Was he really the bad guy?
Yeah, he was.
Wind Waker did a great job in fleshing out Ganondorf the tiniest bit past "evil bad man", and the stoicness of King Daphness makes for a real easy surface read of "you were the BAD GUY ALL ALONG!!!", but at its heart, it's not even really comparable to something like Marche being the bad guy in FFTA. Ganondrof is unequivocally the bad guy doing a bad thing.
Why is he so open about his personal issues with this random kid?
>>333637445
especially the reincarnation of a kid who is his arch enemy
Yes, he was kidnapping a bunch of children.
>>333636109
Was this the very same Ganon from OoT? Im not too keen into zelda "lore".
>>333636109
>Ganondorf shows some depthpun intendedin WW
>TP comes out
>Ganondorf back to being a 1-dimensional villain
>>333637730
I'm pretty sure he would have set them free once he found Zelda. He doesnt seem like the kind of guy who would feed them to his bird or something.
>>333636109
Motivation to do bad things for the sake of bad things does not make him good.
>>333637731
Yes. Ganondorf from Ocarina is the same Ganondorf in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess
>>333637745
Yeah I was a little disappointed with him in TP, but his design was great.
>>333637745
Wind Waker/Adult Success timeline is the only one where Ganon has time to reflect on shitty decisions.
>>333637745
Different Ganondorf.
>>333636109
This is the same guy from OOT. What was the Ganondorf controlled future like? Imagine that applied to WW's world if he won but probably even more so since he'd make a wish on the whole Triforce.
>tfw we will never get a Ganondorf spin-off game
>>333638247
I know they're different dorfs, I just wish they wrote him as a better villain with more depth than:
>Takeover Hyrule
>Put monsters everywhere
>Muh triforce
>>333639053
But Anon, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
And apparently absolute wisdom is absolutely useless and absolute courage is absolutely the only useful one, but still! Muh Vengeance!
I wanna play as ganondorf. just go around fucking shit up then go back to my big ass castle and have some Gerudo chick suck me off while I play the organ
It is interesting to think about how Ganondorf changed between OOT and WW. I've even seen people bring the music into it. These two songs for example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNudhwEAwfU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBVbI604erE
The WW version sounds not only tired but like something has been lost. If Ganondorf is still playing this music while you're going through the dungeon, like he was in OOT, then maybe his skills had atrophied. Maybe playing the organ used to bring out some sort of joy in him and while he's trying to recapture that feeling it's just not in him any more.
TLDR: WW Ganondorf is old and tired of this shit but keeps on trucking for some reason.
But this is probably looking too far into things and seeing things that aren't actually there.
>>333640394
>The WW version sounds not only tired but like something has been lost.
That is the essence of WW Ganondorf. Of the three timelines, he's the greatest failure (lost Hyrule after seven years at the hands of Adult Link, was sealed in the Sacred Realm until he came out again, at which point the gods picked up their ball and went home).
It's why, rather than a big fiery rage over King Daphnes stealing the Triforce's wish, he just has a kind of murderous breakdown.
>>333636109
Old jaded Ganondorf alone makes WW the best Zelda game.
>>333637551
WW Link is not a reincarnation nigger did you pay attention to what was being said in the game at all
>>333636109
Yes, yes he did.
Remember, this is the same Ganondorf who took over Hyrule and ran it into the fucking ground.
>>333638247
Same Ganondorf, different outcomes to their story
The WW one is more reflective on his decisions because he's had centuries to spend doing fuckall but thinking about how bad he fucked up to get the world he wanted to rule flooded
>>333639029
>will never be a game where ganon is the good guy
>that's just straight up out of the question thanks to Squidward Sword's plot fuckery
>>333639053
>>Put monsters everywhere
>Hyrule Field in OoT has more monsters when Link's a kid
>>333642173
It's the same guy but different at the same time. They're both the OOT Ganondorf but due to the timeline split they're now different people.
>>333636109
The wind is crying.
>>333637941
Post the doujin
>>333637445
>>333637551
he has been trapped in an abounded kingdom for several decades without any other human.
eventually everybody grows desperate for human interaction
>>333642013
He has "the spirit of the hero". Nobody thinks he's the actual hero until he collects the triumph forks and the Triforce of Courage chooses him. Like how Tetra was the continuation of the royal family in blood (because there always has to be a Zelda), Link is the continuation of the hero in spirit.
It's not literal reincarnation, but it might as well be.
Yes
one line of dialogue is not absolution. He's admitting he was wrong but had no intention of stopping
>>333642594
Does a spirit/soul being reincarnated require a body from the same bloodline it originated in, in this series?
I hope they don't bring him back for Zelda WiiU. I'd like to see a new villain along the lines of Vaati
>>333642747
I don't think so. It seems to with Hylia/Zelda, but Ganondorf basically being a reincarnation of Demise and none of the Heroes having any relation to one another seem to preclude that idea. It's more a matter of "Zelda will always exist because Demise/Ganon will always exist, so a Hero must always exist". It's like a causal necessity that the spirit of the hero always return at crucial moments.
>>333638094
Yup.
TP Ganondorf didn't even do shit yet and he got imprisoned and ritually executed. I mean yeah, we know he WAS going to do all that bad shit in Ocarina, but to him it was like he just had this plan and then some sages showed up and blasted him in the ass. So it makes sense that by TP he was just an mad douchebag who wanted to fuck up everything out of spite.
In WW Dorf had accomplished his goals only to have it all taken from him. He had spent years planning out everything and some kid he THOUGHT he had taken care of shows up and turns out Ganondorf basically handed him the one thing that could ruin his plan on a silver platter.
Then hundreds of years later he finally gets out, is GUARANTEED no hero to ruin shit, and the gods go "FINE WE'RE TAKING OUR TOYS AND LEAVING" and Ganondorf is stuck in Kevin Costner's Water World for even MORE hundreds of years. So he has a long time to sit and reflect on how he kept getting fucked and plan out the perfect way to get his goddamn kingdom.
