How come Quake was abandoned and isn't as popular nowadays as Doom despite offering more? Imagine the shit you could do with the engine and 3D environment itself, mapping and mods. They could've done so much more if they didn't abandon it and went back to Doom. It's like choosing the Tong's ending in Deus Ex, they willingly regressed.
1. Doom came first of the two
2. Knee Deep in the Dead/On the Shores of Hell are easily better-designed levels than anything in Quake
3. Doom was much more moddable, so people were making content sooner and longer
4. Quake was the precursor to Half Life and its myriad of mods (as well as CoD)
There will probably be a resurgence of popularity in Quake 1/2 when the crappy CRAPCUNTS game comes out the same way Doom 1/2 came back after nuDoom dropped.
>>344704885
quake is simply much harder to mod
>>344704885
...abandoned in WHAT way exactly?
For starters, Quake was "replaced" by its sequels, and also got a heavy weight competitor from Unreal.
Then the era of "arena shooters" came to end, and kinda faded out of fashion.
If we only look at the SP elements, then Quake was a quite big disappointment even back in the days. All those major plans ID had for it never came to be (the game was meant to be a huge, open RPG game, with fancy AI for NPCs, and tons of lore), and visually the game just wasn't as catchy as DooM. Quake was literally the first Brown shooter out there.
Doom is child's play to make maps for.
>>344705468
>For starters, Quake was "replaced" by its sequels, and also got a heavy weight competitor from Unreal.
...AND Half-Life, to which majority of big Quake mods were "ported" to.
Seriously, Quake was too little, too late, when it finally arrived. Only its legacy survived, in form of its tech and gaming phenomenons, like the MP features, big mods, and machinima.
>>344704885
There are plenty of custom quake maps that are great.
>>344705949
>Seriously, Quake was too little, too late
The game was a coding masterpiece and revolutionary to the point that it took 2 years for other developers to catch up to it. How is this too little too late?
>>344705281
>Knee Deep in the Dead/On the Shores of Hell are easily better-designed levels than anything in Quake
Absolutely not. Maybe they're better visually, or they have the added variety of open areas (even though Doom sucks at it without the expanded bestiary from Doom II) but they have shit flow compared to Quake 1 levels. Doom E1 levels are okay because they're very simple and short and Romero is just good at what he does, but the episode 2 levels are full of lengthy backtracking and branching paths that just lead you into a locked door, like "oops, wrong guess, go back and into the other way then come back".
The 3D nature of the Quake maps allow for more freedom in the way different parts of the map connect together and the level designers took advantage of that to make levels with minimal backtracking. They just flow extremely well that there's always an even flow of enemies and that you don't ever need a map to know where to go next.
>>344704885
Doom is easier to mod. That's why it won't die. Until kids start learning how to 3d model well from birth, there will never be a game as long lived as Doom.
>1996 hear about this new game called quake
>it's supposed to have amazing new 3D graphics
>13 year old me spends all day downloading the demo from aol games
>the graphics seem worse than duke3d and the game is less fun
Quake 1>Doom
>>344706356Quake 2 > Quake 1
>>344706403
DELETE THIS
>>344706135
>How is this too little too late?
like said, only its under-hood tech was fancy. The actual GAME itself was very underwhelming, no matter that it pushed the polygonal games slightly forward in the industry.
Even in 96, reviewers were complaining about the sheer lack of environmental interaction and the overall bland art-style and maps of Quake. The smaller enemy mobs compared to the 2.5D shooters didn't help either.
The game's almost a total catastrophe if you base it to the ambitious plans ID had for Quake originally. They already had the early ideas spelled out in 1992!
>>344706316
Well you know what they say about kids being dumb.
>>344705281
Doom turned to shit after Knee Deep. Everything following it either tried to be a puzzle or threw endless enemies at you for the purpose of making it feel "difficult". Doom 2 did what those episodes did but better in every way.
>>344706630
I was even aware of the differences between 2.5d and quake graphics but it didnt change the fact that quake 1 was dull
>>344706498
Quake still has the best art style of game. There has yet to be a Cthulhu mythos themed medieval horror aesthetic made in any game since Quake, or even any close to how original the design of Quake was. I have hopes for Scorn.
