What's the point of playing a JRPG on a high difficulty instead of easy difficulty if the only thing that will change is how long you will spend killing the same enemies over and over again?
Or even better, what's the point of even playing a JRPG if what really matters in these kind of games is the history? You can just watch the cutscenes on Youtube and you will save 50 hours of your shitty life that could be used for a useful thing like getting a fucking job.
Sometimes you just gotta kill lots of things.
Good JRPGs have quite a bit of depth to the combat and are designed to be beatable without any random battles if you can figure out the optimal tactic for each situation. Random battles exist for retards who don't like gameplay or enjoy mindless tedium.
People play JRPGs because they offer enjoyable gameplay and may have interesting settings, stories, characters, etc. whereas working is generally not enjoyable.
>>344097152
If you grind in JRPGs you're playing them wrong.
You're meant to always go to your next objective and just fight the only random battles you meet on the way, without actually looking for them to grind. You've also got the flee option in most of them for a reason, as again, you're only supposed to do a couple of them every time on your way to the objective.
By grinding and overleveling you make next part of the game trivial and braindead.
Honestly threads like this just further prove that people who complain about JRPGs don't know how to play them.
>>344097152
Why play any video game or even get a job when nothing really matters and we'll all be dead one day and the universe as we know it will cease to exist along with all our cheevos?
People enjoy what they enjoy.
>What's the point of playing a JRPG on a high difficulty instead of easy difficulty if the only thing that will change is how long you will spend killing the same enemies over and over again?
All the JRPGs I consider good don't have a hard mode. The game itself is already balanced. Most people actually make the games much harder than they need to be by ignoring the mechanics of the game and just rushing to the next story event. Therein lies the secret of what makes it worth playing a (good) JRPG.
>Or even better, what's the point of even playing a JRPG if what really matters in these kind of games is the history? You can just watch the cutscenes on Youtube and you will save 50 hours of your shitty life that could be used for a useful thing like getting a fucking job.
What's the point in playing a game at all?
>>344098254
>designed to be beatable without any random battles if you can figure out the optimal tactic for each situation
any examples?
>>344097152
>You can just watch the cutscenes on Youtube
That doesn't give you the freedom to wander about as you choose, explore as you choose, discover on your own, or find things out. It's just watching a bunch of cutscenes, which will frequently leave out important or critical information that you find through text dialogue or discover some other manner.
Also, a good RPG will make the battles meaningful in some way. Some places will be gold-rich, some places exp-rich, some places with many dangerous encounters, and some places a respite. You can't get the sense of this just by watching a few cutscenes.
Then again, it sounds like you are playing too many shit JRPGs.
>>344101727
Bravely Default is completely beatable without random encounters or exp gain
Grinding in any halfway modern JRPG is a failsafe so that bad players and children can beat the game. As an experienced video game player it should not be your go-to strategy. You're robbing yourself of the satisfaction of figuring out a better tactic and wasting your own time.
>>344097152
Some games are balanced for Hard Mode. For example, FFIV is way more satisfying on Hard Type than Easy Type, and it doesn't even require much grinding.
>>344102045
>and it doesn't even require much grinding.
The DS remake requires some grinding. Mostly going up the tower of Zot the first time and and the final dungeon on the moon. I enjoyed the challenge, but it would easily be too much for most people.
Its also kind of annoying since the random spawns in the final dungeon are harder than Zeromus. So you go through all that effort surviving undead dragons and red dragons only to kill Zeromus with the power of 'love and friendship!'
WRPG > JRPG
Prove me wrong faggots.
>>344103927
Define WRPG and JRPG
>>344104021
Why are there so many passive aggressive kids on 4chan these days?
You know what a fucking wrpg and a JRPG is you faggot
>>344103927
good game > shit game
Prove me wrong, faggot.
>>344102045
>>344103684
Very very few JRPGs require grinding, and none of them are FF titles.
In fact I can't think of any besides Dragon Quest 1 and the first 15 minutes of Phantasy Star 1.
>>344104154
Not him. But I'm sure he's asking because so many people who make such blanket statements don't seem to realize what a WRPG or JRPG even are.
>>344097152
First of all, not many RPGs have difficulty levels.
Second, the gameplay is FUN and raising the difficulty makes the challenge harder, which is much more fun than just plowing through every enemy in the game (given the game isn't shit and the combat is good).
Secondly, if you spend every second of your life thinking you could be doing much more productive things: DON'T. Your life will never amount to anything or mean anything in the long run of the universe, so just have fun.
>>344104481
>raising the difficulty makes the challenge harder, which is much more fun
Nah, fuck you. Nocturne's hard mode is just tedious, not difficult.
