What are some good Roguelikes worth trying now that the Steam Sale is imminent?
Other than obvious shit like Binding of Isaac and Rogue Legacy
(yes I know they're not TRUE Roguelikes, I'm mainly looking for stuff that's randomly generated and has permadeath)
bunp
>>321036895
This is something I've been wondering as well. Roguelikes have been a favorite genre of mine since I played Binding of Isaac for the first time.
I just got back into Darkest Dungeon recently.
I'm looking at Nuclear Throne, Dungeon of the Endless, Invisible Inc., Necrodancer, and Hand of Fate (I think this is a roguelike?).
Roguelikes are just great to pick up and play without too much time dedication. If I can start up a game on my laptop and make progress within less than and hour, that's awesome.
God damn it please just call it anything but roguelike. Roguelikes have:
>randomly generated content
>permadeath
>turn based combat
>grid based movement.
There's more to it but these are the bare minimum. Use this as a checklist for the next time you decide to use the word.
>>321037701
Definitions evolve with time, friend. The original definition of roguelike is fucking dead. Can't do much about it now.
>>321037701
The thing is, there just isn't a word for this genre that everyone can agree on. By now, most casuals just call them Roguelikes and even people who know they aren't Roguelikes just call them that because it's easier.
I'd call them "Roguelike-lites" but even that tends to confuse people.
Wish some big name developer would come up with a new term for them that basically just means "Game with randomly generated elements as a core part of the gameplay and permadeath" so it can be distinguished from the games that are actually, you know, 'like Rogue'.
>>321038002
Just put the word in quotes, then everyone will know you're not talking about shit like Nethack or DCSS.
>What are some good "roguelikes" worth trying now that the Steam Sale is imminent?
>>321036895
>What are some good Roguelikes worth trying now that the Steam Sale is imminent?
Crypt of the necro dancer
Dont starve
not sure what else
>>321037471
>Roguelikes have been a favorite genre of mine since I played Binding of Isaac for the first time.
Well that's a shame, because you've never played a rougelike.
Jesus christ, go play something simple, like fucking DoomRL, then come back and beg to suck my dick for introducing you to something even vaguely close to an actual fucking rougelike.
>>321037959
>>321038002
It's just that I love real roguelikes and just a few years ago nobody had heard of them. Then people started having discussions about them and every fucking time the discussion was about something else entirely.
I guess I'm just a relic now but it's so frustrating having casuals hijack my favourite genre.
>>321037701
how about we call them autism triggers
>>321037701
How about we call these games "roguelikes," and we call the games you like to play "autismlikes"
Now everyone can be happy
Diablo 2 LoD.
It's randomly generated, and has permadeath.
>>321038302
>>321038319
I'm sure this is how you would react if it was one of your favourite genres whatever that may be.
For example:
>Suddenly all new "RPGs" are shooters in which you can level up in with no other RPG elements
>>321038210
It's really sad just how butchered the genre is. Pretending something like Nethack is in a similar category to something like fucking Binding of Isaac makes me want to throw up.
The new generation of rougelites have removed anything resembling skill from the genre in favor of basic pick up and play gameplay with all the depth of a fucking puddle.
They're lazy imitations designed to mask a total lack of content behind "hard" difficulty and "permadeath". What used to be a learning experience is now "play the game to unlock more stuff", and tactical turn based gameplay where every action had to be carefully thought out in an encounter has been replaced with real time simplicity.
>>321038469
>I'm sure this is how you would react if it was one of your favourite genres whatever that may be.
Except no, it isn't
>if this game doesn't exactly fit my personal autistic definition of the genre, then it might as well be like calling COD an RPG
Arguing with Roguelike purists/autists is like arguing with Dotards
>>321038469
>For example:
>Suddenly all new "RPGs" are shooters in which you can level up in with no other RPG elements
So Fallout 4? Because that is a thing now
>>321038553
>Pretending something like Nethack is in a similar category to something like fucking Binding of Isaac makes me want to throw up.
Seek help anon, your crippling autism surely can't be good for you
>>321038553
I enjoy many of the new "roguelikes" but as you say, they shouldn't be put in the same category as they are completely different types of games.
>>321038571
>>if this game doesn't exactly fit my personal autistic definition of the genre, then it might as well be like calling COD an RPG
Except if you were even the slightest bit knowledgeable about roguelikes and the modern "roguelikes" you would know that the difference is massive
>>321038170
Looks like someone's upset.
>>321038830
>Except if you were even the slightest bit knowledgeable about roguelikes and the modern "roguelikes" you would know that the difference is massive
The difference is literally just that one is turn-based and the other isn't
And the "if you disagree with me then you don't know what you're talking about" argument lifted right from the top of the Dotard talking point list is noted
One way heroics (plus) is a really solid fairly traditional roguelike that can be played pretty fast on steam.
Spelunky is a really good roguelite or like or whatever, free version is on the internet if you want to try it but be warned if you play the original you'll be disappointed with with the music.
Dungeons of Dredmore is a roguelike on steam but I don't enjoy it so don't fall for it.
ADOM is a classic roguelike that recently got a steam release.
>>321038635
When someone says "JRPG", it's obvious what you expect. Turn based, story driven gameplay. You wouldn't say Dark Souls is a JRPG, despite it being an RPG, and made in Japan.
It's the same deal with rougelikes. These games are just misusing the term to mean something completely unrelated.
I know you're too young to remember when FPS games were all called Doom clones. Because games like Hexen and Duke 3D were similar. The term FPS came about because people were able to recognise games as being very different, even if they shared some of the concepts of Doom, like having guns and being in first person.
The misuse of the term Rougelike is even worse. If you don't have any grid based movement, you literally should not be able to call your game a Rougelike. It's nothing like Rouge at that point. "Permadeath" and random dungeons doesn't make your game a fucking rougelike.
>>321039004
>When someone says "JRPG", it's obvious what you expect. Turn based, story driven gameplay. You wouldn't say Dark Souls is a JRPG, despite it being an RPG, and made in Japan.
Except yeah, some people do call it that, and no one cares
It's more like claiming that Diablo or Divine Divinity aren't RPGs because they're not turn-based
>>321039004
get over it lmao
>>321039004
>You wouldn't say Dark Souls is a JRPG, despite it being an RPG, and made in Japan.
Yes, I would. That's the only criteria for being a JRPG.
1. An RPG.
2. Made in Japan.
It doesn't matter what style of RPG is more common or whatever. The reason it is a JRPG is because it's made in Japan.
If you want to describe the game as turn-based, then call it fucking turn-based.
>>321038931
>And the "if you disagree with me then you don't know what you're talking about" argument lifted right from the top of the Dotard talking point list is noted
I didn't say that for you to disagree with me must imply that you don't know shit, what I meant was that you obviously don't know anything about the difference because otherwise you wouldn't make a stupid statement like:
>The difference is literally just that one is turn-based and the other isn't
This is like saying the ONLY difference between JRPGs and WRPGs is:
>The difference is literally just that one is turn-based and the other isn't
>>321039227
>This is like saying the ONLY difference between JRPGs and WRPGs is:
>The difference is literally just that one is turn-based and the other isn't
Actually the difference is that one is made in the West and one is made in Japan
>>321039075
We've had RPGs that weren't turn-based for almost as long as we've had RPGs. There was, what, a year or two when games like Wizardry were all the rage?
>>321039205
The term JRPG was born to mean a specific style of game, you underage cunt. Not "RPGs made in Japan".
>>321039227
Except no one says that about JRPGs and WRPGs because being a JRPG doesn't necessitate turn-based combat.
You wouldn't call a western-made RPG a JRPG because it had turn-based, story driven gameplay. People only say Dark Souls is a WRPG because they're westerners that want to put foreign media into a box.
>>321039326
THEN WHY THE FUCK IS THE ACRONYM STANDING FOR JAPANESE ROLEPLAYING GAME? Shut the fuck up, you fucking autist.
>>321039326
>We've had RPGs that weren't turn-based for almost as long as we've had RPGs.
And since "Roguelikes" are merely a sub-genre of RPG, this means that there can indeed be RLs that aren't turn-based
Glad we had this little discussion
>>321039283
Let me quote >>321039326
>The term JRPG was born to mean a specific style of game, you underage cunt. Not "RPGs made in Japan".
>>321038170
You know what anon I don't think I've ever played a Rouge-like either
>>321039384
>>THEN WHY THE FUCK IS THE ACRONYM STANDING FOR JAPANESE ROLEPLAYING GAME?
Because you're underage, and don't understand the history behind the fucking term.
>>321039427
I think you need to redraw your Venn diagrams, little buddy. All rougelikes are RPGs, but not all RPGs are rougelikes.
Can we stop arguing over what defines a genre like damn it isn't that much of an issue, arguing with another anon over the internet won't make everyone start seeing things your way
Can we just get "Roguelike" (not turn based or grid based) recommendations?
>>321039326
Yeah, Japanese roleplaying games aren't Japanese roleplaying games. Clearly we meant "turn based games designed in a very specific way that are absolutely not exclusively made in Japan.