>>344706839
Until you played it on 3DFX hardware!
>>344706630
What do they say about kids being dumb?
>>344706952
>Quake still has the best art style of game.
>best art style
>even more brown and grey than Quake 2 which was set in a robot factory
>>344707009
>tfw ati 3D RAGE
>>344706356
Quake 1 > Doom 1 > Doom 64 > Doom 2 > Quake 2 > Doom 4 > Quake 4 > Doom 3
>>344706839
Who cares if it looked dull? Not everything has to be a colorful superhappyfuntime, it aimed for a certain art style and did a great job with it considering the technology available.
idk dude, arena shooters are mostly fucking dead which pisses me off. i played all the quakes and dooms and heretic/hexen and blood and unreal and all that and they are still my favorite. doom3 was ok i guess but a totally different game. unreal 2 was less good than the first but it was ok. ut3 blew ass it was so fucking alow and had vehicles for no reason. ut4 is good though back to the roots
why does hexen get no love? id kill for an actual good continuation of the series without retarded quicktime events and glory kills and shit. i know it could be cool
>>344707124
No it was bland and boring and completely generic
Didn't even have strippers or a toilet you could flush
>>344706630
Not exactly a valid argument in this point.
Doom and Douk do look a lot more pleasing and detailed, aesthetically and design-wise, than Quake's wobbly, brown and grey triangle batches.
It wasn't before N64 and Mario 64 that I started actually getting excited of polygons, and only at the beginning of 6th generation did they start to be in actually presentable, easy to look at state.
>>344706952
>Quake still has the best art style of game.
That has nothing to do with the Cthulhu mythos.
The idea is neat, and sure the color palette supports this, but the tech was still way too primitive to make it actually impressive.
>>344707214
>Didn't even have strippers or a toilet you could flush
And here comes the false flagging.
>>344707074
>criticizing gothic style direction
I wouldn't have it any other way. Quake 2 is actually dull because it looks just bland and even the lighting doesn't save it while in Quake they were going for a strong, particular atmosphere.
>>344707189
Well the Heretic/Hexen series already got an actual ending, what with all the Serpent Riders being killed.
I haven't played quake in over a decade, nothing about was memorable whatsoever.
>>344707398
And they failed because the tech wasn't ready yet
Is DOOM worth getting for £19?
I hear that the SP is great.
Is the Snapmap and/or MP fun enough to add replayability?
>>344707430
i know :(
maybe prequels or something... or a similar flavor
>>344707561
No.
And I hated the SP too. It wasn't some revolutionary savior game, it was just a bit prettier Devil's Daggers clone, with more padding in between.
MP and Snapmap are both shit. Everyone agrees.
>>344707430
Didn't Heretic 2 STILL somehow happen despite all the Serpent Riders being destroyed in Hexen 2/Portal of Praevus?
>>344704885
Doom is easier to mod, and that's all there is to it.
SP Quake is just as fun as SP Doom and MP Quake set the standard for multiplayer FPS.
>>344707561
it's kinda forgettable 6/10 game. Nothing exactly terrible (besides the MP), but it just isn't that great either. The gameplay in nutshell:
Corridor > fight arena > corridor > fight arena.
You literally alterate between "finding" a key / switch, and watching a pre-canned demon punching animations. There's no regenerating health, though as the enemies explode into HP pickups like meaty Pinatas, your health does kinda keep regenerating anyway.
Oh, and all your stats and guns suck ass without upgrades. And there's 3 different upgrade trees / menus.
>>344707561
Its pretty good, dont listen to the salty nostalgiafags
>>344707797
I don't understand why so many people praise this game when it has basically regenerating health disguised inside enemies. They all explode like pinatas and shower you with health and ammo. Not to mention it's yet again another Painkiller style "now you're locked inside a room, go fight the enemies so you can progress further" thing that I hate. People lie when they say this is oldschool. They said the same thing about Shadow Warrior reboot and it had exactly the same type of shit.
>>344707797
>it was just a bit prettier Devil's Daggers clone
What?
Ridiculous, expand upon this statement.
