How come EVE with all those great stories, happenings, being a space game and so on still only has 30.000 players? Why aren't the numbers greater? You'd think people would be all over a sci fi game like this. But apparently it fails to attract new people and make them stay.
There's the potentially greatest conflict in all of the game going on right now, and all that suggests for most of the gaming industry is neat news. ..I would advertise for this game a lot if SP would just nullify. What is a sandbox MMO where every profession and playstyle is behind payments?
>>332417742
because it's boring as fuck and the fun stuff happens once in a blue moon to the boring fucks who actually grinded out the boring as fuck shit over years
it's just not worth it, I could just play any other space multiplayer game and have just as much fun in an instant queue instead of waiting 4 years for an in-game "war" to naturally develop
Because it's brutal pvp game, takes lifetime to achieve anything , also no pve content, no dungeons or quest, it's all just farm and loose all your shit when someone pks you.
it's boring
too many letters
all the galaxies are the same
>>332417742
because you will spend 90% of your first year playing literally grinding ore
and for some, the grinding literally never stops, i tried playing but it was like having a second job, lasted till i trained for a legit mining vessel and lasers.
then got bored because i had nothing to do after mining ore since i i always got wrecked no matter what i flew.
>>332418206
Why do the foreigners always pretend like it's not the payment model?
The gameplay isn't fun.
All the fun/excitement to be found in the game is strictly in the metagame of investing yourself into an all consuming second job/life requiring you to make friends, put in hours, pay taxes, and so on and so on.
Flying the ships is boring. Fighting is boring. Mining is boring. It's all done through menu clicks and spreadsheets. You only get anything out of it if you are deeply involved in advancing some fantasy agenda.
That's why, OP.
It's a trash game with a toxic community. Glad I stopped playing when I did.
>>332418137
>>332418684
>flying the ships is all done through menu clicks and spreadsheets
Maybe the game is unpopular because nobody has any clue about the game.
Protip: you can double-click in space like it's an ARPG, but 3D. It's really quick, and discussion about this always starting with having no idea is almost humorous.
https://youtu.be/4UieJcWI-YM?t=20m32s (!)
https://youtu.be/4UieJcWI-YM?t=56s
https://youtu.be/4UieJcWI-YM?t=8m
>>332419942
>You can double-click in space like it's an ARPG
This is supposed to make it sound more fun? Jesus Christ, it's a game about SPACESHIPS, you don't pilot a spaceship with a mouseclick.
>>332417742
Becuase even with a lot of the busywork removed there's still a ton of busybody work. Most people ain't got no time fo dat but it needs to get done so that there can be spaceship shooting.
>>332420204
>deflective, backpedaling damage control
Good luck.
>all these retards who were too dumb to finish the tutorial, leave highsec, or do something besides mine
Eve has a small playerbase because the average /v/tard is too fucking dumb for the game.
>>332420204
Thinking about it, it's probably how you would actually control spaceships in the future.
Hell, it's pretty much how you control spaceships right now.
>>332420993
But mining is super comfy.
I was in a small mining guild with a few friends before we realized there's no point in mining and you need to be in a big corp to get anything out of the game.
it's 15 fucking dollars per month
15
and there's nothing new
>>332420993
>fly ship
>anchor on FC
>Press F1
The game isn't hard, even living in high class wormhole space before it became a renting empire wasn't hard, you just had to play the game enough to know what your ships actually did and feel confident in them.
>>332420993
This, I never played very much but I always had a good time doing it. Hot dropping carriers and doing dank fleet ops was always really fun.
>>332421262
>skills are time based.
>you lose your skills if you play.
>>332418206
>also no pve content, no dungeons or quest, it's all just farm and loose all your shit when someone pks you.
there's plenty of pve content, but it's boring and low risk low reward
>>332421678
No it's high risk low reward riiiight up until it becomes low risk high reward no matter how you do it.
Even high sec mission running, because once you're doing them in a marauder or something it takes an expensive, or big, fleet to kill you before concord shows up. And if you're cautious you can always just align when local spikes.
>>332421065
do you see any mice in there, pussy cat?
Setting aside the eye-wateringly boring gameplay, I used to hold out hope that it would develop the in-game events and PVE so that at least you could feel like you were taking part in an evolving universe with "I was there" moments and cool loot to show off. Never happened. After a few early failures CCP clammed up and decided to railroad all future events while completely abandoning lore-based stuff like COSMOS quests. Atmospheric flight and being able to walk around stations--and eventually planets themselves--will probably never happen now because the basement-dweller leet fanbase doesn't give a shit about anything other than watching spreadsheet numbers go up and down and epic blob fights. The declining fanbase is insular and utterly cancerous. The roleplayers mostly left awhile ago. What's left?
>>332420204
Why the fuck not? Do you go to space every day or something?
>>332421970
>comparing 70s tech to extreme far future sci-fi
>>332422513
>using point-n-click mice in "extreme far future sci fi"
>>332417742
It's a niche game where you have to be OK with playing an MMO like an MMO instead of like a single-player game with an extensive multiplayer component. 99% of the time there won't be any of the fun stories, 99% of the time, someone is preparing to make such a story come to life, some failing and some succeeding. Many people do many fun things, but it doesn't guarantee a fun story comes out of it, etc.
>>332421174
>there's no point in mining
????
there's always demand for ore, especially the rarer stuff.
>>332421591
you lose your skills if you're a retard and don't update your clone
>>332417742
Space is the most boring setting possible.
Literally just void and pretty background.
>>332422740
Well, I made like three times the money by just sitting around and playing with the market, and that don't require no expensive shits.
>>332421970
Whats the difference between a mouse click and a button press?
>>332417742
there is a subscription on it
for the money you have to pay you can buy 20 humble bundles
>>332422916
Of course you need an investment in your path to make it good, what the fuck did you expect? Yes you can play the market and make money, but it's riskier "in theory". To make 3x as much in market than by mining, you must have not gotten any kind of cargo ship whatsoever, fuckall lasers, and gotten 1b isk for market seed money.
>>332422817
Clone grades are gone, Sp loss only occurs when losing t3 cruisers or you choose to fill a skill injector with 500k Sp.
Sp is lost in a way based on injector use. More Sp means less gained from an injector. For instance a pilot with <5mil Sp gets 500k Sp from an injector, but a pilot with a little more than 5 million Sp get 400k sp from an injector. There are more levels to it as character Sp increases.
>>332419942
Where the fuck are the spaceships? All I see is lines and circles.
>>332422647
It's an abstraction fagtron. Are you gonna be upset at military sims because you move a mouse instead of tilting your head?
>>332418408
>because you will spend 90% of your first year playing literally grinding ore
bs
>then got bored because i had nothing to do after mining ore since i i always got wrecked no matter what i flew.
That's your own fault
>>332418916
>toxic
nice bait senpai
>>332418370
>all the galaxies
Wut
>>332420204
>moving the goalpost
>>332421591
wrong
>>332417742
It's a game like Dwarf Fortress. Fun? Yeah. If you learn to play it.
But ffs, if I want to spend time learning something I prefer it's something useful in real life.
The cutthroat community makes it incredibly difficult to stick with it. Everyone is out to pk you the second you decide to take any kind of risk in low, nul, or wormhole space. Unless you have real life friends who have a big corp it's just not worth sticking with.
>mobas are sucking up 99% of the global playerbase
>EVE is an autism simulator
>EVE takes years to accomplish anything in
>being successful in EVE depends on your ability to fuck over other people
>getting fucked over by other people means losing months of work
>EVE costs money
>EVE requires an expensive PC
>EVE has boring combat
>EVE has no end game content
>>332422150
>What's left?
..Apparently the market wondering what the fuck the game is about.
>>332423942
Pvp is not always consensual.
Consider gitting gud or learn to fight in cheaper ships before taking out some autism chariot.
>>332422651
The SP portion could be really fun if something like frig wormholes weren't stacked behind about 20 hrs. of scanning.
Everything else would be fun without SP.
>>332423942
I agree that the cutthroat nature of the community is unfun and not really immersive either. It would be nice if there were ways to encourage community efforts for peacekeeping, like corps being able to win any territory, but being kicked out if they never defend people from pk in it, for instance, though I'm not sure how to formalize this idea in game terms, especially since you also want free-for-all zones to be allowed.
>>332423653
>completely missing the point
oh, and non-pod ships actually are supposed to be button-and-lever affairs with windshields, see: Valkyrie. You'll defend boring "abstract" gameplay no matter how many times people point out it's just not a good spaceship sim though, so have fun with that.
>>332417742
Eve is only as boring as you are, and your group of friends are.
>>332423996
Eve runs on toasters just fine and you can pay with ingame money even from the first month on.
EVE is boring and very shallow in all of its facets.
You see EVE and everyone tells you how great the game is and how much things are there to do, but in fact every single thing is a grind, and a very unfun one at that.
Also has the endgame problem that the world is just too safe. There's no more wars in years. And if there are, they're just some squabbles here and there, making money stagnant and inflate since no one on the high strats is spending their billions.
>>332424226
It's not a spaceship sim, famalam. You're looking for Elite: Dangerous (lol).
>>332423996
>EVE is an autism simulator
yep
>EVE takes years to accomplish anything in
nope
>being successful in EVE depends on your ability to fuck over other people
nope
>getting fucked over by other people means losing months of work
yes
>EVE costs money
It can
>EVE requires an expensive PC
EVE can run on a toaster and G3 internet
>EVE has boring combat
I disagree
I never played a game where combat was as exciting as it is in EVE
>EVE has no end game content
I see that as a positive thing
>>332422958
Pretty on point.
>>332423553
Do you actually look at your character in a game like WoW? There's so much happening (in both games) that being so "zoomed out" seems fine.
>>332424181
You sound like some risk adverse faggot who doesn't want to lose his shiny ship.
Stay in highsec where you belong.
>>332424303
>There's no more wars in years
what
It's slow garbage.
The only fun there is to have are killing other players for the sake of destroying their shit.
It's built for people that love that shit.
And CCP are a bunch of inept retards that do the bare minimum to keep that audience.
If they try anything new it ends up like dust 514. A pile of shit
>reach 1.000.000.000 space money
>get bored
>>332424226
See >>332419942
"Abstraction" is a meme. The game would surely be fine if the market could actually criticize it.
>>332424340
anyone who is serious about EVE will be running multiple accounts, which requires an expensive PC with a godly processor and megatons of memory.
>>332423853
Like?
>>332424459
>never spend it on a bunch of ships to pvp with
>surprised I got bored from doing pve to 1 bil
>I also think this is a lot of ISK
Biomass irl (ingame) for real
>>332417742
It's literally a job, if you sit down to play it, you better have put at least 2 hours aside, 4 to 8 if you actually want to achieve something.
>>332424483
>i-it would be doing well if the market could actually criticize it (??)
it would be doing well if it wasn't a steaming pile of shit
>>332424605
>I have no clue what I'm saying
>maybe if I backpedal I'll win the argument!
>>332424605
You won't find a lot of people with more than two accounts
and two accounts still run on a toaster
I have been playing since 2011 and never used a 2nd account
>>332424789
the irony
>>332424682
I was low sec scum, did pvp loads of times but losing your ship is stress mang
>>332421970
Airbus don't have a cloche either
That's why sometimes they crash into WTC and accidentally melt the steel beams
I love EvE Online but the combat is boring as hell. Been playing off and on for 6-7 years and I get bored every time. I'd really like to enjoy this game more because the thought of it gets me amped up but its not stimulating enough
>>332425110
Now I know your full of shit, you can't melt steel beams.
>>332424919
If you stress losing ships then fly shit that's cheaper and not a bother to lose. You can fly more dangerously and get into fight you would normally avoid.
