The Force Awakens is a fine movie.
The movies that preceded it were just fine too.
Why is this new film making people so upset, while also changing the status quo regarding the Star Wars franchise?
The series has always suffered from logic and continuity issues, but even then people seemed to be able to enjoy Star Wars just fine.
I mean, I see people unironically PRAISING the prequels everyday and talking about Lucas is a genius.
Someone explain this to me; I know everyone will have differing opinions, but can some long time fans of the series (non-millennials) share some insight?
a glib facsimile
>>64307977
I think it is fair to say the prequels where anything but fine.
>>64307977
>Someone explain this to me; I know everyone will have differing opinions, but can some long time fans of the series (non-millennials) share some insight?
I've already made several threads explaining at least a dozen reasons why this film was and underwhelming rehash of ANH. I'm not in the mood to write about the list again.
>>64308126
Well you could always write it one more time then screen cap it so you won't have to rewrite it.
>>64307977
because its more of a reboot/remake than a proper sequel.
>>64307977
Autists are not people.
>>64308126
I've always seen the "rehash" argument being thrown around quite a bit, which I think is unfair.
The film was familiar, but different in enough ways to feel like it's own movie. It needed to be familiar, since it serves as the bridge film between the original trilogy and the future of the Star Wars universe.
That said, I'm basing a lot of my optimism that Episode 8 will really branch off and do its own thing.
>>64307977
>always suffered from logic and continuity
>Leia part of Rebel plan, gets captured over Tatooine (close to Alderaan)
>Last ditch effort send droids to find last hope Ben. You'd be a fool to assume that R2 didn't know what he was doing.
>Not unlikely that Ben lives near Luke
>Not even unlikely that Anakin made C3PO if you really think about it
I saw it on Sunday and I already forgot it, completely middle of the road and forgettable, not a worthy addition to SW.
>>64307977
This movie was boring as fuck. No real character development except for the black guy. The black guy was actually the best character. Han Solo? Ruined.
Rey doesn't seem to struggle at all.
>Rey happens to find the droid with Luke's map
>Rey happens to find the Millenium Falcon and knows how it works completely.
>Rey happens to run into Han Solo.
>Rey impresses Han Solo easily
>Rey is instantly liked by everyone because she's Rey.
>Rey happens to land on the ONE planet with Luke's lightsaber.
>Rey happens to figure out she can do a Jedi mindtrick to easily get out of captivity.
>Rey happens to turn into a full-fledged Jedi after Kylo Ren mentions the force.
>Rey turns into a Jedi by meditating for 5 whole seconds in the middle of a battle.
>Rey completely obliterates a dark Jedi who has been training for years.
Snore.
>>64308371
>not a worthy addition to SW.
unlike the veritable masterpieces that were the prequel trilogy
Because its good
/tv/ wanted it to be TDKR tier so they would have new shitposting memes, but TFA ended up being solid
Primarily the politics behind it (strong independent female lead, black man as the secondary) and the fact that the Jews behind it are making truckloads of money.
I personal still can appreciate the quality of the film and enjoy the experience.
>>64308387
These Star Wars Covergirl makeup commercials are all you need to know t b h
>>64308267
>That said, I'm basing a lot of my optimism that Episode 8 will really branch off and do its own thing.
I am too, but that still doesn't change my opinion that its a rehash. You can have familiarity without resulting to rehashing ANH plots. If you can't see this, I don't think we have anything else to say to one another.
...Anonymous
12/30/15(Wed)06:08:37 No.64265761
Huge plot holes:
-Rey is ultimate Mary Sue female empowerment fantasy. Better pilot than Han Solo. More powerful than a Dark Jedi. Can use force techniques she doesn't even know about. Beats a trained swordsman the first time she picks up a saber. It's so ridiculous it's laughable. It's also really insulting.
>The Millenium Falcon, the most famous ship in the galaxy, is just sitting around, fully fueled, weapons armed, and the door is wide open. This is after it has been stolen many times.
>Finn has a problem killing civilians but doesn't hesitate to kill literally dozens of his own men, the only people he has known his whole life. Self defense of not, he is a murderer and a traitor.
>Han Solo his happens to come along as soon as the Falcon leaves Jakku. A galaxy is a massive thing, but he just happens to be in the neighborhood.
>There's yet another fucking Death Star, only it's bigger and has an even bigger weak point.
>The shields on the Starkiller can be lowered by ONE FUCKING PERSON. Why would a Stormtrooper captain even know or be trained to do something like that?
It also steals literally dozens of ideas from the previous trilogy. And not just ideas, but also themes like redemption, belonging, family, etc
JJ Abrahms is also a shit director who has no eye for composition, he can't frame a decent shot to save his life. His pacing is also garbage.
This film also marks the worst score by John Wiliams in his whole career.
All of this stuff is indefensible.
>>64308500
I don't think that Williams did the actual score, but they just reused music from the old movies so they had to put his name on the score. That score was pretty meh between OT and prequels even...
>>64308500
How are any of these plot holes?
>>64307977
>but can some long time fans of the series (non-millennials) share some insight?
Shallow world building which falls apart under light scrutiny is what ruins it for me: Who're the resistance? Are they the New Republic or an insurgency which they sponsor or a democratic uprising in First Order territory? Where is the New Republic? Where is the First Order? How big is the first order? Why is the New Republic not in open war with them? How big is the new republic and why do we never see any of it?
Why the universe so tiny you can literally see a laser fly across the universe and destroy multiple planets from one place and every important character happens to run into each other so conveniently.
Why does Han only recently become enamored with Chewie's weapon despite that he has been his partner for decades?
How does Starkiller Base work? Can it travel to different stars to drain them? Is it a one in done deal? Does it exist in a system with multiple stars close bye and if so why is it so cold then?
Why does the Resistance only use X-wings? What happened to Y-wings, A-wings and B-wings? Is it just because X-wings were the most popular and JJ can only produce shallow imitation instead of a movie with actual substance thought put behind it perhaps?
JJ's action is boring. The terrestrial stuff is serviceable but anything airborne or in space is just blindingly fast and shaky.
I can't believe they fucked the saber sound effects so hard. The sound in general was so harsh on the ears, everything just hit the ear drum with an uncharacteristic slap. This is one of the most important aspects of Star Wars and it sounded more like I was watching a Nolan movie.
>>64308500
A solid list of reasons.
To add, the ST Captain would have died rather than lower the shields...
Lets also not forget the monster scene with Han was looked absolutely ridiculous
Also the character development and relationships felt "forced" and hamfisted. Hey we just met an hour ago, but we are bffs...
>a glib facsimile
>>64308405
>The prequels are bad
>That makes TFA automatically good
>>64308500
>>64308387
Rey's been a scavenger her whole life, so she had to learn to be resourceful. A combination of Kylo bleeding out, injured, Reys force sensitivity, and her ability with a staff all factored into her getting the upper hand on Kylo.
It's not as simple as her simply being able to defeat a dark Jedi out of the blue.
Shit, in A New Hope, Luke is able to destroy the Death Star despite having never been inside on an X-wing before and no previous shots of him piloting any vehicle short of the Star Wars equivalent of a car. Was it just because he suddenly became an expert pilot? No; it's a combination of his force sensitivity AND his previous piloting experience (which is never shown).
At least TFA paints Rey as a very capable scavenger from the get go, making her growth somewhat believable.
>>64308387
The only thing that bothered me was that she was able to fly the Falcon. They should have written some bullshit scene about how she had a job cleaning all that shit that the dude had and she worked on the ship or something and knew how it operated.
Because this board is full of millennial manchildren whose love of Star Wars is entirely nostalgic -- if something is remotely out of place they'll find room to complain and cry about it because most of the fags here are a bunch of pathetic NEETs any way
It felt rushed especially the end. I wished the movie slowed down and give some backstory to Rey and the Empire and Republic. All we got were some little hints of the past that lead up to Episode 7.
>>64308659
I agree that this was the weakest part of the film. Though people complained about the prequels because of the manner it handle its politics and world building.
But they should have definitely taken at least a little 5 minute scene to explain the relationship between the Rebellion / Resistance / First Order in more detail. It wouldn't have been difficult.
>>64308659
This is a really good post.
>>64308659
>Why does Han only recently become enamored with Chewie's weapon despite that he has been his partner for decades?
Fan wank. Same reason they had R2 in the film.
>>64308780
this
>Lucas s-sucked
>Jar-Jar was stupid
>Anakin's acting was bad
at least the prequels offered NEW STORY instead of a rehashed plot. It deserves to take Avatar's mantle for most money paid for hack movie.
>>64307977
Because they're pissed that feminist and SJWs like this because Rey is a Mary Sue even though there's nothing wrong with a Mary Sue and Luke was a Gary Stu as well.
Goobergates and poltards have no backbone and personality.
>inb4 Luke wasn't a Gary Stu
Here, I'm going to easily destroy any counter arguments:
Luke destroyed the Empire's greatest weapon. Rey did not.
Any other thing Rey has over Luke dwarfs in comparison to Luke's achievement which is something you retards should accept since Luke is a man and men are better at war than women.
>>64308794
>no previous shots of him piloting any vehicle short of the Star Wars equivalent of a car.
