Smash v1.16 Patch Discussion
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https://twitter.com/RandomTBush/status/733123976352927745
https://twitter.com/RandomTBush/status/733123976352927745
https://twitter.com/RandomTBush/status/733123976352927745
IT AIN'T NOTHING BUT A HARDCORE BAYONETTA NERF BOYS (this is the same guy who leaked Roy/Ryu/Lucas)
Lower the hype, whine, post your would-be hopes, and speculate just how much Bayo got BTFO. The last time a patch was pre-announced like this, Diddy was hit by a truck.
https://twitter.com/thatsmash4moddr/status/733137861617291264
Bayo confirmed destroyed.
#BurnTheWitch
https://twitter.com/thatsmash4moddr
Lots of tweets showing changes.
BAYO MORE LIKE BTFO
Can I get just one fucking buff? I'll take 1 percent more on a jab at this point.
>>338113104
https://twitter.com/thatsmash4moddr/status/733133534500622336
wowit'sfuckingnothing.jpg
>people saying I was stupid when Bayonetta and Corrin came out when I said she needed nerfed and he didn't
fuck you cucks
You're lying OP
Lying isn't nice.
I am still going to kick ass with Bayonetta.
I'll fly all you fuckers to the moon.
LGTSS
JUST
This is delicious as fuck.
>>338113136
That hurts man. I just can't do it anymore. I tried and tried and tried to make it work but she's just so fucking bad and it's clear at this point they're never going to acually give her anything. Guess I'll just play Meme Falcon like everybody else.
KEK
>>338113393
NERF
>>338113136
>>338113136
>>338113483
>>338113483
They really should just remove her already.
Good. That way we'll get less whiny bitches who'll lose anyway.
>>338114018
DIVE KICK
>>338114018
WILL TO LIVE
>>338112761
>tfw Bayo and Bayo Kirby will never have a threesome with you
It hurts...
>>338114323
Stop being weird anon.
Just remove the 3 minute limit for uploading replays to YouTube and we're golden.
>>338112761
> yfw its buffs
> yfw wicked weaves have durability now
Unlike Diddy, Bayonetta has nothing to fall back on.
>she's got a lot of lag
>most of her attacks are low priority including her smash attacks
She better still have kill combos or I'll stop playing.
>>338114739
They already know everything:
https://twitter.com/thatsmash4moddr
It's a whole lot of nerfs nothing else.
Deserved, but man what a boring patch.
>>338113435
just play pm feggit
>>338114827
>bayo
>nothing to fall back on
>Amazing recovery
>She's got a lot of lag...in what universe?
Senpai I can respect that she's a character you clearly like but...be reasonable.
>Nerfing strong characters
>Not buffing weaker ones
>>338115037
>Melee Special Olympics: The Mod
>not going to melee bootcamp
>>338115268
I can't play ganon, dong or wario in melee so fuck it
Wow, what a boring patch, but maybe people will stop crying over bayonetta now.
>>338115268
>even 64 has it's own 20XX
>>338115062
>>She's got a lot of lag...in what universe?
have you played her? her aerials have a shitton of landing lag, and the more moves you use in the air, the more landing lag you get.
It's one of her biggest weaknesses
>>338115090
>implying nerfing the strong doesn't in turn burf the weak.
I mean yeah character specific buffs would be great but this is good too.
>>338115268
>melee: actually balanced: the mod
>playing 50 year old shit
>>338115425
Said lag could be cancelled....
>>338115062
>She's got a lot of lag...in what universe?
She's always had a lot of lag in comparison to other top tiers.
Her fastest moves were up- b and d-tilt.
Don't mistake her being able to land with an aerial out of a string as lack of lag. Once she hits the ground you have a huge window to punish.
Wow, what a boring patch, but maybe people will stop crying over bayonetta now. And maybe i can finally play her with good conciouns
>>338115090
Only the ignorant regurgitate this
>>338115478
>not playing good ol' classics
i wonder if you shill for DOOM
>>338115560
You can only cancel the lag by retreating to the ledge, or using neutral b (which if you fuck up you get punished hard for)
It's literally wait for bayo to land with an aerial and block it or avoid it then punish her within the 46 frame window.
>>338115468
You could nerf the top 5 characters and there still wouldn't be a reason to play someone like falco or bj. One of the biggest problems with smash 4 since day 1 is that there are a bunch of characters with very little going for them
>Bayonetta getting nerfed
>but Corrin stays the same
>Jigglypuff gets nothing
>Zelda stays shit
>Shulk doesn't get even a sliver of lag reduction
>>338115670
I can enjoy classics like doom and melee but when you try to play melee competitively, it's a joke. over half of the roster is not viable
>>338115425
>>338115563
This was a thing since day one yet people were still crying for nerfs.
I'm glad I don't play Bayo, but I feel bad for the people who do, you lost to a bunch of whiners who refused to learn the game.
>Bayo nerfed to uselessness
>characters that desperately need buffs go ignored
We all saw this coming.
>>338114827
>low priority
I thought /v/ was better than this
>>338112761
And here I thought that this was going to be the biggest patch yet with some nerfs to Bayonetta but also buffs all across the board
>>338115752
>Corrin is still OP meme
You've got some serious issues if you think like that.
So is Baeo still tourney viable?
I just want my 1.1.4 jab back
I hope for a tiny bit better frame dataI dream of a better run speed
>>338115802
desu she still seems pretty good.
Nothing suggests she can't combo like she used to.
I just don't think she can get super easy 0 to death kills.
All that fucking speculation for a hard Bayo nerf and fucking nothing else?
They really have given up.
>>338115037
>p-please play my dead mod
Just fucking end yourselves. It's over.
>>338115905
Her smashes do run on the same priority system as projectiles. Meaning they can be "destroyed" (they just clank without e characters staggering) by any move that do equal or more damage.
>>338115752
>Corrin is OP
Go to sleep you have work tomorrowMichael
>>338115961
Yes
Unless they nerfed the startup time of witch twist she will still be good
>>338115478
>>338115770
>playing a dead as shit wannabe mod
>>338115962
>that image
Thanks for making me want more alt. colors.;_;
>>338115770
seem like you didn't get the message enough
>>338116135
>Actual alts for cloud
This needs to happen soon
>>338112761
Nice, but disappointing.
>>338115398
Just play SDR then, it's in 20XX
>>338116079
well yeah pricks like you couldn't move on and adapt to matchups that weren't spacies, shiek, marth, jiggs, or ice climbers. what did you expect to happen? a long and fruitful life?
>>338116135
>>338116205
I can barely tell Cloud's colors apart in game except for the red soldier one. I was hoping for a white AC costume based on Rufus.
>>338116135
They screwed up the Aeris alt by not having the light color underneathe and the maroon on top but otherwise those are some spectacular alts, wow.
I wonder if whoever made that also made the SOLDIER uniform alts.
>>338116051
Keep saying it some day it will be true. Meanwhile there's tournaments and gatherings for PM still being held with people showing up.
Go ahead and show up and tell the guys putting time into a good game in person their mod is dead. Oh wait, you'll never do that cause you're just a shitposting coward.
>>338116253
>SDR is in 20XX
What?? Holy shit I did not know this. I'll check it out.
>>338113325
I will never fucking understand why these two characters in particular have practically never been touched by the buff stuck. I'm sure there are others but these are the most obvious.
>>338116179
you're memeing on me with a tr4sh image. stop shitposting. we're talking about PM. which is literally melee but doesn't restrict you to five or so choices
>>338116308
>adapt
The game's balancing is a joke. Everybody gets chaingrabs and easy-bake-oven sheik-tier auto combos. Not to mention the skill padding, L-cancel baby training wheels, and casual buffer.
Why are shitters so obsessed with viability? Even if melee only had the 8 top characters, it would still be a better game than PM.
>>338116385
Pac-Man's a big one. Got nothing but nerfs and bug fixes that did nothing but cause more bugs and in one case BRING a previously fixed bug back until 1.1.5 which gave him one, one buff.
It's sad because he's arguably the only third party character who's just not up there with the rest.
>>338116345https://twitter.com/Whienzarth/status/682102747521531904
>>338116479
because literally every tourney for melee is boring as shit to watch now
>>338116135
Why want when you can have senpai?
>>338116503
Pacman has always been hilariously buggy, it seems like every knew patch someone would find something completely retarded he can do.
