple days of fate grinding.
I'm assuming if you're doing that to skip leveling entirely, you'd still need to do the story quest to see any content.
And i'm just here playing Black Desert Online, a fast paced action game with no level cap, no loading screens, around 8 classes, beautiful graphics, low-middle pc requirements, one of the best character creation details and a lot of masteries. Kill me but this is my favourite one. (Also endless hard grinding, one-shotting bosses, pvp gankers etc.)
wait no, ok
what if we made an mmo and instead of wasting resources on making set content that players will blow through in the first month, we give them tools to create their own content? then they'll have infinite content.
>>342757912
>I want a niche MMO
MMOs are the most niche genre of game ever.
The only strength the MMO has is community gameplay, and every MMO that has shuned that aspect of their game has either died in less then a year or is f2p garbage
>>342758364
You're joking it's much better than Tera. Try watching any tournament. You actually need to know what you're doing.
>>342758208
Damage doesn't fall off till 210. This is when mobs start having 30k+++ HP and you NEED to group up to level.
>>342758260
i remember we used to talk so much about it the jannies got mad and started deleting posts
>>342758208
Swordies can actually do good damage but only as the Dopplesnolder class with their Cyclone skill and using a certain item to damage themselves over time to activate their "buff when taking damage" ability. It's not as easy or reliable as what archers and wizards get though. Swordies also have a gimmicky boss killer class in Shinobi which multiplies certain skills 5x.
Really swordsman's low damage is kind of overstated; it's specifically dragoon but a lot of players had the RO attitude of "the last classes are the best" so people built to that one.
>>342758498
They didn't win. The decision got overturned. They only got a "warning"
NCSoft then tried to sue them again to stop the game from being released in the US and it failed.
But TERA isn't a "BNS clone" it can't be. If they were both in development since 2007 and TERA came out first, how the fuck can it be a clone of BNS?
>>342757707
>beleiveing people are only playing FFXVI
Vocal minorities are always so loud
>>342758730
I was insanely hyped for Black Desert, but then I heard that there is no challenge in the combat
>>342758730
>a fast paced action game
Spam aoe on mobs as much as you can. pvp is no different.
BDO is a sandbox mmo that had most it's sandbox elements ripped out so what you're left with is a boring game where all there is to do is grind grind grind.
>>342742531
TSW is my favorite of the GW2-style, but my heart will always belong to DDO.
>>342758751
>What is landmark
>What is that cesspool that is Second Life
People really don't want sandbox MMOs, they just want massive open worlds that are truly massive and open and there to explore, but challenging and dangerous that you want to bring friends along for the ride.
People just want that classic MUD with graphics style of MMO, no one wants to play digital D&D alone.
Reminder
>>342758751
City of Heroes created a mission making system.
I thought it was really neat desu too bad that game is gone forever
>>342758639
it gives that impression but current meta is very basic, taunt, mob, aoe them in 1-3 seconds. Swordie can do the 1st and 2nd, easily enough, but not the 3rd. All of swordies AoE's are either low damage or require you to be standing infront of mobs and nearly killing yourself depnding on build. But you cant taunt/mob if you didnt take atleast 1 in pelt. So yeah, far as parties are concerned you're useless without it.
>>342758871
That is 1 class, im not aying swordies cant, im saying a majority of their builds are shit at doing so in comparison to archer or wizard trees. This is especially so in the AoE game.
>>342758207
I played that back at the original release, and had similar experience to what you said.
But then you realize that it was made by Greek devs that had no idea what they were doing, and flip flopping for two different types of MMO players. The original audience was the Ultima Online type, and then they drastically changed to more modern style, and that flopped as well.
>>342759034
>Chinks buying cash shop items
Stop the presses
>>342758910
They won 2 million dollars. You're thinking of the second suit.
>>342758207
the devs were completely incompetent. I remember being super hype for this game. But it was an absolute mess on launch, and the credit card fiasco didn't help.