>>344104154
I'm still waiting.
>>344104653
Well, that depends on the game. Some higher difficulties in games are absolute shit, like just raising the HP of the enemies to make the battles longer, without changing the strategy of the enemy. That's just shit.
>>344104361
FFIII and IV require at least a little extra leveling for the final dungeons. Unless you're a wizard who can get past all the OHKO moves and triple attack enemies.
Aside from those though, the only grinding required in FF games is to do extra content like maxing Materia, getting ultimate weapons or beating extra bosses. Which is why I usually end up quitting FF games before the end. Grinding is not worth it just to beat an optional boss or get a black chocobo.
>>344105040
No they don't. As long as you don't actively run from most encounters, you'll be fine.
>>344104653
It really depends if more difficulty makes the game more fun.
If higher difficulty makes you have to think about what you do next, forces you to try out different mechanics and adds things like risk verses reward then its probably good that its more difficult.
If the game just takes more time because everything has higher HP then its probably bad difficulty.
>>344097152
A lot of Hard modes in games just increase enemy HP and damage dealt. This isn't exclusive to JRPG's.
>>344105172
I never ran from any encounters in either game. Still needed to level because the enemies go from having 10,000 HP and dealing 200 damage a turn to habing 80,000 HP and dealing 2000-3000 damage a turn. There's no gradual shift. Enemies just get 60% stronger by literally walking into the Temple of the Ancients or the moon's core. And the weapons you get to overtake this huge shift in damage/HP are found in the dungeons themselves.
I think you're remembering the games wrong. Either that or you didn't play the DS remakes.
>>344104953
I don't believe raising HP and enemy damage is entirely a sin as long as it doesn't go into stupid territory. Because of increased HP or defenses, you need to pace yourself better so you don't run out of resources, and increased enemy damage means buffs could end up being more valuable than on a lower difficulty. I'd still appreciate more changes than just that though.
>>344104361
Final Fantasy 1 certainly requires grinding. Have fun making it through the Swamp Cave right after getting the ship from the pirates, without grinding around Elfland a bit. I'm not sure if FF2 would "normally" require grinding, giving how strange it works; I ended up grinding a bit for absurd HP/some stats towards the beginning and breezed through the rest of the game. FF3 was a grindfest, from what I hear. FF4 had a few points, namely Tower of Zot, but was fairly smooth.
Final Fantasy 6 was probably the first one which had a smooth, no-grind-required XP curve throughout the whole game.
>I can't think of any besides Dragon Quest 1 and the first 15 minutes of Phantasy Star 1.
Did you not play the other Dragon Quest or Phantasy Star titles?
>>344105040
I don't recall any triple attack enemies in Final Fantasy 4, and the only "OHKO" enemies were things which just did so much damage that they could kill your characters in a few hits.
>>344106242
>I don't recall any triple attack enemies in Final Fantasy 4
They're in the Temple of the Ancients in FFIII. As well as the triple attack enemies in the same dungeon. FFIV had enemies with huge HP and damage however. As I said above, the random spawns when you open a chest are harder than Zeromus. Which is a problem since the weapons you need to fight those random mini boss battles are in the chest that triggers them.
>>344105901
>Enemies just get 60% stronger by literally walking into the Temple of the Ancients or the moon's core
This is one of the few times I'd suggest running from encounters. No need to fight a dozen behemoths before the final boss.
>>344106242
FF1 doesn't require any grinding. No, you don't need to outfit your party with the best gear as soon as it's available, and no, you don't have to kill every single enemy. Swamp Cave is full of encounters you're better off ignoring.
>Did you not play the other Dragon Quest or Phantasy Star titles?
No Dragon Quest, but even Phantasy Star doesn't require any grinding.
>>344101970
Citation needed.
>>344097152
Whats the point of having a game if there's zero difficulty and you only play for story?
Just read a book, asshole.
What's the point of reading a book when they take longer than watching a movie?
Just watch a movie, asshole.
>>344107097
>He can't speed read
>>344106849
>FF1 doesn't require any grinding.
>trying to take out the Wizards or the Dark Elf without leveling up
>trying to run through the Ice Cave without proper prep
>trying to run through the rivers and clear the Volcano if you were crazy enough to do that first
Mind you, grinding isn't much necessary beyond that, although that's thanks to getting the White Cape/White Cap and being able to heal the whole party with two people every turn for free.