That is how you have fun. Clawing through a fight maybe coming out on top. Being some nigger who sits on gates with logi and instalock artillery is gonna get old fast unless you have autism.
>be EVE noob
>join a high sec mining corp
>spend months mining
>get my hulk
>corp leader has an orca
>we save up billions of isk
>log in one day; excited to do some more mining
>corp is completely gone
>leader took everything we earned(there were about 10 of us)
>leader hired mercs to war dec us
>get killed by said mercs several times
>they wouldn't fuck off
>lost everything
>forced to leave the system
>royally pissed off
>said fuck it and quit
nice game EVEtards
>>332425221
but I was there when the entire complex turned into a Krakatoa and pancaked to itself
Gameplay isn't fun if you're a normie cause you work up your shit by a bit and then you get scammed / blown up.
Gameplay is also chronologically limitied effectively locking you out of most roles until you've paid for XX weeks of gametime.
Game is also subscription based.
>>332425338
>join a high sec mining corp
you did this to yourself
>>332425401
how the fuck was i supposed to know? the corp leader spent months earning our trust only to betray us. he is a piece of fucking shit
>>332417742
I tried it when it was just released, I remember the controls being abysmal, having no actual free controls and no guide to speak of. Never touched again.
>>332425607
>trusting people
>in eve
>flying shit you can't afford
>letting yourself be killed many times when it's cleared people are waiting to kill you
>not putting a bounty on the leader
>not organizing with the rest of your former corp
>not getting in touch with one of the many carebear corps
100% your fault m8.
>>332424089
>>332424427
This attitude is why your game is dying, friendos.
>>332424605
I ran 3 accounts on a Q9650.
You don't need a godly processor for eve, not even if you're multiboxing 10 dreads bcuase you'll be in tidi land anyway.
>>332425804
People have been saying that EVE is dying for 10+ years
>>332425787
it just isn't the game for me m8. i'm way too nice to have fun in a cutthroat setting like EVE. i could never do what that corp leader did to us
>>332417742
I can consider playing this but
Is it newbie friendly? And... Is it pay2win by any means? Or pay2play?
>>332417742
JOIN TENGOO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWYuNaJ_8zs
>>332426460
>>>/d/og
>>332426184
>Is it newbie friendly? And... Is it pay2win by any means? Or pay2play?
The community yes
The game no
Some say yes some say no
It's hard to talk about it when you have no game knowledge
You can pay for game time with in game money, but most people just pay 15€ per month
>>332426184
It is the least new player friendly mmo out there. It's only pay to win if you buy plex with real money and sell it, buy all the skill books you'll need, set then going, then log off for a year then come back when you can actually do shit. But you won't n ow what you're doing and you'd need an active subscription the entire time.
>>332426184
No, no except you can buy ingame dosh with plex's, yes but you can pay with ingame money.
>>332426612
>15 euros per month
Holy shit dropped
>>332425787
How would be know? How would any noob know with attitudes like yours you pubbie mobgoloid? If this thread is t evidence of how toxic eves "community" is then I don't know what is.
>>332427090
I really don't get how people haven't heard about EVE before
It's been around longer than WOW and gets news coverage every few years
Does anyone on /v/ actually play vidya?
>>332417742
>only has 30.000 players?
30k online right now you mean?
total number of active subscription is a few hundred thousand
>>332427147
>toxic
>>>/leagueoflegends/
>>332427210
I have heard of EVE several times before, I was just never interested in space MMOs before. Mainly because of my experience with Dark Orbit. That game and the other games by the same company had no soul
>>332426184
Do not play. avoid.
someone in a thread last night summed it up: its fun to read stories about, but playing it isnt
and what people dont say, is that those '6 hour long battles' in reality could be done in like 30 minutes, but since you are sitting there spamming a button for 10 minutes waiting for the server to process it hoping that the person you are fighting doesnt hit the front of the queue first, the game loses much of its charm
>>332427316
Why would you ever compare a real video game with a browser game
Literally too smart for most players. Also requires a huge time investment.
>>332427352
too late anon
>>332427147
>wwwaaaaaaah! why doesn't the game give me a pewpew killeverything ship for free!
>wwwwwaaaaah! why can I lose! why don't I get everything for free!
>>332427224
And they're all alts of the same tired edgy spergs.
It has a high skill ceiling, and there's not enough support for a new solo player.
>>332427467
Can you back up that claim?
>>332427431
>Literally too smart for most players
Yes, I can see that from your average EVE fan: >>332427459
>>332427459
He says to the person who quit after 7 years, a lot of fleets FCd, and a successful corps undervhis belt.
Drink bleach.
>>332427426
Because I am not a idiot that thinks the medium where the game is decides if it is a "real" game or not?
>>332419942
>le SNS meme
Yes small frigate wolfpacks that manage to encounter other small frigate wolfpacks can indeed play like this. Until a rapier appears and murders you instantly.
However most of the time you do not find another similarly sized force. Most of the time you either find jack shit or a force that your frigates won't be able to harm beyond being able to pick off some scouts or tackle that are dumb enough to peel away from the group.
Most combat is in cruiser or larger and then it is less ARPG and more spreadsheet as the only options allowed are orbiting an anchor and pressing F1 on targets called.
This also ignores the fact that you need months of training just to fly a frigate properly due to support skills like 25% more fittings. Hours of grinding for isk since there is so much inflation in the game even a basic T1 frig with shit fittings is a few mil, full T2/meta 4 is 20+ mil. And the fact that reshipping is slow and tedious unless you are lucky enough to die just outside of Jita.
>>332427537
No cause CCP hides that data. Go take that claim shit back to GD Jenna Fag.
It's pricey and time consuming.
>>332425607
>trust random anonymous internet person
>get fucked over
shocking! i didn't see that coming at all!
be glad you live in 2016. ten years ago morons like you were sending their savings to nigerian princes left and right.
>>332427147
>pubbie
Shouldn't you be posting on SA?
>>332427652
Hey look an honest and accurate post.
>>332427552
By the way I'm the queen of england.
>>332427661
>>332419942
What now Anon
>>332427679
Why when I got dank forum leaqs for free?
>>332427667
that story happened about 8 years ago
>30,000 players? Why aren't the numbers greater?
Because it takes a month of training skills (which is just letting a bar fill up) to even remotely be in a position where you can defend yourself in PvP situations. So basically you buy a month of Eve and you can't do shit. THEN training more skills to where you can actually win takes 2-3 weeks just to train a single damn skill.
>>332427905
Yet in any other MMO it takes 4 months to reach Eve's 1 month progression point.
http://www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf
Who the fuck is going to learn all this to find out why they do shit damage?
>>332427905
Well, That's not fully true, you can tackle for groups really cheap, with no skills.
the problem is, you're so expendable at that point, you're literally worthless. You have to make a new group of friends, adapt to their paradigm and then, after you've made your gains in the skills area, you can actually do something, but not really because you get blotted like a motherfucker solo.
No one solos, It's not cost effective.
>>332428160
Eeeeh some ppl solo. They're just vets and very good. Kellon Darknight is a good example.
>>332427763
I'm a bitter vet since the bloodlines patch, I just get tired of shills thinking SNS is the greatest thing ever. We've had Inty brawls with manual piloting for fucking years, fun as they are if the only good part of EVE is what most people did while waiting for fleet form ups to happen then the game has major problems.
>>332428762
I had not heard of SNS. What's it stand for?
Its not a game for the average casual even tho the skill system would suggest otherwise the game is pretty unforgiving once you leave highsec, and there is never anything fun in highsec so you are gonna leave and you will die, and die and die and by then 99% of todays video game players quit.
I mean look at wow and how much it had to bend itself to keep its non loyal mass stuck for so long.
Well this game doesn't do that, and if it does decide to make something easier its a slow change and there will always be a trade off somewhere to make up for it.
/v/ is extemely casual and so is OP, this is why you just don't get it and probably never will.
The fun in EVE is the sandbox aspect, everything is made by players, run by players and killed by players, and when its gone its gone for good.
Anyone can betray you, everything has a value, outside of cheap suicide ganking with cheap ships, every ship represents time and investment and this is why people don't fuck around, "throw battles" for lulz or any other type of cancerous shit people do on other games.
The combat can also be as simple as a flash h-game or extremely complicated with many millions of different variables, modules, ships configurations, playstyles, boosts, drugs, skills and player skill.
Fitting a ship is the most post, pre and even in-battle fun I've ever had in any game, so many different thinga you can fit on a ship that can completley change so much about a ship and so many different ships, its like having over 100 different classes on your MMO and you can change the spec on all of them, you can create all sorts of clever fits for different situations, some will crash and burn, some will work amazingly well.
The map is also really cool, people live all over the place, and they are all different people and act different ways because of where they live, they all use different doctrines with different fittings and use different strategies, all of it affected by their past battles in their home.
>>332427147
>boohoo a game based around pvp is filled with players that don't let me fly around and do what I want
What a sour asshole you are. Don't play a game where safety mode is off if you can't handle interacting with real people.
>>332418408
>not ice mining
You fucked up.
Beside that, just fly a battleship and it will carry you almost anywhere. Or a T3-Cruiser.
>>332427090
Do you play non MMOs for more than a month straight? Do you pay for games that you aren't playing? Not sure what the issue is unless you have Alzheimers
>>332418408
>grinding ore
M8
Maybe like the first couple days.
I was in the Test Alliance Please Ignore with /v/ and within a week I had a decent ship fitted for scavenging. I'd just tail some guy who'd kill pirates for a mission and then mop up their corpses. It was actually pretty fun.
Highlight of my time playing was when my naïve friend and I were out mining by ourselves in Nullsec. I left my computer to grab something to eat. When I came back he told me how met someone. He said the man warped in, asked what alliance we were in, said 'brb' then warped out.
Needless to say we didn't return home with our ships or our cargo.
>>332428921
Super nerdy slicer, the videos that were linked.
>>332427459
This is why i will never subscribe to eve
>>332422513
>>332421970
70ies tech is comfier than far future scifi. This is why Minmatar are the best race.
>>332429519
Because it's pvp? Good for you. Go into an rpg thread and tell them that you won't play rpgs. It's just as insubstantial
The disparity between new and old players. Its boring.
>>332429224
Literally this is why eve will die.
>>332429874
It's 13 years old and still active
not many MMOs can claim that
>>332424265
The problem with EVE is retention. Nobody gives a shit about playing, even if they like the game, if all their buddies don't.
>>332429874
Because someone who never played EvE called you out on 4chan?
>>332429352
I'd rather pay $60 and play a game forever than pay $180 in a year.
>>332430097
If you have such a big problem with spending money you could just farm in game dosh and use that to buy game time
>>332429775
>Because it's pvp?
Reading comprehension.
>>332430186
Sounds pretty boring. Also how are they making money if just anyone can do this?
>>332430186
That'd be the most stupid thing I could do honestly.
With a single hour of work IRL I can already pay for the game, why would I work dozens of hours in-game to pay it?
>>332424439
Basically.
>>332430323
The game time you can buy in game gets bought by other people with real life dosh
They get in game money, you get game time
It's like wow token just without an automatic price
>>332430359
You can also play EVE for less than an hour to make enough dosh for in game time
but I agree I rather spend money on ships than game time
>>332430323
>Also how are they making money if just anyone can do this?
They aren't, that's why they're shilling everywhere they can. Technically you need to have a few months of skills and connections to make enough money securely to pay it off with in-game money, ie. be a newbie. Most of their playerbase is old and crusty and not paying a cent so they need to trick new blood into opening their wallets.
>>332430478
You are aware that there is a big war going on right now, right?
And after the sov changes they had a lot of corps taking stuff
and before that there was the halloween war which lasted for years
>>332430601
*not be a newbie
>>332430601
That's wrong
>>332424453
>bare minimum to keep that
More of which would be what?