>>342736863
I recently came back to it and now that there's like a million high level pardoners you can buy buffs from them for like 800 silver that skyrocket your damage and make leveling easier
>>342759250
No. The damages were appealed and reversed. They didn't have to pay the $2 million.
>>342759027
>What is landmark
a minecraft clone
>What is that cesspool that is Second Life
a virtural chatroom where I can rp as my fursona
I'm talking about content. You don't have to go full YOU CAN DO ANYTHING, just some creative tools. Like, what if the guild bank was a thing that could be raided by other people? And to defend their bank said guild would build a dungeon or something around it. That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about, not character creators that let me put horse cocks on my kitsune.
>>342758260
if /vg/ was leaking, we would have ERP logs posting and shit.
>>342758239
>Koreans have never made a sustainable MMO.
Isn't maplestory like the biggest cashcow game in korea?
>>342758752
>The only strength the MMO has is community gameplay, and every MMO that has shuned that aspect of their game has either died in less then a year or is f2p garbage
so how is FFXIV still alive after 4 years?
>>342758751
oh yeah haven and hearth is just fucking THRIVING
>>342759034
>tfw still play wildstar
Sometimes I daydream about the steam release making them enough money to beef up staff again and start making better, more significant updates, but I know better.
>>342759587
sony put too much money into it to see it die in less then 3 months, thats why they fired the old team and put a new team in to turn it into a WOW clone.
Obligatory private server shilling
https://sarahserver.net/
>>342759481
because actual content takes time/money, cash shop/cosmetics take maybe a day and little funds, and in the case of the former its all made back instantly, because people are fucking idiots. People want basic safe content, your theoretical idea would make people cry about having thier banks robbed even if it was optional, because of the fact its simply there
I remember /v/ hyping up ToS before and during the CBTs, but now no one is talking about it anymore.
What happened?
>>342759620
what does heaven and hearth let people do?
>>342759873
>>342755970
among other things, its a fucking mess currently
>>342759873
the game came out and the new game shine wore off quickly
>>342759846
sony has nothing to do with the game
>>342759852
>pre-trans
oh boy I get to redo content I've already done millions of times 11 years ago what a fucking blast
how about you retards actually port renewal content to pre-re or fix renewal, you've had like over 9 bazillion servers and more than 8 years to do so
>>342759929
Build your own towns and sandbox your way trough shit to no end? The drama and wars are EVE tier but with less people.
also permadeath lel
Remember when people were so desperate to get into the closed beta of ToS that they were willing to humiliate themselves by singing animu openings and posting dick pics?
>>342760357
That ended up being way more fun to watch then playing the actual beta.
>>342739837
This. FFXIV may not do anything unique or new, but it's the most polished experience you can get. The game looks pretty and doesn't run like shit even on toasters (for some reason every fucking MMO released in the last decade runs like shit), the game gets new content updates every 3 months, and there are servers with strong communities in them.
>>342744353
I started playing Wildstar a week ago. It's free now, and I wanted to know what it was actually like.
Actually kinda enjoying myself. Boss fights are the best in any mmo I've played. Kind of a WoW vibe, but that's to be expected.
>>342759587
Korean tier cash shop garbage.
>>342759528
Yes.
Maplestory devs are retarded as fuck though.
>>342760597
they don't sell P2W shit
>>342759929
Exactly. Most modern sandboxes let you do dick all outside of being massive dicks to other players. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when Minecraft is the best modern sandbox MMO out right now because it has a wide variety of customization and lots of things to do that doesn't involve being an asshole.
On that note, here's to hoping Chroncles of Elyria doesn't suck. They seem to know what they're doing, since there's entire kingdoms of NPCs from day 1, and you take over their lives instead of being shoved into the world as an orphaned murderhobo.
The problem with MMORPGs now is that people don't have to work together anymore.
You can play by yourself while looking at other people who do the same.