Dragon Quest 2 had some grinding concerns. Not as bad as DQ1, but you'd still find yourself needing to level up to get through areas. Later DQ titles were far better at this, and generally didn't require grinding - although some areas might encourage it. Phantasy Star 2 would casually chew your ass apart if you ran off to the first warehouse without gaining a few levels on Nei and equipping some bar weapons for her. I'll admit I don't recall too much grinding required past that, although the game was sluggish and frequently rather dull.
>>344097152
>picking easy mode
grinding really isnt something you see in RPGs past 2000 unless you are a retard. Hard mode however is just more grinding in most JRPGs with that one Valkyrie game being the exception
>>344107718
I've done all of that FF1 stuff in the PS1 version without any grinding. It's not hard.
>Phantasy Star 2 would casually chew your ass apart if you ran off to the first warehouse without gaining a few levels on Nei and equipping some bar weapons for her.
First off, you have enough money by default to buy two bars for Nei and an extra dagger for Rolf. Attempting the first dungeon without Rudo is suicide regardless of how much you grind, and the trip from the first town to the second nets you enough money to buy another pair of daggers for Rudo and a level or two for Nei and Rolf. You might be expected to regularly exit dungeons to resupply because their so large and confusing, but that's not grinding.
>>344097152
Fuck, i feel the same. I didn't went deep into the genre, but every rpg i played was the same "spam, spam spam health potion" gameplay. I just want to have to really think on the best strategy to defeat my opponent. Can someone recommend me a good rpg with good gameplay?; i wanted to try FF Tactics and Might and magic series, are they good?, or do they have the same spam mechanics?
>>344107718
Getting the true ending was a fucking chore in DQ8.
>>344104315
Deadly Premonition. So bad it's good.
>>344104653
You wot, enemies die at about the same speed on hard mode, the only thing that's a pain in the ass is that everything costs 3 times as much which is fucking murder on your pockets if you want Masakados.
>>344108253
>I've done all of that FF1 stuff in the PS1 version without any grinding. It's not hard.
Ah, that makes sense. Final Fantasy Origins had the difficulty smoothed out and gave you a MP system, rather than the old spell levels system, which made magic tremendously stronger and more useful. I actually never played FF1 outside the original NES version, but the PS1 version did take things a lot easier on you.
>You might be expected to regularly exit dungeons to resupply because their so large and confusing, but that's not grinding.
I guess that does depend a bit on the definition, and has a few strange implications. If you already know where to go or get "lucky", do you end up underleveled at the dungeon boss or is that the expected level?
I will agree, most of these older games would assume that you'd leave the dungeon a few times and/or wander around an area lost, thus gaining levels and gold that way. Most newer JRPGs assume that you will be making one trip through a dungeon, and so give it enough challenge (and enough save points inside) to generally make it possible. I would point out that the old method does have a problem - if you are unusually good at making it through the dungeon, or just know where to go, you do end up underleveled towards the end compared to where a player "should" be.
>>344106849
>This is one of the few times I'd suggest running from encounters. No need to fight a dozen behemoths before the final boss.
When I played it the second time, I used the augment that lets you avoid encounters. Still, it points out a major imbalance in the game if you have to do that.
>>344101727
Almost every single Final Fantasy can be beaten even if you run from every single random encounter.
There's even people and guides dedicated to doing exactly that.
>>344108867
>everything costs 3 times as much
That's where the tedium comes from.
>>344109120
You're thinking of the GBA/PSP ports. The Origins release is essentially a prettier NES version with major bug fixes and a few optional quality of life improvements.
If you already know where to go, then you've played the game before and won't have any trouble. It's impossible to get lucky and take the shortest route through every dungeon. Not to mention that PS2 only has three major bosses in the entire game.
>>344103684
>DS
I still can't fucking beat that stupid final boss. I just don't have the patience to walk all the way down there, listen to muh power of friendship, which is unskippable, and then just get Big Banged twice in a row.
How the fuck do I beat this fag?
>>344109770
Level up, get better gear or cheese him by timing your jumps with Kain to make him invincible.
>I don't like grinding
OH BOY HAVE I GOT THE GAME FOR YOU
>>344097152
I have a fucking job. I play games while at work, too. On my 3DS and on my VITA. I even brought in my original Game Boy once just to screw with people.
>>344108446
The Tactics Ogre games have some pretty good gameplay. They're a SRPG much like Final Fantasy Tactics, but with facing mattering a lot and choosing equipment/spells being important. The biggest concern is that some jobs and stats are overpowered. If you want something in the same genre, Shining Force 1/2/3 are some really good titles with a likeable cast, decent story running through it, and some challenging fights.