Fuck off you paint drinking fucknut.
>>321039535
>Can we stop arguing over what defines a genre like damn it isn't that much of an issue
The autists from /rlg/ literally refuse to discuss games that they don't like, so it's important to remind them about it
>>321039535
Cawadoody isn't a Doom clone because it's clearly made lots of changes to the formula. It falls under the wider umbrella of FPS games.
BoI isn't a Rougelike because it's clearly made lots of changes to the formula. Call it whatever the fuck you like, just don't use terms that don't make sense.
>>321039604
I'm very sorry that you don't understand how the term came to be, but how is that my problem? In the information age we live in, you can very quickly correct any misunderstandings yourself with Google.
>>321039535
>Making a categorical error isn't an issue
>Having an entire generation of gaming making the same error isn't an issue
Let me give you an example when it's an issue:
>10 years from now
>Person A wants to play a real roguelike
>Googles roguelike recommendations
>Find nothing of the genre he was looking for
It will become impossible to tell the difference even though the difference in gameplay is huge, that's the issue.
>>321036895
So you aren't looking for rogue-likes at all. There are plenty of other shooters, action-adventure and platformers that you can try, just stop searching in a genre that contains nothing you are looking for.
>>321036895
They're roguelites
>>321039428
You're not even presenting an argument for why that is true.
You're just saying it is because you say it is. Nothing about the acronym implies turn-based combat. You are inferring that through literally not evidence at all whatsoever.
I've seen this argument dozens of times before. There is no evidence for why all JRPGs have to be what you say they are.
>>321039530
>Because you're underage, and don't understand the history behind the fucking term.
I'm well aware of the history of Japanese games, faggot. Just because Japanese roleplay games had a high percentage of turn-based games in the past doesn't make all JRPGs turn-based. It is a turn-based RPG made by a Japanese developer.
You lack of skill in the art of argumentation is laughably pathetic.
>>321039716
>BoI isn't a Rougelike because it's clearly made lots of changes to the formula.
The only real change was being not-turn-based
>all these kids crying over being told they shouldn't use the wrong names to describe things
MOMMY MOMMY GO PICK ME UP THE NEW NINTENDO PLAYSTATION ALREADY
>>321036895
YOU SHOULD TOTALLY PLAY DIABLO III! BESTEST ROUGELIKE EVA!
>>321039535
I'll call it whatever I want you fucking double nigger.
>>321039778
>No hunger system
>No ID system
>>321037471
You should play a Rogue-like instead, much better games.
>>321039806
>>321039826
You are really fucking upset, man.
Go have a snack, play some vidya, and calm down.
>>321039862
>No ID system
Pills and cards?
>>321039778
And, you know, not actually having anything close to permadeath due to the saved progression of items. You can't actually beat BoI in one life, you have to finish a bunch of sub-objectives first until the final level is unlocked.
Not being turn-based or grid-based alone already makes it not a rougelike. It's not some catch-all term for games with random dungeons.
>>321039778
I think you mean
>Not turn based
>Not grid based
>Not an RPG and all that entails
>Not actual permadeath as you progress through your death
>Shitload of other things
And the things it implies change a lot. The difference between how you play a turnbased game and a realtime game is huge, the turnbased game is more tactical while the realtime one is reactive.
Can't you faggots just call them procedural death labyrinths, or PDLs for short, already?
Comparing these games to Rouge is an insult, even if you use shit like Rougelite.
>>321039902
But Diablo is just as much a Rogue-like as Binding of Isaac and Rogue Legacy.
What is your problem with that suggestion?
>>321039731
Jesus christ you guys will never be satisfied.
I've already said several times that I know those games aren't Roguelikes by definition.
But you KNOW exactly what kinds of games I'm looking for, you're just being a smartass about it.
"Roguelike-like" "Roguelite" "Roguelike-lite" "Very specific description that appeases the Roguelike autists"
Whatever you want me to call them.
>>321039942
>And, you know, not actually having anything close to permadeath due to the saved progression of items. You can't actually beat BoI in one life, you have to finish a bunch of sub-objectives first until the final level is unlocked.
None of that has any bearing on the definition of "permadeath"
Permadeath means "you die, start a new character"
TOME has unlockable stuff too and it's a roguelike
>>321040035
>Can't you faggots just call them procedural death labyrinths, or PDLs for short, already?
Or we can just call them Roguelikes, because that's what they are
>>321040045
Diablo isn't anything like either of those games. Actually, each of those games is very different from one another.
Stop shitposting to make yourself feel better.
>>321040127
Good argument
>They're called roguelikes
>No that's what they're called
>>321038002
>I'd call them "Roguelike-lites" but even that tends to confuse people.
People usually call them roguelites.
>>321040058
>Jesus christ you guys will never be satisfied.
I thought the terms were pretty clear, just stop calling your piss easy baby games Rougelikes.
>>321040127
They don't meet half of the definitions for a Roguelike. If my FPS game has RPG elements, at best it's a hybrid.
>>321040058
>Whatever you want me to call them.
Anything but Rogue-likes becaus they are not like Rogue. Try starting a topic that doesn't say something fucking retarded if you want actual replies.
If you're so great, tell me what a roguelike is!
>>321040058
You could Try Dungeon of The Endless if you haven't already done so. It has some rogue-likeish elements to it and is pretty fun.
>>321040171
>Actually, each of those games is very different from one another.
Do you understand why it might be silly to use the wrong terms to describe games yet?
>>321040241
http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation
>>321040171
But it has random generation and permadeath so fits all the requirements. It's exactly as much a "Rogue-like" as them and fits all the requirements set forth by OP.
>>321040236
>if you want actual replies
>my thread already has a lot of replies
Also I included the fact that I know they're not actual Roguelikes in OP if you can read.
>>321039896
epic
>>321036895
There is Ziggurat, but stay away from it, very low weapon and item variety, all guns hit like a pillow and feel like shit, all games feels just like the same.
>this game from 1980 is turn-based, therefore every game must be turn-based to be like it
>ctrl-f "rouge"
>>321039004
>>321039475
>>321038170
>>321038553
>>321039530
>>321039716
>>321039826
>>321039942
>>321040035
For being autistic, you faggots sure are stupid.
>>321040285
I thought you'd try to use that against me. My God, you're more predictable than a autistic child using colored building blocks.
Even actual roguelikes vary from one another. Comparing apples to oranges isn't really helping your argument.
To be fair, I never said that the original definition of roguelike was wrong. I just said that you should get over the fact that language and terminology changes over time.
>>321040327
Isn't permadeath only on a certain difficulty of something?
>>321040316
So according to this, Binding of Isaac is indeed a roguelike
Cool, guess that settles that then!
>>321040380
>know they're not actual Roguelikes in OP if you can read.
So don't even call them that to begin with you double nigger, just ask for games like FaggotNotRougelike#67 instead of being a cunt.
>>321040420
If you're calling your game "Roguelike", wouldn't you expect it to be "like Rogue"?
Can you guys just admit the definition of a roguelike is arbitrary as fuck? Elona is considered a true roguelike in spite of the default build not having permadeath while plus has it as an option at character creation because it uses the traditional grid based system, yet at the same time people will contest the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games being roguelikes because of the lack of permadeath.
>>321040420
>This popular game some strongly definining characteristics
>It's just like this other game, that lacks all of the aforementioned strongly defining characteristics
>>321036895
Caves of Qud is pretty good, prolly the only decent Roguelike on steam
>>321040241
A game like Rogue. Fuck faggots like >>321040316 who are the reason faggots like you and OP exist in the first place.
>>321040483
>If you're calling your game "Roguelike", wouldn't you expect it to be "like Rogue"?
Well of course I would
But it's like saying I can't form a rock-and-roll band because I'm not British and the first rock band was British
Hey OP, just started reading the thread, and got frustrated at the start. I know what you mean and could care less how you defined it. Here's a list of games I think you might enjoy. Sorry if any have already been mentioned I figured no one was answering the original question.
1) Vagante- this game is fun as hell and sooner or later it will have online play. It's better if you play games in a local co op fashion, but I still think it's fun.
2) Nuclear Throne- you posted the picture, if you're debating whether to try it or not- try it
3) Risk of Rain- I haven't gone back to this game in a while but it had it's time
4) Tallowmere- I got it while it was cheap. I thought it was going to be a cheaply made game. It didn't have the character customization I'd hoped for... but it's better than it looked
5) Vertical Drop Heroes- same deal as Tallowmere expected garbage because it was cheap... kind of addicting.
6) 20XX- Megaman meets randomly generated co op
7)Towerclimb- this game is challenging and I like that.
8) Super House of Dead Ninjas- I'm straying further and further from your tastes as the list goes on. It's fall down but instead of a marble you're a ninja, the levels are randomly generated.
Lastly I'd like to recommend Hell Divers. People on here will argue "pay to win" or that it has nothing to do with what you're looking for. I think it's fun as shit and one of the best games I've played in a long time. Hope it helps.
