How is the Lore/Fluff?
>>46900765
Not bad
>>46900765
kinda of a retarded.
>implying anyone plays Kings of War for the fluff
But it's not too bad. It's young, but there's potential for growth.
The world has survived two apocalypses that can all be traced back to an elf who couldn't keep his dick to himself.
An Angel told the elf he'd get laid if he made a magic mirror, so the elf made that magic mirror. The only problem is he used the essence of the gods to do it. So when he shows the hot princess his magic mirror, she calls him a faget and smashes it, which makes all the gods "die" and get reborn as good/evil versions, who promptly flip the fuck out and summon shit loads of angels / demons to fight everything. This destroys Not Rome. The war ends when Not Conan grows wings and punches Satan so hard it creates an alternate reality called the Abyss where all the demons go.
Then a few centuries later an evil God called Winter comes back and tries to kill everyone while making ice puns. Luckily Not Jesus is there to save the day.
A few centuries later you have the present day. Most of the setting is dark age "Your Dudes" kingdoms. Major powers include good aligned fascist dwarves, the Not-Byzantine Empire that summon armies of angels, a Morgoth-expy called Morgoth who is raising the dead, an Arab-Egyptian Empire ruled by snakemen necromancers, and vikings that worship a three headed abomination who predates the ancient gods and has a massive hate boner for dragons.
I certainly like the Beastmen in Kings of War more than the WHFB ones. They have more of a Narnia vibe to them and they're Neutral, leaning towards Good.
>>46902176
it kinda remind me to lotr in the sense that during the silmarillion everything was magical with gods and their agents everywhere; but after 2 apocalypsis shit has become more mundane and necromancers fashionable.
It's still retarded, but there is some charm in it.
>>46900765
Literally half the world map is "anything goes here, adventurers set up little kingdoms like all the time, you could totally have your dudes come from this place"
>>46900765
The worst part, the rules are some of the best and the minis go from totally retarded to very good, but the fluff isn't devoloped in any way.
>>46902274
The part I like the most is than all the cultures are flourishing tough, even the elves are founding new cities and stuff instead of "woe me and my race is cursed to disappear :(", (even if you like that, the Southern and Eastern elves have some of this theme too, losing land fast to the desert).
It could be cool if we got a Mantica like the Warhammer thread had the Endhammer tough...
>>46902547
Undeveloped is better than bad at least.
And to be fair to them about the minis most of the minis just have bad paint jobs and improve drastically when painted by anyone else. A lot of their plastics have great detail that just doesn't show on the pictures at all. It's like they just took pics of the design team's personal armies that they all rush painted in time for a big game.
Anyone know what the fuck is happening with the Twilight Kin?
They were a nice mix of Dark Elf and Chaos Warriors but it looks like they're getting redone with new fluff? They weren't in the new rulebook at all.
>>46902622
Mantic needs to up his game in lots of places, and presenting they minis is one of them. I like the guys, but I think they got so many things in they hands when polishing some stuff could be better for them in the long term.
>>46902651
They are reworking their fluff, models and rules.
>>46903145
We have previews or something? I liked the empire of dust ones, they had a Ghoaul Stargate vibe than was pretty cool.
>>46903239
There is only a provisory army list for people who want to play with their minis.
Soo far i think they are going to follow the same line of demonic elves. Hope they become more like Skorne than Legions, just to have more personality than just another emo-elves army.
>>46903386
>more like Skorne than Legions
?
>>46903600
Armys from warmahordes, I'm kinda tired of the emo looking elves, so elves that look more like angry dudes (like skorne) would be cool.
>>46903751
The skorne also have lots of interesting themes, plus lots of monsters. Shame I don't like the overly cartoon looking minis, the setting is pretty cool.
>>46900765
Do you like the Bible? If yes, you might like it.
>>46902547
The Rules really aren't that great. They're very unbalanced toward flyers.
>>46904365
Haven't had problems against flyers soo far, but because you can't block their charges its make it a little more harder to play around them. The biggest problem are individual flyers with high defense, their nimble and flying are a problem and with their high defense they are hard to stop.
>>46905219
Then you haven't been playing top players. All the top players use flyer spam.
>>46905518
Sure, most likely the flyer meta hasn't reach where I play. I think this problem could be fixed easily if they just allowed us to block flyers charges with cheaper units.