>>342760357
Those threads ended up being more fun than the actual game.
What a fucking shame.
>>342760606
can confirm
>>342760357
>>342760437
>>342760784
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9Re_M4aXX0
>>342760728
>need to kill x monster
>see another guy killing them too
>whisper him to join forces and invite him to party
>get ignored
>keep battling for who can get the kills first
>whisper him again
>"leave me alone"
JUST
>>342751067
>WoW
>good lore
maybe like ten years ago
>>342760728
I always liked in early games how some classes like beastmasters could solo but other classes like dedicated buffers absolutely had to have a party. It sucks that new games had to make every character solo capable, having different leveling experiences for different classes was interesting.
>>342760728
without friends I made in-game or my linkshells, I wouldn't have cleared any extreme primals in FFXIV or get all this awesome crafted gear.
>>342758751
IT's been tried multiple times. There's only a small % of the population that can make anything creative that's good.
And then the normal players only run the most popular created content. CoH had this problem as does Neverwinter.
Player created content in mmorpgs is gernally bad.
>>342753320
>he thinks FFXIV has quest hubs
>>342760951
BC was the biggest mess of a story Blizzard has literally ever written.
>>342742361
1.0 looked so boring, everyone is just standing there. I'm pretty sure one person in there is botting or using a autohotkey program.
>>342760728
I've gotten temp banned from an MMO because I was harassing a person by asking him if he wanted to party.
He didn't even tell me no or anything, he just kept silent.
This game sucks, it could have been good but IMC are more mentally retarded than /tosg/.
Don't bother.
>>342760957
I remember running two flyff clients to party with myself and level up my warrior and support character
>>342760936
fucking weebs man
>>342753056
God damn that art style looks so flat and boring. It looks like the worst parts of Tera.
>>342757634
>DLC to literally skip 95% of game content
Hory sheet.
Unless it's priced at $5 or something though, it's jew as fuck.
true story from the biggest fan of tree of savior
>>342758730
I'll play BDO when male characters have the mental capacity to pick up a bow in a goddamn rpg.
I have nearly 700 hours played.
I've been playing solo aside from daily dungeons/missions because everybody in the game is fucking cancer. It feels like every single person in the game is from 4chan.
>>342761439
Games used to be a common place to meet people online. Now with everyone connected and social media I guess the need to meet strangers faded
>>342761578
All MMOs after Ragnarok Online has a shitty artstyle
>>342761778
No kidding. GW2, Rift, Tera, FF14, they all look the same
>>342757576
Basically this. In these threads you always see people crying and saying how it's WoW's fault that no one makes sandboxes anymore, but the reality is that devs stopped because they just weren't nearly as profitable as WoW clones.
Even now I'm not convinced you can make a AAA sandbox that will last awhile and bring in the $$$.
>>342761578
best part is it pretty much copied 11's character models but made them look even worse
>>342761906
>>342761778
I think BDO has pretty neat art direction.
what mmo lets me be xboxhueg
I feel so sad I am unable to waste my life on MMOs as I used to. And I yet can't pinpoint whenether it is nostalgia over old games or real games these days truly suck.
>FFXIV
I slugged through this garbage all the way to the latest expansion where literally 95% of the community holes itself, only to find there is... nothing. At all. Grind shit. Expecting I could eventually co-op my storyline missions. Never could. Because why play the only supposedly engaging part of the game with your friends? Unthinkable. Better go grind the same dungeons forever to get some shit gear we'll replace in a month anyways.
>Black Desert Online
It's such a lovely life simulator and the combat is not half bad. But it also... becomes boring and pointless real quick. Nothing to aim for, storyline is garbage, no actual storyline instancing of any kind, lolbosses and cero challenge in PvE whatsoever as per given usual. I guess it's very nice to travel around for the sake of it, but once that was done, the magic was gone.
>Blade and Soul
So let's wait 4 years to release this in the west, then make sure everything is nerfed to the point there is absolutely nothing to do. Ever. Okay then. Lovely.