Pic is from Vagante
>>321040469
Did you read the first 2 points and then get bored and skip to the end?
>>321038002
those are called Roguelites,
Games like BoI, and FTL
>>321040551
Not really.
Before FPS games, we had Doom clones.
Before open world games, we had GTA clones.
You are perfectly free to make a game based on some elements of Rogue. But you can't call it a Roguelike unless it meets a certain list of requirements. Feel free to call it a PDL.
>>321038469
but, the new Black Ops is the best RPG ever made
It's a much better RPG than any Final Fantasy game.
>>321040560
>could care less
Oh dear.
>>321040660
>Before FPS games, we had Doom clones.
>Before open world games, we had GTA clones.
Doom clones ARE FPS games, and we had Daggerfall in 1996, before we had GTA3
>>321036895
Binding of issac isn't a roguelike you retarded jackass
>>321040549
What's wrong with the Berlin interpretation? It seem very accurate.
>>321040738
glad you're sticking around for grammatical errors the world needs you.
>>321040560
Thank you for your recommendations! I'll definitely try those once they go on sale.
>>321040775
>hurr ur dumb
>literally didn't read the entire post
How's it feel to live with Down's Syndrome?
>>321040562
Aside from not being turn-based and only being pseudo-grid-based, BOI hits every "high value factor" on that list
>>321040316
>High value
>Low value
>No actual numbers ascribed to anything, purely qualitative and thus useless for an objective argument
Am I supposed to be impressed?
>>321040759
I don't understand your point, retard.
Roguelikes ARE RPGs. That doesn't mean all RPGs are Roguelikes. The whole reason terms like GTA clone and Doom clone fell out of use is because games using similar mechanics while being clearly distinct started being made. It's the same deal with Roguelikes.
Should i try Infra Arcana?
Ayo fuck all this shit, I'm hankering after a good roguelike.
I played ADOM and NetHack back in the day and Dredmor a few years ago.
Is SanctuaryRPG a roguelike or just an ASCII RPG?
>>321039774
I'm not even the guy that you're responding to, but you sound like you're 15 or so.
You've been wrong this entire time, and don't realize it, thinking your way of viewing things is objectively correct, when it's entirely wrong, and it's been pointed out to you that it's wrong and you grasp at straws trying to make an argument that was doomed from the start.
Get a grip.on those straws that you're grasping
>>321040957
>ASCII RPG?
This.
Is SmashTV a roguelike?
>>321040939
And aside from being a first person shooter with no stat assignment or perks, the levelling system in CoD's multiplayer somehow makes it an RPG.
>>321040942
I posted it just as a guideline for what qualifies as a roguelike for people who don't know. That's it.
>>321041031
So it's like Dorf Fortress?
Man, I really need something. If first-person dungeon crawlers can make a semi-comeback, why can't roguelikes?
>>321040948
Yes. Its really fun.
>>321041178
Because first person crawlers don't have schisms in the community over innovation
THEY'RE ROGUELITES
They use elements of rogue but only few of them, they're a lite version of rogue
Stop your autistic squabbling you fags
>>321041178
>If first-person dungeon crawlers can make a semi-comeback, why can't roguelikes?
Because dungeon crawlers don't have the "roguelike police" telling you that you can't play Legend of Grimrock because it's not truly turn-based
Roguelike purists don't want their genre to "come back", because heaven forbid anything deviate slightly from their otab simulators
>>321036895
Try Nuclear throne
>>321036895
>>321037471
>>321038140
>>321038302
>>321038319
>>321038450
>>321038878
>>321039075
>>321039173
>>321039205
>>321039283
>>321039384
>>321039427
>>321039604
>>321039778
>>321039806
>>321039826
I'm not even halfway through the thread.
These are all people who have no idea about genre of games, they are most likely under the age of 18,
please, if you don't know what you're talking about, stop talking,1st and last post I'm making in the thread
>>321036895
Downwell
Its about 3€ when not on sale, so yeah.
Sunless sea looks good too.
Then there's the classics like Spelunky
Also for reference, I am a classic roguelike addict too. That doesn't mean I am anal retentive about naming.
>>321041376
>recommending SJW throne
>>321041443
>These are all people who have no idea about genre of games, they are most likely under the age of 18
This is the Roguelike autist version of "If you criticize Dota it just means you haven't played it"
I'm 31, I've ascended in Crawl 3 times, BOI is a roguelike according to your very own Berlin Bible
Remind me how pick up ammo in Infra Arcana without picking gun.
>>321041443
Excellent contribution, you sure convinced me with those compelling arguments
>>321040551
This is the same sort of thing mobas went through, first being called AoS-like, then Dota-like, before people started using the name MOBA or ARTS, but of course, moba being the least accurate name for it, is what everyone started calling it.
>>321041570
not at all,
BoI is not a roguelike for many reasons, if you think it is then you must not know what a RL is
>>321041604
Thank you, I thought I did a good job as well.
>>321041618
MOBA is the most accurate term
Calling Dota and its ilk "ARTS" isn't accurate because there's less action and less strategy in Dota than in a proper RTS
>>321041697
>1st and last post I'm making in this thread
>last post i'm making in this thread
>last post i'm making
>last post
>last
>l
>>321041443
Lose the attitude before you lose your teeth, kiddo.
>>321041697
>not at all, now let me just repeat the thing that was just proven false
Holy shit it really is like talking to a Dota player
>>321041697
Those it really fucking matter.
You are just discussing fucking labels.
If everybody calls it a roguelike, just call classic roguelikes classic roguelikes and you are done
>>321041842
>>321038571
So, what is the best RPG to have come out this year?
>>321041854
>>321036895
Abyss oddysey
>>321041570
>>321041804
>Proven false
Wow great proof there buddy, so Binding of Isaac is a roguelike huh? Let me just check the my holy book as you call it and- oh wait it actually doesn't possess several of the high value qualities of a roguelike.
Also, comparing us to dotards isn't really that logical. We're not defending the game, we're just trying to correct people who are making categorical errors.
>>321041952
>being THIS MAD about being proven wrong that you have to shitpost
lmao so sad
>>321041986
this
>>321041986
>Also, comparing us to dotards isn't really that logical. We're not defending the game, we're just trying to correct people who are making categorical errors.
Oh you mean like Dotards and their autistic crusade against the term "MOBA?"
>>321041952
Call of Duty is more of an RPG than Mass Effect 3 was
>>321042006
Just because a game has one or two elements of another genre, doesn't mean the game is that genre
>>321042079
I didn't know that was a discussion. Whatever that may be about that doesn't change the validity of the arguments made in this thread.
>>321036895
Sword of the stars : the pit.
Its super extensive, quite difficult, and a lot of replay value
>>321042089
but, Mass Effect 3 was a visual Novel, because you could romance the other characters, get your genres straight
>>321036895
>Roguelike
Now that I've said it I'll list what I played that has some semblance of permanent death, procedural gen, and unlock system
>Risk of Rain
Really needs Glass artifact but can be great; unfortunately the netcode isn't so.
>Spelunky
Very much worth playing.
>Rogue Legacy
It's fucking shit for a roguelite, I don't even bloody care if it has airdashing or not.
Alright those aside I wouldn't mind other suggestions too, I want to wash my mouth of Afterbirth as it's like the only expansion I've ever witnessed that actually made the game overall worse. 30 FPS nonsense aside, is Nuclear Throne truly worth my while?
That upcoming STRAFE game supposedly has procedural generation but I'm not sure if it will practically be a 'roguelite' in FPS form.
While not truly roguelite at all, you can try playing Doom RPG + DoomRL Arsenal w/ random maps generated from OBLIGE, using Doom 2 w/ the latest GZDoom; there is a launcher available to make launching the combination of mods much more tolerable. Quit the game when you die and generate another batch of levels. Alternatively, use various megawads.
>>321042169
>I didn't know that was a discussion. Whatever that may be about that doesn't change the validity of the arguments made in this thread.
Right, so I'm waiting for you guys to start tackling the valid arguments that I've been making, go right on ahead, I insist
>>321041531
why is it SJW throne? explain this anon
>>321042235
list a single valid argument you've made in this thread
>>321042235
Repeat your arguments and I shall.
>>321042239
>responding to shitposters
>>321042235
I thought dota-tards were the one that liked the term Moba....
>>321042239
I'll just leave this here.
FUCKING NORMIES
DUNGEONS OF DREDMOR ISN'T A ROGUELIKE BECAUSE THERE'S NO HUNGER SYSTEM OR DIAGONAL MOVEMENT
BINDING OF ISAAC ISN'T A ROGUELIKE BECAUSE IT'S NOT TURN-BASED
SPELUNKY ISN'T A ROGUELIKE BECAUSE IT'S NOT TURN-BASED OR ON A 2D PLANE
ROGUELITE IS A TERM MADE BY NORMIE REVIEW SITES
GET OFF MY BOARD
>>321042203
Man, I wish the rereleased Rogue Legacy one day as an actual rogue-lite with true permadeath.