>>332430530
>less than an hour
As a newbie? Or as a veteran with the best ship?
Is there a blog or something that tells all the crazy stories and tells how wars began and ended?
>>332430793
Both is possible
>>332430601
Thanks. I just keep reading the actually interesting stuff.
>>332423759
Nobody posting in this thread has even played EVE before, they just shitpost because they don't actually play vidya
I hope nobody thinks that the memers on this board aren't on at least 7 levels of irony
>>332430946
Your explanation is fishy, anon. Why would someone spend $15 for goods that a newbie can get in less than one hour?
>>332425254
I refuse to play the brawl playstyle, and 95% of frigates are that, so..
Maybe if they'd pull back the meta from T3D tripe, the gameplay would be fun.
>>332431091
Because people rather buy ships than game time
iirc the average age of ever players is like 32 so everyone has a job and they don't care about 15€
>>332431143
>95% of frigates are that,
That's just wrong
>>332425392
I have no problem with losing everything, but I can't save up for a Marauder because I can't fly it. I also can't do most other cash-out niches for the same, so... am I supposed to be interested? Are groups supposed to come together and enjoy frigates: the characters?
>>332430097
>$180 a year
That's my point though. Are you actually playing every month?
You'd need to play a $60 game for four months to get the same value as paying for 4 months of sub time. I can't speak on your behalf but I doubt many people play non sub games long enough to warrant the price they pay in comparison to how they lose their shit when they see an MMO sub
If you're not subbing when you're not playing, you're likely getting better value than you would buying one sum for a game you don't play nearly as much as the price point warranted.
>>332431285
I'll play this but can you explain how a newbie can make the sum needed for membership quickly? I still don't believe it's possible in less than one hour but it'd be doable in less than 10 hours for me
>>332431506
You're assume I buy $60 games though anon. I'm Brazilian, and $15 is the equivalent as 10% of the Brazilian minimum wage. Of course I earn more than the minimum wage, but my point is that $15 means much more for me than it means for you, I'd not spend it monthly for a MMO
>>332430218
You're using people acknowledging that the game is pvp as proof that the game is toxic. Your only argument is that you don't have a hug box in a game that isn't built that way.
>>332425965
Nah it's only been over the past few years that numbers have been plummeting, and rightly so.
>>332431091
He is bullshitting
The only way you could ever possibly hope to get 1 billion isk as a newbie in an hour is to be so incredibly lucky that you find some rare ship on the market that was posted wrong and then managed to buy it before some bot auto-buys it and then you actually manage to sell it for 1b isk
As a veteran it might be POSSIBLE to make that much in an hour, but you would need to be a very good "veteran" with lots of resources
>>332431613
Scamming
I saw people do it
>>332431780
>>332431824
Well, that's disappointing
Are people that enjoy EVE the same people enjoy shit like farming/trucking simulator?
>>332426184
It is P2W. Every stat and ship in the game comes from SP, which can (for all intents and purposes) be purchased with money. A group of buddies starting with enough real money can do anything; and it takes just as much money to get SP from just subbing.
>>332431780
>but you would need to be a very good "veteran"
A brainless monkey could do escalations
>>332431390
>>332430731
>>332423797
This guy is absolutely wrong.
>>332431613
>I'd rather pay $60
Regardless. The actual price point is not the point I'm making. You're paying money for an entire month of game play. I doubt people play many games for more than a month of actual play time. If you're paying for an entire year of sub time and not playing the game, that's the fault of the player. Just unsub
>>332431635
So it's going to take like what
20 years before it actually dies?
I am fine with that
>>332431506
>That's my point though. Are you actually playing every month?
not that guy, but i own a $10 nintendo cart that i've put easily more than 2000 hours into. i do multiple hour sittings 3-4 times a week.
>>332432000
Prove it
>>332431506
Im still playing dark souls and I got that in 2013 for 30€ or so
I also played morrowind for 1000+hours after picking it up for 10€
I'm still playing dwarf fortress a d that's free
>>332432170
his tips are proof, newfag
>>332426676
Nothing in this post is accurate.
>The game is simple.
>It's p2w enough that vets consistently won't high-SP vs. low-SP just to have a basis for review
>SP can be purchased with ISK in-game now, thus with real money (though official forum character purchases have been a thing)
>>332432223
>newfag
I have been here since 2007
Because it's a fucking full time job.
Everyone who says you can play this casually and still have fun is lying.
>>332432170wrong
>>332432289
Exactly my point, 2007 is still newfag. You need to be at least 2006. AT LEAST.
>>332427224
Yes.
Yet, it's 20k if the 1.5 accounts per sustains through every login.
>>332431941
No, I like ETS2 and find EVE too slow and boring.
>>332432142
>>332432189
>I doubt people play many games for more than a month of actual play time.
>many games
I have many games that I have plugged thousands of hours into. I was doubting that people have not purchased games that they have played much less than the time offered by an MMO sub. I was not implying that EVERY game people play less than what is offered by subs.
>>332427459
Not to completely undermine the whole argument, because there's a much better statement for that; but the game gives plenty of freebies. Insurance can probably completely replace whole outfits of the proper class.
>>332432072
CCP isn't. It'll be over much sooner if they can't make more money.
>>332432657
CCP made a profit of 20m USD last year
if EVE was real life, almost all of the thing you can do in the game would be considered a boring job and yet people trick themselves into thinking it's fun. It's like people who think Stardew Valley is a fun game.
>>332427494
Remedying this is such a cool topic. What are fresh players supposed to do? Answering that without "join all the corps", the game is fixed.
>>332432749
Sure they did. https://www.themittani.com/news/ccp-goes-dark-company-financials
>>332432942
http://vb.is/frettir/hagnadur-ccp-aldrei-meiri/125413/
Themittani is a shit site
It doesn't matter how hard assblasted EVE addicts try to defend their crappy game, no matter how much they insult other people for their differing opinions, EVE will stay a shit game with incompetent developers and their mentally ill playerbase.
>>332433195
So EVE is bleeding money but WoD saved them?
> In 2014 the company generated a loss of 8.7 billion, but this year was a great investment in the game World of Darkness dismissed and had a significant impact on the income statement.
>>332433564
No
They lost money because of WoD so they sold it
>>332433564
*cancelling
>>332427763
It's a strawman.
>>332427652
>most of the time you do not find another similarly sized force
Welcome to EVE. What this is supposed to imply is no point against manual piloting. Frigates are getting BTFO by T3Ds and the almost complete migration of the meta to more expensive ship classes? OK. What that all is supposed to imply is true for everything. N+1 is a problem only fixed by removing arbitrary gating. If players were having fun in whatever ship or niche they felt like flying or businessing, there would be basically no place for their complaints and low retention.
The playstyle resonates well through any fleet size though, as Intys are so helpful.
>Most combat is cruiser or larger
Firstly.. predictably no. Yet, cruisers can go-fast manual pilot as well. At this point, the post is losing validity.
>Months of training
That has nothing to do with the combat, except admitting it's a problem for the game's density, (which would result in available action, etc.).
>
I thought about getting into it right around 2010, and whenever I tried to make a thread on /v/, I'd get 50 replies with images of people asleep at their computer.
>>332428027
What fucking MMO?
WoW has players raiding at max level within a few hours, as the fresh xpac comes with a max level character. Share the drugs.
EVE has single player?
>>332433673
Ok, which meant that they made money off the sale, still it says
>CCP sales declined by 2.9 million between years
Which isn't a good sign. I'd also ask where they're getting the info from if CCP isn't releasing financials anymore.
>>332434378
>currently the current year
>playing WoW
ayloma WoW is seriously the shittiest game in the world
>>332417742
The "skills" a.k.a leveling system is retarded, if they completely removed that it would pretty much fix the game.
The #1 reason I'll never pick up EVE is because I don't have any friends that play it. From what I hear, the game is more of a space politics simulator than a game about flying spaceships. You have to know people and be part of a large Corp to get anywhere, which sucks for a new player because it involves a lot of bullshit to move up in the hierarchy to even have a shot of getting in.
>>332432309
>live in a wormhole
>have PI running to pay sub
>play maybe five hours a week
Maybe retards think it's a full time job
>>332434430
A decline of sales is not bad when you also spend less money on development and do stuff more efficiently
>>332434706
Sorry not as bad
>>332434693
None of that sounds like fun. Any MMO you spend less than an hour a day playing doesn't seem like a good time.
>>332420993
Not dumb enough to pay for the privilege of a second job, apparently.
>>332434564
There are 1000s of corps you can instantly join as a newbro
What hierarchy are you speaking off?
>>332419942
Manual movement is pointless unless you're a tackler or a tiny ship of some sort and want to close distance without getting evaporated.
Once you get a real ship though it's just spreadsheets and menus. Even worse, those big as battles people talk about, it's almost always being led by one guy, and all everyone else is doing is right clicking targets he posts in the chat box.
WoW has better combat, at least in that you have to hit buttons in the right time/order. In EVE you just toggle shit on.
What decides if you win or lose in EVE is if you came more prepared. Personal skill will not matter at all in large battles, once everyone is at least good enough to follow simple directions.
I played the fuck out of EVE, and I see the appeal of working with a big corp and taking down other corps. It's pretty exciting, since the ships have value and the deaths matter as a result, but the actual combat itself is not fun, which means it's harder to hook players into the absurd grind (or wait, rather) that the game requires before you can participate in the meat of the game.
>>332434846
Guess what
You can decide how much time you want to spend
>>332434951
All of stuff only applies to sov space
>>332434918
>There are 1000s of corps you can instantly join
and get screwed over by, it's always better to play with friends, but good luck getting any to play this. It might be worth a shot if it was F2P, but at $15 a month no thanks.
>in b4 "lel git gud noob i farm holes and pay with PLEX"
>>332420993
>finish tutorial
>now grind belt rats or mine for a month or more while you wait for skills
>if you leave do high sec you are instantly killed by the player that happens to have been playing longer so has higher skills and flat out better numbers than you in every way
>even in the same ship they can still do twice your damage per second or more while having significantly better defenses just from passive skills.
Null Sec is fun once you've got the skills leveled to actually stand a chance. Problem is that takes ages, and there is nothing to do but wait and farm gold while it is happening. You expect players to play a game for more than a month, while doing all the absurdly boring shit, before they can have some semblance of fun?
That's just PVP as well. If you're into PVE there is noting to do besides mind and grind rats.
Neither of those turned me off the game, but I can easily see how it would turn the average player off.
>>332435240
>and get screwed over by,
If you are scared of getting scammed you should join one of the big newbie corps
no one will scam you there
>>332432170
Prove what? Most combat frigates are scram range.
>They aren't making money
That's definitely bullshit. Everything's monetized.
>moving the goalpost
That's accurate.
>wrong
Is also.
>>332435318
Belt ratting hasn't been a thing for over half a decade
You should leave if you don't know shit
>>332435097
Ships don't control differently in null sec.
Also that entire post is from a null sec experience. I worked with a corp for like 2 years expanding and going to war. I enjoyed it, but I am weird like that, and can easily see how others would not.
I enjoyed it for the metagame aspect. If anyone actually claims to enjoy the combat, they are either wearing heavy fanboy blinders, or just trying to make people play the game so they have someone to shoot.
>>332435471
Played like a year ago. Still seemed like the only way to make money from combat unless you are lucky enough to find a player with a bounty that you have the power to take down (rare unless you have been playing for years, and by you don't need the dosh.)
>>332434378
Honestly, after leveling a monk from 1 to 83 now, with still two more expansions to plow through, I am totally okay with this. I am burned the fuck out.
