![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6u71Nus.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
does anybody know what happened to mantic's warpath?
its no longer for sale on their site.
>>46389164
IIRC there's a kickstarter coming up.
I want to like Mantic, but I'd rather they built up a solid base of a couple of games rather than their current ADHD approach of betas and new kickstarters all the time. Like Dreadball, it's not gained much traction and yet there's about 3 "seasons" (i.e. buy everything or you're out of the loop) and a PRISON EXTREME RULES version.
Also, the material they use on smaller sets, the "restic", is fucking awful. Really hard to trim mouldlines all over faces/torsos etc. Hard plastics aren't so bad. Prices aren't exactly as enticing as they used to be either, unless you get a bundle deal.
>>46389202
y i feel like they are going to fast to, kings of war was fine, nice and slow going. then suddenly after starting warpath they fucking rushed everything, instead of dedicating much attention to warpath.
They are hard launching Warpath in September. Mantic had a big kickstarter and made a load of new plastic kits. Astarians, Plague, Enforcers, Corps, Forgefathers, Veermyn, Merc Marauders will be there at launch.
It is launching with two rulesets: Warpath is for multibased teams that group into units and plays like Epic.
Firefight uses the same basic framework but is individual models so more like 40k.
The two rulesets are in public testing and you can read them on Mantic's forums. Warpath is much further along. The mechanics are solid. It just needs tweaking, list balancing, and a force org chart.
Firefight is in an earlier stage of development. Some mechanics are overpowered and will be changed (eg shields) and overall it needs much more tweaking balancing than Warpath (some armies current lack good commanders, some upgrades are OP, some armies need big points changes and units tend to die before suppression is an issue). But it is much earlier in the dev cycle.
Basically: Warpath is a multibased combined arms wargame. Epic 40k in 28mm. Firefight is / will be 40k but faster, simple, and more lethal.
>>46389270
epic in 28mm scale seems like an utter horrible idea.
Mantic have ditched the plastic-resin stuff and switched to hard plastic, metal, and that DUST Studios / Wrath of Kings plastic. After finally assembling my Deadzone stuff good riddance - except it was good for light vehicles. The Iron Ancestor was fucking awesome.
As for Warpath, new Deadzone end of the month is going to bring out loadsa new plastics, then new Warpath in Sept/Oct. It's launching with a big battle book, a 40k-but-good book, and some kind of campaign or setting guide(?)
>>46389296
AFAIK it's more like 40k but with rules actually designed for such a model count.
>>46389296
It plays really well.
Movement and suppression matter a lot, officers can spend command dice to create special effects, tank and flier groups make sense... I really like it.
Everyone else I know wants Firefight though.
>>46389349
well i mean then its not really epic right? its just different rules for slightly larger battles, no 200+ figures on each side
Latest mass battle rules are here. A new update is current overdue and should turn up any day now.
http://vb.manticforum.com/forum/warpath/warpath-beta-playtesting/274044-read-this-first-%C2%96-playtest-summary-updates-and-change-log-latest-v1-0-1-14th-march
>>46389360
Honestly I never played Epic, I heard other people who have say it played like Epic.
Firefight is very 40k but I'm not sure what to compare Warpath to. It is sort of 40k / KoW, but units are built from 5-man 'teams' instead of individuals, and you kill them by concentrating damage on them or failing that, by piling on suppression so they become ineffective or run away.
>>46389412
i understand that, but how many figures are in each battle? even small epic battles have like 50 infantry models on each side. i dont think this can happen ever with 28 mm scale, because the bases are way to big.
>>46389437
A 'typical' Warpath game is 50-100 models on a 6x4 board. Model count varies by army.
Enforcers, Forgefathers and Asterians are on the lower end of this (50-60)
Plague and Veermyn are on the upper end (70-100).
![DSCN2386_edited_zps6b1b2903[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9BssDLR.jpg "DSCN2386_edited_zps6b1b2903[1].jpg")
>>46389534
this is a typical medium sized army of epic 40k
>>46389202
The newest PVC figures are far better than the last couple of generations of them. Only going to be Dreadball suffering with the old shit soon.
Having cleaned up some multipart plastics this week and spending an age cleaning each individual part, I'm not convinced that restic stuff is really that much worse.
>>46389557
That's the best size for big armies, specially sci fi.