There were many good things about it, it was a nice mix between something bullet hellish and platformish. But the grinding ruined it
>>321042364
Haha nope! They fucking hate the term, pretty much entirely because Riot Games is the one that cooked it up
http://store.steampowered.com/search/?tags=1716&page=1#sort_by=Reviews_DESC&tags=1716&page=1
Anything above 90% with at least 200 ratings Early Access shit excluded.
You are welcome.
>>321036895
>Nuclear Throne
>BoI
>Rogue Legacy
>roguelikes
Saging a reddit thread.
>>321042406
If you want you're post to be qualified as a ragepost, then the post must include REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Otherwise it's ragepostlite:^)
haha it's like the absolute worst people who post on this board decided to show up in this thread to make convenient screencaps of why people hate this place
>>321042406
>DUNGEONS OF DREDMOR ISN'T A ROGUELIKE BECAUSE THERE'S NO HUNGER SYSTEM OR DIAGONAL MOVEMENT
This makes no sense anon
>>321042469
Caves of Qud is the only decent Roguelike on the first page of those listings, the majority of the games listed aren't even roguelikes
>>321042406
>I don't want you to use roguelikes for these games
>but I don't want you to use roguelite either!
Maybe you should just take that dick out of your mouth
>>321042203
>Afterbirth was a disaster
Holy shit was it really? I remember enjoying the fuck out of Rebirth, how did they fuck up Afterbirth?
Would you still recommend it if it goes on a decent sale?
>>321041986
>This list can be used to determine how roguelike a game is. Missing some points does not mean the game is not a roguelike. Likewise, possessing some points does not mean the game is a roguelike.
Berlin interpretation is literally useless for defining the difference between a roguelite and a roguelike, there aren't actually any values assigned to anything so it's not like we can add up the things BoI has and doesn't have and come up with a "roguelike score".
>>321042406
But a roguelike doesn't need hunger or diag movement.
>>321042596
He's lying, why do you listen to other anons so easily anon?
Afterbirth was just as good
>>321042397
I thought you weren't supposed to attack devs for their personal politics?
VAGANTES GETTING ONLINE CO-OP?
FIASKDLJASDF
If its not turn based then its not a roguelike.
Kindly fuck off.
>>321042521
This is the result of being such an insular community for so long
They'd just prefer those games to not exist entirely, because these people have spent the last 10 years playing Nethack before some game dev came along and tapped the well of procedural generation
It's the same sort of backlash that Dota players had against League of Legends; an insular community being forced to accept that their genre is now being innovated on
>>321042683
PFFFFFFFFFFFHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
>>321042397
I love nuclear throne, disappointing that the Dev's a retard but that's not gonna stop me from playing it. Still fun.
>>321042518
Blame Steam's tag system or your overly strict definition of what contitutes a game rogule-like. Rogue-lite obviously did not stick.
>>321042601
Common sense prevails. Missing a hunger system? Eh, we'll let it slide.
Missing every single key aspect of gameplay? Hmm, maybe this game might just not be a fucking Roguelike.
It's really not hard if you've ever played a roguelike before to understand what is, and isn't, part of the genre.
>>321042601
Look, I don't want to use the berlin interpretation. For me and many other people the very least you need for something to be called a roguelike is >>321037701
>>321040073
>TOME
>roguelike
Pick one.
Much too diluted for a roguelike since it has adventure mode.
>>321042792
>It's really not hard if you've ever played a roguelike before
This is going to be the "free space" in the RLG purist buzzword bingo card
Here you go
http://www.roguebasin.com
>>321038124
Rip dcss
>casuals thinking roguelites are roguelikes
>>321042763
he isnt the dev
>>321042683
This is sjw-town now anon
Half the people here spend their time looking up twitter screencaps and bitching about brown and/or female characters in video games
>>321042763
He's generally a pretty cool guy.
His opinions on hiring policies don't really matter given that he works at a studio that consists of two people.
>>321042810
>Look, I want to use my strict and arbitrary individual definition because I REALLY don't want to discuss Binding of Isaac
>>321042810
I'd accept >>321037701 as the minimum to be considered a roguelike game if Elona wasn't considered a roguelike by most people but it is and doesn't have permadeath.
>>321042397
That's retarded.
it's like someone hiring a actor/actress to play the wife of the main character.
WHY CAN'T IT BE MALE, SAYING YOU"RE ONLY LOOKING FOR A FEMALE IS SEXIST.
YOU SHOULD ALLOW EVERYONE TO APPLY AND JUST IGNORE THE MALES
...seriously?
>>321042817
TOME specifically has a Roguelike Mode.
By your logic Nethack isn't a roguelike because Wizard Mode exists.
>>321041697
>its not a rogue-like unless I like it xD
>>321042896
Yes he is.
>>321040551
No, it means you can't form a rock-and-roll band if your music isn't like rock-and-roll.
>>321043004
No. Google is your friend, im not spoon feeding :)
>>321042596
Did you really miss all the threads? Honestly it really just made the game more annoying to play and also introduced some bullshit challenges, there are some things I like about it but I wouldn't say it's really worth it unless you really want the synergies.
>>321042936
Arbitrary? Those aspects are core parts of what makes a game a roguelike. Play Rogue for yourself.
And I like Binding of Isaac, but that doesn't mean it's a roguelike.
>>321042949
Permadeath is literally less important to the genre than turn-based gameplay is, what's so hard to understand?
Honestly I wasn't a fan of Rogue Legacy, too grindy. And the core gameplay, physics, art style, music, writing, setting, etc weren't good enough to make up for it. It's a good concept with less than stellar execution.
Also I'm not really a fan of procedurally generated games in general.
The consuming shadow is good.Its made by yahtzee
>>321042936
Yes, and? You say that like he's wrong for knowing what he likes.
BoI is a twin stick shooter (or "SmashTVLike") with random room generation. It plays nothing like rogue or any other roguelike. If we can't use genre words to describe core gameplay, they become a lot less useful.
>>321043039
>Arbitrary? Those aspects are core parts of what makes a game a roguelike. Play Rogue for yourself.
I have. It sure is turn-based. Binding of Isaac isn't, but still has a similar feel.
Oh wait, I forgot, I OBVIOUSLY haven't played any RLs according to you, just like how I OBVIOUSLY haven't played Dota whenever I dare to criticize it
Is black ops 3 the best RPG released this year? or what?
>>321042996
because you don't like BO3 doesn't mean it's not a RPG you shitlord, get with the times.
Black Ops 3 is everything a RPG needs to be these days, and to say it's not a RPG means you're misinformed,
you think I'm using the term RPG wrong? you're just a grandpa,
who cares if you like real RPGs, Black Ops 3 is a RPG because I say it is.this is what you sound like
>>321043029
I haven't been on /v/ for a while, and every time I skimmed over /boig/ on /vg/ it didn't seem like there was any HAPPENING going on.
Can you give me a tl;dr of what they added that made it worse? What specifically made it more annoying to play? I remember when Wrath of the Lamb was released and I thought the Cellar was really annoying because of FUCKING SPIDERS, but I didn't think it made it worse.
>>321043026
I've seen their dev logs and kept up with their involvement as the game has developed.
It's both of their game.
>>321043126
>Binding of Isaac isn't, but still has a similar feel.
You've never played Rogue. Or if you have, you have severe brain damage.
The games don't even remotely resemble each other. BoI has more in common with Zelda 1 than it does Rogue.
>>321043137
I notice that Call of Duty is the go-to example for you purist shitposters, another buzzword to add to the bingo card
>>321043126
>but still has a similar feel.
>something about Dota
Has it occurred to you that the reason people tell you that you don't know what you're talking about might be because you don't know what you're talking about?
>>321037701
I'm all up for the new kind of roguelike games, but I can see how it'd be annoying to search for old style roguelikes only to find all sorts of games without the classic grid-like movement and turn based gameplay.
It'd be nice if we had different names for both, but it's too late I guess.
>>321043207
its Jan's first, Ismail was just a meme "heres my input xDD" guy and producer
>>321043210
>Roguelikes are just a subgenre of RPGs
>Zelda is an RPG
>BOI has elements of both
Not seeing the problem here?
>>321043126
>I have. It sure is turn-based. Binding of Isaac isn't, but still has a similar feel.
Just because it has a similar feel (to you) doesn't mean that it's like Rogue.
>Oh wait, I forgot, I OBVIOUSLY haven't played any RLs according to you, just like how I OBVIOUSLY haven't played Dota whenever I dare to criticize it
Where is this Dota shit coming from? When did we mention Dota? And I never thought you had never played any roguelikes, only that you couldn't tell the difference between modern "roguelikes" and classics.
>>321043096
>that art
>>321043225
In Call of Duty you gain experience, and can level up, and use new equipment based on your level.
is that not everything that makes a RPG?
>>321037701
turn based combat? what a tool you are
>>321043113
Bol? Sorry I googled it and I couldn't find anything
Link please.