Grandia is a very good "standard" JRPG combat system - by that, I mean it's wandering around an area and getting into fights with enemies. Fights take place in a 3D area, movement and timing matters - A LOT, if you're trying to cancel or counter attacks - and a great story. The only concern is that, replaying them, spinning the 3D camera in the overworld can get annoying. Very good series otherwise.
WRPGs tend not to have very good combat systems. Most of their combat tends to focus just on being simple, with the challenge being finding your way around and figuring out what to do. That said, combat is not just "spam, spam health potion" either, typically because health potions are normally a lot more rare - either from expense or from carrying weight. Wizardry 7 and/or Wizardry 8 would be my first recommendations, since they give you a large world to run around and explore, different NPC creatures to talk to and deal/insult/steal from. There also aren't any inns, so it's save anywhere and sleeping out in the wild - and hope most of your party isn't asleep if you get an ambush.
Ultima is really good as well. Ultima 4-6 has some very interesting "Your actions as a player matter" moments, with the later games following up on conclusions from U4. Ultima 7 is a more typical RPG, although I've not played that one myself. I haven't played the Might & Magic series, so no opinion there.
>>344110023
> I even brought in my original Game Boy once just to screw with people.
lol I saw one of dose on dis showHoly fuck, ABC has a lot more swearing nowadays
>>344110221
only a matter of time before we get full frontal, gore and F-bombs on satellite TV.
>>344103927
only when SRPGs are involved
>>344101727
I shouldn't have to list anything since this applies to the majority of JRPGs, but fine. Radiant Historia is one example I played recently where 'random' battles are easily avoidable and the game is well balanced for a player who does not fight any at all.
>>344110221
i want that asian milf so bad
even though i'm older than her by 2 years
>>344110652
You mean like JA2? What other good western "SRPGs" are there?
>>344109770
You mean Zeromus? I found his battle to be easy. He has a very obvious pattern. And like most things in FFIV, he can be slowed. I would think that if you're having that much trouble, you might not have Omnicast on Rosa. For every battle on the moon, you should be using Omnicast to cast Blink, Shell and Protect on everyone. if you have Omnicast, you don't really need much else. You can win even by just spamming attack.
Problem is, Omnicast is one of those missable augments.
>>344110025
>WRPGs tend not to have very good combat systems. Most of their combat tends to focus just on being simple, with the challenge being finding your way around and figuring out what to do.
I kinda liked Doom RPG 2 because it was so simple. In a way, it's almost like taking a few aspects of a roguelike and putting them in a game made by a person instead of one that's "procedurally-generated" lameness. I never played the first or Wolfenstein RPG, so I can't comment on those. What a shame.
>There also aren't any inns, so it's save anywhere and sleeping out in the wild - and hope most of your party isn't asleep if you get an ambush.
Jesus Christ, how horrifying.
>>344097152
> YouTube
Spot the millennial
>>344110025
Gotta agree with you and Grandia. Battle system is designed to ensure you time your attacks to keep the opponent from attacking (who are trying to do the same to you). Graphics are PS1-tier (Saturn is better in some respects, but the PS1 had better effects overall...and is in English). Story is about a kid who's just starting to grow hair on his chest and stomach wanting to be an Adventurer like his father was, and is just out to have a grand old time exploring and making fools of the local military (who really are tools).
"Saving The World" doesn't even factor into the story until about 75% of the way into the game.
Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre were made by many of the same devs as Final Fantasy Tactics, I think. The PSP game is severely awesome. Hell, even the N64 game is awesome. Never played the SNES or Playstation titles, and I own the GBA game but have yet to play it.
>>344097152
>Or even better, what's the point of even playing a JRPG if what really matters in these kind of games is the history?
babby retard opinion of babby who only played final fantasy disrcaded, this is the fastest way to identify an idiot who doesnt know shit about jrpgs.
>>344101727
Grandia, the first one. 2 is good but 3 is pretty much trash. You never really need to grind and there's no random encounters. The only issue is that magic levels with how much you use it and that's the only grinding really.
There's a redux that fixes this issue but I haven't played it myself.
http://grandiaredux.blogspot.com/
>>344111065
>The PSP game is severely awesome
You mean the game that can be summed up as "spam archers"? Why are you recommending that shit to someone that specifically didn't want spam shit?
>>344110704
>36
>still on /v/
Get out, Grandpa.for your own sake
>>344104361
Most decent JRPGs don't require grinding for the main story at least
There's often optional stuff like DQ8's postgame where bumping yourself up 5-10 levels (from beating the game around lv40 normally) is advisable though.
>>344101727
The Last Remnant punishes you for grinding.