>>344707561
It's worth that price for the SP I'd say.
>>344708428
yeah, thats what I thought myself.
I already saw some of that shit coming from the first reveal trailers, but I didn't expect the game to be THAT "arena" centric and limited.
>>344708504
>Ridiculous, expand upon this statement.
In DD, you do nothing but run around in an "arena" of sorts, shooting spawning demons, slowly getting stronger.
You literally do the same in D44M, with the exception of there being these corridors you need to run through between the arenas, with some more or less forced story exposition scenes.
If that's your cup of tea, enjoy!
If you however were expecting some semi-open, circular maps to explore, with enemies actually pre-existing in set posititions, then you are going to be disappointed. The game literally cannot show more than around a dozen foes on screen at once!
>>344704885
> Imagine the shit you could do with the engine and 3D environment itself, mapping and mods.
Quake is MUCH harder to map and mod for than DOOM, because Quake's mapping, bsp, and lighting code are cobbled together shitheaps kept alive by duct tape and dreams.
True, most of DOOM's code is also a cobbled together shitheap kept alive by dreams and duct tape. But its map parser is robust, and making maps for it is piss easy.
If you've ever had Forge or Hammer bitch at you for not aligning your derps with your herps, Quake 1 is twice as bad. DOOM, on the other hand, will merrily compile your map and give you hall of mirror style eyerape.
>>344708721
So you're saying it's absolutely nothing like Devil Dagger aside from the first person perspective?
It's certainly not a 'clone', I doubt DOOM's team played it let alone attempted to mimmick it.
I have never abandoned Quake. It is more alive then you think. There was a new official episode just a couple weeks ago for Christ sake.
Quake will always by my favorite of those two.
>>344709146
>So you're saying it's absolutely nothing like Devil Dagger aside from the first person perspective?
No. I'm actually, literally stating the very opposite of what you are claiming.
>It's certainly not a 'clone', I doubt DOOM's team played it let alone attempted to mimmick it.
Just like Duke Nukem 3D might not be a "Doom clone", it definitely was called one.
True, D44M has much more in common with the modern PainKiller-clones, like Hard Reset and SW2013. Devil's Daggers does kind of belong to this "sub genre" too, however it ditches the exploration segments altogether, turning it into pretty traditional wave-survival game.
But seriously, was I the only one who kept wondering WHY every single D4 review and general gameplay footage appeared to show one of the few exactly same locations, over and over again? Before I played it myself and realized that its because you spend most of the game in those tiny combat rooms?
>>344708721
>enemies actually pre-existing in set posititions
Isn't it more interesting if they're not? If they were spawned in the same places every time, maybe you'd be complaining that it wasn't dynamic enough and see that as a fault too.
>>344708002
The story was absolute shit but yes, it did.
Portal of Praevus was much better about it. The Riders were still relevant but they weren't the main villains this time around. It also gave us the Demoness, Eidolon's daughter/creation who actually disliked the idea of her master being controlled by another and would rather he just be dead than a puppet. I liked that.
>>344708428
this board is full of beta nu-males, go figure.
>>344709478
>Isn't it more interesting if they're not?
nope. It just makes the maps empty and barren, and ensures there's no actual big mobs at any point. There's also obviously no using the environment and tactically retreating from bigger foes in order to find better location to take them on.
>maybe you'd be complaining that it wasn't dynamic enough and see that as a fault too.
Nope. Exactly the opposite would be the case.
I actually replayed original Doom after D4 came out, just to wash out the bad taste, and it was way better and more atmospheric experience than I even recalled. I also happened to play and finish Blood for the first time last winter, and it was simply awesome experience. If anything, THAT would be the blueprints how to make a more modern, more "3D" Doom game.
>>344705281
>3. Doom was much more moddable, so people were making content sooner and longer
Not even close, Quake is much easier and more enjoyable to mod and make maps for. It even has its own scripting language, Cquake.
>>344707214
>Quake
>generic
Aside from Blood, how many Lovecraftian gothic horror-themed first person shooters can you name?
>>344709719
Quake has everything in "real" 3D.