>>321043270
Yeah, just like how Ethan Coen wasn't involved with the direction of any Coen Brothers movie until 2003.
>>321036895
Why not try your hand at an actual Roguelike?
I suggest Poschengband, a recently updated *band variant which provides a multitude of different character options and a huge world to explore.
Also the final boss will provide a real challenge for those being afraid that the game might be too easy.
Here is a gif showing one of the higher level spells from the Daemon-school, Call the Void.
>>321043298
>I don't understand what "subgenre" means
Stop posting.
>>321043304
>Where is this Dota shit coming from?
Because you argue exactly like a Dotard, probably the result of being in a similar community
>>321040560
8) Super House of Dead Ninjas- I'm straying further and further from your tastes as the list goes on. It's fall down but instead of a marble you're a ninja, the levels are randomly generated.
Seconding this one. I've noticed that Downfall has been getting quit a bit of attention recently, and Dead ninjas is a superior game in every sense with a similar concept.
>>321043251
It really isn't. /v/ seems to be the last place on the internet completely unwilling to say "roguelite" or "roguelikelike." Really pisses people off around here for some reason, but it's pretty clear that developers, media personalities and the average consumer understand that terminology.
>>321043359
Lol graphics sucks.
>>321043489
>>321043491
Comedy gold.
>>321040948
tea my nig play it while listening to come occult-rock or eletric wizard for maximum effect.
>>321043304
the person you were replying to was the only person to mention dota, he's the only one in the thread to say anything about it, yeah he mentioned it 10 or so times, but it's only been him.
here's an example of what happened
>BoI is a Roguelike
>No it's not
>But DOTA
>wut?
>DOTA DOTA DOTA DOTAFAG
>wtf are you even saying
>GO BACK TO DOTAI dislike dota, I didn't like it 10+ years ago when I first played it, and I still don't like it, that doesn't mean that Binding of Isaac is a Roguelike though
>>321043419
Just check out >>321042469
Steam itself is proof to the contrary. Roguelike is used for all sorts of games that only feature permadeath and random level generation.
>>321043489
>>321043491
I hope you're just shitposters from /rlg/ because the ascii in PCB looks great and it's overall a magnificent *band variant.
>>321043489
Don't use my post to shitalk rougelikes you little bitch
>>321043419
>It really isn't. /v/ seems to be the last place on the internet completely unwilling to say "roguelite" or "roguelikelike."
It's the other way around m8
>>321043137
>shitlord
Greats opinions tumblr
>>321043419
>but it's pretty clear that developers, media personalities and the average consumer understand that terminology.
All of that terminology is wrong, though. What you refer to as a Roguelike, or a Roguelite, Roguelikelike is a PDL.
Keeping the Rogue part makes no sense, because these games have almost nothing in common with the original. All it does is breed confusion, and make like and lite interchangeable.
They're Procedural Death Labyrinths.
>>321043580
Yeah I kind of got that it was only him, most other replies usually contained some kind of argument (even if they were poor arguments at best).
>>321043359
Also to add as an example, you can even play as a Ring of Power getting shitters to carry you and consuming other, lesser rings.
Has 'The Swindle' been fixed yet?
I saw the first impressions of the game when it came out and it looked very interesting but people said the core movement system of the game was fucked so I didn't get it. Has it been fixed?
>>321043309Fuck you, i liked it
>>321043681
so, are you agreeing with me? or do you not know how to read?
you are calling people that are calling Binding of Isaac a Roguelike Tumblr, right?
because that is literally what you just posted.
Roguelike in its purest definition is simply subgenre of strategic RPGs where you control only a single unit in a dungeon crawling gameplay setting.
Berlin Interpretation is old discredited shit that nobody who actually plays roguelikes takes seriously for its lack of severity in stressing core gameplay mechanics over arbitrary shit like the number of lives you get or how shops are implemented.
>>321043797
I enjoy it, but the art is straight out of 2006 newgrounds
Yahtzee should really hire someone to do it for him.
>>321043838
He's calling you Tumblr for using Tumblr buzzwords like "shitlord"
>>321043681
Yes, all people that think BoI is a Roguelike are Tumblr, but you shouldn't call their opinions great, even ironically, because they might think you're serious
>>321043652
>SanctuaryRPG calls itself a roguelike repeatedly
I am upset.
>>321043872
>Roguelike in its purest definition
>no mention of turn based gameplay
Why are you commenting on a topic you have no understanding of?
>>321043883
So, talking from his perspective is tumblr, got it.
>>321043881
He seems pretty adverse to working with anyone else.
>>321043883
Shitlord used to be common internet lingo
>>321043872
I agree, but
>subgenre of strategic RPGs where you control only a single unit in a dungeon crawling gameplay setting
doesn't cover all that makes a game a roguelike. Yes, it seems overly specific already but it doesn't cover what the actual core gameplay mechanics are. This is why we're having the discussion.
>>321043953
Does strategic RPG not implicitly suggest turn-based gameplay? I didn't realize that RTSRPG was a genre that exists.
>>321043872
Procedural generation and permadeath is what really attracts people to roguelikelikelikelikes. The fact that they're never the exact same game twice allows for infinite replayability.
>>321044006
Common on SomethingAwful maybe
>>321036895
OP try magicite , terraria, roguelands if that is realeased, or just click roguelike tag on steam
and if you want to try real rogue-likes try stone soup dungeon crawl or angband
>>321044006
Shitlord used to be common schoolyard lingo, but this is 4chan. You can't say anything without some retard accusing you of being something retarded. According to this thread I'm an autistic roguelike purist who plays dota but hates both binding of isaac and roguelikes.
>>321040948
Yes.
It's pretty fucking hard though.
>>321036895
None of those games are like Rogue though.
>>321044084
>I didn't realize that RTSRPG was a genre that exists.
Sounds like Brutal Legend, or WC3's hero units
>>321044084
ah, but you see,
Binding of Isaac is a Strategic RPG, just like Mass Effect and Fallout 4,
you have to strategically aim your gun at the enemy in order to hit them.
>>321044234
You meant to say easy, right?
Fucking scrubs.
>>321043152
The good things are unlockable starting items for some of the crew. Cain and Eve players especially will appreciate it.
Initially the expansion was released piece by piece because Edmund didn't want anyone datamining because he went with another ARG. It wasn't just one character but also a few fair other items and such. Azazel was nerfed briefly as well, and Judas is no longer guaranteed to get a Devil/Angel Room either (Book of Belial chance from 2500% to 25%) so you're also paying for one nerf at least. I think it was handled poorly
The new alternative floors don't really contribute that much, and the new alternative bosses that can appear early like Sandman often get complaints.
Devil/Angel Rooms are more likely to be useless, and the new room layouts aren't so much fun. I'm especially sick of the L-shaped rooms.Ultra GreedandHushhave damage resistance scaling from your damage stat. I think the latter boss has really odd placement given how it's meant to be the most grand boss fight so far.
Drowned Hives and Chargers are the worst, they're bulkier than usual and drop off a nice present when killed, another drowned charger and a diagonal four-way tear blast respectively. Boring as shit and slows the earlygame.
Greed Mode is fun the first few times but maxing the Greed machine to get more unlocks can get very grating. You need to max it to unlock a new character which is tougher than pre-Afterbirth Lost.
SPEED is the most bullshit challenge ever as everything is speed up but you, and The Guardian depends on your mulligan buddy not walking into shit to get your hearts depleted. More challenges unlock more pills and useless neutral effects that just really make the PhD less useful.
And heads up in that the Stopwatch is also no longer a special item and you need to be hurt to activate, and the batteries don't max out your use item's charge anymore.
2000charlimit, but this is from recollection
>>321044260
If people had acknowledged the fact he doesn't called them TRUE roguelikes in the OP this thread wouldn't have gone to shit.
Instead people ignored it and we get to have the same goddam quarrel for the thousand time yipee
>>321042735
>muh old ways are the only way
Sorry lots of people prefer something more engaging and challenging for the category.
>>321044085
Procedural generation and permadeath are not unique, centrally defining gameplay mechanics; they can be added to literally any genre of game while preserving that genre. Something like turn-based, grid-based gameplay on the other hand cannot.
That is the distinction I'm trying to draw here. People who refer to "actual" roguelikes are defining it based on its unique attributes, not secondary characteristics that can be added to any genre of game.
>>321044424
That's fine, but don't call it something it's not. Both sides benefit from having seperate names.
>>321044424
>If its not silent then its not a silent movie.
>muh old ways are the only way
>>321042735
>If it's a first person shooter it's not a RPG
Fallout4 is as much of a RPG as any Final Fantasy game and you know it
>>321043739
You sold me.
>>321044424
It's such a stupid debate
Roguelike purists acknowledge that RPGs can be real-time, and that RLs are a subgenre of RPG, but can't seem to piece these two concepts together
It's like that one scene in Spongebob where Patrick continues to insist that it's not his wallet
>>321042735
Must suck to be stuck in the 90s anon
>>321042494
Underrated shitpost. You are a funny guy.