>>332435420
Crucifier
Griffin
Maulus
Vigil
Burst
Bantam
Navitas
Inquisitor
Condor
Kestrel
Tristan
Cruor
Garmur
Succubus
Firetail
Harpy
Ishkur
Wolf
Jaguar
Purifier
Manticore
Nemesis
Hound
Deacon
Kirin
Thalia
Scalpel
All of these are mostly long range ships
Now explain how you got that 95%
>>332435613
You really can't compare 0.0 pvp with other forms of pvp
also
>what are missions
>what are anoms
Are you fucking retarded? Did you look at the online numbers in the launcher and assumed all the people online are all subscribers? EVE has hundrets of thousands players and multiple hundret thousand players play weekly. 30k is just the average numbers of players that is online at any given time, wich still would make EVE a top 20 game on steam, more than enough to be a massive commercial success and safe from any meme-meister who wants to yell "dead game".
>>332417742
The gameplay is about watching grey bars turn into red bars.
>>332434693
How much PI do you run?
I had about 3 planets and got fuck all, maybe about 15-20 mil every 3 days, my skills aren't maxed out yet thoughits fun as fuck to setup though
>>332428027
At least during those 4 months you'd be playing the game to push progress forward.
EVE you're just paying a sub and waiting.
Granted you SHOULD be trying to earn some ISK so you can actually use ships that need your new skills, but even if you do it's entirely separate from actual skill progress which is only waiting.
>>332435942
Missions are instanced belt rats. I was including them when I said rats. It's just going to zones to kill enemies. Its fun for a bit, but wears thin fast and does not scale very far into the progression.
>>332435623
in vanilla WoW, 1-60 took probably quadrouple the time that it takes to go 1-100 today.
quit being a little bitch. follow a route or some shit.
>>332434460
It's a basis for the discussion because it's the most subbed MMO. It's also probably the most fun with some creativity.
>>332436123
Vanilla WoW was fun though.
>>332435942
There are even more actually
Sentinel
Kitsune
Keres
Hyena
Crusader
Raptor
Crow
Ares
Stiletto
Claw
Merlin
Crucifer navy issue
Griffing navy issue
Vigil navy issue
Maulus navy issue
I am probably forgetting even more
>>332434461
Is this a vet, or is the only demographic that mentions this consisting of sub-20M SP danks?
All these losers complaining Eve is boring. How about you play to get a cool looking small ship, get a cloak and go on a galactic tour. That's what I did and it was a fun couple of days. Same with exploring things like wormholes, and all kinds of other instances. Just try and do everything once till you get bored and move on to the next. No game lasts forever though but that's not a bad thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x5O3jatFro
>>332436115
Missions and belt ratting a really different things
You seem to lack a lot of game knowledge
>>332435002
His point is valid. What the fuck else would the character do? PvE is for capitals.
>>332436302
>Just try and do everything once till you get bored and move on to the next.
The problem is you need to play for months (or be subscribed for months) to get the skills required to do anything significant. The best part of the game is mass pvp, or 1vs1 pvp in null sec. Both of these things will see your automatically lose (or just not be taken) without months and months of waiting for bars to fill up.
You'll have done everything you can do without the skills, long before you have the skills to do the actual fun things.
>>332436463
It's called PvP Anon
You probably never heard of it because you are the casual scum that is killing /v/
>>332436279
I've tried many times to play eve with friends, the most I did was playing for 4 months were we went from 0.0 to wormholes, but despite learning fucking fast I need to wait for my char to catch up in real time and to basically be worth anything I would have to wait years, fuck that.
>>332436652
>farm money
>buy character
>now you can fly all ships
>>332436394
It's the same idea. Get mission, go to play, kill guys, go to next place. With some text. I'll grant that they are pretty good at first, but you need to grind them hard to get rep progress, so you do the same mission hundreds of times. Meanwhile you've hardly advanced in power, despite vigorously doing missions, because it's just timers that matter.
If you can't see how that is unappealing to the majority of players, then I don't know what to tell you.
>>332436769
Sounds like every other MMO desu
>>332434951
>Manual movement is pointless unless you're a tackler or a tiny ship of some sort
>Once you get a real ship though it's just spreadsheets and menus
>[no argument provided]
Protip: T3Ds completely BTFO whatever point was trying to be made. Good luck catching a manual piloting, rail Hecate.
>>332436726
But why? I fucking hated that as well
>Need a char for industry
>need a chat for pvp
>need a link char
>need this, need that
Why can't I just fly a titan day 1 if I got the money to buy it? Since I'm a retarded noob I'm going to lose it as soon as I'm out of the PoS but that's my problem, why can't I just do whatever in a sandbox if I have the assets to do so? Why do I have to wait for faux "skills" of my character?
>>332436063
>Did you look at the OP and assumed it's talking about subscriptions
Obviously
>>332436879
Other MMOs if you work hard you progress faster. That's the whole treadmill. That's what hooks people.
>>332437109
It's the same way for EVE
>>332437057
No one ever complains about not instantly being max level in other mmos
>>332437263
Are you retarded?
If I want to fly just properly a BS I need like 6 months
If I want a level 100 character I can do it in about 10-12 hours of /played in WoW and In a day I would be geared for endgame PvP/PvE
>>332437057
>why can't I just fly a titan
because organizations that actually play the game could make 6 million titan accounts? Do you not think of anything beyond your self?
>>332437437
It used to take 10-12 DAYS to hit level 60 for a decent player, let alone getting geared for raids.
>>332437437
Nice insult Anon
Really showing off your argumentation skills
>If I want to fly just properly a BS I need like 6 months
A few days or a few weeks actually
>>332437164
Skills are a far bigger bottleneck than ISK, especially in a corp.. You can't do shit to hurry skills besides change attributes, which you do once before training for weeks.
My corp had like 20 people that all had plenty of ISK for ships, but we couldn't let them actually enter combat since their skills were garbage, and they were all stuck waiting for timers. The fact a war victory is decided by ship costs makes it even worse, since letting them fly at all is a huge disadvantage to the war, which results in people being stuck in dock.
I get how much of /v/ (including myself) has a fairly maxed character, so they don't remember how shit it is being stuck unable to really do anything but grind isk.
>>332437263
Because other games progression is tied to your playing, not strict unchanging timers.
>>332437437
Just buy skill injectors you poor fag
>>332437696
>You can't do shit to hurry skills besides change attributes,
But that's just wrong
>people still comparing it to progress in other MMOs
Timers != Player made progress
>>332437607
It was an example, holy fuck do you even play the game? There's basically no way someone that started the game would have the money to buy a titan, in no way possible, but it was to make retards like you understand that it's a sandbox where you can't actually do anything for a long ass time and god forbid if you were a miner that wants to start pvp, because you will have to start from square 0 with your skills.
Hence, why it's a requirement to have between 2 to 3 characters at minimum which makes the game even more boring.
>>332437793
Please enlighten me then.
How does playing the game help your skill timers at all?
>>332437927
>farm isk
>buy skill injectors
>apply skill injectors
>you now have more skills
or
>farm isk
>buy character
>now have a character with the skills you wanted
>>332437694
>A few days or a few weeks actually
Sure you can, I bet you can rat alone in 0.0 with a few week of skills.
Fucking please don't be a moron, nobody can defend this stupidity, not even the eve general does.
>>332438061
Nice ad hominem
>>332438141
>If I spout random words I read on 4chan that will surely show him
There isn't even an argument, just to point that out.
>>332435942
>griffin, bantam, navitas, etc.
Combat ships.
>manticore, purifier
Fuck off.
>>332438240
But they aren't random words
They have a meaning and they relate to your post
>>332438275
What's the problem?
>>332438032
It would take a new player more months to buy a single injector than it would just waiting.
Have you forgotten how shit the money you make is before you have skills that let you do later content?
Its the people doing late game content selling the injectors, so they are expansive as fuck for new players.
Just to cover my add, I am sure there is some way to make mad ISK very fast with no skills, but thats not something the average player would ever know how to do or manage to do. It's also obviously not easy or everyone would do it.
>>332438307
You should check out what they means and when they are used, since you are unable to distinguish and argument from stating facts, in which you are just spouting random words.
Because it's really slow paced and doesn't appeal to a mass market?
It's a niche game, it's cheap to run, and makes lots of money with that small number of players. They OWN the space MMO niche, literally 95% marketshare for "space mmo".
>>332436583
>flying around for hours to get a dank fight or so
>scanning around for hours to maybe get a dank drop to afford PvP
Game's shit. It would be without the potential for criticism if it just had decent progression. It in no manner is, and good luck with that.
>>332438472
>attacking your opponent's character or personal traits instead of engaging with their argument
You just insulted me and did not provide a counter argument
>>332438447
I know a lot of new guys that don't have trouble making money and they can all afford skill injectors or even buying a character
>>332438061
Making ISK is directly tied to your progress and skillful, well-informed players can make ludicrous amounts of ISK. There have even been cases of traders taking day 1 characters and trading themselfes up to a PLEX within a day. You are given all the tools to progress on your own ability from the moment you start the game up.
You point was loose since they introduced character trading and now that they introduced skill injectors your point is nonexistant.
Infact, you are suffering from a severe case of git gud and I pity you for likely making less money in an hour in your daily job than I do in EVE.
>>332438447
Beacon orbiting has always been great dosh, but it and every other grind is so fucking boring. It's literally just sitting in a site, now with more rat respawning.
Money-making accessibility is correlative with the fantasy meta of an MMO. There's a position to fulfill with options, and without, there is nothing as interesting as just paying real money or quitting.
>>332417742
Because the barrier for entry is way to high. The kind of content you mention is locked behind months of drudgery that makes a minimum wage job look more appealing.
Please stop shitposting, nobody cares and the thread died awhile ago.
Friend got me to try the free trial and I enjoyed it. Comfy as hell exploring and doing some early lvl jobs. I would keep playing but I would not pay its sub fee. Already paying for another.
>>332438669
There was no argument to counter.
>>332417742
Because this game literally tests your autism level with instructions as long as some novels right at the start. And thouse explain you quite an important shit so you can't just be like in most modern game and 'figure shit out in a fly'. It also takes considerable time to even make your first decent ship that won't be blown by anyone and most of the fun is when you join guild.
MMOG are dying, the hot shit now are 'session' based games, where you look for a match that lasts set amount of time like mobas, can:go and hearthstone since normies also play games now and they don't have time to spend +4 hours to actually play the game.
>>332437793
What a win for how unrestricted SP progression is.. /s
>>332439014
My argument is that you can sit in a battleship as a new guy in a few days or in a few weeks and that you don't have to wait for it to train
>>332436583
Eve threads are so rare that it's easy to forget how much worse evefags are compared to moba and soulsfags
>>332437607
With what resources? Last I checked, a single titan would empty the Jita market of some stuff.
Fucking irony.
>>332439201
/v/ keeps crying about casual games and SJWs ruining the industry yet 99% of people on this board just play triple A and shitty indie games
>>332439157
You can fly the bare minimum requirement in only a little over a week.
To be competitive, it takes months.
It's a numbers game, so if the enemy has Rank 5 guns and you have Rank 3, and everything else is identical, you're going to lose.
>>332439451
You are failing to understand
You farm isk to get SP
>How to win in 1v1 PVP
>Have better skill ranks and equipment
>How to win mass PVP
>Have more people with better skill ranks and equipment
>>332439548
so it's like all mmo pvp?
>people shitting on EVE with objective facts
>mad EVE fanboys getting all "g-git gud" or "c-casual scum"
>>332439661
Please post some objective posts or link me to them
>>332417742
It has more players, it just peaks at 30,000 these days.
It's a time intensive game. You have to be able to put a lot of time in to get the really meaningful player interaction, and you have to also be non-autistic enough to build relationships with other players. Those are two traits that don't go together too often.
Main thing is time though. Time and money, it takes dedicated play to pay for your monthly membership with ingame money.