>>46389164
Well the deadline for the Warpath pledge manager just ended, so all the new Warpath should be released in a few months.
>>46391190
>that dog
Awesome, I haven't seen zords in a long time!
I guess people haven't seen the new models then? Here's the new Forge Father basic infantry, the second ed Steel Warriors (hard plastic).
>>46391531
>>46391541
New human troopers will be doable as two units: rangers or marines. I reckon that mixing the high tech ranger parts and the normal marine bits would make some nice veterans too.
>>46391573
>>46391612
>>46391629
The heavy weapon teams will be separate.
>>46391531
>>46391663
Should have some questions of those Steel Warriors in the next week or so. Having had a look through the new Deadzone rules, a sprue of 5 of them makes a 100 point starting force, so I've accidentally got yet another Deadzone faction to paint.
>>46391190
WAIT THE KICKSTARTER IS OVER ALREADY?
hat doesnt explain why i cant buy anything at all on their site, did they literally squat all previous models?
Mantic Warpath and Deadzone thread? Mantic Warpath and Deadzone thread.
I've been getting pretty stoked about deadzone since I got the digital book. I really wish I had backed more money into the KS rather than just the rulebook. So I bought the Forgefather starter from ebay for cheap, and have been working on that. I am excited to get this kit >>46391663 in may.
These guys here are my forge guard, a fun kit. Mantic kits are getting better and better. Of course I also collect dwarfs in warhammer so I couldn't help but to embellish these kits with some bits.
>>46394068
The kit came with 4 brokkrs (one with magma rifle) and an engineer. I decided to change things up. So the guy in the front is the brokkr chief w/ forge hammer, and then 3 regular brokkrs, and the engineer w/ hailstorm rifle in the back.
One thing I love about this new edition are all the weapon options, which allows for some converting. These guys are the relic hunters. Grizzled old forge fathers on a constant archaeological hunt.
>>46394128
And this is my forge guard huscarl. I had an extra stormcast eternal cape and love the accent it adds to this model.
I also plan on getting the dreadball iron ancestor and making it into the thor pattern iron ancestor.
>>46391531
Iceskating is a bad pose for models at the best of times, but it's especially odd looking on short, heavy dudes.
>>46389202
>their current ADHD approach of betas and new kickstarters all the time
You have to give them some credit though on how they're willing to drastically change them though. They're not one of the "major" product lines tied down with a rabid fanbase. Deadzone for example just didn't work and they were quick to straight up axe ideas, same with Kings of War, and Dwarf Kings Hold was axed before being transformed into a different game entirely.
It's not like their efforts aren't productive or not going anywhere, especially in comparison to recent efforts from companies like GW
>>46394533
Pretty much this.
They're an R&D lab that's hard working.
>>46394533
Maybe, but it makes me pretty fucking cautious about backing any of their kickstarters when they might just go "lol, this doesn't work" and abandon the game, or transform it into something very different to what I backed.
>>46394725
>"lol, this doesn't work" and abandon the game
They haven't abandoned anything that I'm aware of, other than 1st edition rulesets.
Deadzone underwent major revamping for rules, the worst you "lost" was game mechanic tokens kind of shit.
Dwarf Kings Hold stuff is usable for Dungeon Saga, the game it became (although I think DKH was an interesting idea on it's own), and this is after three (?) expansions that were made for DKH so it's not like it had nothing.
Kings of War... well it eventually got the biggest revamp of anything they put out after several years of being "dead" and "abandoned"
Dreadball is their most actively supported product IMO
Warpath has been all rules so far, they haven't squatted anything.
For sure I think the most "abandoned" is Mars Attacks, but we might see something after the Deadzone revamps since it's based on Deadzone.
>>46394725
Mantic are pretty much an embodiment of the Non-GW wargaming world.
Stuff shows up and sinks back down again, sometimes it stick around, sometimes it doesn't. You just take and pick what you like and if the company stops supporting the game, you either game on or you move on.
I really hope they push back their launch. Its really a pain now, since there's been so many problems with people getting on their forums to give feedback, and there's a lot of glaring holes right now.
Astarians are broken in Firefight, suppression is out of whack in Mass Battle, and right now MSU is the hands down way to go in either game, save for the Astarian issue. In firefight, Veer-myn can't win against Astarians, period.