>>321044424
>Binding of Isaac
>engaging or challenging
It's all luck my man. The first time I played rebirth I got kamikaze and whatever makes you get healed by bombs, so I could just give myself health whenever I wanted to.
>>321044516
>It's ok for silent movies to have sound, because it's not the main reason it's called a silent film,
>if you think about it, every film released in the last 5 years are just silent films with sound.
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ITS STILL A SILENT FILM EVEN THOUGH IT HAS SOUND BECAUSE I SAY SO
this is you
>>321044476
>Procedural generation and permadeath are not unique, centrally defining gameplay mechanics; they can be added to literally any genre of game while preserving that genre. Something like turn-based, grid-based gameplay on the other hand cannot.
Except you can have an RPG that is neither turn-based nor grid-based and still preserve that genre
>>321044579
>cyberpunk is a subgenre of scifi
>so starwars can be called cyberpunk
???
>>321044579
>RLs are a subgenre of RPG
How about you change that sentence to
>RLs are a subgenre of turn-based RPGs
>>321044640
I agree, except for the part where that's the exact opposite of what I just said. Idiot.
>>321044645
You can preserve it as an RPG, but not as a roguelike, and arguably not as a strategic RPG either.
>>321044683
but anon, Starwars is the best cyberpunk series,
just like how BoI is a great Roguelike
case and point.
>>321044579
RPGs have been real time since, what, 1982? And the genre was literally invented in the late 70s?
Meanwhile, Roguelikes have been a clearly defined genre since the 1980s all the way up to about 2007 or so until some shitters started calling their PDLs Roguelikes because they were too dumb to understand the difference.
A couple of years based purely on hardware limitations, vs over 30 years through countless generations of 3D graphics.
Hey RL fags. Have there been any games released in the last five years that actually fit your definition of roguelike?
>>321044796
Roguelike players were living in their caves playing Nethack while the genre evolved around them
Sounds about right
>>321044776
Oh anon, you're such a card.
>>321044579
>turn-based RPGs are a subgenre of RPGs
>RPGs can be real time
>therefore there's no reason why turn-based RPGs can't be real time
CHECKMATE ATHEISTS
>>321044476
The thing is, the "core" genre of roguelikes (being a turn-based, grid-based RPG aspect of it) doesn't really have a name independent of its other qualities (random generation, permadeath, etc...). Because they have always gone together.
So when roguelikes are used as a "modifier" for other "core" genre (roguelike, platformer, roguelike bullet hell...) it seems like the unnamed "core" genere of roguelikes get rejected.
I think the thing is that there really isn't a "genre" that is turn-based, grid-based, single character RPG without roguelike elements in which turns work like they work in roguelikes. At least not a good one.
>>321044872
Caves of Qud
>>321044796
>PDLs
That is never going to catch on, you weirdo.
I bought Nuclear Throne but refunded it within 40 mins
It's okay I guess but I just hated the way it felt like everything was shaking, even AFTER I completely disabled screen shake. Just makes me nauseous.
>>321044872
Crypt of the Necrodancer is amazing.
>>321044872
2010
A Quest Too Far
City of the Condemned
Dance of Death
Demonhunt
Middlecrest
Z.H.P. Unlosing Ranger VS Darkdeath Evilman
2011
A Little Anxious When It's Dark
Ascii Wilderness (post apocalyptic/wilderness survival)
Legend of Siegfried
Pitman
World of Tey
XirrelaiRPG
2012
Ultima Ratio Regum
The ASCII Project
2013
The Guided Fate Paradox
Cataclysm Dark Days Ahead
>>321036895
>Nuclear Throne
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEvOZAFZIFE
>>321044926
What if a game has a system like Final Fantasy's ATB? It's pseudo-turn-based.
One could even argue that having a "swing timer" for your character's attacks is a form of being turn-based, only the "turns" happen in real time.
>>321044987
Any good?
>>321045113
Which ones would you recommend?
>>321043964
He is literally gimping himself by refusing to work with someone with art skills
Consuming Shadow is a cool game but it's so completely lacking in style that I can't blame some people for passing over it entirely
Same deal with Poacher
>>321045228
I'm playing CDDA right now, it's pretty good if you like survival games.
>>321045228
>>321044872
If you want some RLs available on steam that are easy to get into I'd recommend:
Sword of the Stars: The Pit
Dungeons of Dredmor
Tales of Maj'Eyal
Some people might disagree if these truly are roguelikes but they're at least close to the definition.
>>321045228
Cataclysm: DDA
Otherwise, I would still with older roguelikes that are still getting updated constantly
>>321044872
Hey RL(?) fag, can you name a single indie "roguelike" that keeps getting updated after five years?
>>321045215
ATB isn't pseudo-turn-based. Turn based systems already can and do have dynamic changes in turn order. ATB is just a turn based system with annoying timer for no reason.
Fuck ATB.
>>321045228
I liked it, best post apocalyptic game I've played yet.
I like how it uses water as currency, and you need to drink water to survive, and water is fucking heavy so if you're rich you can't carry around all your money on you.
also, character creation is pretty great, a shit ton of mutations you can pick from if you want to be a mutated human. and they all effect gameplay. you want to play as a 4 armed guy, and run around with 4 revolvers shooting everything you see? go for it.
ability to stop time, have claws, 2 heads, catch shit on fire with your mind, etc. creates a unique experience based on the character you created.
It's not that long though at the moment, and the difficulty curve is a bit steep at the beginning.
also, the crafting system in it is pretty great, one of the best I've seen.
>>321045228
>>321045398
Cataclysm is pretty good too
one of my favorites, a bit of a steep learning curve though,
I enjoyed Rogue Legacy and Spelunky a lot.
Are there any other games very similar to these?
>>321045354
Sword of the Stars sucks ass
Dungeon of Dredmor is meh, very boring. Terrible interface (the best interfaces are those that allow you to use mouse to learn the game, but don't force you to once you know the keys- inventory management in DoD is incredibly clunky)
ToME4 is okay, but actually pretty hardcore with numbers. It has a good interface but it is by no means the best starter roguelike around.
I think better starting points are Brogue and DCSS, but they are not on Steam
>>321045423
Be that as it may, the definition of a "turn" may not be the same as it was in 1980
>>321045509
99 Levels to Hell
>>321045661
>reviews: mixed
hmm
>>321045594
You are retarded.
>>321045713
>99 Levels to Hell is a rogue-like, which means surviving is key and every time you play you get a new set of levels to play
>>321045720
Well that was a nice debate we were having, I guess
>>321045837
>the definition of a "turn" may not be the same as it was in 1980
What the fuck do you want me to say? How do I debate with something this fucking stupid? You didn't even say what you think the new magical meaning of "turn" is.
>maybe something has maybe changed at some point somehow
Yeah? Well luckily it fucking hasn't. The fuck do you want me to say?
You are retarded.
>>321046010
>Yeah? Well luckily it fucking hasn't
As I said, one could argue that an "autoattack timer" is a form of limiting a character's output, similar to a turn-based system
The "turn" is just the time in between swings
>>321046159
no, turn means taking turns,
me waiting 1 second between attacking while you wait 3 seconds between attacking, isnt' the same as me taking 3 turns in the amount of time it takes you to take 1
>>321046159
No. The open quotations turn inverted commas is when you get to act. Just like it has always been. Having to wait for your turn doesn't change the meaning of the word turn. Children understand this. Why don't you?
>>321045354
SoTS and DoD are god-awful and TOME you can get for free from the official website.
One Way Heroics is excellent and usually on sale for dirt cheap.
I just hope that somebody will buy Dungeonmans and take the time to put the latest version up on TPB/KAT. It's the only nonfree western indie roguelike that isn't terrible and somehow managed to fly completely under the radar, probably because of the cheesy writing.
>>321037959
>Definitions evolve with time
Only if we let them, it doesn't just happen on its own.
>>321046350
>No. The open quotations turn inverted commas is when you get to act. Just like it has always been.
And the swing timer resetting is when you get to act in this hypothetical situation
Holy shit this thread turned into a cancerous cesspool quickly.
>>321046480
So what?
I'm serious. You are a stupid human being.
>>321045576
>>321046371
It's been a while since I last played SotS and DoD, are they really that awful? I guess I should revisit them and not recommend them to beginners.
>>321046501
That's what happens when you deal with the "Roguelike Police."
>>321046539
waiting your turn != taking turns
>>321036895
>>321043359
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead
>>321046371
>somehow managed to fly completely under the radar, probably because of the cheesy writing.
I'd guess it has a lot more to do with the $15 price tag.
>>321046539
>I can't understand your argument but maybe if I keep repeating "stupid" and "retarded," then I win!
What's wrong with using rogue-like to refer to any game that is like rogue and rogue-lite to refer to any game that has permadeath and procedurally generated content/levels?
>>321036895
This thread is so full of autism.
This is fucking insane.