>>333642594
King of Red lions straight up says he isn't though, conjecture doesn't amount to anything if it contradicts what's said in the game
>>333642747
The only known Link's that are confirmed to be related by blood are OOT Link and TP Link. Every other Link MIGHT be related (Every single one is a descendant of SS Link for sure) but there's no way of confirming that. The only Link that is confirmed to definitely not be related to any other Link is WW link (this contradicts Skyward Sword but fuck it it was made like a decade prior), and he's also confirmed not to have the spirit of the hero so that supports your theory.
>>333643325
And the KoRL later recants after the Triforce of Courage chooses Link. Did you even finish the game?
>>333640394
In my homeland of /co/, we have a word: Hypercrisis. It means basically Death of the Author, but taken to the next level. It doesn't matter what the creator intended, the interpretations and discoveries of the fans are what brings infinite depth to any story or fictional character.
There's no such thing as looking too far into something.
I'm still confused about one thing. If the Gods are so powerful why didn't they actually stop Ganondorf instead of flooding the world? That's like killing someone so no one else can kill them.
>>333643821
Something something Triforce, something sometime wish.
I think the explanation is that Ganondorf possess an inability to die, and without a hero to stop him, the only recourse the Goddesses had was to seal the entire Kingdom of Hyrule to stop him. Or something like that. It's important to remember that the Goddesses are not omnipotent.
>>333643821
My interpretation is that gods' power is like a big hammer, capable of big things that shape worlds, but for little, specific things like killing Dorf they need a scalpel. Link is that scalpel.
This seems like a good place to ask.
So I recently finished Ocarina of time, they say that they are sealing Ganondorf in the Evil realm, and then you go back to being a boy. Is this the splitting of the timelines you guys are on about? Is Ganondorf only sealed within the evil realm for the adult link, and when you go back this is not the case?
>>333643821
He had the Triforce of Power, they probably couldn't directly harm someone who wielded their own holy relic
Or, if it wasn't even the 3 Golden Goddesses who flooded Hyrule, Ganon was already stringer than them, since the Triforce can't be used/combatted by lesser gods like Hylia
>>333644312
Basically. Miyamoto and Aonuma decided to throw a wrench in the cogs by making a "third timeline" where Link fails to defeat Ganondorf.
>>333644312
Yeah that's it.
>>333644312
Exactly. Ganon gets sealed in the Sacred Real corrupted into the (Dark World), and link gets sent back. The future he left behind persists without him, which leads to Ganon breaking out and Hyrule flooding
Back in the past, Link calls the cops on Ganon before he has a chance to do anything, and he gets executed as seen in Twilight Princess. However, because he gets the Triforce of Power in the "Adult" timeline, he also gets it in the "Child" timeline, right as he is dying, which leads up to Twilight Princess.
In the stupid third timeline where the player Game Overs in the final battle, Ganon gets all 3 pieces of the triforce, but still gets sealed in the Dark World. Using the full power of the Triforce, he influences the real world subtly, eventually leading into ALTTP
>>333644524
It's mostly Aonuma's fault because he basically ignores Zelda 1, 2, and ALttP which were originally meant to be a quadrilogy along with OoT. So the "Downfall" timeline is just his dumping ground for everything he doesn't care about and that doesn't fit on either timeline.
>>333645049
OOT was such a better origin story for the series than Skyward Shit
>>333637445
He was gonna fucking murder him anyway.
>>333644524
>>333645049
The downfall timeline makes sense.
ALTTP Link wished to undo the all the damage Ganon caused. Who's to say the Triforce didn't grant that wish by changing the outcome of OoT's final battle for the better?
Also, consider this: as long as Link has the Master Sword, he's pretty much guaranteed to triumph over Ganon, right?
How does the final battle against Ganon in OoT start? With Link having to fight Ganon without the Master Sword.
>>333636109
>Was he really the bad guy?
Considering what he did in OoT? A little bit.
>>333638247
Different timeline, but they're the same one.
>>333643821
Some gods in some lores arent omnipotent. Theyre just really good at one thing. I dont think they were all that powerful in the series. Their only established feats are the creation of the lands. Nothing else really.
If anything, drowning the world just made the world less hospitable for Ganons low level grunts. Which yes, makes things worse for humans gorons etc. etc.
So I dont know really.
>>333638247
All ganons (Except FSA, who is explicitly a reincarnation) are the same dude in different timelines. However, he's officially dead in all three timelines now, so if they wanna use him again they gotta pull some horseshit
>>333636109
yes. no amount of big boss syndrome wankery in wind waker can change that.
>>333645885
Actually, let me correct myself. "Child" Ganon is still alive, just sealed in the Four Sword as of FSA
>>333645885
Well Demise said there would always be only an incarnation of his hatred. Not that only Ganondorf will always exist. If Ganondorf is dead then another incarnation of his hatred can come forth. Isn't Spirit Tracks about some new Demon causing trouble?
>>333645757
Are these gods the likes of Naryu, Din and Farore?
Are there any others we know of?
>>333646108
It hasn't been outrigt said Malludus is another incarnation of Demise, but it'd be easy to assume he is
>Read mane like ganondorf
>Vaugely piglike beast form
What's interesting to me is that the Triforce is sunken beneath the sea at that point, so if things get really hairy there's no easy way out for New Hyrule
>>333645885
They'll just keep going back anyway.
>>333646108
Malladus had been trapped under the tracks but it's implied it happened before Tetra founded New Hyrule which meant it was trapped when Ganondorf was trapped.
>>333643695
>Muh death of the author meme
>>>/co/mblr
>>333644989
>escapes the Dark World and fucks everything up to the maximum amount possible with just the Triforce of Power in the Dark Future
>can't fucking get out of the Dark World on his own with the entire Triforce in the Game-Over timeline
What the fuggggg :DDDD
>>333646254
There's tons of gods
Din, Nayru and Farore are the 3 creator gods, the "Golden Goddesses". They left the world after creating it, and haven't done much since.