>>46901228
>kinda of a retarded.
So it should suit Warhammer refugees just fine!
I like what little there is. Especially the ogres.
>>46900765
races are progressive instead of regressive
>>46902176
Sounds like a Jojo's Bizarre Adventure plot.
>>46900765
It's actually kinda refreshing to not have the armies being slavishly tied to the fluff.
>>46902651
You can download their rules for free off of the Mantic website
They are getting redone and rereleased eventually
>>46909705
I really like the your dudes part of it myself. There aren't many games that are extensively supported that give you the same level of creative freedom. Being able to use any companies minis and having 20+ factions with lots of units that are left ambigious modeling wise helps a lot. All they need is more fluff(Tough as they don't have seperate rulebooks for each army) and more options for individual heroes(I want flying vampire lords without having to pay for a one off magic item).
>>46911727
I agree with named characters. Plus they can easily be added without clashing with Your Dudes potential.
>>46906744
This. The Ogres are fantastic and a decent stand-alone faction of sorts with real background that both breaks common convention and fits them really well.
>>46914263
Warhammer really became to centric on named characters. I think it becomes a problem hen you need to use a named character to unlock a certain playstyle.
Minimal, which is what I want. I don't want the fluff to ever get to a point where it says 'No, you can't do that, that contradicts the fluff."
>>46911727
>I want flying vampire lords without having to pay for a one off magic item
Have you considered that there's a reason you can't take as many flying vampire lords as you want?
>>46916775
...actually you can throw them on the Pegasus AND Dragon mount options.
Of course, they lose the Individual status which nerfs their defense effectiveness, and their defense drops as well.
If they tweaked the price of the flying boots and had it drop defense, I doubt anyone would have complaints other than it being too weak.
It's a bit generic, but it works well.
It's got some solid bits. I like how they explain why necromancy is evil. See, when you raise a zombie from the dead, you drag a soul from the afterlife and stuff back into their corpse. If the zombie get's destroyed, the soul can't return to the afterlife and is forced to wander the Earth for the rest of time.
>>46916796
Mind you, losing individual status is also good in some ways.
It means if they get the extra attacks from side/back charges.
>>46916841
Double edged sword.
The big complaint is Maxxed defense units that you can't flank and therefore are nearly unkillable.
You drop a flank-capable flying unit in someone's lines, it's going to take it up the rear just as it will dish that out.
I mainly use individuals as anti-flyer. Have them hover slightly behind the main line, if anything drops behind free rotation then charge.
>>46916807
So fighting zombies is also evil?
>>46916966
I think the soul is already fucked anyway. It does suggest that necromancy might become an increasing problem over time as the world becomes increasingly haunted. People should want to be cremated in this setting.
>>46916994
>>46916807
Necromancy is a HUGE problem in this setting. Like, on the scale of the Borg in Star Trek and if left unchecked would crush civilized nations.
The Undead faction are scattered necromancers and the few living creatures associated, and they threaten organized nations. And this is with magic anyone can learn.
The most infamous of necromancers, Morgoth, has singlehandedly poses one of the biggest national security threats to the Dwarves in particular and has been slowly grinding the Dwarves back in an unending campaign without rest.
You ever wonder if why in DC comics normal people can learn magic and get on super-hero level, the world isn't completely spiraling out of control? Well, that's necromancy in this. Shits fucked as it should be.
>>46917101
The solution is to kill all would be Necromancers.
>>46916807
>>46916966
>>46916994
I should also point out, whenever a soul is dragged out of the afterlife and forced to become a zombie, the evil god of the dead laughs.
>>46917101
>>46917167
I'm actually fluffing my undead as the wandering souls being bound by a group of necromancers. Painting the whole thing ghostly, a few GW spirit hosts, but the rest is reaper ghosts, counting them as Wraiths. Also going to have some suits of armourwith ghostly swirls coming off them as Revenants, and large ghosts as Wights.
>>46918854
It sounds a bit like the wild ride/Santa Compaña, I like it.
>>46903239
>I liked the empire of dust ones, they had a Ghoaul Stargate vibe than was pretty cool.
Wait what? How did I miss these? Cant find them with a google search so for or on mantics blog
>>46920688
Some bro in some con took pics of them, here the blog.
http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=168717
I would make them less cartoony (specially the weapons) tough.