Reminder that there is a new thread button at the top of the main page for you to make a thread discussing the semantics of roguelikes. Just let op have his damn fucking thread you whores.
>oh, look, a nuclear throne thread
>no, wait, its the exact same bitching about the definition of colloquialisms bitchfest that happens on /v/ every day
>>321046586
SoTS I would say it really is that bad.
DoD would be decent if it was the only roguelike that existed, but there are just so many better alternatives
>>321046626
>>321046679
>waiting your turn != taking turns
And explain to me, please, how one takes turns without waiting for their turn to come up?
>>321046704
Because having permadeath and procedural generation makes it like Rogue, and thus a roguelike
>>321046704
Absolutely nothing. People just like to troll "autists". Guess that is what 4chan is all about.
>>321046704
Literally nothing is wrong with it. /v/'s autism too stronk.
>>321046314
>>321046350
I think he's in a roundabout way asking the "well turns in roguelikes are simulating time anyway, so why not render that in real time?" question that gets brought up from time to time.
The answer to that is because that would contradict it being turn-based. The defining factor of turn-based games is not the fact that things are ordered in turns, but the fact that gameplay is executed in a way that actions will never ever take place until you take them.
The reason for this being that, as a strategic game, the goal is to afford you all the time necessary to choose your course of action, so that when you die from that course of action you can be satisfied by the fact you're a faulting scrub and have nobody to blame but yourself.
>>321046704
Read the thread. But I guess the TLDR is:
It creates problems with people discussing different things that have the same name. Also, just because two games share some gameplay aspects does not mean that they're of the same genre. You don't call CoD an RPG because the multiplayer has a leveling system.
>>321046893
Oh shit I misread your post, sorry.
>>321046772
in 5 seconds you can have a cookie
vs
after he has a cookie you can have a cookie
ok, it's been 5 seconds, I'm taking my cookie
"he hasn't had his yet"
I don't give a shit I'm taking mine now.
>>321046893
No but I would call FTL a rogue-lite. Or Spelunky. Or Crypt of the Necrodancer. Or Rogue Legacy.
>>321041714
ASSFAG or ASSFAGGOTS is the most accurate term. or even DOTA-clone. MOBA is a term one of those companies built around selling other people's work came up with to obsfucate the fact they're doing nothing but selling a clone of a starcraft/wc3 map some guy made in his spare time for free.
>>321036895
Nuclear Throne is great. Plenty of content, tight as fuck and actually gets harder as you get better. Just remember to turn off the cancerous screen shake effect
>>321046704
That is a great solution, the thing is, people that like Rogue-lites, insist on calling them Roguelikes, and then yell at anyone who tries to tell them they are calling it the wrong genre.
>>321047052
>not liking the vlambeer shake
gay
>>321046979
I would agree that this is acceptable, I thought he was saying to call them all rogue-likes but that was a mistake on my part.
>>321046859
>...the goal is to afford you all the time necessary to choose your course of action, so that when you die from that course of action you can be satisfied by the fact you're a faulting scrub...
This. When things are going south in a roguelike you can stop to think your actions.
>>321047059
Because it's not the "wrong genre" dipshit
>>321047161
In that case, add a tactical pause that can be used for situations like that
Problem solved
>>321047173
Do you want to have the discussion again? We're 330 posts in baby and I'm ready for a second round.
Does anyone play this game? Man I just love soulslikes, don't you?
>>321043881
> but the art is straight out of 2006 newgrounds
That was only a bad thing in 2006. Now its 110% forgivable.
>>321047173
it is tho.
Rogue-lites are not rogue-likes.
they share a single aspect or two,
Is Civilization 5 and Counter Strike the same genre? they're both multiplayer,
we should just get rid of the name Strategy and FPS as a genre, and just refer to them both Multiplayer games instead.
>>321047270
>Do you want to have the discussion again? We're 330 posts in baby and I'm ready for a second round.
So you're just going to ignore any argument that doesn't fit into your 'ROGUELIKE MUST BE TURN BASED OR ELSE NOT REAL ROGUELIKE BECAUSE MY AUTISM DEMANDS IT' paradigm?
Okay then
>>321047280
Minecraft is more of a Dark Souls game than Dark Souls 2
>>321047402
so, you're just going to ignore every point in the thread that proves you wrong?
Okay then
>>321046586
SotS is pretty shit, the problem is that if you're like me and get severe cravings for sci-fi RPG in a roguelike form there's basically no alternative.
Also I feel like a lot of the content added in the later expansions were really redundant and generally just watered down the gameplay.
I'd probably put it a little over Dredmor though, just because even if Dredmor has a more fleshed out skill system the actual dungeon crawling is so goddamn soulless that you may as well not be playing anything at all.
>>321046651
I never really understood people's complaints about the price, honestly. I don't buyfag at all but I've watched plenty of people freely pay that for much shittier games. My best guess is that after getting rused into buying DoD and SotS most steam "true roguelike" buyers were too jaded to trust another one with that much money.
>>321047375
I've got an idea.
Bear with me here, it might be uncomfortable.
How about you stop bitching about the criteria of increasingly and obsessively specific colloquial genres and just play video games?
>>321047375
>Rogue-lites are not rogue-likes.
Yes
They fucking are
>>321047528
I hate video games
where do you think you are?
>>321046704
I personally think they should just call the latter ironman games. It would erase all confusion on the matter and probably appeal to the "hardcore" demographic too.
>>321047513
>so, you're just going to ignore every point in the thread that proves you wrong?
So far 0 posts and counting
>>321047402
Look, I've been in this thread for a real long while now and I've made all my points. Feel free to read through it but don't assume you're right because you've chosen to ignore the entire thread before you posted.
>>321047514
Dungeon of the endless is pretty... well, shit too. But its a somewhat refreshing/interesting type of shit. For a few hours.
>>321036895
Ziggurat
>>321047598
So Rogue is an Ironman RPG
I like it
>>321047546
And an axe is a sword? you are autistic
>>321047612
>Look, I've been in this thread for a real long while now and I've made all my points.
I haven't really seen any points, I've seen a lot of circular reasoning though!
>>321047265
Dungeon of the endless had one and it felt pretty neat. I still would call it a roguelite or whatever hybrid game (tower defence?) it is. I should play it more this xmas.
itt: neckbeards get upset and shit on modern vidya
>>321047737
they both have sharp edges,
everything with a sharp edge of any kind is a sword.
Did you not go to school?
>>321047745
>tower defense
More like fucking run and pray.
>>321047265
Tactical pause has been a shitty mechanic in every single game it's ever been implemented in.
If your game is going to allow players to pause and think out their actions as a necessary part of gameplay then it has no business being in real time to begin with.
>>321047737
A sword is an axe-lite :^)
It's not a TRUE axe unless the handle is made out of wood!
>>321047868
In real life you could give a simultaneous order to 4 different people to do x thing at the same time. You cannot do this without tactical pause.
>>321047737
This standard /v/ thread, that happens several times a day, every day, is closer to obsessing over the differences between a halberd and a voulge. Then claiming halberd-likes and voulge-lites are/aren't halberd-likes and voulge-lites because the handles aren't made of the right type of wood or metal or there isn't the correct number of serrations on the blade.
So jesus christ shut the fuck up
>>321047936
Yes you can?
>Select the ones you want to order
>Order them all to do X
Just because it takes a little while to express the order doesn't mean you need to pause.
>>321048070
You're pretty thick, aren't you. I considered being really specific, but I didn't want to insult your intelligence. Seems I should have.
Clearly I mean four individual, specific orders. Yes, you can drag a box around the lot of them and order them to huddle up on some open spot in the middle of nowhere, but if it's a game that involves cover in a meaningful capacity you might went A to move to point 1, B to move to point 2, C to move to point 3 and D to move to point 4 all at the same time.
Would you like me to draw a bad Paint image, so you can be caught up like the child you are?
>>321047936
Guess how I can tell you've never played an RTS?
>>321047926
it doesn't matter what material the sword is made out of, if it can cut things it's a sword.
axes are swords.
Scissors are swords.
box cutters are all swords.
if you think there is any difference between an axe and a sword you are retarded, and have missed every point made in this thread so far.
>>321047936
In real life you'll never be in command of a number of completely mindless drones that are absolutely incapable of independent thought and need to be ordered to step out of the way of a moving truck.
So, tactical pause is there to make up for the fact video game AI is shit. Not to give simultaneous orders.
>>321047936
how the fuck do you give orders to 4 people at the same time in real life? Unless it's the exact same order.
if I want person A to go to the left, Person B to go to the right, and Person C and D to stay here, what can I say that communicates all of those things at the same time?
>>321048181
>real life you could give a simultaneous order to 4 different people to do x thing at the same time.
How exactly do you intend to SIMULTANEOUSLY give four different orders in real life?
>>321048312
spread eagle formation alpha, or something.
>>321048365
They have those in RTS too. It's the formation button.
>>321048181
want*
>>321048187
You're just as stupid as the other guy.