>>338116308
>pricks like you couldn't move on
>muh one smash order
Sakurai will never EVER make the next game solely to dethrone competitive Melee
how about YOU move back to melee or move on as a casual fuck/scrub like everyone else.
>>338116550
>spongebob cloud
fucking kek
>>338116553
Only the Grand finals are boring and that's if Hbox is in them.
Don't ever dare to say that shit to me after sets like M2k 3-0 Armada and 2-stocking him on Dreamland at Smash Summit 2.
>>338116135
>That one alt which is literally just a 10% darker version of his default FF7 costume
WHAT
THE
FUCK
SAKURAI
>>338116396
>we're talking about dead Brawl mod
sorry senpai, got 20XX and vanilla Melee, so don't need autocombos: the mod in my life.
>325MB download to edit one character's stats
y'all niggas some braindead motherfuckers if you didn't think Bayo was getting nerfed sooner or later
>>338116784
It's the way 3DS updates work. They stack, so the update is everything from 1.1 all the way to 1.16.
>>338116376
I'm just sick of seeing you P:M fuckers in every single goddamn Smash thread shilling your shit. Melee thread? You're there shitposting about people not being able to adapt (which is fucking hilarious considering the whole point of P:M was to simulate Melee). Sm4sh thread? You fucker are there to call the game shit and how people should be playing P:M instead.
Anyone who wants to play your shit is already playing it. Stop trying to shill it in every goddamn thread.
>>338116901
>Anyone who wants to play your shit is already playing it. Stop trying to shill it in every goddamn thread.
Fair enough. I can't help recommend the game I personally prefer to people I see struggling with current smash bullshit.
>>338116901
>whole point of P:M was to simulate Melee
and the devs recognized that melee's balance is atrocious and tried to correct it
>>338116550
>Shinra Cloud
Nope, too bright. A respectable version exists already.
>Tifa Cloud
Too much white. The metal pauldron and bracer should both be black.
>Tidus Cloud
Why? Pauldron should be blue, bracer should be red and gold. Eh.
>Sephiroth Cloud
Decent enough but shoulda changed the hair color to silver, too.
Honestly? The lack of a Zack alt ASTOUNDS me. Seriously.
>>338116575
>>338116696
It's based on his newer appearances
For some reason Square decided to make his suit black instead of purple later, it's probably Crisis Core's fault since it was the one who started it
>>338116376
>Meanwhile there's tournaments and gatherings for PM still being held with people showing up.
all 5 of them
>>338112761
Um, isn't the patch file like 30+ mb for Wii U and like 300+ mb for 3DS?
>>338112761
Meh, I'm okay with it.
I voted for her to be in so I'll still play her. I just hope they didn't fuck her up too much,
>Hoping for DDD buffs, ever
>>338117243
Zing. Still more than Rivals of Aether probably.
>>338116135
Maybe once sm4sh modding is more common.
>>338115670
>t.
What is this a title he holds?
>>338116135
There was this one I liked based on Terra from FF6
Cloud looks good with pink and white
>>338117370
>has goatfu
>furries didn't attach to the game
damn
>Only a Bayonetta nerf was documented
>no changes to Witch Time
Worthless update, good night.
>>338117669
terveisin
Supposed changes to Bayo. Gutted the fuck out of Witch Twist and ABK Divekick
Dtilt
Hitbox sizes 3.5 -> 2.8
Fair
Hit 1 damage 3.8 -> 3
Hit 2 damage 2.8 -> 2.2
Hit 3 KBG 82 -> 68, x1.2 frame speed multiplier added to frame 29 (presumably means 1f later autocancel/2f later FAF, but these don't always translate to ingame as expected)
Dair landing
KBG 140 -> 135
Afterburner Kick
All hitboxes: SDI multiplier 1 -> 2
Early hit KBG: 40 -> 50
Middle hit KBG: 30 -> 38
Late hit KBG 100 -> 112
Afterburner Divekick
Damage 8 -> 6.5
Angle 80° -> 60°
Hitbox size 6.5 -> 4.5
SDI multiplier 1 -> 2
Afterburner Divekick landing
SDI multiplier 1 -> 2
Witch Twist
All hitboxes: SDI multiplier 1 -> 2
Early middle hit
Upper hitbox KBG/WKB 100g/160w -> 97g/140w
Upper hitbox Ypos 24 -> 21
Both hitbox sizes 8 -> 7
Middle middle hit
Upper hitbox Ypos 24 -> 21
Both hitbox sizes 8 -> 7
Late middle hit
Upper hitbox Ypos 24 -> 21
Lower hitbox WKB 160 -> 135
Both hitbox sizes 8 -> 7
Last hit (first use)
KBG/BKB 105g/50b -> 80g/55b
Hitbox size 9 -> 8.5
Y'pos 20 -> 19
Last hit (second use)
KBG 30 -> 50
Hitbox size 9 -> 8.5
Y'pos 20 -> 19
You guys should also know that the Bayo hit wasn't even that bad.
The biggest thing is the downwards side b nerf and all that might do is make it harder to get a second one at low percents.
She's still going to have her basic up b stuff.
>>338117715
Eh, it's not bad... it's just not hype at all. Every design in the game could have been pushed to have way more character than this. Wrafter or whatever is probably my fave design wise but they could've gone farther.
guys quickly start some fake shit how they are nerfing a woman. nintendo is being sexist pigs and trying to bring down the woman.
>>338116696
>>338117142
Dissidia and Crisis Core aren't too overt about it. Dissidia moreso. Crisis Core still follows (mostly) the rules but gives Angeal/Zack/Cloud (basically the 1st Class SOLDIERS) an essentially black uniform with purple undertones. Originally it was
SOLDIER 3rd Class = Navy
SOLDIER 2nd Class = Maroon
SOLDIER 1st Class = Purple
Crisis Core came along and decided to make its unique characters also have unique colors
Angeal wears a faded black uniform
Zack starts in Blue then ends with jet black
Gackt wore red leather like a faggot
Sephiroth wears black leather like the other faggot
>>338112761
>People expecting more DLC characters
>People expecting Sakurai to not be too japanese (aka, peopke expecting him to have a heart and be clear)
>>338112761
literally all they needed to do was reduce upward knockback on UP B so she can't 0-to-death anymore
that would've been enough
>>338117669
Alberto Barbosa
>>338117862
this sounds like something a snobbish hipster would say and use
>>338117857
>They doubled the SDI modifier
Mega kek ding dong the witch is dead
>>338117857
where the fuck are you getting the SDI multiplier data from?
>>338117857
>Last hit (second use)
>KBG 30 -> 50
Is this going to be enough to stop up air from connecting?
>>338117142
>>338117963
Oh.
Thanks for the info.
Isn't the update 300mb? What the fuck is Hackuria doing?
>Cloud untouched
Feels good.
Memes have gone too far.
>That size of a patch
>Just to fix Bayo
naaaaah
>>338118178
Smashboards.
>>338117904
Actually scratch this, didn't see those witch twist changes, kek
You're going to be able to SDI her shit easy as fuck now.
>>338117857
Basically
>You can actually SDI out of her combos now
>Divekick into divekick isn't as good anymore and probably won't combo into itself
>She has smaller hitboxes overall
This is what I was expecting actually, but I still wanted more.
This won't stop Bayonetta from witch twisting out of shield into a 35+ combo
>>338117857
>SDI multiplier 1->2
This is pretty damn sigificant, isn't it?
>>338118257
Sakurai hasn't even been with development in months.
This is all Namco and Nintendo straight up trying to damage control and stop the bitching.
This patch is probably the reason why ZeRo will actually be in a tournament now instead of ducking like a bitch because he was fearful of Bayonetta
>>338118257
Sorry shitposter san, Namco are the ones doing patches, Sakurai's done with the game and working on his own stuff
Haven't been paying to much attention, has it actually been confirmed only bayo was touched or is it just what it looks like at the moment?
>>338117990
sakurai didn't make this patch i am like 99% sure, since there are cosmetic stage modifications too which i don't recall him ever doing.
more likely Namco doing it
>>338118559
Yes. If you were good at SDI it was already easy to get out of witch twist.
Now it's going to be stupidly easy.
>>338118591
ZeRo had finger surgery or something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxXiYGResUE
So all those "Just adapt lol" will actually have meaning now?
