![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/8GQK5Z0.png "latest[1].png")
Please explain what Garrosh did wrong?
Why was it OK forThrall to ignore the rules of Mak'gora?
He's an orc, he's always wrong.
He did nothing wrong.
Voljin and Thrall were too cucked to step aside and let him make the Horde great again.
>no choice to side with Garrosh and launch a new invasion on Stormwind
He did nothing wrong.
He did nothing wrong until the writers made him go full retard and do literally everything wrong possible
>>331979314
Dumbass wanted to return to an orc-only Horde, after they were cured of their blood lust. With their ore veins depleted. Damn Horde hipsters.
ITT: edgy teens defend mindless slaughter
>>331979314
Garrosh is a fucking faggot. I don't like Thrall too much, but he gave him everything he needed to succeed and he fucked it up.
>>331980191
the writers were just trying to make him the "bad guy"
so they had him blow up that city and be completely fucking retarded
Garrosh did everything wrong. He was a manchild who went out of his way to betray everyone he knew because "WE WUZ WARCHIEFZ N' SHEIT".
He didn't fart in my mouth.
>>331980093
Feels bad, man. Thrall's an asshole.
>>331980567
>>331980225
>>331980191
>>331980895
>>331980923
Stop ignoring this picture. >>331980093
>>331981947
But the later half of that post literally explains several things he did wrong
Sure they aren't entirely his fault and he was a man thrust into a position he didn't want and was nowhere near ready for, but he did indeed perform actions that were wrong
>>331980093
>dabbled in forces he did not understand
That's wrong.
He didn't trust the strength of his orcs.
He didn't notice the parallel between old god blood and demon blood
Besides that whole cap skips over Theramore.
Not the bombing, that was one of the most legit plans Garry ever executed, it was how he decided to hunt down the civilians afterwords.
Completely forgetting why he dismissed Krom'gar.
Nigger forsook honor.
Most of what Garrosh did wrong can be attributed to incompetent writers. Cataclysm quests in the early areas had him on the way to actually becoming a good leader, but Blizzard suddenly decided they had to have him as the next big bad so all the development he got was wasted
>>331982925
>he didn't dabbled in force he did not understand
>he actually did and let me show you why
good job contradicting yourself.
>>331984506
Because he was becoming a better leader than Thrall ever was and Blizzard wants the Horde to be a mess for Green Jesus to save it later.
>>331985043
>>331980093
>He did nothing wrong.
>>dabbled in forces he did not understand
>That is a wrong thing.
Better wording?
>>331979314
>tasked to go to alternate worlds and recruit orcs for army
>do this multiple times in alternate worlds for infinite army to fight legion
>decide to convince grom that they are destined to be great conquerors
>ruin everything
Garrosh was shaping to be a decent character early on, but blizz really fucked him.
Garrosh is literally the Garithos of the Orcs
>>331979314
>Please explain what Garrosh did wrong?
Ok
>Murder
>Torture
>Kidnapping
>Theft
>Treason
>Desecration
>Attempted genocide
>Declaration of War
>Why was it OK for Thrall to ignore the rules of Mak'gora?
Thrall didnt ignore any rules of Mak'gora
Rules of Mak'gora
Each participant is allowed one weapon.
A blessing of this weapon by a shaman of their choosing is permitted, but not required.
Body armor is forbidden.
Each participant must have at least one witness.
If both participants refuse to fight one another, they are banished from the clan.[6]
Traditionally, it is to the death, but under Warchief Thrall's rule it became a non-lethal combat, similiar to Warsong's Mak'Rogahn. Participants can choose to forgo this change.[1] However, even when operating under the old rules, the victor can choose to spare the loser's life.[5]
What rule did Thrall break?
>>331986237
He had the weapons of his hammer and the elements.
Also, it was supposed to be non-lethal.
Also where were the witnesses?
>>331979314
that nigga doesnt understand 2 things
1) maths. he has bad maths
2) rape isnt ok especially if you do it to chilrens. its like 2 times as bad and 4 times as bad if you do it to their dead bodies
that nigga going to hell
>>331986237
No witnesses
Magic
Thrall wore armour
ok guy
>>331979314
Fucking Garroshfags. He did a lot of shit wrong.
Still, the only thing Blizzard had to do was to show that Thrall was sorry for all the shit he caused. At least something like "I am sorry, Garrosh, I didn't knew what was going to happen" and then make Garrosh say "too late to be sorry" or some shit like that. Then continue fighting and kill Garrosh for mere survival.
But Nooo... Metzen said to himself "badass badass honor badass loktar badass badass for da horde" and came out with a halfassed "no u".
As for the Mak'gora rules, one can argue it was wartime and there was no time for fancy rules and shit. But, then again, we're talking here about Rushedlords of Nocontentforayear.
>tfw no Farahlon
>>331986547
Elements is not a weapon
It was not suppose to be non-lethal
Yes both Thrall and Garrosh had a witness
>>331986814
>No witnesses
Wrong, player was the witness. did you even play the game or are you just shitposting?
>Magic
Literally not a rule
>Thrall wore armour
No he didnt
>>331987220
I did and do play the game, I go by what was shown in the cinematic which includes thralls armour (rewatch it if you don't belive me) and nobody else shown except Thrall and Garrosh
The fact that it specifically says a weapon is allowed and doesn't say "a weapon or magic" pretty much says that its just a weapon duel.