>>46394128
Those look so much better than the standard Brokkr. I wish they would stop with the orange jumpsuit official paint scheme, it makes them look like in-mates, not space slayers.
>>46394813
why do they support dreadball so heavily?
>tfw when you could have kickstarted it but thought it wouldnt catch on
>tfw you missed out on all kickstarter exclusives and cheap minis
>tfw i dont want to buy into it now knowing how much money i potentially wasted
>>46395420
They support it so much because it's probably their most played game besides KoW
>>46395463
i am sad mantic is so small in the Netherlands, nobody i know even knows dreadball exists.
>>46395482
That's pretty much par for the course. Mantic isn't big anywhere.
I'm giving the new Deadzone rules a bash on Sunday funnily enough.
Really looking forward to Warpath, the new Forge Father aesthetic is really my jam so I hope the games are good.
>>46396973
so is the kickstarter over or are they holding a new one soon?
>>46393418
The old stuff is being repackaged.
Eg, old Forge fathers plastics are now militia, old Marauders are primitive Auxilleries.
>>46397046
Long over for both Deadzone and Warpath.
The good news is that both are being released this year so all you'll miss out on from the KS is stuff being cheaper.
>>46397046
Kickstarter is long over. Some of the new kits are actually Deadzone kits and will be out in May, the rest (like vehicles) will be out October
>>46397325
Yeah after reading the rules PDF it's safe to say that the Deadzone starter will be essentially the same as Operation Heracles but with different rules and smaller since the intro scenario is Forge Fathers Vs Enforcers.
Kind of makes sense I suppose since if you assume I'm right then that'd mean if you buy Deadzone in May or whenever that's out and then buy Operation Heracles in September you'll have 2 decently sized armies for Deadzone, Firefight, and Warpath.
You're just bumped if you don't want Not-Space Marines or Not-Squats.
>>46397505
That's the case with any wargame though.
Not sure two "power armour" forces is the best choice for a starter box though. Really had assumed it would be Veer Myn as antagonists for the new Deadzone at least. No plastic leader options for Veer Myn though, and I guess that's why.
>>46398845
I think they should've just stuck with the Plague. You're right about the 2 power armor factions in one set isn't the best choice, and Veer-myn and Astarians have such weird extras to their rules. Plague would've made a good foil to the Enforcers' playstyle without overloading new players.
Then again, there's also the argument that having similar forces would be easier for new players to learn the game. Foil forces are good for showcasing what's in the game, but having a big difference in how each side plays can distract from learning the game.
>>46394202
that cape.....i want it !
iam new to mantic cuz my local shop has 25 % off off all of there models and as a dwarf player i love space , normal and chaos mantic dwarfs
>>46395006
yeah I plan on painting them in drab worker colors because these guys are the relic hunters and archaeologists.
>>46399348
It's the cape of the Lord-Celestant on Dracoth from the AoS starter kit. I bought it mainly for the dracoth so I could do a cool conversion for a nurgle chaos lord for one of my AoS armies. So I have this rider leftover. The cape is perfect on that Huscarl. I'm planning on painting a big runic house-symbol or something to denote his station.
what are the factions for warpath? I see humans, spess orcs, spess dorfs and spess rats, what else is planned?
>>46399753
spess elfs, and there are 2 flavors of humans: the enforcers (not spess-muhreens) and corporation (not-guard). Then there's the rebs (star wars rebel alliance) which is a mix of many races. Then there's the plague (think dead space), then there's a bug race i think called the zzor, which is more like the corporation poking a hornet's nest.
>>46391424
Zoids?
>>46399881
Zoids.
>>46399834
Just throwing out there, most of the space elves are robots controlled by the elves. The only actual elves in the force are the Overseer and the Kalyshi, which are kind of like Eldar Exodites.
>>46400168
Of course. At first glance this game appears to just be a 40k rip-off on everything, but upon closer inspection all the races and factions have something unique that makes them different, which I actually kinda dig.
First off, the whole setting is not grimdark. Technology still advances and is very high tech, but the setting does have a darkness from the total corporate control enacted on the colonies. Propaganda shows a galaxy of enlightenment and peace, where the corporations usher in humanities' greatest era. When in reality war is all around and the galaxy is full of dangers. (reminds me of the Alliance from firefly/serenity)
Enforcers - they are the superhuman elite soldiers, but they work directly for a greedy organization and are grown completely from test tubes. They follow orders by the corporate heads without question, even if it means killing innocent people. All their dudes (except the pathfinder scouts) are equipped with advanced armour and jump packs.