>Tree of Savior
Literally unplayable. For so many reasons.
What is a man to do?
>>342761906
I wouldn't say that now. I can easily distinguigh Tera and FFXIV apart. Tera looks like a cheap Korean MMO while FFXIV looks like a cheap JRPG.
>>342762083
EVE, if you can last a year to pilot a Titan.
You will be more Xboxhueg than any other player could ever dream of in a MMO. You will be the Xboxheug deity that players in other games pray to, for swole gains and PvP prowess.
>>342762367
I still have a 30 day sub to EVE on my steam account. Should I activate?
>learn korean and japanese for literally no reason other than boredom
>mmos are fine now
its alright
>>342762267
it's part nostalgia and part just not being the current market that mmos are being catered to. You just got to let go of the genre anon
>>342760728
It's hilarious because thsoe pepole who go alone and refuse to make friends never will experiance the joy and acomplisment of top difficulty raiding.
Ya gotta put some effort into socalising in a game, just like real life.
>>342762532
this
Korean mmos are great it's the localisations that are shit
>working on my backlog
>decide i want to resub to FFXIV for 60 days
>regret it
i'm still gonna play FFXIV but shit, maybe i should've been working on my backlog BEFORE I DID THIS
>>342761945
Small server sandboxes are popular at the moment. Stuff like Rust and ARK where the pace of progression is much quicker makes it easier to deal with permadeath/destruction of items for more casual players.
I hope we see larger sandboxes start coming back though.
>>342762523
Will you be a complete NEET in the foreseeable future and do you like hardcore economy sims? Then yes.
>>342762523
EVE is a fickle beast, where each person has to make their own choice on it.
This is a quick size comparison vid from one of the smallest ships flying around a Titan, to show you how huge some players can be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK0gzUQ1dt8
>if you want to create a guild you have to waste hours upon hours leveling up a specific class which only purpose is to do just that and upgrade its guild skill tree
>>342762564
>joy and accomplishment
>raiding
Nope.
>>342762653
>what Trion did to Archeage
Anyone else remember all of the hype that ToS had? All that hope turned to despair once it released
>>342760669
They will soon.
>>342735748
I never got to play RO when it was good, couldn't afford to. I saw this and thought it was going to be a great spiritual successor after RO turned to shit.
I wasn't expecting much but I was let down a lot harder that I anticipated, pretty sad and I don't understand why people like this
>>342761110
>he thinks it doesn't
>>342762765
I don't ever see large sandboxes or classics coming back. For example Everquest players were always clamouring for a return to the old days, but when offered via private servers many of them ended up quitting shortly after remembering how bullshit and archaic it was.
>>342763031
Good in theory, retarded in reality.
>>342763649
You think THAT's retarded?
>HIDDEN classes that need set level ups to unlock that branch out from the norm
>in a game where branching out at random fucks up your build entirely and can render characters unplayable
>>342763317
Director of the game said multiple times they will never introduce P2W stuff in cash shop. It's only for cosmetics you can already earn in-game.
>>342763125
Not the first Ragnarok Online successor we've gotten hyped for so I think we can take the beating again.
>>342764118
Except for the fact he said he's strongly considering adding P2W level and story skip potions and the Chinese version already has them.
>>342764118
You can't earn everything in the cash shop just by playing, retard, and you can no longer earn any of the old seasonal shit, neck yourself.
>>342764398
It's only for China because the game flopped there, they already confirmed it's not coming to anywhere else.
>>342763850
Probably to encourage experimenting which adds to replayability and longevity of the game if people (ie. autists) waste their lives leveling randomly.
That's what I think was the reasoning at least.
>>342764632
>they already confirmed it's not coming to anywhere else
Source.
>>342764632
Not that the game is doing much better in the west, granted.
>>342763034
>I've never beaten the hardest difficulty
scrub
>>342763125
I fucking loved it.