>>331987027
Who was Garrosh's witness?
>>331987220
He literally wore Ogrim Doomhammer's armor to the fight minus the shoulderpads. How fucking blind can you be?
>>331987469
>A blessing of this weapon by a shaman of their choosing is permitted, but not required.
There is LITERALLY NO rule against magic
>>331987867
Blessing your weapon isn't the same as using spells.
>>331987867
I don't think Thrall had an enchantment that summons a tornado, lightning and a huge stone hand, guy.
If they said "or magic" then it would be safe to assume that, but if you go back on literally ANY other Mak'gora duel nobody used magic.
Now did YOU play the game or are YOU shitposting?
>>331988009
There's literally no rule against using spells
See >>331986237
>>331988086
There is no rule against using magic you shitposting retard
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Mak'gora#Rules
>>331988279
>>331988112
>>331988086
>>331987867
I like how all of you are still avoiding the two rules he broke.
>>331988279
Theres no direct rule saying no magic but there is a direct rule saying a weapon, read what I'm saying
Theres no direct rule for not wearing clothes at most stores but there are rules saying "wear smart casual" or whatever, same deal.
>>331988450
There is NO rule against magic.
Not a word saying you cant use magic in any way shape or form
The closest to even mentioning magic says its allowed.
>>331979314
Garrosh did almost the same things that the Orcs from the first invasion did. He got handed a Horde in a pretty good contidion and in peace. The only reason his reign broke apart was because he couldn't deal with the cataclysm.
>>331988405
Thrall broke no rules at all
>>331988762
Okay well you're repeating the same line every time you respond so just look at the other 2 rules clearly broken instead you dribbling retard
>>331988762
>you are allowed one weapon
>ONE WEAPON
>Uses Doomhammer and magic
See the problem here?
>>331988949
>Magic is a weapon
This is some hardcore damage control
>>331979314
>Why was it OK for Thrall to ignore the rules of Mak'gora?
it wasn't. Thrall will lose all his powers in Legion because the elements got mad as fuck they were used by him in a petty manner.
>>331989008
Well if its not a weapon what is he doing using it in the duel then?
>>331988874
Except he didnt break any rules, you have already been proven wrong.
>>331986237
Jesus Christ I thought the Star Trek convention had rolled in with all this talk of Pon Far and other shit, you fucking nerds.
>>331988873
He's wearing armor, and Garrosh did not have a witness. He still challenged him to Mak'gora.
>>331989121
He had armour and Garrosh didn't have a witness
>>331989106
Are you retarded?
>>331989106
He was Doomhammer(A weapon) and The Elements/Magic(Not a weapon)
>>331989106
>Garrosh starts punching Thrall
>Why is he using his arms in a duel
>>331989106
Doesn't Garrosh kick Thrall? Shit man. If that's not a weapon then why was he using it right? These fuckers can't even into their own rules baka. Dindus never learn.
>>331989415
>>331989352
Okay great so you're wrong about the weapons
Now about the lack of witness and the Thrall armour?
>>331989190
>>331989212
>Garrosh did not have a witness.
Yes he fucking did, confirmed for not even playing the game. his whole clan was around him when the challenge was made.
>>331989610
The challenge was made with witnesses at that rock place we had a huge battle in but the duel itself was in the middle of a field with nobody else around.
>>331988405
This.
You guys keep arguing about magic being or not allowed and ignore that Garrosh didn't have a witness and Thrall was wearing armour.
>>331989760
>Garrosh didn't have a witness
Yes he did
all characters which are even remotely interesting get killed of or corrupted
>>331989610
No he didn't. Thrall and Garrosh went off to fight in a field alone. There were no witnesses. Even if there was, you're still ignoring the other rule he broke. He is clearly wearing Doomhammer's plate.
>>331989856
Prove it
And what about the armour
>>331989898
Yes he did, his entire clan was there when the challenge was made, multiple people also witnessed the duel as proof of the dialog with NPC's after the cut scene.
You keep proving you dont play the game/never done the quest
Isn't Thrall a Shaman? why do the elements not count as a witness?
What about the player?
>>331989886
this tbqh
I'm more salty about WoD's Grommash. Like what the actual fucking fuck?
So this guy builds his Iron Horde war machine, commits genocide on anything not in his army, going over Draenor killing everything in his path and then tries to invade our world through the portal.
After they make it 10 meters into our world, we push their shit in and invade their world to free them from his tyranny and end bis bullshit. The only reason we even go to Draenor is to kick his ass.
Then after this joke of an Iron Horde got obliterated by us at every turn with not a single victory to their account, we finally stand before him. We kicked his army in the balls and are ready to bring down the axe on his neck, that's what we came here for and were trying to do for the entire expansion.
And suddenly out of fucking nowhere we're now best friends with him for some reason instead of executing him. What. The. Fuck.
And then there he fights with Yrel side by side and shouts bullshit like "DRAENOR IZ FREE".
WoW's writing was always shit, but come on. I could hire some 12 year old for a fanfic and he'd do better.
>>331990227
We're supposed to like him because Kilrog drank blood and Grom didn't want to
Quality writing
Thrall wore full plate while Garrosh wore his big armoured belt
While the idea of Thrall cheating due to using Shaman powers is a reasonable argument, splitting hairs over armour is not. Its not like Thrall was hiding armour and put it on when he started losing, Garrosh knew he had it on the whole time and presumably didn't raise any contention.