Then there's all the lesser gd beings. Hylia, Jabu-Jabu, Valoo, The Wind Fish, and the Ocean King (who might be just the Wind Fish in an alternate timeline). I'm probably missing a lot of the lesser gods (like the Light SPirits from TP) but they generally are shown to be not-omnipotent, and even weaker than the villains at times.
>>333637941
In WW he had eons of time alone with no interaction, while in TP he began slowly corrupting the twilight as soon as he got there. Just went straight into plotting revenge
>>333646534
Well would it be possible for someone that existed during the lifetime of one incarnation of Demise's hatred to later become another incarnation?
>>333646687
what about all those bullshit keeper gods like in TP, like Lanayru, Eldin, Faron, etc. they just sound like slightly different reincarnations or sometime? whyd they come back?
why are there oracles with the same names in the oracles games?
why did the oracle villains not give a shit about farore and kidnapping her too?
If they do stick with Ganon(dorf) being the villain in the next Zelda I hope they just go with it from the beginning instead of trying to make it into some big "twist" or whatever the fuck.
>It's the villain who is literally destined to be the villain is not actually a villain thread
>>333646906
Well to answer your third question the plan was for there to be a third game in the Oracles set but it got scrapped because trying to have three interconnecting games like that on the Game Boy fucking Color was way too far ahead of it's time.
>>333646878
I suppose. Link in TP is taught by the Hero's Shadow who was OoT Link, right? I don't think there is any reincarnation in Zelda (aside from the first princess and hero), I think their spirits are just passed on.
>>333646906
>what about all those bullshit keeper gods like in TP, like Lanayru, Eldin, Faron
THose are the Light Spirits I mentioned, they explicitly say theyre servants of the Golden Godesses
>>333646906
>why are there oracles with the same names in the oracles games?
why are theyre people named Jesus today?
>>333646906
>why did the oracle villains not give a shit about farore and kidnapping her too?
The real answer is that the oracle games were originally a trilogy but the third got canceled. I don't have an asspull fanwank answer fot that
>>333637445
Old people are like that.
>>333647143
The Hero's Shade is implied to be OOT Link, guy even says something about TP Link and "our bloodline" but I don't think it's outright said.
I think the problem is the "Spirit of the Hero" isn't really explored. Is this Spirit of the Hero a soul that keeps on getting reincarnated into different incarnations of Link when it somehow senses the time it will be needed? Or does each Link have their own souls and this "Spirit of the Hero" just joins with them for a power boost?
>>333643264
>TP Ganondorf didn't even do shit yet and he got imprisoned and ritually executed
It should be noted that Ganondorf released Gohma, Barinade and King Dodongo BEFORE Link met Zelda and had him imprisoned.
>>333642294
He cleared up the field, but look at the urban decay in Castle Town. It's about half way to Detroit.
Not to mention all the environment issues. I'm no hippie, but draining an entire lake, and creating a massive crater that's fill with lava around you castle probably isn't the most ecologically sound move.
Ganondorf would have been a better king for Hyrule than the Royal Family
post theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEcTFZnzfOw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB6FLj4NY2w
Why does it always have to be Courage and Wisdom vs Power?
Why can't we have a setting where the holders of the pieces are switched?
Windwaker Dorf had a touch of Wisdom to him, mostly from his age though.
>>333643264
He did lead an attack on Hyrule before TP when his initial scheme failed. Then when he is about to be executed, in his hour of need the triforce of power is literally handed to him from out of nowhere. No wonder he was even more evil than usual, with a god complex to boot. That's like a direct confirmation from the heavens themselves saying "you're on the right track, so just keep doing your thing".
>>333643821
Direct intervention from the gods is not always a good thing. They always do things their own way.
>>333643821
The canon is that the Triforce was imbued with omnipotent power by the Golden Goddesses. That way other, lesser gods wouldn't be able to use it, only mortals. Since it has the same supreme power that they do, they can't outright destroy it or people who wield it.
>>333648084
Flooding an entire world seems like more direct intervention than just killing one man.
>>333647885
>Ganondorf would have been a better king for Hyrule than the Royal Family
>Literally ran out everyone in the kingdom
>his own people stayed in the desert
Great King. Top notch work.
>>333648272
never trust women
>>333644989
So TP hyrule is the same hyrule as OoT? Guess I never really understood that when I played it since they look so different even though they have the same areas.
So wind waker is basically the farthest end game scenario for the world of Hyrule?
Pretty grim outcome. Millions must have died.
>>333648525
The story says the goddesses gathered the people on the mountaintops. But yeah, you can't support an entire country on a few mountaintops.
>>333648643
Well the entire country seems to just be a few sparse villages.
>>333647942
Because the Triforce pieces they hold are also the basis of their archetypes.
a little offtopic but
do you trust this guy?
>>333648402
All Hyrules are the same Hyrule. Except for Spirit Tracks Hyrule. That is the only Hyrule that is not Hyrule.
But every other Hyrule? Same Hyrule. Original Zelda. Skyward Sword. Minish Cap. Ocarina of Time. Link to the Past.
>>333648220
That's what I'm saying. The people asked the gods to save Hyrule from Ganon. So the gods flooded Hyrule and sealed Ganon under it. Gods giving you what you ask doesn't mean they give you what you want.
>>333648732
It's like pokemon. The town in the game is only three houses but in-universe it's much bigger.
>>333648782
What is he? Why do the moon children give you his mask in exchange for the happy masks of termina? Why does majora call him "the bad guy"?
>>333648782
no
I think him and Majora have a history (maybe even former lovers?), and Link tapped into his furious power as well as reigned it in.
If the actual Fierce Deity was loosed upon Termina, it would definitely be destroyed.
>>333639939
i want to play as a young ganondorf, see his training, his family and the way he enters in the royal family court
>>333636109
Yes. He's a tragic villain, and a sympathetic villain, but he is definitely still the villain.
Hyrule probably didn't cause the Gerudo's misfortune, but even if they did, violence and subjugation doesn't solve anything, and in fact he did nothing to help the Gerudo after coming into power. Whatever his initial driving factor, he lost his way and did very bad things.