I was one of the naysayers in the original threads warning people against getting their hopes up. I was one of the doomsayers in the beta key threads saying the game will be shit. I was one of the critics during the CBT threads saying the game is unfinished and poorly executed.
You all said I was shitposting and should go back to FXIV.
But now I just feed on your tearsare there even any defenders left of this game?
>>342764859
>I fiercely want to believe the accomplishment I feel is something others are deprived of in order to stroke my e-penis, while in reality most just don't feel it.
kek
>>342764717
Official Forums
>>342764718
Game is thriving in the west, Balmung and Gilgamesh are bigger servers than the Japanese servers.
>>342763515
I don't see them coming back either.
At best we might see them reshaped into something more like the smaller ones I mentioned. Purer sandboxes with a big update and a server reset every few months.
It might suck to build things up knowing that eventually everything will be wiped but it's almost necessary to do in order to attract new players and stop the sandbox from becoming stagnant when it gets filled with powerful players and items. Haven and Hearth does something similar but less organised and the updates added don't often change how each world is really played.
Even EvE is struggling to retain new players these days. I guess the best way would be to have clear dates for the start and end of each server and to offer rewards and unique cosmetics that carry over into the subsequent revisions. A 6 month competition that could take advantage of that initial rush of players coming into a new MMO
>>342765043
There's nothing in the dev tracker deying it, link the post then.
>>342764520
Cash shop mounts are just recolors of existing mounts in-game, old seasonal shit can be bought at calamity salvager with gil if you unlocked it.
The only thing you really can't buy in-game is Fantasias but you can pay someone for a item code with gil.
>>342761778
Because it turns out that 3D is a terrible way to differentiate your MMO from other MMOs unless you're actually going to make the artstyle unique.
>>342765075
EVE is steadily growing though, especially after the recent banwave of multiboxers
>>342765368
>Cash shop mounts are just recolors of existing mounts in-game
Sleipnir.
>old seasonal shit can be bought at calamity salvager with gil if you unlocked it.
>if you unlocked it
Which means you can't obtain it anymore in game if you didn't, retard. Neck yourself already.
>>342764667
That would be fine if branching out to different classes was rewarding. Otherwise it's a great way to punish your playerbase for expermenting and not folloing the cookie cutter someone stubbornly figured out.
>>342764195
Story behind this picture?
>>342763515
What? P1999 is insanely popular. One of the issues with private servers though is that they don't really add new content. So once you get burned out doing the same stuff over and over, you have nowhere else to go.
Call me crazy but I want 2D side scroller MMOs to come back
>>342765042
>cry about playing mmorpgs solo
>get butthurt when someone else made friends and had fun in group activites
Its fun to hear the excuses of the lonely.
>>342765542
The biggest flaw with it is that we dont actually have all our classes yet. It worked in RO because you knew what the end was, you wanted to be a crafting class? You built for it and hoped/paid/had friends to carry your ass, in ToS' case theres no real niches outside the basic trifecta since PvP is hot garbage and virtually useless now that gvg is basically dead
qt pve doppelgoon here
i need all 4 of my skills, which one do i 4/5? gae bulg? seems like gae bulg should be 5/5 but the other skills are so good so it's hard to decide.
>>342765541
25 dollars for a fucking horse is crazy.
Also you can buy the clothing of some story NPCs for like 12-13 bucks too, some of them are just slightly different versions of normal outfits too.
>>342765716
Dungeon Fighter.
>>342765615
Everyone crashed and the game was registering for them to log off
>>342765541
Sleipnir is a shitty mount and also a reskin of one of the horse mounts in-game.
you snooze on glamour you lose faggot
>>342765735
>assuming assumptions
>assuming more assumptions
kek 2x
>>342765871
these are the skills that i mean
pls help
>>342765484
Has it seen the average playtime increase? I left a little over a year ago and knew a lot of other players who had or were about to take indefinite breaks from the game after uninteresting patches and seeing their weekly playtime keep dropping over time.