>>46920871
And the concepts.I really hate how slow is dumping in 4chan,we should be able to post 5 pics at the same times...
>>46916807
This is dumb, smiting undead should free the souls back to heaven (or wherever). Otherwise eventually we're gonna run out of souls.
>>46920951
That's probably why necromancy is evil.
We know if the Empire of Dust use the same kind of Necro or is another thing altogether (I Never got uncharted empires).
>>46918854
Sounds cool. Post pics at some point.
>>46920937
Yeah, should be easy to implement. 8ch has that but it's a pretty dead site
>>46921036
That and sound webms would improve 4chan a bit I say.
>Tfw Mantic isn't putting all his meat for KoW.
If only, they could have gripped an even larger portion of the market, now is a good time with Brets, Elfs and Tomb Kings players left in the dust.
>>46903914
Im not a huge fan of that setting but I love the convergence of cyriss, and while I feel there is room for edgy elves, dark elves might do better with something of an ancient fascist styling
>>46916640
That's one of the few things I've liked about age of sigmar, most of the special characters that were basically must-have for any army were remade as generics, meaning you can have multiples and even make up your own characters again
>>46916730
Well it already does that to people who want to play non evil undead (Ala tomb kings), as necromancy in this setting is basically ruining the good half of the afterlife
>>46921666
Actually the haunting ghosts from all the destroyed undead might form their own faction, more like Revenants then mummies though
>>46904365
They're not unbalanced at all, its just Warhammer refugees being unable to cope with angel jumptroops and do proper rearguard.
And people forgetting that flyers still need to pivot and turn was a big problem too for some reason.
>>46921666
There is a neutral Undead faction on the way, it's just taking forever.
>>46922298
I didn't know it, any info about them?
>>46920975
>>46920955
>>46920937
>>46920871
>GW squats Tomb Kings
>Mantic makes Empire of Dust models
>>46922683
The Ophidians, they have a history with Empire of Dust. Their fluff is pretty much covered in the Empire's section of Uncharted Empires.
>>46922848
With some luck they will not botch it. I don't like the cartoony look of they minis, but I liked the abyssals.
>>46923755
Kind of one of the things that makes KoW pretty perfect for its "your dudes," feeling: there's no need to use their miniatures.
If they don't do well with the EoD minis, you can always get skellies from someone else that suits your fancy and use them.
That and also the fact that you don't need to spend forever removing minis after a fight. Being able to admire the full formations clashing is perfect "my dudes," material.
>>46923931
Yeah, it's pretty cool, and easy to adapt any kind of low power settings in there. It's a pity we don't ahve all the frenzy of yore in that regard, the armies than / tg/ made weren't that bad.
So my group will be trying Kings of War out soon asany of my friends are not digging 9th age.
I play Tomb Kings and Wood Elves primarily, what would be the closest KoW counterparts?
Bonus points for equivalents to my friends armies, Vampire Counts, Orcs & Goblins, High Elves, Dark Elves, Empire and Bretonnia
>>46926722
That's easy bro, Tomb kings are Empire of Dust, in the Uncharted Empires books, while Wood Elves you can use two list, Forces of natures if you want or Elves. Vampire Counts are better as Undead, Orcs and Goblins it depends of what do you have more, both are they own list but you can ally 25% of your list from other armies with the same alignament so isn't that bad. High elves are Elves, Dark Elves Twilight Kin, and Empire or Kingdoms of Men or League of Rhodia (it's the empire with even more halfings), Bretonia can be Kingdoms of Men or the Brotherhood, the later is better tough.
So just how popular is Kings of War? I've been wanting to get back into the hobby and was considering trying it out since WHFB was dropped. Will I have more luck finding KoW games at my LGS or people still playing 8th/Trying 9th? I want to jump back in and I'd rather avoid AoS but I want to be able to actually get games.
>>46928057
Every reply to this is going to be anecdotal as fuck, but I see more people playing KoW then AoS at my FLGS. Part of that is probably due to Australia tax on GW products, general anti-GW sentiment, and the store having a huge range of cheap reaper stuff everyone is excited to use.
>>46928364
I sort of figured it would be, but I wanted to get a general feel for it. Also, so you can use models outside the range? That along with the "your dudes" part of it people were mentioning was attractive to me.
>>46928408
> so you can use models outside the range?