>>321048239
They're both the same thing. The AI can't figure out the meaning behind vague orders, they need specific ones, so you need tactical pause to give those specific orders in the same amount of time a vague one which a real person could interpret would take.
>>321048312
You can communicate those things in less than four or five seconds. Tactical pause does cut that to instantly, but it's better than having to cut back and forth between locations on the map while they file out one by one.
>>321048363
The amount of time, while not instant, is extremely short for trained soldiers.
Why are all of you so thick you can't figure this out yourselves and I have to be THIS wordy about it? Am I on /v/ or in a preschool?
>>321048363
To be fair, he didn't say "different" orders. hes just kinda illiterate/stupid so it sort of came out that way by the fact he made the statement at all.
If you look closely, you'll realize it's just a fucking stupid statement.
>>321048365
what if I want person A to go to the store to buy Root Beer, Person B to check the mail, Person C to make sandwiches, and Person D to start setting up the PS4,
how do I give all of those commands at the same time?
>think im gonna find some cool recommendations in the thread
>its all arguing from turn based roguelike retards
At this point you get what comes to you when you can't control yourselves and let people just discuss video games. I hope every non turn based game with permadeath is called a roguelike from now on and they all become way more successful than Binding of Isaac, and you dinosaurs and your turn based video games can go rot inside the earth.
>>321048181
I'm not the one you argued with earlier, so feel free to insult me if that makes you feel better.
>Clearly I mean four individual, specific orders
It's not clear because what you said was:
>In real life you could give a simultaneous order to 4 different people to do x thing at the same time
First off since you used "x" that implies that they all do the same thing, which you would know if you ever completed a math course in high school. Aside from that however, how do you suppose you would order 4 different people to do 4 different things at the same time in real life? I suppose you mean that they should execute the orders at the same time and not that you actually want to say four different things to four different people at the same time.
This is still possible to do in a game without tactical pause if you employ some timing.
>>321048463
Say that as quickly as you can with jargon cutting each individual action down to a single short word. It's a couple of seconds at most, and if you want they will all wait for a 'go' code too so their actions are synchronised.
They can know their orders beforehand then all go at once on a single word.
>>321048470
Its basically the fate of every /b/-lite or /b/-like board.
>>321048470
Or you can call them roguelites and the autists will leave you alone.
>>321048535
No, it does not imply they all do the same thing. If you had English as a first language, you would know this.
>>321037701
Turn-based combat and grid-based movement aren't really pillars of the genres design, just carryovers from the technical limitations of Rogue's era. You just couldn't make a game that complex with that small of a resolution in realtime, and that applied to a lot more PC games than just Rogue or its various clones.
They're traditional hallmarks of the genre but they aren't key to its appeal.
>>321048463
>>321048363
spread eagle formation alpha, it works every time.
whenever I'm in a group of people, I just yell it over and over until people do what I want them to do.
and the best part is I don't have to tell them what to do.
examples:
last week, at friends house, get a bit thirst, yell SPREAD EAGLE, FORMATION ALPHA,
one brings me soda, one fluffs my pillow, while the other reheats some pizza for me.
another example, at Walmart, in the game section
employee asks what I want
SPREAD EAGLE, FORMATION ALPHA
he goes and grabs the game I was looking for, old lady steps out of line for me, cute girl gives me her phone number, and that stupid punk Gerald trips on his face.
half of the time it works every time
>>321048549
>>321048463
So now we're to the point that tactical pauses exist because video games can't have the type of "downtime" a real life command situation would have, because the player would get bored/distracted, lose his squad, then start bitching about artificial difficulty.
Thus, "tactical" pause isn't an accurate term. It should be referred to as "tacticool pause."
>>321048609
>Turn-based combat and grid-based movement aren't really pillars of the genres design, just carryovers from the technical limitations of Rogue's era.
This
A billion times this
>>321048470
You can always go back to reddit.
>>321048584
I'm actually making a roguelite and I'll call it a roguelike just because these people are fucking animals and they don't deserve respect.
>>321048584
>catering to a small group of autistic grognards
Nah
>>321045125
Damn that's pretty good
>>321048609
That applies to numeric based stat systems and ... basically every concept of game design. As they're all a result of technical limitations.
>>321048697
>>321048609
>First-person combat and a 3d environment aren't really pillars of the genres design, just carryovers from the technical limitations of Doom's era
This is you right now.
>>321037701
This. Holy shit I hate it when some dude says "omg I love roguelikes I play them all the time" and turns out they haven't ever heard of NetHack.
>>321048584
sadly, not even the term roguelite is safe from autism.
Nothing is safe from autism.
I'm sure this has been mentioned but it really is the best. I have nearly 2000 hours in it, it's fucking immense.
>>321040457
Hero
>>321048879
Yep, and the same way keyboard&mouse are just techincal limitations of PC. Meanwhile gaming controllers have evolved from ~8 (and that was evolution from the earlier joystick) buttons to the beauties they are today.
>>321048967
... I didn't realize we were dicussing video games with a being from the 5th dimensional over-realm. how/when/where is your day so/after/before far?
>>321049072
>thumbsticks and squishy buttons
>beauty
>gaming controllers started at ~8 buttons
i want casuals to die.
>>321048609
Just because they originated from the technical limitations of the era doesn't mean that they arent pillars of the genres design.
Many people prefer 2d platformers over 3d platformers even though probably a lot of devs working on 2d would prefer 3d. This is why we need the distinction.
>>321049072
They're stopgaps until direct brain interfacing is developed. But gamepads will always be inferior to mouse+anything.
>>321044371
>sandman
You mean Ragman?
I actually beat Speed with my first try, got a Tec-X into Tripleshot. RNG was for once on my side
>>321049223
Procedural generation and perma-death are the "pillars" of the genre's design, otherwise they'd just be shitty boring RPGs
>>321049081
5th dimension? Disgusting. Don't the people of your era already know that the first goal of the enlightened ones would be to compress the universe into two dimensions?
>>321049328
Except they're not for reasons already outlined in this thread. In fact the vast majority of roguelikes break pregen and permadeath rules in some way.
>>321049328
so, you agree then, Diablo 2 is a rougelike
>>321049408
They shouldn't, because those are the best parts
It's really the parts you guys should be selling people on, not the turn-based aspect
>>321049582
Only in Hardcore mode
Also Diablo was directly inspired by Rogue so I'm not sure if this is supposed to be some kind of insult
>>321049607
Your subjective opinion on what's good for gameplay has nothing to do with the discussion.
>>321049607
You do realize the fact its possible to retain knowledge from previous plays means even the strictest permadeath system isn't actually permadeath, right?
>>321049996
>You do realize the fact its possible to retain knowledge from previous plays means even the strictest permadeath system isn't actually permadeath, right?
...Who gives a fucking shit, do you fucking autists have to put everything in terms of purity?
>it's not a TRUE roguelike
>it's not a TRUE turn-based system
this thread was worth it alone for the absolute autism it exposed amongst people pretending to care about Rogue.
>>321050087
...
>appeal to purity
>someone appeals to higher purity
>STOP APPEALING TO PURITY!!
At this point you're either retarded or trolling.
>>321050182
>it's not TRUE permadeath
>it's not TRUE autism
>>321050350
no anon, you are the autism
>>321050430
It's not true autism unless it's turn-based autism
>I'm a casual retard but I want to be cool and pretend I'm GoodPlayer™ so I'll call the game I like a roguelike so I can feel like a really hardcore player
/v/ - trash
>>321050834
>roguelikes
>"hardcore"
lmao
>>321050965
show me your IVAN winstreak then
yep, just like I thought
>>321051025
>show me your winning lottery ticket
>>321051147
absolutely retarded
>>321051130
learn to read
ok bye, casual losers, go play your casual babby games like isaac
>>321051219
Wow you guys really are like Dota players
>>321051314
The shittier the genre, the more seriously people take it.
its weird how it works
>>321051147
maybe u shud git gud
>>321036895
You're pretty good, OP.For some more fun and guaranteed replies, head over to /vr/ and ask what shader to emulate with.
>>321053476
I genuinely wasn't trying to bait, if anything I'm annoyed at all the autism in this thread.
I just wanted game recommendations. I don't care what the genre name is. Call me a casual, I don't give a fuck.
The people arguing about BoI etc. not being a roguelike are like the people who hate that languages are evolving. You can't stop it so just accept that the genre has a wider definition than it used to.
>>321053632
I'm very much to blame as I am >>321037701 so I apologize for derailing your thread so hard. It's just something I feel strongly about, so if you want to avoid it just call it something else. However I will try to redeem myself a little bit by posting my favourite roguelites:
FTL
Binding of Isaac: Rebirth
Risk of Rain
Spelunky
Crypt of the Necrodancer
These are all great so if you haven't played them I strongly recommend you do.
![[desiretoknowmoreintensifies].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Uvwhba3.jpg "[desiretoknowmoreintensifies]")
![header[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/pptLRj4.jpg "header[1]")
