Game tries to be deepit isn't
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>Game tries to be deep
>it isn't
every indie game
>>337232210
yep
>game tries to send a message
>its fucking stupid
>>337232162
Bioshock Infinite general?
Undertale general?
>>337232162
You can tell it's deep because it's in black and white.
>>337232162
>game inserts a ham-fisted political agenda
>>337232241
The message the game sent has been sent in various other mediums and received as something other than stupid. The problem here is the way it was presented, not the message.
>game tries to be emotionally impactful
>it isn't
>game tries to be fun
>it isn't>every game
>tries to be deep
>it isn't
that happens a lot
>game starts
>black screen
>white text fades in
>"Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah" ~Some dead faggot
>game quotes dead people
>>337232690
It actually tried to be everything other than deep, yet it came out to be deep. Most of the depth came out of budget, time, design and animation constraints.
>Game tries to be deep
>depth is cut
>>337232775
>>337232783
dead mind
https://youtu.be/ZJFN2f93mLU
>>337232241
Fucking terrible game all round.
>>337232690
Only people who thing NGE is trying to be deep are the people who don't understand what the fuck is going on
>Game tries to be simple, mindless fun
>It is
>>337232251
>BioShock Infinite
I'm glad someone agrees with me, that game is shit
>>337232597
The problem is that the game relies on the player taking a certain approach to gameplay, which is to mindlessly slaughter and complete objectives with no regard for the reason why.
The problem is the game starts setting up its moral twist so soon that the player is actively thinking about less-shitty ways of behaving, and then the game shoehorns you into atrocities ANYWAY as a gameplay construct, which breaks it.
It's not even the anti-war message that falls flat, it's that the jab they're taking at player autonomy (and its relation to narrative) doesn't really work, at least not in as well as it does in other games.
Bioshock's Would You Kindly bit managed to do it better than Spec Ops.
>game tries to be movie
>turns out movie doesn't try to be like game
>>337232162
That's just Tale of Tales, a Belgian welfare scam that makes Gone Homo play like a multi path action adventure rpg. Best to ignore them and their "games".
>>337232162
This is an easy game to pirate, just open the youtube video, put it on fullscreen and hold down the forward key
>>337233120
I think I can agree with this, senpai. Those are fair points.
>>337232690
>pretends to be deep.
>it's just trying to make due with a dwindling, nearly gone budget.
>>337233141
>They think World of Warcraft is where Warcraft started.
Fucking modern gamer kids not reading video game history...
>>337233257
>budget for your show runs out
>fans threaten to kill you
>Tries to be deep
>It actually succeedsOnce you get past some hammy acting anyway.
>>337232162
MGS general?
>>337232241
I still have mixed feelings towards it. On one hand, it's a game that depresses you and feel like you are taking a trip to damnationSilent Hill 2 is the first example I can think of, on one hand it's a game with a ham handed message that never really clicked and the gameplay is cookie cutter tps at best.
>>337233406
word? it was a good watch, but nothing to go nuclear over.
>>337233348
World of Warcraft is why the movie is being made, and it was made trough World of Warcraft's retconing of previous games.
>>337233470
Have you seen Jacob's Ladder yet?
>>337232162
>Words that kill
>Literally words that kill you, if you speak them
>game doesn't try to be deep
>it actually is
>>337233528
Yeah.
The Japanese audience was so pissed off about the last two episodes that they wrote death threats on the walls of Gainax studio.
At least I think that's how it went.
>>337233618
Yep, was some pretty good shit and interesting to see how it inspired Team Silent.
>>337232690
Anno was just winging it around the end, he either didn't think about how the story would conclude when it came to that time, or he was up against budget and schedule, well most definitely budget, so he just thought, fuck it, let's just say the show's already finished and lets just fill these last two episodes with psychedelic art and monologuing that has very vague connections to the story.
At least the blunder of the last two episodes practically forced the company to make EoE, which ended up being an amazing movie.
In the end, Evangelion just ended being a show where everything was left up to the audience to interpret.
I'm kinda cool with that though to be honest because there are so many details to pick up and make theory's out of, shit people still come up with new theory's 20 years later.
>game tries to have serious plotline
>everyone is the world is full grown retard
at least im not the writer
>>337233805
You should also watch The Tenant.
>dat unfortunate tagline
>>337233546
It's about Warcraft, though. Orcs vs Humans to be exact.
>>337233120
>hurr durr game forces me to do atrocities
Why did you keep playing it?
>>337233771
Why are japs so fucking aggressive? I keep hearing about people sending authors and studios and whatnot death threats, like what the fuck.
>>337232162
It's ok that this type of game exists, because guess what, you dont have to play it and you dont have to give a fuck about how other people enjoyed it or not.
>>337232162
That's because most people working on videogames are usually uncultured or just know nerd culture, which isn't exactly the best in dealing with "deep" issues
>>337233898
>>dat unfortunate tagline
>>337233903
I know, but trough a WoW lens.
You won't be seeing the Warcraft: Orcs & Humans movie, you'll be seeing the World of Warcraft prequel, as inspired by the novels that retconed the original game.
>>337233898
Thanks anon, never heard of this movie before but it seems interesting.
I get a SH4:The Room vibe from it, should be nice to watch with mygirlfriend
>tells me I am going to feel ashamed when I find out why
>don't feel ashamed at all when I do find out why
Nice one Kojimbo
>Game tries to be deep
>It wuz all just parallel universes!!!
>>337233470
>Hammy acting
Come on, it was made even better by that. Everyone in there is just some random jackoff, who doesn't completely understand the situation they're in. This obviously would make interaction with eachother not only surprising, but also confusing and awkward.
>>337233898
>no one does it to you like roman polański
gold
I thought it was kinda sad. Maybe not "deep" but I have a soft spot for old people dying.
>>337232690
>wrong board/10
>>337234192
>main female character is a plant
>she doesn't look like a plant at all
Bravo Kojima. Bravo.
>>337233618
>>337233805
>Jacob's Ladder
>mfw I had the twist spoiled to me ahead of time so will never be able to enjoy it
>>337234258
Not a dig at the game, I actually think the awkward acting actually works to it's benefit. Yes, I do agree with you. It fits the mentally-disturbed characters pretty well.
And then the HD collections just used "Anime" acting and just completely butchered it.
>>337232162
>Doesn't try way too hard to be deep
>Is a legitimately great story
>>337232162
was that one the one where you guide an old lady to a bench accompanied by some shitty narration and then she dies?
>>337234395
It won't surprise you as much, but it's still a great movie well worth your time. Hell, for the atmosphere alone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6krzUvx5Waw
>>337233945
>Why are japs so fucking aggressive?
Who knows? I'm sure the Chinese were wondering the same thing back in the 30s.
>>337234395
There's studies about this
People actually enjoy movies more if they have been spoiled because they can actually pay attention to the awesome little details instead of thinking OH GOD WHAT IS THE TWIST GONNA BE all the time
>>337234659
>>337234818
I guess I'll watch it then.
>>337234818
That's a lie, that "study" is a phony, it's fucking retarded, and no source, no base, purely subjective bullshit statement.
>>337234602
Not quite, in the paid version there is a small random chance that she dies.
>>337235140
Ah. Thanks then, still doesn't seem worth it.
Muh just another GEAR of the WAR MACHINE
Muh DIED WIFE
WAR IS HELL
>>337235258
>fucking GoW
>trying to be deep
Is this really what underageb&s these days think?
>>337232608
>game tries to run 30fps on consoles
>it doesnt
Top kek senpai
>>337234818
That sounds pretty silly.
More fun to look out for details and speculate as to how the movie would turn outassuming you watch with other people.
>>337232162
I once attended a talk by tale of tales at some indie developer event.
They were the most pretentious retarded faggots I ever heard talking about vidya.
>hurrdurr we want to take the "game" out of games and we call it notgames.
>>337235596
>watching movies that are anything more than dumb popcorn flicks with other people
Why would you ruin your experience like that?
>>337235596
>talking during a movie
Found the woman.
>>337235535
They're not underageb&s anymore.
Just "adult" morons.
>>337232162
Alright /v/, which games succeeded in being deep?
>>337233898
man that movie was dull
worth seeing for polanski in drag I guess
repulsion>
>>337235726
>>337235730
Nothing wrong with getting comfy to enjoy a good movie with friends/family/lover
Certain horror movies though are still best watched alone.
>>337234818
I demand a citation of a rigorous, non-subjective, non-biased study with a large sample size.
And when I say rigorous, I mean I want them hooked up to a goddamn MRI machine while they watch the movie. Not "muh rate on a scale of 1-10" bullshit.
>>337235750
The Stanley Parable wasn't particularly deep, just refreshingly saucy and sardonic about the limits of gameplay mechanics and the limitations of narrative in video games.
>>337235535
Did you even play the game, it desperately tries to push the WAR IS HELL and that you are just ANOTHER GEAR OF THE WAR MACHINE narrative so hard. They have scenes where they honestly try and convince you that neither side is the bad guy and that WAR IS THE REAL EVIL, and in the next scene have the locust queen be literally Hitler.
The fact that you DONT think it was trying to be DEEP is a testament to how hilariously flat it's every attempt fell.
>>337233943
>Why did you keep trying to get entertainment out of this expensive product you bought
>Game tries to be scary
>It's sexy
>>337236150
>it's
>>337236267
>committing atrocities
>entertainment
Nice
>>337236293
Fear 2 and 3 were hilariously fucking bad.