That in particular made it an obvious choice for WHFB refugees. Shit, I didn't even play WHFB, but I already had 2 armies from my brother's old stuff, and my LOTR stuff from when I was a teenager. Bought 2 more armies super cheap because I get carried away, and have plans for a third, all under $200 (AU). Unheard of with GW prices.
>>46928408
There is no requirement whatsoever to use Mantic Miniatures. Mantic doesn't give a shit, and there is nobody to enforce it anyway.
>>46928536
I'm a bit disappointed in wargamers that they don't realize this is true for any game. Good on mantic for making it official and tournament support and all, but it really shouldn't be unusual.
>>46916807
>I like how they explain why necromancy is evil. See, when you raise a zombie from the dead, you drag a soul from the afterlife and stuff back into their corpse.
And that wasn't obvious already?
>>46928573
It's probably because the game by nature is generic enough to allow you to use any company's figures. There are tons of companies who make elves, dwarves, medieval soldiers and such. Steampunk robots and zombie hookers, not so much. Most games are just made to sell that company's specific miniatures after all.
It's great as if you think that the Mantic figures are cheap and bad, then you can always just go with their GW equivalent or buy from boutique suppliers. If you want your figures to be even cheaper, then you can look at Perry and Reaper to satisfy your needs.
I know that Flames of War adopts the same stance with third party miniatures, but even that is limited by its setting as a German soldier is going to be a German soldier, whereas an Abyssal Dwarf can range from the stitchpunk Confrontation or the Japanese Dwarf Wars ones. It is great as any figure that you like can see play on the table without breaking the rules/lore.
>>46920951
That'a only a problem if reincarnation is the general rule of the metaphysics. Or the universe is full of souls and they just come from somewhere else.
>>46920871
>>46920937
>>46920955
>>46920975
Oh cool. A bit on the cheesy side, but I could see a lot of people liking these.
I hope they make plastic models for the not Chaos Warriors army. I have been kinda wanting less over the top Frazetta barbarians than the one GW has been making for years now.
>>46928640
It didn't typically work like that in Warhammer Fantasy. There the necromancers would most of the time just inject magic into a dead body.
>>46928573
To be completely honest, I grew up playing at a local GW here and they don't allow none Citadel figures so, yeah it's not something I'm entirely used to. Even when I grew up, the folks whose place we played at were pretty diehard fans and didn't like proxying even if it was just units from another supplier.
>>46928573
It seems obvious to me where I live, but here we have one of the most successful FLGS's in Sweden and another successful FLGS in the same city. On top of that we also have a gaming club that is goverment funded.
>>46928057
In my store it has monthly events, and has overtaken WHFB and AoS with ease. It isn't up there yet, but it has quickly consumed WHFB's niche in my area.
>>46928057
If it helps you, the tournie scene in Spain is growing very well, but of course it depends a lot where do you live.
Just completed a slow grow league at my local gaming club. Had about 8 players in it from a club with 50 or so regular members. I'd say that's pretty good compared to where Warhammer was after 8th.
>>46928843
Did you see mom ones or the avatars of war? Also you could convert gripping vikings or something for more down to earth ones.
>>46927034
Thank Bro!
>>46928794
Oh, they tried it with FoW, but historical gamers are a hardy bunch.
>>46900765
What's that?
>>46902176
Was Winter a wicked ones?
>>46931285
It's like WHFB but not dead and actually playtested
>>46931883
What's the better balance game between KoW and 9th Age then?
>>46931939
Kings of War. 9th Age has some nice ideas, but there is a lot of bullshit, and some of the designers are simply too stuck up to admit any wrongdoing. Neither have WHFBs fluff in the end, so pick based on what people nearby actually play or your preference in the rules.
>>46922848
And fails for the most part.
The Tomb Kings concepts are all around better, only the Enslaved come close and even they fall short of the Ushabti.
Mantic is never going to do something better in the same vein as Fantasy and they really should stop trying.
>>46928536
>>46928573
>>46928794
That's all well and good until Mantic decides they suddenly like or need money, then their tune will change. "Oy, that army better be 50% made of our crap if you want to play in a tournament!"
>>46932704
I doubt see why or how their tune will ever change, considering that there are more rules for models than there are models that Mantic makes. Battlefront does the same thing, and they have one of the most popular games on the market. It looks like a completely unsubstantiated speculation.