>>332417742
>$15 a month to play a video game
>$180 a year
Is there a justifiable reason it costs this much?
>>332439767
Read the thread.
>>332439647
In WoW a skilled PVP can punch far far above his belt.
I've seen level 99s beating level 100s who have full pvp sets.
Also the key to mass pvp in other MMO is to have more heals.
>>332418459
It's not that hard to pay with in game money. It's usually foreigners that get addicted to one or two games. There's actually a distinct and somewhat significant Russian community in Eve. Sort of the same for Romanians.
>>332439535
Failing to understand what? It would take 40B ISK to get a decently maxed PvP character.. and that's the cheap version with the already-made character, SirFuckery AceDoobie.
The only thing that seems not understood is that SP completely implodes the games potential down to a tiny demographic that can pay real money for every little interest (coming from hundreds of millions of skill points).
That's contrast to literally any other MMO where leveling to max for a niche can take a few sessions.
>>332438840
How's that retention?
^_^
>>332440135
You are moving the goal post
>>332439105
I think it's also that a certain kind of cutthroat autism is required to get far in EVE. To everyone else and especially normies, it comes off as very cold and unfriendly, which is appropriate for a spaec gaem I guess. It has its niche but that's all it will ever have.
Still, when shit goes down in EVE it makes the national fucking news. Not many other games can say that.
>>332439878
Can't find anything
Guess you were wrong
>>332440008
Same thing can happen in EVE
I saw people in shitty ships kill people in FOTM ships that were 50 times as expensive
>>332440281
>Still, when shit goes down in EVE it makes the national fucking news. Not many other games can say that
CCP is paying the media to cover their game.
>>332439830
>What is game design philosophy
If only it was about actually logging in.
>>332440384
In EVE its a result of exploiting a weakness of the ship and taking the exact right equipment, not of playing better once the fight actually starts. You can't outplay once the fighting starts, save for being able to escape/chase better.
This actually appeals to me more, in many ways, but again I am only pointing out reasons it's not popular in general.
That is certainly one of the reasons.
>>332440384
Your denial is proving my point.
>>332440641
>You can't outplay once the fighting starts
>heat management
>cap management
>charge management
>attacking the right target
>flying in a certain way
>using drugs in the right moment
>>332440281
>Still, when shit goes down in EVE it makes the national fucking news. Not many other games can say that.
That's because no other game attaches dollar amounts to permanently destroy-able equipment/ships.
It's easy to write a headline like "$10,000,000,000 Lose in EVE!" because big numbers get clicks, even when people have no interest in actually playing EVE.
>>332440240
The whole reply discussion is about MMO progressions. That post is basically every fact needed to weigh what to play. EVE loses, if for nothing else than how boring making ISK is.
Goal posts sustained.
>>332440753
Just give me some objective facts
If they are in the thread you can just copy paste them
Shouldn't be too hard
>>332440887
For what? Read up on motivation if so interested in answering why retention rates are probably in the decimal percentages.
>>332440887
You expect me to read the entire fucking thread again? Do it yourself if you're so desperate about defending your favorite game.
>>332417742
>only has 30.000 players
What's with this meme? It peaked at over 35,000 concurrent yesterday, sub amount is closer to 300,000.
As for why it isn't more than that... it's the barrier to entry. The game has improved the new player experience a ton, but it doesn't change the fact that everything in the game is controlled by players and alliences that have existed for years and years. There's no more room for the little guy to go out and get his own little bit of space, unless you join one of those currently existing groups.
>>332441048
>>332440982
Confirmed for having no arguments
>>332440878
The point we are talking about is that you can't progress by playing
Which you stated multiple times
>>332441098
Neither do you, you just ignore everything that's already been posted in this thread.
>>332441291
But I did post actual objective facts and I argued with people
You did neither
>>332417742
>Monthly fee
>P2W
>deep learning curve
>impossible to accomplish anything solo
>game punishes experimentation
>Waiting, the simulator
>Multibot
>Griefing
>Reserved and toxic community
>>332417742
>What is a sandbox MMO where every profession and playstyle is behind payments?
exactly, it's p2w and basically a skinner box simulator
i can do that without paying by playing cookie clicker
>>332441184
Nope.
>>332417742
>Why aren't the numbers greater?
The game is boring.
The chances of affecting the political topography of New Eden as a new player are virtually nonexistent.
Goons have their claws in CSM, CCP and have been given preferential treatment in the past (GM cheats).
Most vet players have two or more accounts for espionage/trading. 30k SUBSCRIPTIONS is not 30k players.
>>332441642
As I typed this, I came to realize that EVE tried to capture the most autistic public yet still enforced them to play a social networking simulator. No wonder it's been sinking since day 1.
There's no room for the little guy because the little guy can't pay for SP.
Merciful design for both the casual and minimally-interested demographics is key. Why does SP have to mitigate every wish a fresh character would have? It in no manner does. So, it's an arbitrary system that hampers how much money the developing company can make by throttling interest and potential experience.. in an effort to make more money.
A house divided against itself can't stand.
>>332441376
Arguing "there are no objective facts here" isn't an actual statement for or against anything. It's irrelevant. Fuckoff or make a point, pls.
>>332442098
>making no point
Anonymous board.
>>332442505
Are you trying to say these are not your posts?
>>332441376
Will you look at this? More objectives facts incoming.
>>332441642
>>332441757
>>332442308
>>332442379
>>332442401
>>332442401
Explain this post to me please
>>332439661
>>332440641
>In EVE its a result of exploiting a weakness of the ship and taking the exact right equipment, not of playing better once the fight actually starts.
EVE is strategic in it's majority, yes, but there is still lot of room for error within an engagement. Let's take a look at a classic tackle vs. kiter frig engagement and what both parties have to watch out for:
> the kiter is slower but with proper meneuvering, by turning carefully while keeping momentum a kiter can actually outjuke a tackle so hard it escapes webrange
> this is a two way street, because the tackle has to focus on predicting those same jukes, just pressing Q->target will get you blown up 40km away from your enemy
> an experienced players engagement can last around 4 minutes but the capacitors only yield 1,5. Each party has to micro manage those to get the upper hand
> Both players also have to overheat. overheating your modules is similiar to the capacitor management, because it is more important the more experienced you are. Being webbed for 3 more km can easily be a death sentance to a kiter. Overheating your microwarp for a single additional cycle can completly break your tracking computer, shield extender, etc.
> let's not forget that you also have to constantly watch dscan, it only takes ~20 seconds for anybody in the solar system to track you and exploit the fight
And there is more, ammunitions, alligning properly, ending and starting fights, etc.
Yes, preparing is still more important. But going CTRL-> Target, Q-> Target, F1,F2,F3,F4 is guaranteed to blow you up even if you fitted your frig to counter the opponent.
>>332430629
EVE hasn't ever had a full blown war that makes the money flow. They're just there, lying on their piles of money. Low level players have no way to participate in them anyways, doesn't matter how much do the game claims so.
If you aren't piloting a T2 or T3 ship you're doing NOTHING to the other players unless you're 5vs1. Good luck getting all the pieces together to have a single good fight.
Holy shit T1 ships are so useless they're sold for dirt cheap and the market is saturated with them already because no one uses them.
>>332442750
What's there to explain? It's all spelled out.
>>332442308
>30k SUBSCRIPTIONS is not 30k players
Again, it's far more than 30k. More like 300k.
Your other points are very valid however.
>>332442993
But anon if T1 ships were competitive what reason would be have to wait in a hanger for three months to fly T2/3?
>>332442668
>>332441642
>Monthly fee
Yes but can be prevented
>P2W
eh
>deep learning curve
not a bad thing
>impossible to accomplish anything solo
no
>game punishes experimentation
no
>Waiting, the simulator
no
>Multibot
no
>Griefing
not a bad thing
>Reserved and toxic community
>toxic
Feels like league
>>332441757
Most video games are skinner boxes I don't see how this is supposed to negatively affect EVE
>>332442308
wow calling a game boring is such a great fact
>Goons have their claws in CSM
I fail to see the negative side
> have been given preferential treatment in the past (GM cheats).
All people related to this have been fired and banned
>Most vet players have two or more accounts for espionage/trading. 30k SUBSCRIPTIONS is not 30k players.
Not true but you are free to provide me with a source
>>332442379
Explain to me how calling people autistic is a fact
Also it hasn't been sinking since day one
>>332442401
The little guy can pay for SP just fine
>>332442993
T1 ships are amazing
T2 and T3 ships can easily be beat by T1 ships
Low level players always participate in wars
>>332443289
Exactly
>Well then, let's level up those skills to T2
>3months 2 weeks 3 days and 23 hours
HA HA
NOPE
I don't even know if it's going to be worth it.
Also
>He leveled up Amarr anything!
LOL YOU FUCKED UP KID.
>>332417742
Spreadsheet simulator. Enough said.
>>332443365
Single-word replies to those points serve nothing.
>>332442639
Enjoy.
>>332443365
I'm not sure if I should give you some points for trying so hard.Also, are you autistic?
>>332443846
I am not
Nice try with the insult tho
>>332443598
Make your points longer and you will get a longer response
The denial is real.
This is why no one wants to deal with EVE players.
My biggest problems with EVE have always been:
>multiple accounts encouraged
>important game information impossible to find without googling
>being one shotted with absolutely no recourse happens often, even in pve
It's an amazing concept but I can't get over this stuff. Especially multiple accounts. That has always felt gross to me, even in other games like DAoC.
>>332443934
Please let me know if consistently posting "you" to every post in a reply line isn't autistic.
The only relevant point for most players, on that list, is if the game is P2W. EVE pulls such a play that most can't even enjoy what they came for before realizing how much they'd have to do nothing or how much money they'd have to pay.
>>332443738
You should get a trip if you want to continue an argument that you didn't start
It would also make it easier to filter you
>>332443365
>wow calling a game boring is such a great fact
People play games for entertainment. In EVE you watch module buttons cycle. I have literally watched still motion captures of paint drying that are more exciting than hitting a POS for three hours at a time.
>I fail to see the negative side
Goons have a voice in affecting balance changes to the game. Unfortunately they also own an effective monopoly on several key moon resources for T2 production IIRC. Structures like the Mobile Siphon Unit were nerfed before their addition to the game because Goons feared a negative impact to their AFK farming empire.
>All people related to this have been fired and banned
That doesn't change the fact that it happened.
>Not true but you are free to provide me with a source
The first sentence is absolutely true because it's necessary for mercenary work. Espionage on a tactical level involves circumventing the Local 'players shown' channel by using aliases as scouts and L4 agents to pinpoint war target hideaways.
The second part is an error on my part, I am very sleepy.
>>332444170
>don't reply on a forum
>>332443365
Let me break down the simple underlying fact here regarding this mix:
>deep learning curve
>playing solo in a corporative game
>experimentation
>griefing
In EVE, if you are not a vet and you are playing alone, every few hours you are bound to ONE, maybe TWO chances of an actual combat engagement that allows you to learn from it. That's it, and this is optimism.
That's so remarkebly pertinent to the game that once you join a corp, if you are going the fighting way, you are bound to trainning with the vets, they will give you the ships and all the shit you need because it's the only way for non vets to actually learn something.
Good luck finding this kind of support in today's EVE.
>>332444181
I am going to sleep now, please do not reply to my post with contrarian horseshit after I leave.
Do people that argue "you have to wait for SP" or anything similiar not realize they are insulting themselfes?
All SP is purchasable by ISK. You are given all oppertunities and no limitations to make ISK from the start. A very analytical and extremly informed player can make a billion from scratch within a couple of hours time, then reinvest that money to make even more money, inject himself skills from his profit yields to once again make even more money. You just have to have the skill and the knowledge.
Just because you aren't good enough, just because a huge amount of players is not good enough, does not mean the game actively puts artificial barriers in your way. Because it doesn't. Sky is the limit.