>>338117990
this post reeks kuck
>>338118591
>This patch is probably the reason why ZeRo will actually be in a tournament now instead of ducking like a bitch because he was fearful of Bayonetta
Zero was actually trying to get back into goml earlier but was rejected because seeding was final. He's still gonna and hang out though
THREE HUNDRED (300) MEGABYTES.
300000 (THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND) KILOBYTES
OF DATA
FOR THIS
"Ok so like, what if for our next character, they like, use a sword, and have max priority moves, and uh, a counter"
"Brilliant"
>>338118626
It's pretty much confirmed. Multiple dataminers have verified it so far.
>>338118585
>how should we fix this character who does piss damage but just happens to have a cheap, easily escapable 0-to-death combo?
>LOL LETS JUST MAKE HER INTO GARBAGE THATS HOW BALANCING WORKS
>>338118748
nope see >>338116634
>>338118808
>>338118257
It was 300mb because the 3DS patching method is inefficient as fuck, it basically just reinstalls all previous patches plus the new one. That's literally all.
>>338118626
On the twitters of people looking into the updated files of the patch and comparing to the previous patch, the only parameter changes noted come from Bayonetta. They use some tool to compare sections of data, as with that image earlier in the thread with the result of comparing 1.1.5 Jigglypuff to 1.1.6 Jigglypuff.
>>338118585
I am completely erect.
Shame Witch Time wasn't nerfed though.
>>338119032
She will literally fucking need witch time reliably to kill you damn nigger.
>>338118182
It didn't connect before with perfect SDI, so even if it does still connect it should be relatively easy to escape.
>>338112761
Well if there is another positive thing about this patch is that at least Cloud wasn't nerfed
>>338113104
I was really surprised to learn that puff is low tier
I've been using her in for glory with decent success
I get so many rest kills off roll spammers, because people are just so, so bad at this game.
>>338118585
>SDI works now.
Thank fuck.
>>338118821
>>338119013
Thanks, I can't help but laugh at the irony of all these patch threads we've had lately. What a real shame.
>>338113483
The dream is dead.
so can someone explain to me why the wii u patches are 60mb but the 3ds is over 300mb
how the fuck does that make sense, shouldn't it be the opposite
>>338119097
YOU'RE ONLY MAKING MY PENIS HARDER
>>338119032
Witch Time is fine now you fuck. Stop being predictable.
>>338119223
What do you mean? Puff is just as viable as always
>>338119238
Bayo never even won a major or dominated the competitive scene like Pre-patch yet she's been given a diddy/luigi size nerf.
It isn't fair for them to nerf everything.
Why the fuck do they nerf her hitbox and damage if you can now easily SDI out of her combos?
>>338119226
Supposedly the 3DS patches in all previous updates
>>338118071
it's fucking finnish
>>338119371
Because Zero whined like a little bitch about her.
>>338118207
Technically, Sm4sh has all the correct colorings, but they aren't really strong enough for the frenetic pace. And also his gayass Advent Children alt didn't need 4 exactly the same colorings. It should've been the 3 SOLDIER classes (saturation increased), Advent Children garb, Shinra garb, and a Zack alt.
Also, the eyes don't glow enough. The single most unique and identifying mark of a SOLDIER is the mako eyes and none ever have eyes that glow.
>>338119405
it still makes no sense for the wii u to have 60mb if only two files are updated
>>338119226
DREAMS DON'T DIE, ANON
>>338119337
You mean not viable?
>Make lonely neckbeards spend shekels to buy degenerate witch bitch
>Nerf the fuck out of her to shit on everyone that voted for her
Mashpotato Samurai LMAOing at your life
>>338119483
Pretty much this.
>>338119483
You mean everyone
>>338115037
But puff is shit in that game too.
>>338119483
I think her viability as a character falls out of the window if you can escape her combos.
Bayo without killstrings is unplayable.
People don't understand she's not diddy she's not shiek. She doesn't have safe moves and amazing frame data. If people know how to punish her she can get dominated.
>>338119521
fuck, it was meant for
>>338119223
It's not fucking fair.
What did I do to deserve this?
>>338115752
Corrin isn't OP anymore, what the fuck is wrong with you.
Good. Maybe now she won't be so boring to play against.
Fin~
>>338119567
I'm just happy she got in at all.
I expected nerfs to come with how much people were whining about her. At least they didn't fuck with witch time.
>>338119624
Which ZeRo and the tournament scene started. Sheik was never that bad in terms of whining and she was way better than Bayo.
>>338119562
Exactly, you have nothing to complain about
>>338118207
>>338119507
Maybe an alt that included the helmets they're all supposed to wear.
>>338119512
There are apparently some stage things in the patch too.
is DDD good yet?
>>338119834
The one good thing out of Big D never getting anything are the updates to this image.
https://embed.gyazo.com/f7e469008b7c5bf2b56403584c2f448c.mp4
Holy shit. Bayo downwards side b is dead as fuck.
>>338119868
neglect
HOLY SHIT GUYS
ZERO'S HAND JUST HEALED UP ALL OF A SUDDEN LIKE A COUPLE OF HOUR AGO
HE'S COMING BACK TO TOURNEYS
WHO /HYPE/ HERE?
>>338120074
nice
i like it
very subtle
>>338119684
>Smash 4 fags refuse to adapt
>Smash 4 fags refuse to learn to character and how to counter her
>Smash 4 fags join Zer0's anti-Bayo posse
>Smash 4 fags endlessly cry and bitch
>Smash 4 fags demand the game be casualized in their favor
>Developers cave and nerf her
>Smash 4 fags now have their 'Super Shiek Dickwaving Bros.' game back
People wanted her in the game, and too be good. Now look what happened.
>>338120035
I don't even like her but that is just sad
>>338120035
Maybe it'll be used just for edge guarding now?
>>338114381
>posting stuff regarding the shitty Kirby anime
>on /v/
jfmsu
>>338120151
You act like Smash 4 was ever good or balanced.
Its never been good, its always been casual trash.
>>338120035
I like it
>>338119684
>> If people know how to punish her she can get dominated.
>>338120035
Wooo boy...
>>338120035
So what use does that move have now?
>>338120523
If it doesn't combo anymore, it has literally no use.
>>338120594
At least for comboing anyway. Still a decent option for getting down.
>>338119684
>I think her viability as a character falls out of the window if you can escape her combos.
pretty shitty fucking character design when said character has retarded fucking priority on her combo starters
Smash has conditioned you dumb shitlords to think that if a character isnt diddy, shiek or ZSS its a shit character. fuck awful game with fuckawful design
>party game lol
fuck off you zipperhead shitlords
>>338118071
I guess all the shitposters and niggers from twitter are hipsters then.
>>338120489
>Poppolio
Dedede fags the absolute worst.
>>338120035
What's the point of having this move now? It's complete ass. Why is the angle all the way at fucking 60?
>>338113104
if u really cared that much you would transition to melee :^)
>>338120895
>Smash has conditioned you dumb shitlords to think that if a character isnt diddy, shiek or ZSS its a shit character. fuck awful game with fuckawful design
Bayonetta is legitimately a shit character without combos though.
>low priority moves
>low priority smash attacks
>start up / end lag.
She has nothing to fall behind.
>>338120035
bayo is dead now.
>>338112761
>we could have had k.rool as another heavy instead of this shit, leaving the meta entirely untouched since heavies are never competitively viable in the first place
fucking hell
>>338121137
>Priority
No
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCLnC-ejPQ
>>338121290
K.Rool fags STILL butthurt
Oh my, some drops are left. Here I thought everyone else had drank them all.
>>338121296
Not him but when I say priority I usually just mean it as a shortened version of saying "more speed/damage/kb"
Though I know there are plenty of newbies or people who suck who think its some seperate property
as long as Bayo has Witch Time she will never leave top 10
>>338120151
(I use bayonetta the post)
>>338121290
after all the shit D3 got, they wouldn't treat weapon wielding kings like K. Rool or Pig Ganon in Smash very well either
A moment of silence please, in respect for all mains of the following characters:
>(Pikmin &) Olimar
>Mr. Game & Watch
>Duck Hunt (Duo)
>Palutena
>Dr. Mario
>Bowser Jr.
>Zelda
>Roy
>King Dedede
>Jigglypuff
>Ganondorf
https://twitter.com/LettuceUdon/status/733151595479752704
New downwards ABK hitbox. They shrunk the hell out of this.
>>338121480
I don't actually.