>>46932704
Eventually they are going to demand more of their minis in tournaments, soo far I have heard they give extra points for bringing certain % mantic minis to some tournaments.
But there is nothing to be alarmed for now. Once they start demanding pure breed mantic armies, then we are going to have problems.
>>46932858
That is only for their painting competition though, and even then they made an exception with last year's Clash of Kings for the winner.
R8 my shitty spoop list.
>>46933156
I was going to recommend getting spears for the skellies instead of the rats to make a good roadblock, but then I realized that you were playing at 500 points. You can anvil and faster anvil with that list well enough, have fun.
>>46933191
And the 750 point version?
>>46933205
Assuming that you can actually choose the models that you want, the Varangur allies probably aren't a good idea, especially as there is no one nearby to help them with nerve tests. You might want to switch the Revenant King with a chieftan if possible.
>>46933250
Varanguar was there for some archery. I can swap over to KoM archers for pew-pew, and probably should.
>>46933104
oic, well it make sense that rule is for the painting competition.
>>46933274
That makes sense then. The stalkers are better than either the undead bowmen or the KoM bowmen. You may just want to take a regiment of them, and put the rest of the points into either a ranged Varangur hero/support or more bodies for the undead side, as opposed to the warband.
>>46933320
Unfortunately, those guys only come in Troops. I might stall that for the 1k+ builds, so I can fit the warband and two troops+a Magus, or something.
>>46921705
They're all nimble.
>>46932750
>That's all well and good until Mantic decides they suddenly like or need money, then their tune will change
And that's when I stop playing.
Not much would change, really. I just play with friends, not super into tournaments.
>>46935089
Still can't pivot before a charge, though.
>>46935249
Shouldnt need to. Fly over a unit, pivot to the side, then rear or flank a unit down the line next turn. with a 20 inch charge and a 180 degree effective field of view from the leader point that shouldnt be hard. That or get the elven thing that gives you nimble and pivot twice, ending up facing the rear of an enemy unit
>>46935459
>That or get the elven thing that gives you nimble
Oh wait, flyers already get the nimble rule, nevermind
>>46931342
I think Winter might have been an unintentional demonified version of Frozen.
So is there any significant benefit to playing the League of Rhodia over Kingdom of Man with Dwarf allies if I would like to proxy the WHFB Empire? The halfling stuff is kinda uninteresting and I don't care much for proxying Demigryphs.
>>46929929
I though WarThrone was a lock-up in continental Europe? If KoW is taking off there, with 9th Age fizzling in US, then where else is left outside Nottingham?
>>46928518
>under $200 (AU). Unheard of with GW prices.
Yeah, that'd get you three mounted knights and a dragon at GW prices :)
>>46938502
So 9'th Age is basically just a patched version of WHFB 8'th editon, right? I can see why the interest would be limited if that's the case.
>>46938502
War Throne is nice but not very supported, also is slower than Kow. I would buy AoW minis/Divine rage ones before mantic ones (the quality is better, and Mom designs are too sweet and true scale) but the rules I see more for mass battles played are Old-Hammer or KoW (a few people pushing they own comp sometimes, but in a year or two, but I don't think it has any future).
>>46902176
>implying there is any reason to play KoW
>>46941806
>implying there is any real reason to play any game that isn't about making money
>>46942335
>implying there is any real reason to play any game that isn't about passing the time on the way to the grave
>>46905666
Warhammer refugees, haha nice one
>>46901078
>>46901228
/thread
>>46932704
I would go for a more true scale myself but I don't see them that bad honestly, the new plastic kits look pretty nice. But I'm sure Divine rage will do something for brets and tomb kings in the future , I only need to wait.
>>46944686
I get the feeling that the general fantasy wargame demographic doesn't care much for truescale. It's harder to make the fine detailes look impressive.
>>46945069
I prefer a more plausible look in mi minis, think Demons/dark souls instead of Wow, perhaps is harder but the look is worth it imho.
>>46945194
I'm just saying that it's easier to work with embelished proportions than realistic ones and you can easier avoid the uncanny valley look.
>>46946377
Sisters were heroic and were Uncanny valley as fuck.
>>46947124
Yeah, it's a shame they didn't live up to the concept art, but so was the case with a lot of minis from that batch due to deadlines and Mantic's inexperience as a company at the time.