Forgefathers - An alien race that are essentially fantasy dwarfs. They are not metahumans and have an empire that predates even the earliest human civilizations. They have the most advanced weapons and armor in the galaxy (armour piercing errywhere), and their starships are second to none. They are incredible miners and resource gatherers, being able to strip mine entire worlds down to their molecular components. They pretty much play like you would assume any dwarf army would play.
cont.
>>46401245
The Plague - Peppered across the galaxy are these strange alien artifacts that infect people with a mutating virus. Those who come in contact with the artifacts initially become these monstrous giant exoskeleton stage 1 creatures that act as the generals of others infected. Then through clawing or touch those can infect others, and those become stage 2s, which are not as big, but still very beastly fighters. When those infect others, they become stage 3s, which actually retain their intelligence to use guns, fly ships, etc. But are still 'converted' over to fight for the plague as a whole. Their goal seems to only be 'spread the plague'. They are a swarm army.
Veermyn - Nobody knows their intentions or goals, but they are pretty much like any nest of rats scavenging and spreading. They have castes like the skaven and are lead by brood mothers. They are also a swarm army.
Asterians - Ancient and wise, believing in a balance in all things (like a yin/yang philosophy), looking down on those who don't believe in such. Pretty much space elves. More like elves then Eldar though. They have the most advanced robotics and stealth tech. Their main troops are constructs of bio material and machine which are remotely controlled by users on the ships a la Avatar. Few asterians physically go to the battlefields. They fought and contained the plague millenia ago, and are facepalming big time as the greedy corporations went around to all the artefacts going "Oooh, what does this button do?"
cont.
>>46401272
Marauders - Once taken and trained and uplifted by the corporations to be their elite guard force (before the Enforcers program), but they have an intelligence that belies their appearance and fought for their freedom from the corporation. They are the galaxy's mercenary force, sometimes hired by the corporation themselves. They are good tacticians and smart on the battlefield, but still very ferocious in combat. They are made up of diffeent races: orcs(generally the leaders), goblins(small technicians and snipers), and hulks(big and stupid ogres), and a few others. Not necessarily a horde race.
Rebs - Not everyone is happy with corporation rule on everything, and some of those actually do something about it. Particularly alien races assimilated into the corporation are treated as second class citizens and even sentient ones are deemed 'indiginous wildlife' when their homeworld is discovered to contain valuable resources. This is the Star Wars Rebel Alliance fighting back. A jack-of-all-masters-of-none army because of the wide variety of equipment and individuals fighting for them.
These are the races at least for Deadzone, and Warpath will continue to expand on it when that gets a release later this year, but the stuff I listed above should be available in May.
>>46401245
so this setting takes the Imperium stand in and plays them as the villains they really are
>>46401393
Pretty much. The corporations are not the goodguys. They have good people in their ranks, but they are not a noble equal rights organization. Again they remind me more of the Alliance from firefly rather than the imperium of man, as there appears to be no dominant religious factor in all of it.
>>46401461
It feels more like the Alliance, because its more realistic. The Imperium is so over the top, it doesn't feel possible, but the Alliance and Corporation do.
>>46401298
Rebs haven't been put into Warpath yet, and weren't really covered in the Kickstarter, so I think they are up in the air.
>>46401272
I'd start a Veer-myn army, but they are in a weird spot right now, and I'd only start collecting stuff to build one once things are in a better spot. Most of the other lists are in a place where things will change, but the general core is there, where Veer-myn have this weird MSU thing going, which I'm not sure will survive the beta.
I tend to grab Proxies mostly to add visual flavor to my friendly 40k matches, but I also like to look at other rules sets, I'll keep my eyes open
Mantic could corner a huge market if they press some not-egyptian undead and classical Knights harder
>>46401689
So you think rebs might be a deadzone only thing? This kinda makes sense, actually. They are a ragtag hodgepodge of rebels, and not a grand united war front.
One of the things I like about deadzone is the setting for the games. The corporation will put a containment protocol on a planet, usually because of a plague outbreak or veermyn infestation. The corp will remove any sign of that planet from the galactic nav system, and delete all public documentation about it, dooming all the citizens to their fate. Then they send some enforcers there to make sure nobody enters or leaves the world. When a ship FTL drops in orbit, they shoot it down. When a ship tries to leave, they shoot it down.