Also it can be presumed that the player and a bunch of player aligned characters that appear after were witnessing for Thrall (Durotan, Draka, Khadgar(?)), whereas the fucktonne of Warsong clan would be witness for Garrosh.
Frankly, who gives a shit about honor? Garrosh was a major opponent and Thrall did the responsible thing by putting him down.
>>331990091
>impyling
the worst part about that isn't that thrall cheated or won but that IT HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE
YOU DO NOT KILL THE MAIN ANTAGONIST IN A CUTSCENE TO SHOW HOW AWSUM YOUR SELF INSERT IS YOU PIECE OF SHIT METZEN
>>331979314
>Garrosh did wrong?
about everything
>"but muh thra-"
thrall is also a piece of shit and I'm kind of happy it bites up his ass now, but since he's metzen self insert, he'll regain all his powers and more to end up a god or a titan
>>331990091
As an addendum to: >>331990594
You still continue to avoid the other rule he broke.
>>331990675
for the good of warcraft thrall, malfurion and sylvanas should all die
>>331980093
This is so fucking wrong on so many levels and is full with pants-on-hat-retarded logic
>>331990675
I'm still surprised they didn't make him the aspect of earth and get him corrupted and cleansed through some dumb storyline after Cataclysm
>>331990790
The original plan was to make him the aspect, but then they went with the "The age of aspects is over." concept instead. Which doesn't make sense because the world was supposed to fall into chaos if an aspect died. i.e. Malygos and Deathwing.
>>331990790
after cataclysm, it was Pandaria, where you see how Garrosh is evil by macro-corrupting the world, destroying sacred places after sacred places to end up on his knee in his own bastion
yes, he had the role of the badass "return of the king" cliché, bonus points for not even killing the bad guy
in wod he's just the young god emperor of mankind
next xpac is about legion, corruption, demon hunting and sargeras (yes corrupted)
he'll probably be corrupted, then we're going to save him and he'll end up being a naaru reincarnation or something
>>331990940
WoW has gotten a Kingdom Hearts tier storyline at this point. So has Starcraft actually.
>>331990594
>bragging about actively playing the worst version of the game in history
Do you have brain damage?
>Getting butthurt over Blizzard lore
>Not realize they change it in a whim to suit their needs
>Sargeras is not lol super evil.
>Titans are dead.
>Azeroth is a titian egg.
>Old Gods are just physical manifestation of the true big bad's farts.
>WOW FUCK YOU RANDOM ORC GUY YOU WERE KILLING INNOCENT ELVES YOU'RE SUCH A CUNT, I SENTENCE YOU TO DEATH
>LMAOOOOOOO BOMB THERAMORE BOMB THERAMORE AHAHAHA
>>331990623
Garrosh should have killed Thrall in this cutscene. This would not only have gotten rid of green jesus (which is LONG overdue) but also hyped the enemies up and rallied the players to fight them. He should then have fucked off into his orc citadel and together with his daddy been the final boss of the expansion.
Like in WotLK where Arthas was omnipresent and built up the entire expansion, people WANTED to go there and they WANTED to fight him. When I'm in HFC, I ask myself "why the fuck am I even here?".
Also, the Iron Horde has not had a single one fucking victory, unless you count burning down villages of women and children before our arrival as victories. They were hyped as the ultimate army, and ended up being a fucking joke nobody could take seriously.
>>331991178
>4 expansions down the line, 2 years from now
>20 years have passed, Thrall is corrupted by demons and old gods and has absorbed Sargeras' essence and become super Sargeras
>We follow Thralls sons on the hunt to cure their dad
>We cure his dad and the universe is saved
The ending follows the Digimon movie ending shot for shot
>Metzen pats himself on the back
I miss when dwarves were fun
>>331991418
>you don't play the game!
>yes, I do, here's proof
>haha, what a retard, he plays the game!
I'm not even that anon, but damn, there's no winning with you guys.
>>331980675
no he didn't, he left him during the worst fucking time possible and fled to be a faggot shaman. You don't give someone the keys to the castle while the fucking thing is burning down and expect them to know what to do, especially when that person is clearly not someone who wants or knows how to be a diplomat
>>331991513
Arthas was a bit TO omnipresent
that said Garrosh should have won but not killed Thrall, he should have left him alive just so he could prove how wrong Thrall was about the orcs
maybe some additional humiliation in the form of him taking the doomhammer with him, maybe saying something along the lines of "a weapon like this should belong to a true warrior"
>>331991513
Arthas popping out of a closet in every zone just to go "ha it's amusing how you ruined my plans, I'll get you next time though" was awful and you should feel bad for pretending to like it.
>>331991752
And you're probably not even talking to the Anon at the start of the comment chain. MadnessBut playing WoW in 2016 is pretty retarded
>>331991461
garrosh was uneven to the end, they didn't know what to make of this character.
one one hand he's a leader who kind of cares for his horde, being suspicious of sylvanas the whole time, showing proofs of honor and a strong leadership suited for a time of war
the next minute, he's the angry baby, doing stupid things just because he can
>>331991946
he had a few good appearances though
something like say Wrathgate simply wouldn't have worked without him present and his heart questline was also a good one
>>331982925
>completely forgetting why he dismissed Krom'gar
Fucking hell, him throwing Krom'gar off the plateau was a great moment. But Blizzard writers are such fucking hacks that they decided murdering innocents for no reason was something he would totally do.