Throught the whole movie people are saying he's the best pilot on Tatooine
>>64307977
contrarian autists
>>64308821
>sanctimonious redditor the post
>>64308659
This whole post is garbage.
So you want them to explain all of this to you so your autism can be satisfied??? Most of those don't need to be explained because they're irrelevant to the story.
Furthermore, the original films never dipped into this level of autism (who are the rebels? How come obiwan never contacted luke sooner, why didn't they explain how convenient it was that Han Solo just happened to be in that cantina to save them? Why does Vader spare everyone on Bespin? How does Luke know R2 will be on Jabbas ship at that exact moment he needs? How did Vader and Luke return to the Death Star together?)
This level of autism is not the purpose of movies you fucking cunt. Go be retarded somewhere else.
>>64307977
Because it managed to shit on both the OT and the PT while being poorly directed in the same time.
I think it's by far the worst Star Wars and, simply put, a bad movie. When I sit through a bad movie in a theatre, it makes me upset, especially when I've had hopes for said movie.
>>64308992
>first light saber fight luke gets in
>is toyed with and has his hand cut off
>first light saber fight rey gets in
>beats a trained sith who's so powerful he can stop a laser in mid-air
>>64308500
Don't forget the Aryan Nazi guy. Whoever that kid was
>>64309139
You complain in one breath that the movie is too much like ANH, while in the same breath complaining it's too different.
>Experienced staff user facing an injured dark Jedi
>Said dark Jedi obviously isn't trying to kill her
>His arrogance allows her to channel her force sensitivity alongside her staff training
>Dark Jedi losses the upperhand in his weakened and arrogant conidition
Makes sense to me.
>>64309092
Can you find as many plotholes as the post you quoted in ANH alone? Because you covered 3 movies there and still don't have as many plot holes.
>>64309069
>ass ravaged manchild: the post
>>64309235
>Can stop a laser in mid-air
>Gets shot by chewie
>Gets beat by untrained uh staff scavenger lady
>planet splits in two separating the two of them conveniently
>>64309092
Thats because luke still was not ready, when he got to obi wan, becauae han solo back then was a random smuggler, so it could have been anyone and because a nazi like empire od evil ruled by a dark magician fighting against resistance is seld explanatory.
It isn't a fine movie. Nitpicks about logic and plotholes aside, it's a lousy action movie with a very underwhelming climax. It fails as a standalone adventure as it relies so much on people's prior knowledge of Star Wars to flag plot points as important, e.g. the significance of R2D2, lightsabers, etc.
>>64309244
"Plot holes" aren't things your autism picks up on to complain about minor details. Plot holes leave out crucial details that leave part of the plot missing (I.e. If there was never a Cantina scene and Luke just suddenly appears with Han).
The whole "HURR DURR WHY DOES HAN START USING THE BOWCASTER?" is not a plot hole when it has nothing to do with the plot.
>>64309281
>projecting this hard
>>64309270
best fucking part was TRAITOR
>>64308794
No. Wounded or not she forces his hands down in hand to hand combat. She's stronger than a man twice her size. Absolutely ridiculous.
Knowing the Jedi mind trick and having force powers greater than a trained force user is ridiculous and inexcusable.
Luke was a trained pilot and it was well established in the film. Making a lucky shot because you had faith is a lot more believable than becoming an instant Jedi master.
Rey's ridiculous character traits were all about ins thing, patronizing the female audience. And in doing so they trashed 30 years of Star Wars history.
>>64309341
Yeah I agree, I saw it with someone who isn't a Star Wars fan and hadn't seen the OT in a very long time, and he was asking all these questions that would have been answered if he'd watched the OT before.
>>64309270
TRAITOR
>>64309341
What did you expect when you KNEW the original cast was going to be in the movie? That the film wouldn't retread some old ground and complete ignore the story that the previous 6 films built up?
Sounds like you have unrealistic expectations.
>>64309326
>that's because Luke still was not ready
You just made that shit up yourself. Injecting your personal feelings and guesses into holes left by plot convenience does not make them real.
Your position sums up the general autism on /tv/ -- act as apologists for the things you like by making up minor details to reinforce that, or with extreme autism pick apart a movie for having minor details missing irrelevant to the movie as a whole.
Attempting to insert "logic" into the film to make it more enjoyable for you is something children do when they watch movies.
>>64309341
Wow its almost like a sequel building off the previous installments to save having to REINTRODUCE things we already know about.
>>64309360
Okay, so plot holes isn't the right word, but the post you're whining about said "shallow world-building"
>>64308794
>>64309406
Besides all that, the fight was just boring. Kylo basically hammered his lightsaber against Rey's until she got pissed, pulled a jedi trick out of her arse and beat him with a 2quick4u move.
>>64309406
>Jedi master
I didn't know that being able to wield a bladed weapon and preform Jedi mind trick made you a "jedi master". It anything, it shows that Kylo's training isn't complete (as the movie mentions) and he is not as powerful as he boasts to be.
Rey grew up rough; the bitch is tough and has mad force sensitivity.
Did we watch the same movie?
>>64309092
>So you want them to explain all of this to you so your autism can be satisfied??? Most of those don't need to be explained because they're irrelevant to the story.
Yes and it isn't autism to want a decent or even brief explanation of what the fuck is going on in the universe besides "The Resistance vs First Order oh and the Republic got blown up or something." Everything is extremely vague, the New Republic should be a huge aspect of the of the plot and they're barely even mentioned, instead we're just back to square one of the OT with scrappy Rebels fighting big evil Empire while apparently the large galactic spanning Republic sits out of the conflict or is conveniantly destroyed so we can get back to the status quo.
>Furthermore, the original films never dipped into this level of autism
I think you're forgetting the original wasn't a sequel and had no big returning characters, everyone was new to the audience so none of that really mattered. SW has been fleshed out a ton since ANH so comparing the seventh installment in a long running series to the first one isn't really fair and even these "plotholes" seem minor compared to what I mentioned about TFA in my original post.
>>64309406
>forces his hands down in hand to hand combat. She's stronger than a man twice her size.
1. Kylo Ren isn't twice her size
2.remember in A New Hope when Luke channeled the force to overcome impossible odds of destroying the first Death Star? What's that you don't remember that?
That would explain why you're so fucking stupid
>>64308500
Don't forget
>Hey we've been looking all over the galaxy for this important map and now we can finally reach Luke Skywalker!
>I know, let's send some girl we've never met on this viral mission!
Totally believable
>>64308992
>argument destroyed
lol ok
-Luke was told to be the best pilot in the outer rim.
-said that he on a reoccurring basis shoot animals about the same size as the vent to the death star.
- was using the force, quite to a sever degree that Vader got a lock on and was about to blow the shit out of his son if Han didn't save his ass.
>That was all he did that movie, pilot well, because they said throughout the whole movie he could pilot well.
Rey on the other hand is a scavenger, and she can do everything better than anyone else in the movie because of the force.
>>64309503
>grew up rough
What makes you think that? One fight with two midgets?
>had mad force
No. She knew nothing about it and never displayed any knowledge or use of it until it was convenient to the plot.
Now you're just making shit up, idiot.
>>64308500
I know you guys are autistic, but you do understand that killing innocent civilians and killing soldiers from the oppressive empire that you defected from are two different things, right?
>>64309451
in the movie Luke's uncle acts like he doesn't like obi-wan very much. who's to say he didn't tell obi that he wasn't welcome?
It's not really necessary, who's to say obi ever intended on talking to Luke in the first place?
>>64309503
Kylo does Jedi Mind tricks in the movie, it's something he's shown to be good at. He also stops a laser in mid-air.
>>64309520
That's because everyone liked her so much because she's special Rey-Rey. They wanted her smile to be the first thing Luke saw.
>>64309520
Don't forget
>Hey this is the most important mission the Rebellion has ever had.
>I know, let's let this guy names Luke we just met and has no prior experience piloting an X-wing take part in this nearly impossible mission.
Totally believable.
>>64309235
>staff == lightsaber
that doesn't even equate in the way she would fight at all.
>staff + force =/= lightsaber expert
>>64309503
Anakin grew up rough, and despite having mad force sensitivity, he lost against Dooku. And against Obi-Wan.
Rey didn't even know the force existed a couple of days ago, and now she's able to mind-control and beat someone who is far more experienced then her in both weapon mastery and force mastery.
Yeah, nah.
>>64309503
>didn't know that being able to wield a bladed weapon and preform Jedi mind trick made you a master
It's s big part of it.
Luke couldn't even beat a simple training droid the first time he picked up a saber.
And she's defeating trained swordsman with godlike force powers, which he conveniently didn't use in their fight
Absolutely ridiculous
BTFO
ITT: People underestimating the power of the force.
>>64309519
>makes a lucky shot in the first movie
>get's his fucking hand cut off trying to fight a training sithlord in the second
vs.
>learn's jedi mind tricks by sitting around chilling
>beats a trained sith with a light saber she just finds
>>64309451
Did mr. Apologize everthing wrong with vii with mistakea in the first fucking movie with no budget over 30 years old, call me an apologist?
i am far from calling iv great, but the reason is given, you just forgot it. Its btw a really bad explanation, but still not as lazy as vii, where apologists have to build fan theories for disney to make an excuse of the joke reys character is.
>>64309488
Fucking this.