Holy shit how did they fuck up so badly.
>>337235750
I'm not b8ing. I actually enjoyed it's message about how modern society is dumb enought to see criminals as people worth admiring. There are actually few moments where they point it out.
>>337236452
Fear 3 was done by a different dev.
No idea for Fear 2 thoughHell, I liked it.. I can only assume a bunch of the original monolith team left after fear 1 or Warner Bros assuming creative control of their product.
>>337235750
Does not compare to the book unfortunately.
>>337233015
Oui Monsieur
>>337236416
>People never play the Sims or Sim City just to fuck around with the avatars' life and maybe find fun new ways to kill them
>>337236903
Good job, you understood the point Spec Ops was making
>>337236698
I liked fear 2, but if you play them back to back the obvious hilariously steep drop in quality is jarring.
The enemies go from feeling real and smart, to being actual bullet sponges that just stand still and fire.
The scary unknown becomes the way too well known.
The impact of the powers loses all narrative power because of how completely obvious and predictable the uses will be.
Fear one already had struggled greatly with how the sections were so clearly divided between "spooky" areas and "combat" areas, but in fear 2 there is a brick wall between the horror and gunfight zones ten miles thick. They might as well drop a skeleton on the screen that flashes SPOOKY TIME!!!!! whenever you reach one of the none fighting areas, because it'll be about as subtle.
>>337232775
Modern Warfare 2?
>>337236964
>anon tries to be deep
>he isn't
>Game starts with a quote
>Of an in-game character
>>337232891
Well, what the fuck is going on?
>Game tries to have a "message"
>>337237120
Still balls deep in your mum m8
>>337237067
Oh definitely.
Hell, when people think the worst expansion for fear 1 is probably better then fear 2 then you know they fucked up.
>>337236964
...that the average human being is able to tell the difference between real life and videogames?
>>337232241
>feel bad for doing these bad things!!!
>try to take the hard road and not kill civilians
>lol no infinite respawn you have to be bad guy even though story makes it look like you made a choice
>>337233148
I learned that after playing The Path
I literally felt robbed when I finished the game
>>337237346
Why the fuck are you talking about real life?
The point is to make you question why virtual murder makes your dick so hard
>>337237367
But bruuuh... you had the choice... to not play the game... you just spent 50 dollars in... so deep... bruh
>>337237367
IT'S LIKE THAT BY DESIGN U JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!
>>337233187
But what if I want to walk back?
>>337237479
Because it's not real, because usually said atrocities are backed up by entertaining mechanics or writing
Why would I feel particularly sad abbot what happened in Spec Ops?
>Oh noez, the game forced me to burn families alive without ever telling me that's what I was doing, with no chance to find another way either other than throwing away this disc I spent 60€ dollars on
>>337237367
>feel bad for doing these bad things!!!I always felt that the decision to use the white phosphorus would have come across better had there been an option earlier to leave and report back. At least then it could have been played off as everything happening after you decide to continue despite your orders being unforeseen consequences of misplaced determination.
>>337232162
>game doesn't try to be deep
>fans make it deeper
>>337234105
Movie exactly follows Warcraft Orcs and Humans storyline and lore, not WoW's
>>337237928
This
Can also apply to Zelda lorefags too
>>337236717
Be be fair, the Metro 2033 book had a shitload of deep Philosophical stuff on religion, war, money, life, culture, and everything else.
there is almost no singular way a videogame can ever be able to explore all of those themes like the Metro book did.
Especially the really deep shit like a bullet could save a life, it is also money, so he traded 3 lives for some shitty soup.
Games usually have to stick to one theme and branch off of that.
The Witcher 3 has the main theme of "blood is thicker than water"...and it branches from that with domestic violence and other things.
Bioshock has the theme of "All forms of extremism is bad" and in the first game it's Right-wing libertarian atheist extremists, in Infinite it's right-wing authoritarian religious extremists.
>>337234105
this
>>337233903 have you seen the trailers? the story is a shitty "we were manipulated now we unite against the bad guys" nothing like orcs vs humans
>>337233653
name 23 games that do this
>>337237850
>Why would I feel particularly sad abbot what happened in Spec Ops?
Not that other anon, but who said anything about feeling sad? There's a difference between trying to be though-provoking and trying to be emotional. like >>337237479, The point is to make you question why virtual murder makes your dick so hard. The flagrant and purposeful bombing of enemy combatants is naturally a part of war, but so is the accidental bombing of civilian and other non-combatants. Lots of modern warfare games glass over the whole nature of "the fog of war" and the notion that the non-fighting populous can be assumed to be in the general vicinity of war-zones, and thus affected and accidentally targeted. Specops was heavy handed and dropped the ball at several points, but the questioning of why someone would want to play out a scenario in which they could potentially wipe-out hundreds of innocent lives is solid.
>>337238561
Name 5 passtimes, 4 games, 7 ludo, and 9 interactive experieces that do this
>>337237928
It doesn't try, but make it really easy for fans.
>>337237850
The game fails completely because the main character is not a self-insert, he's a misguided psychopath. I played to watch the story unfold and see his character develop, and thought there would be choices which would influence it, the moral path being an organic hard mode. essentially shaming the player for being a fucking casual with a feelbad story.
>>337233015
This game's message really made me think a lot about robotics and the morals behind it, not only the things the genre usually exposes, butthe morals behind humans being born from androids, treating them as a different race although biologically those childs are completely human, they just were born differently, with superior genes. Should we consider them part of the android race? would giving them human rights also extend to these androids? wouldn't that give arguments to give rights to robots as well, even though they will always be treated as slaves, built to serve?
And the game was really fun at that.
>>337238731
I actually slightly disagree with that.
>why someone would want to play out a scenario in which they could potentially wipe-out hundreds of innocent lives
This makes it sound like you wipe out innocent lives in your regular rooty tooty point & shooty games, which is just nuts. The civilian populace isn't modeled in CoD Next: Whatever the Newest One is
You're right about the game questioning the whole glorification of violence and war but it does not try to say that your actions in video games hurt innocents
>>337238561
This should unironically count then >>337239128
>>337238731
Because if I'm not emotionally (or we could even say intellectually/morally) invested then I have no reason to question my actions as a player (and mind that, as a player, not as a character, obviously I understand why Walker would be devastated)
This isn't a Metal Gear where during the whole game I had the chance to go non-lethal, the game merely forced me to press a button with the promise that good things (the death of terrorists) would happen, there's near to no deliberacy to be questioned on my part
I don't think Spec-Ops is scything critique on video games or anything, but I like how the game berates you for completing the objectives instead of sucking your dick. Just a bit of variety.
>>337239128
I liked that in the game
It brings up the whole issue so that you can think about it yourself instead of trying to force its views down your throat
The scenes with the robot attacking the evil CEO ("WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO ME?") and the one in the Japanese ghetto where thugs beat a robot to death who only realizes in the very end that he was a robot fucked me up
>>337239526
>and the one in the Japanese ghetto where thugs beat a robot to death who only realizes in the very end that he was a robot fucked me up
stolen from terminator
This whole concept is just shit from brave new world, gattaca etc. Even shit like gundam seed goes over this common trope. the theme is generic, it must just be the first time you were exposed to it.
>>337239407
It doesn't count because Binary Domain is not trying to be simple fun, it's a self righteous morality tale that starts to become very obnoxious the further into the game you get despite the fact it's treading the same ground that sci-fi has already tread a billion times over for decades now.
>>337237492
That is a choice. You can continue, living with the fact you burn a lot of people to death or just stop playing.
Just because it's not a choice you like, doesn't mean it's bad.
>>337232829
Yeah no
>>337239291
>This makes it sound like you wipe out innocent lives in your regular rooty tooty point & shooty games, which is just nuts.
Sorry, I didnt mean to imply that. I just meant that in an actual warzone, there's generally civilians or non combatants around, at one could reasonably assume that in a war portrayed in a videogame, they would still be there, just not shone.
>You're right about the game questioning the whole glorification of violence and war but it does not try to say that your actions in video games hurt innocents.
No, i know that. Like I said, its the idea that, in war, actual war, people that arent fighting get hurt, often times accidentally. If i remember right, all you saw and knew was they the Damned 33rd were blocking your way, and not that they were helping civilians, so the decision to bomb them can be seen (from both Walker's and our's) as a just action; You're just attacking enemy combatants. With that being said, the aftermath, the realization that you also inadvertently targeted and killed civilian is a very real possibility of a warzone, and I the take away for me was, why would anyone find the possibility of do such a thing, purposfully or not, fun? Why would they want to seek this out?
Naturally, I would think, no one buying an FPS buys one with the thought to bomb the shit out of civilians, but It does i think show that there are facets to wars that arent shown for the sake of focusing on either side of a conventional conflict, and people tend to forget that.
>>337239810
Sorry for liking it anon
I'll go post a bad review on the steam page
>>337236580
I wonder if that message was intentional.
>>337232690
Butthurt cause that anime was deeper than anything western in the last 40 years.
>>337232608
Press F to pay respects.
>>337240067
>stop playing :^) :^) :^)
The player has no moral culpability. It all falls apart because it goes by the assumption that gaymers only play video games to self-insert as some male power hero fantasy. And then they don't even make a character that's a blank slate to insert into.
I didn't burn anyone to death, I wasn't given a choice to or not, only to watch the story unfold. It's like trying to shame someone for watching a slasher flick because if they walk about of the theater those imaginary people don't get killed.