Nothing, in fact the iron horde thing was part of a major of plan about a blackflight dragon planning shit
>>331992073
Multiple people were writing multiple things with his character at the same time without consulting anyone else during Cataclysm. Afrasiabi admitted as much in an interview; he wrote most of Stonetalon's quests without ever checking with anyone else about what their plans were for the rest of the characters and zones until it was too late.
>>331992073
I actually liked tough but firm Garrosh
sure he made mistakes but he should have been making mistakes so he could grow as a character
Garrosh should not have been the villain of WoD, Sylvanas should have been. Maybe he could have been partially responsible for what happened but more in him underestimating how far Sylvanas would go or him being aware of what was going on but couldn't get enough trust to actually stop it.
>>331992030
Why? I recently picked it up with my friend and we're having a pretty fun time, Although I started to level without him and 70-80 was a fucking CHORE.
>>331982925
old god corruption isn't the same as fel corruption.
He shit up the ladder with 45 minute long god damn control warrior games.
>>331979314
>ignore the rules
Lol what rules
>>331992701
Read the thread, fuck face.
>>331992434
>sure he made mistakes but he should have been making mistakes so he could grow as a character
everyone agree on that, especially in MoP where the whole continent revolve around learning, even the emperor made terrible mistakes
>"lol no, his eevil, here, be corrupted by asian shadows"
meanwhile for some reason, sylvanas is still working on her scourge, she's raising valkyrs and wants the blood elves in her pack, thasarian and kol'tira, 2 of the most important death knights don't agree on this and "we're working on this"
>>331992434
>Sylvanas should have been the villain
I agree with you, but she's everybody's waifu, therefore they're never ever writing her as the actual villain that she has been for long now.
>>331990623
This isn't even the first time it happened either. Thrall killed deathwing in a cutscene too.
Doing it once is one thing. But twice? Fuck you Metzen.
>>331992701
Mak'gora means 'Duel of honour' and the rules are as follows
>Each participant is allowed one weapon.
>Body armor is forbidden.
>Each participant must have at least one witness.
>>331993071
>>331992701
And so by that logic, Thrall cheated by using two weapons.
I believe that's his conflict in Legion. The fact he dishonoured himself and the elements, who have turned on him
>>331993071
And none of those rules were broken
>>331993071
I think people are clinging too closely to the rules, we all know Blizzard plays fast and loose with the lore to fit whatever narrative they think the plot needs. The writers needed Thrall to kill Garrosh under dubious circumstances so thats what they did.
>>331993403
>Body armor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AlnE16-2NI
>>331988949
By that logic garrosh punching counts as a weapon because monks exist
The elements are not weapons or eBen regular magic, they're literal sentient beings that the Orcs worship and revere.
It'd be like if instead of betraying jesus, Judas challeged him to a bare knuckle brawl and Gabriel tagged in to finish it
Maybe if garrosh hadn't gone full fucking retard "MY DARK SHAMAN HAVE TORTURED AND CORRUPTED THE ELEMENTS FOR MILES AROUND" they'd have not involved themselves. Blizzard writing is awful, even the worst bad guys don't boast about torture and corruption without being literal demons or unapologetically evil, garrosh can't go full Saturday morning cartoon evil and then claim moral relativism. He didn't give the elements "enhanced interrogation", nigga literally brags about torturing orc equivalent of angels.
Also when thrall and garrosh had their first mak'gora in the Wrath launch thrall used the elements then and nobody had an issue with it during or after the fact
>>331993071
Thrall didnt break a single one of those rules, You have already been BTFO
>>331993403
He used his weapon AND the elements. Two weapons
In Legion this is why he's handing over the Doomhamer cause the elements know he fucked up and used them for dishonourable slaughter
>>331993678
Elements is not a weapon
Theres no rule against using magic
You have already been BTFO, you are just shitposting at this point.
>>331993806
plz get out from under metzen's desk
>>331993071
Honestly, every single instance of Mak'gora in the lore has had different rules. It's barely ever used, and every time it's whatever the particular author felt like because even Blizzard doesn't give a fuck
>>331990940
This, so hard.
It was such a big deal to put a replacement for Malygos. Celebrations, rituals and all that shit. Then when Deathwing died, the guy that could tell land to go fuck itself(which it did), nothing happened and we're just to assume Thrall got the powers just like that. As if Deathwings powers were an ordinary loot piece.
>>331993806
Tell that to Blizzard's writing staff who are WRITING IT INTO LEGION AS BEING CHEATING
>>331993861
>Shitpost as damage control after getting utterly BTFO
>>331993505
no use.. this >>331993071 retard has been ignoring this fact the whole thread.
>>331992468
>Why?
Its braindead and boring as fuck.
No challenge in leveling at all other than keeping yourself from falling asleep. Blizzard recognized that the current 1-100 slog is awful, and instead of taking any measures to fix it and make it better they charge people 60 fucking dollars to just skip it all.
And when you do hit level cap there is fuck all to do given we have less end-game dungeons and raids than ever before, and leveling professions is totally pointless from a practical standpoint other than getting rich off of retards so you can buy more WoW tokens and have a never ending subscription to a mindless skinner box of a game.