>>333643821
>you guys knew how powerful that thing was and why you really should guard it
>but then you decide to trust a guy whose title is "king of thieves"
>you could have been great, but no, now you lost the triforce and you suck
>okay here, have some fucking rain, that will stop him from killing all of you
>>333648812
different regions as well though, right? Didn't they say that Zelda 1 and 2 take place in a different area of Hyrule?
>>333636109
No. He just blew wind.
>>333649058
>>333649059
I honestly think the majora's mask is just a tool made by the shadow people to stop this deity
probably he is as bad as demise or just an agent of caos. some kind of neutral caotic demigod
>>333649058
moon on his breastplate... maybe he's the personification of the moon, and is angry about being ensnared by Majora.
That would sorta explain the moon children giving you his mask.
Also, I think Majora is a giant child. It thinks anything opposed to it is a "bad guy".
>>333648812
I thought Skyward Sword was pre-hyrule?
>>333649290
Majora was a trickster demon and a god of chaos and destruction. I don't think anyone would have created it to fight evil. It's already as evil as you can get,
>>333649058
>>333649059
Take this how you will but a companion manga was released with the game. I don't remember much about it but Majora was a giant peaceful beast and the people of Terminia really wanted him dead for whatever reason. One day the Fierce deity roles into town and they get into a battle. I think they both end up dying there. So basically Majora was just a simple guy trying to live his life when out of no where this fairy prick comes by and kills him.
>>333648812
Well, yeah I get that. But in this case even though the layout isn't exactly the same, it's got pretty much all the same locations with the same name. In the other games I know it's Hyrule but it's usually still pretty unfamiliar. How much time passed between OoT and TP? Or how long ago was Ganondorf supposed to be executed before TP began?
>>333649058
I honestly think they ran out of time during MM's development (didn't it only last less then a year?) so they left things vague cause it was simpler and easier but people took it as "deep". I mean if people weren't able to come up with their own theories and shit no one would still talk about it to this day.
>>333636516
>implying WW was even worth wiping your ass with
Don't you think hints and walkthroughs for your kiddie games are kind redundant?
I hate Wind Waker but it nailed the characterization of Ganondorf perfectly, in fact I'm disappointed no other Zelda game has had a villain as well defined as Wind Waker.
Ganondorf is the same as Ocarina of Time (and his counterpart in Twilight Princess), however he's had like 1000 years to think about everything. To recap for those who forgot.
OoT Adult Link wrecks his shit, he's imprisoned, breaks free after 100 years to resume what he started, and just as he's more or less declared de-facto ruler the Goddesses drown not just Hyrule, but the entire world. Everything up until that point was played by the book, even if Ganondorf is evil, he did everything without getting blindsided by Gods or Goddesses. The Triforce is an item that can be split 3 ways and it doesn't matter who owns it, they can be evil or good, there was no moral compass on ownership.
Triforce was fair game for anyone to make a wish. And just when everything was falling into place, the so call neutral Goddesses appeared when no hero challenged him and flooded the entire world. Everything was taken away from Ganondorf by an unforeseen force.
Ganondorf post Ocarina of Time didn't lose because he was weak or because he misjudged a would-be hero, Ganondorf was robbed by Goddesses who remained neutral until his pivotal moment.
Well after Hyrule was drowned he had 1,000 years to think about his part in the world and how he might be chained down by fate. Him being a villain in Wind Waker was just one last shot to do it again but this time to spite the Gods and Kings of old Hyrule.
In a way Ganondorf goes from full-blown villain to somewhat of an anti-hero. Yeah, he murdered the sages in Wind Waker but he was scheming how to prevent the Goddesses from ever choosing anyone's fate ever again. To me he was "Might makes right" kind of person in Wind Waker as opposed to downright chaotic evil of Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time. Well regardless of what you and I think, King Daphnes was an asshole.
>>333649425
I think they were together in their extremes. Majora is chaos/playfulness taken to a malevolent extreme, and the FD is vengeance/righteous anger taken to an extreme.
>>333649425
it is stated in majora's mask that the mask was created by some ancient population
they didn't create a god of destruction, but a powerful weapon
>>333649365
Yeah but that's not important. After the events of SS the skyloftians built Hyrule.
>>333649454
That's not how the companion manga is at all, and even if it was, it's still not canon.
>>333648272
But he got rid of the murderous peahat infestation
The stalchild gangs were roving around at night terrorizing people, but Ganon funded dem programs and got them into college
>>333649762
>Ganondorf is a Democrat
makes sense, he gets into power and then helps with some issues while making everything else a lot worse.
>>333649560
just the fact that ocarina ganondorf got killed with a sacred master sword blessed by all the seven sages says a lot on the will to fight of that man.
later he simply loses any desire
yes i love this
>>333649176
Zelda 1 is an area in Zelda 2. Almost all the Zelda games since LttP have similar placements of major areas.
What I want to know is why the fuck does the tech seem to get worse and worse the further along in the timeline you get?
>>333643264
>TP Ganondorf didn't even do shit yet and he got imprisoned and ritually executed
Wait, what? I thought he was imprisoned because of the events in OoT
>>333650206
what tech?
>>333649560
>Yeah, he murdered the sages in Wind Waker but he was scheming how to prevent the Goddesses from ever choosing anyone's fate ever again.
No he wasn't at all. He was trying to bring back the old world and make things like they were before his loss. He was stuck in the past, and he knew it. King Daphnes by comparison was just as much of a relic, but acknowledged that he and Ganon were no longer part of the world or important to it. They were two old men who were forced to accept that they were failures and the future was a world that didn't involve them.
>>333650343
in child timeline he still didn't do anything
so in a way
ganondorf did nothing wrong
>>333650206
Ancient civilizations having amazing technology beyond comprehension is a standard story element. Other than stuff like the Ancient robots and temples though, the tech level in Zelda is pretty static.
>>333650356
In Skyward Sword people had electricity, robots, and other things. It's the earliest in the timeline. Not look at any other game in the series. Heck, the ones the furthest in the timeline have seemed to regress in tech even compared to just the game right before them in the timeline.
