>intro sequence
>Bruce can't handle the loss of his parents
>runs away
>falls into a deep hole
>eventually his deepest fears actually help lift him towards the light, turning him into the Batman we know and love
>in the present
>Bruce witnesses deep loss once again, by losing a Robin and then watching an alien cause the death of thousands, including close friends and associates
>again, he can't cope with it, and runs away from the pain by turning to extreme methods and cruelty and falling into a pit of rage and cynicism, becoming a deranged, murdering version of the Batman we are used to
>eventually his biggest fear (the alien) helps him see how deep he has fallen, and shows him the light once again
>Batman is once again the hero we all expect him to be
Am I looking too much into it? Because I really do feel like this was intentional. We've all seen the Wayne's being murdered DOZENS of time, there was a reason it was in there.
>>67674205
I think you're spot on, and in fact I think there's a bit more going. In the fight with Superman, he says that only men can change the world, he's lost faith in any kind of salvation. In the intro he says the dream about ascending out of the pit is a lie, he's lost hope. Then like you said, Superman gives him some hope.
>>67674269
Yeah, a lot of people are saying the movie misses the point of Superman ("He's supposed to inspire people!") when the entire point of the ending is that it inspired a cynical veteran out of his depression and into actually believing that there are still good people out there, and we need them now more than ever.
>>67674205
Literally Batman continues to murder in the next scene after burying the hatchet with Superman.
Nope, you're not wrong about it at all.
This movie goes way over people's head. And then when you explain it to people they get angry because it means that they are dumb enough to not understand a superhero movie, then they get in denial.
>>67674340
He didn't switch 100%, but he was way less cruel and brutal.
He didn't outright kill any of the mooks, he didn't outright shoot the KGBeast in the fact, instead he simply shot the flamethrower canister, which exploded ONLY because the russian tried to fire it, and finally and most importantly, he resisted branding Lex at the very end, signifying he's done playing judge, jury and executioner.
He couldn't save his parents but he can save Clark's mother. The name was an epiphany. Clark was trying to save his mother and that made Bruce see him as a person and not a God.
>>67674340
He could have killed the guy who stabbed him, instead he just stabbed him back in the shoulder.
>>67674397
Exactly. I don't know why people make fun of that scene. Finding out your white whale, your obsession, the fucking thing you're sure you have to kill, not only has a HUMAN MOTHER, but her name is literally the same name as your OWN would make ANYTHING stop and think at least for a second, and that's all Bruce needs to realize what's really going on.
This wasn't a thing they made up for the movie, this is a thing that has been true for over 70 years and was rarely addressed, and I loved how they decided to play it out.
>>67674475
would make ANYONE stop and thnk, I mean, derp.
>I bet your parents told you you were special. My parents taught me something too, dying alone, in the gutter, for no reason at all. They taught me the world only makes sense when you force it to.
Holy shit...
>>67674528
Fuckin' A, Batman
>>67674528
Batman was genuinely scary in this movie.
I feel a lot of this film's hate is so ironic
After seeing the film and reading the discussion/interpretation, it seems obvious to me that Snyder is a baneposter
Seasoned baneposters will of course understand the symmetry to the devil and jesus and st peter in TDKR opening
In BvS we have the entire story of Jesus throughout the entire film with constant supporting themes of demons and gods and king arthur
Snyder even has a CIA opening scene and the entire film is big guys fighting each other
I'd even wager that Bane isn't in suicide squad cause snyder wants him for justice league
>Batnado
this was when I deducted the most points on my grading of the movie
>>67674528
And that's not even the uncut speech.
Here's the problem if you're going to do that with Batman then you need to establish how much of a toll robin's loss was. We should've had a standalone death in the family movie.
>>67674528
Why cant Snyder just let go of Watchmen
>>67674691
We will get one.
The thing that hurt the movie the most was the fact that it was made by a fan of the DC mythos for fans of the DC mythos. It expected way too much of its viewers. It expected you to come with the baggage of a cape comic reader, and not of a casual watch of cape flicks.
From a business perspective this was a horrible decision, but from an appreciator/fan perspective, this was incredibly bold and makes me like the film even more.