However many corporations have big investments on those worlds they want retrieved, so the enforcers have their secondary objectives to recover those. So all the races usually have their own goals when it comes to a deadzone.
The forgefathers are scouting it out for their next mining world.
The Asterians are trying to contain the plague because they dont trust humans
Marauders are often hired by a corporation to recover something on those worlds.
Rebs, of course, are desperate to find incriminating evidence of the corporations atrocities to use in order to gain more followers, and to rescue any natives.
>>46402002
Not sure. Mantic may be just being realistic for now and not over-expanding. Better to get the big ones out for now, then worry about additions later.
>>46402002
probably just not happening now because making a whole bunch of random aliens in cheep plastic is a huge pain in the ass.
So, anyone that's read through the Warpath rules, what are your thoughts on the way Veer-myn can activate multiple units at once, at the price of being unable to take more than the minimum in most of their swarm-y units?
>>46401245
>First off, the whole setting is not grimdark. Technology still advances and is very high tech, but the setting does have a darkness from the total corporate control enacted on the colonies. Propaganda shows a galaxy of enlightenment and peace, where the corporations usher in humanities' greatest era. When in reality war is all around and the galaxy is full of dangers. (reminds me of the Alliance from firefly/serenity)
Makes me think of classic cyberpunk but farther in the future.
>>46404164
Yeah there are some cyberpunk elements in the story, just not really reflected on the tabletop, which is a shame, because I think infinity-type hacking could be cool in deadzone.
>>46404330
I can see it being hard to keep hacking in line with the fluff and balanced.
>>46407525
That's really a problem with hacking in general. Doesn't Infinity have the problem where hackers are mandatory in certain scenarios?
>>46402002
I think that bit of fluff just sold me on Deadzone even though I was holding out for Warpath because I'm more interested in the larger scale.
>>46401298
>>Marauders
I enjoy playing Marauders in Deadzone, and one of the things that surprises new players is that while the orcs are good in close combat, their real trademark is great unit leaders. They have the most point-efficient high-Command leaders in the game. The Marauder Captain's command ability is actually called "Tactical Genius."
When you think of orcs in space, of course the first thing that should come to your mind is a highly competent command structure.
>>46408327
Good news, you can use the minis for both.
>>46408373
Yeah I rather like it. It makes sense for a mercenary faction at least. I've been reading the Containtment Protocols set of short stories, and in it a deal is being struck between a corporation and marauders. It's clear people generally underestimate them, and they even purposefully keep up the guise that they are a bunch of brutish numbskulls.
So reading through the Deadzone 2.0 book, took a few re-reads of the first few pages to figure out what dice they were referring to, since its written around the idea that you have the starter set. Still has DZ's version of true LoS, which I'm ok with, since its clear cut and not a hindrance. Overall, looking like a fun game, I may actually invest in it, if I can find people to play.
>>46409647
Yeah the game uses d8s for pretty much everything. The command dice are going to be unique, but people use standard d6's and lay them out on a reference chart for what each face means.
The TLoS is the simplest way of handling things in the game because with shooting, it assumes the target is in cover. The only cover modifiers given at all is whether a target is completely out in the open (+2 dice bonus to the shot), or completely out of view (cant take the shot). It's nice because you can generally assume you are always benefiting from the cover you are in, except for a few cases.
>>46408373
I like how the Tactical Genius ability is you steal one of your opponent's command dice and use it for yourself.
>>46409680
I'm against true LoS, but with how binary the rules are in DZ, I can deal with it.
>>46409865
Eh, to each his own. I like it, and the fact that Firefight doesnt use it is one of the reasons Im really not interested in that game.
>>46401298
You're forgetting that human Rebs soldiers all look like Browncoats from Firefly.
Plague 3rd Gen are basically Reavers too. New fluff has them adding spikes and chained up corpses to their vehicles. Their plastic vehicle is a Reaver drop ship.
>>46409959
Yeah I can see the parallels, and I'm ok with it.
>>46408373
I like that he's wearing one of those tacticool military scarf.
>>46401272
I would love to get a Plague force going when Warpath finally drops, I absolutely love the idea behind them.
>>46412164
>>46408373
Here's a big version.