>>338121290
>2016
>kuck
>>338121553
It seems fine to me
>>338121597
I refuse to believe this was not ironic shitposting.
>>338121438
Eh, as long as you bait it out once you should be fine for a good while even if they get you the second time.
>>338121438
She also might still have
Witch Twist —> Afterburner Kick —> Witch Twist —> Afternurner Kick —> UAir
If she still has that she's still Top 5, she loses it, she'll be Top 10/15
>>338121639
came straight from gamefaqs like always
>tfw you stopped playing Smash because online gets boring after a while and the single player content sucks
I don't know how you guys do it. It must be just sheer autism.
>>338121531
Nigger I don't need your gay minute of silence or your pity.
>>338121639
you seen nothing
>>338121676
She likely still has it, but the SDI multiplier on all of that is 2.0 now. It's going to be a lot easier to SDI out of.
>>338121639
>underestimating smash rosterfag autism
>>338121820
Don't worry, there's always hope for mods to make our characters better.Can I take a shot in the dark and say you play Roy?
>>338121531
>>338121820
Sadly he's right.
I don't feel pity or sadness anymore.
I've lost all feeling along time ago.
>>338121920
We still have to see how easy it will bend in the first place. You had to SDI like a God to get out on WitChristmas Twist and most pros couldn't do it.
>>338121814
I played it virtually daily since launch till I bought SFV about two months ago and stopped cold turkey
>>338119521
When will they buff Cyclops into the roster?
Smash would honestly improve with the addition some X-men and more Street Fighters.
>>338116676
Mein brudder. Love Axe's reaction in the bg.
>>338112761
>Bayo nerfed
>Zero is just going to come in and dominate again.
Fuck the Sm4sh meta.
>>338121531
>implying I'm not used to this shit
>>338119834
So he stopped caring about being strong in a party game and moved on?
That's pretty mature of him.
>>338122108
and can extend that to multiple capcom characters beyond street fighter
>Zero
>Strider Hiryu
>Viewtiful Joe
>Amaterasu
>>338122136
OH HEY LOOK MY HAND HEALED AS SOON AS BAYO WAS NERFED! GLAD I DIDN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH HER HUH?!
Fucking fat fuck disappeared as soon as Sheik was nerfed and Bayo took over top spot.
>>338122078
It was mostly because no one really knew which way to SDI. Now that we know the best way is to do QC SDI up people just gotta start practicing it.
I've seen some Japanese players play 9B on his stream a long time ago and he was SDIing out of literally all of 9B's stuff.
>>338119980
This. You fags need to get good, DDD is S tier right now.
>>338122038
Palutena.
>>338122393
I'm laughing at this to be honest.
It goes to show that he hasn't changed much from his Brawl days.
>>338120035
She didn't deserve to have one of her best moves become pointless.
they could of made it so it wouldn't kill you at zero percent, but you could still get some follow up off it.
Now the only follow up I can think of is, dive kick, into dive kick. which is risky as fuck.
>>338121531
>no Pac-Man
>>338121296
>no priority
>but mac's jab beats this pikachu's dash attack
>no priority
>but if you upsmash as mario against pikachu's d-air it will win and you will take no damage despite my previous suggestion that all air attacks will always trade
Okay bayofags I will ignore the autism of this video if you can name me five (5) attacks in this game that can beat your shitty little slide kick in a trade.
>>338122136abas going to shit on him
>>338122393
Yeah I'm calling bullshit on this too.
You stopped competing only because of Bayonetta. The one thing that he couldn't be solidly. Now that she's been nerfed to the ground, his wounds magically healed and he's ready to money match people.
Damn fraud.
>>338122558
Doesn't look like that would connect. Plus, that was a CPU, so there probably wasn't any DI away in that.
>>338122575
I think Pac-Man is a wild card in my opinion, but we should still pay our respects to his grab.
>>338122426
C'mon.
Ive mained the guy since day 1.
He's got some seriously flaws that need to be addressed and I don't see that happening. Ever.
>>338122698
>palutenas back air
>lil mac's side smash
>ike's fair
>charizards rock smash
>K.O punch
>>338121531
>Zelda
what did i do to deserve fifteen years of suffering, sakurai
there is no longer anger or sadness, just emptiness
>>338122752
why would they completely make her best neutral approach option useless. Why the fuck couldn't they just add more SDI to it?
Why make it literal garbage.
Surely she at least should get a follow up off it?
>>338122698
Robin's arcfire
>>338121531
Only ones of those that are actually a travesty are Duck Hunt, Jr, Zelda, Puff, DDD, and Ganon
The rest range from medicore to actually mid tier.
>>338122575
Nigga you're fine wtf. Aba got 7th at Apex and 4th at Evo with him
>>338122698
Mario's upsmash has straight up invincibility coded into a part of it. Plus, you're whining about aerials trading when you're talking about an aerial + a smash attack.
>>338122856
Name one flawbesides slow recovery times
>Sakurai: "This character has nearly all attacks lag on ground, and she builds up lag in the air when landing. But she has good combos."
>NERF HERRR
>Sakurai: "It is done, you no longer have to suffer from watching interesting air battles that put you on the edge of your seat on if the enemy will beat her or not. After all, we don't want matchings to be fun or interesting to watch like Melee right?"
I hope the complainers are happy. They get what they want, slow floaty garbage with no fun and interesting combos.
Matches being entertaining to watch >>>>>>> "character balance"
Fact.
This shit is why Melee will always be superior.
>>338122373
Viewtiful post, anon.
>>338122987
>Mario's upsmash has straight up invincibility coded into a part of it.
what in the world would they have to code to get you to count something as having priority? it has to beat EVERY other move in the game? you tell me what priority means to you. this fuckass in the video said he wanted to make it for clarification and to get things straight then he goes half retard
This is perfect! Now I can use her without being hated by that. Actually I think the changes are fair. Now is time to enjoy the character I voted for in the ballot :)
HELLO DARKNESS MY OLD FRIEND
>>338121531
I hope there is a real patch later, one that focuses on just buffs and no nerfs. It should be easier to focus on buffs now that there is nothing significant to nerf anymore
I really hope this isn't the last patch
>>338123071
>watching one player carry another player into the air with the same bread and butter combos and land safely back on the ground
>interesting
>>338123071
Since the patch was announced all people wanted in these threads were buffs
People want more characters to be viable not less
>>338123230
>the changes are fair
>I know your trolling but this is ridiculous
https://embed.gyazo.com/f7e469008b7c5bf2b56403584c2f448c.mp4
What do we think of Megaman? What's his position?
>>338123320
You have no clue how much she was capable of.
>witch twist
>into divekick
>into down air off-stage
That sick spike setup is now a thing of the past.
>>338123424
He's okay.
Not super impressive, but not shit either.
>>338123424
viable but fucking boring
>>338123424
He's alright.
>Puff fags and DayDayDay fags think they know pain
Try being a Mac main who gets fucked every patch and got an unnecessary nerf similar to Bayo's and Diddy's
Or a Shulk main who has end lag on top of endlag on top of endlag and no help on throws at all
>>338123071
>interesting air battles that put you on the edge of your seat
>>338123071
>Melee
>entertaining to watch
That shit bores me to tears every time it appears in a major fighting circuit. It's almost the same shit every match.
>>338123613
I thought Shulk's problem was start-up
>>338123230
t. retard scrubs who are just that fucking insecure
R.I.P. Bayonetta
The witch hunts are over...
Her shadow ceased to cast.
>>338123613
>PM gets discontinued.png
>>338123404
Maybe it will combo to regular side b at higher %?
I think this was done because double divekick was enough to already put the opponent super high up and near the blast zone, so making it combo into side b shouldn't push the opponent so far up
>>338123663
>It's almost the same shit every match.
And 4 isn't?
>>338123616
shut up faggot.
I've actually attended tourneys you cunt. And the audience fucking gasps everytime she gets a string. I have never seen a character generate that much attention just from playing her normally.
People literally on the damn edge of their seat.
Your faggot ass doesn't even understand.
>>338123817
i hope it combos into fucking something.
seriously.
It was her strongest and safest move.
>>338123424
The only thing shit about him is his Leaf Shield, but I can't deny that it has situational purposes. Down aerial is mediocre because it is slow to startup and slow to get out of. Everything else is alright and he can do tricky stuff with the Metal Blade and pellets. He's not a killing machine, just a mild-mannered one.