>>331993806
>>331993505
Tell me again why is that not considered as body armor...?
>>331994065
Literally false, elementals have abandon him because he killed Garrosh.
Even has a line which he literally says that.
Feel free to stop shitposting any time.
Isn't Mak-whatever non-lethal?
What right did Thrall have to kill Garrosh? Also, there's no way the elements were legal. If they were, Garrosh never would have fought Thrall who is clearly OP in the cinematic.
>>331993806
The elements aren't magic either, they are literal beings who are revered by shamans.
>>331994138
This is some "I was only pretending to be retarded" levels of dumb.
The Elements count as a weapon. Just as Magic counts as a weapon.
The elements are also a second party meaning he used more than one 'persons' power to fuck Garrosh up.
>>331994256
Because Blizzard isnt going to make a new model for a short cuscene
>>331994269
Thrall cheated, this has already been established.
In Legion Thrall is going to lose his shaman powers because the Elements think he is an honorless coward.
>>331994267
You are now aware that he killed Garrosh in Mak'gora using elemental powers to crush him.
>>331994350
Elementals and magic is not a weapon, by that retarded logic Garrosh cheated because he was punching and kicking.
>>331993806
you have been getting K.O'd the whole thread, you are just to fucking stupid to realize it. just give it a rest..
>>331994437
You are now aware using magic is NOT against the rules of Mak'gora
>>331992468
>70-80 was a fucking CHORE
This is how you know a game is shit. When you're no longer getting constant gratification of seeing numbers go up fast, you're left with just the game itself, and you're not having fun actually playing it.
>>331994369
Are you for real now, anon? Are you really going to use that as an argument? The fucking model?
>>331994487
Do you deny then that the elementals giving Thrall power that isn't his own is totally fair in a fight of honor? Where you fight with your own power?
:)
>>331994545
You have been BTFO repeatedly, just stop, you are embarrassing yourself.
>>331994707
You have been literally owned nonstop throughout this whole thread, just end your posting shenanigans. You are only making yourself look bad.
>>331994430
>In Legion Thrall is going to lose his shaman powers because the Elements think he is an honorless coward.
Is that canon? How do we know this?
>>331994635
Show me the the rule where it says magic is not allowed.
Ill wait....
>>331994814
Its confirmed with the leaked dialogue that Thrall says during the Doomhammer Shaman quest
Its on MMO-Champion
If magic ISN'T a weapon and Garrosh knew Thrall was free to use it, why would he even accept the challenge?
Thrall is like a superhero.
>>331980093
>Bartered with the Night Elves for wood
AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
This shit is beyond wrong in every sentence.
>People trying to claim Thrall didn't cheat
>The fucking Doomhammer questline is the elements abandoned him for cheating
God damn there are some stupid people here
>>331994870
You're avoiding my question.
You very well may be right about magic being allowed, I'll admit defeat there, however you didn't say if its fair for an outside party to lend someone their strength during a 1v1 fight.
>>331994793
>Shitposting this hard because you got utterly BTFO
>>331994963
Ah, thank you.
>all these wrathbabbys whom didn't see the pre-WotLK event where Garrosh already challenged Thrall to Mak'gora and was kicking his ass until the Scourge showed up and invaded Orgrimmar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2vK2WFWTMU
Garrosh would have won if thrall didn't use cheat codes for the second fight.
>>331994870
Blessings from the elements are not magic. They are literally the interference from a third party.
>>331994814
It's mentioned in the Shaman's artifact quest line and is what leads to Thrall giving Doomhammer to the Enhancement Shaman. He says something about the hammer "Feeling cold and lifeless in his hand." Which doesn't make any fuck sense because of course it would and does, it's a hammer. It never had innate shamanistic/magic power, but whatever.
>>331995046
He cheated so hard the elements on 2 different planets that are in separate timelines abandoned his ass.
>>331995090
you may have won the game of /v/ but I have won the game of life, nerd
>"GRRRAAAAA FUCK DEMONS AND WHAT THEY DID TO MY PEOPLE"
>"This dead Old God heart is fair game though."
>"I will go back in time and warn my people about the demons."
>"Oh, and I'll make them build an army to attack the people who stopped me. And the Draenei, again."
Garrosh was a moron.
>>331995271
>demons and old gods are the same thing
No, anon. Old gods are the closest things we have to Void Lords from the Void.
Demons are from the Twisting Nether.
>>331995213
Its that or elements are like demons and are the same being for every dimension.
Which is incredibly retarded but doesn't change the fact that they all decided Thrall's a fag.
>>331994606
Now that I'm 80 and leveling seems fair again, I do get satisfaction out of leveling and getting to 80 was a bigger accomplishment than any other level.
>>331995184
>Casting spells is not magic
>>331995271
>Garrosh was a moron.
>opens up a whole alternate reality to stop orcs from drinking mannoroth's evil juice
>they do it anyway
I don't really understand Garrosh's motivation anyway. The AU Draenor doesn't rewrite the past so what did he actually want? More orcs?
>>331995271
>And the Draenei, again
This always irked me about Warlords, even before it turned out to be shit.
Why were the Horde doing fighting the Draenei when they knew that demons were out there, and demons manipulated them into that fight.
Even if Thrall gets a comeuppance, making it take over a year for it to become apparent seems like a shitty move by Blizzard.
>>331995656
>Garrosh's motivation anyway
Its simple.