I can keep going back to the film knowing all I want to see is what I will see and that there won't be any scenes in there just to hold my hand and say "Look, this is Darkseid, you see? He's a big deal in this universe! Oh, and this? This was robin's. He died, and made this Bat fellow over hero quite sad!."
Those things which lacked detailed verbal exposition weren't there just to be funny little easter eggs, they were actually part of the plot and gave you extra information on the character's and their motivations if you knew what you were looking at.
>>67674789
such edge..
wow...
I think I need a bandage
>>67674205
I seriously hope that Batflecks independent film is a prequel where he's a more run of the mill Batman
it'd give his cruelty and appetite for death a million times more impact in this movie
>>67674789
because he failed in his adaptation. Any artist with a sonscience won't let go of a failure.
>>67674823
I never felt it was edgy. It made fun of edgy things, especially with that sub-plot of the pirate comic the black kid was reading.
>>67674892
>I never felt it was edgy. It made fun of edgy things
Do you even Alan Moore? Guy's the biggest edge master in comic books ever.
I love his work, but god damn he tries hard to shock his readers.
>>67674810
This
I've said it before, the film is a lot better for people who know the backstories
I'm not even a comic-book reader, but I watched the cartoons when I was younger, watched a couple of the films like the dark knight returns and generally know the background
So things like lex's motivation I already know it's cause he's jealous of superman
And when someone goes 'where was that explained?', I'll point them to the scene where he talks about knowledge and power and the paradox
And then I'll realise that I've filled in the blanks without noticing
But having said that, my gf knows nothing about the backstory - I'm pretty sure she didn't even see man of steel - and she also really enjoyed it
So dunno
>Am I looking too much into it?
No, that's how you learn what the story is. It's how you should watch movies.
>>67674823
Kill yourself :^)
>>67674823
>>67674892
Can we please stop with this meme?
Atheist existantialism, absurdism and nihilism are literally the cornerstone of all XXI century thought.
>>67674920
I've only ever read Watchmen and From Hell and I never thought either of them tried to be shocking in a serious manner, but maybe that's just me not getting it.
I mean come on, that bit where the guy tied the bloated corpses of his dead shipmates to the bottom of his raft to make it more buoyant wasn't meant to be hilarious?
>>67674205
>>eventually his deepest fears actually help lift him towards the light
That's not Batman.
>>67674328
if man of steel had zod throw superman into buildings and not the other way around it would have worked
When the director's cut is released I hope someone's makes an edit without all the JL cameos and the extended fights.
>>67675055
Zod was the one punching Kal into buildings. Watch the final battle again.
>>67674984
Only if you're an edgy atheist like yourself, friendo
>>67674984
>comparing the dialogue in watchmen to existentialist philosophers
wew lad
>>67675054
That's like the one consistent thing in all the interpretations of Batman.
>>67674810
reminder that most people liked the movie
only a small number of critics disliked it
This is the kind of thread that makes me glad I visit this board. Thank you guys
>>67675175
> implying you've ever read an existentialist philosopher
>>67674685
Jesus, how could they cut the fucking speech
>>67675454
What's the full speech? Where is it?
>>67674205
he, even the defenders of this crap came with better writting. pity you will never replace snyder and goyer.
>>67675497
I wouldn't know. Just out of cut content, people have been saying Batman's speech to Superman was one of them
>>67674810
I've never read the comics and I loved it. I think it gets across everything that's necessary.
>>67675433
>implying I don't study philosophy in university atm
>implying I'm not writing a philosophy essay in the background right now
>implying you know shit about me or philosophy
Get wrekt
If you think the dialogue in watchmen has any philosophical merit then you're clearly a basement dwelling retard who's never read anything close to what the existentialists said or how they said it
Next you're gonna tell me that Naruto can teach us a lot about ourselves and how to live our lives
>that scene with the slaves in the basement where you can see an out-of-focus batman in the corner
Legit spooky
>>67675175
Rorschach was a midget sonofabitch without studies. You cannot expect him to speak greek prose.