It seems than they are learning from they errors at least, the centaurs look nice and the abyss/FoN look good.
>>46948045
I like how they are actually posable and have options now, and are hard plastic. The older rank and file aren't much above what you see in starter sets. One reason that I do like a lot of Mantic's designs is because they are typically truescale, with the exception of some figures like the Dwarves.
>>46948045
Yeah, I guess they have built up a list of go to connections and routines to get shit done.
>>46948152
Their old undead plastic kits are not too shabby, though. You get a lot of pieces with the skeleton sprue, the ghouls looks fine despite limited bits and the zombie sprue is pretty good for kitbashing.
>>46948254
Definitely. I can say that with the bulk of their stuff being Made in England hard plastic, they certainly have done better than Privateer Press with the overall quality of their models.
>>46948291
Still, a damm shame about the Basileans. I rather liked their concept. Mantic even knows that the Basilean plastic is inferior to what they wanted.
>>46948349
They learned the problems with Chinese manufacturing the hard ways. My recommendation for anyone who wants Basileans is to buy some bits for a few pieces and get Perry figures to kitbash.
>>46948349
Basileans could be improved a lot, being one of the poster boys of mantic.
>>46944686
My problem with the Empire of Dust is that overall is seems intent on beating you over the head about how Egyptian the army's aesthetic is in a generic manner.
I guess I prefer how the Tomb King's aesthetic seemed more realistic and not intent on pushing the Egyptian aesthetic into every single pore. A lot of the armor and such looks somewhat more befitting of a science fiction or space fantasy army, like the type of stuff you'd expect the Thousand Sons to look like.
Honestly, maybe it's I just don't like Mantic because I'm guessing some of what I said above you could apply to the Necrosphinx and that is one of my favorite Tomb King's models.
>>46948431
The Fireforge Men at Arms are otherwise nice substitutes.
>>46948699
Well, generic fantasy is what Mantic does. They want their armies to be accessible to as many people as possible.
>>46948933
I feel like there is a difference between generic and gaudy, the latter of which the Empire of Dust would fall under for me.
I have a feeling they could have gotten away with trying to emulate the Tomb King's closer without provoking any legal difficulties, of course I'm no expert.
Mantic really seems to do decent when they're doing their own thing and fall flat on their ass when they're obviously throwing out something that is supposed to be an analog to an army from Fantasy or 40k. Because, let's be honest, being not-GW is what they really are for the most part.
>>46949301
A lot of people seems to like gaudy looking fantasy. Just look at how popular World of Warcraft was while being increadibly tacky looking.
Also, Mantic was started by ex GW people because they wanted to make GW games on their own terms. It's only natural that you percieve them as not-GW.
>>46949301
The skeletons here >>46920937 might have potential if you just headswap them with regular skulls.
>>46949658
It's far worse with AoS currently. I really like Mantic when they go full truescale as opposed to their fat GW equivalents, but I don't like it when their stuff when the upper bodies are huge and cartoony. As someone who plays fantasy wargames, I really shouldn't expect anything to look realistic in the first place.
I like how Priestly endorsed KoW though. It is still the best succesor to Warhammer on the market.
>>46900765
Really generic/mediocre, truthfully. Most people just use its rules to play real Warhammer instead of dealing with Smegmar or one of the fan editions.
>>46949731
I can't believe that we live in a world were Mantic puts out better looking models than GW are because of how bad the visual design of AoS is.
>>46949852
The only thing GW had over the competence was they plastic stuff, than is pretty good wasn't that crazy priced. The rest of companies put better quality in design or execution but they don't tend to do plastic, but after Kingdom death minis, and the price of the AoS even this is starting to fade.
>>46949658
>A lot of people seems to like gaudy looking fantasy. Just look at how popular World of Warcraft was while being increadibly tacky looking.
I'd argue that at least with Warcraft Blizzard took the aesthetic and gradually did their own thing with it.
That aesthetics is seemingly most of what they took also helps since then there are no direct connections like you can draw between the Tomb Kings and the Empire of Dust.
>Also, Mantic was started by ex GW people because they wanted to make GW games on their own terms. It's only natural that you percieve them as not-GW.
Obviously not the creative types then. Priestly created Gates of Antares and from what I've seen it doesn't look much like 40k.