>>344111450
you also forget that DQ5 and DQ8 mandate grinding for their first bosses
FF8 enemies/bosses scale to you, so leveling is completely optional. Most just get Enc-None from Diablo on disc 1 and be done with it outside of card hunting.
>>344104361
>Dragon Quest 1
Unless you play the original version but even this, DQI is easily passable without grinding at all
Literally the only DQ game that I had to grind (a real grind) was DQ2
>>344111610
>DQ8
You really only need to get Heal on Hero by the time you get to the boss, which is like level 4. You can hit that on your way just finding where the cave is the first time before you run back to heal up quick.
And the ghost house in DQ5? The only reason I can see you wanting to grind before that is if you want to kill the optional boss.
>enemies randomly spike in difficulty mid-battle if you grind too much
>some enemies have skills that do heavy damage to specific classes
>going all-out in some random encounters powers up a late-game boss
>status effects everywhere
>game is still easy if you understand the battle mechanics
name that GAME
>>344111969
>mid-battle
I'm lost here
>>344111969
The Last Remnant.
So what jrpgs are you guys playing at the moment? Right now I'm playing DQ4 NES on my psp. I played 4 on DS and loved it, actually my favorite DQ of the ones I played,but the translation and easy difficulty left me wanting more. Right now as surprised how much better the translation is. Other then stuff like the "house of healing" the translation seems pretty good. The difficulty is much better, I'm only in chapter 3 right now but I've gotten quite a few gameovers.
>>344111831
when I was in the ghost house It was impossible for me to kill the boss at my level. My melee did 0 damage and my fireballs couldnt kill him before the mana ran dry
>>344112386
Didn't mean to spoiler that, weird.
>>344112436
Hm, I didn't have any problem there. Maybe I spent longer checking out the overworld or something.
>>344112386
>I've gotten quite a few gameovers.
YOU SHOULD HAVE HIRED THE TWO BODYGUARDS, YOU SILLY CUNT
>>344112105
>>344112375Final Fantasy X-2
>>344112553
>playing as a jew
>giving money away for stuff you cant sell later
>>344112553
Nah I grinded for the sword of malice/cautery sword and Torneko is doing pretty good. Seeing him called Taloon is pretty weird.
>>344111610
>you also forget that DQ5 and DQ8 mandate grinding for their first bosses
>games give you a dozen free madicinal hers, free swords and etc if you actually bother to explore
>by exploring, you also gain the necessary levels
The problem isn't the game. The problem is you just rushing in a straight line to the boss. But whatever. With the remake of DQVIII coming up, they refill your HP/MP at level up. So you won't even have an excuse anymore. If you can't get through the opening dungeon with full HP and heal, you shouldn't even be playing DQ. Its too hard for you.
>>344112386
I'm replaying some Final Fantasy 4 at the moment for some nostalgia, this time on Steam. Just felt like revisiting it, and I've not played through the Steam version yet.
I have Bowser's Inside Story in my DS, although I've not touched it in a long time. I was going to get to one of the DQ games after that - I think I had DQ6 handy - but time keeps getting away from me.
>>344112783
>implying implications
If you go into a dungeon, time doesn't pass.
You can screw them over by having them fight, take damage, and die for you for an "endless" amount of time. Either way, you have extra damage being output, which is great whether or not you got the sword of malice because it saves time.
>>344112436
>My melee did 0 damage
Even if you only used your fists, you'd do at least 3-7 damage. Let alone with the club and copper sword doing 20+ damage.
You're full of shit.
>>344112386
Translation patch was finished some time ago. It's pretty ok, has that etrian odyssey feel to it. Not a dungeon crawler like EO though.
>>344098254
>Random battles exist for retards who don't like gameplay or enjoy mindless tedium.
Why so mad that other people enjoy things you dont?
>>344113264
I brought this up a while back.
I like the ideas and some gameplay aspects and concepts of the series, but after the first, they just got a lot lamer aesthetically and animations take FOREVER.
>>344113074
BiS is super good, definitely continue it anon.
>>344111474
That sounds cool. How do they do that?
Anything similar to mother 3's rhythm comboing? I really loved that.
Speaking of the mother series, or at least earthbound and mother 3, I like how like little grinding they have. Other then frank in earthbound and the barrier trio in mother 3 I never grinded in those. They're a bit too easy but I preffer that to grinding honestly.
>>344113490
Never played the other ones. Didn't even know about the series until the eng patch dropped. What were the other ones like?
>>344097152
I agree with you OP
>>344098254
>>344098984
You guys sound like scrubs desu senpai
If you're not taking advantage of every avenue the game gives you, then you're a scrub. You're putting self imposed rules on yourself for some fake superiority "muh honor."