Doom and even fucking Wolfenstein 3D are still popular, because of the 2D nature, and the fact that you can use MS Paint to do graphics if you lack better tools.
Sometimes, more restrictions sparks more innovation, as it's fun to try and bend the rules.
>>344709831
>Blood
>Lovecraftian
>>344707430
Make new games with new plots and stuff
>>344709831
Call Of Cthulhu
>>344709885
it has a crazy cult, some dimensional traveling, and fish men.
doom had much, MUCH easier modding. I made doom levels back in the day
doom was the best game in the world for a much longer time than quake
doom had a much better visual style, though I definitely think fondly on quake 1's gothic style
doom had literally ten times better gameplay
revenants, imps, pinkies, and shotgun guys are some of the best monsters ever made in a game, quake's monsters are comical or complete shit
doom had fast movement
doom didn't create and perpetuate the absolute DOGSHIT rocket launcher that for some reason still appears in TF2. The problem with this weapon is that it has no downsides at all, it's literally impossible to kill yourself with it because it doesn't do full damage to the player. No risk=no excitement, no gameplay
I'm sure there are more reasons, this is just my first 2 minutes of thinking
>>344707561
Play the demo and see for yourself.
>>344705949
>Seriously, Quake was too little, too late, when it finally arrived.
I think you have the dates confused there, faghat. There was absolutely nothing like quake when it came out. Its main competitor was DN3D.
>>344710050
Cults, Slavic gods/devils, and fish monsters that are probably just Creature from the Black Lagoon-esque references do not make a Lovecraftian setting.
>>344710216
Demo is shit though dude, it's only the first level and you only have two weapons. The demo should of had Foundry as the level included.
>>344707124
>Quake 2 > Doom 4
No.
>>344710304
Oh, it was shit alright.
>>344709462
>No. I'm actually, literally stating the very opposite of what you are claiming.
You said
>You literally do the same in D44M
>Except [many major features that make it completely different]
>LITERALLY
>Just like Duke Nukem 3D might not be a "Doom clone", it definitely was called one.
Yeah because Doom was a genre-changing title, ID didn't fucking base DOOM4 off Devil Daggers.
>>344704885
Because Quake 2 superseded it entirely?
>>344710118
>revenants, imps, pinkies, and shotgun guys are some of the best monsters ever made in a game, quake's monsters are comical or complete shit
Nothing in Doom comes close to being as interesting to fight as Shamblers or Ogres
>>344705949
you seem like a really newfaggy person
halflife and doom had very little overlap, chronologically, mod-wise, or playerbase
the half-life shiiters that came along had very little connection to the deathmatch players that played quake, they just jacked off to linear single player fps in a realistic environment with no visual theme or style
>>344710484
There's nothing interesting about Shamblers. They're like a Cyberdemon with a hitscan attack, ie bullshit.
>>344710565
>he doesn't know how to do the Shambler dance
>>344707189
>UT3 had vehicles for no fucking reason
Stop eating paint you fucking faggot
>>344710484
'bait' usually gets used as a way to dismiss a post, but that is actually bait. you didn't even have to force shamblers into their melee attacks, since they almost always appear in areas with corners and walls
ogres are throw grenade? you never had to approach them so the chainsaw was just for the initial scare
but I guess you got your response
Quake did a great job making an uncomfortable and overwhelming atmosphere. Of course that means I'm less inclined to want to return to it the same way I would with Doom.
hopefully quake champions plays like quake in multiplayer and not a shit heap like doom mp
Does QuakeWorld still have players? I know that you can jump on Zandronum and Zdaemon and find plenty of doom 2 servers nowadays
>>344710937
DOOM had loadouts
Quake Champions has "heros"/classes
id software does not want to make arena shooters anymore
>>344710937
it will have strafe and rocketjumping and weapon/health pickups but that ability shit is worrying
Quake was more notorious for it's multiplayer, and Quake 3 surpassed it in every way.
Meanwhile, Doom's single player is yet to be surpassed and probably never will.
>>344706237
>episode 2 levels are full of lengthy backtracking and branching paths that just lead you into a locked door, like "oops, wrong guess, go back and into the other way then come back
Blame Tom Hall