>>67675606
>>that scene with the slaves in the basement where you can see an out-of-focus batman in the corner
Wait what? You best not be joshing me..
>>67675526
did Batman kill or injure in this scene? I mean, he has the whole never kill meme but it's not really clear.
>>67675616
>everything sucks
>we're responsible for everything
>we're killing our kids
>fuck god
Yeah, any language aside, this is how an edgy highschooler talks
>>67674205
You're looking too much into it.
Remember, this film was directed by the same guy who thought "STOP INVINCIBLE SON" was a good idea.
>>67675563
>>67675433
>>67675175
>>67674984
lmao please stop
>>67675682
Say for a moment Batman has the strength and insane precision to squeeze ONE round out of squeezing the trigger of an M60, that amount of blood splatter tells me you better hope the EMTs are right outside.
>>67675711
Not really. Edgy teenagers just smoke weed, dress all in black, paint their finger nails, and draw Anarchy symbols all day
>>67674205
What did you expect from a Batman movie that shit on Superman.
>>67674789
He couldn't even do that right, either.
>>67675563
>implying only philosophers are philosophical
Enjoy welfare after graduating.
>>67675750
know how I know you're underaged?
>>67675811
know how I know you're completely retarded?
>ITT: edgy teenagers get triggered
>>67675631
Batman is hanging on the wall like Spider-Man behind the cop. One of the better scenes in this film.
>>67675563
Naruto teaches us that people that were born with a special gift and privilege (son of hokage, has the nine tailed fox, gets taught by literally the strongest ninjas in the world) are entitled and think their own hard work is the only reason for their success.
>Ben's Bat movie will have Robin and the Joker, explaning the suit displayed on the Batcave
>>67674810
>>67674923
Am I buying into shilling or jokes here or is this the honest reason it's getting the mixed reception? I'm starting to believe the latter.
A friend told me he didn't get BvS but the couple that dragged him to it loved it (they actually read comics, the fucking nerds). My housemate, whose never touched a comic book and didn't even watch MoS, hated it.
I've read more Batman than I'd admit off the Internet, so I think I'll go see it.
>>67676136
I sriously think its hatedness is, indeed, bases on that. Go watch it.
>>67676136
The honest reason why it's getting such a weird reception on /tv/ (even compared to other sites) is because it's full of symbolism and allegories
So when you read those dense baneposts ironically furiously analysing every word and scene of the opening of TDKR you laugh and play along
When you see the same for BvS, you assume it's trolling but it's not
That doesn't necessarily make it good, but a lot of people (mainly who haven't seen it) assume people must be meme'ing to talk about it in such a way
Beyond that, yes, having a general understanding of batman and the DC universe will fill in any gaps
>>67674205
You didn't break any new ground here OP. What you stated is pretty obvious, there is far more worth saying too.
I think a bigger problem how this went over everyone's head?
Lex Luthor behaving like The Joker is intentional. The entire point of the movie is to show that the Superman mythos belongs to no one and everyone at the same time. This is the historical baggage that Snyder is aware these characters carry: An endless barrage of fanboys and comics since the 30's, comparison to other iconic characters, everyone thinking they have the last word on how these characters act.
It compares Superman to Christ, Moby Dick, King Arthur, Zorro, JFK, etc. Batman is compared with Ahab and Charles F. Kane. It compares Doomsday with a fire spouting dragon, King Kong, a falling meteorite, a nuclear holocaust, etc. So naturally it does the same with Lex (Zuckerberg). There are many more comparisons with the Nolan trilogy. For instance, the Batmobile scene ends up in him running into Superman, while in the Nolan version he decides to spare the Joker on his motorcycle. The Gotham football team's uniform is the same color in both films. Lois Lane and Rachel are dropped from a skyscraper.
It's a deconstruction and analysis of the characters themselves.
The film thrives on these types of associations, like the red Jolly Rancher pushed into the senator's mouth - "it's cherry" - coming back as the blood dripped onto Zod's face, the red graffiti on Superman's monument and his slashed cheek, not to mention the nods to internet culture and memes. It's precisely this uncomfortable reevaluation and redemption of sugary pop imagery that drives the film. "Snyder intends to resolve the conflict between commerce and art," as Armond White notes. The basic thesis is that Superhero franchises are antithetical to what Superman actually stands for.