I wonder what will happen to all those huge Bayonetta fans I always play at locals. Maybe they like Final Fantasy now.
>>338123853
>implying they both aren't boring as shit
>implying Smash isn't gonna get killed off by Pokken
Except for 2v2s.
That shit is cash
>>338123695
little bit of both desu
>>338112761
>Rosalina best character
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHG
>every fucking character I like to play as gets nerfed into the ground
THE ONE FUCKING GAME WHERE THE CHARACTERS I LIKE ARE S-TIER.
WHY CAN'T I HAVE NICE THINGS?
>>338123424
I can't fucking get kills as him, it's my biggest problem
>>338123695
It is
People who don't know Shulk just throw out "frame data" without knowing how it really affects Shulk
What is Shulk's problem is his startup and that his autocancel windows are ass.
Landing lag is actually good on Shulk
Where is the most recent tier list anyways?
>>338124083
Don't most sword users shit on her?
>>338124124
and the fact that Cloud is just a better version of Shulk.
>>338124159
just meta knight
and cloud to a degree
>>338124159
No. I mean Cloud might, but that's it.
>>338124159
Only Cloud, Meta Knight and Corrin.
Even then, Sheik, ZSS and Diddy can still blow through her like crazy. Mario has better options though so there's that
>>338124084
>tfw the one game I didn't like any of the top tiers
>Then Cloud happens
>>338124036
>>implying Smash isn't gonna get killed off by Pokken
k-keep dreaming!
>Sm4sh
>The one game Ness was good.
>Had Bayonetta
>Just so happens she was also god tier
>Life was good
Come on! Why can't I have any nice things!
>>338124036
>Pokken
>Rock Paper Scissors: Style Switch Edition killing anything
Have they even patched anything in it? Are they even going to add any more characters? Assuming that there's no actual Nintendo Direct for E3, and there's no news on anything that isn't Zelda, it's fucking done and nobody talks about it anymore either.
>>338124485
>implying Smash isn't rock paper scissors
>>338119834
HYEE-YEP!
BOWM!
>>338124485
Theyve done a balance patch
>>338124471
because faggots can't learn a matchup.
>>338124471
>Ness was good
Are you implying Ness is somehow not good anymore?
>>338124716
He's not as good as I wanted him to be. Also Shulk too.
>>338123968
I hope it combos into side b. making a move completely useless is not the way to goTwo (You) in one post. must be Christmas
>>338124471
Oh no she went from 1st best to 5th best, game ruined??
So who's the best now? I think top 4 are Rosa, Bayo, Sheik and Cloud, in no particular order.
Top ten might be
>Rosa
>Bayo
>Sheik
>Cloud
>Sonic
>Diddy
>ZSS
>Mario
>Ryu
>Fox
In no particular order
Considering I was a Sheik main before it was a meme, at least everybody was nerfed. I'm not happy, but I'm not mad anymore
>>338124820
Time will tell.
>>338124779
>He's not as good as I wanted him to be
Seriously? He's A tier and has one of the easiest kills in the game you ungrateful fag.
>>338124856
Some people say Diddy snuck back in there, since every nerf for the other top tiers equaled an indirect buff for him.
>>338124792
it might combo into side- b at higher percents.
I'm curious to see what percentages do to positioning.
It already combo'd into side b at kill percents for an Up-air confirm.
I'm guessing it's completely useless.
>>338124976
Some people just won't be satisfied unless they're top tier
>>338124485
Pokken only serves as a pokefag real time battle wankfest.
Just pray that enough people bought it for it to get a sequel with an expanded roster.
>>338123424
The worst third party character.
>>338125138
It sold more than Street Fighter V apparently
>>338123663
You are full of fucking shit dude.
EVERY match in Melee top 8 is usually always exciting, regardless of what characters are being used.
Meanwhile, in Trash:
Someone picks Rosalina. Everyone shrugs.
Back before the patches, Zero picks Diddy, people start packing since the tournament is over and he's won.
Then, it was "Zero picks Sheik, and wins".
Honestly, Trash is just recently starting to get interesting for a change. Mewtwo becoming a threat. Bayonetta causing new players to be a threat to experienced players. Making them have to prove themselves above losing to pay to win. But Zero summed it up entirely, Trash pros are a bunch of whiny babies, and when the first sign of a threat to their favorite character comes up, they cry for nerfs. Tons of people praised Bayonetta because, at least it didn't devolve into Rosalina mirror matches. Now it will. The future or Trash is two Rosalina's running around avoiding each other and throwing their Lumas at each as they run out the clock. Don't call it a grave trash scum, its the future you chose.
Why is Luigi practically MIA nowadays?
>>338123046
Air speed is too low.
>>338123424
Would be better if Sheik didn't exist. It's his worst match up.
>>338124856
Forgot about mewtwo and ness, my b
>>338125253
>Back before the patches, Zero picks Diddy, people start packing since the tournament is over and he's won.
Weren't people cheering when he won at Apex 2015 because sm4sh was over or something?
>>338125240
SFV has a bigger playerbase though.
But there are already back and forth shitpost threads on a daily basis about this, so let's just stick to Smash discussion.
>>338125253
>EVERY match in Melee top 8 is usually always exciting, regardless of what characters are being used.
Not necessarily. Floaty match ups can get pretty boring. I've seen some Peach-Samus match ups almost go to time every game.
>>338125270
He got nerfed
>>338119684
Oh no, anothet character with unsafe moves and unguaranteed kills.
Where else have I seen this?Most of the fucking roster
>>338125270
Because he's not that good anymore.
>>338124563
I probabably should've said this first, but Pokken has a specially retarded RPS mechanics where, for example, Shadow Mewtwo has Psyshock (or whatever it's called) which is an attack that beats grabs and is also a grab so it beats Counter-Attacks, AND it's an anti-air so it's impenetrable once it gets started.
I know Shadow Mewtwo is an example that'll get you to insult me because he's kinda bad other than that, but the game is filled with stupid shit like that like how CAs are supposed to be used to nullify normals, but still have a threshold which causes it to break against some specials (like Pikachu Libre's stone cold stunner).
And then you have just shitty characters like Blaziken, who's a rushdown character and can't combo worth a shit due to garbage hitboxes/frame data so everyone will just eat him up when he comes in.
>>338124856
never have any problems with rosa but then again I dont see too many players
top 5
sheik
cloud
zss
roy... am I bad for saying this?
diddy/ness
sonic
>>338125519
Yes, you are very bad.
>>338125253
>new players to be a threat to experienced players
how dis a good ting?? rer
did kirby change?
>>338124036
>pokken
Do you follow the pokken scene? It's dead in the water.
>>338125519
Yes.
Rosa is easily 1st or 2nd when played well.
Roy isn't even top 10 by any standard.
>>338125480
this
>>338125628
Bayo got nerfed.
That's it.
>>338125519
>Ness
>Roy
>No Bayo or Rosalina
Wow you must be atrocious at this game if those are your top picks
>>338125480
That's honestly the worst thing about the game.
People always meme when they give a character a HOO HAH but it's seriously all a ton of characters in this game need to be viable.
They have good neutral and damage outputs but they don't have any way to close out a stock. Just having a decent, safe kill confirm could make them a lot more viable. It's the reason why kill throws are so important in Smash 4.
LOOK AT BAYONETTA MAINS, LITTLE MAC WILL PAY YOU ALL BACK!!!
>>338123046
>Name one flaw
1. Being hit by your own Gordo has more endlag than being hit by a god damn Falcon punch.
2. Inhale has a stupid amount of recovery frames if he eats a projectile
3. Super Dedede Jump (even with the super armor) is super predictable and can be gimped if the opponent reads right.
4. Gordo sticking is 100% RNG. Something thats supposedly apart of his kit is also completely unreliable and random.
5.Juggled easily by all the top 10 characters because he's fat.
6. Some moves are missing hurt boxes that should be there. For instance, D-tilt has no hitbox at the very beginning of the move. Stand right in front of the fat guy and you will not get hurt.
7. His jab can be blocked on god damn hit.
8.His entire game relies on making tough reads which in turn yields less reward and more risk.
9. Jet hammer has way to much enflag
10. He has no decent kill throws or throw into kill setup options at all. Something that all heavy weights (Esspecially DK) have.
My favorite character has his fair share of shitty problems that Sakurai won't fucking fix.
>>338125669
>>338125480
her moves werent that safe to begin with.