>>337241118
That's a very good point
Why do you like watching movies whose entire point is people getting murdered, anon?
>>337239432
Because if I'm not emotionally (or we could even say intellectually/morally) invested then I have no reason to question my actions as a player (and mind that, as a player, not as a character, obviously I understand why Walker would be devastated)
One could argue that the emotional investment was that innocents were killed as a result of actions the player is complicit with. The same could be said of intellectual and moral investment. That a terrible atrocity befell those that were caught in the middle. It was poorly handled, but the reasoning is understandable, if weak.
>the game merely forced me to press a button with the promise that good things (the death of terrorists) would happen,
I disagree with the notion that the game forced you to do anything, an that if promised anything. Sure it explicitly gave you the option to continue, but it was always your choice to take that option, whether you like the reasoning behind it or not.
>>337240226
Good man.
While true that it does rely on the self-insert. The movie comparison doesn't work since you don't have control over any aspect what so ever.
In a video game, you have to make the story move forward by your own actions. Weather they give you choice in game or not.
>>337241647
Was trying to reply to this>>337241118
So why is killing people so fun?
>>337241118
>...It all falls apart because it goes by the assumption that gaymers only play video games to self-insert as some male power hero fantasy.
The assumption isnt that players self-insert as the main character, the point is that gamers willfully and intentionally seek to engage in and experience a terrible experience in which a myraid of horrific things can happen to everyone involved.
>I didn't burn anyone to death,
No one is saying you did, but you did seek out a game in which such a thing was not only possible, but also probable. Why would you do that?
>I wasn't given a choice to or not,
Of course you weren't. You have no choice. You had to keep going. Just like Walker.
>>337232162
>>GAME tries to be deep
>>it does it mostly through text and voiceovers, rather than gameplay
Why these people don't just make a movie or write a book? There is more depth in a puzzle game than all your indie shit combined
>>337232162
New Vegas in a nutshell
>>337241118
Stop getting so defensive.
Spec Ops wasn't haranguing you personally for committing war crimes, it was asking you to play the role of a man with a hero complex and to just think about what a hero complex means in the real world.
The game does not exist in a vacuum, it was more making a comment on videogames in general than just screaming "YOU'RE EVIL BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T STOP PLAYING THIS GAME!"
>>337241961
>a comment on videogames in general
What comment? "The things you do in video games are generally ill-advised in reality"?
>>337235750
The Stanley Parable wasn't deep, just some meta-narrative jokes here and there just for the sake of it. It was an alright game but there was no real message behind it.
The Beginner's Guide on the other hand is a lot deeper, with its "death of the author" theme made precisely in response to people looking for deeper meanings in Parable, that weren't really there to begin with.
>>337241842
New Vegas never tried to be deep.
>>337240323
Pretty sure it is. Volition are pretty smart when they want to be. Definitely a lot deeper than any GTA with all of that over the top american parody that goes nowhere with it.
MGS2 and Deus Ex are also games that succeded at being deep without trying to hard.
But as always, depth is mostly subjective, it won't be there if you're not willing to find it.
>>337232241
Hotline Miami did it better
>>337242086
Why do you guys always bring reality into it? The game isn't teaching you not to murder in real life, that's stupid
>>337242203
>Why do you guys always bring reality into it?
Actually, the post I was replying to did.
>>337236580
I liked that too
>>337242203
Because the creators take a shit on you for continuing to play their game, you idiot.
They said that they talk shit in game, because you didn't chose to stop playing the game. That being the only good and valid choice to NOT commit those horrible things
>>337241306
Because they can have themes and messages that go beyond the premise itself. Like spec ops tries and fails to do. That and I can separate fiction from reality. You can appreciate the suspense, directing, the twists and turns, cinematography, creativity, become invested in the story, and characters etc etc. Theoretical tragedies let you experience and reflect on situations that might not even be possible in reality without anyone actually being harmed.
>>337242285
>>337242454
I admit I was too vague
Why do you guys always bring the distinction between reality and vidya into it*
This is like the third time someone in the thread asked "so the game is telling me that murdering is bad in real life?"
>>337241765
>Why would you do that?
Because humans of the modern age in general lack an outlet for their more basic instincts, such as maintaining territory and belonging to a social group (with the implication of combating other, opposed social groups).
Video games provide that outlet. As did films, music, and sports before them. This is psychology 101.
>>337242475
>directing, the twists and turns, cinematography, creativity, become invested in the story, and characters
>in a fucking slasher flick
top kek
>let you experience and reflect on situations that might not even be possible in reality
>what would I do if a supernatural killer was after me?
topper kek
>>337240171
I may not be understanding completely what you mean at the
> why would anyone find the possibility of do such a thing, purposfully or not, fun? Why would they want to seek this out?
But the reason to go onif that's what you meanis to find justification for the "sacrifices" you made.
>>337242547
>Why do you guys always bring the distinction between reality and vidya into it*
Because the game breaks the fourth wall on several occasions, upon which most players expect it to take responsibility and deliver a related point, like many other 4th-wall-breaking games do (e.g. MGS2).
Spec Ops doesn't. This is why so many people find it irritating. And while you could argue that, "The things you are doing in this game are bad!" IS the delivered point, it's a silly point in and of itself. Completely unworthy of the praise the game regularly receives.
>>337232162
Bioshock games
>game doesn't try to be deep
>it is
>>337242791
The game isn't trying to somehow make a point that the things Walker does in the game are bad (it doesn't need to prove that because it's pretty self-evident)
When it breaks the fourth wall it asks you, the player, why you continue
It isn't actually trying to make you feel bad for continuing to play (after all, the devs want you to play the rest of the game)
It just wants you to ask yourself why you find that shit fun, that's all
>>337241647
And for a movie, I have to go to the theater, or push play. I also have to willingly sit down and watch it those are my actions. video games making you move your thumbs to experience it is just another layer, I can pause a movie and not watch just like I can pause a game.
>>337232162
literally tlou
>Game tries to be bad
>It isn't
>>337243104
>It just wants you to ask yourself why you find that shit fun, that's all
See: >>337242550
It's as much a question as I'm a fucking tumblrina. Fictional violence appeals to basic human instincts and subconscious needs. It's really, honestly no more complicated than that.
>>337241765
Fuck off shill.
>"game" tries to be a game
>it isn't
Modern gaming in a nutshell
>game doesn't try to be scary
>it is
>>337243319
If that's the answer you've found for yourself, that's fine
It's just a fucking shooting game that includes a very basic philosophic question, it's not trying to be a treatise on the human condition
>>337243228
I don't think tlou was trying to be deep at all. It was more about character interaction.
>>337237264
This is the most reddit post of the thread
>>337243515
Forgot to add: the main problem with the game is faggots gushing about how deep it is
>Game tries to run above 20 FPS
>It dosen't
>>337243450
I bet you're like 19 years old.
>>337243515
>It's just a fucking shooting game that includes a very basic philosophic question
Whereas both its fans and marketing lauded it as something greater than that. Which is the crux of the fucking problem. And the point of this thread, in fact.
>game tries to be funny
>it isn't
>>337237186
anime
>>337242741
>I may not be understanding completely what you mean at the
I mean is this. Experiencing war is fucking terrible. People that you train with , become friends with, and fight with are dying, you thousands of miles away from home, families are being torn apart without being know, the survivors are wracked with guilt and trauma, and a whole lot of other unpleaseness, and the exact same is being done the the enemy. And not only that, but depending on the type of conflict, there's also the people in the middle, that may not be for either side, but are getting killed just the same, but without the ability do save themselves or do something about it. War is a terrible, ugly business, and why would someone seek a form of entertainment to simulate it?
There's a picture i cant find at the moment that Ive seen on /k/ that explains it better. A WWI vetern writes about how people that wish to experience war shouldnt do so from the comfort of their home and from books, but from the cold and muck that it actually occurs in, and how they should appreciate the former and not the latter.
>>337243701
>listening to fans and marketspeak
There's your problem.
>>337242086
Partly, it's a comment on the idea of a "hero".
The writers felt that games pander too much to the player, they wanted to create a world that doesn't work how the player expects, doesn't reward them for their "accomplishments", where every decision is a poor one, etc., etc.
I do find it funny that people's complaints about the game seem to be exactly same complaints the protagonist of the game has, i.e. "Why is everything not going how I want it to? Why am I not the hero?" I think the writers hit the nail on the head.
I not sure I agree with their concerns that people take their video game hero complexes into real life, though.
>>337234602
>someone used my pic and filename from a filename thread
Is this the highest honor a person can achieve?
>>337242550
explain this image then. To imply that artistic endeavors are only for catharsis is like saying that we only eat food for nourishment, or have sex for procreation. People also make games to explore the limits of the medium, or to challenge the prevalent conventions.
It will never cease to amaze me how the most technologically advanced media ever made is so hopelessly trapped in fucking Victorian mentality. It's a shame that for all the billions of dollars the industry makes, not a single person working in it can afford to have some TASTE
>game is good but is ruined by the ending/twist
>>337244130
forgot to attach image
>>337232690
>anno we're out of money what do we do
>give me all your concept art and bring me my copy of being and nothingness
>>337243931
>Why am I not the hero?
First you separate the protagonist and the player, then you merge them back together with this point. Let's clear something up here. Nobody with half a brain who played Spec Ops thought Walker was their self-insert. He's a voiced character, with a pre-established personality, backstory, and story arc. He's NOT the player.