>>333650539
But he still ruined the Deku tree.
>>333646946
It'd be a fun inversion of the twist if you start off thinking Ganondorf is the villian but then somebody else hijacks the plot.
>>333650609
it's like atlantis
that's hyrule golden age I suppose
>>333650206
They got steam engines in ST. Probably because they had to innovate or die after shit got flooded.
Also all the magic might be nanomachines
>>333649560
So Ganondorf = Solidus?
He (almost [not really]) did nothing wrong?
>>333650672
well...
yeah
but the deku tree was old anyway
>>333650609
Isn't that a running theme in Zelda games anyway though?
I remember even in A Link to the Past characters talked about the ancient secrets of the Hylians...
>>333650821
And he put Barinade in Jabu Jabu, and made the Goron Mountain's food source unreachable with the giant boulder and King Dodongo.
>Wind Waker Link is the Hero of Winds
>No fart porn
Why is this allowed?
>>333650539
He still
>Cursed a tree god
>Starved an entire species
>Gave a fish god an STD
>>333650821
He also filled Dodongo's Cavern with monsters and sealed off the entrance, and he cursed Lord Jabu-Jabu.
>>333651017
>>333651182
barinade might be a conseguence of jabu jabu bad diet :D
for the gorons I don't think Ganondorf actually did something...dodongo were always there
>>333649058
>>333649059
Read the manga
>>333636109
Most overrated incarnation of Ganondorf, and one of the most overrated Nintendo villain, right next to RPG Bowser.
>>333651313
Jabu Jabu only started acting different after Ganon visited him, and the Zoras refused to give up their Sapphire.
>>333650468
The world was ended and Ganondorf didn't do it (for once). He, like everyone else in Hyrule, was robbed of a future.
This future that you claim King Daphnes and the Goddesses secured laid on the foundation of literally hundreds of corpses, including the entire Zora race. Ganondorf was one side of evil, sure, but let's not claim the GODDESSES OF HYRULE ARE GOODS GODS, THEY DID NOTHING WRONG.
I'd take creepy ReDead and Poes infested Hyrule with lava Ganondorf castle over literally genocide of an entire world. Ganondorf's motivation was to right a wrong set by AYY LMAO Goddesses, Daphnes sole reason for existing in The Wind Waker was to deny Trump his Triforce delegates to make Hyrule Great Again.
>>333651437
>manga
Not canon.
>>333651484
The entire Zora race was turned into the bird people from WW. Mainly because they didn't want anyone swimming down and finding Hyrule.
>>333651313
Darunia himself saw Ganon seal the cavern, he mentons it after you kill King Donlebongo
>>333651454
what if King Zora poisoned him, and give him the parasite?
that guy always looked fishy to me
>>333651210
>>333651017
Dodongo was a bitch and by the Goron's own views they deserve death for not being strong enough to get in there.
Jabu-Jabu was kawaii and my baby though.
>>333651437
it's not canon you fucktard
>>333651484
>including the entire Zora race
but then who was rito
>>333651613
If you are going by the theory of evolution, millions of Zora don't exist today because they were forced to evolve. It was breed as much as we can and hope a gene mutation will cause our people to grow wings.
The Zora genocide still counts, dirty Goddess defender.
>>333651484
>Ganondorf's motivation was to right a wrong set by AYY LMAO Goddesses
No, that's a motivation you want him to have. Just because you don't like the goddesses doesn't mean Ganondorf was righting a wrong. He was dead. Hyrule was dead. He had to accept that he was a relic, instead of trying to bring back an ancient world just so he could try and conquer it again. He was an old man trying to grasp at relevance and his own glory days.
>>333643325
>Skyward Sword fucks up the canon for EVERY Zelda game
>EXCEPT WIND WAKER HE'S SPECIAL
Is there anyone more insufferable than WWfags?
>>333651851
But their flight comes from Valoo, not evolution.
>>333636109
I seriously hope you guys don't think Ganondorf from WW was a good villain.
This is the same Ganondorf from OoT. All that deep emotional shit he's saying to appeal to Link? Total bullshit. He's just lying to get some sympathy, but in actuality, he is genuinely evil.
>muh desert
>muh people
Yeah, so it makes a ton of sense to betray the king of hyrule and claim the triforce because you chose to live in a fucking desert, right?
>>333650672
Parasitic armored arachnids need homes too
I just want to point out that in ocarina every guy or gal Link meets has trouble or even dies. basically all the sages are dead, saria, impa, darunia, ruto, nabooru
that game is a fucking tragedy
>>333651694
How long would it take him to do that.
Unless him being slow is all a charade.
>>333652232
>Unless him being slow is all a charade
all the zora are dead
he survives the ice
that's says a lot
>>333652209
>Saria
>Dead
Explain please
>>333652209
This.
>OoT and MM were very dark thematically
>people still insist that TP is "edgy"
I'd love a Zelda game where you play as Ganondorf. Combat would be slower but with more impact, and you could have magic instead of items
>>333652382
Too much wolfos cock
>>333652046
Anon, show me a picture of what a Zora and Rito. One is white, one is blue. The entire species changed to adapt. The dragon on top of their island gives them wing power, but you're misinterpreting my post as "literally grew out wings". I said a forced gene mutation over time, evolution isn't like X-Men canon where its DUDE POWERS LMAO instantly. It didn't have to be wings (which is what changed about their biology). The Zora that we know from all the other Zelda games are dead and buried in Wind Waker and post Wind Waker. That is an undeniable fact. What happened to them wasn't fair and had nothing to do with Hyrule's clusterfuck.
>>333652382
>goes to the forest temple to stop her home being fucked up by demons and shit
>the temple is filled with wolfos, poes, and all sorts of nasty shit
>all of that is still there when you arrive
>she isn't
She dead man.
>>333652475
And you can start volley ball games with anyone you meet.
>>333652382
i remember someone in the game saying that she went in a long trip in the wood and lost...