>>332444181
>People play games for entertainment. In EVE you watch module buttons cycle. I have literally watched still motion captures of paint drying that are more exciting than hitting a POS for three hours at a time.
How is that different than watching cooldown timers?
You are free to not attack poses
>Goons have a voice in affecting balance changes to the game.
if they get voted in they represent a big amount of people ergo they should be represented
It's called democracy
>The first sentence is absolutely true because it's necessary for mercenary work. Espionage on a tactical level involves circumventing the Local 'players shown' channel by using aliases as scouts and L4 agents to pinpoint war target hideaways.
Is every EVE player a mercenary?
Spies are part of the game but I don't even know a single player that has one
You are acting like every vet has one
You can use locator agents without an alt
>>332442987
>outjuke a tackle so hard it escapes webrange
Can someone translate this into non-autism speak?
>>332431143
You're a retard. A week old newbie in a crucifier or maulus can make a 400m T2 logistics cruiser or a 1b machariel utterly useless in a fleet engagement because of their EWAR.
>>332444653
>A very analytical and extremly informed player can make a billion from scratch within a couple of hours time
So you would suggest a new player to study several websites and wikis just for a fucking game? I hate playing the autism card but by now I'm convinced you and your kinsman are autistic beyond saving.
>>332444571
Is there probably any fix to referrals (buddy groups under a vet) being so without potential? ..Without removing SP?
I'm legitimately asking. Nothing within recall seems like a successful idea except undermining SP or the economy in some manner through random drops.
>>332444653
Buying SP with ISK is entirely unrealistic for a new player. As a vet trying to hurry out a few skills to round out your build, Injectors make sense. New players without the skills required to make significant ISK would need to grind something highly profitable for ages to get a single Injector, which does very little.
You can't even make okay ISK without waiting for months. Mining/Missions with T1 ships and low skills makes under 100kisk/hr easily, and a single skill injector is 700m right now.
It's also only 500 skill points, which is very little in the grand scheme of things.
Basically a new player would need to grind absurdly hard for absurdly long just to make the timers move slightly faster. They'd also have to somehow know a highly efficient way to make money, and that injectors exist, to even know to bother. This isn't something players automatically know when they start the game.
So sure, you can grind ISK for somewhat faster skills. The only caveats are that you have to have prior knowledge about the game mechanics, know a way to get assloads of ISK, and have a ton of time to do something that is probably boring (anything that makes good ISK is) for hours.
Can confirm the game sucks
>>332445118
Big news buddy, accessability&competetiveness is a polar design choice.
On one end, you have a hightly comptetive game that players have to invest learning and effort into to be as good as others.
On the other end, you have "pick up and play" games, but the players that played for a week are barely diffirent from those that played for years.
What's better? It is a pure taste choice. Sorry for your need to insult people just because you are inable to comprehend it.
>>332445629
> Buying SP with ISK is entirely unrealistic for a new player
that is the point of a skill ceiling. You can make it, you can buy starcraft2 and you already have all you need to play in the dreamhack tourney, but you won't make it because you lack the experience. It's not the games fault, it's your lack of skill.
>>332445209
Honestly, I tend to think that's possible but not viable, since it's related to EVE's design. The whole community orbits around that.
Some anon said something about reducing the performance gap between t1 t2 and t3. I can see the obvious problem around that but I think that's achievable.
I recall that the worse part about EVE is moving from t1 to t2, financially speaking. Once you do that everything get's done way faster. Changing the gap here might help a little but I understand that could destroy the economy, so it would require a parallel solution.
>>332442668
I'm not the guy you are replying to, but most of those are outright wrong and the rest are subjective.
Reading through this thread has been a painful exercise in cringing at ignorance. If you don't play the game or can't even keep up with what's going on at the moment, you should not be posting.
People talking about things they don't understand just spout shit and make themselves look dumb.
>>332446115
Great.
But, it's foolish to not realize how this appears from the stance of a new player.
What if you were to pick up SC2 and be a natural. Sure, without experience you'd never win a tournament, but you can climb the ladder fairly high with natural skill and intuition. You'll win games.
Meanwhile in EVE you are not allowed to use certain ships/weapons becuase you didn't wait out an arbitrary time barrier. Even if you were a prodigy who was amazing at combat and gearing up, you'd never win any fights because your numbers would be to small. You'll lose every time, at not fault of your own. You simply have not been subscribed long enough. Plain and simple.
Isn't this game made for your average fedora using person?
>>332444916
>>posts talking about solo
>but you can fuck off logistics and PvE ships with your leet corp
..Having to wait around for a fleet is the epitome of non-gameplay. It's not even as if they can be doing something productive while docked up if all their SP is put in combat.
>>332445915
>accessability&competetiveness is a polar design choice
Except, most esports games are the most accessible in the industry.
That's also putting accessibility and competitiveness in the same discussion as whether or not to purchase an unlock to a gameplay that's already being payed for. Suddenly, "skillfulness" seems much less relevant. Paying for SP has nothing to do with combat skillfulness, yet it gates it (the most important factor to retention, probably -- why play if the character is gated from becoming the best).
>>332446115
>timers are skill
>>332446732
They fancy themselves in top hats with monocles.
>>332446732
No, it's made for only the most fadora wearingist of people.
>>332446732
>fedora
A helmet would be more accurate.
>>332446630
You undermined my initial point tough.
>>332444653
All SP, or "time barriers" as you put it, are just a question of player skill. You can buy injectors, you can buy whole characters. You can buy everything with ISK, and your ability to make ISK is, as I explained, tied to your skill.
>>332429123
Best post i've ever seen, and i don't even play EVE
The "great stories" typically sound much cooler than they actually are. I was a newbie in BRAVE when they got completely destroyed in Catch. I fought massive battles every few days.... and it sucked. PL would come in with a small fortune's worth of ships and the system would suddenly be going at 10% speed and you'd press a button every ten minutes. And that was the exciting scenario. The pre battle stuff typically was sitting around system waiting for baddies to show up and doing absolutely nothing.
I then went to wormholes with bigger but less ships and it's the same there too, you wait on a hole and you can't leave or you lose. Then finally your opponent arrives and you either destroy them immediately or run away really quickly.
To sum it up the pvp sucks and 99% of the game is waiting and grinding
>>332446590
Well let me give you some noob input then.
>Join game, have fun.
>1 month in, join friendly corp, helpful people, hardworking officers, corp leader a giant asshole.
>3 months in, finally getting enough isk to afford good stuff, still months away from flying a decent ship, imagine fitting it decently.
>5 months in, corp leader fucks everyone over, we learn his character was a second account. People part ways.
>Actually had some fun and got things done a few rare moments.
>Cycle repeats 2 more times.
Such is life in the exciting void that is EVE.
>>332421970
The shuttle navigation system is not point and click but its completely automated, you dont have direct control in space, unless of course its absolutely necessary and in that case youre a fucked cause theres no fucking way a human being can navigate in space.
Space flight is nothing how you see in movies or games. You dont control spaceships like a fucking fighter plane. e.
>>332446948
You can't make enough ISK to buy them without already having skills. At least not at a reasonable pace.
There is nothing about the SP system that relates to the actual ability of the player. There is no reason to think someone with better skills is better at playing. It means they have been playing longer, and nothing else. You could argue that more play time means more skilled, but thats not always true. More often true in numbers games like EVE, yes, but still not a universal law.
>>332446892
Or a Pete Rose wig.
>>332447304
>You dont control spaceships like a fucking fighter plane.
You do in space games that actually have fun combat.
>>332447141
>>1 month in, join friendly corp, helpful people, hardworking officers, corp leader a giant asshole.
All I can tell you is to join a corporation of people that are not dickwaffles.
/vg/ has an alliance called white stag and they take in newbies. You will absolutely not get betrayed there, but you will get memed on a lot especially when Cosmo gets drunk and starts spamming cuck but that's not really all that relevant.
/eog/ has been shitposting harder then usual for the last couple of weeks, though, so you may need a while until you get some useful newfag advice until it settles down again.
If you still don't know where to go, get into EVE university or Pandemic Horde, as they will teach you the how, why and where of playing the game, though not necessarily how to make money.
You may also get in on the giant ass war currently going on, if sitting in 10% tidi is your thing. If not, they probably have something else for you to do, ask around.
>>332444571
Now you CAN.
You can buy skill injectors
>>332447317
> You can't make enough ISK to buy them without already having skills. At least not at a reasonable pace.
Now I am just repeating myself. You are given all the you need to be a trader from the start. You do however, need to bring the knowledge of current politcs, current meta, analytical skills, etc. How good you are at these is entirely depending on you. And yes, it can be done, you can earn a billion from a fresh character within a day. People have done it, I've done it. Here is an anecdote reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/40gafi/so_that_5k1b_challengehow_to_get_lucky_and_do/, but I don't even need anecdotes to prove it. There are thousands of items in EVE, a market crash is happening every single day on some part of the market in some trade hub, just browse through the graphs in the market and you will see margins that are worth billions happening every single day. Exploiting those margins is a matter of your own ability to be a good trader.
>>332429123
Here's the draw that the EVE+SP argument seems to never make. "Millions of modules and ship configurations" -- variety isn't depth.
There is pressing basically no more buttons with or against any setup. The depth of the combat is manual piloting, a huge percentage of ships and loadouts don't have no potential for.The remainder of niches require a lot of SP just for competitiveness.
The point is that the game literally has to be interesting. The gameplay can be. Timers and gating isn't -- especially not where leveling is archaic and overplayed.
>>332448051
Even trading requires SP. If a player is invested enough to forego playing the game to be able to trade and purchase a character (and already knows to do this), they're probably not what's being addressed by retention discussion. The git gud argument is invalid.
>>332448051
What sort of brand new player is going to immediately fly to the market and know how to expliot it well enough to skill up at a reasonable pace? Place was to fight, or mine. Market stalking is something vets do when they need to make money, not something you can expect new players to do.
Did you forget this thread is about the low subscription numbers?
This is from a new player standpoint.
New players don't want to be gated for ages before they are given an actual chance to partake in anything involving other players (in an MMO)
>>332448754
>New players don't want to be gated for ages before they are given an actual chance to partake in anything involving other players (in an MMO)
This. Progression accessibility gating out skillfulness accessibility is probably the literal fucking worst for design philosophy. They're paying to play, not to be shown the basement.
>>332448565
> Even trading requires SP
No. It can increase your profit margins, but it does not require SP. That is simply wrong.
>What sort of brand new player is going to immediately fly to the market and know how to expliot it well enough to skill up at a reasonable pace?
None. That's the point. The player can do it. He will not because he is not yet good enough.
My original point was there is no waiting in the game. No artificial time barriers. And it still stands. Just because you aren't good enough doesn't mean the game is actively limiting you.
>So many newbies in this thread.
I've played for over a year, let me tell you why I quit. Started in 07' and resubbed (with a few IRL friends) back in 14'.
>Starting out characters have so little SP and ISK to start they can do jack shit. Most beginners won't care, information overload anyways. People will say "join a corp" but anyone you find will either take you for fodder, not trust you, or have wardecs (people who gatecamp tradehubs baka). You can sell PLEX to other players, but most people shudder the thought of micro-transactions, how different is this?
>PvE is a joke, it's all boring and suboptimal. I've tried it all, incursions, missions, WH, null, sites, ganking. Incursion running and carrier ratting is the endgame, 99.5% safe, boring $ that is worse gameplay than any other MMO I've given thought.
>PvP is entailed entirely of gatecamps, blobbing, and outshipping. Faction warfare and wardecs are cancer, not actually good-fights. Nullsec is emptier than the vacuum of space. Fights are dominated by a handful ship types, but the most important combat module you'll find is a cyno (dropping in friends from 10 jumps away). The exception and height of PvP: frig-vs-frig (manual piloting, overheat, range control) usually ends under 30s.