Now that we've got this out of the way, the complaint you attempted to synonymise with Walker's personal one should rather be worded as such: "Why is the game (through its mechanics and design) implying that I, the player, may influence its course (as in many other, better games), where the truth is it's entirely on a rail from start to finish?" THIS is the players' complaint. Not your alleged "wanting to be a hero."
Games are systems, and when a system implies working in one way, but ends up doing exactly the opposite, that's a badly designed system.
>>337244237
yep, looks like the equivalent of a walking simulator
what's your point about taste again?
>>337242550
>Video games provide that outlet. As did films, music, and sports before them. This is psychology 101.
Actually, psychology 101 says "outlets" are bullshit.
They don't provide a release, they reinforce the behavior with the possibility of escalation.
>>337244130
>Spec Ops attempts to challenge the prevalent conditions...
>... by being a 100% by-the-numbers, generic third person shooter in drab, military colours
OK then?
>>337234395
Honestly you could see the spoiler coming. It's not what makes the movie good, it's the otherworldly visuals and writing that make it worth watching.
>>337244513
We're talking about legitimate psychology, not its new-age feminist incarnations.
>>337242550
Have you done first year psychology?
>>337244237
Looks like shit.
>>337243319
People also play video games for you know, the gameplay, and might want to experience a story regardless of there being a chance of bad things happening, as if they didn't it would be pretty bland. Otherwise if it was just to satisfy some primal need they don't have an outlet for any game regardless of quality, so long as it had violence would fulfill that purpose, and there would be no incentive to buy another violent game.
>>337242550
>This is psychology 101.
>>337244797
>equating gameplay with experiencing the story
No.
>>337242791
The game only breaks the fourth wall when the loading screens already do, and does so to deliver hilarious dark zingers that went completely over your fucking head.
The game doesn't moralize, unlike your pansy bitch ass or everyone else who didn't get it. It's a massacre simulator where you get to kill everyone, literally everyone, and that's all. It's the best.
>>337237928
but dark souls doesn't try to be deep?
it's all of those lore autists
>>337244797
People play games for a myriad of reasons. The question asked, however, was why they enjoy a violent turn of events in games, to which the post you replied to provided a simple answer. Try to keep up.
>>337243104
It's not trying to make you "ask yourself" jack shit. The game KNOWS it is awesome, KNOWS it is metal, and KNOWS you want to see it through. It's just taking a dig at the eager audience.
I don't understand why so many bitches played Spec Ops.
>>337244986
good job making a retarded reply to a 1.5 hours old post
I suggest reading the post again
>>337244318
>First you separate the protagonist and the player, then you merge them back together with this point.
I didn't merge them back together, merely observed that both the players and the character of Walker have the same complaints about the game.
>"Why is the game (through its mechanics and design) implying that I, the player, may influence its course (as in many other, better games), where the truth is it's entirely on a rail from start to finish?" THIS is the players' complaint. Not your alleged "wanting to be a hero."
And you missed the point. Games are crafted to pander to the player, one option may not be appealing to you but that does not mean it's not appealing to anyone. Very, very few games allow the player to make the "wrong" choice, though they may let you inadvertently chose something you didn't want to chose. Spec Ops never lets the player make the "right" choice, it's just not an option.
>Games are systems, and when a system implies working in one way, but ends up doing exactly the opposite, that's a badly designed system.
It's not a bad design when it's doing exactly what it was designed to do. You were deliberately fooled by the game, that's not a fault in the game but it's also not a fault in you so stop being so fucking defensive.
>>337233120
Spec Ops isn't an anti-war game, fucking retard. Holy shit.
>>337244720
Video games don't act as an outlet to relieve stress of get anything out of your system. This has been studied. They also don't make people violent though the violence itself, unless they get frustrated by getting stuck, losing online etc.
>>337237928
This is story done right in video games.
The story is never in the way of the gameplay, but it is there if you want it.
When it comes to Gone Home, its not a game. It just isnt. It's interactive story telling using the medium of video games.
If it good or not, thats subjective, but no one can with a straight face try to argue that it is a game.
>>337245167
Correction: outside of the "pick your ending" finale, Spec Ops never allows you to make A (capital A) choice. It does, however, attempt to fool you, the player (not the character, nor the sympathiser to the character), into thinking it does the opposite. I remind you that branching storylines have been a major selling point of games for the longest time now, and Spec Ops definitely attempts to play on this appeal by offering you many apparent choices throughout the experience.
Of course, once you play it again and go for the "other" path, it turns out none of them matter at all, there is no branching storyline, and the game is essentially half of what you expected. This is what the complaints are about. False advertising, after a fashion.
I also remind you that Spec Ops was originally meant to have a branching storyline, before the studio got hit by deadlines and budget cuts.
>>337244237
L-loss?
>Every single Kojima game ever
>>337244720
There have been studies done that heavily suggest allowing one to "release" their anger in the form of aggressive exercise like hitting a punching bag doesn't make them less angry. It actually had the opposite effect.
>leave the thread to do some buisness
>return
>it's still up
>Blame Game: The Rine fanbois in full damage control mode
Hey, at least MC doesn't say something awfully cliche, like "Man is the most dangerous animal".
>>337245558
Dark Souls does not have a story. It has a premise, a conclusion, and tons of lore which there is no reason to care about because it is irrelevant to my involvement and the general gameplay.
A proper story generally has a beginning, middle, and an end, and involves actual characters.
>>337245630
There are tons of "choices" throughout the game, and they're all framed as whether or not (and what at) to pull the trigger. This in itself is brilliant and doesn't get nearly enough recognition compared to the hamfisted button-prompt pause-time dichotomies of BioWare bullshit.
Not having a choice is also thematically crucial to the game, because everyone will die anyway. It's fucked before you got there, and you can only make it worse, but the pacing is partly up to you.
The only reason people want "more choice" is because they are moralizing twats who cannot handle the game as it is and somehow feel "guilty" playing it instead of giddy and exhilarated.
>>337245761
I read somewhere that venting your anger (like just screaming it out once a day) is actually addictive and makes you more easily angered
>>337245825
>A proper story generally has a beginning, middle, and an end, and involves actual characters.
which dark souls has, in addition to the lore.
>>337245630
The writers very specifically said they wanted a world where the choices did not matter because the world did not care what the player wanted, the world of Spec Ops does not pander to the player. Even if there was an option for the player to take path B instead of A it was always going to be bad.
And I don't know why you are saying they pretended there is branching story for marketing reasons, a branching story was never part of the marketing and they never indicated it was there.
You can hate the game if you want but get off your high horse and stop pretending your opinion is some sort of objective truth. Honestly, it's no wonder you hate the game, you seem to be the exact type of "gamer" they had in mind when they thought games pander too much.
>>337246242
The avatar is not a character and none of what he does has any motivational relation to all the backstory that I don't care about, as the game doesn't care whether I care nor give me a reason to.
An example of a game that integrates "lore" well with player agency is The Talos Principle, which is also a much more interesting and intelligent game than memorizing sketchy timing windows for rolling and R1.
>lame christian allusions slapped on top of pretentious yet fairly generic sci-fi story with shitton of anime cliches: the game
>>337246127
It's a sad day when you resort to comparing a game you like to BioWare shit in order to make it look good.
But to address your point,
>The only reason people want "more choice" is because they are moralizing twats
The reasons people want "more choice" is because: 1) it's a major theme of the story that there is, in fact, always a choice (albeit the protagonist is opposed to the idea), 2) the game itself on the meta level (as in, outside of the story) implies with its systems just such a presence of choices, yet fails to deliver on any of those it presents to the player.
>>337246324
FYI, the "advertising" in "false advertising" wasn't meant to be taken literally. Hence the "after a fashion" there just next to it. It was meant to refer to the game's design and communication with the player, not literal advertising by marketing teams. I apologise if I made it sound confusing.
>>337246490
>comparing a game you like to BioWare shit
Name any game with narrative "choices" that doesn't resort to explicit button-prompts for them.
>1) it's a major theme of the story that there is, in fact, always a choice
That's complete bullshit. It portrays everything as an inevitable event. The only choice is who to blame it on and how to handle it internally.
>>337243987
yes thanks for the the pic
>>337246324
>The writers very specifically said
The writers for this game said a lot of very interesting things, some of which completely contradict others.
>>337246736
Only Mass Effect games have interrupts, and those aren't the only choices they have
>>337246324
>>337246954
Also this.
>>337242095
The Beginner's Guide was almost really cool except that the narrator gives the most amateur high school drama club performance. The ending 'breakdown' of the narrator is total cringe and had me laughing when otherwise it would have been really intriguing. It's like the voice actor/developer pulls out a prop skull and starts soliloquiying to it with the most ineffective self-importance, it's just not convincing.
>>337246490
>1) it's a major theme of the story that there is, in fact, always a choice
I mean, I really have no idea how you could fuck up this badly in your reading of the game. It never once suggests anything could've gone differently. It repeatedly affirms that your choices don't matter (it even gives you sarcastically-named achievements for either one, such as "Show Mercy" or "Save a Bullet" for whether to finish off a man you inadvertently crushed beneath a flaming oil rig), and the protagonist even flat-out fucking says "SOMETIMES YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE" after White Phosphorus, which itself is the epitome of inevitability.