It really doesn't shine favorably on Mantic in my opinion when they take concepts from GW and drop the ball in terms of lore and aesthetics which are for the most part the draw of the products GW put out. It's especially bad when people know of those products or GW is rereleasing them since then Mantic stuff comes off as akin to a Chinese knock off.
>>46950138
Priestly is doing his own thing, but Alessio is writing the rules. I see the official figures as just one of many options that people can choose. If someone wants the GW models in the game, then they can go for it. Even Chinese knock offs are just recasts of GW models, not entirely seperate designs like the Mantic figures.
>>46950138
GW lore is a knock off of nearly all those english comic, fantasy novels from tolkien to Moorcock and pulpy things with a twist here and there. The good thing about it was the vibe and all the wealth of fluff it had, but apart of the Skavens and a few more things GW lore is pretty generic.
>>46950308
That is why I have always liked WHFB's personally. Instead of being incredibly wild and out there like Warmachine or Malifaux, it is an indepth "Standard" fantasy settin, with Elves and Dwarves like we are used to.
>>46950097
Kingdom Death is still very expensive to get into, though.
>>46950527
The minis are very high quality too, and if you compare them with AoS heroes not so expensive.
>>46950308
My favourite part of the setting was the Old World. Everything outside of that area didn't really interest me a whole lot. The Empire and the undead had some of my favourite fluff in the setting. I mostly liked the undead because unlike Chaos, Dark Elves and Skaven the weren't too overblown with their goals or conquest plans. Most vampires and Tomb Kings just minded their own business.
>>46950097
Eh, I think you underestimate what they have with the 40k and Fantasy setting and aesthetics, there is a lot of their competition which is either arguably isn't as strong in both of those areas or weak in one and strong in the other. Model quality and looks are a great strength too, people aren't going to pay money on or even show interest in something that looks like garbage or which they view as inferior to what they can get elsewhere.
>>46950211
The argument that "Well it doesn't matter if the models or lore are bad since you can always use something else." has always fell flat to me in terms of a defense of Mantic because you're essentially ceding that there isn't much of worth in their models or lore and that they'd honestly be better off just writing rules for other companies who'd take over in terms of lore, model design, etc.
>>46950308
GW's luck is that they took those things, stuck them together, and somehow made it work and were able from there to expand upon them.
Mantic isn't doing or at the least doesn't give the impression they're doing that. It comes off as if they like and know other people like 40k, Fantasy, Bloodbowl, etc, and are trying to pass off imitations that mostly pale in comparison to the originals.
Writing rules that were similar to but arguably better than GW's and producing rank fillers for Fantasy really seems like the only thing Mantic was truly good for.
>>46950684
What's the deal with KoD stuff anyways? I figured most of the models outside of the four or five random adventuring dudes you have in the base board game were just for painting and no real gameplay purpose. Granted, I know basically nothing about the game but stuff like the Thief and Mage don't have any purpose beyond looking pretty, do they?
>>46950691
I think Mantic is less into world building than GW was, considering that GW used to go more for the RPG stuff back in the day. Mantic as a company seems like they want to do just games.
It's not like padding out a setting with more content makes a setting automatically better.
>>46950992
I'm not really talking about padding, though personally I like the RPG approach and think it serves games well.
I'm talking about the aesthetics of an army and making what it's about and the units within it interesting.
>>46931342
Yes.
>>46952203
In thinkna lot of people don't care about that. They just want minis that looks the part.
>>46950211
The rules would be better if they told Alessio to fuck off. He's a moron who keeps trying to introduce random tables and new special rules for every unit.
Also last minute rewrites that break everything before things get sent to publishing.
>>46960755
He did the contrary to that in KoW at least, basic special rules for everyone, a few special rules for the army and kept it simple.
>>46960906
It might have something to do with Alessio being s huge fan of chess. A fantasy wargame kinda emulates chess with the focus on movement and engaging in melee. While sci-fi wargames on the other hand are more shooty and don't focus on melee a whole lot. So Alessio miht just have decided that trying to emulate chess in a sci-fi game doesn't work so he is trying different things.
I do remember that he was doing great with WHFB and not so great with 40k.
>>46960906
They achieved that in spite of him. His revisions for 2nd edition were over-intricate garbage and had to be fought down by a hastily-assembled rules committee at every turn.