>The ships all look cool, the ship spin counter was a huge addition EVE's core gameplay of sitting in station waiting for skills or fleet-ops.
>The music is nice, but THEY REMOVED THE FYUCKSING JUKEBOX GODDAMMIT HOW THE FUCK DID THEY MESS THAT UP?
Finally, logging into the game won't give you anything to do. You have to drive yourself to do anything. It's easy the first several months, hearing "skill-training-completed" or wandering dangerous space. People say /v/-casuals can't enjoy this game but finding fights (the thing most people will come to this game for) take hours and end before they even start. EVE is still really cool and in depth and you'll glance it like a pornstar, but like a person its flaws are still there.
>>332438782
Having a corp of bitter vets to funnel you money hardly counts.
>>332448754
>New players don't want to be gated for ages before they are given an actual chance to partake in anything involving other players (in an MMO)
Yeah, that's the point of the SP system, pretty much. To weed out impatient kids. Combined with the mechanics which seem just complex enough to dumbound imbeciles, they make for an excellent gating method keeping the chaff out.
If you can't stick with it, you have no business being in the game and can go fuck right off. Games that don't have this kind of gating mechanic are doomed to turn into LoL or DOTa.
>>332446115
That is a terrible analogy for one that one game is a onetime purchase and you don't need to renew a subscription so you can keep playing it to get better. Then two that of course you won't be skillful playing something new, you have to spend time learning it otherwise most people would walk out of their mothers womb talking.
>>332449564
>being this elitist
>>332449564
>Yeah, that's the point of the SP system, pretty much. To weed out impatient kids.
That should be a job of the "your ship just blew the fuck up" system. If you over exaggerate your ability to fight, it costs a ship.
Waiting for timers does not in any way mean you are advancing your ability to play the game, or your skill at doing so. It's just removing arbitrary locks on items necessary to even have a chance at combat.
Infact, you don't even have a chance to learn the ins and outs while skilling up. You'll learn basic mechanics, but that takes what, a week? After that you're just grinding or waiting until you can eventually enter pvp combat and have a chance to win.
You need to wait for timers before you can even begin to git gud, because no one is going to learn anything getting isntagibbed in a T1.
>>332449491
There's at least 2 confirmed 'legit' ways to earn enough cash to do whatever. I would suspect there's another few.
>>332417742
>How come EVE with all those great stories, happenings, being a space game and so on still only has 30.000 players? Why aren't the numbers greater?
Because the game has one of the steepest learning curbs for an MMO, that also just happens to include permadeath which immediately turns off potential new players. Those 30,000 people have invested an immense amount of time into the game and thus can withstand the issues at hand with insurance and the like.
So, which side to root for?
>>332450004
Realistically speaking, the times it takes to develop advanced player skills is much longer than the time it takes for the skill bar to fill up and give you your support skills.
People can't get into properly fitted PVP battleshits right out the gate, but what they don't know is that they have no business running around in them until they know where they should take them, the dangers of undocking one in the first place and when to even use them.
By the time you actually learn what your skill que should look like, you will have realized you have enough skillpoints to do what you want despite having wasted over a third of it on things that are either useless for PVP or useful for some branch of it you don't care about right now.
Unless you want to use capitals for some godforsaken reason. Hint: there's a reason why people have dedicated capital alts and the SP requirement is only half of it.
>>332449564
Appeal to extremes, with no argument.
>no business being in the game
To whom? Based on what qualifications? Because not paying for a game based on its features is decent sense and has nothing to do with patience in this case. It's about paying for something that the game isn't providing, then which requires even more money.
So, those without money or some 20-40hrs. per billion of some 40B+ for *just combat skills* shouldn't play the game?
Shouldn't the game be a full experience from the start? How else can there be action but with competitive fleets and ships?
>>332417742
Tried it for a few month.
>mining boring as fuck
>fuck it decide to explore
>skill for a covert op
>make shit money with occasional jackpot
>great fun and exciting but very dangerous
>get bored of probing, get a drone boat for rats
>holy fucking shit this is boring
>join a corp for pvp
>lel lats wait here for 2 hours while talking shite on vent waiting for a newbie or get destroyed by a fleet
I can see the appeal but not for me.
>>332450598
>Realistically speaking, the times it takes to develop advanced player skills is much longer than the time it takes for the skill bar to fill up and give you your support skills.
>implying
So, no majority of players could learn to fly a fully-skilled Slicer optimally before SPing for it? Anything can be learned to efficiency in 20 hrs.
Speaking of gitgud.
>>332450494
The Imperium is run by goons. They're a bunch of scumbags. Normal EVE players might also be scumbags, but goons are a higher tier of scumbag.
>>332450617
>To whom?
To people currently enjoying the game. The correct term for this is "target audience".
>Based on what qualifications? Because not paying for a game based on its features is decent sense and has nothing to do with patience in this case. It's about paying for something that the game isn't providing, then which requires even more money.
Then don't pay for it and stay out.
>So, those without money or some 20-40hrs. per billion of some 40B+ for *just combat skills* shouldn't play the game?
Skillpoints are not a requirement for playing EVE Online. The correct attitude towards playing it is. You can have plenty of fun with a new character if you are ready to expend the effort, go out and make things happen.
>Shouldn't the game be a full experience from the start? How else can there be action but with competitive fleets and ships?
Not really, no.
"competitive fleets and ships" covers such a large area it's hard to talk about in just one thread.
>>332417742
Probably because its a stagnant casual shitfest inhabited by one of the worst mmo communities of all time
No one wants to play a game where nothing happens. Even a themepark has more interactivity.
>>332450598
This assumes everyone learns at the same pace, and a very slow pace at that.
It also assumes people learn without doing, and that somehow by being subscribed for longer you automagically learn to play.
In actuality what happens is that players need to wait ages before they can finally actually start to pvp, which is when they actually start learning. It's hard to stay interested in a game when you need to wait a month or more before you can actually start doing the interesting part of the game.
>>332450872
>So, no majority of players could learn to fly a fully-skilled Slicer optimally before SPing for it? Anything can be learned to efficiency in 20 hrs.
A slicer is one ship. And no, you won't learn to "fly" it in 20 hours. You might learn mechanics and shit, but most of PVP is learning about the people you are dealing with.
>>332417742
I almost enjoyed it but its too expensive and requires too much time to do anything.
>>332451382
Please to explain how you learn how to use a ship in PVP by waiting for timers and not doing PVP. If that's too hard, maybe explain how a player is expected to learn PVP when they die in two shots and do no damage due to a discrepancy of SP.
The timers don't force you to learn shit before you do it, they force you to wait before you can start learning it.
>>332417742
Call me when they remove plex
Until then, game is P2W and I dont care
>fundamental part of any sandbox is making money for yourself
>ruin it by making it so anyone can get infinite money from spending real money
>>332451706
You don't learn by sitting around docked and playing skillque online, you learn by going out to fight and dying repeatedly until you figure out why you are dying and use this to die less and make others die more.
I assumed this goes without saying, but I guess I'm asking too much of you.
>>332417742
The gameplay is just plain boring, and at this point there's too much of an insurmountable gap between people who have been playing for years and have tons of skills unlocked versus new players who don't - a gap that cannot be surmounted by skill or anything because the training system is fucking dumb and based on real world time. If it weren't for those I would play it.
>>332450108
The learning curve after unlocking the ships and modules is hugely low. If the game had an arena, most roles could be figured out in 5-10 matches, AKA like an episode of
>>332451382
>a slicer is one ship
Which isn't helping that side of the argument. A single ship taking more to unlock through timers than it takes to learn basic guitar is absurd.. It's like that for every single unlock, multiple times over. What if it's the only ship the player would like to play? There's no option of just taking 1/4 of the SP for maxing out the single faction.
It's not obvious what the argument even is here. The idea of SP timers being a realistic intro to ships and learning is completely BTFO. It serves absolutely nothing that wouldn't be better without it.
>>332451206
>To people currently enjoying the game. The correct term for this is "target audience".
Except, it's not. The target audience is any demographic that would play the game. Thus, SP is a direct counter to every potential subscription because it limits gameplay.
>Then don't pay for it and stay out.
Most do so.
>Skillpoints aren't required for playing
They are. Gating.
>no argument
>>332452376
episode of capeshit*
>>332452034
The reason you are dying, is that you don't have enough skills to fly a ship with decent DPS and suitability. During that time you learn nothing. You'll die too fast to have anything to take away from the event.
Before you wait for SP timers, you stand no chance and will learn nothing because you will stand no chance, to either win or learn.
Learning comes AFTER the skill times, which makes them entirely pointless for anything except getting more subscription money.
>>332452376
Pretty sure you can hop into a slicer at exactly 0 seconds.
A very basic set up would be about a day of training. You'd need that time to acquire the funds to buy it anyway.
>>332452681
>what is fitting
>what is t2 ammo
>flying a Slicer without these
>>332452376
>Except, it's not. The target audience is any demographic that would play the game. Thus, SP is a direct counter to every potential subscription because it limits gameplay.
So?
I personally don't care about the number of players, as the quality of players is much more important.
I'm sure CCP would like more money, but CCP is also linked to the playerbase and many of them don't want the server overrun with retards.
>Most do so.
Good.
>They are. Gating.
Yes, and? If you can't handle it, get out.
>no argument
One can't have an argument without set points to argue about and I'm NOT going to start talking about specific viable and unviable ships because that goes beyond the scope of what I can cover in the scope of this thread.
Or with the 10 more minutes I have before I go to sleep for that matter.
>>332452834
You wanted to fly a Slicer. You never said about flying it well.
Flying it well would need actual hands on experience to learn how to kite too. So feel free to learn during the fortnight or so while you train up.
>>332452834
That's maybe a month and a week for the lot. If you learn how to use the ship, how to manually pilot it, how to manage your heat and how to earn enough money to fund your PVP by then, I am most impressed and you can probably get into just about any corp in the game with a bit of effort.
>>332453084
You wanted to fly a Carrier. You never said about flying it well.
Flying it well would need actual hands on experience to learn how to assign drones too. So feel free to learn during the year or so while you train up.
>>332453084
>>332453274
>I'll learn to do something while waiting for the timer to expire that allows me to do said thing!
>>332453415
Capitals are for alts.
>>332453084
>missing the point
Maxing out a Slicer for the basically optimal fit takes months. Any player could potentially learn to fly it optimally in hours.
This is awful for fresh players, and there's no counter argument to this.
>>332453030
>adherence to a shitty gameplay system that serves nothing is quality
Standards.
>Yes, and?
>that backpedal to deflection
>viable and unviable ships
Has nothing to do with the conversation. The game is enough of an experience to be interesting to most/plenty of fresh characters, and it isn't.
>>332453574
The game has to be enough of an experience..*
>>332417742
Most people don't actually think mmorpgs are good places for pvp centric games. If you want pvp, play something where everyone's given the same characters/weapons (shooters/sports/fighters) or progression is fast (moba/rts).
>>332418137
/thread
>>332453456
I'm sure they let anyone be a CEO these days, even that fresh faced idiot straight outta college who has no experience whatsoever.
DUST 514
U
S
T
5
1
4
Sad to know as of this moment that the game tanked. I honestly thought it was cancelled. Turns out the servers are shutting down at the end of this May.
>>332453695
>having to wait out a timer to fly a toy plane is akin to a CEO position
>>332453986
Well you got me there.
That said, fuck instant gratification.
>>332453695
I don't quite see where you're going with this.
A CEO position requires people skills, and other demonstrable skills that you can pick up without being a CEO.
EVE playing skill is EVE playing skill, you can't, pick it up by playing a different game (for the most part) and then be ready once the timer is done.