>>337246954
That helicopter shit reminds me, there's an article that talks about how shittily vidya stories are cobbled together with the specific example of spec ops
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2172-no-trans-characters-6-realities-writing-video-games.html
yes it's cracked and it has a SJW clickbait title but I couldn't give less of a fuck
>>337246212
Of course. You're not learning how to properly manage your reaction to the feeling of anger when you do that. You're just reinforcing the behavior.
>>337247138
I feel you empathised too hard with Walker. His teammates remind him on several occasions that there is, in fact, a choice. Walker himself is the only one opposed to the idea.
>SOMETIMES YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE
Yep, because the only alternative is fighting infinitely respawning waves of snipers. How does that fit into the narrative?
>>337247138
>the choice is to stop playing and walk away :^)
>>337247257
>Cracked
fuck off with that shit
SUPER
HOT
SUPER
HOT
SUPER
HOT
>Literally rubs the plot in your face
>"YOU ARE NOT IN CONTROL BEEP BOOP"
Nothing was subtle about it.
itt: plebs who don't understand that art doesn't have to be aesthetically pleasing to be thought-provoking and not realizing that coming away from an experience stubbornly refusing to believe that it had any significance says more about them than the art piece.
>>337247520
nope, read it m8
it shows that the story's just made up as they go along from unrelated shit
>hurr durr but I'll give them an adblocked view
>>337239515
The problem is that once you realize that, you also become aware that the game gives you no other choice. It is completely linear and you can't prevent any of the tragedies the game gives you shit for. So you continue playing and the game constantly insults you for doing the only thing it allows you to do. The only other choice is to quit and never finish it.
>>337247409
I also have no idea how idiots got that out of the game. At one pivotal point the voice in Walker's head screams "STOP, FUCKING STOP" and so does the unusually textless loading screen at that point, at the precipice of his descent into insanity, and of course you know, that's how you know, you sure as hell ain't gonna stop. That's where the game really shifts into greatness.
People always compare it thoughtlessly to Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now, but a much more apt parallel is Bring Me The Head of Alfredo Garcia.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HPaUPU9xdgM
THESE PEOPLE WILL ALL DIE
>>337236293
>>It's sexy
That was the whole point of that look though Anon.
She wants your dick
>>337247646
Video games are not art tho.
>>337247841
>you can't prevent any of the tragedies the game gives you shit for. So you continue playing and the game constantly insults you for doing
You are projecting your own effeminate bitch self onto the game. The game enables you to be a mass murderer, far more intelligently and intimately than any game ever has, far beyond the shallow trash of Postal and Hatred, and it does not guilt you for it. You are projecting your own guilt onto the game because you are a bitch who had no business playing a high-impact hyperviolence killing adventure. Stop talking about it.
>>337247646
> coming away from an experience stubbornly refusing to believe that it had any significance says more about them than the art piece.
If they deny it has any merit, they are arguing it's not art in the first place. They are not being stubborn, they just aren't convinced there is anything there.
>>337247646
>implying people should interrupt their genuine reaction to a piece to congratulate the art object for making them think
>genuine reaction to a piece is ignorant if it doesn't celebrate the work for causing that reaction
>>337248224
>Stop talking about it.
I wish we all would.
>>337248147
>You'll never be haunted by a qt ghost girl that wants to bear your childrenMore horrifying then it sounds to be honest no matter what manga or doujins tell you
>>337248224
I hope this is satire.
>Game claims it's the missing link
>Only thing missing is half the game
>game tries to get a reaction out of you every moment
>it's so saturated and poorly written it fails most of time
>>337248502
Far less satirical than retards somehow getting the impression the game is "anti-war" because it went and gone did it too damn hard.
>>337248224
>The game enables you to be a mass murderer, far more intelligently and intimately than any game ever has
Hotline Miami does it better. And spec ops has shit gameplay,
>>337234395
>mfw i tripped on shrooms before seeing the movie
>mfw i knew the twist from the very beginning because of what shrooms taught me
>watching it with that in mind made me think the movie was trying to tell me that I am the one in Jacob's position.
>action focused game with a generic B movie plot
>it's filled with feels
>>337236098
>them hooked up to a goddamn MRI machine while they watch the movie
That would make it less accurate if anything you dolt.
>>337248990
No, Hotline Miami does not "do it better" with the stupid secret collectible easter egg ending literally having you meet the devs for them to call you out. That is retarded. So is the game, once the meme aesthetic and hype music washes over you.
>>337232843
kek
>game doesn't try to be deep
>fans shit out headcanon to create depth
>everyone else starts taking that headcanon seriously
>>337232690
CONGRATULATIONS
>>337249857
>headcanon
>>>/tumblr/
>>337236452
I d-did e-enjoy fear2
>>337232891
>the plot is about adam & eve
>not deep
yeah ok anon
>>337249979
>asscanon
>>>/urmom/
>>337240530
You do know many of the influences to Evangelion is western media right? Including David Lynch.
>>337249445
>No, Hotline Miami does not "do it better" with the stupid secret collectible easter egg ending literally having you meet the devs for them to call you out.
This is good. It asks you why you are such a total faggot and trying play for the meaning of the story you think must exist. Hotline miami 2 actually made a solid story however.
You are clearly wrong about the intent of spec ops anyway. The devs have even made it clear. regardless of your head canon.
>>337249979
>knowing tumblr jargon
>>>/myspace/
>>337250168
>The devs have even made it clear
No, they haven't.
Besides that, Death of the Author.
>>337233625
3deep5me
>>337242095
>What was Dead Money
>What was the Legion
>What was every DLC except OWB
It's edgy, the game. It's also shit.
>>337250386
No fuck you. I won't stop incorporating the author's intention in my opinion ust because some random retard writes a book about how it doesn't matter
>>337248147
>boss fight is a hallucination while she basically rapes you the entire time
Could this happen today?
>>337250834
It's there clearly even without confirmation. It's very heavy handed in fact. There just isn't a good argument that this isn't the intent.
>>337250834
Having "the author's intention" is external and separate from the work and ultimately, inevitably does injustice to it.
>game is apolitical
>fans insert political agenda anyway
>>337251135
>I think I'll make something to say this thing I wanna say
>NOOOOOOOPE YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU WANTED TO SAY
>game doesn't try to be deep at all
>is
>>337251127
The only times the game "breaks the fourth wall" are during the loading screens which already formally break the fourth wall, and it only does so out of BLACK HUMOR. They are ironic zingers, all of them, and obviously so. All the bitches who can't handle this game don't get it.
The game even parodies the idea of lowering the difficulty on death with a mock option. "Do you feel like a hero yet?" is not a condemnation; it's a sarcastic comment and a good joke. The whole game is about reveling in pure violence and subverting the moralizing and "hero" mentality that plays out in everything else.
>>337251230
That is a totally legitimate reaction, though?
The problem with incorporating the author's stated intent is that it pretends that authors can't FUCKING LIE. It assumes sincerity. Nothing an author says about it is as honest as the work itself, and no one gives a fuck what anyone has to say unless they've MADE SOMETHING to express it first.
>>337233015
>hon hon! I am monsieur robot, le chatte destructeur!
God fucking bless Japan.
>>337236150
>Game has beefy mc large huge guys using chainsaw guns to tear aliens a new one while they sink cities with a GIANT WOOORM and you explode people with a satalite weapon
>Somehow this translates to trying to be deep because occasionally the narrative tries to be entertaining
>>337236293
>Game tries to be scary
>It is, but it's also sexy
>>337233141
You fucking cocksucker. Warcraft was way before WoW and it used to be about something else than gear swag, mindless dailies and slaying War II/III era characters left and right.
>>337247918
>I also have no idea how idiots got that out of the game
>>337247918
That is what the devs intended, you fucktard.
>>337252056
>Game is horrifying and scary
>It gets it's own doujin http://nhentai.net/g/129969/
>>337251230
Forgetting the author doesn't mean you're trying to establish the author's
intent without considering the author, it means you're experiencing the work personally, without considering the author's intent.
If you don't kill the author in some way then the piece can never be more than an author's attempt to make you think like he does.
Spec ops
>>337252267
>Tfw there's so little good silent hill monster porn
;_;
>>337252161
See >>337251624
Death of the Author.
And no wonder since the writer was only ever interviewed by moralizing manwo journalists who steered the questions to get an anti-war response.
From the game, the only clear objective is subverting the typical pandering / moralizing premises that inform every other game. You are, finally, not a fucking hero. The game succeeds and exceeds in that in every way it can.
Even having you ask yourself why you enjoy this (answer: because it's fucking awesome) only reinforces the greatness here, as it is asked, which is to say, with sarcastic zingers.
>>337245248
yes it is, you fucking retard. holy shit
its also a bad one
Spec Ops: a bad game, but a decent kino.
>>337252405
Tell me about it..
I could go for some tumor head nurse porn
>Game tries to be sad.
>Ends up being soul crushingly depressing.
JUST
>>337233898
>no one does it to you like Roman Polanski
o i am laffin
>>337252516
Dude, the game having a sense of humor about it does not in any way nullify or negatively portray the awesomely visceral bloodletting that steadily ramps up in intensity and satisfaction over the course of the game. No other games do this. No other games take violence as passionately and deeply as Spec Ops does; they always pass it off with some cartoonish excuse.
>>337252487
People use the author's claims, which are usually supported with the text, as evidence for their interpretation.
> because it's fucking awesome
rebutted by the fact that the game has shallow and generic gameplay and level design.