Metzen got really pissed people like Garrosh more than Thrall so he shit on him. DOn't forge this all started in the middle of the jack off Thrall segment where we was going full green Jesus.
>>331995632
They are not spells.
>>331995436
They're not exactly the same thing, but they're both evil creatures that subjugate people and wish to destroy/fuck up Azeroth.
The only thing stopping Garrosh from being an Old God cum slut was the writers going "he's still in control!"
>>331995983
>Metzen got really pissed people like Garrosh more than Thrall
What are you talking about?
The Blizz forums were nuts with 'nut muh green human' during Cataclysm.
Nobody liked Garry until after the fact.
>>331994138
I wasn't even the same person you were quoting, you just love you some green jesus
>>331994369
Holy shit the mental gymnastic are real. He's clearly wearing Doomhammer's plate, minus the pauldrons. Armor is forbidden in Mak'gora.
>>331995656
Orcs are naturally evil scumbags. Daelin was right.
>>331994594
Then why would the elements punish him for using magic in Mak'gora?
>>331996437
>Daelin
Now that's a proper tragic case. Being killed by your own daughter because "they is good boys, they didndu nuffin" and ending up being proven so fucking right it ain't funny.
>>331996449
Elemental magic is vastly different than Mage magic.
>His armor wasn't against the rules
Prepared to accept this because Garrosh chose to engage him anyway.
>Using the elements isn't against the rules.
Don't agree, I don't think Garrosh would have engaged him but giving it the benefit of the doubt.
>Killing was against the rules
I think this is the main point. The elements are abandoning Thrall because regardless of Mak'gora, Thrall should not have killed Garrosh.
>>331995046
They didn't abandon him for cheating.
They abandoned him for using the elements anger.
You can't use the elements in rage or you gon get put in time out.
>>331996706
Killing in Mak'gora was only against the rules when Thrall was warchief. Garrosh was warchief.
His armor was against the rules, and if we want to argue magic/elements are a weapon, he used two weapons so that's also another rule breaker.
>>331995140
>Thrall uses magic there
>No one gives a fuck
>Thrall uses magic to kill Garrosh in WoD
>GEE THRALL, WHY DOES BLIZZARD LET YOU USE TWO WEAPONS?They also both had armor
>>331995983
Kind of. Public perception of Garrosh got a lot better during Cata, while Thrall's fell. Then Gary became a supervillain in MoP while Thrall didn't do much aside from jobbing during the final fight and making Vol'jin the new boss.
>>331997416
It was still cheating then, no dispute. And they both had armor. It just shows how little Blizzard gives a shit about their own lore, and are willing to toss any of it out the window to fit whatever narrative they want to write currently.
>>331995187
It's stupidly written and I think just a really shitty attempt for a metaphor.
>>331995983
Everyone hated Garrosh, Horde and Alliance. The only people that like him are the contrarians on /v/.
The Stonetalon ending was the only time he did something that could've made people like him, but it was so out of place for him since it wasn't really ever mentioned after that, and he never acted that way again.
>>331997812
I hate how much of a wasted character Garrosh was. Made him just go down a similar path as Grrommash, rather than being his own character.
>>331997812
He was also the only character willing to tell Sylvanas to stop being an asshole.
Now she's Warchief and trying to corrupt Titan stuff, and only Genn "Make Gilneas Great Again" Greymane is going after her. Horde players help her because durrrrrrrr
>>331998419
Who knows, if we're lucky they might finally off her in this expansion.Who am I kidding, they don't want to hurt the closet necrophiliacs.
>>331998419
The moral of the story is that Blizzard can't do storytelling if it leapt up and bit 'em in the face.
The WoW Chronicles book has been out for week now, can anyone summarize all the shit they've ruined?
He did nothing wrong until Blizzard gave in to the retards on the forums who didn't like a warmongering Orc as Warchief, then he became a childkilling faggot.
>>331997972
Which really doesn't even make sense considering how much time he spent at Garadar just sitting at the bonfire crying like a little bitch because he thought Grommash doomed the Orcs that crossed the portal. He gets his spirits uplifted and basically starts turning into Grommash 2.0 where Might is Right but Thrall thinks it's a better idea to go fuck off with the elements shit and thrust him into a position he's woefully unprepared for. Everything beyond that is just a downward spiral of taking every wrong lesson from Orc history and going full Orc Pride Worldwide.
If Sargereas is trying to take the Azeroth world-soul and awaken the dormant titan to kill the void lords, shouldn't we be working with Sargeras and the burning legion?
>>332000113
No because he wants to wipe out all life(including ours) because he believes if he does he can restart the universe minus demons/evil.
>>331990675
Nah, Thrall isn't going to be the titan, Sylvanas is.
They're just gonna pull a Kerrigan all over again, with Elune,who now turns out to be an apparition of Azeroth's titan soul,giving all her powers to Sylvanas so she can destroy the Void Gods.
>>332000113
If his main goal is taking out Azeroth, why didn't he do that from the start instead of fucking around with places like Argus?
>>332000349
>>332000436
He's trying to prevent the birth of any more titans, which means destroying and regulating all life.