Scrubs just couldn't punish them properly.
I've divekicked into someones shield and had them immediately jump up-air me and kill me.
>>338125628
Surprisingly he did not
I was expecting Kirby to get a knockback buff to his smash attacks yet again and Ganon to get more insignificant buffs
This isn't a real patch if it doesn't have that
>M-My character w-wasn't broken
>Everyone was just scrubs
>>338125270
shitty confirms
shitty neutral
easily gimped recovery
one good kill move that requires you to mash b like 30 times a second to actually gimp properly
same reason nobody uses kirby, grab combos dont make a character good
Anything new with Samus, Kirby or DK? They're my top characters.
>>338125945
Did you try reading the OP?
>>338125767
I'm pretty sure her fair off stage will still work wonders.
>>338125791
im sorry that the person you are replying to is an idiot.
>>338126024
So literally just Bayo then. All my replays are getting fucked just for her?
Fugg
>>338123424
HE'S MEGA COOL
>>338125689
bayo just got nerfed so it would be odd to still call out top 5. yes absolutely before the patch
bayo
cloud
shiek
zss
diddy/ness
I stand by my choice as ness. kit is some bullshit
How do I deal with marths that spam... I think neutral a it is? as C. falcon
>>338125519
Roy is low.
He's a fastfaller which causes him to be combo'ed easily, in order to kill you his model has to be inside of yours, he has bad recovery and how fast he falls doesn't help in that aspect either, no combos, nothing attacks fast enough to escape combos.
He's an alright doubles partner though.
>>338126137
I'd put Sheik easily above Cloud.
>>338126137
>RUN UP
>SHIELD
>JAB
>GRAB
Your jab will destroy his if your close enough.
On the one hand I entirely understand the "adapt, don't ask for patches" ESAM especially was pushing but the whining and complaining actually caused Bamco to have an entire fucking patch just to Nerf Bayo lmao. I'd love to see him and DCs reaction
>>338115090
You're correct, but none of the casual crybabies who like floaty okie situations, and want true combos to be removed will agree. They fear fast competitive gameplay, so much so that it causes their asspain to come out in text form on /v/ like their red butt is writing the posts out of direct hurt.
This is why they cried about Sheik and diddy all the time. Despite Sheik being incredibly hard to use at a decent level that isn't copying youtube combos, and diddy being just a solid character. Instead of making the other chars good they'd rather remove more fucking options from the game for their casual feelings.
>>338126276
the run up part usually fucks me but thanks that does help either way. I cant deal with the sword length because im a shitlord. the one match up I cant do for fuck knows what reason. Dont know why I tend to get bodied by roys so much. always fuck me in the air too.
>>338126137
You just have to get into him, perfect shield whatever he throws out at you, and you'll bulldoze him because he's wide open.
>>338126468
It does help to play people irl instead online so you can perfect shield things.
Fucking lame, add teams to online tourneys already you coward
>>338126297
Pretty much all he's said so far is that now you have no excuse with the SDI changes.
Holy shit, this is amazing. Thank you based Sakurai.
>>338126137
Ness is hardly top 5: easy gimp recovery, slow movement with bad landing options for stage control getting and recovering, low range on most attacks which can make netting a kill hard at high levels of play are some very bad downsides.
Ness' recovery only being better than Little Mac's, Ganon's, and Roy's (cause Dr Mario and Cloud both have better imo) is a huge downside.
>>338125412
I dunno man.
Pokken broke 1000 entrants a month ago IIRC for EVO and there's still 2 months to go until that happens.
That's quite alot for a new spinoff in a phenomenal series which is already more popular than SF by a LONG shot.
>>338126793
It isn't amazing for one character to lose all her options because lil shits like you can't adapt.zero to deaths were the only valid complaint against bayo
Please give villager a faster grab next time
>>338126829
>low range on most attacks
theres a (you)
>slow movement
theres a second (you)
not shiek or zss fast but by no means slow
>>338126829
It's almost like you've never played Ness before
>>338126887
>please remove one of the only things that keeps my character balanced.
Him being slow and having a shit grab are the only reasons u aren't getting a Diddy or Sheik patch friend
>>338126842S M A S H D I S C U S S I O N
>>338126852
>It isn't amazing for one character to lose all her options because lil shits like you can't adapt.
Not him, but this has been the case with Smash 4 patches since they started happening anon, so you cant really be that shocked. Why actually give TRULY meaningful buffs when you can make every character equally useless. Sakurai just wants everyone to be able to suck equally!
It's like socialism: the game.Like seriously, I dont even have any of the DLC, let alone have I ever played as bayo myself. The smash 4 community is seriously a fucking bunch of butthurt autistic casual crybabies. I think I'm done with this game, i'm going back to Smash 64/Melee only. Tr4sh is a joke.
FEEL MY PAIN BAYO MAINS!
>Sheik Main
>Wake up
>F-throw to F-air doesn't work
>No confirms
>Slit veins
It's still unreleased. When the patch drops the tears will be delicious.
Not because whiny bitch but because when Sm4sh nerfs, it is usually into semioblivion.
Had to relearn Sheik almost from the beginning.
>>338116135
Cloud wears that pink very well.
>>338126990
Ness has issues fighting sword users cause of their range. It's a common problem for him in every game.
And Ness speed wise is around Peach's speed. As in pretty below average.
>>338127050
Been using him since N64
>>338127245
The thing that hurts so much is that Sakurai made such a beautiful design, her combos were godlike, to see something so majestic be destroyed because of salt and incompetence hurts me the mostSHE WAS NEVER AS GOOD AS PRE PATCH HOO-HAH YET LOOK AT THE HATE SHE GOT. SHE NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE RESULTS.
>>338127245
>why give buffs
DK went from unviable to tourney-playable in a patch.
Mewtwo went from bad to winning a national tourney in 2 patches.
So is Ryu any good? I can't seem to make good use of him. I mean there are some awesome combos that can be done, but it seems like his range is kind of shit.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong but out of all the characters I use, he's one of the least viable in matches.
>watch Esam's "lol just SDI" video
>my characters are one of the few who really can't do shit about it
Glad the bitch is dead
>>338122558
>She didn't deserve to have one of her best moves become pointless.
Yes she did. She basically ruined mid and low level play
>>338127389
He's not top 5 sure, but you sound pretty bad desu
>>338126852
>Witch Time
>Jab that does 19%
>Every aerial kills offstage
>D-air has weirdly high launch sourspotted
>up-b has no startup
>FRAME 1 FUCKING AIRDODGE
Are these somehow not valid?
>>338116503
>Pac-Man will never be top tier or at least mid-high tier
>There will never be a national tourney where Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man are all in the top 8
>>338127582
He's good, he just requires a LOT of work to get results. There's a reason almost noone plays him, why put in work when other characters get results with a lot less effort?
>>338124159
Cloud and Mk do. Diddy is good too
>>338125518
I love Pokken but can't stand how so many things rely on strict RPS.
The game's fun as fuck but I don't think I can play it seriously because of that aspect.
>>338127663
And I bet you can't deal with Pk fire spam
Never said he wasn't good, he just has a lot of things keeping him out of top tier and I bet as time goes on those week points he has will at least put him into top of mid tier (compared to top of high people see him as now)
>>338127967
It made the maddest I got at a game for a long time without being related to lag spikes. I returned it a few days later because i couldn't deal, it's for a more casual environment so I'm no longer interested.
>>338120035
The people in charge of Smash Bros are literal, legitimate braindead retards. They just completely fucked Bayo into nothing instead of a couple mild tweaks so she can't 0-to-death anymore
and not a single other character touched
so basically what the fuck was the point of having this fucking ballot. we got a cool OP character that was apparently voted in by a large portion of the planet, and now shes just trash
feminists could easily spin this as oppressing a strong independent woman
>>338116575
Where the fuck can I download this?
>>338127245
I'd more-so call it Stalinism: the game, given that ZSS rules it while having party members like Bayonetta assassinated.
>>338122985
>Nigga you're fine wtf. Aba got 7th at Apex and 4th at Evo with him
Aba is a Mewtwo main now. And he got to top 4 at EVO mostly with Wario IIRC.
I don't even think he plays Pac anymore.
>>338127863
>There will never be a national tourney where Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man are all in the top 8
One of the best players in Japan uses megaman. Plus scatt is godlike. It's possible if we just get a good reputation for pacman since iirc Aba dropped him
>>338127274
It wouldn't be his first time wearing pink.