>You are, finally, not a fucking hero
you're just an anti-hero. This isn't anything new.
>>337232241
>kill humans is bad
>``kill 100 pepople achieved!´´
>>337248496
Read Tasogare Otome x Amnesia. Best qt ghost waifu ever.
>>337252856
No, an anti-hero still operates under moral principles. See: all the capeshit movies these days, where all the protagonists are "anti-heroes" with the same calculatingly curated morality as the mass audience they're marketed to. Batman, Deadpool.
Walker is actually fucking insane and the game exposes the amorality (not immorality) of the "hero" concept, which no other games think about doing. At no point does the game condemn Walker or you. Even the bystanders aren't innocent and clearly deserve and hasten about their doom. You're just the catalyst of the ongoing catastrophe.
Walker did nothing wrong; he just made it happen quicker and more awesomely.
Notice also how everyone who speaks negatively of the gameplay does so as an afterthought, without meaningful comparison to other third-person shooters (which they probably don't care for anyway, as they are moralizing bitches).
>>337253414
>No, an anti-hero still operates under moral principles.
That's a huge ass pulling assumption you make.
GTA 5 is a pinnacle of storytelling then.
>>337241765
>why would you do that?
because a bunch of morons with apparently shit taste told me it would be good.
it wasn't
>>337253921
>GTA 5 is a pinnacle of storytelling then.
That goes without saying, and the protagonists of GTA V aren't "anti-heroes" either.
>>337253921
He also seems to be going for some relativist moral outlook. It doesn't matter if someone thinks what they are doing is moral if it isn't. And crazy (walter included) also aren't amoral, they just have warped perceptions of reality.
>>337254132
I mean, how could GTA V not be a pinnacle of storytelling in gaming? It has incredible characters with solid gold writing and the best voice acting in the medium, and it is nearly never not interesting.
>>337254357
>I mean, how could GTA V not be a pinnacle of storytelling in gaming?
Because Tactics Ogre: Let us cling together exists.
>>337254132
>the protagonists of GTA V aren't "anti-heroes" either
How so?
>>337254274
Spec Ops: The Line takes place in a setting that has, itself, moved past any notion of morality being useful before Walker even arrived.
>>337233148
I can't believe that Tale of Tales isn't satire.
>>337254516
An anti-hero still strives for something essentially moral; they just go about it in unconventional ways. Again, capeshit movies.
There's nothing moral in the actions or objectives of GTA V's characters and the game doesn't pretend there is. They want what we all want: money, and there's nothing more separate from morality than money.
>>337232162
Dark Souls series
>>337254573
The usefulness of morality doesn't stop it from existing, it just makes it a hindrance. Walker is quite tormented by many of his deeds and his perceived lack of choice in what he does.
>>337236267
why did the US stay in the middle east for over a decade and continue throwing money and lives away?
>DURRR WE ALREADY PAID A FEW BILLION WUTS WE OPPOSED TO DO, JUST LEAVE??? DURRR
>>337254890
>An anti-hero still strives for something essentially moral
That's your own retarded definition of the term. Engineered to reinforce your no less retarded narrative.
>game starts with Nietzsche's quote
And now you have no doubts the story will suck
>>337232241
I feel bad for all the plebs who think this is some sort of masterclass in storytelling
>>337254890
GTAV started so good with this fargo-ish heist flashback and then developed into absolutely fucking nothing. You can see trails of a great story butchered in development here and there, implied by characters used once or twice, nonsensical endings and even ost track names, but it ended up feeling so unnatural and just plain uninteresting.
>>337254890
What is moral about what Kratos is striving for?
>An anti-hero still strives for something essentially moral; they just go about it in unconventional ways
The same can be said of virtually all villains. An d of course just because they perceive their goal to be moral doesn't mean it actually is.
>>337245761
There's also been a comprehensive study indicating that 2/3rds of psychology studies can not be replicated. I mean it still beats religion but that's fairly damning.
>>337255364
>>337255364
>and then developed into absolutely fucking nothing
Yes, and?
It's a thirty-hour slice-of-life, just that those lives happen to be way more interesting than yours. It succeeds.
>>337232241
>Spec Ops The Line tries desperately to make me feel guilty about virtual murder and playing a violent video game
>entire game is built around the message and not the other way around
>feel nothing
>meanwhile a game made four years before The Line and I'm pretty sure didn't care about pushing any kind of message, made me feel a million times worse for killing enemies, simply by the way they were depicted
>>337255119
The term is inherently retarded because it assumes all protagonists are heroes by default; that there is something inherently heroic in being a protagonist.
Consider that Trevor's introduction is killing off the whole cast of a previous GTA game.
>>337255792
>Spec Ops The Line tries desperately to make me feel guilty about virtual murder
No, you are just a weak little bitch projecting onto the game. Read the thread.
>>337255481
>What is moral about what Kratos is striving for?
I wouldn't know; I don't play shitty Western bemups.
>>337255649
>Yes, and?
I would rather prefer a good story rather than a 'slice-of-life'. And it's not a particularly interesting one. Snatch comes to mind as an interesting one for comparison, I dunno. But not GTAV. It was great and all but the story is piece of shit m8
>>337237367
>>337237492
>>337237497
>>337232241
>more people who didn't play the game not getting the point
4 years later and this is still going on. The game even lets you say "nah fuck you" at the end.
>>337232162
Braid wasn't bad though
>>337237928
>NPCs who mumble nonsensical bullshit
>woo nothing is expected or conventional in the land of wind and ghosts
very deep
>>337256070
>the message is "just don't play it"
10/10
>>337255802
>Hero--a person, typically a man, who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.
unless the protagonist doesn't get anything done, though the journey or the conclusion they are a hero. Anyone who is an exemplar is some virtue, or achieves something great, regardless of its moral applications can be considered a hero.
>>337255802
>The term is inherently retarded because it assumes
>aka something that conradicts my opinionated ramblings is objectively retarded
Well, it's you who used it first, then, when confronted about your headcanon interpretation of it you go HURR IT'S RETARDED ANYWAY?
Hahaha, how can you argue with a straight face about anything after that?
You are retarded, /tv/ retard.
>>337256070
The game literally lets you open fire on the evac squad sent to rescue you, just for the sake of consistency, and somehow bitches pretend this isn't just fucking metal and is somehow criticizing them or war.
There has never been a game more widely misinterpreted than Spec Ops, and it's always by the same moralizing bitches who have no business (or pleasure) in playing videogames.
>>337256325
It's not. That's a retarded interpretation and anyone who thinks that shouldn't play videogames, period.
>>337256419
seems more like a /lit/ tard to me. Although /v/eddit isn't in any position to criticize boards.
>>337246428
>The avatar is not a character
What in the world am I reading
>>337233120
>it's that the jab they're taking at player autonomy
I don't know where this meme comes from, you're clearly supposed to start distancing yourself from Walker. He's pretty fucking crazy.
I think the "message" was to show the dissonance between dudebro shooters and what soldiers actually go through.
>>337233494
Hey Reddit
>>337256325
That's not it at all.
>>337256465
This, the story is far more about how you or the character RESPONDS to being railroaded into doing terrible things rather than being a dickhead for doing them yourself.
I mean fuck it's obvious throughout the whole thing that Konrad is meant to be the writer's intent in a sense, which is why you're given the choice to say "no fuck you it's not my fault" at the end.
And then even after that there's the epilogue, where now, you CAN end the game without killing more people as there's no longer any creative director hanging over your shoulder. The whole game up to that point is how you feel about being railroaded into this shit, and then that final epilogue is about what you'd do without someone forcing your hand.
But I guess people who just read the loading screens feel like they know the story.
>>337256419
You just used "opinionated" as a pejorative.
>>337256571
So, instead of tiptoeing around it, enlighten us.
What is the message?
>>337256795
You don't actually think this is an accurate representation of what soldiers actually go though do you?
>>337256321
>nonsensical *cryptic bullshit
fixed
>>337234071
>>337234272
>>337252819
Is Roman Polanski famous for some misdeeds? I have no idea who he is.
>>337256834
>let's make people think about shitty shooters on rails
>by making them play a shitty shooter on rails and giving them a couple of "choices" along the way to make them feel bad
>>337237367
>even though story makes it look like you made a choice
It's been a while since i played it but i remember Walker talking to Lugo and saying there's no choice. They constantly repeat they didn't have a choice through the game too.
>>337257064
He's a pedo.
>>337257064
he RAPED.
>>337257152
Is that even a response to what I said?
>>337232251
Was it? I didn't notice, I was too busy staring at the ass and dace of my personal disney princess.
>>337257172
And yet, in the reality of the game world, they did often have a choice. The player just wasn't given access to it.
>>337256939
The message is that it's a fucking metal third-person-shooter that doesn't moralize and lets you kill literally everyone, including even yourself or the evac squad sent to rescue you, should you choose.
"Message" is always used by faggots like you as some heavy-handed moral statement, and Spec Ops has none. That's the message. Don't play Spec Ops if you don't like gloriously gory shooters.
THE ONLY PEOPLE who say Spec Ops has shit gameplay ONLY DO SO as an afterthought, after they bitch about the game being "a guilt trip". Every time. People who actually enjoy murder simulators actually enjoy Spec Ops: The Line.
>>337257337
You keep talking about being railroaded into doing things and giving the player an "out" at the end as if it's some subtle message, when it's hamfisted as fuck. It doesn't help that the gameplay is shit.