The fact that not a single character behaved the way fanboys expected just proves the point that all this was intentional.
>>67674205
>>67674269
>>67674328
Add to that the dialogue between Wayne and Alfred where they talk about Gotham and how few good people are left there. He also believes he lost the struggle for the city he loves so much.
>>67675996
Oh I thought you meant when the cops were in the basement, not when they went upstairs, i'm a dumbass
>>67674205
I don't mind them making batman and superman a bit more murdery. It's a more realistic take on the characters. Some enemies they just kill inadvertently or have little choice but to kill. Like I don't think anyone complained about them killing Doomsday.
I don't want them going full Punisher or anything, but as long as I see them making an effort in trying not to kill then that's good enough for me.
Like the big batman fight scene against all the goons. He blew up their guns and was fighting mostly with punching, batarangs, and a grappling hook. He disarmed a guy with a knife and stabbed him in the shoulder. He's definitely making an effort not to kill any of them. But in the heat of battle he killed a few like the guy with the grenade.
>>67676941
>Add to that the dialogue between Wayne and Alfred where they talk about Gotham
A lot of people are missing major aspects of that conversation and Batman's arc.
Zack even outright stated that Bruce knows Superman's flaw will be his morality. Bruce is afraid, of what will happen to Superman if he becomes just as disillusion as he is. He saw good people, fighting the fight, corrupted over this career (I do wonder if Jason Todd=Joker theory is true) and his biggest fear is what happens when it happens to Superman. A man with this much power, who causes this much collateral damage when doing good, what will happen when he actually wants to take vengeance upon someone?
Ironcailly, and Alfred tries to get to him, Burce is afraid of what will happen Superman becomes just like him, disillusion by the ineffectiveness of all his acts as they pile up over the years. He is so lost, he even states that killing Superman will be his legacy, rather everything else he has accomplished. It's pretty sad to see him fall so low.
And yes, the Martha scene is what shakes up, when he saw that Superman is not a god, but a man, just like him, and that he Bruce almost repeated the evil act that created him in the first place. He literally almost was devoured by the bat like in his dream before Superman inspired him to do better.
Fuck the plebs.
>>67674789
Why can't Batman writers just let go of The Dark Knight Returns?
>>67677273
Because it's the reason Batman is the way he is today.
One problem is that Bruce is afraid of superman because he can become corrupted and cause a lot of destruction.
And then during the MATHA scene, batman should realize that that's exactly what is happening, superman is being used to cause destruction, yet suddenly it's ok just because their mothers share the same name? If anything the revelation that superman has a human mother should prove batman right
>>67677324
But there are so many other good Batman stories and they're like "MUH TDKR" for the last two movies (Although Rises had Knightfall too)
>>67677395
> superman is being used to cause destruction
Well being used and doing it on your own are different problems. He realized Lex was playing them both. And consdiering Batman got played too, he probably had enough sympathy for Clark's position. Besides, even he probably realized that killing someone for making the same mistakes you just made is too hypocritical even for him.
>Bats couldn't save his mother
>Bats couldn't save that little girl's mother
>Bats couldn't save Robin
>"You let your family die"
>"Martha won't die tonight!"
C A P E K I N O
>"Am I looking too much into this?"
Let me see
>Zack Snyder flick
The answer is always yes
>>67677698
He's not going deep enough, he is still only at the surface level.
>>67677646
>C A P E K I N O
Should i go see this movie?
>>67677866
Yes.
>>67677866
Yep.
One thing people are not arguing about is the visuals. It's a beautiful movie to see on the big screen. And you can see for yourself if you like the rest or not.
>>67677866
Of course. Go see it and form your own opinions. And even if you don't like it, you'll enjoy the memes. It's a win win.
Where's the picture showing dawn of justice as CAPEKINO?