>>64309519
The Death Star was a shot based on faith
Rey forces the hands of a man much larger than her, down to his sides, in hand to hand combat
It's fucking absurd and completely laughable
>>64309547
>-Luke was told to be the best pilot in the outer rim.
Without any experience to suggest so. He's a Gary stu.
>>64309547
>-said that he on a reoccurring basis shoot animals about the same size as the vent to the death star.
Part of being a Gary Stu is the ability to do just that for no good reason.
>was using the force
Space magic is not a good excuse.
>better than anyone else in the movie because of the force
Like Luke.
>>64309520
You remember Chewbacca going with her, right?
How is sending a girl who's helped destroy the Starkiller and beaten Kylo Ren more ridiculous then sending some recruit who's barely proven himself on the Death Star mission?
>>64307977
For me it's not the film itself but everything around it. The franchise has become a machine, with merchandise spewing from every shelf. The fans and even the general population have been completely overzealous with TFA which has made it this grande historical event when really it's a corporate sci-fi flick that panders to every dumb PC demographic so they'll buy an over sized Star Wars T-shirt which hides their fat stomachs and post their shitty fan-art on Tumblr.
>>64309599
Wrong faggot
Luke was just a small part of a large attack force. When he took the shot he was the only person still alive. They had no choice you dumb cunt
>>64309637
This. Never underestimate space magic and bullshit writing convenience.
>>64309690
You're kind of dumb, aren't you?
ITT:
>but but but muh Disney princess empowerment fantasy that ruins the lore is so believable
Faggots and women
>>64309700
The way they shoved the pilots of the Rogue Squadron movie franchise down our throat was just fucking insulting. Same with Phasma, how many toys did this useless character with barely any screen time has sold ? It's revolting.
>mfw people in this tread think anakin was the prophecy
>>64309795
Rey is?
>>64309567
1. Jakku is obviously a shitty place to live. The movie makes that apparent several times.
2. Rey is a completely different force user all together. She has a past we know nothing of, which will obviously explain her being about to acclimated to the force so quickly.
Rey isn't Luke.
Rey isn't Anakin.
She's one of the most original parts in a movie that rehashed a lot from the previous films. Yet all people can complain about it how TFA isn't original enough, while shitting on anything original the movie tried to introduce.
>>64309820
Kylo Ren is
>post yfwsnoke is plagieus and he created the skywalker line
Obi-Wan Kenobi:
>Jedi master with years of training, experience and skills. Knows Jedi mind trick because he's a highly skilled legendary Jedi master
>Rey, knows the Jedi mind trick because LOL she just thought of it. Don't hit on me you silt Stormtrooper!
It's like spitting in the face of the audience and the long time fans
>>64309733
I'm not the idiot who thinks Luke isn't a Gary stu and worships Star Wars as if it's a holy story.
You retards can't stand criticism. Just as dumb as the SJWs.
>>64309838
The only good original thing in the movie was Finn. Rey is a boring Mary Sue. The rest is unoriginal and most of it has been peppered with Marvel's quirky humour and quips to take you out of the experience even more.
>>64309838
>but but her past!
Dumped on a desert planet as a toddler. Picking trash ever since. And nothing about Jakku makes it appear hostile except the environment
Give it a rest ma'am, you just sound ridiculous now
>>64309838
See? Your making up theories again, because the movie fails as an entity regarding rey. Its so horrible you make up the next movie.
rey is not innovative. She is the generix hull for insecure young women. And before you say that was the same with luke and anakin were the same, remind yourself od their character arc.
>>64309406
> No. Wounded or not she forces his hands down in hand to hand combat. She's stronger than a man twice her size. Absolutely ridiculous.
She's stronger with both arms fully functional against an exhausted guy who was shot in his stomach and sliced with a lightsaber in his shoulder. Not too weird. Chill out people, it's a fun movie for kids.
>>64309709
They had plenty of choice to include him in the operation.
Have you ever heard of a big important military operation where nobodies without any military training or proof of competence are included to take down a key enemy structure?
Now be quiet and go back pretending you can use the Force.
>>64309922
No. Fuck you Disney. The force isn't a magical plot device that makes up for poor writing.
Go fuck yourself
>>64308126
It was a rehash of the whole OT but plebs can't seem to make that connection
>>64309974
>lol she's stronger than a full grown man and trained force user who can stop blaster bolts in mid air and freeze people entirely
You're a complete jack ass
>>64307977
can you please just go back to fucking reddit and leave us alone here
>>64309975
Its anounced multiple times that they are lacking pilots.
>>64309975
>nobodies used in military operations
Yeah, it was called the d-day invasion you laughable cunt.
>>64309921
>boring
That's extremely subjective
.>>64309944
>except the environment
That's a pretty big thing you retard. Environment shapes the individual.
>>64309961
He's making theories because episode 7 doesn't have sequels yet like Episode 1 and Episode 4.
The bullshit nonsense like Anakin bringing down a droid ship and Luke bringing down a Death star was explained later
Don't get me wrong, they're all examples of bad writing including the new movie.
Also, why do you retards keep defending Lucas' bad writing?
>>64310052
>but but but the desert!
Pathetic cunt.
>>64309270
TRAITOR
>>64309690
>Without any experience to suggest so. He's a Gary stu.
I really don't understand if you wanted visual proof or not, but they stated that all throughout ANH, where Rey was just "I can fly" once and then expertly piloted the Falcon, I NEVER DID THAT BEFORE...
>Space magic is not a good excuse.
He focused his entirety on getting just a little more accuracy on a shot that was almost made by a regular pilot not too long before hand, Rey would just close her and BAM she da best.
>better than anyone else in the movie because of the force
At one thing you autist, and not even by much. Rey was instantly better at EVERYTHING over EVERYONE.
ITT: Pathetic tumblr-ites crying because their feminist empowerment fantasy is crumbling
It's Phantom Menace all over again
>>64310052
Actually no.
iv can stand on its own as a closed movie. Luke manages to internalize the force in a very weak way and the imperials are beaten back for now.
its not a good movie, but it is one. Vii is a sloppy mess.
>>64309690
Luke is largely useless for the first half of the movie, and when he does accomplish something, it is because of no small amount of luck and prior piloting skill.
Compare this to the hot garbage that is Rey. Let's count how many times Rey saves the day in the first film alone:
>with no prior piloting experience (shown or implied) and clear difficulty in handling the Falcon on takeoff, she manages a maneuver more complex than anything shown in the OT
>has the charisma to instantly befriend Solo and Chewie, manages to save Finn from the squid monsters with her convenient knowledge of exactly how or when to close blast doors to sever its arms, and displays more intimate mechanical knowledge of the Falcon than its previous owner and operator Han Solo
>misses a grand total of one shot against a stormtrooper after being given her first blaster pistol, to which she claims is as simple to use as "point and shoot, right?" and is not shown to miss any shots after that
>resists a trained Sith Lord in a duel of minds, and conveniently learns how to use force persuasion with no prior training at all
>subsequently evades detection in a base crawling with Stormtroopers long enough to escape
>uses force powers to yank a lightsaber away from Kylo Ren, who has shown his powers strong enough to stop blaster fire mid-flight (and she does this with no prior training to boot)
>defeats Ren in a one-on one duel despite never having held a lightsaber before, even going as far as to be able to resist the raw strength of a man twice her size while doing the limbo over a collapsing chasm less than a foot behind her
>is trusted to go alone to find the most important ally the Resistance has ever had
This is going to be the main character for the next two films. Say goodbye to any sense of character development, because Rey is literally Jedi Jesus and best at everything.
i just finished watching ANH again for the first time in years and it's a million times better than TFA.
things actually have explanation and a feeling of consequence. people have faults and the whole movie is much slower so it feels like an adventure more than just one action scene followed by crazed yelling and running towards another action scene. also much less forced.
>>64310083
> where Rey was just "I can fly" once and then expertly piloted the Falcon, I NEVER DID THAT BEFORE...
She also happens to be a true language genius since she only needed 2 days to become fluent in wookie.
>>64309975
>rebellion has shortage of pilots
>guy who has navigated the death star, proven his loyalty by delivering deathstar plans and who has a personal relationship with the princess also states he is an experienced pilot, which is the only thing he really is talented at in the original movie
>anything like meeting a miniature Emma Stone ripoff and sending her to meet the last Jedi master in the galaxy instead of anyone the guy actually knows
>>64309838
>Rey isn't Luke.
>Rey isn't Anakin.
>Luke isn't Anakin
also fixed
>She's the most unoriginal part in a movie that rehashed a lot from the previous film.
>>64310157
I don't now how I forgot that she out maneuvers a trained combat pilot the first time she flies the Millenium Falcon.
Fucking ridiculous.
>>64309974
>Just turn your brain off man!
>>64310161
Hey, good for you man. That's at least a good thing about TFA. People feel like watching ANH again which was honestly an amazing experience. It does feel more like an adventure and their friendship grows over time. It's a joy to watch.
>>64310112
No, I just don't understand WHY people think the film is a feminist "fantasy" just because some of the characters are women?
>>64310052
This guy gets it. Jakku while make you grow up quick; it's not a place where you would want a child raised.
Also this is just one film in a new trilogy. There are more explanations and story to come. If Epsidoe 1 or 4 were standalone films, they'd be lacking a bunch of minuscule details as well.