"dmc: Devil May Cry has Shakespearean writing"
>>337256970
Of course not, i'm pretty sure hallucinations aren't as vivid as what Walker sees either. It's pretty romanticized but i believe what they went through would fuck up most people's head.
>>337257431
Walker is a character with an established personality, he takes choices on his own. If i remember correctly all the choices you take in the game turn out to be meaningless since everyone dies anyway.
The one choice they could have given the player that would have impacted the story would be to turn around after finding survivors, but that would have been out of character for Walker.
![Jason waiting patiently for you to press [X] to confirm that you're not a fucking retard holy shit.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WPmfzre.jpg "Jason waiting patiently for you to press [X] to confirm that you're not a fucking retard holy shit")
>>337242550
>This is psychology 101.
>>337257560
Yeah the gameplay is pretty bad, but that's not what I was talking about.
And I never said it was a subtle message, stop chatting shit. I'm saying the game wasn't about assblasting the player for being such a terrible person, but a story about how a fucked up man deals with being forced into some horrible shit. That's why you get all the PTSD, getting progressively angrier, and the whole moment at the end where he decides whether to blame himself or the conditions he was put in.
I'm not commenting on how good or bad it is, just that people try to turn it into something it isn't to make themselves seem smart.
>>337257560
>as if it's some subtle message, when it's hamfisted as fuck
You completely misread that guy's post, and this whole thread, and continue to be deluded into thinking the game is moralizing (hence "hamfisted"). It's not moralizing. You are.
And you literally just did what I called out in advance, a post above yours:
THE ONLY PEOPLE who say Spec Ops has shit gameplay ONLY DO SO as an afterthought, after they bitch about the game being "a guilt trip". Every time. People who actually enjoy murder simulators actually enjoy Spec Ops: The Line.
>>337257554
You got mad.
>The message is that it's a fucking metal third-person-shooter that doesn't moralize and lets you kill literally everyone, including even yourself or the evac squad sent to rescue you, should you choose.
So, it has no coherent message, apart from it being a shooter? Are you serious?
First, wtf is metal supposed to mean in this context.
Second, and how any of this new or interesting or worth of any praise?
>THE ONLY PEOPLE who say Spec Ops has shit gameplay ONLY DO SO as an afterthought
You need to tone down the blatant generalisations. Gameplay is nothing special. Pretty mediocre.
Ok gibs and animations and that's it.
Red Orchestra has all that and more.
>murder simulators
It's hard to take this seriously.
>game tries to be an exclusive
>it isn't
>>337258119
>>337258095
I'm only arguing as I hate people who look for depth where there is none. If you agree then I'm done here.
>>337232690
Whats wrong anon, 2 deep 4 u?
>>337258162
Every other shooter (save for trash like Postal or Hatred) tries to apply some nationalistic or moralistic motivation, some sensibility to the slaughter. Spec Ops brutally and brilliantly subverts this in every way it can.
It might only make sense if you've played all the other Spec Ops games before it, which apparently only I have.
>>337232690
but that's wrong
>>337258119
>People who actually enjoy murder simulators actually enjoy Spec Ops: The Line.
Only if they have low standards and are easily entertained with bad gameplay.
People focus on the story being shit because it's the reason for all the praise, and many claim that the game is purposefully poorly designed to feel more like a generic shooter.
>>337258767
Please tell me how the gameplay in Spec Ops is in any way lacking.
>>337253398
Already have, manga had a great ending too.
>Let's go to heaven together Yuiichi!
>>337250452
get fucked
>>337258718
>Every other shooter (save for trash like Postal or Hatred) tries to apply some nationalistic or moralistic motivation, some sensibility to the slaughter
Probably because it always exists. There is an innate sacredness to bloodshed.
>>337259028
It wasn't really lacking but there wasn't much to it either. It was bare bones and average as fuck, even for a cover shooter.
At least the level design was pretty good, except for that part with the shitty boats.
>>337258718
>Every other shooter (save for trash like Postal or Hatred) tries to apply some nationalistic or moralistic motivation
Except it's untrue. It's just you being delusional and unable to separate reality from video games.
People who play shooter games play them for sport, not for some moralistic fulfilment.
Keep your hilarious projections in check.
So,again, The Line has neither a good story nor good gameplay?
Looks like it's a shit game then.
>>337259028
It wasn't as metal as you're making it out to be.
>game
>>337233015
Can someone remind me again what was the point of Rachel's character? All the other teammembers have their moment of glory/important interaction with Marshall, but iir, she doesn't.
>>337259028
Oh wow you actually think it's good. I've never heard even the most diehard shill claim this.
It has a whole host of issues. Dumb AI, low skill ceiling, poor enemy placement, lack of enemy variety, innovates nothing of its own etc etc. It's lackluster in every regard. Most claim it's a caricature of these types of games. If this isn't self-evident to you, play more games.
>>337259439
Spec Ops: The Line's gameplay stands above everything that isn't Gears of War or Max Payne.
"Average" is Uncharted, and it gets worse from there. Kane & Lynch 2, The Order: 1886...
>>337259496
You can open fire on the evac squad sent to rescue you just to be consistent.
There is nothing more metal than that.
>>337259489
Every multiplayer would satisfy his autistic praise of an amoral shooter. He just really really likes how he thinks it's self aware.
>>337237367
>bawww why can't I avoid doing bad things!?
Maybe because you're a fucking soldier in a city full of people who want to kill you? Jesus Christ you're the kind of people who come back from one tour of Afghanistan PTSD'd out the ass and incapable of recovering.
>>337260068
Multiplayer games don't have narrative. Spec Ops has a narrative, and a rather involved one at that.
>>337259028
This has to be false flagging. I really liked Spec Ops but the gameplay is bar far the worst part. Run of the mill at best.
>>337259745
Tell me any TPS games that stand above it other than Max Payne and Gears of War. Maybe Vanquish, at a stretch, but that game is lacking in weight and shooting robots is inferior to shooting mans.
>>337259751
You really think the gunplay in SO is better than Uncharted?
>>337260196
But you already said there is no message and everything is about the gameplay, so we can disregard your post.
Are you legit mentally ill?
I usually don't throw around accusations like this seriously here. But not this time.
>>337260242
You are really underestimating how trash and unheard-of most TPS games are.
>>337260090
People don't feel bad, they are confused as to why the game is trying to make them feel bad, and offering alternative "moral" routes that are blocked by technical restrictions. Infinitely respawing enemies is retarded, they could have just made trying an instant death.
>>337260385
>TPS
Why exactly TPS? You can force TPS in Red Orchestra.
>>337241775
This puzzle game is the star of indie darlings dude. It's also fantastic.
>>337233945
Their shitty culture breeds an unbelievable amount of stress, which is why they keep killing themselves and they've stopped fucking each other. Chilling out isn't part of their vocabulary, so of course they'll go off the deep end over some stupid shit from their favourite TV show.
>>337260423
It is significantly weightier and more visceral than Uncharted's T-rated headshots and wacky ragdoll flinging in place of the good shit. The cover system is also more consistent than Uncharted's catch-all circle button frequently sticking to the wrong side of things and the inability to turn around corners in cover in that game.
Spec Ops's few turret sections are also superior to the mindblowingly terrible jetski & explosive barrel dodging sequences of the original Uncharted.
>>337259751
Spec Ops: The Line's gameplay is hardly anything more than mediocre.
It literally is the most mediocre gameplay of all time.
EVERYTHING you do there has been done way better by other games that are older and younger
>>337260385
> Maybe Vanquish, at a stretch
lol
The vast majority of TPS are better than spec ops gameplay wise. It would be hard to find one that isn't. The problem is relatively few, modern military shooters in it's style even exist, because they tend to be FPS. MGS4/5 is probably the closest comparable example of something with vastly better gameplay and level design.
>game tries to be ??????
>it's ??????
>game tries to criticize mobile games
>using game mechanics from mobile games
>regardless of the fact literally everyone knows mobile games are a waste of your time in the grand scheme of things
>>337260979
>The problem is relatively few, modern military shooters in it's style even exist
There are shitloads.
If you really want to see mediocre, play Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel.
>>337259751
Nigga, the only thing it's got that ME or Binary Domain don't is dropping sand on dudes. I'd hardly call that as good as GoW or Max Payne.
>>337260481
We aren't comparing it to other TPS gameplay to cry Tu quoque. We are saying the gameplay and design are shit in itself. Not being so bad comparatively doesn't make it not shit.
>>337233943
Not him but I actually stopped.
Shitty fucking game.
>>337261086
>game tries to be ??????
>you gain brouzouf
>>337257554
>doesn't moralize
>pic related
Even better is the loading screen which says "this is all your fault"
How do you fail basic reading... I was gonna put comprehension here, but the I realised that implys you read anything at all.
>>337240530
That's not saying much.
>>337261529
That is literally Walker's (insane) consciousness speaking to himself, and you can even deny it in-game by shooting the mirror. Blaming yourself is a natural thought of anything bad that can happen when you're in the middle of it.
>but the I realised that implys you read anything at all.
>the I
>realised
>implys
The irony is killing me.
>>337260385
>Maybe Vanquish, at a stretch
Vanquish's gameplay is undisputably better than Spec Ops'.
>>337261842
He clearly meant then and not the.
>>337261529
That's Walker talking to Konrad you gigantic retard.
There's also a loading screen that blames Walker for what happened if you're going to base your argument around that.