>>67674528
>tfw we got two based adaptations of The Punisher this year, even though one was dressed like a bat
This movie has your typical muggifin (kryptonite. In future films it will be motherboxes). And it has your typical buildup to a big cgi fest fight at the end.
Nothing new to see here.
>>67674810
I literally know no fan of the comics who liked this film. Fuck, I'm a huge fan of the comics and this film is just soul crushingly bad.
>Dad is a huge libcuck
>gets murdered by the people he's trying to save
Literal poetry
>>67678218
I liked it, one of the best superhero films to date in recent memory.
>>67677122
>Some enemies they just kill inadvertently or have little choice but to kill. Like I don't think anyone complained about them killing Doomsday.
Exactly this.
>>67678259
>>67678205
it's spelled mcguffin you retard. thanks for the insightful criticism
>>67674923
>So things like lex's motivation I already know it's cause he's jealous of superman
Depends on the comic. Different incarnations of Lex have very different reasons for hating Superman. Sometimes it's jealousy, but almost as common is that he believes Superman is holding humanity as a whole back.
The fact is that the movie simply glosses over what should have been one of its most fundamental parts.
>>67678309
Don't try to distract the point of my comment with Grammer natzi shit.
Everything is said is true. They have the same formula you faggots always complain about. But this time it's part of a really badly made movie.
>>67678312
Lex mentions something about his dad being super strict when he was a kid and that made him pissed off at god or something, and he was taking that anger out on superman seeing as how throughout the movie they built up superman to be a Christ figure.
>>67678299
It's in the top 3 of good superhero movies made since MCU began.
>>67678436
Fucking stop anon. I can only laugh so much.
>>67678488
Post all the silly images from your folder that you want, won't change the fact that most of the superhero movies coming out are forgettable drivel. BvS is one of the few that will be remembered.
Sad Affleck Mad World Version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaEdRWRgu6o
>>67678544
It will be remembered in the same way Batman and Robin and Green Lantern are.
>>67678544
Good lord, you are a massive stubbly cunt
>>67678667
No, it will be remembered as one of the few capeshit with soul
>>67678712
Good lord, you are a massive stubbly pleb.
YOU'RE THE BOSS, BOSS MAN
what did he mean by this?
>>67674205
Anon, can you give me your POV of Superman like you did in the caput of this thread?
>>67678734
>unironically liking BvS
>calling someone else a pleb
YOU MUST STOP THIS AT ONCE
>>67677122
even the grenade guy was not directly killed by batman
>>67678794
>unironically hating capekino
>pretending not to be pleb
Does your shame know no bounds?
>>67678748
off topic but I'd really like to see what it's like from Superman's POV to activate heat vision
>>67677207
God I'm liking the movie more with each time I watch it.
>>67678852
YOU'RE NOT BEING CLEVER, YOU'RE JUST REPHRASING THE SAME THING ANON IS SAYING TO YOU, JUST SHUT UP
>>67678852
Now you're just shitposting so that you can pretend you were the whole time.
>>67677866
Yes. Tell us what you think later. Fuckthe critics.
>>67678915
Dude, this thread is already beyond level 1 bait. Step your game up.
>>67678915
You have seen the light.
>>67678919
>>67678932
The plebs have not.
>>67678983
this is bait
>>67678983
wtf you talking about? are you a marveldrone or something?
this fuckng board
>>67678744
>boss man
Did you even watch the movie faggot?
>>67678983
2deep4marvel
>>67678979
I just finished watching the movie. It sucks.
>>67679160
you shouldn't lie on the internet
>>67674385
Omg dude...I didn't even get that, that was KGBeast. I remember reading the original storyline back in the day.
Now I absolutely have to fo watch this again
>>67679160
>marvelkek so desperate with people liking the movie that he must falseflag
Pathetic.
Just got back from the movie, I thought it was great minus everything Jesse Eisenberg, I could not take that jar of piss seriously.
Everything else was highly enjoyable and it really does not deserve that 29% on Rotten Tomatoes.
I can't wait to see Afleck direct his Batman, need more of those warehouse fight scenes.
>>67679229
You caught me. I watched it yesterday.
>>67679318
this
>those warehouse fight scenes