>>333652475
>Combat would be slower
Someone hasn't played as him using the Trident in Hyrule Warriors.
>>333652575
>>333652472
SS is the only 3D Zelda that isn't very dark. Even WW for all of it's color and whimsy is pretty dark thematically.
Ganondorf killed a few people. The Goddesses killed many more in their attempts to stop him, attempts that were literally only a few feet from failing anyway and only perhaps because Ganondorf lost track of one little detail in his enthusiasm for long enough that the old King could take command of the situation.
I guess you could handwave it away with fan theories, but the point is that at least Christianity tries to claim that "Oh, everyone except Noah's family was an endless succession of unrepentant monsters and needed to be killed" in their version of the flood story. And it's still a highly questionable act on the part of the Abrahamic God. Here we have the Golden Goddesses destroying the world just so one asshole doesn't take it over, and only preserving a small set of chosen people against the destruction, and failing to actually take that one asshole out permanently until he'd tried again and done more damage than before. Ganondorf was bad, sure. But try to justify the Goddesses' actions and tell me he didn't have a point about them destroying the people.
>>333652526
You might as well say the Kokiri died out when they became the Koroks. They just changed, somewhat by magic.
>>333652679
in a way that might be true
>>333652642
I haven't played Hyrule Warriors. Currently hoping the 3DS price goes down or Citra gets good progress
Since this is pretty much a Zeqlda thread what are shit you hope to see (besides it not being shit) in the new Zelda realistic or not?
>More lore on preexisting things like Fierce Deity Link and such
>An actual fleshed out villain (Ganon or not)
>>333652808
She's poor, but her story is about getting her life back on track in a friendly town full of kindly people.
>>333652824
Fair enough, heads up he is a literal rape train with the trident. Straight up Ganon power in Ganondorf form.
Yes.
The point of that speech wasn't to garner sympathy for Ganon, but to illustrate the extent of his obsession with Hyrule. Ever since he was a boy, it had been all he ever wanted - even as an old man, that desire to possess it consumed him. That Ganon had a rough childhood doesn't excuse his actions through OoT or WW - he's clearly a selfish and evil dude. For all his complaining about the desert and how it weighed heavily on his tribe, he was quite happy to leave them there while he lived in his 'fortress of doom' on the ruins of Hyrule Castle. His speech isn't him trying to justify his actions or seek atonement for his brutality, it's the musings of an old man who's on the verge of receiving the one thing he's always wanted.
As for why the Goddesses flooded Hyrule, I always assumed that was more because there was no hero. Ganon defeats Link in the Failure Timeline, but we never hear about the goddesses intervening and Ganon is allowed to claim the Triforce and do what he pleases. The difference in WW was that he had no champion to contend against, and so his conquest of Hyrule would have been illegitimate. It was only when a new hero was chosen that Ganon received another opportunity to claim Hyrule again. This explains the divine prank of TP as well: Zelda tried to use time-travel to cheat Ganon out of ever having claimed the ToP. But since that isn't fair, the goddesses grant him the ToP at his execution since he'd earned it anyway.
>>333652694
>Ganondorf apoligists
The Goddesses only flooded the world because Ganon was literally destroying everything, since the hero was absent. The Goddesses even tried to save as much of the world as they could by telling them to flee to the mountains.
Also, Ganon is literally evil incarnate. He is the reincarnated form of Demise. He is totally, unequivocally evil, and he will never not be.
>>333652903
I'd rather see new ideas than flesh out the old ones. I love seeing and hearing new legends, but fans treat lore more like a wikipedia article. The only idea I'd really like expanded is Skyward Sword's ancient civilization, because it could be a neat setting.
>>333652934
she was rich, than link fucks everything up
>>333652903
new villain, new lore, a guy that discovers to be a ganondorf descendant but he is a good boy
>>333652679
Not really. WW never tries to be serious or dark, it's just goofballs and silly the entire time. Any time it even tries to be serious, it kills any tension two seconds later.
Isn't Ganon cursed by Demise to always try to fuck up Hyrule as a kind of everlasting cycle of torment for Link and everyone else?
What make me wonder is that in one of games he actually seems to care about his own people and it may actually point at that he may have some kind of his own personality, so this is even a little bit more fucked up.
Really, who would be forced to repeat shit like this forever and ever, by evil fuck placed between Demise and shitty Goddess.
>>333653003
The difference between LttP and Wind Waker is the people. In LttP, the people rise up and try to stop Ganon on their own in the Sealing War. In Wind Waker, they pray to the goddesses to save them and the goddesses do what gods do when you ask of them.
>>333652903
I'd really like it if they advanced the setting's technology. They won't, we know they won't, but at some point I'd like to see futuristic tech show up. Supercomputers, industrial factories, enemies with mechanized components. Maybe Ganondorf replaces the King of Hyrule with a robot. Maybe his armies have tanks. The Master Sword's magical power to banish evil keeps it from ever being obsolete against anything under Ganondorf's command, so it gets to stay, and everything else would be so cool if it were made futuristic.
>>333636109
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBq4l2LJMZQ
>>333637745
The Ganon we see in WW got what he wanted and then was defeated. He was able to see the results of his ambitions and the consequences of them first hand, and when he came back, he saw his whole world destroyed just to stop him. He had hundreds of years to reflect on everything and that led to where he was in WW.
In TP, he was cut off before he could even really begin, he felt cheated and short changed and was resolute in continuing his goal.
WW Ganon became a somber old man, TP Ganon became a beast of rage.
>>333653003
>As for why the Goddesses flooded Hyrule, I always assumed that was more because there was no hero. Ganon defeats Link in the Failure Timeline, but we never hear about the goddesses intervening and Ganon is allowed to claim the Triforce and do what he pleases. The difference in WW was that he had no champion to contend against, and so his conquest of Hyrule would have been illegitimate. It was only when a new hero was chosen that Ganon received another opportunity to claim Hyrule again. This explains the divine prank of TP as well: Zelda tried to use time-travel to cheat Ganon out of ever having claimed the ToP. But since that isn't fair, the goddesses grant him the ToP at his execution since he'd earned it anyway.