>>46402002
>>46401689
After Warpath launches Mantic are going back to both the Marauders and Rebs. My bet would be a Rebs / Marauders / Z'zor expansion book.
Marauders will be getting a new army list and new plastics. Mantic doesn't seem too sure about new Rebs stuff yet - it'll be either plastic browncoats or some kind of all purpose mixed alien species sprue. Figuring out how to do mass battle Rebs is why they weren't in the Kickstarter.
One bit of fluff I liked about the Rebs is that different groups have different ideologies. Some are like the Rebel Alliance, others are human supremacists who hate the Corporations.
So you can make a canon /pol/ army when that Rebs expansion drops.
>>46401461
Are there any specific examples of good people aligned with the corporations, or is it just a blanket "they aren't all bad" statement to let people fluff their armies that way if they want?
>>46413162
>So you can make a canon /pol/ army when that Rebs expansion drops.
This is actually canon, because it says there are some reb groups who have a hate for anythign non-human. One of the reasons they hate the corp is because it uses aliens in its structure.
>>46414470
I've been reading the Containment Protocols series of short stories, and most of the regular humans in the corporation are just trying to make a living. This is the main source of motivation for the rebs, knowing the real bad guys are those who know the truth of everything and keep it hidden from the general public. If the general public would see the corps exploitation of a sentient race's homeworld, or the containment protocol enacted on a populated world, then public opinion on the 'benevolent' corporations would change.
>>46401833
>huge market
>for two of the worst-selling WHFB factions, squatted for lack of sales
>corner
>the market on historical knight minis
>when most Brets players bought third party all along
>>46416540
Mantic is a company operating with a skeleton crew. They don't even have in house artists or writers.
GW is a company with it's own brick and mortar stores around the world.
For Mantic getting just a piece of GW's cake would be huge.
And as for 3rd party Brets there is almost nothing out there that has the same flair. 13th century knights with helmet crests are almost exclusively Teutonic Order. Which don't exactly fit the style.
>>46416540
Some nice Egyptian undead would be nice. I think Crocodile games is the only ones with a large collection now.
>>46418758
Reaper has a range of egyptian stuff too, but it's mostly just odds and ends.
Best bet to find useable stuff outside of that would probably be looking for alternative Blood Bowl teams.
Foundry has a historical line of Egyptians, but they are pretty unremarkable. Mostly good for conversion fodder for zombies or mummies, but TK don't really have zombies so...
>>46412436
Kinda wish the models were a little more necromorphish.
>>46421979
I like them how they are honestly. Beastly and alien without being too much horror film. Of course you can still convert them I think, with some green stuff and tyranid bits I think it could be done
>>46422772
I just love gooey body horror stuff.
>>46422924
I do too, but often it comes out cheesy or dumb, especially in miniature form, and extremely difficult unless you are really really good at painting. Can you imagine what an amateur painter would do to a kingdom death monster figure? With the plague an amateur painter still gets the idea across. They look monstrous without overdoing it.
But having this conversation does make me want to do the greenstuff and tyranid bits on plague to try horroring then up a bit :)
>>46423415
Yeah, if it wasn't for the temptation to use the genestealer cult they came out with recently for Plague, I'd do the same.
That and the draw of the Veer-myn.
>>46401833
They have lines for at least three factions on the way before they can get to those, even if they think it's worth doing.
>no new plastic orx
>>46428454
See
>>46413162
> My bet would be a Rebs / Marauders / Z'zor expansion book.
After the current warpath project
What do we know about the Z'zor anyway? I've only seen them mentioned in Dreadball.
>>46430932
The only fluff I know about is that they live far away in an unexplored part of the galaxy, are a huge threat to the GCPS, and everything about them disgusts humans.
Going by Ludwig in Dreadball, I'd expect communist space thri-keen / pseudo-Arachnids.
>>46431486
Don't think that's right Anon. They're a hive race, though not galactic spanning like Cancerco's Tyranids. Not really organised into an empire either, but worlds they occupy are just too costly to attack and still leave realisable assets, so the GCPS's corporations just don't stir them up and look elsewhere on the whole, except perhaps if there's something they -really- want. The corps also fall back to dodgy contracts and legalese to fuck up races they can't easily best militarily (as they did with the Teratons), but the Zzor don't seem the sorts to sign contracts, let alone honour them.