>>337260812
I guess we'd have to agree to disagree.
>>337261529
Are you retarded? You post the pic of the moment you get the chance to say "no it's not my fault" as the end fucking statement. Of all things to shitpost you choose the one thing that disproves your point.
>>337262103
I dunno, senpai, I'd much rather rip-and-tear huge guts than go plink-plink against giant lifebars above robots.
>>337232241
The writer behind the game got shit on by his boss who said the intro was going to be fast forward so he said fuck you the Mc died
>>337262332
That's not gameplay that's just superficial shit. I've played both, and while The Line doesn't play terribly, it's not comparable to Vanquish in the slightest in the actual gameplay not just "you shoot dudes not robots".
>>337262332
Because you're an autist that values how edgy something is over the gameplay itself.
at least play a decent hyper violent game that isn't pseudo-intellectual trash, like spatterhouse or some shit.
>>337232162"I feel bad and sad because I'm a bad man."
>>337262545
>the intro was going to be fast forward
What
>>337262610
>That's not gameplay that's just superficial shit
Why don't we all just play Super 3D Noah's Ark instead of Wolfenstein 3D then
>>337262785
Screencaps were posted in this thread. Look up.
>>337262627
If I am looking at the lifebars of the enemies I'm shooting moreso than the actual enemies I'm shooting, the game has fundamentally failed as a shooter.
>>337262879
The reason has nothing to do with the gameplay.
Do you even know what gameplay is?
>>337262879
What the fuck is your point? What are you talking about?
>>337262879
>>337263092
He's probably one of those people who thinks level design = how a level looks
>>337263078
No it hasn't, you are just wary of the health because you think it's important. Focusing on how much HP someone has left excessively be it on a shooter or a fighting game or an action rpg like dark souls is sure to get you killed, unless the game is so easy that you shouldn't have to worry about how much HP they have left at all.
>>337234818
yeah, it's called re-watching it and catching things you did not on your first watch and its great
and no it isn't the same as being spoiled
I pity the fool that knows the end to Shutter Island without watching it
Go ahead fools, watch Shutter Island!
>>337263078
>shooter
>lifebars
wut
>>337263092
Nobody knows what "gameplay" is because it's a buzzword non-indicative of anything specific or meaningful.
It also implies that the visuals are somehow inessential to the PLAY of the GAME, which is retarded. Using words like "superficial" to dismiss the visual component of a game in favor of "gameplay" is retarded.
My point is that Super 3D Noah's Ark is almost the exact same game mechanically as Wolfenstein 3D, but visuals are crucial and why Wolfy 3D was significant and Noah's Ark is a worthless obscurity.
>>337263078
Holy shit are you seriously unable to multi-task?
You shouldn't be paying more attention to their life-bars, that's just there to glance at. You barely need to pay attention to it at all.
I can't imagine how you'd cope with a boss fight in an action game.
>>337263590
Vanquish has visible lifebars above all enemies, which is necessary because there is no visceral satisfaction or real sense of damage otherwise. You go plink-plink against sponge robots.
>>337263406
I know I've watched it but I can't even remember the ending. My memory makes me feel like a cripple at times.But at least I can replay games as much as I want
>>337263781
>robots
>viscera
You might want to revise.
>>337263608
>Nobody knows what "gameplay" is because it's a buzzword non-indicative of anything specific or meaningful.
holy fuck just go back to watching indie films retard.
>My point is that Super 3D Noah's Ark is almost the exact same game mechanically as Wolfenstein 3D, but visuals are crucial and why Wolfy 3D was significant and Noah's Ark is a worthless obscurity.
you know noahs ark fucking plagiarized wolfenstein right? If it actually invented the gameplay and level design it would be praised and it would be surreal that some random unlicensed christian game invented it.
>>337263612
My point is that a properly visceral shooter does not need lifebars. Gears of War has actual gore to indicate damage, as it should be. If a shooter is using lifebars, it has fundamentally failed as a shooter and I might as well be playing a MOBA like Paragon (fantastic btw).
I dunno what you autists are about, but I play shooters to PRETEND TO SHOOT THINGS AND WATCH THEM DIE, not watch holographic rectangles shrink forever.
>>337263781
>visceral
Oh, so instead of talking about gameplay you're just spouting marketing buzzwords.
The few cool instances of The Line gameplay are few and far between, the sand, shooting out skylights, all that shit is so rare and never really a core mechanic. For the majority of the game it's a standard stop and pop third person cover shooter with no unique guns or grenades or what have you. If these had been more constant it would have been much more fun to play.
Vanquish not only has more enemy variety but you don't have to just stick behind cover, boost-dodging around while reload cancelling, shooting your grenades mid air in slow mo and delivering some somersault kick to an enemy is far more satisfying than any of The Line's gameplay.
I actually really liked The Line's story, but you're an idiot if you think its gameplay is among the best of its genre.
>>337263889
You can totally have a sense of metal gore, of warping and shredding and twisting metal, severing cables and really ripping apart robots. Vanquish tries, somewhat, but it's still just plink-plink-plink against bigass lifebars.
>>337264214
So? That's the most irrelevant complaint. You don't have to look at the life bars, they're just there. Vanquish does also indicate damage particularly through its sound design and a bit of visual design.
Gameplay is more than just "is there a life bar". That's like saying Ninja Gaiden is shit because bosses have life bars.
>>337264214
>. Gears of War has actual gore to indicate damage
it just indicates that you are dealing damage, not how much or how much life they have left. Not letting the player who is a deliberate design choice.
When will Alan Resnick just make a full game experience? He's done some interactive little games, but so far their only purpose is to add some minor "flavor" to an existing work.
>game comes off as a silly parody game
>actually gets deep
>>337233027
>I'm glad someone agrees with me, that game is shit
Oh yeah, because that's such a contrarian opinion, no one thinks that. /groan
This whole fucking board hates that game, how new are you?
>>337245761
Says the fucking nerds who sit at their computer all day, and the fucking feminists who do sweet fuck all too.
Pick up any competitive sport
>>337233027
First day here?
>>337265000
>/groan
>>337246212
Then why are quiet people usually the most angriest? Look at the catholic church and all it's fucked up shit because of the repression it enforces.
Teachers yell and scream everyday but they're actually the least angriest people I know. In fact they tend to take things less personally and be way more calm in general than most people
>>337265346
> believing jewish media lies about the Catholic church
>>337232690
>mfw it's too deep for him
>>337232162
This is why I love DaS. It's like a huge lake. You can skim the surface, kill bosses and fuck shit up or you can take a scuba suit and go balls deep into a story. Currently playing DaS2 and I still have NO IDEA what the fuck I am doing.
>>337232162
>every indie game ever
Witness, Lisa, Undertale, Thomas was alone, Dear Esther, Stanley Parable are all victims of this shit.
>>337265802
nah priests are fucked up people. you can tell just talking to them that they're on the edge of a fucking meltdown all the time. that weird passive aggressive tone, the way they touch people is just fucking off
same with all straight edge people who don't drink or suppress their emotions, some of them hide it well. but you just get the feeling that beneath it all there's nothing but the empty abyss of a psycho who feels absolutely nothing about anything
normal people get drunk, have fun, are competitive, are aggressive, want to fuck etc
>timid people in this thread thinking all violence is wrong and never justified, all aggression is bad, anger is bad, sadface
fuck off, until we live in a world where everyone lives under one government and there's a control chip implanted in every human there's going to be competition
aggressive behavior, anger is a response to that competition. even fucking animals like dogs have it.
the more you do something the more control you have over it unless you're a psychopath in which case you're basically fucked regardless of how much you do it.
lucky for us we live in a civilized world now that has basically been constructed for us by stronger men than we can hope to be
the psychos just need to keep their skin suits on while the rest of us get on with our lives
>>337267093
You're just a degenerate, projecting your own desire for vice onto others, who are, on the surface, exemplars of virtue.
People with good character don't experience much, if any temptation.
>>337267093
>the more you do something the more control you have over it
>anon gives addiction advice
>>337267093
Are you black?
>>337267093
>normal people get drunk, have fun, are competitive, are aggressive, want to fuck etc
We live in a deeply troubled society. T.kaczynski.
>>337267093
Holy shit I'm not even catholic but this is quite a pathetic example of a degenerate projecting into everyone who's different i.e. a waste of space
>games can't be anything more than pacman
Wheter you like it or not, there's nothing wrong with trying different narratives. How deep the experience is, it's all up to you. It's all the same if I'm half paying attention while eating a sandwich. There's definitely cases where the game just sends an unjustified stupid message, but I fail to see how a little game like The Graveyard fails to be whatever it is, which wasn't too ambitious in the first place.
>>337267093
>aggressive behavior, anger is a response to that competition. even fucking animals like dogs have it
Of course they do because it's their instinct which they have no control over, and the more you give into it the less human and more animal you are.
>>337244720
>legitimate psychology
Kek. Nearly all well known psychologists just made shit up based on their observations, with no actual basis in science. Freud, Kinsey, Milgram? All bullshit. It speaks volumes to the validity of the field when snake oil salesmen like Thigpen and Cleckley can have legitimacy.
>not its new-age feminist incarnations
Ironically, the first person in the field that springs to mind with any scientific legitimacy, Maguire, was a woman.
![Gears_of_war_cover_art[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TmVAMgc.jpg "Gears of war cover art[1]")
![300px-Wheatley[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/rHtAMcd.png "300px-Wheatley[1]")