>>64310277
Because it is a feminist fantasy starring a completely unbelievable character with ridiculous instant God like Jedi powers.
She's a product of marketing designed to pander to a new audience solely for the purpose of making money
>>64310277
No iv wouldn't thats the point. I was a horrible movie. So whats your point?
A trilogy is not a 9 hour fil cut in three, but three movies adding up. But vii is no movie its a shitshow with bad character writimg. It also fails to prepare them for the trilogy.
>>64310277
First, stop same fagging. Your writing style is obvious,
Second...
>Jakku while make you grow up quick;
Why? Because it's a desert? You mean like the on Luke lived on?
Yeah, thought so. Another weak argument BTFO.
>>64310047
Then they should have called the operation off, like any non-retarded force should do.
>>64310048
As meatbags sure. But not as pilots when aircrafts doesn't come so cheap.
>>64310075
You're a retard who can't grasp a basic fact that enviornment shapes people. Of course I'm not claiming everyone who lives in a desert is a badass. Then again, this is a world with space magic so rules are going to be different with regards to enviornment and advancement of capabilities.
>>64310083
>but they stated that all throughout ANH
They stated that someone who had no way of flying before is an expert pilot? That's contradiction in the plot.
>>64310083
>He focused his entirety on getting just a little more accuracy on a shot
What an extremely convenient way of taking down the world's biggest weapon that can obliterate pilots. And Luke can do it because of the Force.
Darth Vader himself said "Don't understimate the power of the Force" to the guy he was choking. Now this would be a fine explanation if it wasn't for the fact that Luke wasn't established as an experienced Force user.
>>64310083
>At one thing
That one thing dwarfs anything Rey could ever dream of accomplishing.
Beating a wannabe edgelord is nothing compared to taking down a fucking pseudo planet.
>>64310487
>Retard! You're a retard! Muh desert!
You're terrible at this. It's really embarrassing.
>>64310277
> Jakku while make you grow up quick; it's not a place where you would want a child raised.
But what makes you say that ? Because it's a desert ? Do you think Arizona is full of trained warrior and PMC material ? The only think we saw about Jakku is that it's a desert, and Rey is scavenger waiting for someone. People didn't seem to be particularly hostile or violent, just poor.
>>64310487
There was no choicd calling the operation of? Have you misse the part about alderan? It was a hail mary with the back against the wall. Thats why they send every pilot.
>>64310543
But that old woman who is cleaning junk parts with Rey seemed like a total bad ass! I'm sure she's got mad fighting skills.
>>64310445
Luke lived with his loving Aunt and Uncle.
Rey had to fend for herself. Work and adapt or die is the picture the movie painted.
>>64310157
>Luke is largely useless for the first half of the movie
Doesn't change the fact that he took down a death star.
>many times Rey saves the day in the first film alone:
This has more to do with the fact that her opposition aren't that strong. They're not even Vader of Sheev level of power.
Rey didn't take down one of the most well guarded superweapons.
>>64310157
>Say goodbye to any sense of character development,
Don't kid yourself. Star wars didn't have this. At least the movies aren't going to suffer from atrocious dialogue, which makes episode 7 more watchable than the rest.
>>64310183
>states he is an experienced pilot
That's the biggest bullshit right there.
>>64310277
The retards you're arguing with are too caught up in nostalgia and internet drama about SJWs to realize their arguments are full of shit.
>>64310588
>Picking trash makes you a total warrior
Just shut up already
Do you think Jakku had designated shitting streets?
>>64310588
What the fuck? Anakins mother lived with them too. Forgotten the part about her being skinned alive?
>>64310588
No it's not. According to your logic Oliver Twist should have turned into Rambo and Cosette into Wonder Woman.
>>64310600
You obviously didn't watch the original Star Wars and you're just discarding things that don't fit you're pathetic argument.
I imagine you as a woman or trans person who is immensely triggered by all this valid criticism
I'm sorry lady, that's the way it goes
>>64310520
>Mommy! I'm trying to troll again!
>>64310565
The empire can only destroy so many planets. A scorched earth strategy (but on a space level) would have worked against a biggest force.
But of course traditional strategy is foreign to the characters and the writers.
Then again, the Empire destroying planets was dumb as fuck. You need people to be under you for slaves, resources and taxation. Destroying planets doesn't make any sense.
>Film
That's not a film OP. It's one step lower then a Flick.
>>64310694
>Destroying planets doesn't make any sense.
I destroy your mother every night and the pleasure makes sense to me.
>>64310600
Same fagging again to agree with yourself. Fucking pathetic
How man times are you going to use the word retard?
Go cuddle up with your plush Rey doll from the Disney store and quit crying.
>>64310689
I'm afraid that I did watch those movies. I wished that I didn't though, they're easily one of the most overhyped movies ever. But then again, they're not atrocious movies. There are far worse movies out there.
>>64310689
>I imagine you as a woman or trans person who is immensely triggered by all this valid criticism
I had a sense you idiots were the type of anti-SJW morons. Looks like I was right. And like SJWs you resort to namecalling (they'll call you a virgin male) when you're out of arguments.
>>64310755
>name calling
Exactly what you've done in every single post.
>>64310723
This.
>>64310739
You take the concept of revenge as to heart. You should be listening to your god Yoda.
>>64310751
Pic related.
>How man times are you going to use the word retard?
I wouldn't have to use that word so much if you weren't so dumb.
>>64310487
>They stated that someone who had no way of flying before is an expert pilot? That's contradiction in the plot.
Firstly you are implying he had no way of flying, he did have a way of flying it's called a T-16 (they talked about it in the movie). They say he is an expert pilot, he was able to fly, they just don't show it.
>What an extremely convenient way of taking down the world's biggest weapon that can obliterate planets. And Luke can do it because of the Force. Darth Vader himself said "Don't underestimate the power of the Force" to the guy he was choking. Now this would be a fine explanation if it wasn't for the fact that Luke wasn't established as an experienced Force user.
The force wasn't the reason he was able to take it down, the damn thing had a hole that anyone could have shot, it would have blown up, he only used the force to aim. That is all he did, paling in comparison what Rey could do in the film because of the force.
Again he used the force to aim a missile, the design of the Death Star is what caused it to blow up, but to be CLEAR he used the force to AIM. Totally Gary Stu.
>>64310835
Screen caps mean nothing same fag.
>more name calling
Uh huh, sure.
This whole phenomenon is phantom menace effect all over again.
Wow. History truly repeats itself.
>>64310600
>Well guarded
>has a vent that will cause the whole thing to blow up if a missile is shot in.
Also he used the force to AIM into the vent, which caused the reaction to blow up the Death Star (force being used to aim). Anyone could have done it and it was almost done by a pilot right before.
>>64310600
Hm lets see lukes development.
naiv farmer living the rural live and being a good speeder pilot hunting predators.
meets obi wan who tells him his fatther was a jedi knight.
during the whole movie henis completly dependent on other persons training him and keeping him from vader. Obi wan sacrifices himself. The rebels take this useless guy who can fly fast moving vehicles as they need every pilot and he manages to survive, then months of trainig withnobi wan pay out, when he uses all his connection to the force to find thenright moment when to pushna button. How to blow up the death star was not his plan, but the one by the resistance high command.
in thensecond movie he does nothing but fly xwings again, but is threatened to fall to the dark side by becoming ignorant and driven by revenge. When he gets the chance for it, vader manhandles him like a little bitch.
third movie. Lukemspends most of the time being trained by the greatest force user of all 7 films and finds the strength to fight his inner demon. Hr gets on the death star because other people shut down its defense systems on endor. The fleet then attacks. As all hope is vain, luke does not win by killing sidious, but by getting his father, the real master of force here, back to the light side.
Now compare that to rey.
I saw the movie for first time tonite.
My question is how come c3po had to explain to bb8 that r2 was in low power mode.
Wouldnt Poe and bb8 originally have been on thale rebellions planet and thus bb8 would already know r2 is powered down?
>>64310955
>b-b-but my feminist empowerment fantasy! Instant Jedi just add water!!
>>64310966
THE AUDIENCE YOU DUMMY!
>>64310600
>Star Wars has no character development
I'm starting to think you never watched the OT. Luke starts as a naive young man on the cusp of adulthood who just wants to join the rest of his friends as a pilot instead of being stuck on his uncle's farm. He's instead thrust into the middle of a galactic rebellion, forced to grapple with the fact that he's the last of a mysterious order of space wizards, spends the first two movies training only to jump the gun and get his ass kicked by Vader, recognizes his failings and his own inner dark side, returns to complete his training, and convinces his father to help him save the day and earn redemption. Luke has flaws. Luke fails occasionally. He follows the classic hero's journey with a space-opera twist, and is a believable and relatable protagonist.
And then we have Rey, who is the best at everything she does. She never loses a fight, is always the one to save the day, and she beats people who should be experts at what they do with no training or experience at all. The ONLY thing Luke does that's worthy of note in the first film is blowing up the Death Star, which he could not have done without help (other rebel pilots, a well-timed Han Solo appearance), a great deal of luck (hitting his target using the force), and having the task play to his ONLY known talent (piloting). Rey has fucking God Mode turned on from the start of the movie, and anyone who isn't completely dense can see this. I already gave you a list of how she wins at everything, go take a second look if you've forgotten already.