>>338127863
Sorry I don't see what your character's issue is besides a bad if u miss but ok on start up grab and maybe a bit of an issue getting a kill sometimes (but nothing as bad as duck hunt, Mega man, or roy imo, your key kills).
You have good airs, a kill projectile, with projectiles that set up stuff, a nice ground game, a great recovery, a good anti air projectile.
>>338127901
I'm trying my damnedest, but fuck me, I just keep getting my ass kicked. It hurts to use him.
>>338128440
who has to flattest ass?
Lucina or Lightning?
>>338127582
The answer lies in the heart of battle.
>>338128339
Mastaklo on twitter is posting progress updates on that mod, but you could probably watch for it to get posted on sm4shmods or gamebanana
>>338128654
i'm just saying it feels like they hammered her down for shining too bright, in a way.i honestly thought it was funny and made sense, from a powerlevel standpoint, that cloud and bayonetta would be OP characters
>>338127245
You are a fucking retard and you don't play 64 or Melee
>>338128679
Dammit Ryu ;_;
>>338128626
Lightning
That ass is something only a skeleton lover would like
>>338128626
Can you repeat the question?
>>338128787
From that standpoint Shulk should be close behind.
But no, that's not how it works. Characters who have been serious problems have been nerfed.
Diddy, then Sheik, and now Bayo.
>>338128876
YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME NOW
>>338128962
AND YOURE NOT SO BIG
>>338128787
So Cloud really is good? I thought maybe I had just found a character that gelled really well with my playstyle.
>>338129030
he is very easy to play and moves like butter. imo cloud was the real winner of the ballot. glad he got to join in
>>338129030
He's look at the enemy and press a: the character.
The frame data on this fucker is obscene. Moves last for eons and have massive range.
>>338129101
>moves like butter
This. It's why I like him so much. Try using him compared to Falco. It feels like your moving through water.
>>338128924
yes but i think the nerfs on sheik and diddy were extremely modest compared to this. bayonetta wasn't THAT overpowered. She had one moderately safe combo which people were already learning to counter/avoid. now she's going to be much worse and the meta will continue to be equally boring S Tier Blondes Brigade
>>338129101
>>338129162
I thought that perhaps there was a chance he really was OP, but part of me thought I had just found a character I'm really really good with.
Yeah his range really is insane, and he hits hard. I know Bayo's combos are pretty insane, but I've gotten better results with Cloud.
>>338129309
as much as i hate this meme of FF characters just flying everywhere nowadays, they did a very good job with cloud, and i'm at least thankful he wasn't nerfed at all. bayonetta didn't deserve to take all the nerf bullets on her own though
>>338129030
Yep cloud is good, limit makes even spam based chapters want to approach him, and 3/4 of his limits are awesome. Blade beam limit kills, cross slash limit gives him one of the best attacks in the game, climihazard limit makes his one weekness go away. Finishing touch murders roll spam.
His sword gives him very good kill power, easy bake combos, and crazy disjointed reach, he is about as heavy as link, and yeah his one weekness recovery is safe with a limit and even then he has a better recovery then the likes of Mac, ganon, roy, Dr mario, and Ness at least.
is this released yet?
>When you're a bayo main and you lose to a zelda
>prepatch
>>338129327
They nerfed side b latter climb to death, made di more useful on her frame 3 up b oos, and made a few hit boxes smaller. Get over it. She still has a good everything else.
>>338129686
You were predictable and they out-spaced you, that's all it could've been. Zelda has to wait for you to attack to do damage.
>>338128615
All the advice I can give you is practice makes perfect anon, don't rush in, force your opponent in if you can with Fireballs and you better be able to follow every utilt, dtilt, jab1into shoryu when you need it.
Fuck Jigglypuff, the game would be considerably less fun if that piece of shit was viable. Look at what it's doing to Melee.
>>338112761
>only bayo
hopes destroyed
>>338129686
Zelda got some love patch wise, dthrow to uair, telefrag, dsmash and love for oos, phantom for a wall.
Zelda is a bit underestimated imo
>>338112761
>Diddy was hit by a truck
>He went from top tier to high tier
>Still has good matchups against top tier
Must have been a very light truck.
tl;dr version:
Making 0 to death combos shouldn't be that easy, so Bayo combos aren't so safe now, enemies have more chances of escaping, however doesn't mean she's bad now, just harder
>>338127494
>such a beautiful design, her combos were godlike, to see something so majestic be destroyed
>>338129883
Don't rush in. Alright, I'll try not to. Sometimes it's tempting to just get jump right in. I do need to perfect executions of true shoryuken, hadouken, and tatsumaki. I mean I've played Street Fighter in the past but not enough in which I can do all 3 perfectly without ever messing up.
>>338129686
It's not like Zelda is complete garbage or has nothing good, she is just not great
The balancing is actually quite good because the gaps between characters are not that big
https://www.twitter.com/LoFHackoru/status/733172701817376768
AHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHHA
>>338127494
The 0-Death was cool the first time, but not every time after. You might as well just set your controller down if you get hit with a downward angled after-burner kick
>>338129101
Pretty sure that's why he was added mid-ballot. If he wasn't, he would have curbstomped Bayo on popularity
>>338130328
>can't spam until enemy is kill
SHE'S RUINED
>>338123424
Every match he plays feels like a full set and every stock he takes feels like a full match.
he's just so fucking stressful to play
>>338125253
>Don't call it a grave trash scum, its the future you chose.
You sir are mistaken. This is not the future *I* chose. This is the future to all the top "pros" who whined chose. I only ever played Mega Man and Dr. Mario so I feel my future is fine despite a few very bad matchup's to avoid.
>>338116179
this is the audience he had in mind.
>>338112761
So Bayonetta will get the Luigi treatment? Remove the one thing that made her good?
Fucking crybabies that is the Smash community
>>338130576
n-nothing to see here folks!
>>338130087
this
its just like with the hoo-hah patch, diddy is still good, bayo will be just the same
>>338113325
I've played D3s that wreck me still, is there just a cap on his character?
>>338112761
Can't wait for Falco to get fucking nothing again.
>>338129971
>phantom for a wall
The only time I ever saw Phantom Slash be used well for a kill was playing as Dr. Mario, clanking/hitting the Phantom with up special and the freeze frames keeping me there long enough for Zelda to run in and spike me. If she can do more stuff like that with Phantom then cool, but still not good at all for her neutral game.
>>338130218
If you had to practice only one of the 3 I'd go with shoryuken, you can still manage with using the easy inputs for the other 2 unless you're using them in a combo like downtilts into hado/tatsu. Otherwise you can screw yourself over trying to recover or stalling with hadoken.
Also if you ever do want to jump in: shorthop lets you do 2 nairs and the last one autocancels so you can followup with down smash because it has great shield pushback and damage if they try to grab out of shield; sour spot fair also does an insane amount of shield damage so try and cross up with it; and lastly, jumping in with a focus attack actually cancels its lag if you dash cancel after hitting their with it. But you need to know the jump length/timing for each FA level, e.g. FA1 cancels from a short hop.
Hope this helps anon and good luck.
>>338130614
Luigi is still good and Bayonetta will still be good as well
>>338129686
If you're not throwing random Smash attacks and pray for a hit, you should be fine. Otherwise Zelda mains can make you pay.
>>338130763
If your character has bad mobility, he probably beat you at the ledge with Gordos and you didn't know what to do about it. Really, the only way Dedede can win is if the opponent is unfamiliar with what he can do. He'll hover over you slowly and you have to guess when he's going to come down or when to attack him, and if he does anything and you shield it you now have a sandbag in front of you to dish 20%-40% damage onto.
>>338130218
>>338130946
Sorry meant to put shield after their with the FA cancel part. Oh and if you true shoryu after hitting their shield with a shorthop FA 1 cancel it's a guaranteed shield break if they don't perfect shield the first hit.
>>338131001
Still worse then what he used to be.
>it took them 2 months to come up with this one patch for this one character
kill me
Anything for Samus?
>>338131116
>that down air to back air
Nice
>>338122698
Exactly, Mac jabs pikachu's dash attack because the first hit clanks with the dash attack but because it is so fast, it deals a second hit before pikachu can recover.
Also Mario's upsmash has invincibility, retard.