If RPGs want to be challenging then they should be designed where grinding isn't available. If grinding continually makes you more powerful then the people doing so ARE playing the "right way"
>>344113975
Same as 2020, but some aspects got changed.
First was done by Mota, and I feel was a lot better aesthetically. 2020 onwards just look like a mess from a harujuku fashion school reject.
>>344114485
If a game has a difficulty select screen, is the easiest difficulty the "right" choice?
>>344115438
Shit argument.
>>344104481
>not forcing your own purpose onto the universe
stay pleb
>>344115834
Easy mode is easier and if you're not taking advantage of every avenue the game gives you, then you're a scrub. You're putting self imposed rules on yourself for some fake superiority "muh honor."
If games want to be challenging then they should be designed where easy mode isn't available. If choosing easy mode makes the game easier then the people doing so ARE playing the "right way"
If you don't agree, I'd like to hear why.
>>344116391
UH OH, looks like you're blowing that fresh David Sirlin fan the FUCK out!
It's so new to him, you can't blame him for confusing contests against other people who have access to the same tools and a singleplayer experience.
>>344114485
I know a guy who takes this retarded argument one step further: if you're not using things like Cheat Engine to speed things up/make things easier for yourself in a game, you're a scrub.
But yea, he's a retard.
>>344116391
>>344116973
Still a shit argument. The modes a different separately contained games. Grinding is always available in a poorly designed RPG. No one is decrying choosing easy mode over hard mode by saying it's the "Wrong way to play" either.
>>344117321
Cheat engine is using something outside of the design game to circumvent the design.
/v/ is so retarded.
>grinding in a jrpg
You're suppose to figure out what attacks and defense skills/spells will give you the best chance of winning. Grinding 5 hours and spamming attack is doing it the wrong way.
A game is designed to be played with your hands. /v/ comes in and says everyone is playing wrong if they aren't solely using their tongues.
>>344101727
Undertale
>>344118806
>not playing your games by blinking your eyes
>>344101970
How? Eventually you'll be doing like, 1 damage to the bosses. Even if you try and abuse something like minus strike, you would barely be doing any damage because you haven't leveled up at all.
>>344113704
Enemies level with you and do it better.
>>344097152
Casual confirmed.
I think we need to clarify the definition of grinding. Some people define it as the just running around in circles for hours until you level up. Others would say that battling even one enemy outside of the boss equals grinding.
Being against grinding is like being against training and practicing before playing a sport.
>>344098254
For me, random battles exist for the purpose of resource management and an endurance test. If I can safely traverse a dungeon and make it to the end, then I've succeeded, die and I have to start over. That's the challenge.
The problem is /v/ only knows one way to do dungeons, and that's to autistically grind, rather than just enjoy the experience and thrill of possibly dying during that next battle. I think this is because /v/ plays a lot of very easy RPGs, where mooks are little more than cannon fodder.
>>344119636
I say that grinding is being forced into repeating the same battle, over and over again. It could be because you require gold/XP in order to get to the next area. It could be because there are a ton of random enemy encounters. It could be because you are forced into the same battle repeatedly. But if you are forced into those fights, ones which you can competently beat but are forced to repeat them anyways, then it becomes grinding.
Not Grinding: a high encounter rate or highly dangerous encounters to signify a specific area as dangerous. The point is to highly a specific area as unusually dangerous or crawling with monsters, not to force a grind onto people.
Not Grinding: when the different encounters are distinctly different, either because the battle system makes the encounters different to fight or because the enemy composition in various areas is different, so you aren't fighting the same stuff all the time.
Not Grinding: voluntarily running around an area to build up extra levels/gold/items because the player wants to. Well, I guess it is actually grinding, but it's not the game forcing the player to grind.
>>344120003
Except grinding is way more repetitive and less involving. You go in circles and spam the attack button, heal when hp is low, and when you get low on mp/healing items go to the town and go to the inn/buy more healing items. Grinding is fine in games but it's the simplest shit in the world.
>>344120003
Except that training and practicing a sport gives you skills which can be used elsewhere, from endurance to flexibility to lifting. Grinding gives you exactly one thing: the ability to progress further in that individual game session. It won't even make you "better" at playing the game overall, as the grinding is erased if you choose to restart the game.
Hell, even if you "grind" or practice at jumping well in a Mario game, that skill can translate into the next Mario playthrough of the same game.
If battling gives you new strategies that can be applied to future encounters, then it was worth it.