>>64310994
I get this. Couldve been done better tho (for the audience) it was jarringly obvious
>>64307977
No it's not a fine movie, its a bad movie. It has mediocre dialogue, shitty character-developement, shitty comic-reliefs, horrible pacing and really bland music.
Also Rey is a shitty actor who makes the same expressions is all her scenes.
>>64310966
Well r2d2 is major plothole.
the resistance was lookingnfor luke all the time,,but forgot to check his personal droids database by pluging him back in?
>>64311056
I completely agree
They had a chance to make the greatest film ever that could have been Return to Oz: Star Wars but they FUCKED it up
>>64310955
Once again, you're comparing Luke's arc over 3 films to that of Rey's arc over the course of one.
By the end of the new trilogy, I'm sure that her arc will grow significantly as well.
>>64310780
At least the name calling I've done comes with a refuttal. Just claiming that I'm a "trannny women, blah blah" isn't an argument to be taken seriously.
>>64310847
T-16 are flown in a planet, not in space where there's zero gravity (or close to). It's a different set of skills.
>>64310847
>, the damn thing had a hole that anyone could have shot,
And yet Luke was conveniently the only who did.
>The force wasn't the reason he was able to take it down
Vader warned that technology is nothing in comparison to the power of the Force before he had to choke the admiral who insulted his religion. He was implying that it did take an a strong affinity in the Force to do it.
The problem is that Luke wasn't established as a strong Force user in the first episode.
>he only used the force to aim
In a ship he's never flown before? You're stretching a lot to make your argument sound less silly that it is.
>>64310866
Your whole life means nothing. You can't argue, you can't even shitpost properly...
What are you good at, besides living a parasitic lifestyle?
>>64310929
> Anyone could have done it
Yet, Luke was conveniently the only one to do so.
>>64310955
It's not development if there's bullshit plotholes between each step.
>>64311012
It's badly written character development. There are plenty of stories that do it better. Read La Morte D'Arthur...
Actually fuck that, read Dante's Divine Comedy if you want to know what a proper character development is. And I'm recommanding this series of poetry despite the fact that it triggered me more so than Star Wars stupidity ever did.
>>64311128
They didn't forget to plug him in, he refused to function because Luke told him not to.
>>64311012
She scrubbed dirt for years just to get by on Jakku.
She lived in a burnt out Imperial Walker.
She couldn't convince Finn to stay.
She couldn't handle her force vision and abandoned everyone at the temple.
She is captured and mentally tortured by Kylo Ren.
All her powers don't start to manifest themselves until after she's been through all of this. Also, for all her force powers, her and Finn would have been toast is Chewy didn't show up to save them.
>>64311258
The point is that lukes character arc in the first movie was allready better and more fitting. Stop fucking ignoring the major point.
everything rey does by minute 180 she could do by minute 60. The only reason she doesn't use the force is, that she does not need it to mary sue in saftey.
meanwhile luke gets completly fucked in the first movie,for being a naiv desert dweller and only solo and obi wan save him frommbeing killed.
rey does nkt need finn to hold her hand after 20 minutes. She does not need solo by 60. She doesmnot need anything.
>>64311299
Yes thats totally what a machine can decide to do.
its a question of time to aucessfully break security protocols, but they never tried.
>>64311382
Luke still does something Rey could never do, even in her dreams : destroy a fucking superweapon no one ever could.
And he does it so conveniently.
Why do you plebs keep defending bad writing? Star wars is not a film and it's certainly not cinema.
>>64311429
>destroy a fucking superweapon no one ever could.
Everybody could, all they had to do was to shoot in that hole. It's not about the ability to destroy the weapon, but it's about being in position to do so.
And that's ANH. Luke is not a hero. He trained all his life to be a pilot but they took him because they were short of pilots and during the battle, he found himself in the position to shoot.
>>64311429
Everyone fucking could. It was build stupidly insecure due to the imperials hybris. Luke just happens to be able to fire a torpedo at the right moment, while dozzens of pilots dristact the enemy. And he even has to try two times if i remember correctly.
again. Hownto destroy the death star was planed by the rebelmcommand. Exactly into detail when to fire what into what. Luke just fojnd the right moment to press the button.
this is all he can do with the force ar that moment. Feel it.
rey can feel it, direct it, bundle it and use it.
manipulating mind is a master level ability.
>>64311538
>Master level ability
According to what? Your books that are no longer canon?
>>64311503
>>64311538
>Everybody could
That just shows how the story is badly written.
>everyone could but this nameless desert boy was able to do it
Fucking nonsense.
Why is there no scientific study about why people keep defending stupid shit?
>rey can feel it, direct it, bundle it and use it.
>manipulating mind is a master level ability.
She's also been more exposed to combat than Luke.
>And that's ANH. Luke is not a hero. He trained all his life to be a pilot but they took him because they were short of pilots and during the battle, he found himself in the position to shoot.
Luke was piloting T-16 . He flew them inside Tatooine's atmosphere.
Flying outside of a planet in zero gravity is complete different thing. For one, you have to be more careful of acceleration because you can easily end up going further than what you want.
>>64311429
There are conviences in all movies fag, it just depends on how many there are.
IMO i thought TFA was an okay movie, but the pacing was definately off, events were not as memorable as you think (I saw it yesterday and remember little of the events), and character development sucked ass.
However, it was kind of interesting to see Kylo Ren as a character, and although the final battle is shit, I would like to see how he turns out
>>64311586
To no one in the triology being able to do that,,but obi wan, qui gon, yoda, luke, kylo and annakin after years of training... and rey.
>>64311654
The amount of convenience in a New Hope is gigantic, even by capeshit standards.
>character development sucked ass.
Like A New Hope.
Now go cry that I've insulted your favorite space wizard movie, you fucking manchild.
>>64311361
Any instance of Rey failing to deliver is drastically overshadowed by how often she seems to win against people who should be far out of her league. She outmaneuvers a trained TIE pilot in a ship she's never flown, with no prior piloting experience. She's a better marksman and more calm in a firefight than Stormtroopers, who according to Finn, have been raised as soldiers since they were taken as children. She can out-force a Sith Lord channeling the Dark Side on multiple occasions, and can beat him in a lightsaber duel as well. Ren might be a pushover and far overhyped, but this guy stopped a fucking blaster bolt mid-air and held it there for a good 3 minutes with little apparent effort while his guys killed the nearby town - and then Rey just whips his ass like it's no big deal. Not even Anakin, the original Jedi Jesus, was this fucking god-mode in any movie. It's the most ridiculous power-level I've seen in any Star Wars movie, and scrubbing dirt and living in a walker on Not-Tatooine and a couple of other inconsequential failures is hardly par for the course when she's single-handedly pulling everyone else's asses out of the fire the entire movie.
>>64309695
add to that defeating Ren with Skywalkers sword
>>64311718
Wannabe edgelords aren't really out of her league.
>She outmaneuvers a trained TIE pilot in a ship she's never flown
Like Luke.
>Not even Anakin, the original Jedi Jesus, was this fucking god-mode in any movie
He took down a droid spaceship at the age of 10.
>>64311649
No it shows the opposite. Its a weakness identified by other people (they died for it, remember the starting sequence), and accessabl3 by anyone with enouh luck and skill. Its just really hard and the rebels are desperate to take the gamble. Luke manages to press the button at the right time due to the force after,many sacrificed themselves tombring him to this position.
>the plot is suddenly important in a fairy tale film
At the very least TFA was more comfortable to watch than the prequels and ROTJ.
>>64311649
>That just shows how the story is badly written.
No, it just shows the weapon had a massive security failure. Everyone could doesn't mean it's simple, just that it doesn't require to be particularly skilled.
>She's also been more exposed to combat than Luke.
Absolutely irrelevant.
>Luke was piloting T-16 . He flew them inside Tatooine's atmosphere. Flying outside of a planet in zero gravity is complete different thing. For one, you have to be more careful of acceleration because you can easily end up going further than what you want.
Irrelevant to what you quoted.
>>64309577
muh runaway slave
Guys guys. What if like there a ton of deleted scenes that show things youre all arguing about on the blu ray
>>64307977
Star Wars is for fuckin children. Grow the fuck up already.
>>64311774
Luke is a experienced pilot and fliea in a fuxking wing and not a sloppy transportship to escape. That was solos part in the ot.
>>64311821
Also, TFA had actual bearable dialogue.
The dialogue in all the previous movies except Empire Strikes Back are atrocious.
>>64311820
And yet, Luke was the only one who didn't die (part of the sacrifice) and was the only one who took advantage, despite never flying an Xwing or flying in space before.
>at the right time due to the force
Well at least you're not denying that it was convenient magic bullshit.
>>64311842
>>64311842
>it just shows the weapon had a massive security failure.
That a fucking desert boy who never flew in space can take advantage of? That's not just a massive failure, that's bad writing.
>Absolutely irrelevant.
>Irrelevant to what you quoted.
Just as relevant as your comparison and conclusion.
And no, I'm not going to be politically correct and assume the original movies were not extremely badly written. Fuck the whole "Star wars originals are Holy and you can't criticize them" meme.
>>64311718
She says that she's a pilot. That's pretty much the equivalent of what we know of Luke's experience in A New Hope before he goes off and blows up the Death Star.