>>338131121
the last D3 had a really good shield game, but I don't punish shielding with grabs, major problem of mine. He got me with up airs also, but I improved immensely from last game before because we both took our last stocks from eachother same time, only he had that flying into a star animation, while I flew off the screen horizontally instantly.
>>338131216
Yeah, that's what nerfs usually do
>>338131348
I was mario also, I don't think he has bad mobility
Had to webm this.
>>338113829
>They really should just remove her already.
Aside from being "ONE A DA FIRST!" I can't fathom why Jigglypuff is still there.
The only reason she was ever added to Smash 64 in the first place is because they needed another Pokemon and, at the time, Jigglypuff happened to be a recurring joke in the anime.
There are fucking hundreds of Pokemon to choose from, and Jigglypuff hasn't been a popular one since they started added half a dozen new little balls of cute every generation.
You could replace Jigglypuff with a pink Marill and nobody would fucking notice.
>>338122987
>Mario's upsmash has straight up invincibility coded into a part of it
Pretty sure you are talking about Mr game & watch there.
>>338131513
The only Sheik I like watching.
>>338131382
And his nerfs turned him bad, they removed the one thing he had going for him.
>>338131382
How good is Yoshi against him usually? I faced a Yoshi in For Glory using De De De, and managed to beat him, but just barely. I think I just had a better mind game than him.
Tricking people into making their own mistakes works well with him I believe.
>>338131513
I never want to play trash 4 again
>>338131632
>And his nerfs turned him bad
Sure they did, anon
>>338131513
Impressive
>>338131719
>posts a wemb of actual skill and not cookie cutter combo
>lol, trash 4 sucks
b-but I just started playing the game
snake is gone, falco was butchered, and now bayo is getting nerfed into the ground. who the hell am I going to play now
>>338131513
Props to that Fox for teching three times in a row
>>338131904
Mii Swordfighter
>>338130385
>You might as well just set your controller down if you get hit with a downward angled after-burner kick
You suck at this game.
That shit isn't a 100% confirmed guarantee.
In fact most people can get out of the Dive kick 0-death combo if they aren't fucking DIing towards Bayo.
You suck.
>>338131558
Nope, even one of the loading screen blurbs says his head is invulnerable
>>338131348
>>338131417
>Not punishing his shields with grabs as Mario
Yeah that'll do it. My friend and I played a Dedede in a local tournament and couldn't take a round from him (I took a round because he was Villager) I pretty much saw the same thing you described from my friend when he fought him and he tried using Roy and Falco to fight him.
>>338131558
Mario, Dr. and Luigi have invincibility in their heads for their up smashes too, just they don't have as many frames as G&W
>>338131513
that was hot
>>338131513
LETS GO VOID
Bayonetta is pretty easy to fight 1v1, unless if theyre in team battles only to spam the guns and counter while hiding behind their teammate.
>>338131920
IT'S XZAX. WHY WOULDN'T HE?
>>338130818
It had it's uses for me. Got me out of a sticky situation many times by pushing or repelling them away so I can follow up with an attack.
>>338132145
Yeah I noticed that too. Wrecked a Japanese Bayonetta with Sonic the other night.
>>338132145
You play online.
You also play shit Bayos
>>338132217
You play online.
You also play shit Bayos
>>338132248
Nah I faced some good bayonettas, but she's countered by Rosalina.
>>338132475
She is countered by Rosa, but Online Bayo is C-tier.
I've had people dodge out of the middle of confirmed kill strings.
>>338112761
I still remember this idiot didn't know who Ryu is.
>>338122127
LOL M2K
>>338132565
That's what I'm saying, Rosalina is hard to combo since she is very floaty, so bayonetta has no shot to combo her. Since Rosalina is my main, I have no trouble in general against her. I have lost of course to bayonetta players before as Rosalina, not trying to cal bayonetta useless overall, but she didn't need a nerf on anything except the counter.
>>338132982
When you play online it's easy to escape her combos.
Now it will be a fucking cake walk online and irl.
Fuck I hate this shit.
>>338132213
Yeah it is a good way to punish, but after that happens I just stay away from directly recovering or just stay above when she charges the phantom so it's a trick that only work once. Getting killed by it is a waker-upper.
>>338119181
I legitimately think that because puff punishes rolls so easy with death on for glory, and sakurai is probably a cuck that uses those results more than competitive tourney results to balance, is the reason we don't have a puff buff. She probably does really well on FG
>>338133445
Wow, he's making a decision based on how the game is being played by the gigantic majority of players and how he wanted it to be played. What a cuck.
>>338133104
Bayonetta in general just didn't get a good set of attacks to work together. Now if we're talking about actual characters that need to be nerfed, I'd say villager and duck hunt need some adjustments. Make them better but without so many projectiles. It's too annoying to deal with 3-4 different projectiles coming at you.
>>338112761
So she's going to go from great to shit? Why don't literally any game developers know how to actual fucking balance their games properly?
>>338133790
>duck hunt
You're a little bit delusional. Duck Hunt has to work extremely hard for his kills. He has to set up his cans and use trajectory. It isn't easy to play him he's also not that good.
So duck hunt doesn't need a nerf.
I don't think villager needs one too.
Bayo needed a nerf but not this much damage done to her character. What they did to her dive kick is fucking appalling.
Decent recovery for Roy when?
So now that Bayo has been dethroned, who's going to take her place?
>>338134643
Cloud or Zero Suit
>>338113214
>Begging for buffs
>Celebrating nerfs on characters you're too shitty to handle yourself
>This is what tr4sh fags are reduced to
>>338134697
>you lived to see the day where Cloud became #1 on the tier list
>>338134697
>Nerfed Suit
>not Rosa
>>338134930
I immensly underestimated him when playing as him, but he's still not my style unfortunately.
>>338133790
>complaining that duck hunt is too hard to fight against
>>338135119
Zero Suit still got the goods. She didn't lose as much of her up-air ability as Meta Knight so she can still get an up special kill out of it. Great recovery and mobility. Getting people into the air from grab is still deadly, it just takes a read or two.
>>338134930
On one hand I'm still really glad Cloud made it into Smash 4.
On the other I'm salty as hell at how good he is compared to most of the cast.
>>338135449
Even in a Nintendo All-Stars game, Playstation comes out on top.
>>338134930
I remember seeing threads about how he was mid or low tier at best. How times have changed.
Bayo main here
H-how bad is it going to be?
>>338118071
sprölölöö
>>338135681
even in mods
a Cloud brawl PSA hack (and Sephiroth) still one of the most highly downloaded mods at BrawlVault
>>338135732
>People thought he was going to be mid or low tier
>With that range
>With that power
>With that (lack of) endlag
>>338125791
>Back air will never again hit underneath you
>>338118071
finland is pissed at you
>>338135832
SEE THIS BULLSHIT>>338120035
>>338121531
>DDD
>Puff
It's a shame that while the King is good in PM, Puff is still pretty average,
>>338123320
This. Literally every Bayo tourney play was her getting shat on until she landed a dive kick and pushed the opponent off the top. The only reason Bayo never dominated tourneys was because only mediocre players picker her up.
>>338136086
Oh my god thats horrid
Just increase the endlag on it to make it more escapable, dont completely fuck the angles
I hope thats the major extent of it fuck
>>338135449
Agreed. And that every Cloud player picks the pig disgusting AC movie redesign
>>338136194
>Rollout can only hit idiots and suicidal if you hit it offstage
>Pound can only break the shields of idiots who should know better than to just hold block after several hits and don't let it regen
>Thanks to concern about timescam with Star KOs in default 2 minute smash, theres now a chance for a restkill to cost an immediate stock of your own.
>No kill throws or combo throws
>Not fast enough in the air to space well enough
At least the plus side to this nerf is that shit posters and tourneyfags can't claim that Bayo is broken, is going to destroy the meta, and be the equivalent of Brawl MK.
Watch ZeRo suddenly be cured of his hand injury and ready to play Smash 4 again like the opportunistic faggot he is.
Just a shame that none of the low tiers are getting buffed.
>>338136746
As much as I hate AC, the blue outfit is bretty gud but I wish SE hadn't changed the hair.
>>338136923
>Watch ZeRo suddenly be cured
Uh about that, don't check twitter.
>>338123046
He doesn't have his old back air and down air
![Kirby_Bayonetta_Wii_U[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/pBbQN9N.jpg "Kirby Bayonetta Wii U[1]")