Grinding for me is almost never about getting strong enough to beat enemies, its about unlocking more shit. I always over grind in any rpg with job systems or skill point character customization, just because I like being able to kit out my dudes. This does have the side effect of usually making them overpowered, but I'm too anxious to wait.
>>344117862
nuh-uh, you're the retard
In some games you have the option to lower the game's difficulty setting at any time, and in any case it's a choice available to the player just like grinding is. Grinding is just a tedious way of manually adjusting a game's difficulty.
If you played a game on ezmode and whine about the game being too easy, the battle system not being fully utilized, etc. then you will be called a retard. I didn't say anything was the "wrong way to play" but grinding and ezmode are both options in the game to appeal to a larger audience, while the game is balanced based on no grinding and the battle system should be evaluated under those conditions.
>>344121150
I wish more RPGs did the way Bravely Default does. Allow you to turn off leveling and just keep job leveling on. That way it can still be a challenge, and you'll have the choice of different abilities to utilize.
>>344118806
that analogy is nonsensical. you are implying the devs arent going to be super good at their own game and that they dont dumb it down for their consumers.
>>344101727
Breath of Fire 4
So /v/, what's a turn based game you consider to have a fun battle system?
>>344121752
>>344121752
Bravely Default
>>344121752
Etrian Odyssey.
>>344121752
DT-2
DW 1+2
DW 3
>>344120069
Yeah, that makes sense. A lot of games are designed that way (for random battles to wear down your party as you go through a dungeon). In some cases it's just a self-imposed challenge to ignore random battles. But other games have more of an emphasis on boss fights, and 'random battles' are just there for people who want to grind (more often avoidable enemies visible on the map).
In my opinion, an ideal RPG wouldn't rely on random battles even for wearing your party down. Rather than possibly getting fucked over by a randomly generated set of strong enemies, I'd prefer a series of mandatory, specifically balanced weak fights to wear you down as you go through the dungeon. This might reduce replay value, but it lets the developers know exactly how much exp and damage you should have taken so they can fine-tune the game's balance.
>>344098254
What are good jrpgs though? All I fancy is Grandia 2
>>344121346
If you can switch difficulties at any time the game is easy at all times.
If there is grinding in the game the game is easy at all times.
The problem is you've taken up a point of pride in beating RPGs with self-imposed limits, when to everyone else RPGs are casual bullshit.
>>344122024
The artstyle made me want to kill myself but Growlanser 4 was really good
>>344122174
>Growlanser 4
>He doesn't like pubes
Shame on you
>>344122024
As someone who doesn't like jrpgs
Dragon quest series
Mother series
Metal max retuns (only played that one, not sure on the other games in the series)
Basically any mario rpg other then sticker star
Those are jrpgs I find myself playing when I want a good jrpg. Typically I hate all the anime tropes that co
>>344122281
Meamt to say anime tropes that come with them.
>>344122276
this is your adopted brother for tonight. Remember he is of no blood relations
>>344122281
I don't care for the story/setting as much as I'm looking for any jrpgs with innovative combat like Grandia had
>>344123052
DQ and MOTHER have very simple but nice combat. Just well made quality games. Mother 3 has a system where you can do rhythm combos, if you like rhythm games you might like it.
Metal max has simple combat butbthe customization is where it excels. You get tanks that you are able to upgrade in various ways. Deciding how to upgrade your tanl properly is important, you have to consider things like weight and artillery. Story is neat nonexistent, basically you're a bounty hunter hunting mutants and criminals and that's basicially it.
Every mario rpg has active combat in some way. Typically it will invole timing your attacks and blocking enemy attacks but it varies depending on the series. Stories are ligjt hearted and goofy, very enjoyable.
Hope this helps.
>>344121994
> In some cases it's just a self-imposed challenge to ignore random battles.
I do this in some RPGs just because the leveling system is just too generous. Xenoblade being a prime example. I love the game but for God's sake, what a terrible decision to make sidequests so XP rich.
I tend to like a mix of resource management as well as the risk of possibly being killed by a random set of enemies. One reason is because it challenges me to think in more abstract ways. In Bravely Default for example, I found myself coming up with some rather creative ways to kill enemies thanks to the earth temple being so Goddamn ridiculously difficult.
What did youi think of the way Chrono Trigger did it? It's sort of similar to what you're alluding to.
>>344122096
>when to everyone else RPGs are casual bullshit.
People are playing RPGs all the time, they devote hours and hours of their lives to them. It's why WoW is so fucking popular. If it was considered casual shit then no one would devote chunks of their life to shit like DOTA and LoL.