Also Finn was giving her tips on how to confuse their tracking, making the TIE pilots less effective.
Anyway, I'm not saying it all makes sense. A lot of what you're saying constitutes as bad writing. The only reason I'm so confused by people's responses is that the movie is no worse off than any of the other Star Wars films.
All the movies have holes in them. People shit on the movie like it's Transformers 5 or something, when I thought it was completely enjoyable when you compare it with the past 6 films in the series.
The series is a pop culture icon, but that doesn't make the films intellectual or even coherent.
>>64311698
There's good and bad to all movies; no movie will ever be 100% plot hole free, character-development rich, and memorable to watch.
Go back into your autistic fantasy where the character devel has to be perfect in order to actually count
>>64311940
He is an experienced pilot in flying inside a planet's atmosphere and when exposed to gravity. He's not experienced in flying in space.
>>64311946
I've never said the originals are perfect, I just said they were better than TFA, which is shit, plain and simple.
You dodge everything that could blow a whole in your argumentation to focus on phrasing and unnessary comparison. You think TFA was a nice movie ? Good for you, I'll keep thinking it's the biggest pile of shit that was every associated with the name "Star Wars" and we'll both stick to our opinions.
>>64311946
Yes it is convenient space magic, but it is minor. It just became major by the context set by other acting characters. Thats what i am talking about. Thats the difference. Rey escapes on her fucking own, she counters the torture by herself, ahe beats kylo by herself. She becomes a fucking marksman by herself. While being a desertdweller among aliens, she is extremly easy socializing and speaks 8mdifferent dialects of wookie. She is a walking shell for girl power fantasies.
>>64311673
Jabba names it a "simple Jedi mind trick" in ROTJ. So he probably spotted some pretty shitty Jedi doing it over the years.
>>64311962
>The only reason I'm so confused by people's responses is that the movie is no worse off than any of the other Star Wars films.
Then you are confused by the plots of the previous Star Wars films
go ahead and rewatch them
people are disappointed because this is (supposedly) the main lead we're stuck with for the next 2 movies
You're overthinking it. It's a woman who is capable and has a black boyfriend, of course people are going to hate it.
>>64311977
Yes. So he knows how to operate a flying, fats travelling object. Yes, not in space. But he never fights alone,,but has a whole eing aroundnhim. Yes he outperforms experienced tiefighters and thatsbstupid. But he is experienced in flying basics, he is a little protectdd and in a military grade interceptor. Rey flew a few simulators and that is not by any means implied in the movie, she flies a smuggling ship and is alone. Still she gets away. Just compare that to the problemsmfucking poe had to fly a comparable imperial interceptor to his xwing.
>>64311774
>a tech junkie who builds his own droid and podracer who has godly reflexes and the most Force Juice since Yoda gets a lucky opportunity when he lands inside a droid control ship - his prior tech knowledge probably lends a hand in letting him know what to shoot, and he has the assistance of the best astromech droid ever seen, who does most of the flying anyway.
Not to mention the fact that he's only in the fighter to begin with because he thought it was a good place to hide, not because he went out of his way to do so. I'm willing to let this slide, especially since (again) this is really the only thing he does aside from win at Podracing, which (AGAIN) can be attributed to natural talent. I'll let your character be the best at something, but when you're the best at everything I'm going to call bullshit.
>Luke outmaneuvers trained TIE pilots
Luke and company spend the majority of the Death Star attack getting shot full of holes and finding a lucky opening to start the trench run, and only succeeds in not getting shot the fuck down because Solo has a change of heart and comes to the rescue.
>wannabe edgelords
Kylo is a temper-tantrum throwing baby and hardly intimidating at all, but he's the son of Leia, who is twins with the most powerful force user left in the galaxy. If Rey IS Luke's daughter, they should be on equal footing in terms of power level IF force is strictly hereditary, and we weren't including the fact that Kylo has ANY sort of training at all, and no doubt more physical strength to pull from for his lightsaber duel (injured or not, that fight was bullshit).
>>64311975
>no movie will ever be 100% plot hole free
That's bullshit. There are movies which are 100% plot hole free like In Bruges and The Big lebowski (albeit I haven't watched that one in a long time).
It's not impossible for humans to write a logically consistent story. The problem lies with the plebs who mistaken what is good when they don't even have a proper education.
>>64312065
>>64312065
>You dodge everything
It's call refutation. Which is what I have done to your empty statements and double standards.
The difference between me and you is that I don't delude myself into thinking the original are good and I don't think TFA is good either, just watchable.
>hurr durr it's just my opinion
This is what every retard says when their argument has been utterly crushed. Not every opinion is equal. And people have the right to shit on it.
Now stop crying, this is just the Internet.
>>64312095
>but it is minor
Winning against the enemy is not minor. It's very major.
It's resolving a problem. It's why people put a lot of flack on deus ex machina plot devices.
>It just became major by the context set by other acting characters.
It had to because it was a fucking Death Star. Rey wasn't going to destroy a death star she was fighting against a bunch of nobodies.
You're just dumb if you can't see which is the bigger power.
>>64312100
Jabba is immune. Thats why for him it is a simple mindtrick.
>>64312131
I watched them all before TFA.
Luke isn't exactly overflowing with charm and charisma.
And if you're going to tell me Anakin made a great lead, I'll accuse you of trolling.
It's something different, so let's see what Episodes 8-9 can do with her.
>>64312146
It's a woman who is apparently perfect at everything, has shitty dialogue, and has a boyfriend after meeting him for less than a day
GTFO feminist
>>64312236
It gets major by the context. What so hard to get about that?
reys acting isnon ity own major. Because she performs at everything. Her force usage exceeds luke pre yoda by miles.
>>64311295
>T-16 are flown in a planet, not in space where there's zero gravity (or close to). It's a different set of skills.
Space battles wouldn't work the way they do because of zero g, and lack of air current... The tech of how both ships work are the same, and the only difference between crafts is thrusters, weapon type, air sealed compartment for space.
>Vader warned that technology is nothing in comparison to the power of the Force before he had to choke the admiral who insulted his religion. He was implying that it did take an a strong affinity in the Force to do it.
You are making no sense, I don't know where you are going with this, but the physical reality without the force: If a missile goes into hole, the station will blow up.
>The problem is that Luke wasn't established as a strong Force user in the first episode.
He just uses it to aim. You don't have to be a jedi master to aim a ship, when you are stated to be a good/expert pilot with the force. This feat of immaculate proportions (sarcasm)would take about no effort (to aim), and again he was supper entranced with aiming the missile with the force he was about to get blown up. AIMING, not using mind trick, lightsaber pull, or fighting with a lightsaber, just aiming. I hope I made this as clear as possible for you about what this broken character used the force for. To aim. Nothing force related was used in the actual blowing up of the Death Star, just guiding the missile into the hole.
>In a ship he's never flown before? You're stretching a lot to make your argument sound less silly that it is.
They're both single manned fighter pilots, that I'm assuming have a standard. When a pilot changes planes (not large to small or the reverse) he knows how to fly it, the planes have a standard, it's not like the new plane has alien controls that you would need years of experience in that specific vehicle to fly. Again not small/regular to jumbo airplanes that would be a change in controls.
>>64312301
>It's something different
worse
I have absolutely no investment in her character as it stands, they screwed up her depiction in 7
>>64312236
The Big lebowski is fucking dire though.
>>64312230
>Yes, not in space
That's a pretty big problem.
>flying basics
The basics of flying in space and in a planet's atmosphere are not the same thing. This is basic physics 101.
Rey and Luke are just as inexperienced in flying as each other.
>>64312232
It's worse being the best at something that results in him taking down a fucking ship the size of a city.
>>64312232
>Luke and company spend the majority of the Death Star attack getting shot full of holes and finding a lucky opening to start the trench run, and only succeeds in not getting shot the fuck down because Solo has a change of heart and comes to the rescue.
You'e not challenging the fact that an inexperienced pleb is capable of outmaneuvering trained pilots. Much less able to keep in formation without military training.
Have you seen middle Eastern fighters fight? Many of them are just pure shit who can't keep formation. And that's because they have no experience and no training.
Within ISIS (if you watched the videos), you'll notice many of them in the beginning of 2014 (before they got assblasted by the USAF) who were competent. That's because they had experience in fighting American troops. Then most of ISIS fighters now are newcomers who are incapable of fighting and needs drugs for morale.
It's the same with the Iraqi troops or the Kurds. It's especially true with the FSA (Syrian rebels). In the beginning many of them were military defectors. They had training so you could tell they fought right and that's why they secured victories in the beginning. Overtime as they got newcomers you could see in the firefights how they'd make common newbie mistakes of sticking too close or not following up in movement after cover, etc...
In short, keeping formation is harder than you think. You need to have either gotten training or fought battles before (or better yet, both).
Now don't thank me for educating you.
Hollywood is going to the shitter lads. Didn't see a movie in the last 3 years worth something. Even the biggest of the big franchise are being properly ruined.
Tbh, I can only continu to enjoy watching films thanks to Ridley Scott.
I'm young and already bored as fuck? Impossible, it's hollyweird who is crumbling.
>>64312269
he is immune, because he has strong will. I interpret the "simple" part as something common, popular among Jedi. Arguing that it must be hard because we only saw a handful of Jedi do it isn't very convincing.