I like this explanation, the goddesseshelp Ganondorf and screw him over in different time lines.
>>333653217
to me WW ganon is like that guy that wants his toys back
he wanted to destroy hyrule because reasons but now that he lost it he wants it back
>>333653217
>Isn't Ganon cursed by Demise to always try to fuck up Hyrule as a kind of everlasting cycle of torment for Link and everyone else?
No. Demise's curse just means that Ganon exists. Also, none of the games imply that he cares about his people. Even in Wind Waker, he cares more about himself and when he gets the green winds of Hyrule, sets out to twist and distort them out of hatred rather than using them for his country's sake.
>>333653384
>>333653408
Ah, I see. By the way, just asking, but what would happend if someone would get Triforce and tried to fuck up Demise curse with it? It wouldn't work or just nobody knows about this shit?
>>333653307
I thought that was cool when I was 12
>>333653307
I believe Aonuma once stated that he'd love to see Link's motorcycle from Mario Kart 8 in an actual Zelda game one day. So who knows, anon?
>>333652209
and also traps
>>333653147
Except for the whole "nuking your own country to stop the big bad because the hero never showed up" back story.
>>333652526
This is fiction where gods and magic are confirmed to exist. They could have just snapped their fingers and all the zora are rito now for all we know.
>>333653217
>Isn't Ganon cursed by Demise to always try to fuck up Hyrule as a kind of everlasting cycle of torment for Link and everyone else?
No, Demise's "curse" was not any kind of literal, magical curse.
>>333653567
somebody should wish to break the curse demise made but since nobody knows about this curse it will always happen
>>333653217
That's how I interpret the "incarnation of hatred" curse, at least. I think Ganon is very much his own man, but he's born with the neverending hate of Satan, making him unstable as fuck.
>>333652903
>return of best armour
>a time period that isn't afraid of engines or newer tech than a stick
>Link to be Gerudo born
>The Twili realm. If the Demise bullshit can defy gods itself then a broken mirror shouldn't stop the bridge to the Twili
>musical instruments again, would like a flute or violin
>a companion that is less Fi and more Midna.
>>333652903
I want those sword techs from TP back. I loved quick drawing Ganondorf to death.
>>333653594
Nobody died though.
>>333653872
>I forget the image of best armour
Fucking hell.
>>333653872
>he doesn't want a new Navi
hell
I miss her
>>333653003
So basically the Gods flooded the world because Ganon didn't win in mortal kombat.
>>333636516
>Brings up FFTA and also realizes what the story was beyond HURR GODDA GIT HOME
Marry me please.
>>333653567
Triforce can grant any wish, no exceptions. Hell, it destroyed The Imprisoned without a second's hesitation. Nobody even knows about the curse though, so who's gonna wish for that?
>>333653018
I'm not denying that Ganondorf is evil, I'm saying that the other side is bad too. Ganondorf is willing to enslave everyone for his own power, ruining lives left and right just because he can, and anyone entering his service becomes corrupted in one way or another. He's evil. That's not in question. But the goddesses are willing to destroy everything and kill a great majority of Hyrule's people to stop him. Even if we're compromising instead of just yelling at them for not just making a new Link, was it so impossible to inspire new Knights to rise up in a new Sealing War that would let the majority of Hyrule survive? Certainly many of the Sages had, if not direct descendants, then indirect descendants, siblings and cousins who passed down the bloodline.
>>333653872
>>333654017
I want there to be an option at the main menu, when you start the game
>HELPER: ON / OFF
Fuck Navi, fuck Tatl, fuck Midna, fuck Eztio, fuck Fi, fuck Talkboat.
>>333654017
>HELLO
>HEY LINK
I know it's become a meme at this point but that shit was really fucking annoying. I prefer the cute chimes of Tatl
>>333654197
rude
>>333653018
>He is the reincarnated form of Demise.
Demise was sealed in the Master Sword. He can't be reincarnated. What you're thinking of is an incarnation of Demise's hatred.
>>333654197
>fuck Midna
delet this
>>333653981
This
No one died, except of course the Zoras and Gorons. And the Koriki and all of the Gerudos. Also realistically a good portion of the Hylians, being that there was worldwide catastrophe.
Other than that though absolutely no one died
>>333654251
Tatl a shit
>>333654197
>fuck Midna
If only.
>>333654360
impa died, darunia dies, nabooru gets roasted, ruto is dead, saria got lost and died...
>>333654363
You a shit
>>333654414
there is so little porn of adult midna...
why
she's a fucking milf
>>333649176
Zelda 1 takes place south of Death Mountain while Zelda II is initially set north of it. You end up visiting the Zelda 1 area for a very brief time to get the hammer (and destroy Spectacle Rock in the process, which was the 9th dungeon entrance in the original Zelda quest).
>>333636109
By "wind" he means "farts," right?
>>333652903
I want it to have a central hub dungeon like in PH and ST, except actually good.
>Not a pain in the ass to go through
>Enter it through multiple entrances and solve puzzles in different sections
>In the end it all aligns in a brilliant way because the whole structure is a fuckhuge puzzle
>Can see it from anywhere in the overworld and it changes on the outside as you progress
>Also village-building sidequest where you go around clearing out the overworld of magical mechs for development
>>333654360
The Kokiri are clearly still around as the Koroks. The Zora are clearly still around as the Rito. The Gorons are still around as Gorons, who already lived on the mountaintops to begin with. They even say in the games that the people of Hyrule went to the mountaintops when the torrential rains started.
>>333652903
I want Ganon back. I really love Ganon as a villain and I want them to develop his character more. Vaati and Majora and the like are all cool, but Ganon is the king.
There are some specific story things I'd like to learn more about like the Fused Shadow and the flood and what happened to the Gerudos.
I'd like a companion on par with Midna, but that seems unlikely given the open world format.
On that note, I hope the open world isn't TOO open and still has direction to it, I hope the dungeons are still the classical style, and I hope there is still plot progression throughout the game, even if it's more subtle than in most Zeldas.