>>331997585
>>331997416
>thrall cheats in mak'gora
>entire point of Warlords of draenor was "here's some filler while we finish up the next expansion"
>announced that players get the Doomhammer as a weapon
>people still complaining about thrall cheating
>datamining shows that thrall got the shaman equivalent of erectile dysfunction immediately after cheating
>people still complain about thrall cheating
>Legion's starter storyline is that thrall is no longer able to cast magic because he cheated and the doomhammer hates him
>people still complain about thrall cheating
>>332000610
![New Picture_thumb[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Ch8ubs2.jpg "New Picture_thumb[2].jpg")
>>331980895
>the writers were just trying to make him the "bad guy"
>so they had him blow up that city and be completely fucking retarded
This is pretty much the bottom line. He was fine until the writers started with this whole bullshit for overkill
>>332000113
He doesn't want to awaken the dorman titan, he wants to destroy it because at the end of the day, he's still fucking crazy, even if he believes he's doing the right thing.
>>332000436
He doesn't want to destroy Azeroth. He wants to get there before the void lords devour it like they did to the ethereal homeworld, and awaken the extremely powerful titan that lives in it so that he can remake the universe under his and the burning legions protection.
>>332000436
He's tried to get to Azeroth several times. He's been cock-blocked every time.
>>332000113
He's the definition of chaotic good.
Doing the 'right thing' even if it means eradicating billions of lives
>>332001487
The road to evil is paved with good intentions, etc.
You shouldn't try to bring D&D morality into this, because using that system, there is absolutely no way he could be categorized as good in any way.
>>332001487
he's just trying to make the universe great again.
Our glorious Queen Azshara did nothing wrong.
>>332000730
is this new lore for legion?
>>332002356
Yeah, they're releasing a new book that explains/retcons a lot of shit.
>>332002356
It is. New Chronicle book series coming out to retcon the living shit out of the universe, so they can justify all the dumb that will transpire in legion.
>>332001914
>nightmilfs
Stop.
It makes my dick go hard.
>>332002528
To be fair, it fixes a lot of shit despite completely ruining old god and naaru lore.
>>332002528
Warcraft lore pre-cataclysm is so complex at this point it needed a reboot for anything to make sense. I once tried to explain the lore to a friend of a mine and he described it as more convoluted and disjointed than FF7 and MGS put together.
>>332002638
What they did with Sargeras feels half-assed though. To me, it seems like they're doing that change simply so we can fight him as a boss without it being the end of the game.
>>332002930
This always happens when more than one author writers something, and with these big franchises blizzard shuffles through faggots yearly.
Just look at the emerald dream and how many different purposes it's served, the amount of times Sargares has had a retooled purpose. The list goes on.
>>332002991
I'm not saying it isn't cheap as fuck, in fact it's litterally a re-use of the abomination they used in Starcraft which in turn was inspired by Sarg and Illidan.
Blizzard is incredibly lazy, but as bad as it is it still isn't as shitty has any of the prior reasons for his "corruption"
>>332002930
This isn't a bad thing though. It means Warcraft was a large universe will many different things happening in it.
Not everything needs to be fucking connected.
>>332001914
10/10 would worship
>>331989898
Clearly these 7 people did not watch two dindus go full retard
>>332001914
Being that hot is plain wrong. It hurts the D.
>>332003332
Thrall had witnesses to support him, but Garrosh had none.
>>331993071
>allows his opponent to wear body armor
>doesn't have a witness for himself
>still agrees to the Mak'gora
Garrosh has no one to blame but himself.
>>331982925
>it was how he decided to hunt down the civilians afterwords
Wait, what? Wasn't the entire battleplan for Theramore "throw useless trolls, undead, and blood elves into a ground invasion to force a citizen evacuation of Theramore so only the high ranking military targets like Jaina and her Kirin Tor fuckbuddies remain"? Making Theramore a totally legitimate military target?
I never saw the part about hunting civilians, that was literally the one thing I had going in Garrosh's defense whenever it came up.
>>332002565
>dat pick
lolis shouldn't look this fuckable
I didn't really keep up with MoP and WoD lore, how the h*ck did Garrosh turn out completely okay and sane after infusing himself with an Old God?
>>332003247
He's not talking about the connectivity, a lot of WoW lores inconsistencies is a result of people having different ideas about things Metzen and friends never expanded upon.
I'll give you some examples.
Magic, specifically arcane was inherently demonic in old WoW lore. If magic was a beer, arcane was the foam and fel was the actual beer.
All this shit about arcane being corrupting was written up and shit about Dalaran having demon issues was prominent in the lore.
Then BC comes around and decides Arcane isn't a subset of fel and instead white reality-fucking stuff.
Now Arcane and fel are two different sides of the same coin, and arcane no longer makes you tread on the path of becoming a demon.
Or look at shamans, shamans used to get powers from 4 universal elemental spirits. Elementals weren't related, they were chaotic manifestations of the old gods banished to another plane.
Now there are no "4 elemental spirits", there are many, and elementals are the ancient spirits of the world.
It's very easy to see the different directions the lore takes based on what the writers like. For example, everything Richard Knaak creates in his shit lore books reeks of generic DND cocksucking. He doesn't like the steam punk or the magic-science, he wants night elves to have classic invisible sky deities and some old mysticism in the game. This, if you're wondering, is why the Dragon Flights have always failed to work well in the game and sound retarded (try validating a time traveling dragonflight, you can't).
>>332004113
Garrosh was strong as fuck, and was likely the strongest living warrior on the planet. He was so strong he could overcome old god corruption.