Moreover when we see Qui Gonn or Kenobi do it, they do it casually, without much effort. Obi-Wan even smiles, as if he is entertaining himself. It's easy for them, probably because of their practice with the force, but still.
The problem with Rey doing it, for me, lays not in that she performed it (with 3 attempts) but that she even considered doing it, knew that it could work. She didn't see anyone do it; she just relied on the audience being familiar with the trick from previous movies.
>>64311012
>Rey do anything
i'm like : why?
we just don't know why she is doing anything
pointless character
>>64312428
Its not as different as you think,,because you think by todays standard. Luttle reminder that in your beloved vii episode xwings fought in space and the atmosphere. Its a single pilot air vehicle, with hih speed accelaratos and tons of hard and software to make it fly easier. Otherwise xwings engaging in close combat on planets would end in 90% dead pilots.
>>64312236
My statements seem empty because you only adress part of the argument. Of course opinions are not equal, but once again, I've never said that. Nevertheless, you just refuse to argue and only consider bits of pieces of my argumentation, so there's not much to add.
>>64312304
>>64312323
See >>64312428
Luke doesn't have military training to keep in a formation or to follow orders well. He also never flew in space.
>Space battles wouldn't work the way they do because of zero g, and lack of air current... The tech of how both ships work are the same, and the only difference between crafts is thrusters, weapon type, air sealed compartment for space.
In zero g, it's very easy to end up in places where you don't want to because speed is easier to achieve.
>>64312323
>You don't have to be a jedi master to aim a ship
He had to have magic to aim when he never operated weaponry of an aicraft he never flew in zero g at such high speed.
>>64312403
Yes but it doesn't have plot holes. A movie can be medicore or bad yet still have not plotholes if it's bland.
Also, Star Wars is dire as well.
>>64311295
Faggot tranny cunt
The skillset is dropping explosives in small holes, that's what luke did you cunt.
Yeah Luke was the only fucking one who did it because he was the only one able to use the force. And it wasn't even him that did it, he needed Obi Wan's ghost to help him.
>Implying he wasn't given basic training on how to fly the x-wing off screen
>Implying character development is a plothole because the protagonist saves the day in an unlikely way
>Implying any movie where an underdog wins against the odds is terrible
No, fuck you, you fucking ugly shit Australian cunt.
>>64312428
I'm convinced you are ignoring the fact that Luke is a trained pilot, he isn't just out maneuvering tie fighter pilots out of nowhere, you are just shit posting around this fact.
You cannot use the fact the T-16 is an atmosphere craft for skill explanation. It's planet side solely due to thruster capabilities and surviving the vacuum of space. Space battle in Star Wars is part of the science fiction, the battles are just replications of flying inside an atmosphere, you could not maneuver that way in space. The skill set is the same.
>>64311012
>The ONLY thing Luke does that's worthy of note in the first film is blowing up the Death Star
Oh, that's the only thing, blowing up the death star? That's it?
I dunno if you get it, but blowing up the death star is not only a fuckton more important than everything Rey did in TFA put together, but a hell of a lot more difficult as well(it was a million to one or some shit).
Saying she's more of a Mary Sue because he ONLY put a stop to a galaxy-scale menace is ridiculous.
>>64312501
Yes and quigon and obi wan are jedi masters with dozzens of years of training. That is why it is easy to them and shouldn't be for rey.
jabba speakes of it as simple, because it has no effect on him.
>>64309520
>>64309583
Because she's the next fucking Jedi you idiots.
>>64312546
It's very different and Physics agrees.
Flying an Xwing (by the way Luke flew a T-16), in a planet is very different from flying in space simply because of not air resistance and no gravity (the last one is pretty big).
And it's especially different when the guy never flew the space.
Are you so fucking retarted to believe in Luke's first try in flying in space, he was not only able to fly, keep in formation but also able to properly take down a Death Star?
>>64312551
I addressed your arguments. Just because I'm not highlighting all of them doesn't mean I'm not adressing them you dumb fuck.
But of course, like a typical retard in this website, you think greentext is everything.
>>64312570
See>>64312428
>>64312609
Luke is not a trained space pilot. Bring evidence that he flew in space before or be quiet.
>>64312643
No one knew that. Leia knew her for like an hour.
>>64312570
>he was the only one able to use the force
That's a typical Gary Stu excuse.
>he could do what he needed because of magic!
>off screen
Oh so you're one of those retards. Offscreen argument are nonsensical because they can be implied with one line of diaologue.
>>64312555
He had to press a fucking red button in a blinking auto aiming photontorpedo system. It is beyond me why you think the xwing would be hard to fly for a person knkwing its controls from other jets. Thenfalcon is the opposite as it is kept as haptic as possible, which soll even says in vii, due to solos ability to outperform automated guidance.
>>64312428
>previously established characters have some talent
>previously established characters sometimes get lucky and blow up big things
>this is pretty much all they're good for until they get some training
>Rey is good at literally everything she touches, with no experience
>Rey beats people on a regular basis who have all rights to be better than her at said task
Are you not seeing the issue here? The issue isn't that a character did an unbelievable thing, it's that that they did an unbelievable thing half a dozen times and never failed and never had any reason to be able to do what they did in the first place. It's jarring, it's ridiculous, and it's insulting to think that we're just expected to accept this at face value and agree that Rey is the best woman to ever do anything in the entire galaxy, and will beat anyone at anything at any point in time.
>>64312675
We know it would be a massiv difference, IF IT WASNT FOR THOUSANDS OF SUPPORT AND GUIDANCE SYSTEMS ALLOWING BOTH PLANETARY AND SPACE COMBAT FOR THE SAME FUCKING INTERCEPTOR. HOW CAN YOU EVEN IGNORE THAT? THE FALCON IS BUILD DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE IT IS A SMJGGLING SHIP DEPENDEND ON SOLOS PILOTING SKILLS.
>>64312729
>>64312675
Lick my salty canadian balls, cunts
>>64312731
After flying through near the death stars and avoiding the structural obstacles.
Do you also believe in logical continuity of fairy tales?
>>64312752
Luke is not an established character having talent. He's a slob who's talentless.
The only reason the viewers are to believe he can do things right is because of space magic that he somehow masters to be able to fly a ship he's never flown before and the viewers are also led to believe that fucker can fly in military formation/operate along trained pilots just fine.
You idiots hate SJWs so much you've become just as stupid.
>>64312813
Even with the techonology to help with aim, you still have to fly the ship. Luke never flew a ship in space, let alone got any military training to keep formation.
And keeping formation is everything.
>>64312831
Again you are treating the xwing for an interceptor from the 80s you donkey.
>First Order are literal space Nazis who have a giant death star and tons of troops.
>Only use it once they decide to destroy the republic because they want the map and the Resistance has it
>Even though the map could easily be in the hands of someone in the Republic because the Resistance is allied with the Republic
Someone explain this shit
>>64312831
Luke trains in his T16 all the time. He's a great shot. As said by him, and vetted by his friend Biggs. He wanted to go to the academy and was going to.
Piloting is his main skill. He's hapless at most everything else in the first movie, and needs rescued or helped repeatedly. He finally comes through on his one tangible skill (after Han takes Vader out).
kid's movie made for braindead audience.
properly ruined great franchise
>Han Solo, Chewie, Finn and Rey have explosives that they decide to plant inside the thermal osc
>Han and Chewie go into it and start planting bombs
>Finn and Rey climb a ladder and don't even have any bombs to plant
Someone tell me why the fuck they went up the ladder, it seemed like it was just for visual effect.
I hope Luke kills Rey in the opening of episode 8
>>64307977
Just look at the people doing damage control. The film was so bad they come up with every tiny detail they can that wasn't shown in the movie to show why it's good. The writers don't have to do shit when they have mindless drones doing all the work for them.
>>64312877
No.
>>64312890
Again, flying in space isn't the same thing as flying inside a planet's atmosphere well affected by its gravitational force.
Even if you assume Luke is the best pilot in flying within a planet's atmosphere, he still never flew out.
Maybe he'd be an elite pilot after training to fly in space. But he didn't even fly.
And you're assuming that on his first try, he can keep in formation (military training and discipline), can stand the stress and last but certainly not least can fly on his first fucking try?
Your stupidity knows no bound.
>>64312932
Stop projecting your assumptions on others.
>>64312980
The mindless drones are the ones who think the original Star Wars movies are a classic.
They were never more than enjoyable flicks for children. TFA is at least a film.
>>64312831
Find a post where I've mentioned SJWs anywhere.
>>64312752
>>64312232
>>64311718
>>64311012
>>64310157
I don't take issue with the fact that Rey is a woman and manages to be the best at everything - I take issue with the fact that Rey is better than everyone at everything when she has nothing that would indicate she should be. No training. No implied natural talent. Nothing. You're pointing fingers yelling "SJW Hater!" when what's really going on is that people found a rather poorly-written character in a movie that was otherwise reasonably good and decided to call it how they saw it.
>>64311880
>>Guys come on! the movie was good but we had to make it crap for screening!
Yeah, no thanks
>>64312555
>military training to keep in a formation
I really have no idea where you are expanding this argument from.
>He also never flew in space.