If it's getting more new players then that's good to hear though.
>>342765896
>25 dollars for a fucking horse is crazy.
That's the only way this game is making money, by milking its less than 500k subbed retards with equally retarded cash shop garbage.
>>342765987
Fuck off retard, you said everything could be earned in game and got BTFO, kill yourself.
>>342765615
Doubt there is much of a story. You can always pretend it's the players quitting one by one until you're alone 2 months after launch.
>>342765987
Soooo... you are saying that you can in fact not get those things in game.
>>342765809
Once RO was established yes. At the start during beta and even durnig 2-1 classes. most didn't have a clue.
Back when RO was changing every damn patch cause mmorpgs were young then it was understandable.
Not having every class yet for ToS is bullshit because what they have right now is already fucked. The swordie class alone is hosed outside of a single cookie cutter path. God forbid you wantyed to play peltasta or rodelero.
>>342765043
Still waiting for the official forums post by a mod or dev saying leveling potions will never come to the NA and JP versions, anon.
>>342766175
>no argument
>resorting to reaction images
Someone is bored.
>>342735748
When will they allow new players again?
>>342765619
99% of the people I talk to say the same thing. People say "I want oldschool EQ, but with XP bonus, and no hell levels, and no this, and no that, and give me free loot, etc, etc."
>>342735748
Ragnarok Online is over 13 years old and it has:
>Better art
>Better combat
>Better world
>Better dungeons
>Better monster design
>Better progression
>Better bosses
>Better customization
>Better itemization
>Better loot
>Better PvP
>Better PvE
>Better social aspects
>Better music
You have to be either underaged or in deep denial to think ToS is even remotely good.
>>342765809
RO was a growing game, Anon.
A lot of classes weren't added until later. Most players these days aren't even aware a time existed before transcendent.
>>342767208
Do you ever get tired of being a cynical nostalgiacuck?
>>342766938
>>342767219
most had a basic idea however, since the core classes were already fairly understood. Exception being only bard or monk which deviated from the norm of that tree. Tos only really needed to have 1-4 classes in its tree, they boasted this "80+ classes" and anyone with half a brain knew itd be a balancing nightmare, we still have i think 2 or 4 ranks left "eventually" and its already a clusterfuck of a mess balancing wise.
>>342767358
Do you ever get tired of being a retarded millennial cuck?
>>342767219
>The shitfest that became the community and the forums when homunculi were released for Alchemists but other classes didn't get anything
>The fact people eventually forgot at some point Alchemists didn't have them.
>>342766379
>Game requires a sub
>Still has DLC out the ass
Nothing more aggravating. Either go full f2p with micotransactions or stick with subs only.
>>342767034
They already do.
>>342766962
They said that they are debating internally and judging feedback on the forums. Right now on the Official Forums, there's a huge thread dedicated to saying to "No."
http://gamerescape.com/2016/06/17/e3-2016-interview-with-naoki-yoshida/
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/296098-Possible-level-story-jumps....really?highlight=cash+shop+boost
>>342767432
I kind of wish Alchemists didn't have homuncs though. That and their eventual trans class just made them far too good.
Merchants should have had Cart Revolution from the start, I'll give you that. Back before platinum skills were a thing, leveling a merchant was complete hell.
>>342767462
The DLC sucks anyways and is cosmetic only. When they start selling raid gear and gil in the cash shop, then it's a problem.
>>342767863
So still no straight up official denial, got it.
It's almost guaranteed to come then since they never listen to anybody unless it's noticeably impacting their profits and retention rates, and they only fix shit months or even years later, if they even do.
>>342768009
I don't want to be "that guy" crying slippery slope, but it'll happen.
>>342768009
They wont do that I'm confident.
The weekly currency cap for the new gear makes the daily and weekly grinds.