>>332003751
There were camps right outside Theramore where they had civilians nailed to boards for target practice
Why does she leave the Kirin Tor?
>>332004397
Probably because the Kirin Tor want to stay neutral, and she wants to get rid of the Horde.
>>331979314
>Please explain what Garrosh did wrong?
>decided to be an antagonist in a world where immortal unstoppable adventurers run around killing absolutely everything
>get your ass kicked
>get transported to a completely new world where you will fit in perfectly and nobody can follow you
>decide to use this second chance to attempt to reconquer the world you just escaped from
>your army is absolutely annihilated by the immortal unstoppable adventurers
>get killed by a big green dickhead
Where the Lich King failed, this guy thought he could succeed.
He was too stupid to live.
He grew up hearing stories of his father but never had a chance to meet the guy.
Then there was Blizzard's flanderization of the Horde and Garrosh; I mean let's face it outside the Undead you could practically put every Horde race in the Alliance and nothing would change.
Garrosh is more akin to the days of the old Orcish Horde.
>>332004120
The burning legion transcends time, so a dragon flight that could combat that trait was created.
>>332000730
>Eventually, the spirits reached Azeroth, slamming into the keepers that the Pantheon had assigned to watch over Azeroth. For a brief moment, each of the keepers were overwhelmed by an influx of fragmented memories. Puzzled by this they called out to the Pantheon for answers, but never recieved a reply.
This is what Scientologists actually believe.
>>332005058
>I mean let's face it outside the Undead you could practically put every Horde race in the Alliance and nothing would change.
>Lor'themar almost joined the Alliance but Jaina had to go genocide the Elves at DalaranShould've kept going. Fucking dismantle the Horde.
>>332005174
>Burning legion transcendes time
That is still ambigous, the wikis avoid it and WoW Chronicles doesn't seem to mention it.
That aside, the reason for the time dragons is because Old Gods can fuck with time, something Knaak thought of.
His real goal was to establish more DND elements. I'm sure he hated the idea that his dragons were empowered by Titans and not gods of creation like so many other settings.
You all know the reason why Garrosh was written the way he was, right? It's because Blizzard had to find an excuse to keep the war between the Alliance and the Horde going. Reasons for the two factions warring were running out.
Frankly, I would have preferred to see a game where the war did end and everyone could play with eachother. I'm not saying PvP should end. Battlegrounds and arenas could be simply for sport and nothing else.
World PvP could function very differently, where anyone can kill anyone, with some risk/reward involved. Not sure what the reward should be, simply gold seems boring, but the risk could be that killing other players would put a bounty on your head for other players to collect. Optimally, ganking low level players would give you no reward but all the risk.
>>331989946
He was only wearing armor because Blizzard was to lazy to make a new Thrall model without just doomhammer and some pants.
>>331979314
GARROSH IS MAH NIGGA
>>332005914
>World PvP could function very differently, where anyone can kill anyone, with some risk/reward involved. Not sure what the reward should be, simply gold seems boring, but the risk could be that killing other players would put a bounty on your head for other players to collect. Optimally, ganking low level players would give you no reward but all the risk.
This was present to a degree when the game first launched actually.
>>332008462
The closest thing I can remember was the dishonor system, and that was only for killing civilian NPCs, not players.
>>332005914
But then they wouldn't be able to get $30 for faction changes.
>>332009281
Humans still reign supreme for PvP. They'll get the faction changes one way or another.
>>331979314
pulled out too soon
>>332009475
Every Man for Himself will only remove stuns in Legion.
But since PvP trinket is phased out and changed into a PvP talent instead, it doesn't really matter that much.
>>332009476
Jaina's a sloot but Garrosh would literally fuck her to death.
>>332003896
>shitskin
>fuckable
Degenerate filth.
>>332005045
>That pic
Every time
>rebuild Orgrimmar from the ground up, conquer territories and secure resources for your people
>literally crucify your citizens in the process
>>332005742
I don't see why this is a bad thing. D&D is popular for a reason.
>>332013546
Because it doesn't work in a setting that was already ripping off warhammer.
>>331999058
he literally comissioned his engineers to build an a-bomb even before they actually released the expansion that introduced him as warchief
>>332013823
two A-bombs
One was used by a general to wipe out a night elf encampment
Garrosh threw him off a cliff for not being an honorable fighter. MUH SHAMANISTIC RACE.
this was stupid so it was later retconed to be Garrosh was upset he wasted the bomb on an army instead of a fortified city and didn't even ask for permission
>>332013763
Seems to be working fine.
>>332014730
>Working
At this point elune has been beaten into a corner, no longer some sort of magic sky elf she is heavily implied to be Azeroth's world soul. The night elves in turn are now mutant trolls, something Knaak never intended.
In the infancey of night elf lore other night elf deities (not the ancients) were mentioned, even showing up at the end of the WoA books as towering silhouettes.
In short, the night elf pantheon and all the implications of their dieities has long sense been retconned with the exception of Elune, who is now no longer a "god".
Most of the "high fantasy" elements of night elves and other concepts knaak tried to force have been ignored.
It didn't work, and has sense been retconned.
Dragons in their own way have been retconned, blizzard stamped out or altered their purposes along the way and rid them of their powers.
If you go back and look at their lore they are one of the worse things written in WoW, too bad for blizzard even.