You can take the man out of GW, but you can't take the GW out of the man.
>>46961019
I didn't know it, but I'm glad than they did that then.
>>46961019
So the rule committee does do something of value after all?
>>46949711
I like the helmets. A more mask-over-your face minis would be awesome imho.
>>46900765
It's garbage, just like the rules. There's a reason why no one played about or talked about until WHFB died.
What are the odds of them doing a new line of Basileans to replace the shit ones?
>>46961019
In fairness a lot of the feedback from the initial release was that it's too bland, all the armies feel the same, there's no weird special rules and customization options. Everyone wants a better-balanced game than WFB, but there's a balance to be struck there.
>>46968013
Maybe once they have filled out all the lists that needs minis.
>>46968194
The real problem is that not everyone wants the same and that you could possibly never please everyone. I mostly like KoW because it's fast and the rules are as clear as day.
>>46968194
The problem with Alessio is that he's an ideas guy. Good for a 1st edition and as a collaborator, terrible if you're trying to develop a 2nd edition (and don't want to tear up what you already have) and can't work with people beneath him on the totem pole.
Mantic let him have control and most of his proposed changes didn't even go through playtesting. 45 minutes of proofreading before being sent to the printers.
>>46969483
Didn't he also write a proposed edition of Warpath that was less than ideal?
>>46965971
As opposed to AoS or 8e? I think I will stick witha system that is actually playtested.
>>46965971
Really righ now for mass battles we have KoW or Historics, not many other games for fantasy big battles.
I am sorry to be the bum,but dies anyone have the pdf for 2nd edition rulebook?
>>46973112
Check the archive for the last KoW general, it should have one.
>>46960533
Then I really don't know what Mantic is trying to accomplish since there are obviously a bunch of other people out there making generic fantasy miniatures.
Honestly one of the strengths of having a focused aesthetic in a game where you're technically allowed to bring any kind of model, such as 40k or Fantasy, is that you usually want something that matches up if the lore and that means at least buying some kits from the creator of that lore.
>>46920937
>Put images into single pdf
>???
>Profit
>>46976189
WHFB has had a history of being generic and then switching to some kind of alternative aesthetic. At first the WHFB miniature line was just based on minis Citadel did for other settings and RPG's. Then for some reason they later did them more flamboyant over the top in a style that looked like something from 2000AD that had a lot of inspiration from the Punk music genre. Then Punk eventually became lame in the late 90's, so they shifted their aesthetics to a more down to earth dark fantasy look that they stuck with for roughly a decade. Then in the mid 2000's they decided to go back to the flamboyant look from the 90's, but with less Punk aesthetics, presumingly for brand recognition reasons. Then just last year Age of Sigmar happened and they decided to go full style over substance with their aesthetics.
So GW has a history of releasing miniatures that could totally clash with your older miniatures and ditching focused aesthetics entierly. Mantic has also shifted aesthetics with miniatures they have been releasing; like the Forgefather Steel Warriors they are going to release doesn't exactly match the old Steel Warriors when put next to eachother and the Deadzone Marauders looks a whole lot more refined then their Warpath miniatures.
The only manufacturers of miniatures that I would suggest is always gonna be consistent with focused aesthetics is the companies that make historical miniatures because their demographic is not all that much into historical revision.
>>46976189
Is there something wrong with producing generic fantasy minis for their generic fantasy game?Generic visual design in itself doesn't have to be a bad thing. Sometimes I just want a zombie that is a zombie or an orc that is just an orc without a twist.
>>46974120
Thank you
>>46974120
what should I be searching for?
>>46980292
Kings of War General of course
>>46976189
To sell minis to people than doesn't like the Wh aesthethics? The cupo of skulls is pretty tiring.
>>46980362
Nothing there.
This thread isn't called that either.
>>46981017
Have you tried kowg at all?
>>46981377
Nothing there with kow even
>>46982375
Are you using an actual archive or the shitty inbuilt one that only lasts a week?
>>46917136
Isn't that the default setting for all setings?
>>46982654
I'm not a pro 4channer. Fuckin sue me.
>>46984700
Since almost anyone is a potential necromancer the suggestion is genocide of all races that can use magic.
>>46900765
An Elf Wizard who wanted to get his dick wet in royal pussy did everything wrong.
So prettygood
>>46988900
I'm okay with this.