>>342768076
It's guaranteed not to come based off of feedback alone. Everything in this game is based off of feedback. People screamed not to nerf Weeping City, they didn't nerf it. People yelled to increase inventory space, they are doing it in 4.0
The thing games lack these days is the social system that games like MapleStory had.
The game made it so easy to talk to people. The music and areas were charming. It's just a shame it died from P2W and obscenely horrible grind.
I tried playing it recently and the game looked and felt so dated on my lvl 200 I just uninstalled.
>>342765967
I love D&F but there really isn't any exploration in the game. Instance based mmorpgs are not really strong in that regard
>>342768249
So it's still coming, gotcha. Screencap this post.
>>342768335
That's because old combat is now too "slow" and "boring" anon, people seem to want to play what basically amounts to terrible action games rather then talk while playing like older games allowed. If you arent mashing a button every second you arent doing your job, that among other things killed that bit of fun about playing MMOs
>>342768196
Is it worth it to kill your game and force it to go F2P just to make a quick buck?
>>342768551
Shut the fuck up you downer.
>>342768691
No, kill yourself first corporate apologist cuck.
New thread pls
btw I'm Lolipan
>>342768592
It is if your sub numbers are dropping and you want to shift more staff over to other projects. Hard to tell when the latter is though.
>>342767375
IT really isn't a balancing nightmare when you look at hte amount of skills each class in RO has vs each skills a class has in ToS.
Besides the biggest problem for ToS skills is it's all set damage. Making multi-hit skills better. A simple % switch to every skill would help with scaling, making old skills still useful and can balance single hit vs multi hit much better.
And that's the real problem with ToS. The base game is there and is ok. Some small logical fixes would bring the game up to much greater heights.
>>342739837
>>342756717
>>342760443
this tbĥ fám
>>342768831
even if their numbers are dropping, they are still the 2nd most subscribed MMO on the planet right now.
no other MMO can touch it other than WoW.
>>342768851
the biggest problem with ToS is people thinking their skill shoudl be relevant at all levels. This goes back to what you're saying with how badly some skills scale, this goes double for buff/debuff skills, especially for swordie, im hoping concentrate gets a buff similar to the oen blessing just got and they retool other buffs to either be larger amounts or making them % based. Past that its as you said, just tweaking the damage on higher rank skills.
Ontop of that the game just needs life in the way of content and itd be alright
>>342768335
Maple Story sucks and I'm convinced the people who praise it are nostalgiacucks or children.
>>342769060
>the biggest problem with ToS is people thinking their skill shoudl be relevant at all levels.
When your game is designed around grind and combat, then it most certainly should. Who likes to be dead weight?
Even BDO offers lots of 'fun' alternatives for people who don't want to focus on combat so classes being imbalanced doesn't hurt nearly as much.
i have gotten bored of playing saga frontier over and over again and thus have tried to find some decent mmos. there are maybe 5.
tree of savior is one
dragon nest another
tera
starforge which people dont care about for some reason
and archeage
>>342769254
because most classes get better damage skills as they go up in ranks, lower ranks from my understanding were supposed to be your utility ranks for some classes, while later clases were your source of damage skills, exceptions apply of course such as alch/pardoner and such, the damage skills shoudl be good for your relative level, not from 1-cap
>>342769393
>>342769393
don't worry fampais, i got you.
new and final thread is here
>>342769106
I really wanted to like it, since it looked like it took a lot of inspiration from Wonder Boy. The shitty snail pace of it all absolutely killed any interest I had in the game, though.
>>342768978
>only 4 MMOs that are still sub based in the entire global market
>le second most played MMO meme
Runescape and EVE still have more subs, DQX has 350k subs which comparatively also puts it higher since it's only available in Japan and not globally. Less than 500k worlwide subs and active players in this day an age is pathetic and laughable.
![PDmy1g1[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/PGx9G8K.gif "PDmy1g1[1]")
![jKgxwpY[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ryhLovf.jpg "jKgxwpY[1]")