I have no problem with players needing to git gud, I have a problem with how the game makes you arbitrarily wait for a month and a half before you even have a chance to start trying to git gud.
>>332419942
>>332420204
you can fly a ship with WASD now fyi
>>332454138
>fuck instant gratification
The ships still have to be produced. The ISK to purchase and ability to fit them properly still has to be obtained.
Being on about something on a shallow level is obviously unhelpful. Proficiency.
>>332454195
You can learn how to fly the ship properly.
I wouldn't just hit approach with a slicer. I have to learn how to kite, maintain range, pick appropriate targets etc. And you can do that with other ships in the game.
>>332427315
>>332427459
>>332429224
>don't like it, don't play
Yes exactly, that is why nobody plays. Nobody likes it. I can spend a month mining and grinding stat bars and boring shit to get a space ship and shoot things. OR I could play Asteroids and instantlyrics have fun shooting shit in outer space for free.
>>332453719
> game tanked
CCP did say the made a profit off of it and they will be releasing a spiritual successor on PC.
>>332454207
It's awful. "Manual piloting" here is maneuvering by dbl-clicking the direction.
>>332454385
You need to learn that shit in pvp.
You can't learn it while getting one shot.
You also can't learn it in any meaningful context from NPCs, who just orbit you.
>>332454195
Other gameplay definitely can help with EVE skill. FPS games are shown in studies to improve spatial awareness, visual acuity, etc.. all of which are hugely helpful for out-maneuvering little blips.
Players can and should git gud without having to not play the game.. or without having to be really fucking awfully fit. The whole point is that most would quit before coming up with the SP for properly fitting a ship. The point is just as well that they very well should quit before coming up with that much -- welcome to EVE retention.
>>332454742
That stuff can be learned from watching videos.
Argument won.
>>332454441
>Yes exactly, that is why nobody plays. Nobody likes it.
Thousands of people play it and thousands of people like it.
>I can spend a month mining and grinding stat bars and boring shit to get a space ship and shoot things. OR I could play Asteroids and instantlyrics have fun shooting shit in outer space for free.
That's nice. You can blow up all the spaceships you want there and not a single one of them matters in any way shape or form.
EVE ships aren't just tools you use to interact with the world, they are things you earn, have and spend.
>>332454742
If you are talking about solo PVP, you should know how hard that is in the first place. You also won't get oneshot ever unless you fuck up really, really badly.
And very skilled players would rack up multiple kills in a row with very low skilled characters and T1 ships just to show that it can be done if you are truly skilled.
If you are talking about group PVP(not nullsec blobfests), you should be getting direction from older players who will probably stick you into some cheap cruiser or destroyer so you can participate and learn and then pick what you want to develop into.
If you are talking about nullsec blobfests, you follow directions to the letter and ask no questions.
>>332455117
General ship kiting and shit yeah, but picking fights and FC'ing are better done by playing the game.
>>332455483
>they could always learn more
Can it just be admitted that SP is basically only a deterrant from sub interest? Couldn't it be said that any player could be any role in the game, whether CEO of a huge corp or the best player in the game? Then why limitations?
>>332455685
Because most players are shit and really should not be handed the awesome.
>>332455863
Then how can the instigation meta be awesome?
>>332455974
You lost me. I don't get that term.
>>332456162
Action.
>>332455685
>CCP removes all SP from game.
>Playerbase whines about removed barriers of entry
>t2 ship prices rise tenfold from increased demand
>market stabilizes because any player can run industry to meet that demand
>widest variety of ship roles seen in every fleet
>EVE garners millions of subs
>botting remains persistent problem
>promises by CCP to build a firewall
Make EVE Great Again
>>332429123
This
been playing since red moon rising and I'm always glad it had the unforgiving part for it, its a niche game, obviously not for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with that, despite the game having problems.
Some of my best and worst time in vidya all happened in eve online
>>332429123
Supporting fresh characters getting rocked and bored because of their low SP and "the fun in EVE is the sandbox aspect" are counter.
>>332456459
Poetry.
>>332456238
Latch yourself to someone who is awesome and eat the scraps from their table. That's what 99% of null is after all.
>>332456459
They could also make it the sort of skilling where doing actions related to the skills gets you EXP for that skill. At least that way you'd be able to make your own progress.
The problem is when you've got this nice new ship that you want to play, you're getting sick of the game from flying the same ship for a month, and now you have nothing you really need to do for the next two weeks while you wait for skills.
Not that they will ever remove the SP system. At least, not as long as its a subscription based game.
>>332457194
Unsustainable.
Waiting for fleets is awful. Most players are "upset" about their inefficiency whether or not they can get on mails with a blob. Furthermore, solo with low SP is still shit, and so is being able to do nothing business-y well.
This whole "just find buddies" is a meme. The game is either great and full or it isn't. Low-SP gameplay is really shallow.
My favorite part about EVE online is that the players for some reason think they are superior to people that still play WOW.
>>332457456
>This whole "just find buddies" is a meme. The game is either great and full or it isn't. Low-SP gameplay is really shallow.
Go play a theme-park solo-able MMO then. There's only a billion of them out there.
This kind of attitude really grinds my gears. Why the fuck would you pay a monthly subscription for a game you can solo? THOSE GAMES EXIST ALREADY! THEY'RE CALLED SINGLE PLAYER RPG's!
>>332457892
>EVE can't be played solo
>EVE shouldn't ever be played solo
What drugs, there?
>>332457625
If you still play WoW as it currently is then everyone is superior to you.
>>332458310
This
>wowfag trying to butt in
outta here.
>>332458310
>>332458527
>EVE is literally just as bad if not worse
At least very few WoW players take it seriously.
>>332458605
>At least very few WoW players take it seriously.
uh huh.
>>332454557
I like the idea of crossplatform though. Linked accounts would be even better so I could get my shootan fix on either PC or (in my case) PS4 and have the same character being leveled.
>>332458605
EVE players imagine that their game is the best to play, when really, the idea of undocking to the absurdly uninteresting PvE content.. if not of just huge PvP roams without action.. is quite uninteresting.
If EVE had an arena / BGs, maybe there'd be something to say.
>>332458853
It's humorous because Sony provides the option of M+KB for their platform, so it's plausible.
>>332459002
>If EVE had an arena / BGs, maybe there'd be something to say.
It's called sisi.
>>332459214
I guess.
The idea of losing ISK is still a more engaging idea though.
Also, Sisi is always empty.
>>332459302
>The idea of losing ISK is still a more engaging idea though.
FW complexes are pretty close to what you are looking for, as long as you know how to use dscan and zkill to avoid blobs.
>Evelopedia is gone
>>332459604
The problem with that is still finding action.. especially for a worthy engagement.
>Even the most "exciting fight" in the game is just a bunch of dots on the screen slowly moving in zero strategy deathballs.
Gee, I wonder.
>>332459820
This is what nullfags would have you believe.
>>332458853
Crossplatform FPS games are always horrible. Console players will just get shit on by the PC players.
>Still no attribute removal
>>332459676
Nobody used it, and its been rehosted plenty of times by others
Atleast I got the icons and stuff
>>332460395
Feel free to imgur that
>>332455356
>That's nice. You can blow up all the spaceships you want there and not a single one of them matters in any way shape or form.
1. Have you never played Asteroids? Seriously?
2. They don't matter in EVEN either. They aren't real, and you don't own them. You can't get real money from them, and when you one day stop paying your sub, you no longer have them.
Enjoy paying to do nothing.
>>332458310
>MMO player
>Thinking he's somehow superior to any of the WoW addicts
Good one, m8. I r8 it 8/8
>>332434912
but dumb enough to be unable to make enough isk effortlessly to fund multiple account subscriptions and pvp
>>332458310
If you kill your enemies they win.
>>332459820
>I have never been in a large fleet engagement
spotted the highsec pubbie
>played this game years ago with broski and today coming on and learning you can now functionally buy skillpoints
>this has been the case for a good while now.
fug dhat
>>332461809
>that image
top fucking kek
>>332460146
Unless they give console players autoaim to compensate.
>>332461725
I have never played EVE. Just watched some guy stream it on Twitch. It looks even more boring that I previously imagined. If this is the most exciting it can get, the game is really a fucking borefest.
>>332461809
You could buy SP for many years now, there is a character market. How are injectors any diffirent?
Besides, injectors are a major sink for the economy. They also are a great reason for eve players to laugh at the embarassment of those who claim "I need to wait to do this and that" ITT.
>>332462663
are they not expensive?
>>332460146
>>332461956
Come on, this is probably less than 15 posts up: >>332459002
>>332417742
it's the only mmo that does mmo right, it's a shame that most people just want a themepark though. Personally I'd hate it if space was overpopulated..
>>332462268
>admits he has never played the game
you are a retard and your opinion is literally worthless, stop posting
>>332462815
injectors are around 640m last i checked, so roughly half the price of a plex
>>332462815
~half a PLEX for ~8 days of training time
This makes them cheap for veterans, but veterans do not need them and they gain only ~4 days of training from them anyway.
The injectors are worthwhile for players in their first year and veterans that need alt chars.
> tfw get blazed and fly around nulsec exploring
A pretty good feel. No "spreadsheets", just scanning down shiet and having faggots trying to chase you down.
>>332463210
There are over 5k systems, and even with 30k players online, most systems are consistently empty. It's not as if there's much to do in any single system anyway, so 'overpopulated' is really only a thing if they all merge into corps and sit on each others' gates.
It's less than obvious what that player density even is, and anything that happens can be remedied by game design.
>>332463381
If you want new players to get into the game, you're pretty much doing the exact opposite of what you would need to do.
>>332463716
Welcome to bittervets.
>>332463716
> If you want new players to get into the game
top fucking kekkeroni pepperoni
there is no other mmo, actually no other game that had such a consistent playerbase over such a long period of time. eve players don't have to worry about recruiting new people.
and even if eve players would, they wouldn't be looking here. Back in 2013, during the biggest ingame conflict of video game history, there was so much publicity. I sent out over 20 invites to /v/irgins. ZERO subscribed. And around half did not log in more than once.
>>332464203
So what are you doing in this thread then? The actual question was how can EVE gain more players.
>>332463716
Quality over quantity. I'd rather have 30k competent players than 100k or 1m idiots like you. I bet the only thing you'd accomplish if you actually tried the game would be feeding CODE lots of retriever kills before ragequitting.
PLEX is like 800,000,000 still isn't it?
The people who haven't quit yet are probably turbolosers.
>>332417742
because it's a game that is pretty much completely open ended to the player.
The era of Star Wars Galaxies is over, people want their gear treadmill themeparks.
>>332460146
What about Paragon?
>>332464661
plex are over a billion these days
>>332464546
> So what are you doing in this thread then?
Having myself a giggle
>>332464709
>implying there's any problem with the game except gating
>for a market that started out playing fucking Gameboy
>>332417742
I would play this, but its fucking expensive for the game that it is
>>332417742
While most mmo's problem is short endgame where you can get almost the best stuff by binging the game for a month, eve has this retarded barrier of entry hidden behind skill training. Obviously it would be stupid to be able to afford and fly the largest ships in the game after only a couple of months, but when leveling up a single skill can take up to 3 FUCKING MONTHS REALTIME it really discourages a lot of new players.
Basically it's the game you really have to invest yourself in, make an alt to minmax, join a corp and play all the fucking time. It's not a game to just hop in once in a while and fuck around.
>>332443365
>Monthly fee
>Yes but can be prevented
By beeing a slave to the game.
>>332466796
no, by getting out of highsec and doing shit aside from mining.
So... anybody willing to toss a Skill injector and about 500m isk to a newbie to jump start his ratting career? Almost have all the skills up for this. :)
>>332469410
I'm sure some would grind assist