>>344123052
Mana Khemia/Atelier Rorona Plus had a fairly good combat timing system. Like Grandia, you have a timing space shown, which is quite nice in deciding enemy priority. You might choose to focus on one enemy is a single fight, knowing that everyone can attack it once and kill it before it makes a move, while in another combat you might focus on an enemy which takes turns slower since you can clearly see your allies' turns are happening faster.
It's turn-based, though, so nothing as nice as the counter/cancel system in Grandia. On the other hand, the games focus on crafting, item gathering, and making specific products/specific goals with a set story progression, so you're doing something significantly different than a standard JRPG.
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter comes to mind as a different and unusual combat system. Might be worth checking out, at least.
>>344123628
>liking the chance to be killed by a random group of enemies
Famicom jrpgs and old school dungeon crawlers are for you my friend.
>>344123995
Depends on the Famicom RPG. To be honest, I'm too casual for the original Dragon Quest. I can handle something easier like FF1, but DQ1 kicked my ass three ways to Sunday. It was like every enemy was on steroids.
>>344123906
>Mana Khemia
Fucking loved that game. Some of the boss fights were pretty ridiculous.
>>344124125
You could try the remakes of I-II and III on sfc/snes. While not "easy" they are made more balanced and more forgiving. They're are always purists who will complain about you "not playing the true games" but ignore them, DQI and DQII on fc/nes are pretty bullshit.
>>344122096
I think I've figured out why your reasoning seems so retarded to me (and likely vice versa). I play games for enjoyment, and I get enjoyment from figuring out a JRPG's battle system in order to beat the game at the intended level on the hardest difficulty (same thing in any other genre). Whether it is considered 'casual' or not doesn't matter.
It seems like you play games for the sake of "pride", so it upsets you that casuals can beat games if they lower the difficulty setting or grind. But even then, I don't understand your logic. If someone credit feeds in an arcade game, does that matter? If the ending of the game is the same on hard and easy mode, does that matter? If the game records some sort of score / time / level, does that matter? I'm a bit curious how this mindset works.
>>344124554
A happy medium sounds good to me. I don't need an RPG to be unforgiving, just enough to challenge me.
Thanks for the advice man. I'll be sure to check out more FC/NES RPGs in the future.
>>344123628
>What did youi think of the way Chrono Trigger did it? It's sort of similar to what you're alluding to.
I suppose the idea was okay, but I ran from everything because the game was so easy and the game was so poorly balanced and the battle system was so bad. I'm thinking more along the lines of having mandatory, nonescapable battles and for enemies to be balanced based on your expected party strength.
>>344125010
The thing about not only retro jrpgs but any "hard" jrpg is that the "difficulty" is actually spending your spending ypur time grinding and not just dropping the game. Still in a lot of older jrpgs you definitely need to be more alert for bullshit, I tend to preffer them because of that.
>>344121752
Divinity Original Sin EE for WRPG
JRPG? I have to go with SMT series, you can actually do shit other than fight in enemy encounters
>>344122426
Try Radiant Historia, Tactics Ogre LUCT, Front Mission 1
Time to replay Golden Sun.
>>344125815
Conversation padding: the JRPG
>>344123052
Not sure if saturn emulators are any good, but Panzer Dragoon Saga has interesting combat if you can find a way to play it.
>>344123052
Give Valkyrie Profile a try at some point.
>>344125815
At least go play a good a good jrpg. Golden sun is interesting, that game should be studied. How something so mediocre could be made. Literally everything is so "average" about gs it feels weird
>>344126290
the djinn system is one of the better and more interesting battle/customization systems if you aren't strictly trying to cheese
>>344126290
It was the entry JRPG for it's time on the GBA.
>>344126290
Not really, Golden Sun has some clear strengths and weaknesses. The psynergy puzzles are good and the djinn allow for a lot of customization which makes the battle system good in theory. However, the complete lack of difficulty makes strategy minimal in battles and the writing is poor.
>>344126441
Yeah but today you have better opinions, on the gba alone you have mario and luigi super star saga, mother 3, and pokemon mystery dungeon red rescue team. Nostalgia is the only reason most care about GS.
>>344126806
>on the gba alone you have mario and luigi super star saga, mother 3, and pokemon mystery dungeon red rescue team.
Fuck those. Give me Fist of Mars, Boktai, and CIMA: The Enemy.
Xenogears and Lost Odyssey were probably the only JRPGs I played for it's story, had a great time with them despite many consider the gameplay to be average. I've heard that The Last Remnant punishes grinding or something along those lines and that it has a complicated battle system as well.
>>344101727
Any of the tales games.