I hope bombs and the boomerang feel good, and I hope it has a fully playable instrument.
>>333654569
>adult midna...
You mean normal midna?
>>333653307
This reminded me of how a few years ago, I think it was before SS was revealed, there were rumors about a Zelda game set during the great flood and you played as some nobody that was a huge fan of the Hero story. So he had things like a homemade knock off dekusheild and master sword. Tech was rumored to be better too, like mentions of a Deku Rifle weapon you could use.
>>333654603
I wonder what they smell like haha
>>333653361
>WW Ganon became a somber old man, TP Ganon became a beast of rage.
I would actually like to see them meet.
>>333638247
theres only 2 ganondorfs in all the time lines combined . the ganon from 4 swords adventures was his only re incarnation
>>333654686
>The Kokiri are clearly still around as the Koroks. The Zora are clearly still around as the Rito.
Protip: Evolution occurs because a large portion of a species is not able to survive in their environment
>the people of Hyrule went to the mountaintops
That's why the islands of WW were so populated, amirite?
>>333654017
>like Navi
>most people now only know about her from the "le navi is annoying HEY HEY HEY LOOK OUT HEY" meme
>even though she's not like that in the game at all
>a lot of "fans" won't even play the game and find this out for theirselve because of OOT's age, like FFVII fans that only seen AC and KH
>>333653003
>This explains the divine prank of TP as well: Zelda tried to use time-travel to cheat Ganon out of ever having claimed the ToP. But since that isn't fair, the goddesses grant him the ToP at his execution since he'd earned it anyway.
I think the divine prank was purely just because another version of him had the Triforce of Power, and so it was his. He stole it, which in a sense makes him the illegitimate heir, but he used force to take Power, just like how WW Link used bravery to take Courage. The method of procurement likely appeased the associated Goddess and granted them their blessing.
>>333655089
>That's why the islands of WW were so populated, amirite?
More populated than OoT.
>>333655023
I still have my doubts about the canonicity of that.
>>333655217
>even though she's not like that in the game at all
Except it is though and people are experiencing it again by playing OoT3D. Shit anon get your facts straight.
>>333653361
>In TP, he was cut off before he could even really begin
I never really understood TP Ganon's place in the Zelda timeline. Was he just a reincarnation of Ocarina's Ganon?
>>333654603
>>333654782
>you will never capture little girls to covet their winds, I suppose.
>>333653307
Back when the original Zelda was in it's conceptual phase they were originally thinking of making it a sci-fi adventure rather than medieval.
The Hyrule Historia has a picture or two of Zelda in sci-fi space opera outfits.
>>333655089
>Protip: Evolution occurs because a large portion of a species is not able to survive in their environment
The Koroks and Rito were changed by their patron deity and magic, you dumbfuck. It'd be absolutely impossible to evolve as much as they did through science in that short a time.
>That's why the islands of WW were so populated, amirite?
There's more people on WW's islands than OoT's villages though.
>>333655089
The Kokiris turning into Koroks and Zora turning into Rito is not evolution, it's intelligent design.
>>333655552
Those are for Link to the Past, which originally had you traveling between different time eras.
>>333637445
Because the fucking Gods are playing with him, Link, and Zelda. He knew one of them were going to die at the top of that castle, least he at a moment to reminisce.
>>333655428
She says hey when she has something new to say, like info about a boss you're taking damage from or too long to fight. She's not constantly going "HEY" like the meme would have you believe. I did forget about the 3DS version existing though.
People seem to forget the fact that WW Ganondorf is just as flat as any other incarnation before the ending. Then in the ending he has a couple lines about how living in the desert was shitty, and that somehow is supposed to be the height of characterization. Nah.
To me WW Ganondorf was an unnecessary continuation of the Ganondorf character, as well as an annoying QTE boss.
>>333655521
He is Ocarina Ganon before he got a chance to take over Hyrule. Link went back in time to when he was a child and warned the royal family of Ganondorf's plans and he was sentenced to death.
>>333655313
Not by a long shot. OoT had the Marketplace and its alleys, Kakariko and Lon Lon, plus tons of guards, and that's omitting Hylians living in the castle
>>333655521
He was OOT Ganondorf sealed into the twilight realm. He just looks different because art style shift.
>>333655521
TP Ganondorf is the one from the OoT Child timeline that didn't get the chance to fuck Hyrule up as bad as he did in the Adult timeline as Link and Zelda warned the kingdom before Ganondorf started his coup.
He already started shit with the other races before he showed up in Hyrule, so they had precedent to believe the kids about his evil ambition.
>>333654758
it was all fanwanking, nothing official
>>333655554
Nice headcanon :^)
>>333655795
The marketplace and its alleys was like ten people, and that's including the crowd. It was so small that when they shoved all the Hyrule Town NPCs into Kakariko, which was smaller than Windfall Island, it still wasn't crowded.
>>333655792
Ah, interesting.
> Link went back in time to when he was a child and warned the royal family of Ganondorf's plans and he was sentenced to death
Was this explicitly implied in TP? I might not have been paying close enough attention at the Arbiter's Grounds.
>>333656205
They straight up show you the execution in a flash back.
>>333656205
TP follows the child ending of Ocarina of Time, where Link does just that. They allude to it hard in the backstory scene where he stabs a sage and is imprisoned in the Twilight Realm.
>>333655763
He really isn't a flat character. We get enough information about his life and motivations across multiple to be able to form a cohesive picture of the man.
>>333656310
I know, but did they imply that Ocarina child Link exposed his evil intentions?
>>333656205
The sages stabbed him straight through with a magic sword.
The Triforce of Power decided then and there that Ganondorf is a really nice guy and need some help.
So Ganondorf rips the sword out and starts making pureed sages before they use a last ditch effort to get rid of him by throwing him into the Twilight Realm.
>>333656439
Other than Kid Link who would have known about Ganondorf's intentions and expose them well enough for him to get sentenced to death?
>>333655792
>Sentenced to death.
Did they not carry out this sentence?