Irrelevant space combat in real life as you are trying to equate a science fiction film to is impossible due to zero g and lack of atmosphere for air currents. So the only thing that can change feasibly is the speed of the ship, maneuvering in any kind in a realistic sense is impossible so the style of maneuvering is basically atmospheric standard maneuvering, saying that it's in space is you shit posting.
>In zero g, it's very easy to end up in places where you don't want to because speed is easier to achieve.
Already talked about thrusters, he is a expert trained pilot, I'm sure he can adjust speed...
>He had to have magic to aim when he never operated weaponry of an aircraft he never flew in zero g at such high speed.
read above stating zero g besides speed is impractical and isn't a real counter argument in this universe. Also as described in my previous post both ships aren't that different, including this "alien weapon system" which I'm sure they just explained it to him and expert trained pilot before they left.
people will defend this as an interesting character
backstory: "dropped off on a dangerous desert planet as a young child"
result:
>great engineer
>great melee artist (trains with a fucking stick)
>great pilot
later
>great marksman
>instantly loved and trusted by everyone
>trains herself how to use Force powers on the fly and under duress
>beats the only capable baddie we come across with authority
this reads like an 11 year old girl wrote herself into a fanfic sequel to Star Wars
>>64312983
You fucking do.
the xwing has obviously supporting systems. He fihts multiple times in space and on the planetary surface maned by the same pilots. Even the fuxking eurofighter has systems allowing the pilot easier flight.
so the border you draw between planetary and space combat is completly isiotic, because its heavily implied thst bith interceptors tie fighter and xwing can fly in both ways.
>>64313014
You mean both are drones, one isn't any better than the other and that's a big "at least".
>>64312983
>he's trying to argue for the difference with regards to space vs. surface gravity
Now THAT is grasping at straws lmao
brave boy, let's start looking at the physical intricacies of Star Wars, I don't think you want to play that game my friend because I can go in on another level on Rey's "ability"
>a small, frail girl beats off bands of marauders for over a decade with a fucking stick, in a universe with blasters and other advanced weapons
Want to consider the physical feasibility of this?
>>64313084
>>Great marksman
I'll never get over her short showdown with a storm trooper in the woods, both at point blank and he just stands there missing while she no scopes him or some shit.
I hope Poe and Finn get more of a story together in the next films. They had great chemistry and their bromance was fucking great.
Also kinda want to see some kind of confusion with Finn and his past. Maybe he disagrees with the way the Resistance are doing shit. Maybe there are some First Order policies he agrees with. Maybe he gets tempted to return.
The generic "I GOTZ TO DO THE RIGHT THING" excuse is pretty shit.
>>64313124
I do not even like episode iv. Its a simplicit adventure story. But it is logical innits boundaries and character design. Kylo is that too. Finn to a very very low level as well. Rey is just stupid and ruins the story. What i say makes vii worse than iv is that it cannot operate as a singular movie, while iv can.
>>64313196
She picks up a pistol for the first time and after a missed shot or two is hitting everything she wants lol
that is ridiculous, it's a pistol
especially in a universe where misses are common and an expected part of both sides
>>64313084
The disgusting thing about this is that they play her off in the movie as this deep character with real struggles. If you're going to make a mary sue, embrace it, don't try to say it's something else when it isn't.
ANH is a classic since 1977 to multiple different generation of people.
TFA will not make it past 2016. Easily forgotten.
>>64313260
>weaknesses: she misses her fambly, internal struggle
L M F A O
>>64313044
Her opposition aren't really something to write home about anyway. There are no Vaders or Admiral Tarkin she's fighting against.
>>64313074
>>64313074
>I really have no idea where you are expanding this argument from.
That's because you're too dumb and you believe it's perfectly understandable for someone with no military training to stay in formation.
>rrelevant space combat in real life as you are trying to equate a science fiction film to is impossible due to zero g and lack of atmosphere for air currents. So the only thing that can change feasibly is the speed of the ship, maneuvering in any kind in a realistic sense is impossible so the style of maneuvering is basically atmospheric standard maneuvering, saying that it's in space is you shit posting.
That's an idiotic argument that show how desperate you are to defend your shit movie.
First, if there is no realism. Why include gravity? Why are there humans in the first place? Why not have the sky be the ground and the ground be the sky?
By making the argument that realism doesn't matter in places where there are no explanation, you're essentially saying any plothole can be excused by its fiction.
By that argument, any flaw can be excused by that argument. The criticism against Rey can also be excused by saying "It's not supposed to be realistic".
>>64313074
>Already talked about thrusters, he is a expert trained pilot, I'm sure he can adjust speed...
It's not about adjusting speed you idiot. It's about being used to flying in space and knowing exactly how to play with the ships truster.
>I'm sure
That's all you got. Faith but no evidence.
>isn't a real counter argument in this universe.
It is.
>explained it to him and expert trained pilot before they left.
If explain is enough, everyone would be able to shoot a gun and operate in warzones and win. But that's not the case, and even modern history shows otherwise.
>>64313124
If TFA fanboys are claiming it's a classic, you'd be right.
>>64313084
>this reads like an 11 year old girl wrote herself into a fanfic sequel to Star Wars
target audience
>>64312675
>Luke is not a trained space pilot. Bring evidence that he flew in space before or be quiet.
You are shit posting
>It's very different and Physics agrees.
your whole argument doesn't even work in star wars they wouldn't be able to maneuver to your "standards" at all in the universe because none of the ships would be able to maneuver in space in the first place... The only difference between flying in space and flying with the atmosphere in star wars is whether or not your cockpit is air sealed. Calm your fucking autism.
It would've made so much more sense if Leia died instead of Han.
When Han first speaks of Kylo Ren on the Falcon with Finn and Rey, he doesn't even mention the relation. He just says a Jedi Apprentice turned against Luke. You can tell he just really doesn't see him as his son anymore. Like he's disowned him.
Then he meets up with Leia, who's essentially the opposite. She clearly believes that Ren can return to the light side. And at first, Han's having none of it.
>we've lost our son forever
>if Luke couldn't help him then how could I?
He's clearly lost all hope. But after a minute long conversation with Leia that essentially boils down to "B-BUT HAN YOU'RE HIS DAD JUST BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF LOVE", he's somehow swayed. It completely goes against his stubborn character.
What SHOULD have happened, is Han should've confronted Ren on the bridge, maybe fought him or some shit, and then Leia would come down to break it up. She would then try to convince Ren to come home, Ren would kill Leia, and Han would vow for revenge.
Makes so much more sense.
>>64313124
>both are equally bad
>everything equal everything
>we all the same inside
>peace sign
faggot
confirmed for shit posting
>>64309406
>Luke was a trained pilot and it was well established in the film. Making a lucky shot because you had faith is a lot more believable than becoming an instant Jedi master.
Honestly this.
I mean the kid specifically boasts:
>"I used to bullseye womprats in my T-16 back home"
so the farmer kid uses his spare time and money to blow the shit out of some giant 6 foot long rats that hang out in beggars canyon or some shit.
this kid was flying from the age of like 10 or 11 up until he was 17 and then got his hands on an X-wing.
I don't think it's that far fetched to say the kid probably COULD have done it on his own without force guidance from obi wan which in my opinion was only there to tell him to trust his insticnts rather than the targeting computer of the x-wing which gold leader trusted in and couldn't land a hit.
Perhaps the rebellions shitty targeting computers need to be re-calibrated.
>he's down to arguing Physics
>regarding a movie that had a station with a cannon the caliber of the original death star and that used Suns for ammo
>>64313144
>Now THAT is grasping at straw
You're an idiot who can't take criticism.
It's not grasping at straw if it's crucial to a character being able to solve the problem of the movie (the Death Star).
No one is examining the intricacies of Luke taking a shit.
>Want to consider the physical feasibility of this?
The same reason Luke could do bullshit: Space magic.
Both movies are bad, don't get me wrong.
>don't think you want to play that game my friend
You're not as smart as you think you are. You're hands are reaching further than they can grasp and you don't have the sense to know better.
>>64313431
>You are shit posting
Typical response by someone who just lost the argument.
>>64313431
>your whole argument doesn't even work in star wars
Of course it does. Or else why are people led to believe someone can die after being shot by a blaster? Or that someone can die as a result of an explosion.
You can't cherry pick Physics.
Then again, I'm not even criticizing other stupid aspects of the movie. That's irrelevant.
What's relevant is the fuck up when the Gary Stu character can solve the movies problem because convenience and space magic when he was never established as a character to be able to do so.
>>64313370
You still dont get that xwings are literaly build for bothnforms of combat as shown multiple times and your whole argument is stupid, because you cannot understand that there is a whole ship computer helping out for exactly thst situation to not crash the fihter instantly.
>>64313526
>durr hurr it's all space magic, bof movies are bad
Just fuck off, you have nothing of value to add, especially if you aren't even a fan, you're just stirring the potty for the sake of it
>>64313515
Flying a T-16 in a planet's atmosphere =/= flying a XWING in zero gravity while keeping military formation.
>>64313517
>arguing about good writing
>in a movie about a Gary Stu taking down a space station strong enough to blow up a planet because space magic
Also the fact that you're defending a children's movie is the saddest part.
>>64313443
maybe from a POTTERY perspective. other than that your idea is stupid. i kinda agree about solo being unrealistic, but that's explained by the fact that he REALLY didn't want to be stuck in the sequels.
